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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted March 23, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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74 Comments
Recently I had a discussion with a co-worker about the history channel, he stated that you could not believe everything that is on that channel and you can not count of anything to do with history. It got me thinking about some of the topics and thought expressed here. If the truth is relent as to how you see it, facts are nothing more then a talking point that is used to support your position. That history has little bases in the facts and truth and is more just a story told by those who win the battle.
I can see why nothing is counted on anymore, why the younger generation feels that school is a waste of time and nothing matters. What would be the point in learning anything if it changes every few years?
writerdog: Unfortunately that attitude is present in too many students today.
True, history books are adjusted with passage of time to include new information that history researchers find. Even mathematic books are changed to include new emphasis for math needed for work with computers, etc. Most textbooks now include lots of photos, color, side bars, easy indexes, reference sets for teachers to use to teach the course.
But your general thesis that learning is a waste of time because information changes is a lazy person’s excuse not to learn.
Recently I overheard a student, working in a McDonalds, tell a similar story that it was a waste of time to learn very much. The student ended with the statement that it didn’t matter anyway because he/she was going to be a half-time surgeon and half-time lawyer so would make all that money without learning in school! I didn’t waste my time asking “how?”
I have come to the conclusion the difference between learners and non-learners is not natural intelligence but the following single word: MOTIVATION.
writerdog: Unfortunately that attitude is present in too many students today.
True, history books are adjusted with passage of time to include new information that history researchers find. Even mathematic books are changed to include new emphasis for math needed for work with computers, etc. Most textbooks now include lots of photos, color, side bars, easy indexes, reference sets for teachers to use to teach the course.
But your general thesis that learning is a waste of time because information changes is a lazy person’s excuse not to learn.
Recently I overheard a student, working in a McDonalds, tell a similar story that it was a waste of time to learn very much. The student ended with the statement that it didn’t matter anyway because he/she was going to be a half-time surgeon and half-time lawyer so would make all that money without learning in school! I didn’t waste my time asking “how?”
I have come to the conclusion the difference between learners and non-learners is not natural intelligence but the following single word: MOTIVATION.
Sorry about the double-posting above. I e-mailed the EAGLE to remove one of them. JWink
I view the History Channel as entertainment not as an authoritative source.
Having traveled to many historic sites I can assure you that the Historians present differ even from what the textbooks contribute.
I had one History Professor tell me that there is really no such thing as history. He said that History is just an interpretation of the past. As years pass, it becomes more revisionist.
That’s why letters, diaries and contemporaneous books become so valuable to the era talked about.
Uh-Oh….
Someone FINALLY said it; what I have been thinking for the past couple of years:
GLOBAL WARMING HAS BECOME A RELIGION!!!
And now, adherents of this religion, much like the Inquisitors of old, are issuing DEATH THREATS against some who would speak out against it. Are we sinking into another Dark Ages? This time led by pseudo-science that seeks to control and subvert?
Czech President Vaclav Klaus actually said this:
[quote]“‘Communism has been replaced by the threat of an ambitious environmentalism,’ Klaus wrote in response to questions from the U.S. House of Representatives’ Committee on Energy and Commerce.”[end quote]
More here:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070321-0538-czech-environment-.html
I think part of the problem is that it use to be that “facts” stood for some lengthy periods of time.i.e. the world is flat, the sun revolves around the Earth and such…taking hundreds of year for information and learning to be changed. But look at the uproar over Evolution Verses I.D. though Evolution is still taught there has been quite a bit of attention given to the subject of I.D. to the point. That even though it is still taught the young will question the importance of learning something that may change at a moments notice.
True the history of the little big horn differs between the U.S. history and that outlined in books like “Black Elk speaks” and “Son of the morning star”. Sadly that Mc Donald’s teen is not alone in expressing that view, I have heard it too many time lately.
I know not everyone is like me, I am a information junky contently learning and of course my opinions and conclusions do change on occasions based on new information. But I guess it is just sad to me that it is becoming to the point that no real hard facts can be held by so many. That answers are now more then ever open to not real data but more to a prevailing opinion. A good case in point maybe Global warming, there are many scientists that hold it to be a real threat. While many other scientists say it is not and both present cases to prove their point. That leave it up to the individual as to which they are to believe and neither seem to hold the truth of the matter. Both right or both wrong and the issue left to a wait and see as to whether we have nothing to fear or end up dieing as a species! Often it is the stance of the individuals that since neither is fact. It is better to be fat, stupid and happy, since one mean that nothing is wrong and the other is chalked up to “Oh well we all die sometime!”.
Things change the more we know about it. I’m not for sure if the revisions in history books or on television history channel become less factual over time. I would think it would be the reverse.
But that being said, in regards to revision in historical information things can change and they have a point about perspectives. For example, what we call the Vietnam War, is what the Vietnemese call the American War. So it does depend on where and on what side, when it comes to battles and political confrentation (sp).
Take the Holocaust for example. The number of Jews that were killed by the National Socialist German’s Worker Party keeps on going up. My friend showed me a book from when he was in college in the 1970’s, that said 2 million Jews were killed in camps, in the 80’s the number was around 4 to 5 million. Now that number is either 6 to 7 million.
Is History relevent? In a way, Yes! Important general knowledge about one’s country I believe is important. But Jeopardy knowledge, I believe is soley based on interest.
My interest is only on the 20th Century. Some people take interest in ancient Greek or Roman and etc. Take your pick. It’s a wide field. But I would have to agree that most of learning History is based on individual interest.
But I think that school children should be taught the basic history of our country, which is what they do now. It’s adequte.
But that can even be seen as biased or shifted perspective. I remember some outcry on some government school History text book that people said had like 6 or so pages dedicated to President William Clinton, but only a small paragraph on Abe Lincoln.
But kids need to lean where their interest are. Although General Education is vital, not caring about watching the Discovery or History Channel, I wouldn’t think is a big worry.
The reason some kids don’t like watching the History or the Discovery Channel is because they are required to watch it in schools (that have satellite/cable.)
Watching it at school, I’m sure turns them off for further viewing.
Pat Buchanan ?The AIPAC GirlTue Mar 20, 3:00 AM ETIf George W. Bush launches a pre-emptive war onIran”, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will bear full moral responsibility for that war.
For it was Pelosi who quietly agreed to strip out of the $100 billion funding bill fora provision that would have required President Bush to seek congressional approval before launching any new war on Iran.Pelosi’s capitulation came in the Appropriations Committee.What went down, and why?”Conservative Democrats as well as lawmakers concerned about the possible impact onIsrael had argued for the change in strategy,” wrote The Associated Press’ David Espo and Matthew Lead.”Rep. Shelley Berkley D-Nev., said in an interview there is a widespread fear in Israel about Iran, which … has expressed unremitting hostility to the Jewish state.”‘It would take away perhaps the most important tool the U.S. has when it comes to Iran,’ she said of the now-abandoned provision.”‘I don’t think it was a very wise idea to take things off the table if you’re trying to get people to modify their behavior and normalize in a civilized way,’ said Gary Ackerman of New York.”According to John Nichols of The Nation, Pelosi’s decision to strip the provision barring Bush from attacking Iran without Congress’ approval “sends the worst possible signal to the White House.”"The speaker has erred dangerously and dramatically,” writes Nichols. Her “disastrous misstep could haunt her and the Congress for years to come.”Nichols does not exaggerate.
Here is the link to the full opinion page:http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20070320/cm_uc_crpbux/op_332252
“We’re sorry…Your comment has not been posted because we think it may be comment spam. We routinely monitor comment activity and block comments that exhibit patterns of abuse. We apologize if you believe you’ve reached this message in error”
I received this error message while trying to post the above item.
Iran captures British forces.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1257281,00.html
It’s starting to hit the fan now.
Maybe when the Iranian President comes to visit the U.S. we can offer him quarters at the nearest Federal Prison until the hostages are released.:)
There’s a book that came out several years ago called ‘Blind Man’s Bluff”. It’s about the roll of submarines during the cold war.
One part of the book talks about the Batfish following a Russian Missle boat while it was on patrol off the east coast.
A few years ago there was a documentary made called ‘Blind Man’s Bluff’ based on the book and it was shown on the History Channel.
I was watching it while working in my workshop in the basement. The segment on the Batfish was showing and I started noticing things that looked familiar to me. I realized that I was on the Batfish during the time they were documenting.
I yelled upstairs for my wife to come down and see. I told her I was on the Batfish when this was going on. She watched the program for a little while and said. “Crap! I’m married to someone on the History Channel”
Hank
This is by far the best open thread in several months. (Maybe because the KAVE’s haven’t been here yet.)
Writerdog, your post about history is right on. And JWink’s comment on MOTIVATION deserved a double post. Curiosity and motivation will get a person far in life, or maybe earn him a Darwin award.
GSheridan’s post on global warming fits right in with the history and motivation. Honestly, I hardly think that “global warming”, or global cooling, or pollution control, mining regulation or any of the rest of it is a “religion”. It is, basically, a whole bunch of people finally realizing that this ball of dirt we live on and the atmosphere that we breathe is finite! We can argue about what the effects our actions have on the earth, with the expected disagreement. BUT WE ARE ALL BEGINNING TO AGREE THAT OUR ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIONS AFFECT SOMEONE ELSE, including those who are to live after us.
In this process, we are making history. We are coming to grips with our responsibilities. There will always be some naysayers, who stick their head in the sand and proclaim the issues are unimportant to them. They will use the same old lame excuses of: We can’t change it. It costs to much. The other person, state, company, country, etc. are worse than we are! It’s socialism! You can’t force me to do that! and any of a thousand other excuses.
The problem is that they are the unmotivated, the apathetic (and sometimes vocal about it!) They are not only uneducated, they are uneducacable. They will see history as they want to see it and will see the future as a bleak distance. They sit permanently in the present and are unmovable.
Meanwhile, those who understand we are living on a timeline and that what we do today will determine our circumstances tomorrow, will debate the best path to take. They will control the events that are written down as history. Only in the future can those events be adjudicated good or bad, and they will be argued over from as many different perspectives as there are cultures.
Our imperative is to leave our children a better world than we were born into. Debate is a tool to help us. Science, information, and, yes, even religion, is a tool to help us. But History is the only tool that will judge us and tell us if we succeeded or failed.
Republican, I’ve been wondering about that. When Ahmadinejad comes to the US, why don’t we seize the basta*d? I’ve heard and read that he was involved in the embassy takeover. Surely that violates some law, like kidnapping.And it makes a lot more sense than starting another war, at least for now.
I heard that too Infernal B. Would be hard to prove that the President of Iran was the same person who participated in the Hostage taking of the American Embassy.
An unwise move by the Iranians though regardless of the outcome. How it turns out will show the resolve of the respective countries involved; Great Britain and Iran.
Joe Williams, in 98 the number of Jews that died at Auschwitz was adjusted DOWN from the previously-thought, 4 million, to 1 1/2 million.
That dropped the count from a 6 million total to somewhere around 3 1/2 million.
But, give or take a million or so – it was a horrific massacre.
Yet, what intrigues me MORE is WHY the Jews are singled out for recognition – when that war (WWII) took a total of around 50 million lives.
Boggles the mind.
Lets wait until we find out just what happened:
“It is not the first time British servicemen have run up against Iranian forces in the troubled waters between Iran and Iraq.
Forces seized by Iranians Eight men were seized and detained after three patrol boats were said to have strayed into the Iranian side of the Shatt al Arab waterway in July 2004. They were later released.
Analysts have told Sky News that such cases are normally resolved peacefully.”
Note that in the prior incident the British violated Iranian territorial waters. In that waterway that is an easy thing to do.
The Club for Growth puts the heat on freshmen Blue Dog Democrats:
* Nancy Boyda (KS-2): Nancy Boyda recently came out in support of the pork-stuffed Iraq supplemental bill, but her campaign website told a different story. Running against Republican Jim Ryun, she wrote “Congress must never waste a single taxpayer dime on needless spending…Wasteful spending has increased exponentially in recent years.” Does Nancy Boyda think $75 million for peanut storage is not a waste of taxpayer dollars?
http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2007/03/the_iraq_spending_bill.php
This was in response to JR, on a previous thread, but it really applies to all, so I’ll post it here. If this applies to you, you know who you are.
And it’s (probably) the last word I’ll say on the subject.______________________________________________________________________
It’s not with you, JR. As I’ve said several times, though you can get rather shrill, you are generally not the problem.
Let’s start with a simple thing. I call myself GMC70. I do so for reasons I know that I need not go into here here, but it’s probably obvious. I’m entitled to be addressed that way, or perhaps a shorter version of it. No matter what you think of my opinions, NOTHING justifies turning a nic into an insult. Mine or anyone elses.
You don’t like my opinion, fine. Challenge it on the merits. Does petty name calling, or name ‘twisting,’ further debate? No. We should have got past that in kindergarten. But often we have not.
We’ve been through this, and after the self-rightous left left, I had hoped that we would not go so easily back down that path. And yes, the “other” blog is doing the same thing; it’s just not so apparant, because they don’t allow anyone they disagree with to play in their little (and I do mean little) sandbox.
Last shot- how about this standard of basic behavior:
DON’T WRITE ANYTHING HERE YOU WOULD NOT SAY FACE TO FACE IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
And if some of you would say the things you write here in such a forum, well, I frankly don’t want to know you.
______________________________________________________________________
Resume your bickering, if you like.
GMC,
Having a blank line on a form from an attorney makes me nervous.
Can I take it home and read it over night?
(nervously looks at blank line)
“self-rightous left left”?
Oh, you must mean the boycotters who were tired of the righties acting “self-rightous”.
Republican:
Thanks. You made me laugh. I needed that!
;-)
“Iraqis who are unable to flee the country are now in a queue, waiting their turn to die,” from the Bush surge.
“Fleeing Iraqis creating refugee ‘crisis’Calls for relief programs come as new UN report points to global ‘abject denial’ of the humanitarian impact of the invasion of Iraq.By Tom Regan | csmonitor.comAs an estimated 40,000-50,000 Iraqis flee their countries each month, governments in the region are reluctant to acknowledge that they are dealing with a full-blown refugee crisis. Kristele Younes writes in Foreign Policy in Focus that the United Nations estimates 2.3 million Iraqis have left since 2003. As a result, there is a “strong need” for host nations to sponsor programs (funded by the UN and donor governments) that will address the needs of this refugee population.
“Iraqis who are unable to flee the country are now in a queue, waiting their turn to die,” is how one Iraqi journalist summarizes conditions in Iraq today. While the US debates whether a civil war is raging in Iraq, thousands of Iraqis face the possibility of death every day all over the country. All Iraqis, whether Sunni, Shi’a, Christian, or other groups such as the Palestinian, are threatened by armed actors.”
Hi Ed Friedemann,
At least the Iraqi citizens have a choice in leaving.
They couldn’t do that under Saddam.
Republican,
If you’re not too busy typing vapid nonsensical paeans to freedom here, I really would be curious to see your response to my last couple posts back on the Attorney Firing thread from yesterday.
Love, Condor
Condor,
You do realize you could have provided a link by clicking on the date of your post.
Now I have to go dredge through the posts and guess which one you are referring to.
Iraq was like Disney World under Saddam compared to the so-called Bush “surge” which is nothing other than genicide.
But you like that shit, now don’t ya…
Republican,
I can’t bring myself to apologize for not providing a link, but I will admit that mistakes were made:
linky goodness: http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/03/firing_was_all_.html#comment-64154874
“Crap! I’m married to someone on the History Channel”
HankGee Hank and you look so young too!
GSheridan,
“… are issuing DEATH THREATS against some who would speak out against it.”
To anyone besides Tim Ball? Did the police investigate the alleged 5 emails? Is it possibly a publicity stunt, to get attention?http://www.desmogblog.com/tim-ball-death-threats
And this part of your link is “interesting”.”Klaus wrote that it was futile to fight against phenomena like higher solar activity or the change of ocean currents, …”
Someone should educate Klaus. Solar activity is unchanged, and the problem is human-added GHG’s.
I wish that the bill had been a straight matter of the Iraq war, it certainly is important enough to desire a vote on the single subject. In a real sense it was tainted by the add-ons, though for the most part many of the add-on where important in and of themselves. But it did bring about a feeling that votes were paid for and not votes of judgment. I do applaud that the committee added funding above that the President asked for.
A time line is of course questionable except that there are many things that were listed and push backward in the things that needed to be done. These things would have brought about the conditions needed for the Iraqis to control their own country and allow us to truly call the mistake to have been corrected. Perhaps some pressure applied will force those things needed to be done. Such as Iraq to pay for it own way, a real Iraqis ran ministries of interior, defense, bring back the Army, Police and other government functions that at one time there was a plan to keep and pay the already existing members but the decision was made to abolish. Which lead to unemployment, social instability and growing resentment to the U.S. occupation.
There were lessons learned from other actions that showed a winning thought process that was ignored by top officials in the Administration. In the beginning and shortly after the invasion. Perhaps now the Administration will finally except the change in course need to complete the peace.
Gentle people,
I finally have to admit, the debate on human causation of global warming is over!:
http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?ID=15357
Hank
Out of the mouths of babes….
Re Hank’s ‘Global warming on trialSixth-graders decide that humans aren’t to blame’
“The jury responded more warmly, however, to Caleb Poppe’s response: The graphic cited a Hawaiian source; Hawaii has volcanoes; volcanoes emit CO2.”
Wonder what those sixth graders will think when the learn the truth?
Mauna Loa has procedures to avoid errors from volcanoes.
And these sites measure the same CO2 rise as Mauna Loa: Barrow, American Samoa, South Pole, Alert, Cape Kumukahi, Christmas Island, Baring Head, Kermadec Island, La Jolla Pier, and others.http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm
“Wonder what those sixth graders will think when the learn the truth?”
They will become Republicans.
Stupid volcanos
I got lots of trees on my property. Somebody better damn well start paying me some carbon credits for all the work their doing with the CO2. Damnit.
Since SOB already coined the term Goracle for Al Gore, I’ll nick name Cosmos as
WonderWoman
As he starts sentences with “Wonder” a lot.
joking!!!! :)
Not sure to click on that link of Hanks or not.
LAST time he brought me a link it went off in his pants.
But he is correct. The debate is over. Global warming is happening and human activity is responsible.
Maybe I’ll look later.
Some important information.
There is currently a recall of MANY brands of cat and dog food. You can find out the affected brands at http://www.menufoods.com There, you will find all of the brand names. If you click on a brand name, you can see the recalled product.
These pet foods have been shown to contain rodent poison! Many pets have died or become sick from eating the food. The source is wheat gluten filler in the food. Apparently this was from Chinese wheat treated with the rodenticide.
Um, don’t we grow wheat in the US?
Poison dog food, contaminated peanut butter and spinach; just more gifts brought to you by the “free” market and deregulation.
Rat poison eh? Either Strychnine or Warfarin maybe?
Have no clue what they would use in China for rat poison. I thought they ate them there.
I got a tip for JR to save the fragile planet. Turn of your PC to save power.
Or don’t, it don’t matter. Keep posting your stuff. It is good humor.
“The debate is over. Global warming is happening and human activity is responsible.”
Damn Humans. Damn dirty apes!!!
Stupid humans. How dare we live here.
A $50-million class-action lawsuit was filed Tuesday in Toronto against Royal Canin — a multibillion-dollar French company that supplies the Canadian pet-food market.
La Société Royal Canin is a French manufacturer and worldwide supplier of extremely high quality, specialized dog and cat foods.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canin
News of the lawsuit follows a North America-wide recall issued Friday by Ontario-based Menu Foods, and involving 91 different kinds of dog and cat food, after the U.S. Food and Drug Administration received complaints the food was causing kidney failure in animals.
Menu Foods, a Canadian company based outside Toronto that produces pet food, said Saturday it was recalling dog food sold throughout North America under 51 brands and cat food sold under 40 brands including Iams, Nutro and Eukanuba. The food was distributed by major retailers such as Wal-Mart, Kroger and Safeway.
There is a Menu Foods Distributor in Emporia, Kansas.
The French has some explaining to do. :)
On a side note:
Chinese that died from rat poison.Sound familiar?
According to the official China Daily newspaper, initial investigations suggest a commonly used rat poison was the probable cause of the poisoning on Saturday, which hit more than 200 people. So far official media has not disclosed the number of those killed. On Saturday Xinhua reported on its Web site that 41 people had died in the poisoning. It later changed its count to “a number” of people killed.
Kind of makes one feel they shouldn’t be going out for Chinese food, until all food imports from China have been tested.
I am so pleased that Hank has committed himself to evnironmental stewardship!
From Hank’s link…
Thank you for saving the world Hank.
…now I gotta go drive my Hummer down the driveway to the mailbox to get my Rush newsletter.
It’s time for the newsletter again?
I gotta get home!
Hank
Ya, Hank: Rush on home:-)
Hey guys!
The boy is flying in at 5:10 pm tomorrow!
We’re going to take him and his buddy out to dinner when he gets in.
Thought you’ld like to know!
Hank
That’s great to hear Hank. It’s always good to hear of a hero’s safe return.
Made my day, amigo. Welcome home, bro!
Welcome home, safely. My own Marine reservist is long since back as well. Here’s to their not having to return to the sandbox.
Got another planet-saving tip for you JR. I’m afraid it’s kinda icky. But, I know how much you care so I thought I’d share.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/garden/22impact.html?ex=1332216000&en=e77725051fe1a853&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
Woot! Glad to hear your son is almost home!
Give him a salute and handshake for me. :)
If the Dems get there way, maybe he won’t have to return in a few months.
Happy for you, Hank!! Awesome that he is coming home safe and sound. Too late to try to organize a welcome home for him, especially since we have a much more somber mission in Wamego tomorrow.
Congrats!!!
I’ll make sure everyone gets the good news Hank.
No problem raptor. Thank God you didn’t have to show up to protect Phelps when he came home!
God Bless you for the good work you do! Take care in Wamego tomorrow!
When things settle down a little we’ll have some steaks and beer at the club house out here. Everyone envited!
Thanks J R, hopefully we’ll have this under control before too much longer.
Hank
It is worth mentioning again.
http://www.menufoods.com
For the list of recalled poisonous pet food.
The affected foods contain aminopterin.
Along with killing rats this lovely stuff has been used in chemotherapy and to induce abortions! I did a little reading. Thourougly nasty stuff. It isn’t even legal in the US!
I know present company outnumbers me in opposing government regulations on stuff. But geez how long before something like this happens to the human food supply?
It is important to get out the word on this. The Emporia plant is one of only two places this poison got loose.
Yuck! Nasty!I will never eat Chinese food again!
Oh, wait a minute….My Chinese food is U.S. made!
Writerdog,History is “an account, mostly false, about kings, mostly knaves and soldiers, mostly fools.”-Ambrose Bierce-
Yuck! Nasty!I will never eat Chinese food again!
Oh, wait a minute….My Chinese food is U.S. made!
Yes Rusty, but is there a noticeable absent of cats and dogs in the neighborhood? You do not know what pet food they have been eating!
BTW Chinese is one of my very favorite food.
Hank, how long was his tour? Has it been a year already?
I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven’t gotten much done for a while.
I haven’t been up to much recently, but whatever. I just don’t have much to say lately. Basically nothing happening to speak of. So it goes. My mind is like a complete blank. Such is life.
Males should be allowed to go shirtless at home only – Or vary with places for another persuasive speech topic
Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work
An integrated, segregated society is better
My mind is like a bunch of nothing. I’ve just been letting everything wash over me lately. Oh well. Such is life.
A one-night stand is wrong, is not wrong
Vanity is not a valid reason for cosmetic plastic surgery