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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted March 26, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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52 Comments
An interesting piece…———
[quote]The Reason We Have to Fight
By MICHAEL COREN
Imagine a history book being read by people in 100 years time. In a chapter entitled, Why We Fought, it would list the crimes of an ideology and a movement, Islamic fundamentalism, that became so powerful and so grotesque in the opening years of the 21st century that the civilized world was obliged to resist.
The book would explain that some of the wars of resistance were unsuccessful, or even ill-advised, but that in the end the forces of light triumphed over the death-black darkness.
It would also recount how some people in the civilized world opposed the struggle, out of self-loathing, cowardice, leftist politics or simply because they were part of the jihadist movement.
But right always wins in the end, the readers would be reminded, and did so in this great culture war. Because the crimes were as many as they were devilish.
They beheaded Christian girls in Indonesia who were making their way to school. They stopped them at gunpoint, forced them to kneel down and then cut off their heads, the blood drenching their tiny uniforms.
They planted bombs in places of worship that belonged to their own Muslim faith, murdering scores of people who they knew to be innocent, apolitical and intent only on worshipping and praying. They demanded that others respect Mosques but simultaneously used them as killing fields.
They murdered 150,000 of their own people in Algeria in an attempt to destabilize their government. Often they would slit the throats of children in front of their parents before in turn killing those horrified mothers and fathers.
In Iraq they kidnapped people who had devoted their lives to helping the impoverished and the abused, tied those good people up like animals and then tortured and humiliated them. They videotaped their screams and their wild pleas for mercy and help and then slowly cut off their heads with a knife, holding the severed object up to the cameras.
They pulled organs from within the bodies of their victims and offered them to children, then ran away with severed limbs as if they were treasured trophies.
In Lebanon they dragged badly wounded co-religionists from their hospital beds and beat them to death on the street. Many of these men had been their allies only days before. In northern Israel they kidnapped families and forced fathers to watch their tiny sons having their brains literally beaten out of their heads on the rocks.
They declared their intention to target children because, they said, they knew their enemies valued children most of all and loved life. For them, they boasted, death was more important than life. They vomited this philosophy all over the world, in Africa, Asia, Europe, North America and Australia.
They indoctrinated their own children and taught them to hate and loathe and lust for blood and death. They bombed schools, mosques, churches, hospitals, crowds of children asking for candy, old people’s homes, funeral possessions.
They despised progress, freedom, grace, gentleness, empathy, tolerance, civilization, truth, thought, understanding, joy, laughter and love. They hated humanity and they hated God.
That, the readers would be told, was why we fought. And that is why we fight. Because if we genuinely care about all that is fine and grand and important we have no choice.[end quote]
“They despised progress, freedom, grace, gentleness, empathy, tolerance, civilization, truth, thought, understanding, joy, laughter and love. They hated humanity and they hated God.”
GSheridan, what does that sound familiar? :)
what=why does that sound familiar?
So, if Marion County Kansas can pass a resolution to charge every person who is arrested and put into their jail $11.75 per day; did they just solve a problem or start a bigger one?
Thinkfirst – neither. It won’t stop folks from committing infractions, but it WILL save taxpayers some money.
Ya just gotta love the Made In China tag…
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2007
More Wichita trivia I don’t know or can’t remember the answer to from a guy with a sick fascination with movie theaters:
Either on north Hillside (I’m pretty sure) or maybe north Oliver there was once a drive-in theater (I’m pretty sure it was north of 21st, south of 53rd, but I can’t remember which street). It was closed by the mid-70’s, exactly where was it, what’s there now and what was it called?
GS – That might be what the history books write… And it will be partially right… but only partially… Because it wont say why we thought we could CHANGE their belief system… and because it wont say that their belief system has always been a violent one…
In addition, GS, it wont ask the big question of WHY we didnt declare war on another Islamic nation that is also violent in its religious beliefs, and also provided the biggest number of 9/11 terrorists… Because we decided the Saudi’s were our allies… I guess that one bothers me a LOT…
Resources for brainy offspring and adults too!
Here’s what NASA really thinks:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Laboratory/PlanetEarthScience/GlobalWarming/GW_toc.html
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global_warming_worldbook.html
Chas – good points, but I don’t see this about declaring war on any nation, specifically, but on a ‘thought system’ that is spreading cult hatred.
Why should we NOT think we should attempt to change their belief system? Belief systems have been systematically changed since the beginning of time through necessity, economics or through the conquering of a people.
AT one time here in the US – there was a belief system in place that thought women were witches – and burned a number of them.
We changed that – the world became a slightly better place.
We fought the anti-semitic belief system of WWI – and won that one. The world became a slightly better place.
If we take on and beat radical Islam – the same will happen.
And we will ALL be better off.
OK… If we are going to declare war on a “thought system” then we better be training some good scholars and theologians, to convince them of their errors…
And I am not so sure we stopped the anti-semitic views of WWII, we just call them different names now… Many fundamentalist Christians still dont believe Jewish people should be allowed to have their beliefs, because they dont accept Jesus…
A LOT of changes need to happen… perhaps the biggest is that we all have a RIGHT to our own religious beliefs… but not to FORCE those beliefs on others who are not interested…
Islam and Christianity have been the two biggest violators of that RIGHT in the entire world…
Look at what Christian missionaries did in Central/South America, and Africa, and even Hawaii… Somehow, we have always managed to sweep those instances under the carpet… But if Islam does the same thing, we call it a “violent cult”… which I agree it certainly can be… But, many of us who are Christians, also have a similar background…
In other words, can you say, “We have a huge problem here” boys and girls?? It wont go away with guns, and warfare, I guess thats what I want to convey here… It will take a LOT more than guns, and warfare… And I dont have the magic answers… anymore than anybody else does…
We need some Wise Ones who can lead us…
Chas – I agree. Radical fundamentalism needs to be eradicated wherever it exists.
Yes, Christians have a similar background, but they have been proactively changing it for the better for the past four hundred years.
Fundamental Islam, however, is not changing yet to such a degree that it is acceptable in our world.
Therein lies the difference.
I don’t care if Opus Dei decides Jews are going to Hell. I DO care if they decide to speed them on their way…..
Perhaps it WILL take more than guns and warfare, Chas, but until someone comes up with the magic solution – we need to take the necessary steps to halt its growth at present.
Sitting on one’s hands and worrying won’t help us.
And throughout history, oftentimes, it was the guns and warfare that effected the desired changes.
That was the Terrace Drive-in on north Hillside.
Chas.
When your house is on fire is not the time to decide that we should figure out a better way to store the oily rags in the basement.
We have changed the culture of many nations over history. The Japanese use to be a very militaristic nation that thought ther Emperor was devine. We changed that a little.
Right now, because of our foriegn policies for the last 60 years we are locked in a battle; cultural, religious, or whatever you want to call it; we can ignore the people in the world that want to kill us but our choice is now…..convert to Islam or die.
Or, maybe….fight!
Another interesting article about support of “counter-insurgency”:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/03/25/ryan-beiler-evangelicals-and-the-el-mozote-massacre/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beliefnet.com%2Fblogs%2Fgodspolitics%2F2007%2F03%2Fryan-beiler-evangelicals-and-el-mozote.html&frame=true
Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero, who was murdered 27 years ago tomorrow, was a shining example of that kind of faith, which can also get you killed. Below are the final paragraphs of the homily delivered the day before his death at the hands of assassins, two of whom received training at the U.S. Army School of the Americas:
I would like to appeal in a special way to the men of the army, and in particular to the troops of the National Guard, the Police, and the garrisons. Brothers, you belong to our own people. You kill your own brother peasants; and in the face of an order to kill that is given by a man, the law of God should prevail that says: Do not kill! No soldier is obliged to obey an order counter to the law of God. No one has to comply with an immoral law. It is time now that you recover your conscience and obey its dictates rather than the command of sin. The Church, defender of the rights of God, of the law of God, of the dignity of the human person, cannot remain silent before so much abomination.
We want the government to seriously consider that reforms mean nothing when they come bathed in so much blood. Therefore, in the name of God, and in the name of this long-suffering people, whose laments rise to heaven every day more tumultuous, I beseech you, I beg you, I command you in the name of God: Cease the repression!
Ryan Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners/Call to Renewal.posted by God’s Politics @ 12:26 PM | Permalink | Comments (11)
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“”It cannot be production to generate profits for one person or a small group of people that become rich exploiting peons who end up becoming slaves, living in poverty and misery their entire lives,” he said.”
No, this quote isn’t from one of our Lib friends on this blog. It’s from Hugo Chavez, but it does sound familiar, doesn’t it?
“The boycott has gone well. However, it is disappointing to see our own posting over there under multiple nics.”
Fisting with Fury falling fast, friends.
>>If we take on and beat radical Islam – the same will happen.And we will ALL be better off.<< Posted by: fleettwood
HaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
“If we take on and beat radical Islam – the same will happen.
And we will ALL be better off.
Posted by: GSheridan | March 26, 2007 at 08:28 AM”
Dear kcdope:While I agree with the post by GS, I didn’t write it.
Fleet writes:{”The boycott has gone well. However, it is disappointing to see our own posting over there under multiple nics.”)————-
Is that REALLY what they said, Fleet? ROFLMAO
“It’s going good……but….
LOL
I only went over there once, the second or third day they were there, but it was same ol, same ol.
At that time they thought their board was still a big secret.
The simple fact is – their boycott failed…miserably. They intended to hurt the WEBlog with their demands, and like most organized groups (kinda like unions) they thought they were indispensable.
They were wrong, of course. What I heard was that all of this came from one single person – a person that was so bogged down in his own mud wrestling that he was surprised when the tables turned on him – and he tried to surround himself with like-minded individuals to stave off the inevitable; the recognition that he, himself, was a major cause of disruption.
I’m glad to have Ben And Vaughn and some of the others back. They were always a boon to the board.
But I don’t miss the slams and hypocrisy, although some of that is also filtering back by the posters who hide their identity.
You know what this reminds me of?
It reminds me of the radical Islamicists that hide behind their face masks. Obviously they are not proud of their actions, if they refuse to take responsibility for them – and they know they are wrong.
I heard some have vowed to never come back. Any truth to that?
Chas,
Christians might have a so called similar background, but we are not talking about what happened hundreds of years ago.
We are talking about what is happening now.
Thank you all! There have been some interesting comments this morning, some differences of opinions…but not one slur/slam/insult or childish outburst.
It is really refreshing to visit this blog again!
THANK YOU!!
You are such an idiot raptor!!!
;->
“I have no problem with people crossing this “picket line” heheheeh. I do have a problem with them hiding it under mutiple nics, and them thinking we are not as smart as they are, and we wont know who they are.
Get real. NO ONE is perfect in hiding their writing styles. Sooner or later, it appears.”
More from the Fractured Fisting with Fury Fanatics, folks.
Some good news:
Study: Chocolate aids blood vesselsNEW ORLEANS — Feeding chocolate to a bunch of middle-age, overweight people for weeks on end may not be as unhealthy as it seems.
Researchers found that six weeks of daily consumption of a dark chocolate cocoa mix significantly improved the blood vessel health of those who participated in the study.
The study is the latest in a growing number that link reduced heart disease risk to flavonoids in dark chocolate and other food and beverages, such as red wine, green tea and dark-colored fruits and vegetables.
http://www.kansas.com/219/story/28718.html
Ah great!
The boy brought us some chocolate home from Germany!
He might have saved my life!
Hank
Umm Nathan, I dont know if abortion clinic bombers, and the Phelps clan qualify as “hundreds of years ago” and the gay bashers of the religious right along with them… I think there is still plenty of Radical so-called “christianity” right in our midst…
Chas,
The abortion clinic bombers? You mean the number I can count on my hands? Give me a break.
Gay bashers? Are you talking about those who call homosexuality a sin or those who actually bash homosexuals physically?
Get some perspective. Calling a homosexuals lifestyle choice immoral is not the same as me chopping the head off of an supposed infidel.
Chas,
Please show me all these radical Christians going around killing people or raping muslim women for being muslim.
“The simple fact is – their boycott failed…miserably.”
Number of posts Saturday and Sunday after boycott:
Ten threads = 451 posts
Number of posts Saturday and Sunday before boycott:
Ten threads = 670 posts.
The number of posts is down by a full third.
Number of nasty posts down 100%Priceless.
“High Fives” Fleetwood!
LOCAL BLOGGER GIVEN ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION BY ACCIDENT.
“Thought I was getting a vitamin shot”, declares Republicant, as the forth month is showing big time.
Posted by: J M Walker | March 26, 2007 at 11:54 AM
J M WALKER SEEKS LOST BOOTS – A herd of awkwardly walking Sheep seen near I-135 wearing mud boots.
Posted by: Republican | March 26, 2007 at 12:05 PM
No nasty posts here, nah, none at all.
99% loser. Oops, 98%
I guess Mr. Blank didn’t read the topic title.”Dubious, bogus and utterly phony headlines”
Sense of humor anyone? anyone? :)
Shouldn’t you be on the other blog. Julie needs some cooking advise.
“Number of nasty posts down 100%Priceless.”
—-
I cannot quit laughing. Priceless, indeed.
Funny how some sneak over and post under different names, but then others, self-appointed boycott monitors sneak over and try to determine who’s who among rogue posters.
I’m seriously going to pee my pants from laughing if this gets any funnier.
By now I figured they would have moved on – or came back openly as some of the smarter ones did.
I wonder if the boycott ringleader remembers that he told me my first day on this blog – that I wouldn’t last a week, and he bragged about running off another conservative just before I got here. But I’m still standing, after all his attempts to destroy me….and he’s gone? I wonder if he ever thinks of that……
I keep seeing references to a great schism sometime prior to my arrival here. And several times people have seemed to indicate that I’m some old-timer who has adopted a new persona. I haven’t responded to any of this before because it seemed pointless to refute it. I didn’t know what they were talking about and would anyone believe me anyway? So I gamely plowed ahead, trying to stay on topic. But now that I marginally “know” a few people here I’m curious to know who they used to interact with. Is there a seperatist blog somewhere? Anyone got a link to the ex-pats?
Finally, let me assure anyone who may care that I am Condor and none other. Condor is and always has been my only online persona.
22 WAYS TO BE A GOOD DEMOCRAT
1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.
2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.
3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. Nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists.
4. You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding.
5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth’s climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV’s.
6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.
7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.
8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can’t teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
9. You have to believe that hunters don’t care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do.
10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.
11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make The Passion of the Christ for financial gain only.
12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.
13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.
14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison & A.G. Bell.
15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.
16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice person.
17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn’t worked anywhere it has been tried is because the right people haven’t been in charge.
18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and a sex offender belonged in the White House.
19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.
20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese Government is somehow in the best interest of the United States.
21. You have to believe that it’s okay to give Federal workers the day off on Christmas Day but it’s not okay to say “Merry Christmas.”
22. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing conspiracy.
Condor – welcome.
New faces are always appreciated.
Yes, there is a separatist blog, and forgive me, but I only visited once and then lost the link. Another member here will be able to provide although, I’m sure.
Some left here a few weeks ago – as part of a boycott against the WEBlog for something or other. Not really sure why. But when they were here – they clashed with the ones here now.
Or perhaps the ones here now, clashed with them…irregardless, they left and gave a list of demands to the board owners.
The board owners ignored them, and gradually, they have been trickling back here. I guess the ones who want to come back are afraid the ‘big bossies’ from the boycott will be mad – so they are taking on new names. But then they start talking about events that happened much earlier – and they blow their cover.
I say they should all just come back – openly and honestly.
We can put them on probation.
lol
Think the shrub might qualify after he’s out ‘o office?
If you are in eager to relieve yourself but fail to find a toilet in Wuhan, Hubei, you can ask a special toilet guide to show you the way, the Changjiang Commercial News reported.
However, there are no free lunches. The service costs 3 jiao (3.8 cents) per time.
Special toilet guide has become a new profession in Wuhan The city has reportedly hired at least 10 such toilet guides. They are distinguishable by their red armbands. The special toilet guides, who can earn up to 10 yuan ($1.29) a day, mainly patrol the city’s busy areas and scenic spots.
IT could be I just need to take a break and lower my frustration level. Or that I have become so disillusion with my fellow Americans that I feel that it is time to give up on the issues. Those that boycott were not wanting to destroy the WE blog but want to improve it so real thoughts and answers could be discussed. They saw a problem and only wanted to have their voices heard without automatically be attack not for the view they expressed but because they do not belong to a certain club. The name calling and the personal put down come from both sides. Some generated by a long held general hatred for the other side and some in reaction to the assaults they have suffered from the other side. But today I see some of what is faced by those that are returning “What is the boycott over?”. Talk of failure in the attempt to change things they saw as wrong and implying it was nothing more then a childish “hissy fit”.
Gloating over someone’s return when in the last few weeks there has been expressions of missing some and even missing the discord. The greatest form of resolution is allowing one’s enemy to save face. Hold to their honor even in defeat, even the most wrong thinking will agree to a defeat if allowed a honorable way out in time.
I have noticed the absence of e-mails in my box after daily e-mails, this after several mentions of there being a “snitch” a “spy” among the ranks. I stand for my country, I stand for what I see as right no matter who is right. I choose not to be a boycotter because I thought perhaps someone should be here to express a different view. In hope that I could interject a voice that did not express hatred and blind distrust simply because someone had a “D” on their voters card. I wanted to demonstrate to the other side that because someone has a “R” on their voters card did not mean that they put the party above the country in a time of real threat.
I choose not to go to the “other” blog because I did not want to give up on the fight. I would have been welcome, but now suspect my presents would have been more questioned then trusted. Whether Democrat or Republican I now see that both may enjoy the taste of their young.
As I said perhaps I am just tired and need to rest for the feeling of frustration at seeing more anger and distrust of fellow Americans then there seem to be of the terrorists.If this was a short term spat it would be one thing, but it seem we have been doing the job of Bin Laden longer then he has.
Until we meet again,Writerdog….
welcome back wd … and regards to Mrs wd.
I noticed the same things you did.
GS,Great story! so forget he have a liar leading us into this war for profit, forget the reason we were told we were to go to war, because now four years later we have good one, a true reason right. Forget what happen that day on 9/11 and who did it to us. I guess our enemies will watch us attack some other Muslim faith country and learn. Huh! My problem is the leadership; there is a war to be fought but this admin. was and is blinded by money, and power. Bush let obl walk and now he doesn’t even think about him. That may sit well with you but not with me. And as bush’s and your war for money kill woman and children we are changing their way of think huh! Yes there are many in this world that see us different now! I am guessing not for the better. I don’t think you will find but maybe 1% of Americans that think we should not have went to war with Afghanistan. Could not that war for which you are talking about be fought there? Somehow Iraq is a better place. Huh! I think you would be wrong to say yes it is.
The strident certainty of some around here is kind of troubling. Thinking is not always a matter of certainty that your delusions are correct.
You folks need to think.
Sorry. It kind of sucks to be around here…
“irregardless” – is not a word… sheesh some of you are really dumb…
From Merriam Webster ——–Main Entry: ir·re·gard·lessPronunciation: “ir-i-’gärd-l&sFunction: adverbEtymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardlessnonstandard : REGARDLESSusage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose.————-
Darn – I guess some folks are just ‘really dumb…’
ROFLMAO
Writerdog – the best thing I can say in response to your post – is that you may be blessed with the ability to take people at face value. That’s not a bad thing. You said, “They saw a problem and only wanted to have their voices heard without automatically be attack not for the view they expressed but because they do not belong to a certain club.”
Were that only true, writerdog, but the evidence suggests it isn’t. They are the makers of “the club.” Those who organized the boycott and gave their list of ‘demands’ to WEBlog could have easily taken the first step towards a more civil discussion by not attacking. But the truth is – up until the VERY instant they left – they continued with their vitriol. I fear you have missed a lot in the way of ‘lead up’ to this incident.
Believability. They didn’t possess it going in – and with the nic-switchers now, fire-bombing threads, they STILL don’t possess it.
Yes, they made a mistake. Problem is, they’re still making it.
I actually welcomed them back – openly, but the VERY folks that have made an issue out of lack of civility on this board, are now sneaking around and posting anonymous ‘bombs.’ Not all of them, obviously, and that’s why those who rejoin the fray in an honest manner are always welcomed heartily.
Vaughn Tolle, Ben Huie, and others were not attacked upon their return. They are seen in a good light. Of course, they were not the instigators in this failed affair, either. They just went along, in the spirit of cooperation, until it became evident that it was counter-productive.
Certainly, if your emails stopped because there was a ’snitch,’ you realize that their agenda was not above-board.
Contrary to what you assert, my friend, that DOES exist in the realm of “hissy fit.”
When folks start snitching, it’s because they feel no solidarity for one reason or another.
To try and lend credibility to a ‘movement’ that was hypocritical from the get-go is akin to dragging that dead pony out into the corral and beating it…..it just ain’t gonna get up and run.
“The greatest form of resolution is allowing one’s enemy to save face. Hold to their honor even in defeat, even the most wrong thinking will agree to a defeat if allowed a honorable way out in time.”
So very, very true. But this point has not yet been reached, COLLECTIVELY, but for those who have come back, this has been the way they were treated.
But for the ones who continue this ill-advised action, the ‘battle’ is not over. It is not wise to extend an olive branch when it will be ripped from your grasp, is it?