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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted March 4, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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If you think that Wich/Sed Co is dysfunctional, check this out:
Lawmaker wants to end cultural compactBy James CarlsonThe Capital-JournalPublished Friday, March 02, 2007A Johnson County representative said during a House committee meeting Thursday the “poor” people of her county shouldn’t have to pay for any more Kansas-Missouri cultural ventures.
“We’re tired of the schemes,” said Rep. Judy Morrison, R-Shawnee. “How many people enjoy these artsy things?”
The discussion in the House Federal and State Affairs Committee centered on a bill to repeal a 1991 cultural compact between Johnson County in Kansas and Jackson County in Missouri. It allows both sides of the state line to pool resources and funds on projects benefitting Kansas and Missouri.
“This is just bad policy,” said Rep. Benjamin Hodge, R-Overland Park. “It allows big businesses, the people with money, to get together with local governments to generate big-money projects that are used by very few people.”
During the meeting, Morrison variously referred to the people of her county as “poor” and “rednecks” who are routinely asked for a new tax to help pay for a bistate project.
“We just want to keep a little bit of our money,” she said.
The compact was used in the mid-1990s to help renovate Union Station in Kansas City, Mo. Morrison said she thought the renovation was a success but that now the Science City exhibit within the station is rocky.
She also said not many people from Johnson County cared about cultural activities. She said residents have to use “pathetic things like e-mail” for entertainment.
“It’s elitism,” she said.
James Carlson can be reached at (785) 233-7470 or james.carlson@cjonline.com.
What’s up with 2012? Did anyone see the History Channel’s show on the Mayan Mystery?
I missed it, but folks were talking about it – seems the Mayans, the Chinese, the Aztecs, and now even some webgeeks are predicting doom and gloom for all of us that year.
I never bought into the whole Y2K – so it’s kind of hard for me to believe any of this – especially if it’s all based upon some strange number system an ancient, and unsophisticated people used for their calendar system.
Oh – and supposedly the Great Pyramid contains some link to 2012 also.
May 5, 2000 was supposed to be the day our tectonic plates shifted – causing global disaster.
The Jehovah Witnesses predicted doomsday after doomsday.
What, if anything, is different this time about this date, besides the fact that so many have chosen it?
Hehehe, most people in the art scene that I met in Wichita, were mostly poor, and most do use e-mails. I guess it is a JoCo thing?
JoCo Legislators are making ours look good. ;)
I guess these Republican Legislators in JoCo are the equivilant to the anti-arena people here.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070228/wl_canada_afp/canadaenvironmentkyoto_070228180440
UFO science key to halting climate change: former Canadian defense ministerWed Feb 28, 2:45 PM ETOTTAWA (AFP) – A former Canadian defense minister is demanding governments worldwide disclose and use secret alien technologies obtained in alleged UFO crashes to stem climate change, a local paper said Wednesday.?”I would like to see what (alien) technology there might be that could eliminate the burning of fossil fuels within a generation … that could be a way to save our planet,” Paul Hellyer, 83, told the Ottawa Citizen.Alien spacecrafts would have traveled vast distances to reach Earth, and so must be equipped with advanced propulsion systems or used exceptional fuels, he told the newspaper.Such alien technologies could offer humanity alternatives to fossil fuels, he said, pointing to the enigmatic 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico — which has become a shrine for UFO believers — as an example of alien contact.”We need to persuade governments to come clean on what they know. Some of us suspect they know quite a lot, and it might be enough to save our planet if applied quickly enough,” he said.Hellyer became defense minister in former prime minister Lester Pearson’s cabinet in 1963, and oversaw the controversial integration and unification of Canada’s army, air force and navy into the Canadian Forces.He shocked Canadians in September 2005 by announcing he once saw a UFO.
G perhaps the weirdest story I have about my grandfather is about the day we were visiting and the news was talking about the moon landing ( yeah this did not happen yesterday LoL) and showing some video. Suddenly Grandpa turned to my dad and said, “You Bernie we had our lives and they have been basically good ones. But that poor boy (pointing at me setting on the floor) has just started his and it is a shame that the world is ending now!”. Grandpa was a Lutheran and his preacher had told the congregation the prior Sunday that once man sets foot on the moon the world would end and be prepare!
Though I do not want it to happen, I think the end will come and more then likely it will be we (the human race) that will cause it. It just seems the human race is just in general get that stupid and shallow. Be it Global warming or some moron shoving their finger down on a button and saying “ Oh well you knew it was going to happen someday!”. The future may be on shaky ground with both the United States and Iran having Presidents that are both “doom daters”.
But yes, it does seem like there are some many that try to use a S.W.A.G. (scientific wild ass guess) to predict the end. “But no one shall know the hour or place”, for its part it may be the human race that is the deciding factor. As for me, I vote that we not do it in mine or my children or my children’s children life time.
Lol, after reading what I just posted I may need some more coffee and wake up a little more!”You Bernie” should have read “You know Bernie”. and “But yes, it does seem like there are some many” should have been “But yes, it does seem like there are so many”Please forgive me….
Petro industry has made trillions from conservatives by pretending global warming doesn’t matter. Thus the petro industry has allowed tax dollar hating conservatives to spend spend bilions upon billions on taxes.
One of the most convenient ways to cut the need for more energy plants in general is to cut back on use within ones business or home. Turn off lights even if they are energy efficient energy star lighting systems and lower thermostats(wear wool sweaters). These are simple ways to reduce pollution. Another simple way to reduce pollution is to drive a hybrid or high mpg car for everyday driving around. This way you might be able to justify an SUV for family vacations. Then again there are hybrid SUV’s on the market that get improved mileage.
If we all work together by turning off eletricity at every opportunity we won’t need new plants thus less corporate welfare thus far less pollution. Ratepayers have a win win win solution to be excited about.
Or when you leave the house how many times can you burn calories instead of burning gasoline by walking or biking or use less gas by using public transporation.
Gore invests in and sells Green Tags which offsets polluting energy sourcesthus overall less pollution http://www.b-e-f.org/GreenTags/
What are the rest of us doing?
Ultra green house construction began when? The absolute best thing Gore can do with his situation is reduce his footprint in the house he owns. None of us know exactly what he has done because this is more about politics than concern for pollution reduction. There are obviously some out there who are afraid he will have a major impact on consumers thus impact profits somewhere. These same people may also be afraid he will run for presidentand take over the White House. Shall we say character assassination is more important than supporting pollution reduction.
In the meantime what are the rest of us doing? You do not have to be rich to buy green tags or whatever is available in your area!http://www.b-e-f.org/GreenTags/skiGreen/skiGreen.shtm
If we all work together by turning off eletricity at every opportunity we won’t need new plants thus less corporate welfare thus far less pollution. Ratepayers have a win win win solution to be excited about.
LOL WD, we know we’re internet addicts when we have to get in a post before our other addictions.
Posting while sleepy, sometimes I do too. :D PWS?
Hey! My pal Robin Bailey made the front page of the Salina Journal today. The same AP article appeared in the WE.
Water issues are “rising” again, hehehe, no pun intended.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/state/16831454.htm
Peg’s on a tear today too! Good stuff about water after she nails the Kansas Dept of Tourism and their marketing folly.
http://www.kansasprairie.net/blog1/blogindex.htm
I read the article from the SJ – and I have to ask, what the hell kind of pond does this Robin have that it behaves in this fashion:
[quote]“It’s because of irrigators,” she explains. “Once they turn that spigot on down the road, that’s the minute you see the water move from the pond.”[end quote]
Now, I have ponds – and my ponds have a solid bottom – they are not connected by some underground water cavern to any other water source that would drop their level if that source drew on the supply.
That kind of pond sounds a little scary.
Unless the irrigator down the way actually has his pump stuck into her pond and is pumping directly from it.
So I reiterate – what the hell kind of pond has its level drop when someone else starts to irrigate?
Maybe Robin has a little pond water betwixt the ears?
GS – I would guess (but only a guess) that she has one of those ’sand pit’ ponds that is in direct communication with the aquifer. We have many of these around the Wichita area.
GS – 2012. I didn’t see the show and so can only guess. One thing I do remember from years ago is that some guy claimed that a particular alignment of planets would trigger tectonics. The Mayan (and Aztec) had sophisticated astronomy and calendars. I wonder if there is some connection with this?
I saw PART of that program. They did find several references in several historical cultures to 2012.
My kid turns 18 that year. THAT is scary enough for me!
Ben I think what you are remembering was called “harmonic convergence”. It did indeed involve a planetary alignment that SOME felt might cause gravitational tidal action on the Earths crust and seas. Of COURSE the idea was silly. The Sun and Moon exert FAR greater gravitation on the Earth than all the planets put together. The Sum because of its mass and the Moon because of it’s nearness to the Earth.
“When the Clintons came to Washington, D.C. in 1993, they could choose any public school for Chelsea. Being responsible parents of means, Bill and Hillary Clinton sent her instead to the elite private Sidwell Friends School. Two years later Mr. Clinton vetoed a bill that would have allowed low-income D.C. parents to use public funds to send their children to private schools. (A subsequent version of that program was signed into law by George W. Bush.)
And today presidential candidate Mrs. Clinton continues to stridently oppose school choice. In a speech to the National Education Association she vowed “never to abandon our public schools” — speaking apparently as a politician, not a parent.
John Edwards, Mr. Populist, decries that “America has two school systems — one for the affluent and one for everyone else.” He should know. When he joined the U.S. Senate he sent his children to a religious school because, according to USA Today, the D.C. “public schools are deeply troubled.” Mr. Edwards, however, opposes private school choice for low-income families on the curious grounds that this would “drain resources” from public schools. By such logic Mr. Edwards himself “drained” approximately $132,000 from the D.C. public schools.
Al Gore, who may yet join the presidential race, has said empathetically, “If I was a parent of a child who went to an inner-city school that was failing, I might be for vouchers, too.” But he isn’t, and so he is not. Mr. Gore sent all of his children to elite private schools in the nation’s capital, like the one he attended growing up. But he militantly opposes school choice for low-income families.”
Seriously Anon, what is your motivation for putting all of these educational voucher issues up here?
Are you a religious nut? Paid by a lobby? A lobbyist?
I don’t know why anyone is worried about global warming since in about 20 years none of us will be around to worry about it.
Oops. Forgot a linky:http://men.msn.com/articlepm.aspx?cp-documentid=1628365>1=8991
Ralph from what perspective? Nuclear war or Rapture right?
Ah! Scientific. Ok. Well hopefully Bruce Willis will blow it up to a beautiful Aerosmith song.
ralph – fascinating. Thanks for the link.
There is quite a lot of discussion about this prediction in the scientific community. Google the Apophis meteor. Gives me some real concerns. Much more so than global warming.
Anybody going to watch the Jesus Tomb on the Discovery Channel tonight?
I believe you nailed it, p-mom. Money on anon being a paid shill for some vouchers program, and found this blog as a free way to advertise. Probably bills by the hour, too?
Shame that anon continues this unatributed drivel in a quest for something…takes up space and is a waste of time.
Try this linky:http://www.guardian.co.uk/space/article/0,14493,1660485,00.html
Makes you wonder why the mediots are going just crazy about this threat.
Yes but we should still take measures to protect our earth instead of sitting on our hands looking at the sky, waiting for the end that might not happen.
Joe I want to watch it.
Interesting. A point made in the article is that we have a hard time dealing with very low-probability very high-consequence events. I tend to like the idea of ‘nudging’ it.
However, what happens if we do nudge it and then find that we nudged it from a missing orbit to a hitting orbit?
I like the idea of putting a transponder there and then perhaps launching the ion-drive gizmo mentioned. Then, after we have things in place and have also gotten more data, decide the next course of action.
I just have to say this morning that I am really ASHAMED of the Cherokee Indian Nation for voting to be RACIST and eject from their tribe Freedmen who had every right to be there. I thought that the white folks treated the ex slaves bad enough but not even they tried to revoke their US Citizenship and drive them off the land that they have been on for 150 years. My fear is that this will cost other tribes such as the Osage of which I am 1/4th dearly politically. Although the Nations are self governing they all depend on the good will of other Americans and political capital in Congress. And the Black Congressional Caucus has always been among the most ardent of supporters of the various Nations. Not only that but a large amount of tourism and casino business in Oklahoma comes from blacks in Tulsa and Oklahoma City who are not going to ba happy about this. It is unbeliveable to me that the Cherokees would choose to pick on a tiny minority of their tribal members (appx 2000 out of over 200,000 members) that have been in that tribe for over 150 years. Especially after they way they were treated.
Gore should not preach to us in smaller houses!
Indian tribes use to own slaves during the slavery period. Especially in Oklahoma, which was Indian terrority for a long time and under the Missiouri Compromise line of Slavey states and terrorities.
Gore is a good preacher but a poor pastor.
Well I wouldn’t call this thing a bigger deal than global climate change. Still it should be studied. There should be an extensive search for and study of all N ear E arth O rbit (NEO) space objects.
A mass driver or solar sail can have a significant deflection of a threat if deployed early enough.
anonymous is probably a paid shill like the Flint Hills Policy Institute people.
When I see anonymous, I see “scroll over.”
But it is gratifying to see the reich wing wasting their money this way.
The Jesus tomb program will be just as dissapointing as Geraldo’s big vault opening.
A number of Republicans on this blog complain about Democrats being mean-spirited. I wonder what they think of this:
“”I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word ‘faggot,’ so I — so kind of an impasse, can’t really talk about Edwards,” Ann Coulter told GOP activists attending the annual Conservative Political Action Conference on Friday.”
Yeah Ben
SIgh…..
I HATE to give this thing any advertising.
But if you want to see more of what narrow…er I mean conservative minds consider humor, there is the second installment of FOX “news” Half hour news hour tonight at 9.
Folks? The first one was SO BAD that they had to use a laugh track. And they had a STUDIO AUDIENCE! The premise is that Ann Coulter is Vice President to Rush Limbaughs administration. If you can believe it, it gets worse from there. I may watch this one for further insight into the reptile brain. That’s if I can’t find a dentist for some fun root canal therapy.
I am not responsible for any deaths due to boredom or loss of IQ points if you choose to watch.
We’re surprised that Coultergeist was speaking at the biggest GOP fundraiser?
Not us, said the democrats.
Random thoughts…….
Jesus Tomb – Absolutely. I have believed for many years that Jesus was a great philosopher, but was not divine. That having been said, I do remember Jerry and the Amazing Empty Vault. One way or another, this should be interesting.
The Cherokees – I am pretty unhappy about this. I understand some of the reasoning – many non-Indians would claim ancestry – but it still seems to be a slap at people that were viewed to be full tribal members until yesterday. I am sure that there is more to come.
12/21/12 – Just in case, I am going to leave my social calendar open that day. Do you think that at 12:21 AM the skies will open and the anti-Christ will appear?
Obscenity alert…………
I would not boink Ann Coulter with Rush Limbaugh’s Viagra-enhanced Cheney for all of Haliburton’s money.
Without a doubt, Coultergeist is the most disgusting commentator that the Right has puked up.
Ann Coulter is obviously an intelligent women (Constitutional Law Attorney), but at times she makes some comments that aren’t very smart.
I remember the uproar when she said this (quote from Wikipedia.)
“During an episode of Politically Incorrect, she said: “I think [women] should be armed but should not vote… women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it… it’s always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care.” [100] [citation needed]She also once said: “It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 – except Goldwater in ‘64 – the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted.
I think this was before Clinton was elected, didn’t check the chronology.
“but at times she makes some comments that aren’t very smart.”
Some comments?
“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”
That single quote sums up Coulter.
Millions of AFL-CIO Members Support Universal, Single-PayerHealthInsurance
> Millions of AFL-CIO Members Support> Universal, Single-Payer Health Insurance>> By Harry Kelber>> When the AFL-CIO Executive Council meets March 6-8 in Las Vegas, itwill> be deciding what to do about the nation’s most important domesticproblem,> health insurance for all Americans. It should recognize the wishes of> millions of union members and endorse and campaign for the UnitedStates> National Health Insurance Act (H.R. 676)) that would establish a> single-payer health insurance system with guaranteed coverage for all> Americans.>> The Council will surely be impressed by the grass-roots,extraordinary> support for H.R. 676. Union members in 40 states, represented by 239labor> organizations that include four international unions, 17 state> federations, 63 central labor councils and scores of local unions,favor> the single-payer measure, which eliminates profiteering by insurance> companies, pharmaceutical companies and HMOs.>> H.R. 676 would create a publicly-financed, privately-delivered healthcare> system that uses the already existing Medicare program by expandingit and> improving it for all U.S. residents. The goal of the legislation isto> ensure that all Americans, regardless of employment, income or healthcare> status, will have a legal guarantee for access to the highest qualityand> cost effective health care services.>> The four AFL-CIO international unions that have officially endorsedH.R.> 676 are: United Auto Workers, International Longshore Workers Union,> United Association of Plumbers and Pipe Fitters, and the National> Association of Letter Carriers. In addition, there are many membersin> virtually every international union who support the bill.>> The 17 state federations that have signed on for H.R. 676 (originally> introduced by Rep. John Conyers, a pro-labor congressman fromMichigan)> are: Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri,North> Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, SouthDakota,> Vermont, Washington State, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.>> AFL-CIO Can Reclaim Image as Workers’ Champion>> The Council’s endorsement would put the single-payer plan in theforefront> of the national debate about how to reform the health care system. It> would make organized labor a principal player in the debate, givingnew> hope to the 47 million Americans that have no health care coverageand the> millions who are being exploited by insurance and drug companies.>> An AFL-CIO campaign for H.R. 676 would receive an immediate and> enthusiastic response from tens of thousands of union members acrossthe> country, who would gladly volunteer for a cause that means so muchfor> working families. The “talking points” for H.R. 676. are numerous and> persuasive: Under single-payer, everyone is guaranteed choice of> physician, as well as comprehensive and uniform coverage. Whetheryou’re> rich or poor, you get the same level of treatment.>> Even if you are unemployed or lose or change your job, your health> coverage goes with you. It ends the insurance companies’ interferencewith> care. There is no denial of coverage due to pre-existing conditionsor> cancellation of policies for “unreported” minor health problems.>> The amount of money that single-payer can save will be enormous.Insurance> agencies and drug companies are notorious for their highadministrative> costs, exorbitant executive salaries, and profits for thestockholders.> And perhaps best of all, the single-payer system doesn’t have tostart> from scratch. It builds on Medicare, which has served millions of> Americans for four decades.>> All of the current proposals on health care, including PresidentBush’s,> rely on “market forces,” allowing the for-profit companies tocontinue> their exploitive control of an industry that serves a vital humanneed.>> By endorsing H.R. 676 and waging a full-scale campaign for itspassage,> the AFL-CIO can regain the respectful attention it once had inWashington> and across the country. It could probably serve as a boost for the> Employee Free Choice Act.>> The Executive Council’s decision on national health insurance may beas> important as any it has made in years. Let’s hope it is the rightone.>> Our two weekly columns and their archives (LaborTalk and The World of> Labor) can be viewed and downloaded at our website:> http://www.laboreducator.org.>> ____________________________________>> The above article of interest to union members is distributed by:>> All Unions Committee For Single Payer Health Care–HR 676> c/o Nurses Professional Organization (NPO)> 1169 Eastern Pkway, Suite 2218> Louisville, KY 40217> (502) 636-1551> email: nursenpo@aol.com> 3/2/07
This is a great article from the NY Times regarding the abuses of power by the BFEE. These are actions that have been taken by the Bush Administration that need to be reversed if America is going to be the shining example of freedom that we used to be…..
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/opinion/04sun1.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
I was just told that on a current KAKE TV poll, almost 80% voted for RE-VOTING THE ARENA!!
Admittedly several million dollars of easy come, easy go sales tax money has already been spent on this ill-fated project. But mega millions can still be saved.
Citizens need to call Sedgwick County Commissioners David Unruh, Tim Norton and Tom Winters to tell them to stop wasting this money … now. Also sign the petitions that are being circulated throughout the City and County.
Its time to take back YOUR local Sedgwick County government.
I hope they get a lot of signatures on the petitions. Even if they can’t force a re-vote they will set the stage for what will come …
The Cherokee Indian Nation- and I know this as a holder of a CDIB card but not a tribal member (my grandmother was)- has one of loosest requirements for tribal membership of any of the Nations. All they require is that you prove ancestry to Dawes Rolls. It does not matter even if you are 1/100th Cherokee, they will allow you to join. some other tribes require members to be at least 1/4th native to join. This is why it is so digusting that they want to kick the Freedmen out who are on Dawes Rolls and have been tribal members for 150 years. In fact, the Cherokee Nation signed a treaty with the U.S. government granting these people full tribal citizenship! And yet they always complain (and rightfully so) about all the broken treaties of the past. They wish to remove from tribal land Freedmen but yet they complain about their people were forcibly removed from the south. I just don’t get it.
HOLY COW! Army Times says thatWalter Reed services outsourced to HALLIBURTON–Fired Chief ordered by Army not to testify
*****Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief
By Kelly Kennedy – Staff writerPosted : Saturday Mar 3, 2007 9:31:09 ESTThe Committee on Oversight and Government Reform has subpoenaed Maj. Gen. George Weightman, who was fired as head of Walter Reed Army Medical Center, after Army officials refused to allow him to testify before the committee Monday.
Committee Chairman Henry Waxman and subcommittee Chairman John Tierney asked Weightman to testify about an internal memo that showed privatization of services at Walter Reed could put “patient care services? at risk of mission failure.”
But Army officials refused to allow Weightman to appear before the committee after he was relieved of command.
. . . . .
The memorandum “describes how the Army’s decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed Army Medical Center was causing an exodus of ‘highly skilled and experienced personnel,’” the committee’s letter states. “According to multiple sources, the decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed led to a precipitous drop in support personnel at Walter Reed.”
The letter said Walter Reed also awarded a five-year, $120-million contract to IAP Worldwide Services, which is run by Al Neffgen, a former senior Halliburton official.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/Weightmansubpoena/
Support the troops. Outsource their medical care to Dick Cheney’s company.
These war profiteers have not an iota of shame . . .
I like Ann Coulter. She is defintely good for the left. In fact, if the Democrats were smart, they would use her in campaign TV commercials next year. Just say “This is what Republican leaders REALLY thin of women” and play her in her own words. I agree somewhat with her that, for the most part, women are not logical people. They tend to think more emotionally than logically. That is why they make great teachers and nurses but lousy lawyers and cops. But God wired them that way to balance out the logical thinking but hardend male. That is what makes life work. And you want that balance at the ballot box- men who vote with their heads and women that vote with their hearts. It might prevent another stupid war!
JWink,
Your full of nonsense on the arena re-vote. Its not just money spent already by the County, contracts have been signed that full payment is forthcoming. Those jobbers have hired workforce to design, then eventually construct the arena.
Lives, Jwink. Families and individuals with jobs on the line. They will sue their employers, who will then sue the County.
All delays add future costs to the arena your whining about.
We need a better replacement than the Coliseum for the long term use for our community.
You can demand full administration of tax payer dollars but this project is beyond re-voting.
Your re-vote is supposed to do what? People complain the arena isn’t going to be big enough.
People are complaining about a cost WE ALL ARE SHARING and its a finite sales tax with an ending date. Outsiders are paying much as any of us living here in the County.
The money collected can’t be used for some other project.
You just want to make noise, so does the Banshee Dee. Others complain maybe parking won’t be enough, can’t explain that complaint.
We haven’t seen a parking plan because buildings still have to come down.
Some lie the tax will won’t end.
Some lie the tax won’t end!
Sorry about the typo’s.
I can’t answer the phone and type.
Thanks for picking up a workable link on the Reed story, Capn’. The DU link rolled to a deleted page.
Mrage – we have set a precedent with the telephone excise tax being refunded via line 71 of 1040. Similarly, this sales atx could be refunded on K-40 line 24.
Kev I think that’s a very stereotypical view for something serious.
Women are feely, but to say men aren’t is wrong, they’ve just been taught to suppress it.
Women can think rationally and do so quite well, despite our raging hormones and emotions.
Ben,
That’s not the point. The tax isn’t bankrupting anyone.
You want Wichita to improve. How can the arena idea improve with people re-voting it?
The Coliseum sucks for the future benefit in this community. Its in the wrong place and that’s been proved. It’s too costly fixing that old barn.
We start fresh, a better design with 17,000 seats and hope its a draw for larger and better entertainment to Wichita in the future.
Mrage – I never said it was bank-rupting anyone. Just that I believe that it will do the opposite of improving Wichita. It has not been proved that the Coliseum is in the wrong place.
As for your “fresh, a better design with 17,000 seats” – good luck, ain’t gonna happen. It will be the 15,000-seat facility at a much larger cost than voted on.
As for ” How can the arena idea improve with people re-voting it?” why not put your 17,000-seat idea there?
As for whether the tax will end or not; it probably will simply because it is mandated. However the spending will not. Since the loss reserve has been pretty much eliminated by the cost over-runs it will require larger subsidies than advertised. It will be interesting to see how they try to justify that; especially when they are reminded of the fact that there was to be a $23,611,000 reserve fund.
Editors?
If Jwink is correct about this poll…links please anyone?…then you should give us a thread on re-voting the arena. Whether you want to or not.
It’s 17,000 seats possible for basketball, 15,000 for hockey.
When the re-vote desires become specific, its assuming wrong information.
The Coliseum is in the wrong place because the vote decided that.
Downtown is closer to the airport, that matters. Ask any arena designer. Call them, all are listed in some phone book or online. Look at other cities, placing their arena’s.
The re-vote to tear down the Coliseum and place it there?
You like the Hyatt, it needs improving. Nothing like the Hyatt will ever be built near Park City.
Why isn’t more reasonable for it to be downtown?
Your future spending concern is very questionable after the downtown arena is constructed.
What about right now? Its necessary to replace the Coliseum, it can’t go on.
The County asked for a vote and it was allowed. The County doesn’t have to ask most of time if they want to raise taxes.
It’s County business to have events in whatever facility they own. It something they must do.
Re-vote does what again? Stop the county from being in the arena business?
We are far behind neighboring states and their arena facilities.
anonymous, I think the reason that the Clintons sent her to private school is because of security concerns. Are you talking about school vouchers? I don’t think that Senator Clinton is the only one against school vouchers. It amazes me why a person like yourself comes to Weblog and critizices Senator Clinton. People either love her or hate her, your comment do nothing to change peoples minds.
Mrage – what I have seen says 15,000 for basketball.
“Your future spending concern is very questionable after the downtown arena is constructed.”
Then why did they tell me they would have a $23,611,000 reserve for losses which they now will not have. BUT – I assume that when they come forward asking for that spending you will stand alongside me saying NO.
” Look at other cities, placing their arena’s.’
I have. They are usually removed from downtown and near an interstate. Driving time from MidContinent to the Coliseum is about 5 minutes longer than to the Arena site. Hardly a big deal.
We are going to get the Arena; I have no doubt of that. Who knows, I might even go to a UCLA sub-regional there but I doubt it. Not because I wouldn’t go but because it likely won’t happen.
As for other events? It all depends on what they have and what it costs. If nothing else, it will be interesting to see how it works out.
MRage writes sentences ike this:
“Your full of nonsense on the arena re-vote.”
He doesn’t even know the difference between “your” and “you’re.” This is not an isloated slip; he does this all the time.
He hasn’t even absorbed an elementary school education. Why anyone would listen to him and take anything he says seriously, is beyone me.
My understanding is that the proposed arena does NOT meet the saeting capacity requirements for an NCAA Regional game. If my (lousy) memory serves me, it would need to be able to seat 17,500 rabid Michigan(or OSU) fans to meet the minimum.
15,000 would seat all of the UCLA fans in the world, but it still would not qualify for a Regional.
We should ask ourselves why would any city build an arena that could not host a NCAA Tourney game?
Mrage,
It COULD be possible to put 17k seats in the arena IF they took out all of the VIP Boxes. If you see the diagrams of the arena on the county site, one entire side of the arena is taken up by VIP boxes….
Per the arena website: http://sedgwickcounty.org/communications/fast_facts/spectator%20facilities.pdf
20″ Seats – 7,20019″ Seats – 7,000If my math is correct, that’s 14,200 standard seats. Add another 896 “Premium Seats” (Club Boxes, Suites, etc…), that’s slightly over 15k seats.
So far, im not seeing where you get 17k there Mrage…
Another reason the arena needs to be re-voted on.Check out http://www.revotearena.com (not up yet, should be by Monday)
Also, per Google maps, from the airport to the KC is:18.4 mi (about 23 mins)from the airport to downtown:7.0 mi (about 13 mins)
from Andover to KC:18.7 mi (about 23 mins)from Andover to downtown:14.1 mi (about 22 mins)
Those times are “perfect conditions” type times. If we start taking into account the moronic ideas of converting all 1-way roads in downtown into 2-way streets, no parking and poor planning on existing streets.
Sedgwick county arena site:http://sedgwickcounty.org/arena/index.cfm
Wichita downtown revitizilation site:http://wichita.gov/CityOffices/Planning/AP/Comprehensive/ArenaPlan.htm
The arena is being designed 17,000 seats for basketball, believe that. 15,000 for hockey.
That’s JWink’s rant, arena is a hockey rink.
Having the arena downtown is more for people visiting Wichita and choosing a place to stay nearby. Teams or event participants would stay in hotel facility close to the arena.
What’s 54 if not a baby interstate. Their trying to make it that way, fewest stoplights as possible.
Kellogg has a better business/travel future than heading toward the Coliseum.
I don’t like the fence riding your doing on this topic. Your for it to improve Wichita but love the obstruction ideas, wanting people to re-vote.
Re-voting wastes time and people are wondering why its taking the County so long to start construction.
Until County bought all the buildings to tear down, they couldn’t count full potential of surface parking spaces.
Anyone complaining about parking is wasting air.
I’m for watching every penny spen and I’m not worried about the county finances in the future.
They estimated amounts in the reserve. Its gone, possibly. But that doesn’t mean future media partners or business supporters of the arena won’t make the reserve full again. Naming rights adds to the reserve.
A lot of business will have a vested interest in the arena staying busy.
Mrage
Check my above post about the ACTUAL numbers.
Tony,
I was provided that information from John Schlegal, city planning department.
Is the design finished? No! Its at a point of no going back because pre-construction forms have already started.
Your re-voting desire is a larger facility? That’s going to cost more money they are estimating right now.
“Naming rights adds to the reserve. ”
Who do you have lined up there Mrage for naming right to the arena????
Just an FYI here…
The sprint center is being built in Kansas City for 250 million for 18,000 to 20,000 seats.
Sprint is paying 2.5 Million PER YEAR for naming rights for 25 years. The decision to name the rights to the arena Sprint was completed long before ground was even broken. Before land acquisition was even completed.
So, again i ask? Why are we spending 250 million on a 15k seat arena with no naming rights sold yet???
“Your re-voting desire is a larger facility? That’s going to cost more money they are estimating right now. ”
Yes, i dont mind paying the taxes and the money IF THE PROJECT WAS CONSTRUCTED CORRECTLY…
Also, what does the city have to do with the COUNTY arena???
Me thinks you have a bad source for information… And IF your numbers are correct, than why isnt the county commission on the news telling us that we are wrong??? why isnt it on the website???
FYI, the size of the arena has decreased at least 3 times that i know of… it was billed as 18-20k at first, than 16-18, now we are at 15k…
Also, why is it that there is 11,300 sq ft of “premium seating” space??? why not replace that with another 1,600 seats???
Hold onto your shorts, I just got to meet GS.
And I’m still amazed, not at ALL what I expected. I’m telling you, she looks like a liberal!
She’s going to come shoot me for saying that hahaha.
Mrage – if the Arena is going to have 17,000 seats then why does the County say 15,000? Remember, as you have pointed out, this is a COUNTY project, not a CITY project.
Why does this one cost as much as the larger Sprint center? Where is the corporate support? Where is the “Sprint” to support it?
WSC – “15,000 would seat all of the UCLA fans in the world” – now I’m mad!!!!!! ;^)
KC has citizens who support the Royals upgrading facilities, Chiefs too.
Sprint Center replacing Kemper Arena. That was an ugly building according to many.
People there argreed to sales tax increases gladly.
It was big story, much publicity with Sprint signing on. Its a professional building desiring a NBA or NHL Hockey team. Museum space, an attraction being constructed.
We should have some of that belief. The Coliseum is a joke compared to neighboring states arena facilities.
You can’t say today, no corporation will name our arena. One will. It could be Spirit.
It could be Westar because Sedgwick County business pays more electricity to the utility than any other location. Demand they give something back by naming our arena. Supposedly they got funds to invest, if the executives aren’t stealing it.
I’ll believe what John Schlegal told me, than what you clipped from a webpage. He understood how “small” our arena is compared to the Sprint Center, but its not small as 15,000.
The final interior design hasn’t been approved.
I wish HOK voices would become the authority. Their design is being slammed and the arena seating shortened as a negative. The County politicans can’t speak well enough to defend it.
Ben,
Its a County building but the City planners have placement and size authority of that arena site. The City planners know exactly how big that facility will be.
“It could be Spirit.
It could be Westar”
Yea, and the moon COULD BE made of green cheese!
“I’ll believe what John Schlegal told me, than what you clipped from a webpage”
Go check the website Tony posted. IT IS THE SEDGWICK COUNTY ARENA WEBSITE! You know, the guys who are building the thing! Are you saying the County is lying? What is Schlegal’s authority over the County? How about a link to HIS comments refuting the County?
“The City planners know exactly how big that facility will be”
Then why does the County claim otherwise. Why are you calling the County a liar?
The Sprint Center is an 18K seat arena at an estimated construction cost of $275 million.
Our Arena is only $200 million and that includes 20 year reserve funds and $30 million for the Kansas Coliseum if needed.
Our arena will be paid for by the end of this year. Sales tax ends. Everything else from naming rights is all gravey.
KC’s will tack on dollars to hotel rooms, rental cars and a percent of each ticket sold forever, never to be reverted back. No gravey money and with strings attached to the sponser locked in.
Sprint could go bankrupt anytime. They are hurting bigtime, laying tens of thousands of people off and they moved their headquarters out of KC. It will be like Enron Field in Houston. What to do.
But KC’s got a good thing going. So do we! The majority of progressive minded people voted yea for our arena. :)
It’s going to be great! I’m excited. Can’t wait until it’s built.
Ben,
It was email, Ben. Believe me, when I write what John Schlegal said.
I’m for the County to take down that page because its not updated with the final design ideas or someone on the County staff to update it.
Tomorrow, you can write or call some people at the County to get newer specifics on the downtown arena.
There will be a corporate name chosen for the arena.
Mrage, I would suggest that you quit posting until you learn the difference between “they’re” and “their.”
People from outside Sedgwick County may read your posts, and they will conclude that we are all uneducated yokels.
You embarrass us all.
I suggest that we name the arena “Fred.”
Now, for you youngsters, I will help you with the reason that the arena should be named Fred.
In 1969, Jefferson Airplane released an album called Volunteers. On the album, there was a song named “We can be together.” If you know the song, you know the reason why I think the areana should be named Fred.
Hehehe, WSC–
Three guesses why “Uncle Williams” got so defensive when I blew the whistle (again) on lying blog bastard JM?
“Uncle William” claims he is a registered Dem, but it seems he forgot this post several days earlier:
“And ksfrmgrrl what made you think I vote Republican? Was it the mature manner in which I discussed my opinion?”
Posted by: UncleWilliam | February 28, 2007 at 10:02 AM
I’m surprised he didn’t come back as “Uncle Ben,” the black guy on the box of rice . . .
To DA, all the world’s issues can be solved via a song.
How many times have we seen that posted?
Back again, Homer? I thought you may have had enough of getting your butt kicked.
Oh, well. Carry on, Dave, just don’t breath on me, Fatso.
Oops. Looks like KSCheapShot is into his “primo” merlot again.
Someday he’ll move up to Strawberry Boone’s Farm, you know, after his palate matures . . .
Yes, using a song like that is just stupid.
I think that Boone’s Farm might be beyond, Dave’s budget, what with having to pay child support and so on.
My guess is that Nut is a big fan of Mad Dog 20/20.
Ben,
Don’t the Wiki folks try to be right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedgwick_County_Arena
BTW, I’m getting trolled right now.
When in doubt, click my nic.
Someone has stolen my typekey account. Don’t trust any posts made under CapnAmerica until I say it’s all clear to respond.
…damn trolls!
Mrage…
did you even see the bottom of the Wiki article:”According to The Wichita Eagle (October 12, 2006), the arena will seat 15,000.”
It also said that the arena would be home of the Stealth Football team… Umm… I know a player on the new team (not stealth, not sure of the new name now) but they have no plans of playing there unless their attendance rises as high as the thunder.
I’ll make you a deal there Mrage…
You publish your emails or get the county to publish or get the news stations to publish your imaginary numbers, than Ben and I will eat crow…
You can’t “steal” someone’s typekey account unless you know their password.
Everybody already knows that.
Well, I’m putting Jet Lee in the DVD player so I’m out for the evening.
Good night, and knock yerself out, troll boy.
“There will be a corporate name chosen for the arena.”
WHEN?
As for your rumors vs the County’s official web site … well I have to go with official. Who SPECIFICALLY do you propose I call? I’m not going to call the switchboard ans ask “Who will tell me the truth about the Arena?”
JOE! The 20-year reserve fund ($23,611,000) has been mostly eliminated due to cost over-runs.
As for Wiki – according to it “This article or section is about a planned or proposed arena.It may contain information of a speculative nature and the content may change dramatically as the construction and/or completion of the arena approaches.”
Again, I am going with the OFFICIAL COUNTY statements – 15,000 seats.
The Stealth Mrage? I thought they went away.
“It’s going to be great! I’m excited. Can’t wait until it’s built.”
On that I agree Joe – but for a VERY different reason.
Am I the only one who thinks the opening of that tomb looks like the masonic symbol?
I am spelling John Schlegel’s name wrong, excuse me.
Tony and Ben,
I just emailed Bob Lutz to get comments from an HOK representive. That’s who should be the authority spokesperson on the arena.
Ron Holt is the County administration, knowledge about how quickly land acquisition is happening. How much tax has been collected sorts of things. Doesn’t he have other County tasks to do.
Actual arena specifics should be announced by an HOK representative from now on. If their arena design is being attacked, they should defend it.
WHEN a corporate puts their name it…I guess someday when they complete the final arena design. It should happen this year when the tax ends.
Construction starts in October? I know its possible a corporate will name our arena, you speculate none ever will.
Joe is right about SPRINT, its a changed company, out of KC now since they agreed to name the Sprint Center.
Everybody in and around Wichita suffers from a Build-it-we’ll believe-it-then syndrome.
No amount of planning is proof to some people.
I pray the Stealth never come back. I can’t stand arena football.
Its a travesty when don’t have college football.
Ok Mrage…
“to get comments from an HOK representative. That’s who should be the authority spokesperson on the arena.”
HOK? HOK is a management company, not a design company… The County is building the arena and the consulting group is designing the arena…
You still have not produced credible evidence as to your imaginary numbers.
I await your evidence. You at least name drop well…
Mrage,
FYI the new owner of the Stealth will have a season this year… I dont know the new name off the top of my head but they said they will play again at the ice sports building.
Wichita Wild, thats the indoor football name now…
http://www.bizjournals.com/search/bin/search?q=%22Wichita%20Wild%22&t=wichita
This is really sad, the commentator said it’s porn what the Jesus tomb is doing. And that deep down in his heart, he doesn’t believe it.
Mrage – the Stealth was from YOUR reference, not mine.
If you claim that the County is lying on their web site then perhaps you should suggest that they change it. But, until the County changes their OFFICIAL site I cannot take rumors as being more credible. Perhaps Mr. Holt should ask Mr Holt why HIS site says 15,000 seats. And by the way, I know who Holt is – he is the guyresponsible for Tony’s linked site.
“Actual arena specifics should be announced by an HOK representative from now on. If their arena design is being attacked, they should defend it.”
Then tell them to do so and tell the County to butt out.
“No amount of planning is proof to some people.” Speak for yourself. I am READING the official COUNTY PLANS – THEY SAY 15,000.
” WHEN a corporate puts their name it…I guess someday when they complete the final arena design. It should happen this year when the tax ends.” So, by 12/31/2007? I’ll be watching. And Wichita SHOCKERS University? I’ll be watching … but not holding my breath.
Tony,
Don’t get silly. HOK is defined as an architecture design company.
http://www.hoksve.com/sport/about/locations/locationKC.htm
Turner Construction from KC usually is aligned with them building the facilities.
County is administrating the project, monetarily.
You can wait patiently for the arena seating numbers like the rest of us.
Bob Lutz publicly promotes the arena, hates Dee Stuart making noise, lets hope he get on that story finding an HOK spokesperson.
Its larger seating that 15,000. How can it be announced in few places as 17,000, everyone is wrong but the County website.
Wiki acknowledged that it was speculative and that other reports said 15,000. I haven’t seen any credible 17,000 “a few places”? The County website is the OFFICIAL one. Do you claim they are lying? Maybe you better get your friend Holt on the line tomorrow and tell him to quit lying!
I just heard a rumor that it will have only 738 seats. Should that take precedence over all official information?
Ben,
San Jose State University, in California, students there want to change their college name. It takes enough student signatures and a “court” hearing on campus where administrations have to defend the name.
They want University ofCalifornia-San Jose.
University of California-Fresno is the proper name while the sports program continues to use Fresno State .
Defense includes cost of changing logo or tradition.
Wichita State in their tradition used WuShock. Stalk of wheat character created, describing what people called Wheatshockers did to make money. Working in a wheat field. Their goal was to become a “State” university back then.
I’m hearing a Wichita State commercial on TV right now. At http://www.wichita.edu. There will be no change at the website link.
WSU can easily be renamed Wichita Shockers University without much effort.
Students will be guided to a marketing study, how branding could be made more specific and personal by changing WSU to Wichita Shockers University.
A more personal named college to represent the city. The Chamber will like it.
City of Wichita stands out proudly in the college name, better.
Wichita Shockers University vs Wichita State University, only some are Shockers? People wonder why the WuShock character is a Shocker? He’s nothing but a wheat character.
The college is all about being a Shocker. They were real people.
“University of California-Fresno is the proper name while the sports program continues to use Fresno State.” I don’t think so. It is Cal State University Fresno. My nephew played football there.
I went to Michigan State U ‘way back when’ – we were the Spartans. But, it was not Michigan Spartan University. And it ain’t gonna be Wichita Shockers University either. Ain’t gonna happen.
I’m marking my calendar for 12/31/2007 to name the Arena. What is the date for the announcement of W Shockers U? I want to mark the date.
I know WSU fairly well – 2 degrees from there.
I don’t know Ron Holt, but its pretty evident he’s not the proper arena design defender.
Dee and others complain about the arena design, HOK has to defend it.
Mrage – then perhaps you shouldn’t be so freely name-dropping with his name. IF you are correct about the size; if your RUMORS are valid; then SOMEBODY is LYING! Either is is your rumors that are false or it is the county’s official position that is lying. Didn’t YOU name him as the county’s Arena point man? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
I will check the County site tomorrow and see if they “correct” their OFFICIAL information. Perhaps your rumor source should do the same and/or contact the County and get it changed.
Your right about that…Cal State University-Fresno. San Jose State students want that too. Cal State University-San Jose.
The thing is, some want a name change and it happens at some colleges.
There is a process for it. Democracy, people vote. At WSU eventually they will vote on it.
Two Degrees or millions of dollars given to the WSU, it doesn’t matter. I know generations of people that went to WSU. I was there in the 80’s. What matters is future goals of the college.
Mark your calendar for fall of 2008, like we first discussed.
I think it can change that fast. The WE ARE WICHITA STATE promoters could get behind it. They are marketing the University name. If a better marketing way is available why wouldn’t they take it?
WE ARE SHOCKERS works just as well. WE ARE SHOCKERS at WICHITA SHOCKERS UNIVERSITY.
Your Spartans situation doesn’t relate to this.
Mrage.
Ron Holt has publicly stated that he is the front man for the arena project.
Per the COUNTY WEBSITE:”Sedgwick County Arena Project Team Leader: Ron Holt, Assistant County Manager”
Straight from the site. http://sedgwickcounty.org/arena/fact_sheets/steering%20team%20members.pdf
Ok Mrage… We are still waiting for EVIDENCE!
Until then, im done debating with you.
I will send out emails to various people involved in the arena to get clarification tomorrow to prove you wrong.
As for naming rights, there are only two companies dumb enough to buy naming rights on the arena, Cox and AT&T. I dont see any other company wasting money on this type of useless purchase.
WICHITA SHOCKERS UNIVERSITY…
Will NEVER happen!!!
I listed what Ron Holt does for the County, how is that name dropping.
Your free to contact anyone at the County, they answer the phone. Ask for webmaster of their site. Ask if the arena information is correct and updated.
You can ask for Ron Holt, don’t know when he might call or email you back. The media talks to him for arena updates.
I want an HOK spokesperson talking because your wanting design information!
We should have a HOK representative.
Tony,
Prove me wrong means what? I’m wrong for wanting a 17,000 seat arena?
What you think might happen, means nothing.
What I try to make happen is a different process.
Again, it better represents name of the college and I’m “wrong” to desire it?
“We should have a HOK representative.”
Thenyou go get one. Tell him to tell us that Holt is lying. Even though Holt is the County’s point man on this.
YOU are the one calling them liars, not me. Until I am told otherwise by an OFFICIAL source it is 15,000.
You say I should call Holt. Should I tell him you are calling him a liar?
A date for W Shockers U? So I can mark my calendar.
You are not necessarily wrong for wanting it; it just ain’t gonna happen. Not in our lifetime.
I will check the County website tomorrow. If it is lying as claimed I am sure they will correct it.
KAKE does INDEED have a poll on an arena revote.
My cranky browser won’t let me vote OR see the results.
CLEARLY the need for a thread is demonstrated by the traffic here.
And the Jesus tomb. I now believe that Jesus son of Joseph was a real person. But clearly, he did not ascend bodily to heaven.
Ben,
You can drop the term “liar” already. Its information and somewhere a mistake is made.
Talk to Holt or anybody, don’t name drop me. I’m calling no one a liar.
I’ve talked to HOK years ago and their lawyer emailed me back saying they couldn’t help build a new stadium for WSU to play football in. The guys there in KC were okay on the phone, respectually trying to understand what I was talking about.
They didn’t understand why the city of Wichita wasn’t helping WSU to bring football back. I said politics are weird down here.
WSU renaming vote could happen in 2008, fall. Why have a vote linger more than a semester. December 2008 if its promoted as a choice, August of 2008.
More amazing things than a name change happen. Its simply a name improvement, happens all the time.
There is a difference between 15K seating and 17K capacity.
It just depends on what the use. Many arenas will use seating capacity to inflate the actual permanent seating in the arena.
Our arena will be at minimum 15K permenant seating. It has the capacity to seat a few thousand more, especially for concerts.
Joe
Besure you quantify your 15k numbers in that its 14,200 permant seats with another 800 “Premium Seats”.
I believe, (i went looking but couldnt find a source, yet) that to gain a NCAA tournment, the requirement is 18k fixed seats, not including premium seats.
My biggest issue with the arena is not the idea of an arena, but the implementation and plans of the arena.
Issue 1: The arena is being designed AS AN ARENA, not a convention center. This city needs a convention center twice as large as Century II.
Issue 2: It is not being designed to physically attach to another facility near by, i.e. a hotel/convention facility (John Q Hammons speculating a hotel connected to the Arena similar to what he did in Topeka).
Issue 3: All of the extra expense being brought into this, things like Road expansion that I was calling for as part of the project. After all of the extra expenses the project will run over 400 million…
Issue 4: NO public backers. NO naming rights sold yet, not even a speculation.
Issue 5: Its not being built big enough, it needs to be a min 18k seats, prefer 20k, PLUS PREMIUM SEATS.
Issue 6: Parking. There is enough parking in downtown anyway. The city/county says there are surface lots to use for events, business do NOT have to allow the general public to use their lots. I hope they charge people $25 per car.
They (county/city) should have planed a larger facility that stretches from Emporia to Kellogg, Topeka to the Tracks. The complex should have a 20k seat arena, a million sq ft convention center, parking garage, couple of resturants, etc… and hotel/convention center. Half of that could be built by a private developer.
Anyway, there are my issues, feel free to rebut.
That is one thing I do agree with you on. The Arena should be larger.
Skyboxes should be built as shells and then sold (like condominiums). Buyers could then finish them as they see fit. That would remove that portion of cost from the budget.
Joe! You claim a 30-year reserve fund and $30 million for the Coliseum. Lets look at some numbers:
From Arena campaign, Sept 1 2004, Sedgwick County … working for you:
“We know from researching Arenas … that we must plan for operating deficits … initial plan provided for … $30 million. … was reduced to $23,611,000.
Parking and Infrastructure – $19,400,000
Kansas Coliseum complex … improvements … $9,128,000
*********************************
pdf file copied from Sedg County website December 2006:
Parking/Operating and Maintenance Reserve – $14,610,420
KS Ciliseum … improvements – $7,818,694.
*********************************
Note that all of these items have been reduced substantially while the total has risen from $184,528,000 to $201,023,999.
These pdf files are available for review if you like. They were published by Sedgwick County. They came from the County Manager’s Office.
Oh, and the advertisement states “15,000 fixed seats (allowing more seats for concerts) … to enhance the Old Town entertainment district.
I have a mechanism to provide the necessary subsidies without looking to the ordinary taxpayer for the funds. Since its purpose is stated as “to enhance … Old Town” establish a tax benefit district.
Tony,
Let’s stick with the arena, as it is. We need to replace the Coliseum.
I would like the arena to have 17,000 permanent seats. 18,000, sure, anymore than that, no. Not for this market without a NBA or NHL team.
Century II still exists as our convention center for now.
If City gov could sell The Hyatt, Library building, give interior redevelopment of Century II to a Casino group…they might have money to build a new convention center, larger, some location downtown.
If a hotel developer is out there, they have to wait a few years. New hotel with a convention center attached to it.
Imagine where it could be today. Don’t consider just open land either.
Hotel is not going to attached to the arena.
Don’t hate the arena just because of that. If its not big enough, we can all complain, but its not worth saying we should re-vote.
You could get a new convention center some day, be patient.
Its been 20 years and I’m now desiring to see football return at WSU.
But its finally the right time to build a new stadium because we are replacing the Coliseum.
We need another place to have “dirt” shows. Today’s stadiums can do a variety of events. Combine Cessna stadium and the Coliseum events in one facility.
It can’t really be talked about politically until the downtown arena is finished.
So be patient, it may happen.
City must figure what to do with Century II before they can consider to build a new one. Invite a hotel developer in on that project.