Senate Democrats were right to deny the nomination of Sam Fox (in photo) to a foreign ambassador post, in light of his $50,000 donation to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that ran the ugly smear campaign against Sen. John Kerry in 2004.
The White House withdrew the nomination Wednesday after it became clear Fox didn’t have the votes on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on which Kerry serves.
The Swift Boat episode was a scurrilous low point in American politics, and anyone who helped finance it isn’t fit to hold a diplomatic post.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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144 Comments
While I don’t agree with Randy’s ultimate sentence above, I suggest this is an example of “what goes around comes around”. Or, more business as usual in DC. This isn’t the first time something resembling this has happened, and won’t be the last. As GMC has said in the past, “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.
What? You say the #$%#$! Congress is politicizing presidential appointments? Why this is an outrage! Next thing you know they will be demanding resignations for purely political reasons.
This is just another piece of evidence that the ruling parties could care less about actually running the country. The nominee is a political opponent and therefore the controlling members of the committee voted against him. A vote based (from news reports) on support for a group they disagreed with.
Yet another reason to boot the professional politicians out of D.C. You need to come up with real reasons to vote against a nominee.
Good riddance to bad rubbish!
I agree with your sentiment ProudMan. Politicians are all about Politics, on both sides. Rather than doing their jobs they focus on politicing for their parties. Maybe it is time to reconsider the usefullness of having to powerful political parties…
HT I am sure you are leading the movement to replace Diane Feinstein. After all for 6 years she set on the committe in charge of awarding defense contracts and her husbands two companies have been the recepient of billion of dollars in military dollars. And no his company isn’t Halliburton. Corruption on the demo side – say it isn’t so HT.
Maybe we need to go back to the time when politics wasn’t a full time job. You put in your crops and while they were growing, went to Washington to take care of the business of the government. Then you went back home and harvested the crops.
A much simpler time for sure than we have now, but probably not one as corrupt as we have now.
Perhaps you are correct about Feinstein ksgrm, I don’t know. However, right now the legacy of the past 6 years is a higher priority. It’s called triage.
There is lots of corruption on both sides of the aisle; sadly that has always been the case. And it inevitably gets worse with entrenched members and one-party rule. By either party.
Hard Truth I couldn’t agree with you more. Career politicians are a fertile planting ground for corruption. I think that the logical in both parties will agree on that.
Limiting anything to the last 6 years ago though is a head in the sand position. That simply means that the party with the keys gets to pick the battles. Never a win situation for the American people
Yeah, Feinstein is in it big time, she just resigned from the Military Construction Appropriations committe due to her failings on getting military funding to appropriate hospitals etc.
http://www.metroactive.com/metro/03.21.07/dianne-feinstein-resigns-0712.html
It was exposed big time here:
http://www.metroactive.com/feinstein/
Her hubby is a big time contractor so they were getting no-bid contracts – (think Halliburton here) but it wont be mentioned among polite MSM reporters.
Lots going on but again it wont be covered. No mention in NYT or anywhere else.
I wrote a note to Calame and the NYT, ask him where I could find any links to this in the paper…no response yet.
http://www.metroactive.com/metro/03.21.07/dianne-feinstein-resigns-0712.html
This link will tell most of the story. Again no mention in the mainstream media.
She should be investigated. Then let the chips fall where they may.
“Yet another reason to boot the professional politicians out of D.C.”
And replace them with amateur politicians? We already did that with the presidency, and look where we are now!
Spot on, HT. Let the investigation begin.
So Randy doesn’t think that someone that contributes, and by extension, associates with the likes of the Swift Boat Veterans should be in a politically appointed position? Okay, then all those who take money from the likes of Moveon.ORG and George Soros or DailyKOS should be banned from office. I have never seen the Swift Boats be as hateful as any of those orgs. Of course, Soros is not an orgs, but a fanatic. I guess only conservative fanatics (if you could call Swift Boat Veterans fanatics) are worthy of shame
The lowest point in the 2004 Presidential campaign? Nominating the likes of John Kerry for President.
littlejohn, to be correct in your comparison, George Soros should not be nominated to become Ambassador to because of his contributions.
Soros as an ambassador … SHUDDER!
I ‘might’ be able to see using him for some special missions; I seem to recall him having some useful connections. But not much beyond that.
Vaughn Tolle,
I stand corrected, my comparison was just a bit off. Yours would be the most specific and correct comparison. Anyone who gave money to those orgs (including Soros) should not be nominated to become Ambassador. The sad truth is that there is very little governing, and way too much politicizing, going on any more. The poiticizing as always gone on, just examine some of the earlier newspapers of the country. What has been left behind is the governing. (sigh)
RSWhy not try and prove that something the Swift Boat Veterans said was NOT true?Is that too hard for you?
There are many questions about Kerry’s service in Vietnam, and about his DD-214 when he came home.
Apparently, his discharge papers had been altered. Both President Carter and President Clinton might have had something to do with that.
Nothing Kerry did is unforgivable, but the American people deserved to hear the truth from Kerry. And other veterans deserved an apology, much like they got from Jane Fonda.This is something John Kerry rarely does: trust us with the truth. I think Kerry is more of a snob than a liar. He doesnt think we will understand the truth so he never tells us the truth.
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/jodhn.htm
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14743—–”One of Kerry’s strongest critics is a former prisoner of war in Hanoi. He tells of having to listen to Kerry’s anti-war rants over loudspeakers in his cell. The POW, who appears on the second television ad from Swift Boat Veterans For The Truth, packs a very powerful message. Vietnam vets, no matter what their personal politics, won’t take kindly to Kerry’s people trying to “smear” such a heroic American. So the “war room gang” must proceed very carefully.
When Kerry launched his political career as a shaggy- haired hippie with a lantern jaw and testified before Congress that American forces in Vietnam raped women, killed children, cut off ears and “ravaged the countryside” like the “hordes of Genghis Khan,” he earned the enmity of millions of good and decent Americans who never committed war crimes the deceitful Kerry attributed to them.
Now that he is campaigning as a “war hero” and downplaying his “protester” past and meetings in Paris with the Communist North Vietnamese, Kerry must count on the public not knowing about his checkered career. It’s a delicate balancing act, and with “talk radio” and the Internet to counteract the “establishment media’s pro-Kerry propaganda,” everything rides on Kerry being able to “con” the voters with the false image he projects. ”
http://www.militarycorruption.com/kerry3.htm—–http://www.stanford.edu/group/wais/ztopics/week100804/kerrymilitaryrecord5factsnavy.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40149—-How many articles has the Eagle printed, how many editorials, concerning Dan Rather and the bogus National Guard papers?If Rather came to town to speak, all the libs at the Eagle would get front row seats and slobber in excitement over getting to see one of their Icons, even if Rather did disgrace himself by getting caught in the act!
The Swift Boat Veterans have very valid complaints about John Kerry, the college boy that brought a movie camera with him to Vietnam because he wanted to use his service to help his planned political career.Kerry used his military service when it suited him.Kerry used his left wing, anti-war activism when it suited him.Kerry was for the war before he was against it.Then he was for it again?
“The Swift Boat episode was a scurrilous low point in American politics,…”
I know the Libs call the Swift Boaters liars, but it never has been clear to me if they were really lieing or if the message was too true. I suspect they were telling the truth. There were an awful lot of them.
The facts are: KERRY NEVER RELEASED ALL OF HIS MILITARY RECORDS!To the best of my knowledge, Kerry is the first and only candidate for President who has refused to sign the release form that would have given the media, and the public, access to his entire military file.Kerry WAS still in the Navy Reserves when he got involved in anti-war protests.That COULD have caused a blemish on his service record, or Less than Honorable Discharge.President Carter came up with an Amnesty Program that Kerry probably used to clean up his record, either under Carter or President Clinton.We dont know.We dont know because Kerry does not trust us with the truth.Kerry could have put all of this to rest by releasing his records.JOHN KERRY STILL REFUSES TO RELEASE HIS ENTIRE MILITARY SERVICE FILE!
Econ101,
FYI: your caps lock is stuck.
Also, after the election Kerry released his records:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/
“On May 20,[2005] Kerry signed a document called Standard Form 180, authorizing the Navy to send an ”undeleted” copy of his ”complete military service record and medical record” to the Globe. Asked why he delayed signing the form for so long, Kerry said in a written response: ”The call for me to sign a 180 form came from the same partisan operatives who were lying about my record on a daily basis on the Web and in the right-wing media. Even though the media was discrediting them, they continued to lie. I felt strongly that we shouldn’t kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out.”
“I felt strongly that we shouldn’t kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out.”"
Anybody believe it? HA!
John Kerry’s comments make no sense, at least to me.
–”I felt strongly that we shouldn’t kowtow to them and their attempts to drag their lies out.”—-If the whole report was released, and countered the swift boats claims, how could releasing them drag their lies out?
Pathetic Republicans – still trying to smear John Kerry’s war record. Really, I can understand why – can’t defend the record of their true religion, the Republican Party, so they have to call a man who served in Vietnam a coward and a liar simply because he doesn’t share their religion. And comparing Moveon.org to the SwiftBoaters? Are you fcuking kidding me?
The Swiftboat attacks are, by far, the dirtiest politics I have ever seen. NOTHING EVEN COMES CLOSE. We can now see the right-wing for what they truly are – amoral fascist swine who will do and say anything to slander opponents and win elections. Fascists are truly the lowest of the low, the equal of terrorists in my book. ‘People’ like Econ101 belong in Guantanamo, as they are greater dangers to the freedom of this nation than terrorists could ever dream of being.
Dear Randy,
We need to do lunch! Low point in American politics?
Most of the political donations I made in 2004 went to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Since the Communist John Kerry isn’t the Commander-in-Chief I consider it money well spent!
John Kerry’s actions in association with his fellow travelers in the VVAW were responsible for thousands of American lives and at least a year extension of the war.
Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”
None of these charges were ever proven true. In the Viet Nam war (and in this one) our military men and women lost there lives trying to save innocent civilian lives. The true lowest point in American politics was when the democrat party nominated a lying, war protester for the highest office in the land.
Nope Randy, when you bad mouth the many veterans that participated truthfully and honorably in the 2004 presidential election process you are defaming better men than you!
Prove one lie Randy, or shut up!
Hank
Oh, and littlejohn, please, please do everyone a favor and off yourself, stat. Uneducated troll that you are.
Those Facists you named are Vietnam Veterans as well and they were there at the same time Kerry was.
Must admit Kerry is a smart cookie. Who else spent four months in Vietnam, got three purple hearts, a bronze and silver star. He was also clever enough to bring his own typewriter and typed up his own medal submissions and got away with it. Yep, pretty smart or should I say cute to exploiting a then very weak system of medal submission back then.
When I was in, you couldn’t do that, it had to be someone higher up in the chain of command. Water under a very old bridge now.
Hopefully, Kerry exorcised one of his demons and feels less possessed now. :)
‘”And comparing Moveon.org to the SwiftBoaters? Are you fcuking kidding me? ”
No, I wouldn’t give Moveon.org that much credit.
“We can now see the right-wing for what they truly are – amoral fascist swine who will do and say anything to slander opponents and win elections. Fascists are truly the lowest of the low, the equal of terrorists in my book. ‘People’ like Econ101 belong in Guantanamo, as they are greater dangers to the freedom ”
Unfortunately, people like you, on both sides of the aisle, would be the greatest dangers to freedom”
ddub you are certainly right about one thing – In no way should we compare the SwiftBoaters to moveon.org. They are so far above moveon that there is no comparison. The men who make up this group served their country well, they fought in a socially unpopular war and came back to a society where one of their own would go before congress and lie about what happened in their war.
That is the only thing we agree on thought. Prove to me where one thing they said is a lie or back off your position and stop smearing people who don’t deserve it.
‘”And comparing Moveon.org to the SwiftBoaters? Are you fcuking kidding me? ”
No, I wouldn’t give Moveon.org that much credit.
“We can now see the right-wing for what they truly are – amoral fascist swine who will do and say anything to slander opponents and win elections. Fascists are truly the lowest of the low, the equal of terrorists in my book. ‘People’ like Econ101 belong in Guantanamo, as they are greater dangers to the freedom ”
Lots of hate and unsresolved issues there. Unfortunately, people like you, on both sides of the aisle, would be the greatest dangers to freedom
Hank, you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Listen, I get that all you have is to call political opponents communists, when in fact they exhibit ZERO of the traits associated with communists. If you had more than a fifth-grade education, you would understand this. However, the term ‘fascist’ fits ‘people’ like yourself perfectly. Don’t believe me? Look it up, and then take a long look in the mirror, and think about what kind of politics you support. But really, no one would expect you to do this. Self-reflection is *not* something fascists do. Better to make baseless charges against political opponents to confirm your own beliefs than to actually delve into reality and realize how truly full of sh!t you truly are. Asshat.
Hmm. Someone disagrees with the poor ddub, and he wants them to commit suicide. Pathetic creature
littlejohn (perhaps a subconscious message being relayed about yourself?) – please read my earlier comment. You know, the one about offing yourself. I’ll even provide the extension cord, pig.
ddub,
Don’t you have a boycott to be on?
ddub once again proves my point
I would take Hank any day over ddub even though Hank’s an ex- Navy man. :D
If the Swiftboaters lied – I want to know it.
I don’t think it has ever been proved that they fabricated the whole thing -but one thing IS certain – Kerry DID take part in the Winter Soldier hearings and he DID testify to committing war crimes.
That makes Kerry a WAR CRIMINAL – a self-admitted one.
After knowing that – all else pales in comparison.
CondorI believe that some of Kerry’s records are expunged, just like what happens in the civilian criminal courts.I admit my mistake if Kerry actually released some of his records AFTER the election.Frankly, to me, that doesnt cut it. He released the records when the bloggers and other fact-checkers didnt care anymore.Furthermore, none of what we have explains the faudulent “V” in the Silver Star.He is the ONLY man in history to ever have such a redundant medal!Also, did Kerry have his records rehabilitated or revised? Does this explain the weird “V”? Maybe the paperwork was redone by someone, long after the Vietnam War, who did not understand these things as well as those who served during the war?Government records are always screwed up.However, when I was discharged from active duty in the Marines, I went into a Reserve Unit.Upon leaving the Reserves, I was not issued a DD-214 at all.I was told that was standard proceedure.All I have is my Honorable Discharge Certificate.I know recods get screwed up, because I have asked a few times for my own records.However, Kerry’s case doesnt make any sense at all, and Kerry has never tried to explain it.
http://www.bowlersresourcecenter.com/notkerry/whoa.htm
The bottom line is that Kerry LOST the Vietnam Veteran vote. He lost that vote because of what other Vets thought of him.
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/glandrith_20041118.html
All of my links are from Veterans and organizations they started because they were upset with Kerry.
Kerry expected to win the Veteran Vote hands down. The man is completely out of touch.
lj – you beat me to it. But seriously, you should definitely reconsider – its apparently painless, and the world could use one less person who actually believed the Swiftboat liars. I’m really only arguing for you to kill yourself for humanity’s sake. You know, the bit about ‘cleaning up the gene pool.’ The thought of you polluting it further with offspring is indeed frightening. We certainly don’t need anymore sub-85 IQ, right-wing automatons walking around, now do we? There are already too many, as the posts on this board prove.
And ‘pathetic creature?’ Come on, I know you can do better than that. Try a little harder next time, big guy (remember, this isn’t coach-pitch anymore). But seriously, thanks for playing.
All the liberals seem content to say that what the Swiftboat Vets for truth did was the most horrible thing since Israel defeated the invading middle eastern armies.
What I see is a definate lack of any substance to their attacks.
The Swiftboat vets for truth are a bunch of vets that did the same thing and more than Kerry ever did while in Vietnam.
What is it that made the Swiftboat vets for truth so bad?
What I find interesting is all the self-righteous Dems crying ‘foul’ over the Swiftboaters and poor Kerry – and yet they didn’t protest at all when Dan Rather and CBS decided to start spreading rumors, as fact, over GWB’s record.
Unfortunately for Rather, it not only cost him his job – but his entire reputation as a journalist.
So – it’s NOT okay for Swiftboaters to tell their stories as their memory serves – but it’s fine and dandy for librats to totally FABRICATE documents that lie about the President?
Can anyone say HYPOCRITE???
ddub:
Reign it in, please. You’ve offered lots of victriol and nastiness, but very little substance.
You’ve been offered a challenge to back up your statements. You can take it up, or you can just fling mud.
One will get you an exchange of ideas, even if we still disagree. The other will get you nastiness back, marginalized, or ignored. Your call.
Oh, and you’ve earned the Godwin’s Law award. If you don’t know what that means, you can look it up.
ddumb,
ur rite, my mecine woar off an I cun know longr act lik i no nuthin.I dunno unnerstand right wing automatons, kin u hep me pleas? I ws a war crimnal as My hero JOn kurry said, I changed. Thank Budda fur JOhn Krruypowder
Ddub you aren’t worth the time it takes to respond so I think I will go upstairs and watch the rain.
Wait, wait, wait….fascists don’t like me interrupting their circle-jerk fantasizing about the ‘good old days’ of Swiftboats and Kerry and ‘traitors’ and whatever other wingnut s*** was floating around in 2004? I guess wanting to relive your halcyon days is all you’ve got, what with the current reality (and really, it says a lot about you when your political movements high point was slandering a wounded war veteran and supporting the worst president in American history).
So, in closing, continue to spin, lie, and slander. Its pretty much expected from ‘people’ like you by now.
Bring up John Kerry’s war record. Trash it, tear it apart, s*** on it.
Just remember, while doing these things, to ask yourself: “who is the president right now? How thoroughly unpopular is he? Why are people running away from the Republican Party in droves?” And the most important: “What’s going to happen to the GOP in 2008 and beyond?” I suspect that its the answer to the last question that keeps you awake at night and fixated on John f****** Kerry’s war record.
See you at the polls in 19 months, wingers.
Dear ddub,
Ooh, seems like you have some anger issues, my friend!
Thanks for that mirror suggestion, looks like I need another haircut, but other than that I look pretty good!
I reflected on my politics and I feel very content with my particular views! Hell, I can even express them without calling you names! All in all, I feel that I’m a better man than you.
John Kerry, decorated hero? Not in my book. After Christmas when you take all the tinsel off your tree is it still decorated? Is it still a ‘Christmas’ tree or trash? If you lick all the icing off your birthday cake is it still decorated? Is it still a ‘birthday’ cake? If you take your stock trailer and decorated as a float for the Memorial Day parade and after the parade you take off all the decorations is it still a float? Or is it now merely a plain ol’ stock traler again? I wonder.
If you take a decorated war hero and he throws his medals over a fence to make a cheap political point is he still a ‘decorated’ hero? If he turns his back on all of his buddies that he left behind by lying about them is he still a hero? If he lies about his service as a war protester and then tell different lies about his service as a presidential candidate do I still owe him the honor that I would bestow on a truthful and honorable man?
No ddub, my profane and confused little man, when John Kerry lied about his buddies before the Senate I no longer respected him as a man. When he threw his medals over the fence he decided that a cheap political point was more important than being a war hero. I honor his decision and right to throw his medals away. I no longer consider him to be a hero.
My email is live. My name is real. I never write anything to or about someone that I wouldn’t say to their face. Let me know privately if you have the same courage of your convictions.
Hank
I have a hard time believing anyone actually advocates the death of another – but I’m not surprised that it is a liberal that did it.
This illustrates my point of a couple of days ago -that the REAL danger to the United States, comes from inside – from the violent sector of liberality.
Shameful.
Hi Hank. I don’t really want to get in the middle of this right now but I will back you up on your last comment. Hell, you’ll probably even pop for a beer to discuss it!
ddub – Kerry is a WAR CRIMINAL.
He, himself, ADMITTED IT.
Get with the program.
GS – I missed someone wishing death above but, in reference to that in general, I would remind you of Oklahoma City and Ann Coulter wishing it had been the NYTimes.
Ben – what Coulter said was disgusting.
I’m not a Coulter fan.
Should she run for President – I will NOT vote for her.
Ben, for the record, ddub told littlejohn to kill himself. I felt we needed to denounce that kind of talk right away.
Point is – there are disgusting nutcases everywhere. Unfortunately.
OK. Been gone; only barely skimmed. Have to agree with you.
ddub,
You have exposed yourself again. I have met people like all over the country. You are undoubtedly either small in stature or small in mind.You are like the angry teenager who desparately wants to speak up while the adults talk. Full of passion, empty of thought. SO you lash out. Then someone notices you and you are full of yourself because you got someone to listen.No more, I shall ignore you, and you can feel your importance slide away like dirt on the pavement during a rainshower. Good bye little man
The contents of the disputed Lt. Col. Killian documents re Bush were true — he WAS removed from flight status, after failing to take a required medical exam.
The Swift Boaters contradicted each other, and spread phony stories. Their book ‘Unfit for Command’ self-contradicts itself.
The Swift Boaters deserved only a day or two in the media… an accurate anaylsis that exposed their BS.
“Reign it in, please. You’ve offered lots of victriol and nastiness, but very little substance”
So let’s see, calling Kerry a communist, a liar, a coward, etc is ’substance’ and me (accurately) calling right-wingers fascists is vitriol? Did you even read what the previous posters had said?
“You’ve been offered a challenge to back up your statements. You can take it up, or you can just fling mud”
What challenge? To ‘prove’ Kerry’s war record? Why should it even be an issue anymore? Why was it in the first place? That’s right, because wingers don’t deal in substance, only slander and outrageous attacks.
“One will get you an exchange of ideas, even if we still disagree. The other will get you nastiness back, marginalized, or ignored. Your call.”
I’m wondering, do you ever read this blog? Would you call the typical posts on here a reasoned ‘exchange of ideas?’ I guess it might be in comparison to right-wing radio or Fox News, but certainly not in any other sense. And its rich to say that expressing ideas at odds with what wingnuts believe will result in anything productive. Its more along the lines of ‘You don’t agree with me? Why do you hate America?’ So give me a f****** break about the ‘civil discourse’ on here (even though its usually much, much less heated than the ‘debates’ on ljworld.com).
And yes, I am familiar with Godwin’s law. The only problem is that MODERN AMERICAN RIGHT-WINGERS DO EXHIBIT MANY, IF NOT ALL, OF THE FAMOUS FOURTEEN TRAITS OF FASCISM. Don’t believe me? Here you go….
http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm
You tell me if that doesn’t sound eerily close to the positions espoused on here daily.
Now, I’m off to eat Mexican food. Thanks for the good time. Maybe we can play again at a later date!
I didn’t take my last flight physical before I got out. I was not on flying status so didn’t figure to waste the taxpayers dime or my time in taking an exam that would help my exiting status.
I did take a regular physical exam before I got out as required.
yea, ddub, I read it. Fairly regularly.
Read your posts on this thread. Go ahead. I challenge you to tell me that you’ve done anything except fling mud.
But you’re so conviced that your point of view, and no one elses, has any merit, and so angry (has the world been mean to you), that you lash out with no substance at all.
You’ve made your choice. It’s to be ignored. See ya.
When you grow up, you can play with the adults again.
Sorry, one last thing: littlejohn, PLEASE pay attention to me! I NEED the validation of your illustrious online company, and your undivided attention helps me forget that I’m 3′9″! Please, I’m on my knees here!
But seriously, dismiss me out of hand, and then say that I didn’t provide any valid arguments or reasoning because of my heated rhetoric (though I will admit my recommendation of suicide was a *bit* over the top. For that, you have my deepest apologies, sir). And besides, if you killed yourself, who would walk me through the process of getting rid of my small-man syndrome and expanding my intellectual horizons?
Cosmos, the documents are not just ‘disputed,’ they are PROVEN FORGERIES.
Rather and CBS issued apologies.
I see you still can NOT accept the truth.
Hey Ben!
I don’t know about popping for a beer! I suspect that I might be in a verbal battle with a kid!
How embarrassing!
I’m getting a little old, let see if I’ve got this right:
A decorated war hero with all of his medals, served honorably, never lied about his or his buddy’s service, republican in good standing, legally participating in the presidential election process, is now considered to be a fascist?
But a man that lied about his wounds to get three purple hearts in four months, three purple hearts without missing a day of active service because of his wounds, a man that is a proven liar about numerous facts about his service, a man that lied about war atrocities to make political capital is the best that the democrats can come up with for a presidential candidate?
Let me know if that’s about right, and I’ll go back to my sheep herding news.
Hank
Like I said Hank – don’t want to jump into the middle of this. Just incite a ‘tussle’ between you and the kid! ;^)
But, as you said, you (and Nathan) are real and email live. Sometimes I’d rather just kick it around over a cold one!
Take care of the sheep – might still need to get with you on that.
Republican,
“I was not on flying status…”
So what, and who cares? Bush was.
GSheridan,My main points were:(1) the contents of the documents were accurate — Bush WAS grounded.
(2) the Swift Boaters contradicted themselves, and told falsehoods.
Cosmos you and Dan Rather sure know how to stick together. He still says that yes the papers were forged but what was in them was true. He can’t support this opinion with anything remotely resembly facts, it’s just his opinion.
Cosmos – the contents of the forged documents were NOT accurate.
They made up the story that GWB ‘deliberately disobeyed an order,’ and that was later proven false.
Did he miss a physical?
Perhaps.
It was never recorded by ANYONE that he intentionally disobeyed.
Both CBS and Rather apologized for assuming he did, without out first checking the story. Rather even jumped the guy who gave him the story – and denounce him.
If the Navy gives out purple hearts and silver stars to people without merit. Then they have some serious record keeping probelms.
cosmos-
Just a thought. In the rules of evidence there is something called the “Best Evidence Rule.” It requires that when attempting to prove the contents of a document, that the original document be submitted. There are a number of exceptions, of course (it’s law, you know it’s not gonna be simple), but that’s the gist of it.
Rather’s document fails, utterly, that test. If the document is an acknowledged forgery (and it is), how do we put any credibility in the contents of same?
I have to agree with you GMC. I strongly suspect that there was stuff out there but we would need to see it. Or, failing that, testimony from people who were there.
I don’t know if the Navy gave out purple hears and silver start to people without merit, but I do know they have serious record keeping problems. As does most government functions. Ask anyone who’s served. Bad record keeping is a hallmark of the government.Not pretty, but true
Apology accepted
Hey Ben,
I’m a little disapointed so far, only six lambs. Three sets of twins. Usually when they start coming it’s like pop corn!
I’m sure that I’ve still got at least eight ewes bred. Waiting, watching.
Hank
http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html
What types of aircraft did you fly, Republican?
Fact check?
Half a truth can be worse than a lie.
Hank
The actions of the Swift Boat scumbags is disgusting and without a doubt the lowest, most craven act that I have ever witnessed during a political campaign. It takes a special kind of evil to lie and smear a man that actually served in Vietnam in order to prop up a person like Bush that was unwilling to even fulfill his duties in a cushy role with the National Guard. It was all just a smokescreen designed to keep attention away from the fact that while thousands of brave soldiers were being injured and killed in Vietnam, Bush was defending our freedom in the killing fields of an office complex in Alabama.
Why the “V” for Valor?Kerry is the only person, ever, to earn a Silver Star with a V.
Kerry himself should have fixed this problem long ago, but I suspect his records are such a mess he didnt want to open all of his expungement/amnesty stuff up again.
littlejohn,
Never was a pilot, but a crew member. Mostly modified 707s. I was one the knob twisters and button pushers on some “black” boxes.
All people on flying status have to take annual physicals. Since I was getting out, I opted for a regular physical as by that time I was flying a desk.
I have to ask again – why is anyone defending Kerry when he is a self-confessed WAR CRIMINAL?
His story.His confession.
I love the soldiers that defend my country – but when one comes home and declares he took part in war crimes…and then follows the well-known traitor, Fonda, around like a lovesick puppy – it changes things.
He accused fellow soldiers of things that never happened.
Any respect he may have had for serving this country flew out the window when he began to trash those who served with him.
GSheridan,
“They made up the story that GWB ‘deliberately disobeyed an order,’ and that was later proven false.”
Your proof that he was NOT ordered, or supposed to take the annual medical?
Why does an official document, 29 Sep. 1972, say he was suspended from flying status for failing to take his annual medical exam?
“It was never recorded by ANYONE that he intentionally disobeyed.”
He said that because he was living in Alabama, he was not able to make it to Houston to see his personal physican.
Why didn’t he say, as you claim, that he did NOT need to take it? That he had NOT been ordered to take it?And oops… only military surgeons can give flight physicals.
“And oops… only military surgeons can give flight physicals.”Posted by: cosmos | March 29, 2007 at 08:45 PM
That’s simply not true cosmos especially with Guard members. You can get a physical, eye checks, audiology, lab work, cardiac check and etc. from any board certified physician.
Guard is much different from active duty and they have more flexibility.
With that said, the medical care examination has to be referred by the base clinic, but it’s usually not a problem if the member is not located on the base or lives a long distance away.
Flight Surgeons have the power when it comes to medical flying duty, but don’t necessarily have all the facilities to do all the tests necessary.
The Swift Boat people are a bunch of white trash paid off by corporate America to smear an honourable combat veteran. This is keeping in tune with the Republicans who themselves have always done a great job of hiding out during wartime. I still remember the way they questioned the patriotism of Senator Max Cleland who lost both legs, one arm and an ear in Veitnam. And the fact is that most Republicans have never put on a uniform and stood for the United States of America in war or peace and they could really care less about those who have. And maybe that is a good thing because when I joined the USAF, I did not sign up to serve with America’s garbage.
Evidently Kev, you didn’t attend or pay attention to the Management and Human Relations classes required by the Air Force. :)
Hey James,
Are you feeling a little ashamed of your performance on the other blog yesterday? You certainly made an ass of yourself — to a much greater extent than you were ever able to do over here – no small feat, I would say.
As a state employee, are you using my dime to blog? Maybe your boss, Jan Satterfied, would be interested in what you are doing on the taxpayers’ and her time.
Hmmm….
If you have enough time to blog, I wonder if you have enough to do in your job. Maybe this would be an interesting subject come time for your boss’s re-election?
Republican,
“With that said, the medical care examination has to be referred by the base clinic, but it’s usually not a problem if the member is not located on the base or lives a long distance away.”
1) Did the Houston base clinic refer Bush to his “personal” physician in Houston, for his previous annual flight physicals?
2) In 1972, was the Houston base clinic UNABLE to refer Bush to a board certified physician in Alabama, when Bush was living there?
3) In 1972, drug tests became part of the flight physical. Were those also done by off-base physicians?
cosmos,
Why don’t you ask them? You can probably google the Air Guard in Texas for answers.
or not
Blank = gutless
Blank = gutless
Posted by: GMC70 | March 29, 2007 at 10:19 PM
Would you like to find out, asshole?
Methinks, you are a little bit afraid, asshole
Blank. The nic is apparantly the same as IQ.
You apparantly know who I am; it should be easy to find out where I am. If you wish to speak, man to whomever, and quit hiding behind this blog, you know where to find me. We’ll see just how much intestinal fortitude you really have.
Otherwise, I have no intention of continuing a battle of wits with the unarmed. We’re done here.
Yes, I know who you are. More importantly, I know who your boss is. She has to answer to the voters.
Let’s see how manly you are when the voters wonder how you have time to blog so much on the job, okay?
My bet is, they will be against giving you time to waste tax payers dollars on this. You and your boss, who will get copies of various posts you and I have made, will also get to decide.
You are one arrogant person. You might want to consider going into long-term psychotherapy. Though, it likely won’t help one as disturbed as you appear to be. Good luck…
Republican,
YOU said what I posted was “simply not true”.
And YOU seem to claim to be an expert re TX ANG medical issues.
Are YOU UNABLE to answer my simple, and obvious questions?
Blank:
Just as I thought. Gutless.
Blank:
Just as I thought. Gutless.
Posted by: GMC70 | March 29, 2007 at 11:09 PM
You’d better hope. Please explain to our readers how I am “gutless”, you pompous prick.
Let it rest blank. The readers have seen your gutlessness demonstrated in every post you have made here.
My email, like GMC70’s is live. Demonstrate your bravery by emailing me.
Or…forever be known as gutless!
Hank
Hankster,I won’t fall for that one. I know you can do better.
And of course, you better hope I let is rest, because your boy, GMC is getting real psychotic. I hate that, as should you.
Interesting study that phrase recognition…
One can make conclusions on who uses words and phrases like “Hankster, asshole, uses quotes a lot, your boy, prick, usually no misspelled words)
Also known to make threats and suggesting people to get psychiatric help.
Interesting, yes…interesting. :)
Last night as I read the posts on this thread, I suddenly felt pity. Pity for several reasons. I wonder what it could possibly be like to live your life with so much hate in your heart.
I felt sad for the man that started the thread in such an ignorant and biased way. An editor for a major newspaper and he uses a headline that displays such ignorance that I hardly know where to begin. “Smear money sinks Swift Boater”.
Well let’s analyze this unbelievably ignorant and biased head line. Smear money? Really? Legitimate, legal political contribution to a group of highly decorated veterans. Smear money? I don’t think so. You might check the millions of dollars that George Soros has funneled into various liberal 527s if you want to recalibrate your definition of “smear money”.
Swift Boater? Now here we have a blatant attempt to smear a man with crap. You lie and defame a group of honorable Viet Nam Veterans unjustifiably until you can then smear anyone you want with mere association with them. Sam Fox is an honorable man. He has lived an honorable and productive life. He has been active in republican politics almost his whole adult life. There has never been any hint of impropriety in his business or political life.
The democrats opposed his nomination for no other reason than he donated money to their opponents. That and the fact that Sam Fox refused to apologize for a perfectly legal and proper donation to the Swift Boat Veterans for Peace. Mr. Fox leaves with his dignity intact. The democrats left behind should be ashamed of their childish, vindictive and revengeful behavior.
Then, Randy comes along with his incredibly biased and ignorant headline, followed by two of the most incredibly ignorant and bias paragraphs I have ever read outside the NYT. Disappointing.
Then, just like we knew would happen the ignorant Bush haters crawl out from under the rock that Randy so helpfully rolled over for them with his incredibly ignorant thread. How do you reason with these people? You can’t. When their opinions are built on their irrational hate of Bush and anyone that voted for him how can you reason with them? You can’t. When their posts contain nothing but ignorant rants and profanity to support their twisted views, how can you reason with them? You can’t.
When reason has played no part of a person’s opinion on a subject, then reason can not change their opinion.
The Swift Boat Veterans are a group of men that are highly decorated Viet Nam veterans. Almost every one of them spent at least three times as long ‘in country’ as Kerry. Between them they have been awarded every medal that Kerry received and many he didn’t scores of times. If they don’t have the right to question Kerry’s honor who in the hell has the right to question theirs? No one! That’s right, you hypocritical, left wing assholes, If the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth don’t have the right to question a self-serving, lying, war protesting, admitted committer of war crimes that turned his back on his buddies and threw his medals over a fence, then what right do you have to question their service or participation in the political process? None.
We are talking about a group of men that the biggest thing in their before they went to war was their high school prom. They served honorably and when they came home they saw Kerry one night on CBS testifying before a Senate committee:
Testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 23, 1971, Kerry claimed that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam.”
Now, please read Kerry’s remarks in quotes again. They are all lies. Proven lies.
Now you good and honorable liberals are touchy, feely types. You allow your feelings to substitute for reason so I have a little challenge for you.
Imagine that you are a decorated veteran. Imagine that you have just finished one or two tours in Viet Nam on a swift boat. Imagine that you have seen things so horrible that they will haunt you for the rest of your life. Imagine that you have seen one or two of your buddies blown up or dismembered because instead of firing at a sampan from long range they approached close enough to investigate, friend or foe, and their compassion and humanity in the time of war cost them their life.
Now, imagine you are sitting in the living room with your wife on April 23, 1971 when the news comes on and there is Kerry testifying. Or maybe you are there with your parents, your mother and father. Or maybe, if you now have children, imagine that you are in the living room that evening with them watching the news. You were there. You were in country for a year. You rode the same boats Kerry did. You never saw anyone raped. You never shot a dog for fun or knew of any one that did. Imagine your rage, your anger when you heard his words.
Oh, but gentle people, that’s not the worst of it! You’ve been to war half way around the world! You can deal with a liar! It’s over for you and your conscience is clear. Who do you love the most? Your mother? Your wife? Maybe it’s your five year old daughter that is just beginning to adjust to you being in her life for the first time. Now if you want to really know how these honorable men, these war heroes that have survived a hell you can never imagine unless you’ve been there, think of John F. Kerry, I have one more thing for you to imagine.
You see, I have a friend in Nebraska that did two tours in Viet Nam on swift boats. He was scared almost every day. He has seen things I can’t even imagine. He has washed off the blood and guts of his shipmates in some of the nastiest water in world. Two purple hearts. I’ve seen the scars. Do you want to know what haunts him? It was the look in his wife’s eyes after she heard Kerry’s testimony. The questions that she couldn’t ask and he couldn’t answer. Imagine sitting there with your loved ones during Kerry’s testimony.
I’m just an ignorant old conservative republican, a criminal offense in many of your eyes. But I try to post in a reasonable way. I try not to call too many of you names. I never post anything that I wouldn’t say in person over lunch, and pay for the lunch. I donated quite a bit of money to the Swift Boat Veterans for Peace. Quite a bit for me anyway. I am very happy that they seemed to have had an influence on the outcome of the presidential election. If you have a problem with that at least be man enough to confront me in person when you call me a fascist. Or at least use your real name when you email me. My email is live.
Hank
Hank, nobody did anything illegal in “Swiftboating” Sam Fox’s nomination. It’s just politics, kind of like what we’re seeing with the flap at Justice. When dems are in power, repubs don’t get nominated.Fox isn’t the man for the job.
“Swiftboating is American political jargon for an ad hominem attack usually resulting in a benefit to an established political force.
This form of attack is controversial, easily repeatable, and difficult to verify or disprove because it is generally based on personal feelings or recollections.[1] It frequently refers to a campaign that uses viral marketing techniques to sell the allegations. By using credible-sounding sources to make sensational and difficult-to-disprove accusations against an opponent, the campaign leverages media tendencies to focus on a controversial story.[2]
The name comes from the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth (formerly “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth”) organization’s negative portrayal of 2004 Presidential candidate John Kerry’s military service in Vietnam and subsequent antiwar activities. Unverifiable or disproven charges were disseminated widely,[3] leading to swiftboating’s reputation as a controversial but effective form of “smear campaign”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SwiftboatingIf the swiftboaters are so great, why is “swiftboating” a dirty word?
“If the swiftboaters are so great, why is “swiftboating” a dirty word?”
A dirty word? Sez who? It means “A group of people who know the truth and tell it.”
http://mediamatters.org/items/200506100008
Limbaugh falsely claimed that Kerry “did not get his Form 180 records released that show his naval records”
Nationally syndicated radio host Rush Limbaugh falsely asserted that Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) “did not get his Form 180 records released that show his naval records” because the “records that he released only gave his grades from Yale.” In fact, Kerry authorized the full release of his military records to The Boston Globe when he signed Standard Form 180, according to the Navy.
Though John E. O’Neill and Jerome R. Corsi, co-authors of Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry (Regnery, August 2004), have responded to the Globe by insisting that the newly released documents do not constitute Kerry’s full military record, The New York Sun reported on June 9 that Kerry released his military records from both the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis and the Navy Personnel Command in Millington, Tennessee, citing Navy spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Daniel Hernandez, who confirmed the Globe’s report that the documents it reviewed are Kerry’s “whole record.”
In separate June 7 articles, The Boston Globe reported that it had obtained Kerry’s complete military file, including medical and education records. The Globe emphasized Kerry’s mediocre grades over the report that his full military records provided no new information about his service, even though the latter revelation definitively proved that smears by the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth during the presidential campaign were baseless.
The real dirty word would be “to be Dan Rathered” meaning “to be attacked using forged documents as evidence.”
Regardless — it’s a moot issue. JK isn’t running – and the Dems are only doing the same things Republicans have been doing for the 12-15 years they controlled Congress.
The real problem here is we let the people we hire / elect to write and monitor thier own ethics rules. There should be a citizens committee that writes and enforces the ethics rules.
and.. as I’ve said before it should a be pretty simple code: Elected / appointed / civil servants cannot take anything from anybody.
… Limit lobbyists access to elected / appointed officials by setting up a place and schedule for lobbyists to gather and pitch their wares to all the elected officials or their staff en masse at the smae time.
All elected / appointed / civil servants shall abide by the same code we espect of our military personnel : “I will not lie, cheat or steal – or tolerate those that do.” Make them take it and sign it as an oath.
All elected / appointed / civil servants shall abide by the same code we espect of our military personnel : “I will not lie, cheat or steal – or tolerate those that do.” Make them take it and sign it as an oath.
Posted by: Ken | March 30, 2007 at 08:27 AM
That would free up parking space in Washington DC by quite a bit. :)
Fleet, I never heard of anybody saying “Dan Rathered”. On the other hand, I’ve heard the term “Swiftboated” many times, all with a bad connotation.In 5 years we’ll still refer to anything sneaky, dishonorable, and underhanded as “Swiftboating” and the only ones who will remember the Dan Rather issue will be disgruntled conservatives.
“…the only ones who will remember the Dan Rather issue will be disgruntled conservatives.”
Would that be because you people abide fraud and lies?
fleettwood,
Proof that Killian did not suspend Bush from flying status, for his failure to get his annual medical exam.
Official military document, 29 Sep 1972 at http://truthandduty.com/documents.htm
“Proof…”
HA!
Fleet what better source of the ‘real truth’ than the producer that got the hatchet before Rather. Cosmos check your sources their prejudices are showing.
This woman is explaining how she tried to ‘marry’ the fake pages to the ‘real’ events. I’m still waiting for the truth to emerge.
The Swiftboaters will always be my heros. I to had friends that came back from Vietnam permanently scared. I heard stories of horrible things that happened over there. I know many Gold Star mothers that buried their sons from that conflict.
Hank just because there are idiots on this blog who don’t understand what you said so eloquently doesn’t mean they are in the majority.
The democrat party was the party of many honorable men – the democrat party today is not that party. They should feel shame for what they are still doing in the name of John Kerry.
fleettwood,
Sorry, my typo — I meant to ask you to PROVE that Bush was NOT suspended by Killian.
This is a copy of an official NG document. Do you have any proof that it’s NOT authentic?http://truthandduty.com/documents/CBS001141.pdf
ksgrm,
Is John O’Neill your “hero” because he LIED about “a small family was killed” on a sampan? One 12-year old was accidently killed — the mother and a second child were brought aboard Kerry’s boat.
Is O’Neill your “hero” because of all his lies?
O’Neill kept lying in Koppel’s face. And Koppel? What else? Unprepared!!http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh101804.shtml
Their book ‘Unfit for Command’ self-contradicts itself on it’s own pages. Do you ‘flip a coin’ to decide which version is true?
Cosmos you try in many ways to prove your side is correct and somewhere the truth might lie somewhere in between. I don’t pretend to know the O’neil story but I do know that this war was unlike any war we had fought before and ever have since. Just as the Iraqi war is. Many people contradicted Kerry’s story. He went to war with a typewriter and video camera. Get real.
Anyone who would defend what he did infront of congress is just blind to the facts. My brother-in-law set in a tent and typed up orders. He was wounded when someone yelled “incoming” and he dove for a foxhole. He still wears the schrapnel in his leg but doesn’t feel that he earned his purple heart in the way that those in the fields did. He thought there was something very fishy about Kerry’s medals. By the way he is a strong union democrat.
“Do you have any proof that it’s NOT authentic?”
Man, that’s a toughy. Do you have any proof that there is NOT a tooth fairy? Hmmmm?????
ksgrm,
You claim that the “Swiftboaters will always be my heros” — but you don’t know, or care if they lied, and contradicted themselves.
Heh, whatever…
fleettwood,
You believe that a National Guard document is the same as the “tooth fairy”? That’s very bizarre.
cosmo- Prove they are not.
cosmos, you miss one very important point. The SwiftBoaters actually KNEW John Kerry. They served together and that usually bonds men for life.
But not only did they not bond with, or respect, him; they hated him.
That speaks volumes.
fleettwood,
Prove that he and his buddy James R. Bath continued to fly after Sep. 1972.Another copy, with less redacted.http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
GSheridan,
Please prove that this is inaccurate.http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html“None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry’s boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him.”
Now it is a “scurrilous” episode for people to tell the truth in contrast to someone who lies for a living. John Kerry lied about his service, the Swiftboad Veterans felt it necessary since they KNEW he was lying to tell the truth. That’s scurrilous?
I always thought scurrilous meant:1.grossly or obscenely abusive: a scurrilous attack on the mayor.2.characterized by or using low buffoonery; coarsely jocular or derisive: a scurrilous jest.(Dictionary.com)
If we use that definition then Rathergate fits into the scurrilous category as well. Dan Rather was grossly and obscenely abusive in his false claim against George Bush. Rather acted the buffoon by continuing to defend memos that were obviously forged, targeting the president in a coarse, derisive manner.
What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Eh what?
Dan Rather came out with this story less than 2 months before the presidential elections.I would prefer to be “Swift Boated” (co-workers tell the truth about me) than be Dan Rathered (forged documents used to besmirch me).
Fleet, lets watch that “you people” stuff. You don’t know which people I am, lol.I’m not trying to jerk your chain. What part of what I said don’t you agree with? Like it or not, only hard-core neocons will remember the Dan Rather thing.Swiftboating is like Watergate. It’s part of the language now and will be for decades.Any sneaky dirty thing in politics might be called “Swiftboating”.
“Any sneaky dirty thing in politics might be called “Swiftboating”.”
I can’t help what people believe or not, true or not. I know what and who the SwiftBoater were, as well as what Rather did.The truth means something.
John Kerry is an ass hole, always was, always will be
“Like it or not, only hard-core neocons will remember the Dan Rather thing.”
A sad commentary on Jounalistic integrity, when they don’t shun they’re own piriah.
“Smear money sinks Swift Boater”
Even the Headline for this thread is wrong. This guy wasn’t a Swift Boater. The Swift Boaters served with Kerry. This guy just gave some money.
“…when they don’t shun they’re own piriah.”
Is that like a fish with really scary teeth. I’ve heard they can eat a cow in like a second or something.
they can eat Rosie in like a second.they have no sense of smell.
or sight.
“Swiftboating is like Watergate. It’s part of the language now and will be for decades.Any sneaky dirty thing in politics might be called “Swiftboating”.” Posted by: Infernal B | March 30, 2007 at 04:21 PM
Infernal there are many words that many used to use in normal language. These words are no longer acceptable in polite language. The same can be done with ’swiftboating’.
I admire these men who with much more to lose than to gain took on a presidential nominee who in their opinion lied about his war experience.
We can still see from this headline that the mainstream media is still maligning them. That is one word that will not be in my vocabulary. It starts one person at a time.
I guess you could eat a shoe if you had to. Isn’t that a punch line?
Yes, ksgrm.They weren’t attacking his politics, they were trying to set the milatary record straight.Big difference.
I wonder how much they were paid. There sure was a lot of money involved in that group.
HT – is your post comparing budgets of the Swifties vs. the DNC?
HT they operated on a shoespring. At one time they had only about $150,000 to launch a national infomercial. That is why some VM vets who supported their actions reached deep in their own pockets to lanuch it and then when people saw the truth of what they were saying some bigger donors pitched in.
I doubt that any of them got rich off this.
So 1/3 of their money came from one man, Sam Fox? NOT LIKELY!
No HT after they got started there were some big donors. One from Texas, I can’t remember his name, gave over $4 million. He is in real estate there. I am sure you will find this suspect but I guess if you can afford it and believe in the cause it’s ok. They originally got started on their own seed money and as they say ‘the rest is history’.
Wow! Interesting thread. Not being an American, I find it amazing that so much time is spent arguing over this subject.
Bush’s war record is wimpish, and Kerry was, at least, ‘over there’.
I think you will find that cases of rape, torture and mutilation were proven in VietNam. As was the wholesale destruction of villages and the execution of captured VC by US soldiers.
Not in every case, but it happened more than once and less than all the time. And for what?US:58,000 dead. VietNam: 2 million dead.Truly for nothing but the ideology of “The Domino Theory” (fyi – the pizza chain won)
I am astounded that anyone can believe that a ‘lifer’ politician can be honest. Any politician at all for that matter. (Maybe with the exception of Singapore with a new salary of US$2.3 million for Members of Parliament)
There is only ONE honest broker in the world today and that is Nelson Mandela. If only he were American!
Infernal and Cosmos
“Swiftboating” will be remembered because it worked.
More than anything else, the Swiftboat Veterans will have a deterent effect on other false “heroes” who try to use puffed up resumes.
Kerry never spent the night in a hospital, while in uniform.
It should be remembered that Kerry, himself, worked to keep his anti war past secret, he KNEW he had lied in his own statements. Kerry knew that many of the “witnesses” who “testified” about fake “war crimes” had lied.Some of Kerry’s “witnesses” had never been to Vietnam!
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12920
http://www.johnfkerrysucks.com/
http://www.archive-news.net/Kerry/JK_timeline.html
From the above, Sgt Hubbard NEVER served in Vietnam, but was one of Kerry’s “witnesses” of war crimes!
“June 1971 According to an FBI report, Kerry praised Vietnam’s communist dictator Ho Chi Minh, comparing him to George Washington. At the time, Kerry was serving as the point man for VVAW. The president of the organization, Al Hubbard, claimed to be an Air Force captain who was severely injured during his service in Vietnam, but it was discovered that Hubbard was a sergeant who never served in Vietnam. Hubbard did serve the communist cause, making propaganda trips to Hanoi paid for by the Communist Party USA.”Dan Rather is a failure in his old age, and a joke. Better that his failure to sink Bush is forgotten.
Kerry is a traitor.
Kerry the traitor will NOT be forgotten. That is why Kerry did not run again.
By the way lefties, wasnt Kerry a TRAITOR to both sides? By trying to appeal to Vietnam Veterans who felt they served honorably, and ALSO appeal to anti-war lefties, doesnt the man appear to be incapable of loyalty to any cause?
And Cosmos, our deluded WEBlog “truth detector” — got any PROOF that Kerry was EVER in Cambodia?
Kerry lied about Cambodia:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005483
“As was the wholesale destruction of villages and the execution of captured VC by US soldiers.Zipperhead | March 30, 2007 at 10:42 PM “.
Welp, war IS Hell.If we were more aggresive (US Troops), this Iraq thing would be done, and Iran would be s-ing in their pants.
Ask Dresden, or any other WWII city that got in freedom’s way.
Point on, Sanford. Our attack on Iraq should have been swift and massive. That’s the major point of contention I have with this administration. They tried to fight a war on the cheap. We should have bombed Iraq into oblivion before the first American troop set foot in that God-forsaken country. And we should have gone in with at least 3 times the manpower we did.
PAUL F. ROSELL,
The Swift Boaters proved that U.S. media is dysfunctional. The S-Br’s falsehoods, self-contradictions, etc. should’ve been completely exposed within a few days.
Defend Thurlow’s claim that there was no small arms fire, when Thurlow got a Bronze Star for courage “in the face of enemy fire” during the same incident.
Defend O’Neill’s claim that a Swift boat commander would be “seriously disciplined or court-martialed” for crossing the Cambodian border.In 1971 O’Neill saidhttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/24/asb.00.htmlO’NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O’NEILL: Yes, sir.——Was O’Neill “seriously disciplined or court-martialed”?
The smear campaign on Al Gore is a similar example. Media should’ve debunked the misquotes re ‘Love Story’, “invented”(sic) the Internet, farm chores, Love Canal, etc.
Instead media spread them, and falsely painted Gore as a delusional, serial exaggerator. And gullible, lazy citizens believed it.