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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted March 14, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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136 Comments
O the Farmer in O DellO the Farmer in O DellHi Ho the Wally OThe Farmer in O Dell
I was reading Cal Thomas’ piece today, and I am a bit surprised about the tone of the content. Is it a rare moment, or is it edited? I surely hope for the former.
I attended the mayorial candidates debate yesterday at Wichita Independent Business Association’s (WIBA) luncheon yesterday noon. It’s obvious that both current mayor, Carlos Mayans, and current city councilman, Carl Brewer, are passionate about winning this contest between these two experienced local politicians.
I am convinced the best outcome would be to retain both Mayans and Brewer on the city council for another term.
This could be done by re-electing Mayans as mayor which would retain Carl Brewer in his current city council position for remaining two years of his four year term.
The alternative, if Carl Brewer wins the mayor’s contest, would be to lose the government experience of Mayans as mayor and former state legislator. It would also open up another second contest in selecting a newcomer to fill Carl Brewer’s then vacant seat.
With so many critical problems facing the Wichita city government, there is little time to break in a rookie in that vacant council position.
JWink – with the vitriol displayed yesterday (I only saw snippets on the news) can they work together on a Council? Might they be rendering Wichita ungovernable?
Make ready for a loud remark!
GMC70
I’ve got a question for you regarding the Parker V District of Columbia ruling if you’ve got a few to spare.
Heck:
I’ve got a few Prelims this morning; might haved some time to spare later in the morning. Interesting case; it’s worth a read. The majority opinion SHREADS the “collective rights” fallacy of the 2nd amendment. But it’s only a step toward full recognition of this part of our constitutional heritage.
Read the opinion.
GMC70
I read about 90 percent of it, kind of skimmed some of the techincal legal mumbo-jumbo.
Question 1.- There are many statements by the Framers that (in my opinion) make their intent very clear, that the Second Amendment applies to the individual. The majority opinion does not reference any of them. Why? Are they not considered valid sources of authority? Are they not relevant for judicial purposes? They reference Blackstone, they reference British Common Law,American Common Law. Why not the men that wrote the damn thing? Or did they not reference them because they did not feel it necessary?
Vaugh Tolle
Feel free to weigh in on the question I addressed to GMC.
So, the Dem’s budget leaves in tax breaks and war funding. Interesting.
http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Senate+Democrats%27+budget+leaves+war+funding+intact+-+USATODAY.com&expire=&urlID=21528127&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2Fwashington%2F2007-03-13-budget_N.htm%3Fcsp%3D34&partnerID=1660
Spin Doctors! On your mark, get set, GO!
Heck, I’ve got appointments today, and working on a variety of matters. I’ve not read the opinion, so I’ll wait to respond until I have time to read the opinion.
March 14,
Dear WEBlog editors—
Thank you for setting up this public blog in which readers can post their views. It is an excellent concept.
But in practice, it needs serious improvement.
As it is now, a poster can steal people’s nicknames and seem to make them say things totally contrary to their beliefs. This has resulted in many misunderstandings and angry responses.
A poster can use a variety of nicknames and seem to be more than one person. Because nic-switching is so easy, any check on the truth of what a “pop-up” poster is saying is virtually impossible.
Racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs of the most vile nature are hurled with impunity. Some posters have even followed through on trying to meet another who has offended them . . . and it wasn’t to shake hands.
We believe the ONLY way to address the problem is some kind of registration. For instance, if post-ers were required to provide a real e-mail address (not a free web address such as yahoo or hotmail), The Eagle could insure that only one user name would be registered for each e-mail account.
Areas of particular concern are as follows:
-Name stealing trolls-One user posting under multiple ID’s-Racist / sexist / homophobic language-Threats of “payback” in real life-Threats of violence or harm-Demands to meet “in person”-Violations of privacy or confidentiality
We request that the Eagle look into a way the problems stated above can be corrected.
We the undersigned have opted to boycott the WEBlog as a demonstration of our desire for change in the way the WEBlog is managed. We look forward to time when the WEBlog can be as edifying and educational as it was meant to be.
Sincerely,
Tracy, WSClark, Mary Caruso, WichiWoman, KSFrmGrrl, Steven Davis, gdub, Ben Huie, XXX, .morg, CapnAmerica, gster, Julie, CF, mrcontroversy, RD, lindainks
Dear WEBlog editors,
Try not to be such lefties.
Wow, so this band of lefties is gone? …this could be fun.
“Racist / sexist / homophobic language-Threats of “payback” in real life-Threats of violence or harm-Demands to meet “in person””
How shall we define line #1?Lines 2-4 are ignorable.
IF this so-called boycott letter is true, I find it quite hilarious that some (not all) of the people complaining are the very ones “hurling” those insults around…
Such arrogance. They think this little blog is for them. I find that letter hilarious….if that’s really from them.
Or, perhaps it is a letter from a master troller. That might be even more hilarious.
Chuckle…”Fists of Freedom”?
I agree with some of the concerns, but really, “Fists of Freedom”? You guys take yourselves much too seriously.
…if it is from them….you know they must be sitting back and watching and pressing F5 frantically.
Ok, stupid question… What does F5 do?
Fleetwood,
I think the term “faggot-nigger-babe” would qualify for #1.
But I’m only kidding.
F5=refresh web page
Has anyone seen the point spread for KU-Niagra?
Nope, not a basketball fan.
Niagra? Heck, that could be a joke and I don’t know it. That’s how much of a basketball fan I’m not.
Do you have your bracket filled out fleettwood? I’m really thinking about taking Texas over North Carolina in the East semis. What do you think?
I’m doing it now. Texas is strong, but you can’t blow 22 point leads. Go with NC
That what I was thinking Ben. Can these two even get along.
The whole Exchange Place riff was the cause of it all. But Mayans was the only decenting vote on it.
I agreed with Mayans, but the Exchange Place is empty and deteriating. I’m glad somebody took an interest in converting it and putting it to use. But using TIF’s now are kind of going a bit far.
Everybody wants to use TIF’s now. I even read that Maize is going to do that for the IMAX theater.
I can’t believe an IMAX is coming to Maize. But I think it’s cool. I’ll go.
Man, 3 days in a row with morning fog. I shall call it “global fogging” and begin my panik.
I filled out a bracket, but I’ll admit that I don’t know much about basketball – I enjoy watching it live if I have the chance but don’t follow the teams. And a few of my choices were sentimental – either friends or family went to school there.
Wow – the board seems to have taken a turn for the better. I hope this lasts.
I was reading through some other threads and was pleasantly surprised to find folks were stayin ON TOPIC, and that the intellectual level has taken a big jump. It was nice to be able to read the legal ideas from the attorneys without having to wade through 50 posts of nothing more than “…..hahahahahehehehe….”
But I WILL miss Ben. He really tried to have good discussions. And I’ll miss Linda – I liked and valued her input.
I think we have a real shot now of attracting some posters here who want to discuss issues and not just sling mud.
Wooooohooooo
It’s gonna be a great day!
Anybody want to fight? We’ll meet behind the church after skool. No sharp sticks.
It is pleasent isn’t it.
I’ll fight you fleetwood!
I say Fleetwood Mac is better than Bob Dylan! Come on! Bring it!
“We look forward to time when the WEBlog can be as edifying and educational as it was meant to be.”
Kind of like this:
“As usual, Fleet Idiot, you are 100% full of shit. How can you stand yourself, knowing that you just make up shit and recite right wing talking points?
When I read your posts, my first thoughts are that I am very sorry that you were born so damned stupid.
Posted by: WSClark | March 13, 2007 at 08:41 PM ”
Or this:
“Somebody famous once said that not all CONservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are CONservative.
Fleettwood sure bears that one out, doesn’t he?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | March 13, 2007 at 09:11 PM”
Anybody else pissed at all the people running red lights these days? Man! Every intersection I wait at I see some. I’m ready for a police crackdown on that.
“We the undersigned have opted to boycott the WEBlog as a demonstration…”
They cut and run in their personal lives too. Maybe they will move to Paris.
-Name stealing trolls-One user posting under multiple ID’s-Racist / sexist / homophobic language-Threats of “payback” in real life-Threats of violence or harm-Demands to meet “in person”-Violations of privacy or confidentiality
We request that the Eagle look into a way the problems stated above can be corrected.
We the undersigned have opted to boycott the WEBlog as a demonstration of our desire for change in the way the WEBlog is managed. We look forward to time when the WEBlog can be as edifying and educational as it was meant to be.
Sincerely,
Tracy, WSClark, Mary Caruso, WichiWoman, KSFrmGrrl, Steven Davis, gdub, Ben Huie, XXX, .morg, CapnAmerica, gster, Julie, CF, mrcontroversy, RD, lindainks
Posted by: Fists of Freedom | March 14, 2007 at 09:14 AM
ROFL! ROFL! ROFL! ROFLMAO!KICKS FLOOR IN ECTASY! ROFLMAO!
hahahahahahahahahaha. Good one fleetwood. You’re right.
here’s a tribute to farmie:
heeheeeheeheehehehheehahahahahahah
Fleet~~ Good post @ 10:18.Hope the WEBlog Editors take a minute to read that.Also, those that ’signed’ that letter will not go away. They will continue to read the posts and when they finally froth over, they will create a new ID and rejoin the blog.
Maybe we should start taking bets on how long it takes them to rejoin… I’ve got today at 2:35 pm!
Actually, there are a few of those that I really miss from some of these conversations, the ones that actually had things to contribute and weren’t completely rude about it…
They will continue to read the posts and when they finally froth over, they will create a new ID and rejoin the blog.Posted by: Sanford | March 14, 2007 at 10:40 AM
Wouldn’t that be trolling and posting under multiple identities? (shocked look on face)
Hallelujah!!! Loved your comment there, Fleet! Yep..those quotes were certainly “edifying”!
Sorry to see that Ben has joined the list, tho. His level head and insightful comments have always been refreshing.
And yes, SOB, I totally agree with you on that. I have traveled to all 50 states, every major and many mid sized cities in this country, and have never seen as many red light/stopsign violators as I regularly see here.
RFN..I will bet on 7PM today…
Weird, same day as this boycott from the lefties I see all kinds of new NICs posting. Perhaps it is just a coincidence.
And look here at their hypocrisy, they left a parting troll on my behalf. Ain’t that cute…
“Make ready for a loud remark!”Posted by: RepubliKhan | March 14, 2007 at 07:49 AM
(a)Should I run away and cry?(b)Should I wield the mighty non-protest sign and demonstrate?(c)Should I just ignore it and flick it away like a fly.
Ding ding ding! Correct answer is C! You win self-esteem!Yay!!!
“Fists of Freedom”???? Cute!
Freedom is the very least of some of that group’s concerns; ironically, some of those very posters were among the worst at the offenses they complain about.
Some will be missed, but on balance: no great loss, perhaps good riddance.
See ya.
Now – on to the business at hand.
Hank – This is kinda off the top of my head, and I’ll probably screw part of it up, rethink it, or end up repudiating part of it, – BUT here goes, as I think about it:
As a general rule, the writings (outside of their “official” writings) of individual legislators, even founders, carries relatively little weight with judges who describe themselves as textualists. The majority’s writer (Silberman) appears to be so. Textualists (and I consider myself one) believe that intent is contained in the language of the text, and the meaning of the words of the actual text, as understood by the language and writers of the day, is controlling. Not the intent of any particular writer. After all, members of Congress vote for or against particular legislation for all kinds of reasons which may have nothing to do with the legislation, and a particular legislator’s intent is meaningless; a single legislator, no matter how influentual, has no authority. Only the body carries authority.
So, while those writings can certainly inform intent, they are useful (to a textualist) only to inform the text as to the understood meaning of the words used by the contempraries of the writers. The intent of any particular legislator is irrelevent.
The problem of ferreting out intent from writings also leads to the problem of essentially “cherry picking” the quotes to get the desired result. It is stronger and more persuasive (and I think the opinion is quite persuasive as a matter of constitutional law and application) to focus on the language of the constitution and its legal roots. And Silberman wasn’t writing for you or me, he was writing to convince at least five justices on the SCOTUS. And textualism is strong on the high court.
I think the real interesting question at the SCOTUS level is not whether the 2nd is an individual right, it is whether the SCOTUS holds that the right is incorporated against the states. We’re up against the partial incorporation doctrine, a piece-of-crap doctrine if there ever was one.
Frankly, given the language of the 2nd as well as that of the other bill of rights, it’s hard to argue the collective rights position with a straight face. U.S. v. Miller, the only prior SCOTUS precedent remotely on point, is also consistent with an individual rights reading. Will the high court do the right thing, take the case, and decide that the 2nd Am. means what it says? We’ll see.
Not sure if I understood all of that GMC70, will have to read it a couple of times I think. But I did get the last paragraph and think it’s an interesting observation on our part.
Heck, I’ll join in GMC’s “off the top of the head” remarks, as the same are consistent with what I would have posted.
I join with GMC in the desire for SCOTUS to take the case, given the sharp disagreement among the circuits which have ruled on the issue, and provide something (always succeptible to legislative overrule by Congress) which tells us whether the Second Amendment right is truly individual or collective.
GMC: I had a thought while reading the opinions; it derives from the sanctity of the home which has been given plenty of supporting language in past SCOTUS opinions. Cutting to the chase, the 2d Amendment right allows an individual to keep arms in the home, subject to reasonable restriction, for self-defense, etc., but is not so absolute as to bar restrictions on concealed carry (approved in prior SCOTUS jurisprudence) by the states, proscriptions on the possession of fully automatic weapons, sawed off shotguns; all of which have seemingly been upheld directly or by fair inference in the paucity of prior 2d Amendment cases. What do you think? My thought is based on the seeming practice of SCOTUS (excluding, inter alia Marbury v. Madison) to keep its decisions on constitutional issues as narrow as possible.
BTW, the dissent was not well done, IMHO.
I promise to cut back on the lawyer jokes, THANKS for the information!
I love the ability to actually learn something of value here!!
A bit more on “leislative intent”; adopting GMC’s disclaimer here as well.
Generally, when looking to legislative intent, the courts will refer to committee reports, and other “official” writings. Occasionally, the remarks of an individual Senator or Congressman will be cited, generally where the individual was a member of the committee and speaking on the floor as to something in the report itself, and not as to his/her individual intent.
VT:
I don’t think the SCOTUS can adopt the “collective-militia” approach with a straight face. But they’ve been badly wrong before, and recently (Kelo, Roper).
However, as you do, I don’t think that prevents reasonable regulation, just as a robust 1st amendment doesn’t prevent time-place-manner restriction. Just where will those lines be?
Well, Silberman’s opinion gives a pretty good idea. Artillary was clearly not included in the “keep and bear arms” practice of 1789, so individuals keeping grenades, mortars, or as one writer here a facetiously posted, nukes, are gonna be out. Registration could be permitted, as could barring carry. I don’t think most gun owners would mind registration too much IF it is accompanied by a clear and unequivocal ruling guaranteeing a right to keep and bear. We CERTAINLY don’t trust ANY registration scheme in the absence of such a clearly defined right (too many politicians talking out the sides of their mouths with “reasonable regulation” blather, even as they plan to ban).
Full auto weapons are clearly useful infantry weapons, so is could be argued that full-auto weapons are constitutionally permitted, but could certainly be regulated (they are legal now under Federal law, under certain very severe restrictions, but not in Kansas). Weapons protected would include the usual handgun/rifle of the type commonly employed.
All of this, of course, is just IMHO, and kinda off the top of the head. And it all depends on the SCOTUS fully adopting incorporation, as they should.
Gosh, we could even breath life into the 9th amendment!!! Wouldn’t that be a shame. (NOT).
While we’re dreaming, how ’bout actually having a commerce clause which means something again, and as a result, a federal government with real limits to its power? Pinch me.
Sorry – silly fantasies kicked it there. God forbid that we interpret a document designed to limit government to actually limit government.
GMC70,
Hasn’t the ninth amendment been used by Abortion Rights advocates because they feel that certain rights outlined by the Constitution does not mean that certain rights are not allowed by the Constitution?
Not sure if I phrased that correctly, but do you consider the possibly that certain rights not necessarily named in the Constitution can be assigned rights by default? Or is my interpretation just a loose interpretation of what defines the Constitution?
GMC and VT
Thanks.
Another question I had but didnt know how to ask- GMC said “it is whether the SCOTUS holds that the right is incorporated against the states. We’re up against the partial incorporation doctrine”
Could you explain this a little more? Does this have to do with the 14th amendment?
Randy Barnett of Georgetown U law discusses this a little at the following link. His is the first commentary.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzVlYTU4NmFmMzI3MDkxMzg0MjUwZDVmY2YxM2I5YmU=
VT
I was re-reading your last post, and this struck me:
“I join with GMC in the desire for SCOTUS to take the case, given the sharp disagreement among the circuits which have ruled on the issue, and provide something (always succeptible to legislative overrule by Congress) which tells us whether the Second Amendment right is truly individual or collective.”
Please tell me you didn’t mean what it appears you said. If, indeed, the 2nd amendment protects an individual right (and clearly the better argument is that it does), that means that Congress may NOT overrule that right by legislation! Congress may regulate the exercise of the right, withing constitutional limitations, but may not legislate it out of existance.
Am I missing something – did you mis-speak? Or do you understand a constitutionally protected (note- not created, but protected) right to be subject to Congress? Surely not.
GMC: my apologies; it was a mis-speak. I was thinking of a legislative overrule by proposing a constitutional amendment to be ratified by the several states (or not) which might overrule the decision. There was an unfortunate disconnect between the brain and the fingers that permitted the erroneous portion of cited post to appear, one so grievous that I did not apprehend its total incorrectness prior to pushing the “Post” button.
And, GMC, thank you for calling this to my attention; otherwise, I would need to retake Constitutional Law methinks.
I’m curious oh “fists of freedom” gang, it this a binding or non-binding boycott?
Heck:
This is without benefit of review, research, etc. so bear with me.
Yes – it’s all about the 14th Amendment. The 14th, particularly the Due Process and Privileges and Immuntities clauses, essentially applied the rights contained in the Bill of Rights to the States. That was certainly it’s intent. The original constitution and BOR, as I’m sure you know, applied only as a limitation on the Federal govt. That changed post-Civil War with the 14th amendment, designed to protect the rights of former slaves against the state governments determined to reimpose slavery under a different name.
Unfortunately, the South had no intention of protecting those rights, and the SCOTUS, in the Slaughterhouse Cases (spit) gutted the protections of the 14th amendment, essentially saying it didn’t mean what it said. Years of legal segregation, discrimination, and yes slavery under a different name, followed. Shameful.
With the civil rights revolution of the 50’s and 60’s, incorporation doctrine came back into fashion, and selective incorporation became the norm, but only guaranteeing certain “fundamental” rights against the states. This meant some rights were, some weren’t.
What does all this have to do with the 2nd? The 2nd Am. has never been held to be incorporated against the States. I have read one writer actually advocate upholding the Parker decision, but not incorporating it – effectively ignoring, again, the 14th amendment. While such an approach is politically expedient (it passes the buck to the state legislatures to do as they please), it’s not constitutionally sound.
I hope this makes some sense. It’s kinda hurried, and my luch hour is rapidly ending!!
GMC
Makes sense. Thanks for taking the time.
Liberal Bloggers tend to be entertainment bloggers. Not to disenfranchise the hard coreLiberal as they usually mean what they say and say what they mean.
I’m talking about the blogger who uses a Blog as a social event.
Their type of social interaction is often not viewed by those on the right as reasonable. Infact, this is the cause of much of the tension between Liberal Left and Right Wing bloggers;
tension on the point of reasonable-ness.
Where I think Liberal Bloggers go wrong, is their incessant attacks and re-attacks on a subject orperson. Instead of making their point and moving on, they will kick that ‘dead horse’ and thenlater re-incarnate it in many forms using convoluted twists of logic.
They justify their rude behavior by using a concept called “Group Think.” Group think means that even though the what is being discussed might not have any factual basis or it may not serve a constructive purpose, the Group will join together and apply it like a tornado through a china factory.
They will literally tear down, de-moralize, demean, de-construct and generally cause mayhem onany person, subject, place or thing that gets in the way of their “Group Think.’
This of course is nothing but mob mentality and leads to a course of destruction.
Now in the defense of thinking Liberals, they have plenty to say and usually say it with greatemotion and zeal. These are the thinking Liberals that anyone would enjoy conversation with.
These are the free thinkers that integrate with our society so beautifully and enhance itsdiversity.
“Group think” Liberal Blogging has to go. We don’t need mob mentality that decries their suppression of freedom of speech then turns around and tries to deny it to others that may not think like them.
I just now read that letter to WeBlog editors.
There’s at least 4 of those singnitors who this forum would be better off without. Some of them simply have nothing constructive to add to ANYTHING. Some, while certainly intelligent, are quick to drop civil debate and join in the “Tornado” through the china factory.
Most would be missed.
VT -
I thought so. And, lord, my disconnect between brain (what little there is) and fingers – and sometimes mouth – is always a problem.
We all want to say what we mean and mean what we say, of course. But sometimes English (or my typing skills) is a poor communicator of thoughts.
Cheerio. Court is about to kick in again – I’ll try to check back later this afternooon.
Well said Khan.
Honestly, I have seen many many “right” or conservative bloggers on here who are JUST AS IF NOT MORE SO DEMEANING In their statements… To classify the problem as solely “liberal” or “left” is patently inaccurate… something to bear in mind…
While what you say has some validity, Wendy..look at how civil and informative this has been today since the ‘protest’. It is simply amazing that there have been no insults, no acrimony, and no attacks at all.
Well, I’m actually kinda ambivilent about a boycott. On several levels! (Is that possible?)
Anyone that has been to the two meetups at the Eagle has to realize that the editors don’t have much control over the posts or won’t police the posts. I think a boycott is a little silly.
There are posters that can’t refer to a conservative poster or conservative slanted post without some demeaning statement. I generally ignore them. Then I try not to call people too many names. However, after being called Reich-wing, Phred Phelps, CONservative, on and on, ad infinitum,…..well, I’m weak. I apologize if I offend with my language. When you are offended with my ideas and opinions, that’s your problem!
If you don’t like someone’s language don’t encourage them with a response.
As far as meeting someone goes, the first BLOG meetup was a result of me inviting one of the liberal antagonists to “do lunch”. It wasn’t a threat, but its amazing how many people on the BLOG took it that way!
Boycott? Silly! The way to clean up the BLOG is to do right your ownself and ignore those that don’t!
Hank
Right on, Hank!
Great post on observation Hank.
As far as I’m concerned the boycotter’s can come back with no prejudice attached.
I would just remind them, that the greatest in our society comes from intellectual, philosophical, beliefs, preferences of all kinds and ethnicity.
To harp on any of the above for too long and too loud discourages productive conversation. To develop compromise through convincing argument is the way to make our country strong.
Forcing something down someone’s throat is not the way to go nor is Group Think mob mentality.
If someone has a different opinion, hey that’s America folks.
No need to add insult because there is a different opinion.
When you think about it, it is not surprising that liberals would respond to a perceived problem with a pseudo-union blogger action.
I’ll miss some of you strikers. Some I wish would stay away. But I know you won’t.
While I agree with all of that – many many times (and I am NOT saying this doesn’t happen on both sides of the aisles – because it DOES) I myself have been the target of an attack for nothing other than have “too liberal” of an opinion about something – and no, i am not going to go searching for the exact instance, but I can recall it with clarity, and fleetwood actually started the deragatory statements, at which point some of the other “liberal” posters joined in defending me… I think name calling and the like is childish and ridiculous among adults… but to throw out a disclaimer that we all have the right to our own opinion, when too many times you have attacked someone for nothing more than their opinion yourself, is rather hypocritical to me… now, I enjoy a good debate as much as the next person, and I am perfectly happy arguing ideals with anyone anytime, but yeah, i am going to bite back if you bite me first – perhaps a bad attitude to have, but it has happened to me too many times when I have however innocently posted my personal opinion that someone else disagreed with – and for the record, i consider myself middle of the road, as i have certain views that EITHER side would disagree with (and I have already had this particular debate with fleetwood, which I don’t care to repeat again, but as I recall, my response to his questions as to my views is on one of the Iraq War threads…)
It’s going to be a loss for WEBlog if the boycott occurs. Many blogs require people to enter a password, and if trollers try to post using other people’s nics but they don’t have the right password, they get blocked out. WEBlog needs to implement this.
In the book, “Little Big Man” (which by the way was a lot better than the movie) (not that it wasn’t a good movie, the book was just a lot better!) the old indians would decide that it was a good day to die.
They would go around and make their peace with everyone, say their goodbyes and go out into the woods and sit down under a tree and wait for the great spirit to come and take them.
They might be out there praying and fasting for a day or two or maybe a lot longer and often as not they wouldn’t die. They might get hungry, cold or hell, maybe just bored. They would come back to the village and just blend in like nothing had ever happened.
I would be less than honest if I was to tell you I won’t miss some of the ‘boycotters’. Not much, life goes on, and like most, I suspect, I BLOG more to let you guys know what I think, not to find out what you think! So.. if they want to come back, I, for one, am willing to let them blend in….maybe.
Hank
“…but I can recall it with clarity, and fleetwood actually started the deragatory statements,…”
I call shenanigans! Your derogatory may be incorrect. Pleased to be refreshing my memory.
I’m not inviting them back. If they do come back, it will be more evidence of lib’s “all talk and no action” gameplan. But, I suspect they will in this “non-binding” boycott of theirs. Either way, I find it hilarious.
I’m on a couple of old submariner BBSs and we have to register and use a password to post and on one to even get in and read.
Now I’m talking about submarine sailors. Our idea of messing with someone is to cut off their foot and watch them go around in circles.
We are polite, civil and we have liberals, conservatives, independents and a few that don’t care about politics. We talk on all kinds of subjects and we can put each other down without foul language or mentioning their ancestry.
Some of the best political discussions that I get in on a day-to-day basis are on those BBS’s.
Now I guess what annoys me more about the boycott than anything is the implication that the ‘offended ones’ aren’t part of the problem. It’s the implication that the ones that are left here are the threateners, the name callers, etc.
In the great words of the farmgrrl, Buhbye!
I still love ya,
Hank
Hey Hank,
I used to run a BBS. Didn’t know what I was doing, but was fun. I had some junky games on it and there was a comment section. But it did require a password and I had to approve them.
If they got out of line with bad words or misconduct (there were a lot of kids) there they went – booted out the door.
Very few asked to come back and never had another problem with them once they returned
Let’s see if I have this right. A few (very few) contributors to this blog, (who all seem to share a political viewpoint) have told the editors of the paper how to run this blog. If their ‘conditions’ are not met, the people who have a bit of history of being disruptive, rude, insulting and at times very immature…will not come back.
And..this is a ‘threat’?
I call it heaven!!!!! Let’s see if they stick by their “threat”…
Come on raptor,
If the ol’ indians get bored all alone under their tree, let’s let them come back.
Hank
I definitely have to agree with Wendy on this: 1.)This is not solely a “liberal” problem. I would considerate myself moderate and have been attacked by members from both sides of the aisle but I will say that some of those on the liberal side to seem to take it a bit further and longer than even those on the conservative side do. 2.)If someone attacks, the chances are quite high that I will attack back and maybe that’s not the right attitude but a human can only deal with so much crap before they retaliate. I’d also have to agree with Hank that the boycott is a bit silly but I would be more than able to welcome those bloggers back like nothing ever happened because we all deserve that and because I would really miss some of those guys and their opinions.
Is kinda nice though!
PUT THE BANANA ON THE TABLE AND SLOWLY BACK AWAY…
WASHINGTON — Banana company Chiquita Brands International was charged Wednesday with doing business with a terrorist organization.
Federal prosecutors said the company and several unnamed high-ranking corporate officers did business with the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia. The group is described in court documents as a violent right-wing organization that the U.S. has designated as a terrorist organization.
The company also did business with the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, according to prosecutors.
The payments were approved by senior executives at the Cincinnati-based company, prosecutors wrote in court documents. Corporate books were kept to conceal the deals, prosecutors said.FOXNEWS.COM
Repub,
No Faux news cut and paste. Media can’t be a complete cover for bad or illegal politics as that company does.
I’m actually quite fond of some them. I’ll tell ya why.
When we had that first meet up at Lake Afton, Mary Caruso and I spent a little time getting it all together. If you arrange a party and no one comes, it’s a real drag. I was very pleased with the turnout on a Thursday evening, especially when it was cold and windy!
We got together and everyone brought something and we all had a good time. I would start listing all of the things that were brought, but I might forget someone and hurt their feelings. (I know you boycotters are reading this so I’m trying to still be sensitive!)
I will mention that ksfarmgrrl came the farthest and she brought fried chicken and tater salad.
The ones that showed up that day I have a particualr warm spot for, hopefully we’ll all get together again, sooner rather than later!
Hank
Mrage,
So is anything from fox news invalid to you?
It’s great going a month without blogging. I did that. But time I was gone, others thought I changed nicknames.
I don’t care about blogging enough to ridicule others personally. Do this under another name.
We can all argue or discuss a topic, but some do it with malice or hatred.
Once clown doesn’t speak about anything but criticizes how I’m phrasing statements.
No one’s mind can really be changed anyway through this discussion.
Its been a sounding board to me, for all the ideas I have. Good ideas, bad ideas, whatever. I can take criticism and sometimes its appreciated. I shouldn’t get away with all my views.
SOB,
All political stories from Faux news, I don’t respect. News of events happening, I find other sources.
…I mean VALID to you?
Ok, I don’t understand why though. But that’s up to you.
SOB,
Faux news does some unforgivable political articles. So does the New York Times.
All news sources can have their bent political articles but Faux news is the worst, major media to act that way.
Challenge politics and the politicians don’t give cover to them. That’s media’s role.
ABC news used a reporter to give a Bush speech nearly word for word or before he would so the statements might sound intelligent. Bush was going to have a reasonable talk somewhere, the reporter said.
A lot of that talk, became reasons for war in Iraq. It was wrong. Weapons of Mass Destruction. Dead Enders. That stuff promoted by Bush and Cheney has hurt this country. Rumsfeld, fight the war with what we have, soldiers without enough armor on vehicles or themselves.
All media has the responsibility to challenge political talk. Keep the politicians in check.
I can say that I was able to read the other topics today and actually start to think about the opposite opinion. When you are constantly being yelled at you tune out the source of the annoyance. I will be gone for about 10 days. Please don’t think I am boycotting anything. I enjoy the discussions and find that different opinion stated in the right manner are refreshing.
I might be near a computer on my vacation and can ck to see who is still MIA.
Sure, Fox News isn’t perfect and neither are any of them. Sure, they have a conservative tilt. But I don’t think that makes them just plan invalid. You gotta admit that lots of the other major media have a liberl tilt. So, I look at Fox News as bringing some balance back. Just always have to consider the source from which the news comes…left or right.
I am not part of the demands. I am for an open forum. I’m not posting because the blog is pretty boring today and there is not much to comment on. I’ll get back to that.
I do not agree with their agenda. But I do understand and agree with why they are doing what they are.
The liberal side of this blog has always tried to police its own.
I got your back just the other day raptor. I don’t think there is a RESPECTABLE right wing poster I haven’t stood up for at one time or another.Some will remember the Tiahrt thread left side “civil” war. The base of it being the left trying to calm some of the more outrageous.
They are doing what they are doing because you all won’t police your own bloggers. You have to agree that most of the bad behavior is on your side of things. I had my nic stolen by someone posting racist rants the other day for instance. No one said a word. You have folks using racist language like “heb” on regular basis. They don’t get called on it by anyone who could get them to stop. You have posters who launch umprovoked ad hominem attacks that have nothing to do with the topic of a thread against posters who aren’t even ON that thread. I did see Hank defend KFG against one of those. But mostly they just go on. You have posters who use multiple nics and say the most vile of things. Really? You SHOULD fight these things. They make those on your side of ideals look bad to our moderate readers. And we do have readers.
Look at the blog today. The reason there are no attacks is your behavior cases have no one to attack. Watch them start in on me as soon as this goes up.
Look you on the right who value even spirited nasty debate over the chaos we have had the last several months. Look at the blog today. It’s dead. I hope the editors are looking too.
I hope you of the more respectable right speak up against those who have caused this. It would be a shame if the editors had to play baby sitter in order to allow this forum to work.
Now have at me. I mostly won’t answer cause it aint my fight. It’s yours.
One thing that Fox News does is have a rep from both sides.
Hi JR! Welcome!
Well Mrage, sorry about that. It was an AP Story, I was just quoting the Web Site where I got it from.
So, are AP stories okay to use or do I need turn down my sensitivity dial and post from exactly where?
Come on everyone….let’s hold hands.
I have no reason to attack you J R and hope your appearance will bring hope and reason with enduring enlightenment to your friends.
BTW, I find your posts J R quite intelligent and thought provoking.
Just heard it on CNN about the banana/terror connection.
Yes..JR did vouch for me recently, and I appreciate it. What I don’t appreciate is the atmosphere where such backing up and/or defense becomes necessary. Regardless of who did what first, this “boycott” sure has made things more civil around here!
Oh and editors?
Hank, outlander, heckler,kansassam, Nathan(if he were about), Mr Kia and some others might be interested in this one too.
Conservative Blogger SOB is two clicks from pornography.
If some kid reads one of his inane posts and clicks on his nic, they are redirected to a pornographic picture. Now I’m no prude but there are kids who read here. Would you all like to take care of that or do the editors have to?
tsk…there you go JR…calling me names.
Repub,
Just clip the story without the website mentioned. Some websites are bent politically, that causes the argument.
If you clip Faux news, your on that “side”. I don’t mind Republicans. But some are bent on the right, just like others are way left. In Kansas many Repubs aren’t getting along. Shows the fight between moderates and conservatives.
Dems can be conservative and still want fairness in society. Some parts of life are private.
Some are trying to rule personal choices when they talk about new amendments to the Constitution. I find that the most scary talk of all.
Hank – I can imagine that it’s easier to look past certain words and actions when you know the real person behind them. I almost went to the last meetup but I had somewhere else to be and I had only been reading/posting on here for a month or so, so I didn’t feel comfortable just showing up. Maybe next time…
JR – I see your point. And as I’ve already said today, it’s not a one-sided thing. But I don’t feel that I’m here to babysit every other blogger – unless someone wants to start paying me, then I would be more than willing to take on the job:) In all seriousness though, I’ve tried to defend people in the past and it usually only makes things worse.
A bare butt? We get more porn from the Libs. Ass-Tampon? What’s that?
Perhaps J R on SOB’s link. I think the appropriate place to comment on that is in the top left of every WE Blog page. That is, the email address of the Blog monitor. Or I’m sure you can contact Phillip Brownlee as he appears to be the main man for WE Blog stuff.
Besides, I ton’t think I would characterize SOB as conservative – Right Wing maybe.
- yell out to SOB -
SOB!!!!!!!!
JR -
First, welcome.
Second:
“You have to agree that most of the bad behavior is on your side of things.”
I most certainly do not have to agree to same. Note the level of discourse today – dull topics, true enough, but the nastiness only appeared when “Tom” (WS) showed up (again).
More important, bad behavior is bad behavior. Period. I’m responsible for policing no one but myself. And that “the other side” did it is no excuse and makes no difference.
You are not the problem, JR. Despite your generally inflated ego, you are a reasonable voice that (usually) coherently states your point of view. Despite our tiffs, you really do have my respect.
I have no respect for the other (mostly now gone) clowns (and certainly not all of our ‘boycotters’ fit that group). How they write screams so loudly I cannot hear what they say. And that is their loss more than mine, for how they “express” themselves says far more about them than anything else. Too bad.
Mrage,
Acknowledge your comments on quoting sources that might offend. Does that work two ways though? Should I object if I see DemocraticUnderground? Or am I not authorized to comment things on that.
I just want to know where my Blog posting rights stop and start. :)
I’m more of a Moderate than a Conservative. In fact, I like the positions of some Moderate Democrats better than I do some Republicans. Bill Richardson is a good example.
Well J R,
There are two types of people in the world, those that think there are two types of people and those that don’t.
As I explained earlier, I usually just ignore the people that I find offensive. It’s not my job to police this BLOG. And I don’t agree that most of the offenders are on the right.
What I find most offensive is some of the profane language. I do agree that the people on the left and right of things probably find different things offensive. Profanity doesn’t sem to bother the libs much though.
Anyway, glad to see ya here! I’ll try and not offend your sensibilities!
Hank
Hopefully I don’t come off sounding so cruel. However, I think not only should people be defended, but at the same time, words are just that words. However, if as said in the post above, some were “meeting” for things other than to meet(could be anything), then it is getting too far.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a registration being required, however, I’d be against requiring it to use a “real” email address, as I never give out my “real” email address to any public forum. I’ll give it to people after I’ve talked/type at them for a bit and am more comfortable with that person having the one I check fairly regularly.
On a much lighter note: how many people play World of Warcraft of other videogames? I’ve been working on my own little card game that will soon have Sudoku also. The card games are multiplayer and such, and sudoku will compete with how fast a player can solve it. (Though I’ve not exactly figured out a way to keep someone from cheating on that as there are plenty of sudoku solvers on the internet, one of which I’ve made for the challenge of making it).
Anyway, what if any games people play?
JR, Good for you for not going along with the crowd. I hope the strikers don’t consider you a scab!
Of course if the strikers follow WSClark’s lead in their resolve, it will all be back to status quo tomorrow.
Tell you what JR, since that picture is bothersome to you, you appologize for calling my posts inane and I’ll change it. Deal?
Danny, I tried WOW once and got my butt kicked badly.
I guess I went on the an expert server where there were PKers and got my clocked clean in about two minutes.
I gave the Box and software to my nephew. :)
Danny – I also wouldn’t mind some kind of registration, but don’t want to give out my email address to just anyone. That’s why I registered on the TypeKey, that way no one could steal my nic (woo hoo, three letters!) and no one would see my email.
Republican, I wouldn’t feel to bad. My mother in law actually does better at it than I do. That is a really hard pill to swallow there.
Danny-I love World of Warcraft (or Warcrack, it’s so addicting)Command and Conquer III will be out towards the end of March. Can’t wait.I’ll be the one who hasn’t showered, shaved, cut his hair or clipped his fingernails.
Good point AFN. Crawlers can’t post here, but they can certainly snatch your email address. Having a typekey or typepad account prevents that.
If someone doesn’t know, typekey is free and typepad charges you by trying to get you to buy a Blogging Website. The TypePad package is inexpensive, but hey if you can get online security for free, why not. :)
I’ll have to look into the TypeKey account then. I’ll have to give them my +spamTK@email.com account. Basically it will let me get the mail, but I can find out who gives/sells my email address that way.
What’s with the real email scare? I don’t get spam from blogging here.
GMAIL, Hotmail, Yahoo are real email addresses.
Danny,
I have Call of Duty 1 and 2
I hate multiplayer online. Won’t do it.
Battlechess, that old DOS game still works in XP.
Monster Truck Madness 2, people kept making custom tracks for it.Demo became a full version.
I let nieces play that.
Call of Duty looks great, tho I’ve never played it.
In 6 months on this blog, I’ve gotten 4 or 5 spams. My blog email is only for this, so it’s no big deal.
Mrage, anything you post here ends up in a cache on search engines like Google. That includes your email address. The search engines use crawlers to scan and grab what’s on web pages. It’s why searching works.
Now, there are also crawlers that crawl the search engines looking for email address.
These sophisticated crawlers will parse an email address out of a compiled list of crawled Web Sites or search engines, then they use it for their own purposes.
The Nigeria and other email scam artists are well know for doing this. You know, “Hello Friend, I am from …. I’m hoping you can help me out. There is 1,000,000 pounds in the UK Bank blah blah and etc.”
Anyway that’s my explanation. :)
Method used at Morningstar.com:
You register a ‘username’ (nic) and your true email address. Also choose a password. They then email a log-in to your email address. Once you activate that you can log on with your nic and password. The only thing that appears on the blog is the nic.
Since the nic is password protected nobody else can use it. I have seen people make up very similar ones (like we have Republikhan and now Republican here. Someone could do fletwood to troll fleettwood under their system but it gets noticed)
Hardtruth,
I am RepublicKhan.
Typekey gives you the advantage to change your screen name appearance. However, the link back always shows the original Typekey subscriber.
If you hover over the link in my name, you will see RepubliKhan. :)
Thanks for the clarification republican. But I think you acn see my point …
Now, just for fun …
WHEN TO PRAY AT WORK
When a co-worker comes in a little too happy singing “good morning” to everyone and you think, “Somebody needs to slap her silly”… You need to pray at work.
When someone comes in and announces, “office meeting in 5 minutes,” and you think, “what the heck do they want now?”….. You need to pray at work.
When your computer is mysteriously turned off and you want to say, “which one of you bozos turned off my computer?” …You need to pray at work.
When you and a co-worker are discussing something, and a third person comes in and says, “well at my last office…”, and you want to throw a stapler at him… You need to pray at work.
When you hear a co-worker call your name and the first thing that crosses your mind is, “what the hell does this jerk want now?” and you try to hide underneath your desk… You need to pray at work.
When you are asked to stay late and help do someone else’s work and the first thing that pops in your head is, “both of y’all can kiss my pitoutie!!”… You need to pray at work.
When you’re in the elevator and it stops to pick up someone who stood for five minutes waiting for the darn thing only to go DOWN one floor, and you say “that lazy fool”… You need to pray at work.
When you take some vacation time and come back to find a mountain of paperwork sitting on your desk because no one else would do it and you think, “sorry mule-headed M#$^%F%&#s”… You need to pray at work.
If you have ever thought about poisoning, choking, punching, slapping, someone or flattening someone’s tires that you work with…You need to pray at work.
If you avoid saying more than ‘hello’ or ‘how are you doing?’ to someone because you know it’s going to lead to their life story… You need to pray at work.
Oh heck…. LET US ALL BOW OUR HEADS.
And for me … I’M OUTTA HERE!!!!!! (long day)
mmmkay HardTruth
I’m having a difficult time wrapping my mind around that. Whatever, and have a nice one.
Republican:
Just going back and re-reading some of the posts – and realized I ignored your post of 12:09. Didn’t mean to – sorry. I’ll try, with the usual disclaimers.
While some litigants and commentators have cited the 9th Am., no court decision that I know of, has been based upon it. The courts tend to avoid vague unnamed “rights retained by the people” and hang their hats on more certain rights protected, just as in 4th Am. litigation the courts tend to look past the “unreasonable” search language as vague and indefinite and instead latch on to the warrant and probable cause requirements, holding that any search without a warrant is per se unreasonable unless it falls within a narrow exception (search incident to arrest, movable scene under Carroll, etc.)
On the other hand, the “penumbra” cited by the court in Griswald is pretty vague and indefinite, isn’t it?
JR – I’m going to have to rethink my opinion of you.
Originally, I felt you just rode some of the other’s coattails around here, but now I see that you have taken a stand all your own.
I respect that immensely.
You and I may not see eye to eye on many political topics but just the fact that you have the fortitude to blaze your own path tells me you have not only some integrity – but an independent streak.
Good for you.
You have just come WAY up in my estimation.
BTW – you will be happy to know that I did not just ‘evict’ the woman, she left on her own schedule and for the time she was there I didn’t charge her rent at all. We lent her a couple of boys from our crew to move her heavier items and our trailer. She has moved in with a single sister and they seem to be very happy. She did ask if she could have ‘first chance’ at the home in a few months when it is totally remodeled, and I put her in touch with a ’special lender’ that works with Mennonite Housing to start cleaning up her credit and, perhaps, qualifying for the home.
And she brought us cookies. We’re not nearly the villains you might think.
J R I do respect your opinions even though I don’t always agree. You have challenged me to think outside the box. I am getting ready to take 4 grandkids to the Ozarks for their spring break next week and haven’t had time to watch ‘An Inconvenient Truth’ but it is on my schedule when I return.
In the meantime I/we will be very respectful of the area we are staying in. I do have to drive an Expedition though because they wouldn’t all fit in a small car.
It’s a start and I look forward to going other rounds with you.
On the other hand, the “penumbra” cited by the court in Griswald is pretty vague and indefinite, isn’t it?
Posted by: GMC70 | March 14, 2007 at 06:26 PM
GMC70…
Not a problem on responding right away, I know you have to work for a living and are busy. :)
In my opinion, Douglas introduction of the “penumbra” in the Griswald case is much more than an occlusion or some sort of barrier.
What he essentially did is to supply a fully outfitted riding saddle on which to gear up any issue that involves privacy.
I’m not saying that’s an entirely a bad thing, but golly that sure puts a hard precedent to overcome if you got an issue that requires discovery in order to flesh out a case.
My apologies for the layman terms. :)
GSheridan
I am glad it worked out for the woman.
I have to call you out here. You must have recognized yourself in the rogues gallery I mentioned.
The stuff you posted about famgrrl, the real extreme stuff? It is hard for me to imagine that such talk comes from a grown woman. It sounded like a teenage punk. You don’t need to do that. It’s petty. Also? You’ve gone WAY off topic before on assaults on other posters. Hey call our side any name ya like in a pitched battle. But that latenight attempt at a “bash farmgrrl” thread that you tried to get started? Yeah it was on the open thread. But why do that? And the thing of saying me or Tracy was on welfare. Even if we WERE and we aren’t, people on welfare have no easy life! I’m sure they don’t have the means to post here.
Right about now, you can’t wait to mention some of the things I’ve said about you. But anything I might have said comes only from what you bring here. Any distortion of it is unitentional and I;ll correct it. Like when I call you an energy shill. Well….I mean you are. I guess that makes me an environmental shill. You also won’t catch me making YOU the topic. And if I caught one of “mine” (If I have any left) doing that I’d probably say something smart ass but in the vein of trying to get it stopped.
Give ya an example. I saw a rough copy of outlander make a post that outlander would not make. I addressed the issue by saying something like “That aint outlander, he can’t spell those words!” Like that.
These are minor things…mostly. At least you don’t seem to be nic stealing or trolling or dopple nic ing (My word for a poster with mutiple identities.)
Courageous on my part? Nope. Self and forum preservation. If they bring in monitors or new filters, I and others may not be able to post. This is a loss the boycotters are prepared to accept if the worst behaviors can’t get stopped voluntarily.They are willing to throw me under the bus so to speak. So I have nothing to lose. They are all ticked off at me anyway for being here giving you all someone to talk to.SO I’m due no special respect. In a way I’m selling out my side. How that’s respectable I don’t see.
From my point of view, the WE Blog gives the editors and their seemingly communication companion, KWCH some fodder which than can develop ideas.
We are in a sense, their lab rats. :)
I think one more ride on the waterboard, and Mohammed would have confessed to being Bin Laden!
Good observation Republican.
It is good to see some I had only found anger in are being polite and thinking. I actually just remarked earlier I was a bit shocked by Republikan’s milder and thoughtful response to the post I made in the Conservative thread. Just a point of order, as I said I had met up with Captain America before, the first time was on the message board. As soon as I made the statement I am a Republican, he (then Galahad) set upon me. Accusing me of using several different names and just spreading lies. He stopped only after he “Reposted” something he said I had posted. When I noticed that my name was misspelled, I pointed out that if it had been me that I would think I would know how to spell my own name! And if he was going to make up things he thought I had said at least next time spell my name right! Busted!!
he is the only one on the left, far left, extreme left that has ever gone that far or engaged in name calling to go after me for my views or party affiliation. Now, on the other side of that coin, SOB, Republikhan and yes friend even Fleetwood. The very first post directed to me involved name calling such as “liberal, unpatriotic, Terrorist aider, Democrapic. “etc. To say it was mainly the left that engaged in such actions does not stand a simple count.
But past is past and this battle of words did not start with anyone here, “old habits die hard” as the saying goes. I knew JR would be here and I understood why and agreed, but as has been shown by the above posts.This can be a thoughtful and educational blog. We all have our own passionate subjects, while other maybe just a passing interest. Don’t get me started about the 2nd Amendment, private gun ownership and the like.LOL you think I get word long now! “Cold, dead hand” and all.
There are many topics that will bring out some heated discord, that is just being American. At one time or another EVERYONE here has said something I highly disagree with as I think I to have said things that other highly disagree with. But EVERYONE has also said something I could agree with.
I do hope that those that are boycotting do come back, we need to get back to the days when there could be heated debate but at the end of the day members of both parties could go out to have a drink. This level of discord serves only to do the work of our enemies for them. I said before, “It is pointed out that there has not been another terrorist attack in over five years. But why waste the effort when we are tearing our selves and our country apart for them?”.
Both side have valid points to make…. Perhaps that is why I would say I am a moderate REPUBLICAN!(remember that when I say I am for or against something you are not) Never will I claim at one time or another that I am not totally full of crap! But it is Republican crap…..
I can’t say anything nice about you writerdog.
Well I CAN. But you don’t want help with THIS crowd from me!
Writerdog,
What’d I do?
Interesting insight into Galahad writerdog. :)
‘As I stared into the mirror my reflection avoided me. A shadowy figure slipped away from my view.’
JR – I’m not going to come down on you for your opinion.
I know you think my treatment of farmie was harsh – and I’ll admit that I used a couple of terms for her – that I would NOT have for anyone else. But there’s a reason for that – she is simply abrasive and foul mouthed.
I DID explain that to her – and PoliticalMom attempted to also – but once she gets a burr under her saddle – there’s no stopping her. I didn’t insult her because she’s GAY – I insulted her – because she’s HER, and she had already levied numerous insults against me. Turnabout’s fair play after all. If someone is going to act that way – they ought not be offended when others treat them in kind.
However, I’ve found most of what farmie says to just be flat out wrong. She’s mostly angry because SHE brought up her court case – and I pointed out that it was almost identical to the VERY charges she’s making about me.
If you read that March 8th thread, from the beginning, you’ll find she made numerous unsubstantiated claims. I didn’t know her name when she claimed I did – but her claims led to someone emailing me with it. You guys are emailing in the background – so why shouldn’t others?
While my opinion of you has greatly increased – I don’t have much of an opinion of farmie. I don’t think anyone is above the law – and I don’t respect her methods, her way of ‘winning friends and influencing folks,’ or the way she claims she’s going to make others ‘pay.’ It’s VERY uncalled for.
She’s made totally inappropriate sexual comments to me – that I find unacceptable.
So while you may think she hung the moon, I think she’s a bitter and vengeful woman who looks at everyone who doesn’t agree with her – as some sort of ‘enemy.’
But I’m able to separate you – from her. I know you are her friend, and it doesn’t color my judgment of you. Only your actions can do that.
From the day I got here – I was threatened and insulted. I’m good at returning the favor. Those who know me – know that.
And I don’t mind if you call me an energy ’shill,’ I only mind when folks distort the facts by saying that I am profiting from coal, or the like. After awhile, I quit trying to tell it like it was.
I’ll give farmie another chance, if she can come back and quit fabricating things…but she IS abrasive – and as long as she takes that tone – you HAVE to realize that others are going to take it right back to her. I mean she has set the stage for that.
And I will NEVER think it’s all right to break the law. I’ve been accused here of hiring illegal aliens – a blatant lie, and yet farmie comes along and ADMITS she uses illegal employer practices. That’s NOT all right. If she doesn’t like the law – she can work on changing it – but NEVER should she break it, then brag about it.
If you can’t see yourself on this board, aside from farmie and the need to defend her – then you and I may never have anything in common.
That will NOT erase the fact that I witnessed you taking a stance for integrity and for yourself. I am going to remember and respect that.
I only feel your defense of farmie is off in left field. She has to stand on her own with me. Either she wants to mend fences – or she doesn’t. I appreciate your attempt – but it has to come from her.
Only time will tell.