First it was Sen. Barack Obama. Now Sen. John McCain is having to apologize for using the word “wasted” to describe the sacrifice of U.S. troops lost in Iraq.
McCain made the comment Wednesday on CBS’ “Late Show With David Letterman,” where he said, “Americans are very frustrated, and they have every right to be. We’ve wasted a lot of our most precious treasure, which is American lives.”
Democrats demanded he apologize, as Republicans earlier demanded of Obama. McCain later issued a statement making the standard assurances about respect for the troops. “I should have used the word ’sacrificed,’ as I have in the past,” he said.
Is this the level of debate we can expect on Iraq during this presidential campaign — a superficial “gotcha” tit for tat? And if so, are we really a serious country?
Let’s agree that every American honors the troops’ sacrifice, no matter the circumstances. But let’s not inoculate our leaders from accountability by using the politically correct but historically false “our troops never die in vain” defense.
Common sense tell us that’s not true, even if it’s difficult to admit.
Political correctness shouldn’t prevent anyone from stating the obvious: American (and Iraqi) lives have been wasted in this war because of recklessness, mistakes and poor planning.
Speaking this truth doesn’t reflect poorly on the troops. It does reflect poorly on our leaders.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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139 Comments
I wonder if we will hear as much about McCain’s gaff as we did John Kerry’s?
Funny how a misspeak affects repukes and dems differently.
CONS called for Kerry to resign from the senate. But McCain?
Cue crickets chirping. Double standard. Typical
Didnt their bible say something about “the truth shall set you free”?
Why do repukes hate the truth? Why do they hate the bible?
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheeh
What Democrats demanded he apologize?
They should have patted him on the back for saying the dead obvious.
As a staunch Democrat, I believe the Party should criticize McCain for many, many things . . . but not this.
I thought Obama did the right and decent thing by commenting in John’s favor.Saying that either one of them is anything less than sincerely concerned for our troops is just nonsense.
I agree, Capn’. The lives of our brightest and best HAVE been wasted on the Bush War of Choice.
It is Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld that should be doing the apologizing.
The next time any Wingnut on this blog or elsewhere (this means YOU, GSheridan) tries to go the ‘liberal media’ well, the disparity between the treatment of John McCain and Barack Obama for saying the same thing needs to be thrown in his or her face.
“Liberal media” is a Right-Wing lie. The DC media favors the DC Establishment–an Establishment that is overwhelmingly Republican in character.
Yes CF……Lying liars and the verifiable lies they tell.
unrepentantcertifiableLIAR=GS
Dittos, CF–
Here’s how Joe Conason sees the media’s new interest in Al Gore–the same media that he believes destroyed Gore and gave us Bush:
“The sudden fashion for favorable comment won’t influence any thoughtful American’s opinion of Gore, but it should remind us of the dismal media performance that did such a terrible disservice to him and to the nation. Although Gore himself certainly deserves a measure of blame for the catastrophic conclusion of the 2000 presidential election and the events that led up to it, his hateful treatment by the press slanted the campaign against him from the beginning. (Perhaps only Ralph Nader is more culpable for the irreparable harms of the Bush era, but that is an arguable proposition.)
“Had the recent adoration of Gore been accompanied by any sign of healthy introspection among those who once savaged him, there might be reason to hope that they’ve learned something from this extraordinarily costly lesson. But as usual, mainstream commentators prefer to write as if they suffer from severe amnesia (as well as database deprivation) — and to pretend that everyone else does, too….
***
“Historians will someday ask why the United States entered a century of enormous challenges under the stewardship of a man who was so manifestly unsuited to high office — and why he prevailed over a man whose judgment, experience and courage were so clearly superior. False images and phony stories created by the media will certainly figure in their answers.
“Those historians may also wonder why the better man declined to seek the presidency again…The answer may be found, of all places, in the Note, that snarky weblog on the ABC News site, which often betrays the true emotions roiling the minds of mainstream journalists. Said the Note, in explaining the recent spate of positive coverage of the old press nemesis: ‘Basically, the political press wants to tempt Al Gore into the race, and then they will destroy him as a flip-flopping, exaggerating, stiff loser. And Gore knows this.’”
Remember that every time The Wichita Eagle runs Cal Thomas and values boy and Kathleen Parker and Rich Lowry and Flint Hills Policy Institute and Karl Peterjohn–they are supporting the Worst. President. Ever. that brought you the war in Iraq and helped defeat a man of integrity and experience that wouldn’t have gotten us into this quagmire.
The Wichita Eagle bears in their own small way some responsibility for elected the walking catastrophe that now holds the Oval Office by court decree in lieu of a democratic majority.
I’m getting pretty tired of those who continue to blame the messenger for the mess this country has gotten into. Everytime the truth comes out about our infamous president and his gaffs here comes a few wingnuts who want to pin the blame on such news organizations like The Eagle. Case in point. Capt. America says The Eagle is responsible for the mutterings of such columnists as Cal Thomas or the rants of local self-professed anti-tax proponent Karl Peterjohn. If The Eagle didn’t print these guys the phone would be ringing non-stop. Give me a break. The Eagle is doing a service. Providing you a choice of pundits to read! Lay off The Eagle. You continue to read it, don’t you?
Uh OMR, what lefties do they print to counter act the righties?
Or are you in fleetie’s corner thinking Pitts is liberal? heheheh
Some choice the WE gives us!
And yes, if they print them, they endorse them. That could be mitigated by at least SOME attempt to balance.
But there is none. And values boy is the WORST example of blatent republican and religious shilling with NO counter balance.
I dont like the “blame the media” meme either. But pul-eeze! Dont insult us by insinuating there is anything fair OR balanced about the WE editorial page.
They serve their republican taliban masters well.
Randy,
“Political correctness shouldn’t prevent anyone from stating the obvious: American (and Iraqi) lives have been wasted in this war because of recklessness, mistakes and poor planning.”
American and Iraqi’s are still being killed because of terrorists, insurgents, and states like Irans help.
When someone in my Battalion gets killed in an IED blast it is not because of poor planning, recklessness, or mistakes made by the administration.
It is because some terrorist/insurgent detonated it.
When some poor civilian contractor got blown up by a random IDF attack on our base it was the fault of some terrorist/insurgent dropping a mortar…
The war here is being run by the generals and our leaders, I have yet to get any direct contact with the administration nor does anyone else.
The administration sets the overall objectives and goals they are not down here personally responsible for every tactic or military action taken.
Shame on McCain!
If politicians can’t control their mouths – they shouldn’t even open them.
The only problem I have with McCain and this supposed gaffe is why did he do it? Did he not see what kind of huff-n-puff Obama’s same statement put him through with the Republicans? Or does McCain know there is a double standard with his side of the fence so he isn’t worried? Or maybe he is showing early signs of Alzheimers, much like Reagan showed for many years.
Nathan appears to have some difficulty with cause and effect.
Cause: bush mistakes re: Iraq
effect: insurgent violence and civil war
It is a good thing that no one has to account for their own words on this blog! They would be apologizing until Doomsday! Especially the Democrits!
JR,
Wow JR, that is a big stretch.
Cause: Bush was born = Iraq war = American deaths = All his parents fault for giving birth to him.
Give me a break.
“All his parents fault for giving birth to him.”
I agree Nathan, Barbie and GHWB should be punished for bringing George Junior into the world.
Mc Cain went through quite an ordeal at one point in his life (prisoner of war)
If ya want the truth? That and his age and sometimes I don’t think he has both oars in the water. I think he slipped here and said what he really believes as opposed to what is neocon PC.
I have nothing but respect for ALL soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan, and any other country we are in.
That said, I will believe to my dying day this war with Iraq is wrong, that Bush and co. lied about the intelligence data, that Bush and co were going to war with Iraq regardless of what happened.
So, I believe every soldier and civilian contractor killed in this war lost their lives for nothing, and that angers me more than anything.
It is my personal belief Bush and co should be brought up on charges for their part in fomenting this war and should pay dearly for causing the deaths of so many people. In my mind, there is no excuse for what they did. Cheney should be locked away from society, as I think he is the main instigator.
Old Manor–
A choice?
Hardly. Their idea of “balance” to a fire-breathing reich-wing nut like Cal Thomas is the barely left-leaning Carl Hiasson, who I never even heard of before The Eagle started printing him.
There’re a list of REAL left-leaning columnists that have never seen the light of day in The Eagle and never will.
That’s why I have to subscribe to publications like The Progressive Populist (out of Storm City, Iowa) so I can really get a “choice.”
As for reading The Eagle, yes, we get it at work. I spent two minutes on that single page on world affairs and thirty seconds reading Doonsbury and scanning the letters to the editor.
Otherwise, it’s a waste of trees . . .
The fact of the matter is that W’s horrible record as Gov in Texas was ignored by the national media so that we could hear endlessly the lie that “Gore invented the internet.”
The media put Worst. President. Ever. in office. They are fully invested in the POS.
Let me guess, they’ll run Peterjohn, but won’t print any NOW things?
I don’t know what they won’t run exactly, P-Mom.
But you never see anything from NOW or Planned Parenthood or the ACLU or Handgun Control or any other left of center organization, do you?
I know they haven’t printed any of my letters to the editor–I wrote six in row, some long, some short, some strongly worded, some neutrally worded about Pat Roberts voting AGAINST a resolution to keep Social security funded.
Practically all the RePukes voted AGAINST.
Didn’t read about it in The Eagle, did ya?
After that, I quit writing to The Eagle.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/natendorse5.html
Endorsements from 2000
Thanks fleet. Note that many more of the “liberal media” (including the Eagle) endorsed Bush than Gore.
Lick Wood–
You actually posted something worth reading.
Not bad.
Unfortunately for you however, it totally supports my contention–
It showed 157 media outlets endorsing Bush and only 99 endorsing Gore.
This not only completely puts the lie to “left-leaning media,” it shows in fact Bush had significantly MORE media support than Gore.
Despite that, Gore won the popular vote . . .
And the rest is history: historic high national debt, falling wages, rich get richer and percent in poverty increasing EVERY YEAR under Bush, and of course war without end in Iraq.
Back to the thread . . .
I’m guessing that none of the reich-wing is going to step forward to condemn Ann Coulter’s latest:
Speaking today at the Conservative Political Action Conference, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter said: “I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word ‘faggot,’ so I — so kind of an impasse, can’t really talk about Edwards.”
Wait . . . wait . . . outlander is sure to pop up and say “it was only a joke, why don’t you have a sense of humor?”
Actually capn, she was concerned that she would have to introduce herself … and those would be the words she would have to use …
(only a joke … )
capn, ben-You will notice that the “usual suspects” endorsed Gore.Just as Bush the First was Reagan’s “third term”, Gore should have been Clintons third term. Didn’t happen.
And Gore winning the popular vote means nothing.
“And Gore winning the popular vote means nothing.”
… and if the equation was flipped, and Bush lost the electoral vote but won the popular vote, the CONservatives would have been SCREAMING.
In fact, prior to the election, the Bush Team prepared legal briefs to CONTEST that exact eventuality.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Republican.
ws- We play by the rules.”It rains on both sides of the field”.It has happened several times in our history. We play by the electoral vote. I don’t know about your coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Why is it that when I see your nic, Fleet, that the first words that come to mind are “lying hypocrite?”
Al Bore definitely won by popular vote. He was real popular with those votes from the Cemetery, convicted felons and triple voters.
Hell, he even had a couple hundred cats and dogs for him. In a few dozen precincts he had more votes than there were voters! Imagine that…yep Al Bore was indeed popular.
Well, Repliar, please come up with some proof of your allegations.
Or STFU.
“Why is it that when I see your nic, Fleet, that the first words that come to mind are “lying hypocrite?”"
Maybe because you are a ding dong?
Maybe because you can’t hang?
No, actually, Fleet, the reason that those words come to mind is that you ARE A LYING HYPOCRITE.
Thank you, ws. Always a pleasure.I’m off to the Super Jam, where we will smoke reefer and speed to and from the studio.
Hey WSClark you STFU, you limp,has-been penus pounder.
Only thing you have a grip on is in your pants. You don’t have a clue of the truth or a lie. You just start vomiting and think you say something but end up retching on your shirt. Which you usually lick up and leave chunks on your teeth.
So STFU
And thanks for playing.
Missed your meds again today, Rep-liar?
If you run over to Walgrens, they can sell you one of those little pill dispensers that are set up by day so you don’t forget.
The rest of the world would greatly appreciate it if you stay on your meds schedule.
It is really funny watching the Republicans all like up to kiss Bush’s ass and stumble all over themselves. Especially McCain. The only “waste” here is him!
Naw that would be you Heeb boy. Wait, your tri-racial…oh no your a white boy that’s 53…no that was three months ago, your an old fart on retirement…wait…no…you are living off a settlement when you got fired…you can’t get retirement because you got fired.
Man! I have trouble keeping up with your lying ways Heebie. Maybe saying moron one too many times at your job and here is why you are such a lonely mutt and have to play with your uncircumcised organ.
“Republikhan”<—–may need ANOTHER IP block….
Well, now we know that the Rep-liar is KS Golf Nut. Thank you for sharing that info.
But, just for the hell of it, I am retired, living on my savings currently until an optimum time to begin collecting my pension.
But comment like “Heeb Boy” are pretty disgusting, but I would not expect anything more from you.
As for my heritage – once again – partially Jewish, Native and African American, Irish, German, English and Norweign.
My age – 54 – born in 1952.
My circumcision – 1960 – send your wife over to check it out – she may never come back to you.
But thanks for playing the game, Nut.
popup! favors the Libs! He let’s them get away with murder! No doubt a Lib himself! How many Libs have you blocked numbnuts? The answer is NONE! What a lib licker you are popup!
Oh yeah WSClark you claim to be older than anyone here but forgot to do the math didn ya!
What a liar! You are a pure fraud in life and here on the blog.
Go ahead failure boy try and stay on key and sing your pathetic song.
muahaha
“Oh yeah WSClark you claim to be older than anyone here but forgot to do the math didn ya!”
Let’s see, I was born in June of 1952. That would make me, let me get the calculator out, tic, tic, tic.
Yep! I am fifty-four years old.
Did I claim to be older than anyone here? I don’t KNOW everyone here, moron. The comment I made about being older than everyone else was a joke between my friends and I.
By the way, Golf Nut, I do not consider you to be a friend – no surprise there.
But, anyway, Homer, go on pretending that you are this wonderful, incredibly handsome business mogul that is desired by every woman on the face of the Earth.
We all know you as Homer Arafat.
Deal with it, Chunp.
Randy
Wasted? By what measure? The intentions behind the invasion were noble! The reasons were sound( save the WMD shit people, that was one reason among many), yeah we made mistakes. BFD. Lets get a little perspective from the way-back machine.
Throughout the nineties ACCIDENTAL deaths in training took more lives per year than the Iraq war has taken. Is that clear to all of you, or do you need some time to think about that? Prior to about 1980 the numbers were significantly higher, and we were’nt trying to set up a representative government in a nation that’s never seen one.
Those who’ve died in combat in Iraq were fighting for a noble goal and anyone who even subconciously considers them wasted needs to get a serious slap full of reality, regardless how you feel about the war.
COMBAT DEATHS IN IRAQ ARE AT ABOUT THE SAME RATE AS TRAINING DEATHS THROUGHOUT THE 1990′S AND SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN TRAINING DEATHS PRIOR TO THE EARLY 1980′S!!!!!
popup!<—–laughs at the outed troller : )~
Hey, Heckler, it was your man McCain that said their lives were wasted.
Did you forget that?
Hey Heeb…tell us about the time you protested in 1969…you know all those times in the big city with the hippies when you were what 17 or what about 35? Which is it?
Man…you just have to learn to keep your lies straight…
What will it be next week? You and Jane Fonda in Hanoi raising the red rag while riding your Harley powered by corn flakes?
Our soldiers are heroes. Nothing less. It is a tragedy each and every time one of them dies, but their lives will NEVER be wasted.
I’m very upset with McCain for saying that.
We should hold up our soldiers above all else.
Well, let’s check the facts, Homer:
In 1969 I was seventeen – obviously at an age where I could have participated in Vietnam War protests.
No issue there.
As for Jane Fonda – I have never posted anything about her, so I wonder what the hell you are talking about.
As for Harley’s? I bought my first Harley – a 1972 Sportster in 1973. I can’t imagine why my ownership of Harleys is an issue, but if you think that I should be criticized for being a Harley rider – well, what ever gets you going, Homer.
You have obviously lost it completely, Arafat. Ever since the WE Blog Meet, all of your lies and distortions have been exposed, so you have nothing to BS us about.
You are a fraud, Homer Arafat. You tried to tell the whole world that you were hot shit and it turns out that you are just a cold cat turd in the litter box.
But have a nice day!
Oh he’s heating up! You can do it blow a gasket boy. You are trying to check the old memory but its failing you now! You were hanging with the retired folks and oldest dude on the blog…
Yeah baby tell us about the protest when and where…
How you gonna know who looks like what when you can’t even get your rotund carcass out the house…
Let’s see you know how that golf nutz looks like because you were at the meetup? No…you weren’t were you!
Whoohooo! Caught in another lie…Heebie is failing bad…
Thanks for playing.
Heckler?
You managed to miss the subject of the thread. But let’s go with what you posted.
“The intentions behind the invasion were noble.”
Uh no. I don’t think so.The EXPRESSED intentions were noble. The real intentions were not.
ACCIDENTAL deaths, your emphasis. Got a link? And even IF true….so what?
“….and we were’nt trying to set up a representative government in a nation that’s never seen one.”
Iran had a representative government once. But we didn’t like it. Our interference THERE started this whole ball rolling.
When lives or money are spent to achieve essentially nothing, or in the case of Iraq a NEGATIVE result, they are wasted. It is not pleasant to face. But there it is.
“Yeah baby tell us about the protest when and where…”
From 1967 to 1972 there were many protests in Detroit. I probably attended at least half of them.
“Let’s see you know how that golf nutz looks like because you were at the meetup? ”
Not only have I read the comment about you on the blog, but friends of mine FROM the blog have commented about your horrid appearance in private e-mails. From what I have heard, several had to be treated by medical professionals after being exposed to your breath.
“How you gonna know who looks like what when you can’t even get your rotund carcass out the house…”
I am five ten, one hundred and ninety five pounds. I understand that you are about five nine and three hundred pounds. I don’t think that you have a lot of room to talk.
Actually, I don’t think that you have a lot of room for people to get around your large carcass.
As for my lies? What? You are the chief liar of this blog. You claimed to be Mr. Business Executive with a trail of women following you, trying to win your favor.
But I will humor you, Homer. Tell me what I lied about?
oh…your from Detroit today?
Did you have to look up when protests where held? Nice googling…now tell us where did you protest in Detroit…what street…what time…you surely remember this memorable event…
let’s see how well he can google this…
so Heeve you protested in 1967 when you were 15? tell us about that experience…
“COMBAT DEATHS IN IRAQ ARE AT ABOUT THE SAME RATE AS TRAINING DEATHS THROUGHOUT THE 1990′S AND SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN TRAINING DEATHS PRIOR TO THE EARLY 1980′S!!!!!
Posted by: Heckler | March 02, 2007 at 07:12 PM ”
Back that claim up heckler. It is false.
“oh…your from Detroit today?”
I will type this real slow for you, Homer. I would not want to go to fast for you and blow out that last brain cell that you are holding on to.
I was born in Kentucky 1952.
I was raised in Detroit from 1959 on.
I moved to Kansas in 1982.
As for my war protesting…..
I am not going to review every single protest that I was involved in, but if you question why I would be protesting at the age of fifteen, well, I guess I matured a lot faster than you did.
By the way, Homer Nut, isn’t it painful for you that everyone that attended the WE Blog Meet commented on your horrible breath?
so that was you writing about that you haven’t been back to that restaurant in Kentucky in years…
You won’t even give one protest you participated in?
watsa matter can’t google any protests in Detroit that sound credible…
O man…he’s gasping for air…wait till I pop some more notes on him…
Go heevie tell us more…I mean you are the oldest blogger here…
“so that was you writing about that you haven’t been back to that restaurant in Kentucky in years…”
What the hell are you talking about Homer?
As for protests? Wayne State U., U of M, Oakland U, Cobo Hall, Belle Isle, Downtown, the Grande, Eastown, Plum Street, the Utica Triangle, yada, yada, yada.
But enjoy your fantasies, Homer!
LOL Republikhan thinks he’s onto something and he’s just full of it.
Hey…that bipolar chick is back…
So williamor Stephen…
naw let’s just call you Heevie…
I will check on those locations and see if there were protest were there…
You have posted on other blogs now haven’t you Easter Kentucky boy…
That restaurant…Kentucky…I loved the food there….WSCLark…
Explain to me Heevie as the oldest blogger here what you did at the protests what did you say or do…
surely you remember…you were at so many…
And how are those Redwing games going…I Mean you gave your adult daughters tickets to them…that is when you left in 1982 and was 29-30 years old…really? How did you manage that? Were you 12 or 48 in 1982…
WSC is not the oldest blogger here. What is the significance of “Heevie”?
“You have posted on other blogs now haven’t you Easter Kentucky boy”
Sorry, Homer, this is the only blog that I post on. And what is a Easter Kentucky boy?
As for Red Wing games – I have a daughter that lives in Detroit. I have many friends and family that live in Detroit as well. Getting tics for my daughters to attend a playoff game at the Joe was not even difficult in the least.
As for my name………….
My name is William Stephenson Clark. The e-mail addy is live, but not my real e-mail addy.
Some folks here have my real e-mail addy. They also know why I use two e-mail addresses.
So, what is your REAL name, Homer?
WSC – the Red Wings suck. GO BRUINS!
my name is jose
jose jose himenez
So what happened at Cobo Hall…let’s hear about that Heevie…
jose – what is a Heevie?
WSC – the Red Wings suck. GO “BRUINS!”
Boy, Ben, you have now crossed the line!!!! You and I are going to have to drop the gloves the next time we meet!!!!
“So, what is your REAL name, Homer?”
Come on, Dave, give us your real name and I’ll tell you all about Cobo!
Chump.
DA must be hitting the weed hard tonight. I have no desire to learn anything about his past or about anything called ‘cobo.’
Neither Benn or Heevie got the joke about Jose Jose Himenez, a famous comedian from the 60s…
So tell us about the big protest meeting in 1967…I mean you were there in detroit…all those War protestors…
And what was your big layoff I mean job in Detroit…did you count car parts…manager of all you survey…
Ok seriously, who is so stupid to actually try to pick apart everything that WSC has said and discount it when it makes sense?
I see no discrepancy at all.
Who has been caught being a total and complete moron?
We have JM, Fleets, Golf…
Ian…
Ian is the racist one too.
But this doesn’t seem like Ian’s style at all, nor Golf’s.
No smoking tonight, Homer, er, Rep-liar, er Dave.
Whatever.
And yes I caught your lame joke about Jose Himenez. It is hardly worth a mention.
But what is your real name, Homer?
Ben uses his real name. I use my real name.
What is your REAL name?
Actually ‘jose’ I got your lame joke – I just ognored it. (’my name, jose limenez … ‘) However, I AM still mystified by the Heevie reference. I suppose it is just another lame juvenile joke,
WSC – couldn’t resist. Hope you aren’t a Wolverine fan too. Go Spartens! Then again, there are always the Buckeyes – you know, a hairless nut with no known value.
Ben, I live and die with U of M Football.
I got the double whammy this year. M lost and so did the Buckeyes. I root for the Bucks except when they play schools from Michigan.
My best friend graduated from State. I attended MI for a while – it has been a sore point between us ever since!!!!
WSC – you and me are destined to come to blows! Especially when my other Bruins take the NCAAs.
;^)
BTW – any idea what a Heevie is?
aha…so you were layed off in Detroit…you didn’t deny it…
and can’t answer me about the war protest in 67…too busy googling now I suppose…
How come you can’t tell me anything about Cobo Hall…wasn’t there?
Come on now Heevie…
Heckler,
“Throughout the nineties ACCIDENTAL deaths in training took more lives per year than the Iraq war has taken.”
“Per year”??? CREDIBLE link please, with a category for “ACCIDENTAL deaths in TRAINING”.
This PDF only lists “Accidents”, which includes walking drunk out into traffic, etc.http://siadapp.dior.whs.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates.pdf
Is “training” so DANGEROUS that it caused 400 to 900 deaths per year, in the 1990’s?
Hat tip to,http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×258775
“aha…so you were layed off in Detroit…you didn’t deny it..”
Apparently you failed that remedial reading course. I left Detroit in 1980 – moved to KS in 1982. It is now 2007. You might work on the calendar concept. I was not laid off in Detroit. I took an early retirement in Kansas.
As for war protests in Detroit in the late Sixties and early Seventies? Look it up yourself, Homer.
I mean, what the Hell do you want me to say – we protested the War?
Yeah, moron, we protested the War.
Not every protest turned out like Kent State.
Jeez, you are TRULY an idiot, Dave.
Heevie?
And WSC – you ain’t the oldest here; not even #2. Not if you were bon in 52.
I guess a heevie must be a Colorado Avalanche fan, Ben.
If I were a ‘lanche fan, I would be heaving, too!
what a maron…1967 in detroit was the year of the race riots…
you’re telling me you didn’t know about that…yeah…okay…
And I’m sure you would have mentioned Country Joe being at Cobo Hall several times at the War protests…
Not one word about Kerry being in Detroit for the Winter Warrior meetings?
come on now…it’s hard to make up fake memories…but gee whiz Heevie…
Could be WSC – it sure seems to be something khan obsesses on. I wonder why?
“I was nineteen when the draft instituted a lottery. I drew 202 in the first round and was not drafted.”
ono heevie!
They drafted for people born in 1952 in 1970…and you would have been 18 years old not 19…
So, are you saying that because of the riot in Detroit in 1967 that NO ONE could have protested the War?
The Riots lasted about two weeks. I remember them well. What is your point?
And Country Joe and the Fish? What the Hell difference does that make? Do you think that Cobo was only a site for protests only WHEN a popular musician was playing?
And the Winter Soldier Sessions?
Sorry, Dave, but this blog is not big enough for me to recount EVERY experience that I have EVER had.
The fact that I do not mention my experience at the Meadowbrook Music Festival in September of 1968 does not mean that I am lying.
It only means that I am not going to detail everything that I have ever done right here, right now.
Chump.
By the way, Dave, who is your soon to be ex going out with tonight?
“They drafted for people born in 1952 in 1970…and you would have been 18 years old not 19..”
Check your facts there, Dave. They drafted nineteen year olds, not eighteen.
But let’s see how good you are at the Google.
My lottery number was 202 – so what is my birthday?
country Joe and the Fish – a great concerts in Central Park. “And its 1 2 3 what are we fighting for … ”
Oh, and khan? The drafted birthdates much older than 52. I know for a fact they went after people born in the 40s.
Come on now WSC, I want to know every minute of every day you spent in 1972, and you owe it to Khan to tell him!
I still don’t think it’s golf. Golf spells better.
Who else has it in for you?
Anyone who remembers the 60s and 70s … wasn’t really there!
They picked lottery numbers for 1952 in 1970…among other lottery numbers…for other years
You would have known before you were 19 what your lottery number was as you would have received a letter…
“As for my heritage – once again – partially
Jewish, Native and African American, Irish, German ”
I checked the genealogy of Dillon Asher and the descendants in Hindman KY…there were no Jewish, Native, African American in that line…
This Jose guy is hilarious. Jose probably spends a lot of time in loud, inappropriate arguments with total strangers.
Like his keyboard, for instance.
And not winning, either.
He is rather amusing … funny that he can’t seem to tell us why he is so obsessed with the term “Heevie” whatever THAT means. Oh well, I suppose he has his reasons; maybe a closed-head injury?
WSC – I’ll have to insult your other favorite teams another time! When we have lived several places we have many such teams to like … and hate! ;^)
I can take care of the descendants comment.
I have MANY different lines in me too.
let me show you how this happens…
Mother’s side:My great grandfather was Norweigan.My great Grandmother DaneTheir daughter, my grandmother married a Frenchman.My mother married my father, english ancenstry
My father’s side:
Great Grandparents both were EnglishMy grandfather married a woman with indian/spanish heritage,My father born
This is how you get so many different lines of blood.
“I checked the genealogy of Dillon Asher and the descendants in Hindman KY…there were no Jewish, Native, African American in that line…”
Sorry, Dave, but unlike your heritage, my lineage is not a straight line. I have ancetors from Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Kentucky and Tennessee, not to mention other locales.
My Jewish ancestry is from Cleveland. My African American ancestry is from Tennessee. My Native American ancestry is from Kentucky.
But where is YOUR ancestry from, Dave?
And what is YOUR real name?
Yeah…
no doubt you are from the Kentucky Fackarewee tribe…
do you have a reading comprehension problem…my name is Jose Jose Himenez…
so if Dillon asher was your 3rd g grandfather, you must be one old dude!
I calculated you must be in your early 100s by now…phew…
he was born in 1774 btw…
Many of us have ‘renegade’ Native American heritage; I doubt that a simple Google search would find it. Kentucky – what Nation WSC? Cherokee here.
Heevie ‘jose’?
I know Dillion Asher’s history Dave. And I never said that he was my grandfather twice removed.
I am not going to debate Dillion (learn how to spell it Chump) I know my heritage. I know my ancestry from Dillion thru Matt thru Velva thru James.
You are getting way too personal now, Dave. We all know that your name is NOT Jose Jimenez or any variation of the same.
So what is YOUR real name Dave?
im from the durteemoutkleenitup tribe…
they lived along the teeth of the raging backwash of a river called iwannabelonge near the southern portion of west monrovia tenn…
“As for Hindman – up the road from Pineville. Hang a left towards Beverly. My Grandmother was an Asher, born in Redbird. My great (x3) grandfather was Dillion Asher, buried at the Redbird ChristianRetreat complex outside of Beverly.”
“And I never said that he was my grandfather twice removed…”…buzzzzzz….wrong answer…
LOL Jose @ 09:51 PM
Jose is either 12 years old or drunk. If he’s a day older than 12 and he’s sober, then he’s scared to death. Or CrusaderX/Will _and_ drunk.
LOL, if he’s legitimately a uni-oar canoer, Jose may very well end up being my favorite poster here.
You hear that, Roscoe? You need to crank the looniness up a notch if you want to keep up with the standards of Jose.
I guess Heckler won’t be backing up his assertion that Iraqi war deaths for US servicemen are exceeded by deaths in training accidents.
Not that is was relevant anyway.
But hey he did so much textual shouting about it I figured he had something.
Maybe he’s just on something?
WOW our ‘new” poster Repulikhan got pretty hot when WS and the popup called him out! Telling that I think.
WSC – I think they need to adjust ‘jose’s’ thorazine dosage. I think they have it a little off.
Curious … what nation?
You really sound more and more ignorant Khan.
Jose jose…is that supposed to be like ‘rosanna rosanna dana”
So, Dave, since your wife left you, are you planning an OJ style attack? Are you watching through her windows while she gives head to some guy she just met in a bar? I guess that would get you kind of hot….. under the collar.
It must be tough, Dave, your wife can run around while you are just left with your Anna Nicole fantasies and a roll of paper towel.
Sucks to be you, Homer.
Curiously, PMom -Would you call what WSC is doing trolling?
No not really.
I would say what Khan is doing is trolling.
But I really don’t think it’s you.
Dave….
What are you doing Dave?
Dave ….
Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do….
Cherokee, Ben. My grandmother’s family were Eastern Band Cherokee, from what we can tell. Back in those days, non-whites frequently “turned” white at census time, since only white people could own property.
From what we can gather, Dillion Asher father many children with many women, so the trail is rather murky, but there is more evidence down the line that points to Redbird and his ancestors.
But, what the Hell? If Dave – Rep-liar – Homer says that I am lying, well, Dave is never wrong, right?
Yew Ha!!!!!!
Yep, you just proved my point about your intelligence.
WSC – renegade from East Tenneesee. If yours is KY instead of NC I wonder if that might be renegade too? Never in either concentration camps – North Carolina or Oklahoma. That is what my family has.
Battery dying … tomorrow maybe …
Well, come on, Dave. You have been trying to bust my chops for months now with your lame DA comments and other insults. So come clean.
You just make up crap about me to feed your pathetic ego. You troll and use false nics to TRY to insult me, but the best you can do is to challenge my AGE, as if I would lie about that.
Christ, other than my doctor, who the hell cares how old I am?
But do the math, anyway – June 1952 – that makes me 54.
Anyway, the e-mail is live. I pick up mail at that site regularly. If you want to take this private that is fine.
Otherwise, just shut up with the insults directed towards my ancestors.
You never know, Dave, those Cherokees just may come back to haunt you.
Chump.
See my most recent post, Dave, and take it from there.
so…you are 100+ years old being the 3rd g grandson of Dillion Asher…
btw Asher married cousins of Jefferson Davis…
Chief Reddie there may not even be NAtive…ancestors of the brock family said he was the son of a brit and he married a cherokee woman in Norht carolina…
54 is how old my mother is, and she was born in 1952.
“I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me…and I’m afraid that’s something I cannot allow to happen.”
“Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this…I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over.”
Goodbye…
WTH is he talking about???
“so…you are 100+ years old being the 3rd g grandson of Dillion Asher…”
You are amazingly stupid Dave. I NEVER said that I was the third grandson of Dillion Asher.
Christ, can you get some help for your problem?
But since you are so fasinated with MY heritage, you must know that there are THREE Chief Redbirds.
Just out of curiosity, Dave, what is your facination with me? I can assure you that I will not give you a date, nor do I really care whether you live or die. If you need a kidney, you’ll have to look elsewhere. I do not owe you money, nor am I looking for a contribution from you.
Christ, Dave, are you the bastard brother of Fleetwood?
God only knows what the Hell he is talking about, P Mom.
God only knows why he is so suddenly fixated on MY ancestry.
I hope his meds kick in soon.
The quote from Rep-liar are from Space Odyssey, of course.
“Louisville rocks – love that town. I have a couple of Aunts and Uncles that live in the Greater Louisville Metro area.
As for Hindman – up the road from Pineville. Hang a left towards Beverly. My Grandmother was an Asher, born in Redbird. My great (x3) grandfather was Dillion Asher, buried at the Redbird Christian Retreat complex outside of Beverly.Small world…Posted by: WSClark | December 21, 2006 at 02:48 PM
Dave,”This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.”
Great (x3) grandfather, as in my great, great, great, great, grandfather.
Learn to read, Dave.
Other than that, what is your point, Chump?
“I’m completely operational and all my circuits are functioning perfectly.”
great x3 is 3 greats not 4…
in any form of math…
And you don’t even know your relationship with the biggest Confederate of all time…
Perhaps you are hiding out as a Lib here because of your time in the KKK…
“Perhaps you are hiding out as a Lib here because of your time in the KKK..”
Nice try, Homer. My family is not related to Jefferson Davis. My great, great, great, great, grandfather was married to a Davis. No one in my family has ever been a member of the KKK.
Anyone can throw out accusations with no basis in fact, Dave.
For instance, I could say that your wife left you because she came home early and caught you in bed with the guy next door. I could say that your wife left you because your breath was so horrible that the neighbors filed a lawsuit against you.
How much of that would be true, Dave?
By the way, I am still waiting for your REAL name, Chump.
You have mine, so why are you so reluctant to give yours?
Coward?
You are way out of it when you make accusation like that, Homer.
“Anyone can throw out accusations with no basis in fact, Dave.”
…something of which you are well qualified…
Until you cough up your real name and real nic, Homer, there is no point in wasting space on this thread. The only one that is amused is you and that is only because the orderlies have not come around yet to give you your pills.
Have a great night, Dave. I hope you wake up in a whole new world tomorrow.
With any luck, there will be a dude in a red suit and a long pointy tail to greet you when you open your eyes.
Ben
You are correct, “training accidents” would be wrong. “Non-Combat” deaths would be the the proper qualifier. The “accident” data I find is not broken down by cause, some could indeed be caused by walking drunk into traffic as some brilliant poster pointed out somewhere above.
The point is still the same, anyone who thinks the combat deaths in Iraq are wasted lives needs some perspective.
Can’t find the death rates pre-1980, had it a few years ago.
Black zebras own cameos in the morning sun.
COMBAT DEATHS IN IRAQ ARE AT ABOUT THE SAME RATE AS TRAINING DEATHS THROUGHOUT THE 1990′S AND SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN TRAINING DEATHS PRIOR TO THE EARLY 1980′S
Heckler has been dutifully listening to his Rush O’Hannity and repeating their bulls***t.
This is the latest lie to circulate through the right wing blogosphere, and it was started by the NY Sun’s appropriately named Alicia Colon.
Colon is apparently where she pulled the evidence from.
Here’re the real stats:
1997 9741997 8171998 8271999 7962000 758
Not only that, but these five years prior to Worst. President. Ever. reflect ALL military deaths by any cause–car accident, illness, suicide, etc. The deaths in Iraq reflect mainly combat deaths.
You can bet that Heckler will now see the error of his post and humbly ask forgiveness for believing the liars he reads and listens to.
Hey, yeah . . . when pigs fly.
The stats for “accident” deaths is lower,1995 5381996 5271997 4331998 4451999 436
Those include the drunk sailor that walked out into traffic, etc.
A .mil PDF, active duty military deaths, 1980 thu 2004 is upthread,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/03/now_its_mccains.html#comment-62080482
Capncosmos
You afraid to use all the stats? Look at 1980-1985.
13,807 deaths. 275 from terrorist attacks, 19 in hostile action. That leaves over 13,500 from non-combat causes.
Get a grip, on cosmos.
Spin Heckler spin
Surprising for even YOU to hitch your wagon to this one.
Your point? It’s better for troops to die for a hopeless cause than by accident? Uh….ok. They’re still dead.
Heckler, you said,
“Throughout the nineties ACCIDENTAL deaths in TRAINING took more lives per year than the Iraq war has taken.”
I’m still waiting for your stats re “ACCIDENTAL deaths in TRAINING”.
Or do you claim that ALL accidental deaths, like the drunk sailor who walked out into traffic, are “training” related?
Okay Gents, not going to be online for much longer…but did a favor to whoever is researching this topic.
I looked at the 1993/1994 statistics compiled at US ARMY RESEARCH INSTITUE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE, NATICK, MA; 72 pages long.
1993 1994ACCIDENTS 54%49%SUICIDES 19% 20%ILLNESS 7% 19%HOSTILE 1% 2%ACTIONOTHERDEATHS UNDETERMINED CAUSE2% 2%
FY93 mil pop 1705103Total Deaths 1245
FY94 mil pop 1610490Total Deaths 1108
What was curious looking at this document under gunshot wounds, there was none in the Marine Corp. :)
Anyway, there are two years, don’t have the time to look at the rest of the years.
Draw your own conclusions, these are just some of the statistics.
note: this was a general briefing document and did not spell out how death was caused, on or off duty, etc.
1993 Stats
VEHICLE 32%GUNSHOTS 21% ALL ACCIDENTS INCLUDEDHEART ATTACKS 10%FIRES AND BURNS 5%TRAINING RELATED ACCIDENTS 5%
oops gotta go, 1994 stats are similar to 1993
Safety was my career and these were some of the grim reports we had to brief before the General Staff.
“jose jose himenez”
Republikahn,
It’s Jimenez.
Never took Spanish, huh?
Ben, I guess I wasn’t there. :)
“They drafted for people born in 1952 in 1970″
I’d graduated from high school the spring before the first Selective Service lottery in Dec. of 1969. Even as a female, I remember it well. (That makes me a year older than you, WSClark.)
So here’s the facts for Republikhan:
On December 1, 1969, the Selective Service System of the United States held a lottery to determine the order of draft (induction) into the U.S. Army.Representative Alexander Pirnie (R-NY) drawing the first number. Congressman Pirnie’s left hand appears to be on the mouth of the jar.
MethodThe days of the year, from 1 to 366, were written on slips of paper and the slips were placed in plastic capsules. The capsules were mixed in a shoebox and then dumped into a deep glass jar. Capsules were drawn from the jar one at a time.
The first number drawn was 258 (September 14), so all registrants with that birthday were assigned lottery number 1. Men of draft age (those born between 1944 and 1950) whose birthday fell on the corresponding day of the year would all be drafted at the same time. The highest draft number called from the 1969 lottery was number 195 (September 24).
Oh, yes, and Bill Clinton’s number was 311. Never called.
Forget to include this, in case Republikhan’s mental age would make him think 1969 or 1970 were the only years for the lottery.
The lottery ran each year from 1969 until 1973, when the draft was suspended.
As I mentioned to (whoever the hell Rep-liar is), given my age and draft lottery number of 202, it would only take a minute or two to figure out my birthdate.
I would encourage all of you to do that and be prepared to send me presents at the appropriate time.