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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted March 16, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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An interesting read to start the day;
[quote]Racist Democrats vs. Colorblind Republicansby John Hawkins (More by this author)Posted: 07/05/2006Sadly, Democrats have managed to trick a lot of black Americans into believing that the GOP is a racist party. But, in truth, the Democratic Party was, is, and will likely continue to be the home of far more racists than the GOP. Let me explain why I say that.
To begin with, the Republican Party was founded by anti-slavery activists, in contrast to the pro-slavery Democratic Party. It was Abe Lincoln, a Republican President, who led the North to victory in the Civil War and freed the slaves while the Democrats did everything in their power to keep black Americans down.
Fast forward to 1898 in Wilmington, N.C., where Democrats murdered black Republicans so they could stage, “the nation’s only recorded coup d’etat.” Then, in 1922, Democrats in the Senate filibustered a Republican attempt to make lynching a federal crime. A little later on, FDR nominated former Klansman Hugo Black to the Supreme Court. Contrast that to Republican President Dwight Eisenhower, who actually “sent troops” to ensure that schools in Little Rock, Ark., were desegregated and ordered the “complete desegregation of the Armed Forces.” Noticing any trends?
But, that was such a long time ago, right? Things really changed in the ’60s, didn’t they? Yes, Americans — particularly black Americans — really owe Democratic President Lyndon Johnson a debt of gratitude for destroying American families and causing the number of illegitimate births to skyrocket — by pushing entitlement programs that made it much easier to have children out of wedlock.
Remember George “segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever” Wallace standing in the door of an Alabama schoolhouse to keep black children from being able to go to school with whites? George Wallace was a Democrat. Remember Bull Connor turning water hoses and dogs on civil rights protestors? Bull Connor was a Democrat.
But, what about the revolutionary Civil Rights Act of 1964? That’s where the Democrats showed their mettle and Republicans were proven to be racists. Right? Wrong. 82% of Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 versus only 64% of Democrats. Furthermore, a few years later, it was Republican Richard Nixon who first put teeth behind affirmative action.
But, what about today? You’d think that with Democrats receiving upwards of 90% of the black vote in some cases, that there would be few, if any, prominent black Republicans while black Americans would be amongst the biggest power players in the Democratic Party. However, the opposite has often turned out to be true. Once you look past the gerrymandered districts that have to remain in place because so many liberal whites simply won’t vote for black candidates (There are only five black Democrats in the House representing majority white districts), you’ll see that the Republican Party has surpassed the Democrats in many areas.
Who’s the only black American currently on the Supreme Court? Clarence Thomas. The first black Secretary of State? Colin Powell. The first black woman ever to be a Secretary of State? Condi Rice.
Who’s one of the fill-ins for the most popular conservative radio host on earth, Rush Limbaugh? Walter Williams. The most desired 2008 nominee as selected by the right side of the blogosphere in 2006? Condi Rice. Who did those same bloggers select as the most desired nominee to replace Sandra Day O’Connor when she retired? Janice Rogers Brown tied for first place.
Meanwhile, what do we see from Democrats? We see Oreo cookies being thrown at Maryland’s black U.S. Senate candidate Michael Steele and black Republicans being called “Uncle Toms” and compared to “Aunt Jemima.”
Moreover, let’s take a look at a couple of studies that actually set out to compare how racist Republicans and Democrats actually are. First off, a professor from Yale looked at voting patterns and she found that:
“…(W)hite Republicans nationally are 25 percentage points more likely on average to vote for the Democratic senatorial candidate when the GOP hopeful is black. …In House races, white Democrats are 38 percentage points less likely to vote Democratic if their candidate is black.”
It would have been interesting for them to poll black Republicans and Democrats as well, for comparison’s sake, but however you slice it, there are a lot more white Democrats than white Republicans willing to defect to the other side rather than vote for a black candidate.
Then there is another study, this time from a professor at Stanford — of how much government largesse Democrats and Republicans believe people deserved to be given after Katrina — and, surprise, surprise: Democrats behaved in a racist fashion while Republicans didn’t:
“But for Democrats, race mattered — and in a disturbing way. Overall, Democrats were willing to give whites about $1,500 more than they chose to give to a black or other minority….” Republicans are likely to be more stringent, both in terms of money and time, Iyengar said. “However, their position is ‘principled’ in the sense that it stems from a strong belief in individualism (as opposed to handouts). Thus their responses to the assistance questions are relatively invariant across the different media conditions. Independents and Democrats, on the other hand, are more likely to be affected by racial cues.”
Here’s the reality: there are racists in both parties. But, there are a lot more of them in the Democratic Party and there always have been. But ironically, Democrats have managed to use the GOP’s belief in a colorblind America against us. Because so many Democrats have no problem with using racial discrimination for political purposes, they’ll support policies like reparations, Affirmative Action, and racial quotas that Republicans simply won’t. Then they deftly distort and exploit incidents like the Katrina rescue efforts and Bill Bennett’s condemnation of the idea that black babies could be aborted to reduce the crime rate to convince black Americans that the GOP hates black Americans.
This is all despite the fact that for a large number of black Americans, the GOP is a much better fit than the Democratic Party. The GOP is the party that’s friendly to religion, anti-abortion, against gay marriage, tough on crime, and for low taxes and school vouchers. Yet, so many black Americans have been deceived into sticking with the Democrats even though the Dems do so many things that are harmful to our country as a whole and to black Americans in particular.
That’s why if you’re a black American who thinks the GOP better represents your views than the Democratic Party, then it’s time to join the Republican Party. Don’t let the Democrats lie to you and tell you that the GOP is full of racists, especially when there are so many distinguished black Americans out there who can tell you otherwise. Look to Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Rod Paige, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Larry Elder, J.C. Watts, Michael Steele, Ken Blackwell, Lynn Swann — and you’ll see that the GOP judges people not “by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”[end quote]
GS,…you’ll see that the GOP judges people not “by the color of their skin but by the content of their financial portfolios.
Interesting, thoughtful and well researched work pasted by GS.
Followed up by a snide, and rude remark by Jed.
*sigh*.
DAY 3 OF THE (COUGH) BOYCOTT BY THE PERSECUTED (COUGH) LEFT
The past half-century, with the departure of “Dixiecrats” from the Democratic Party (and their growing influence in the GOP) has seen huge changes in that,
Was reading the No-call list article in the Eagle. I’m on it I think. And its true that charitable organizations are exempt as the increase of calls from charity organizations to my house has increased ten fold from previous years.
I give to some, but give me a break, I can’t give to twenty different forms of Police organizations and several dozen forms of other types of organizations. In some months I get three phone calls a day from charities asking for money.
The firefighters seem to be the most under control as they limit their fund raising efforts.
Maybe I’m targeted as a softie when it comes to donating funds, but gee whiz fellas how about giving me a break and not calling me so much.
Yes, day three of the boycott and a few have trickled back.
It’s been so darned NICE around here lately.
In fact, I’m in such a good mood that I want to dedicate the lyrics of my favorite modern-day singer, James Blunt and his song, “Wisemen,” to our lost members.
And I want to remind them (Tracy and his immediate crew) that the first day I got here, they bragged about how they were going to trounce me so thoroughly that I’d be toast, and long gone from the board – in a week.
And so – for you, my absent friends:
—————–
Wisemen
She said to me, “Go steady on me.Won’t you tell me what the Wise Men said?When they came down from Heaven,Smoked nine ’til seven,All the shit that they could find,But they couldn’t escape from you,Couldn’t be free of you,And now they know there’s no way out,And they’re really sorry now for what they’ve done,They were three Wise Men just trying to have some fun.”
Look who’s alone now,It’s not me. It’s not me.Those three Wise Men,They’ve got a semi by the sea.Got to ask yourself the question,Where are you now?
Really sorry now,They weren’t to know.They got caught up in your talent show,With you pernickety little bastards in your fancy dress,Who just judge each other and try to impress,But they couldn’t escape from you,Couldn’t be free of you,And now they know there’s no way out,And they’re really sorry now for what they’ve done,They were three Wise Men just trying to have some fun.
Look who’s alone now,It’s not me. It’s not me.Those three Wise Men,They’ve got a semi by the sea.Got to ask yourself the question,Where are you now?
——————–
Now that song will be stuck in my head all darned day, lol.
Arena is driving people out of downtown:
“Matt Devins, owner of Praire Print at 315 S. St. Francis, says he will be delayed moving becaues a purchase agreement on another building fell through. The company now is building a new facility at 37th Street North and Ohio Street.”
I thought the arena was going to bring people back downtown???
For some reason Gsheridan, the only song that keeps popping into my head is the Jeopardy Game show song and its driving me nuts…
I Dream of Jeannie is killing me.Vonage, too.
dammit Fleettwood, now all I hear is the Vonage song… :(
Wiper, wiper, wiper blades.or,Orange barrells, orange barrells.
Woo hoo, woo hoo hoo
Thanks, Sanford, now I have “wheels on the bus” stuck in my head (hazards of having a toddler I suppose… i almost automatically link phrases to childrens songs instead of adult songs now) and that has to be the most annoying song ever…
The babies on the bus go whaa whaa whaa
WEll, driving home I heard “Black Horse and the Cherry Tree, so that’s the new one in my head now.
“…..don’t look back, just keep on walking….”
The Barney Song creeps into his mind and his eyes roll back into his head…
Hank, just saw on yesterday’s Open Thread your information on Nathan. May his trip back to the States and ICT be without incident.
Wheels on the bus ……….thanks, when will the voices in my head go away??!!
GS~ RE: your 3:30 post:I tend to scroll over long posts, generally they bore and turn out useless.However, your post was fantastic. Informed, reasoned, researched, very revealing.Thanks.
Hank..
Not sure if you saw my post on the other open thread, so this will be a repeat.
First–am very happy for you and Nathan on his return!!
Second, not sure if you are aware, but Patriot Guard also does joyful missions of welcoming home troops. If you would like us to honor his returning unit, please let me know–email is live. We only show up where invited, and it takes a little while to organize, but if we can be of service, please advise..
Thanks!
“It was Abe Lincoln, a Republican President, who led the North to victory in the Civil War and freed the slaves…”
It is a small point, but, Lincoln freed no one. I know many think so and he did much to make it eventually happen, but calling him the Great Emancipator is not exactly correct.
raptor – I did not know that about you. Thank you and thanks for the Patriot Guard which does such unselfish service. I’m very touched by the organization you belong to and am glad there are true Patriots that still exist.
Raptor~ I 2nd what Repub said. Thanks for your efforts.
raptor already knows who appreciates his efforts and have expressed so before.
I do not know if Hank saw it when I posted late on the open yesterday. There are many who are happy that Nathan is safely out of Iraq and on his way home. I wish the actions of some newly arrived, poorly behaved posters had not resulted in those folks not being “here”. I’ll presume to speak for them.
Gee thanks Republican! That purple monster is not allowed in my house for that very reason – and I stand corrected, apparently Wheels on the Bus is NOT the most annoying song ever!!!!!!
“I wish the actions of some newly arrived, poorly behaved posters had not resulted in those folks not being “here”"
JR~ Please to explain?
Yes, please, jr. ‘Sup with that?
He probably means me Sanford. :)
I’ll let the J R Fisting group have their say on “We who are without sin” talking points.
JR
Some of those “not here” are just as bad or worse than the “newly arrived” you seem so concerned about.
“…poorly behaved posters…”
I have cut and pasted some of the most poorly behaved poster before. They are now with the “Fisting with Fury” bunch.
I’m just wondering fleettwood who holds the concession on the “Fisting” t-shirts, coffee mugs and bumper sticker concession. :)
Fleet should include a line of’ArseTampons’.
Hey raptor!
Thanks for the kind words! And thanks for all you do!
Just got an email from the boy, he’s still in Iraq. He is, however, out of Camp Falujah at TQ (where ever TQ is) waiting for a C-130 to take hime to Kuwait. Then Germany. Then California.
He’s scheduled to be back in the states by the 21st, but when the military is youir travel agent. . . .
I’m not sure how many will be with him when he returns to Wichita, he may be alone. And I don’t know exactly when he’ll get leave to come home.
He gets out May or June and we’ll have a party then. Come out, drink my beer, eat my steaks and help me convince a Marine about the stupididy of volunteering!
Hank
Hank, there are some things that are beyond human capability. :-) I’ll take you up on your invitation; just let me know (looking forward to drinking a Navy man’s beer, eating his steaks…).
Oh give the kid a break, Hank. At least he’s not considering re-enlisting in the Navy.
(You know I’m pulling your leg)
xxx-Have you broken with the Fisting Group?
Hank – you tell your son he is my hero. I’m so glad he is coming back. I know from a father’s point of view, it must be very hard to see your kid volunteer, but to me – your son is the epitome of all that is strong, moral and good in this country.
Soldiers should be paid more, much more.
Gee,
That article you clipped is full of crap. Something about it seems old. Did I read it months before, last year? It’s an east coast article. If created recently, many statements are familiar.
Political racism was mixed up in the past. Dems were bad (states rights) some became Republicans continuing being terrible people. Dems were horrible in the past, as individuals.
Political party is legislation, but some were just simply evil people. They were on both sides of the aisle.
The Fed gov was failing American citizens for a long time allowing flawed laws and society separations. Both parties complicit. Both have unforgivable political sins.
Allowing voting fraud today, both parties try at all costs to win elections.
I’m for people to drop their political party. Be a moderate or conservative if you want. Don’t vote straight ticket without understanding the social harm that may do.
Lynn Swann, what the? Near a football field, he’s alright, anywhere else means nothing.
J.C. Watts is hiding in Vegas, look there for Republican values? The Sooner football legend couldn’t hold his office in Oklahoma.
Colin Powell surely loves the Republicans who set him up. He could save his political career by being honest, slamming Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. The CIA. Would he lose his Republican badge? He should to regain some pride of his accomplishments.
Condi, who knows her future. Is she accomplishing anything right now on the world stage? The world hates Bush too much, making what she’s trying to do meaningless.
The article speaks of political parties as savior of personality and prosperity.
Some of those Republican personalities mentioned are tough to like. Walter Williams is a difficult personality and the way he explains himself. He’s for some people to appreciate, not everybody.
That’s the key.
Who are the people, are their personalities likable. I careless about their politics if I don’t appreciate how they present it.
The worse fights between Repubs and Dems is about value of life.
What party values your life and others. Seemed Republican, the 9/11 tragedy, dead life had future earnings ability.
Democratic Katrina? People left behind and dead in the street, worthless. But the Prez and FEMA were full of Republicans, so who’s fault not getting water and health services to that destroyed zone?
Smart choice was just giving people from New Orleans, heads of families $100,000. Some families with that amount wouldn’t have gone very far.
The few thousands in FEMA cards went nowhere. Free flights were offered was the good thing.
But people moved with nothing. No money, no understanding where they were going.
The FEMA trailers and aftercare costs more $100,000 per person.
Republicans I know said, “those people” in New Orleans didn’t deserve that.
I was thinking “those people” in 9/11 got paid way too much for their future earnings ability.
Dear GS,
Thanks for your kind words!
However, my boy is turd. I wansted to strangle him when he turned 18 and came home and told me that he had joined the Marines.
Then after he had done his two years he was going to WSU and after 9/11 I wanted to strangle him again when he came home and told me he joined the Marine Corp reserves.
In his email the other day he said he was thinking about re-enlisting again. He thinks what we are doing in Iraq is important. I love him dearly, but if I have to strangle him to save him I will!
Hank
Hank,Although I understand a parent’s worry, don’t be too hard on him, it sounds like he’s just trying to do what he feels is right:) I have some family friends where the father couldn’t get a promotion in the USAF (because he was a lazy, good-for-nothing, jerk but that’s just my opinion…) so he always spoke horribly of the AF and told his sons to never ever enlist in the AF or he would disown them. So, they went and joined the Army and both of them got blown up, shot up, and almost killed. Kind of ironic, isn’t it? Not that I’m comparing your situation to that, just be careful what you say, it might backfire:) It could be because of my military upbringing, but I have such respect for those who are willing to go out there and fight to protect those citizens that will sit behind and constantly belittle their mission – I hope your son makes it back very soon – those military “travel agents” sure don’t rush, do they?
Mrage, your points are without merit in several ways.
JC Watts didn’t run for re-election. He wanted to spend more time with a family that was growing up way too fast.
The Katrina disaster was the result of a poorly prepared state and city. Nagin (D) and Blount (D) were to blame here. Fema shares the blame for not getting supplies to them sooner and Bush shares the blame because FEMA is run by the fed. gov. One defense for FEMA is that they were initially being shot at. Can’t blame them for not wanting to go in.
No disaster plan was in place. Florida has demonstrated that in an emergency you cannot depend on FEMA to be the first responder. Your own state disaster plan has to be there and be organized.
Rod Paige the Secretary of Education has represented the black race well. He is very informed on the measures needed in our schools to better educate our youngsters. He is also aware of the roadblocks put up by educators and administrators who want no federal involment in the schools unless it is the form of dollars.
While unfortunately there were some people left dead in the street the number was grossly exageratted by the media. It was the most devasting disaster to ever hit US and we weren’t prepared for it at a state,local or federal level.
All this said, GS made some very good points. When a black such as Clarence Thomas is elevated to a high position, the blacks call him an uncle Tom. Even Barak Obamma this week said the blacks need to stop ridiculing their own because they can conjugate verbs.
Many black have distinquished themselves and deserve a great deal of credit. The democrates haven’t been as instrumental in this as the republicans. GS’s article states that very well.
Agreed ksgrm and amazing you can say that with maturity while some cannot without spewing venom.
“DAY 3 OF THE (COUGH) BOYCOTT BY THE PERSECUTED (COUGH) LEFT”(Republican)
“Yes, day three of the boycott and a few have trickled back.
It’s been so darned NICE around here lately.”(GS)
JR
“Some of those “not here” are just as bad or worse than the “newly arrived” you seem so concerned about”.(Heckler)
“…poorly behaved posters…”
I have cut and pasted some of the most poorly behaved poster before. They are now with the “Fisting with Fury” bunch.(fleettwood)
“I’m just wondering fleettwood who holds the concession on the “Fisting” t-shirts, coffee mugs and bumper sticker concession. :)”(Republican)
“xxx-Have you broken with the Fisting Group?”"fleettwood”
Aw, you ‘publicans miss the libs! That’s so sweet! But you got to admit, it’s gotten pretty dull around here lately. Gets pretty dull preaching to the choir, don’t it? What do you “discuss” when everybody agrees?The Lefties are crazy, but you Righties are just stuffy.
—–
Thank you Infernal B, I enjoy being stuffy. :)
And if you notice there was not one curse word in there and all of it was done with good humor.
To answer your assertion, it is still quite pleasant around here and I hope that pleasantness last a very, very, very long time. :)
Hey Infernal B,
There’s a couple of them that I miss, quite fond of one or two of them.
I guess if I start to get shaky I can always go the the bathroom at the nearest gay bar and read the graffiti until I get over it.
Hank
It is very pleasant, isn’t it? There have been difference of opinion, but they can be discussed without name calling, slurs, attacks, and personal insults.
What a refreshing improvement!!!
ksgrm,
You and I probably don’t know the real reasons why JC Watts left politics in Oklahoma.
Maybe it was a more political wall he was facing, than wanting to really be with family. He had political detractors on the Republican side.
Is he getting the same health care coverage, for himself and family, in whatever job he’s taken in Vegas. Having a political job has perks. Most politicians want to be re-elected because of that.
Katrina disaster was a federal failure. FEMA did plan with Nagin and State agencies on what might happen. It did happen, most New Orleans school bus’s they thought would be used for getting people out, didn’t work.
They were underwater. They were placed in area that flooded.
If local and state agencies failed, FEMA and the Fed should have been there immediately.
There is no getting past blaming FEMA first.
Florida has FEMA trailer parks much longer than they should exist. Florida is expert at putting people in trailers.
Florida then sells former seaside trailer park land to developers of hotels and expensive condo’s.
People there don’t have land to get back. They didn’t profit from the seaside land sale.
FEMA trailers anywhere are a huge cost, than just giving people $100,000. Let them choose where to move.
Federal pumps failed in New Orleans so its the Fed’s cost to play for the flooding.
Democratic state and local agencies aren’t in control of the federal pipeline for money.
Republicans failed Louisiana and New Orleans people.
This wasn’t the first time devastating flooding has happened. It’s the first time, a President flew over the tragedy, then nothing happened. Using politics for days as the Katrina event happened. Politics stopped everyone from doing their job.
The original author put up points from his perspective. It was a conversation.
I reject his ideal people should become Republican. Based on past racial problems.
Clarence Thomas seems like a difficult personality, I don’t see him as a great black Republican.
Dems made it tough for him, getting the High Court.
He should create political payback (election decision of 2000) or just make the law based on merits.
He wants to end Affirmative Action for the benefit of black people. Its just not black people using affirmative actions.
Many federal agencies, the military and corporations agreed Affirmative Action policies are necessary. Racism exists, still.
Its always existed within black people some based it on darkness of skin. Who is black with “black only DNA” Take a wild leap, its few. Just like there is only a few “white only DNA” in white people.
Most everyone is a mixture in their DNA as it should be.
Politics shouldn’t demand people choose, because their color of skin.
I hope everyone can vote or not vote for Barack Obama, the first real chance to be President.
People shouldn’t have to switch parties so they don’t vote for a black candidate.
Why would any political party accept a racist. If that answer is truthful. The question would be: Why are you switching parties. Anyone that says, I can’t vote for a black person, they should be disallowed.
Can’t vote for a Jew.
Some still hate dealing with Irish or Italians. Hate Germans. Hate Arabs and Muslims.
I hope future elections are more representatives of society.
Devalue the political parties, is my answer to the original author. Not suggest people leap to the Republican party.
Not try to shame people of a past they didn’t control. Past history in American politics is flawed. People from both parties were evil.
When bad federal laws were created like segregation, what stopped the Fed from investigating murders of black people. Why weren’t both political parties trying to find killers. States were full of racists in political power who did nothing.
Fed finally sending national guard into states changed lives. It was the Fed finally acting like its their responsibility.
Both parties failed the American people. People should quit their party than rejoin or ask others to join.
Good to see Infernal B
Pleasant huh?
What some are willing to allow for pleasantness.Disappointed in ya raptor. I’ll think twice before defending you again.
I aint here to carry messages or water for anybody. I will tell you this; the folks not here are not doing what they are doing because of the conservatives. They are used to and fully capable of dealing with you. It speaks something of you all that you need folks fighting dirty to drive the progressives away for you. No they are doing what they are because of the trolls. You want to call “pleasant” a place the trolls have bought for you.
Well it’s gonna get real unpleasant.
You all have a major troublemaker about. Actually there is more than one. But one of them is particularly loathsome. And he just became my mission here.
Starting next week, you are going to get a whole lot of what that person has posted here rehashed for you. I’ll let you see what you think of it.
In the meantime. ACTUALLY in the forseeable future until I get an answer, a request for the editors.
Trolling and nic stealing had become a serious problem shortly before the last weblog meetup. Then, almost overnight, it stopped. A poster or two disappeared about the same time.
At the meetup, you told us that one person had been identified as the source of most of the trolling. You told us you had blocked the IP of that poster. Hank and outlander know because they were at the meetup.The thing you would NOT tell us at the meetup was the screen name of the person responsible for the trouble. I guess we should have demanded to know. I can’t think of why you would keep it from us.
Cause folks? I got a strong suspicion that person is back. Now it is not a major thing to change internet providers and thus IP. But it does speak of a determination of that person to continue to be a problem here.
Here’s what I want: I want to know the sreen name of the poster you blocked. Now if I’m wrong and that person is not about and causing problems? I’ll let it go. It just means that the right has more than one dirty fighting slimeball. BUT if I’m right and the blocked poster is back, you editors don’t have to do a thing. WE will take care of it. We can’t block the person. But we can make their visits here very unpleasant. I’m SURE there are good folks on the right who would help us in that noble cause.
Just email me the screen name of the poster you blocked. That’s all I ask and it’s not unreasonable.
We return now to the pleasantly boring forum.
“Republicans failed Louisiana and New Orleans people.”
Let’s see, Cowskin Creek in Wichita floods, 10 people drown, 50 houses ruined. Bush’s fault?
Hey J R,
Grow up. It’s a Blog. Try not to pop a brain nerve, okay?
Meanwhile, another flip-flop from the White House:
“White House murky on prosecutor firingsLAURIE KELLMANAssociated PressWASHINGTON – The White House dropped its contention Friday that former Counsel Harriet Miers first raised the idea of firing U.S. attorneys, blaming “hazy memories” as e-mails shed new light on Karl Rove’s role. Support eroded further for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
Presidential press secretary Tony Snow previously had asserted Miers was the person who came up with the idea, but he said Friday, “I don’t want to try to vouch for origination.” He said, “At this juncture, people have hazy memories.”
The White House also said it needed more time before deciding whether Miers, political strategist Rove and other presidential advisers would testify before Congress and whether the White House would release documents to lawmakers.”
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/16915680.htm
It will be interesting to see how they react to the subpoenas.
A little nervous there JMRepublicanKhan ?
Oh you better be.
Well hardtruth speaking from past observations, if the White House doesn’t want them to appear they can’t be subpeoned. I could certainly be wrong on this. JMHO
Ahahahahaha!
We are back to that now are we J R.
Go ahead J R, paranoia fits you like a glove.
I am amused. :)
That may be ksgrm, but that is also what led to the unraveling of GOP support for Nixon.
Have you guessed that the person I suspect is you JMRepulicanKhan ?Ding ding.
I used to feel sorry for you. I know you have serious emotional issues. And you really SHOULD get outside more. Before lotsa folks left you were here all hours.
Now it seems like you live here. Well don’t you get too comfortable. Oh and don’t address me anymore. If you have anything to say to me you write to me. You can answer questions but otherwise leave me alone.
ksgrm? I thought you would be on your holiday by now. I’m glad I caught you.
Remember how I said helping the environment and addressing global warming could be win win?
I’ve a story for you. Other day I was doing some work for some folks. They are Republicans but that really isn’t imortant to the story.
Now I saw that they had an ANCIENT central air unit. I told them that while I didn’t sell or install the things, they really should consider gettin a new one since energy efficiencies have improved tremendously over the years. They would be helping the environment and saving energy AND saving money. They were suprised to learn this and are shopping for a new unit!
SEE? There are MANY ways to act and help that are GOOD for all concerned. It’s easier than you think once you start thinking about it.
I thought you’d like to hear that since you asked what you could do.
The one freak, Ian, I wondered why you some of you ever had a pleasant word conversation with that guy.
Its pretty common, people get so full of themselves, they will post with the same handle on other websites.
That person advocated violence, festered racism, but here he seemed reasonable?
Take people completely as they are, not compartmentalize the good and bad part to use.
If a person stinks, he or she can’t hide that. It’s only hidden if people allow it.
There were some enablers of Ian among bloggers here.
“His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.”
Hardtruth, Actually I was thinking about what happened with White House Counsel didn’t want to testify.
It will be interesting in that no crime has been committed that a hearing will carry weight. I think if the GOP leaned anything in the Libby case it was go not give up anything for fishing expeditions.
Mrage
Well I don’t know if I ENABLED Ian. I DID say he had a right to speak. I often CALLED him on what he had to say though.
Ian occassionally had something interesting to say. Not very often. but once in awhile. He was kind when my Dad died.What happened to Ian I don’t know. I know he wasn’t trolling or stealing nics though.
J R wants a piece of me for some reason.
He’s gonna feel really sheepish if he finds out he’s going after the wrong person.
I will then request J R’s IP Ban.
And an apology, every day until I feel I’m satisfied. Or…I may just forget about it and act like an adult, realizing that J R has some severe paranoia issues. :)
JR glad to hear that. We are in town a little longer than I planned to be.
In this months Readers Digest there are listed several things you can do to be more green. I was amazed to know that I am doing about 90% of them. When the old washer & dryer gave up the ghost we replaced them with Whirlpool Duets. This use 1/3rd of the water and energy the older appliances did. Of course the washer sounds like a turbo jet taking off in the final spin because the clothes are almost dry when they come out of the washer. I don’t let the water run when brushing my teeth. I don’t wash my dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. Now that took some time to break that habit. We are replacing some light bulbs with the new flourescents.
Regardless of the accuracy of the GW claims I will do my part to be a good stewart of my little corner of the world.
This was world’s warmest recorded winter Fri Mar 16, 6:17 AM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – This has been the world’s warmest winter since record-keeping began more than a century ago, the U.S. government agency that tracks weather reported on Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENTThe National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said the combined global land and ocean surface temperature from December through February was at its highest since records began in 1880.
A record-warm January was responsible for pushing up the combined winter temperature, according to the agency’s Web site, http://www.noaa.gov.
“Contributing factors were the long-term trend toward warmer temperatures as well as a moderate El Nino in the Pacific,” Jay Lawrimore of NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center said in a telephone interview from Asheville, North Carolina.
The next-warmest winter on record was in 2004, and the third warmest winter was in 1998, Lawrimore said.
The ten warmest years on record have occurred since 1995.
“We don’t say this winter is evidence of the influence of greenhouse gases,” Lawrimore said.
However, he noted that his center’s work is part of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change process, which released a report on global warming last month that found climate change is occurring and that human activities quite likely play a role in the change.
“So we know as a part of that, the conclusions have been reached and the warming trend is due in part to rises in greenhouse gas emissions,” Lawrimore said. “By looking at long-term trends and long-term changes, we are able to better understand natural and anthropogenic (human-caused) climate change.”
The combined temperature for the December-February period was 1.3 degrees F (0.72 degree C) above the 20th century mean, the agency said. Lawrimore did not give an absolute temperature for the three-month period, and said the deviation from the mean was what was important. He did not provide the 20th century mean temperature.
Temperatures were above average for these months in Europe, Asia, western Africa, southeastern Brazil and the northeast half of the United States, with cooler-than-average conditions in parts of Saudi Arabia and the central United States.
Global temperature on land surface during the northern hemisphere winter was also the warmest on record, while the ocean-surface temperature tied for second warmest after the winter of 1997-98.
Over the past century, global surface temperatures have increased by about 0.11 degree F (0.06 degree C) per decade, but the rate of increase has been three times larger since 1976 — around 0.32 degree F (0.18 degree C) per decade, with some of the biggest temperature rises in the high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere.
March 2002
Every day, people of Iraq chased from their homes in facing the threat of starvation, disease, and rape, while the few lucky enough to remain in their homes risk displacement, torture and murder.
Steve, Phew!
Good thing you said warmest winter day on record…
Those dinosaurs from the Jurassic period would be worried that their record for the warmest winter was going to be broken. :)
Starting to look like the “political” as well as military solution to Iraq has been translated into having struck a deal with Al Sadr to lay low along with his hench men, while the “surge” does a little clean up work for him. But like the terminator you can bet he’ll be back!
Starting to look like the “political” as well as military solution to Iraq has been translated into having struck a deal with Al Sadr to lay low along with his hench men, while the “surge” does a little clean up work for him. But like the terminator you can bet he’ll be back! Posted by: steve | March 16, 2007 at 09:37 PM
Cheerleading for Al Sadr steve?
Good! The warmer the better. Brings better prosperity to the world.
I hope we continue our warming period for centuries to come.
JOE!!!
Geez you have kids on the way!
Congrats by the way: )
Guy you need to do some serious research before you welcome global warming. You’re gonna be a parent now. You’ve more a responsibility that politics. And environmentalism should not be political.
ksgrm
Glad to hear you do what you do. Ya know? I hear of SOME folks who are deliberately anti environment because they think it is out of some kind of loyalty to capitalism or something. That’s just stupid. I was an environmentalist LONG before I was a Democrat. Like I say, it’s win win when we think instead of just existing day to day as we have. I hope you have a nice trip.
RepublicanKhan
I’ll afford you the benefit the doubt until I investigate further. Maybe, you only SEEM like a troublesome nut from another nic.
I’m doubting it. YOU sir, are batsh** crazy and you have the posts to prove it even on THIS thread. Go ahead and vent into the night. I’ll be back and bookmark it.
Oh and you go ahead and call for my IP ban. I’ll call for yours as well. Let’s see who the readers and the bloggers say is a necessary loss. I’ve only got one nic. Maybe you could choose your most popular one? You’ll still lose.
We now return you to “Republican” rants.
The Great Global Warming Swindle – BBC Documentary here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831&q
Global Warming is good for our prosperity and enviroment.
Man made global warming and the doom and gloom will follow if we don’t stop industry and CO2 is a complete hoax.
I’m not worried. I actually welcome it for my children.
Joe Williams,
“I hope we continue our warming period for centuries to come.”
Your “hope” may happen, BECAUSE of people like you.
Natural positive feedbacks will amplify the warming humans have STUPIDLY triggered.
* Less ice/snow = less solar energy reflected.* Melting permafrost = rapidly increasing amounts of GHG’s.* More warming = more water vapor, another GHG.* Warmer oceans = less phytoplankton = less CO2 absorbed.* Less phytoplankton, and coral bleaching = less ocean life.
“Because we don’t think about future generations, they will never forget us.” Henrik Tikkanen
Ok! I did my study on the whole issue.
Check the link. It’s long, but will give you another side of the story.
It is not a conspiracy shot or anything else. Give it chance.
“Oh and you go ahead and call for my IP ban. I’ll call for yours as well. Let’s see who the readers and the bloggers say is a necessary loss. I’ve only got one nic. Maybe you could choose your most popular one? You’ll still lose.”Posted by: J R | March 16, 2007 at 10:24 PM
haha!
Since you seem to be on top of things J R. Perhaps you can give me a clue why my MNI stock is going down. I may have to divest.
Joe Williams,
“The Great Global Warming Swindle – BBC Documentary here:”
‘Swindle’ was made by ‘Channel 4′, NOT BBC.
Joe Williams, please print out hard copies of everything in the links below, and give them to your children. And ask them to pass it on to their children, etc…
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/global_warming/
http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/“Most of the people on the programme are professional communicators who are more familiar with the chat show than the lab. Of course they give good interviews – it is what they do for a living.”
‘Channel 4 Now Ashamed of its Experts’http://www.desmogblog.com/channel-4-now-ashamed-of-its-experts“Even the Calgary Herald, the leading newspaper in the Canadian oil capital of Calgary, has said that Ball is “viewed as a paid promoter of the agenda of the oil and gas industry rather than as a practicing scientist.” ”
Climate scientist ‘duped to deny global warming’http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2031455,00.html“A Leading US climate scientist is considering legal action after he says he was duped into appearing in a Channel 4 documentary that claimed man-made global warming is a myth. Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the film, The Great Global Warming Swindle, was ‘grossly distorted’ and ‘as close to pure propaganda as anything since World War Two’.”
http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonline/responseto_channel4.htm
Look guys! I’m all for reducing polution, recycling, sustaining natural resources, wild life refuges, cleaning up pollution that exist, better efficencies and everything else.
I’m not towing the right’s line. I don’t agree with banning stem cell research, aborition, gay marriage and everything else.
But Man Made Global Warming and the impeeding doom of Global Warming is complete BS.
Is global warming happening? Yes! Is it because of SUV’s? No!
And I’m a person that wouldn’t buy an SUV to save my life.
Cosmos! From your same link.
‘Carl Wunsch was most certainly not “duped” into appearing in the film, as is perfectly clear from our correspondence with him. Nor are his comments taken out of context. His interview, as used in the programme, perfectly accurately represents what he said.’
Channel 4 said: ‘We feel it is important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the scientists featured now has concerns about his contribution, we will look into it in the normal way.’
Watch it! Judge for yourself.
You afraid?
I watched “An Inconvient Truth” and the “Global Warming” special on Discovery Channel. Read numorous articles and links that Ben submitted.
Joe Williams,
Some more info to give to your children,The real science, ‘Swindled!’http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2007/03/the_great_global_warming_swind.php
Of course, you don’t really need to give it to your children.
They’ll either learn about it themselves in the future — or climate on Earth will be so messed up that it wont matter.
None of the scientist aired in the documentary ever made any claim that global warming doesn’t exist.
It was the CO2 relationship and the emissions from cars and industry that had no relationship to global warming.
A very good way to end the day:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399921,00.html
Cosmos! All they are doing is picking apart the charts used on the documentary. Without any references to their counter claim, nor any significant information to say anything else, in reality, they agreed with the information presented in the Documentary. They just question some of the charts, because there are some alternatives.
That means that Gores charts can be questioned in the same way. There isn’t anything diffinative.
They also only questioned a very small porition of the documentary. Meaning they have no counter to the majority of what the documentary points out.
You’re Science Blog site has no merit. First sentence: I’m not going to see it.
The strange correlation of the Religous Man Made Global Warmingnites is that they tied the whole hysteria to Margaret Thatcher.
Kind of a good source of info with scientific research references.
http://friendsofscience.org/index.php
Joe Williams,
“‘Carl Wunsch was most certainly not “duped” into appearing in the film,…”
Okay, Joe, please post your explanation on how the ‘Swindle’ film ACCURATELY described Carl Wunsch’s opinion below. And give hardcopies to your children.
(emphasis added)http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonline/“I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost SURELY has a MAJOR human-induced component.”
I am NOT “afraid” to watch ‘Swindle’. But it’s old, tired, BORING BS from discredited skeptics, that has been completely debunked.
Your failure to recognize that does NOT make ‘Swindle’ a credible film.
And whatever opinion re AGW you pass on to YOUR children is YOUR responsibilty… NOT mine.
Joe?
You said:
“Look guys! I’m all for reducing polution, recycling, sustaining natural resources, wild life refuges, cleaning up pollution that exist, better efficencies and everything else”
GOOD Joe! That’s enough. Not everybody is on baord that human caused CO2 global warming is real. You don’t have to be. Just do what you are doing. Save yourself money on your energy bills. Embrace alternatives.
Hey I like you am not religious. But I do unto others etc etc.
I don’t care WHY you do the right thing. Just do it.
But DO worry and research the future of the world your kids will grow up in.
Joe Williams,
“Kind of a good source of info with scientific research references.”
You really believe that FOS is a “good source”? Then type “friends of science” into the search box at http://desmogblog.com/
And pass the info in those links on to your children, etc…
cosmos! Please provide another link to your source.
It gave me a forbidden access page.
I don’t find blog sites credible sources. Extremely bias.
Again! I advocate cleaner enviroments, less polution, alternative energy, electric cars, better efficencies and everything else. I also believe the climate is getting warmer. I’ve notice that since I was a young teenager, before people starting getting on the fad of global warming cultism.
I’m probably more resourceful and greener than you Cosmos. All my applicances are Energy Star, I recycle, even parishables for composte, hell…I even have an electric moped.
But for every link you give of offsites and blogs critising the documentary, I can find equal that for Al Gore’s as well.
Also Cosmos! You have to read your own links, especially the ones written straight from Carl Wunsch himself.
Such as: “it is very difficult to separate human induced change from natural change, certainly not with the confidence we all seek. ”
“The science of climate change remains incomplete.”
And so on! He felt he was misquoted from the documentary, because he thought they might give more information about sea level rising.
But he was one out of many promenant scientist on that documentary. In all documentaries, somebody always feels mislead or misquoted. If he is the only one out of the many who were on there, that’s still pretty good reporting.
Al Gore’s movie, there are also scientist who felt misquoted, some of his theories have been discredited and so on.
Give and take.
Reduce CO2? Sure! Lets do it!
Let’s shut down industry, wreck the economy and turn the world into leftist dominating governments and shut your eyes on China and India pollution by concentrating the woes of Man Made Global Warming as the stick to beat the message?
Sorry! Not going there.
I think that Global Warming is a good thing. Of course, too much warming is a bad thing. But how can we stop natural climate warming? Shuting off the spigots of every CO2 exhast pipe isn’t going to do it.
Sure! Man made activities probably can be attibuted to a minute factor. But 100% cause of climate change? Not one scientist will agree with that.
Be green! But live, read, learn!
Joe Williams,
I don’t know why you can’t access DeSmogBlog — maybe it was offline?Another source,http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Friends_of_Science
And for accurate science,http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
I agree with Carl Wunsch’s “certainly” comment.
And I agree with his main point: “I believe that climate change is real, a major threat, and almost surely has a MAJOR human-induced component.”
Joe: “But he was one out of many promenant scientist on that documentary.”
You should check the credentials and funding of the others in ‘Swindle’. Wunsch is the only credible one.
Joe: “I think that Global Warming is a good thing.”
The Inuits disagree — their life is melting away with the Arctic ice. People along the oceans will disagree, when the sea level rises.
Joe: “Man made activities probably can be attibuted to a minute factor. But 100% cause of climate change? Not one scientist will agree with that.”
Strawman. The IPCC says radiative forcing from human-added greenhouse gases is about TEN times stronger than the increase in solar.
A factor of TEN is NOT “minute”.
And if solar IS getting stronger, that’s even MORE reason to cut human-added GHG’s.
Joe: “Of course, too much warming is a bad thing. But how can we stop natural climate warming?”
We CAN’T stop more heat being absorbed when there’s less ice and snow.
We CAN’T stop GHG’s escaping from thawing tundra.
We CAN’T stop warmer air from holding more water vapor.
We CAN’T stop less CO2 being absorbed when oceans warm, and there’s less phytoplankton.
Which is WHY we need to cut human-added GHG’s, to avoid the “tipping point”, where natural forces cause unstoppable warming.
Joe
You do a lot of describing of what others have said about “An Inconvenient Truth?
Last I asked you, you had not seen it.
Probably a good idea to see something for yourself as opposed to taking the word of others, don’t you think?
Oh and it is not “Al Gore’s movie”. It is a documentary made by an independent film maker that showcases Al Gore’s efforts to educate the public about global climate change and what we can do to decrease human contribution to it.
ksgrm has ccmmitted to seeing the film. You should too.
Hey, if their is even the smallest chance of making a difference in the lives of your kids? I’d think you would feel COMPELLED to see it.
You’ll see that the film makes no great demands of us. It just asks that we change how we think. In the end, addressing global warming proactively is GOOD for the US.
See the film. It is out on dvd and is featured this month on Showtime. I didn’t know before, but I understand there is a book as well.
J R,
I like Gore’s book more than the DVD. The book, 325+ pages, has more details. The idea for the book came from Tipper, before the movie was suggested to him.
It has some powerful photos and graphs… but I wish it had an index.
People who don’t like Gore can easily flip past the pages with the bio info of him, family, etc.
J R,”Probably a good idea to see something for yourself as opposed to taking the word of others, don’t you think?”
I think that is what Joe is doing isn’t it? Viewpoint is important. Looking at a star with and without a telescope both have merit and levels of understanding.
If that is the standard, then Cosmos needs to take your advice by not taking the ‘just’ words of just the Al Gore and his mafia.
Republican,
“then Cosmos needs to take your advice by not taking the ‘just’ words of just the Al Gore and his mafia.
I take the words of people like these,’Appendix III – Contributors to the IPCC WGI Third Assessment Report’http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/558.htm
The words of Fred Singer, Patrick Michaels, Philip Stott, Patrick Moore, Richard Lindzen, Tim Ball, etc.?
That’s like trying to look at a star thru a telescope with a kaleidoscope attached to it. They give BS and lies that have been debunked by many credible, peer-reviewed scientists.
We will see.
I got other things to worry about. I’ll leave the Global Warming fiasco to people like you, who care.
Just don’t take my Fiero away, and I’ll be cool.
heh heh Joe.
The twins are gonna take the Fiero away! You don’t know that?
Your heart is in the right place as you have told us that you are environmentally conscious. That’s a good start. Just either see the film or stop saying that you welcome global warming.
And hope that your grandkids don’t ask you one day, “Grampa? What was snow?”
Cosmos,
See, that’s the attitude I don’t like from Gore’s mafia. Maybe they are right, but you don’t go around destroying Scientists’ reputation and careers, just because you have something different to say.
If the science was absolutely strong enough then there were be no dispute at all. The problem is, is that there is a dispute on the methodology of global warming and some of the statistics they used.
I’m a very cautious person – I believe in climate change, but not going to jump in head first
I’m going to test the waters, there is no rush.