Sedgwick County commissioners certainly can make the case that they should go ahead and charge a $3 parking fee at the Kansas Coliseum, because comparable venues elsewhere charge to park and the Coliseum could use the revenue. Maybe the longtime events that are talking about walking are just bluffing. But there is a context for this latest proposed fee — the arena tax, the mill levy increase, the proposed inmate jail fees, higher tax bills because of appraisals — and commissioners need to proceed with caution.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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35 Comments
It’s cost of adding gates, parking staff, could cause gridlock getting into the Coliseum parking lot.
Adding more employees is the most costly upgrade for the Coliseum budget.
Increase price for tickets, the $3 dollars, so no new staff and gates have to be used. Nearly $4 because more “usage” fees.
Good point, mrage…traffic backs up on 135 now when people are going to the Coliseum..it will be a safety hazard to have ticket booths.
Good points both. Problem I have with putting it on the ticket is that it penalizes those who carpool and subsidizes those who do not. However, I suspect that the benifits of putting it on the ticket outweighs that.
Just say NO to parking fees at the Kansas Coliseum.
1) First of all, the Kansas Coliseum generally makes a profit each year. The property has been paid for, for many years.
2) The proposed upgrade for the Kansas Coliseum included new, larger, better marked entrances from the surrounding thoroughfares. There was plenty of money in the general fund to pay for the proposed upgrades.
3) The Kansas Coliseum contains more than 4,000 parking spaces completely adequate for the 10,000 seats in the Britt Brown Arena (the main building) plus the three auxilliary “pavilion” buildings that are used for the horse and agricultural shows and gun shows, etc.
Lets face it — the only reason County Commissioners Dave Unruh, Tim Norton and Tom Winters and County Manager Buchanen want to slap the users of the Coliseum in the face with this new parking fee is to attempt to make the downtown white elephant arena look better in comparison to the public.
If people dislike paying $3 for parking, I wonder how they’ll like paying ____ for parking at a downtown arena?
(Fill in the blank with whatever figure you’ve heard.)
Have you people ever been to and NFL or MLB game? They all charge parking fees. And they are anywhere from 3 to 5 times as much as the Coliseum charges.
What a surprise, Sedgwick County has its hand out again.
Very true, Wayreth. And, IF we were to ever go to an NFL game here in Wichita, we could expect the same. But…this is not the NFL or MLB..and we shouldn’t have to pay like it is.
Sigh….
The county has cut staff and maintainence funds at the Kansas Coliseum rather sharply over the last 10 years.
If paying for parking, a common occurance in other cities, will free up some much-needed money to fix the things that are broken I’m for it, with some conditions:
1) Vendors to the Coliseum, and their employees, should not have to pay to park. Why? Because most of these folks work for embarrassingly small hourly wages now. Charging them to park (and basically charging them to work) will effectively knock $1/hour from their wages. Many workers arrive just before doors open, and will need separate gates, too.
2) Work out a deal for people attending multi-day events, perhaps issuing a dashboard placard showing their payment status. Perhaps a ‘buy one day, get the next day free’ or something similar.
3) Exempt folks renting RV and horse trailer parking and utility hookups. They are already paying a premium.
4) Institute an inventory and accounting control package that prevents the parking squad from skimming the cash. Some of you may not remember 20 years ago, when the Coliseum charged for parking. The anecdotal comments from former workers indicated that about 1/3 of the money never made it to the office. “2 for the county… 1 for me… ”
5) Find a better way to collect the parking fee than toll booths. Such an arrangement will hopelessly snarl traffic and ingress.
The real issues here are philosophical and economic.
Philosophically, some of our residents don’t want to pay for things they don’t use. This ranges from people who don’t have kids in school who resent the USD’s spending to folks that never attend an event at the Coliseum. One could argue that both public education and public facilities are quality of life and economic development issues (and I think they are). The county is hoping to appease those people by charging a user fee.
My modest proposal: raise the “facility use charge” of $0.50/ticket by $1.50 to $2.00. There will be more income (presuming 3 or more in a car), no opportunity for embezzelment and skimming, not affect workers and Coliseum vendors (the concession workers, stage hands, ushers & security), require no employees or toll booths (although they are already built), and won’t create a traffic problem.
A user fee of some kind is coming. It’s only a matter of what form it comes in.
Time will tell, will we listen?
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
That people complain about 3 dollar ticket is interesting. Considering that the downtown arena doesn’t have any recognisable parking plan now people with no doubt paying 5-10-20 dollars to park in private lots and then walk 5-10 blocks thru downtown or pay even more money to catch a bus
I realize the county commission has delayed a decision on this, but am wondering about non-profit, charitable events?
Example being, the Wichita Toy Run attracts a few thousand motorcyclists who drop off toys for both the Salvation Army as the Marine’s Toys for Tots campaign. There is no admission charge, there are not profit activities. Food is provided by the Salvation Army on a donation basis.
Would a parking fee for the Coliseum include such events?
LTB: If you are still here — since I have major doubts about this — what is your opinion of attempting to use the proposed downtown arena for shows and concerts? I’m wondering about acoustics? Noise from trains running adjacent to the building? Parking for the 18 wheelers and RV’s that transport sound equipment and performers? Physical arrangement? Kitchen area for the worker bees and performers?
Would like to see your thoughts on this.
LTB: If you are still here — since I have major doubts about this — what is your opinion of attempting to use the proposed downtown arena for shows and concerts? I’m wondering about acoustics? Noise from trains running adjacent to the building? Parking for the 18 wheelers and RV’s that transport sound equipment and performers? Physical arrangement? Kitchen area for the worker bees and performers?
Would like to see your thoughts on this.
They tried that here and, after it caused a 3 hour traffic jam, it was dropped. The $2 fee is still there but it is charged when you buy the ticket now which means you pay it whether you drive or ride with somebody else.
Railroads are no problem. Here they not only run right by Phillips Arena but right UNDER the Georgia World Congress Centre. The engineers that design these things use foundations that go into the bedrock and then they “float” the structure on the hard foundation (how I have no idea) and you do not feel or hear anything. 18 wheelers and RVs usually are plugged in on site and don’t idle during shows and mostly they are backstage away from the show anyway.
Kev: To clarify your posts, could you call yourself “Kev/Atlanta” to clarify your comments. This is meant to be a constructive suggestion. Even though you are probably from Wichita, this would let readers know you are right there experiencing another way to do things.
I am not worry about it, I have lived here all my life and I have only been to the coliseum three times.
Ted NugentMonster TrucksMichael Martin Murphy
Heck wiseman - I’ve only lived here 20 years and have beeen to the coliseum more than that.
Weds evening: I watched part of today’s county commission meeting on channel 7. The county commission delayed a vote on the issue for TWO WEEKS so Ron Holt can gather more information. The commissioners seemed particularly concerned about possibility of losing the Thunder and the horse shows if parking costs and bureacracy is increased for coliseum attendees.
Frankly, in my opinion, the ownership of the Kansas Coliseum property should be transfered to the City of Park City for $1.00 so the renovation program can begin as soon as possible.
jwink-
Sports facilities are notorious for their reverberant natures. They are actually designed to reflect and project crowd noise (read “random spectral content”). For team sports with enthusiastic fans, this adds to the excitement. Unfortunately this is bad for events that require coherent sound reproduction, even causing problems in the design of game announce and emergency warning speaker systems.
Somewhere in my memory I recall Ron Holt mentioning a drapery and softgoods package to both alter the acoustics and create more “intimate” spaces within the arena. When these kinds of things are done at the design stage the results can be good. Their ‘portable’ nature, however, means that promoters will be charged to install, use, and remove the treatments. This is common in all types of venues.
As for environmental noise, I doubt trains and vehicle traffic will be be a factor for most users. However, you’ll not find the Wichita Symphony a likely tenant… The arena can’t do MTW or Broadway road shows. By it’s very nature, an arena lacks the scenic rigging system (the “fly” or counterweight system). Century II Concert Hall has 42 “line sets.” Convention Hall has a few less, IIRC. Theatre relies extensively on this system.
Arenas are inherently unsuited for “fine arts” use.
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
JWink,
I dare you, go to a County Comission meeting next week or any week in the future, say your name and offer that statement on the record.
See what they say. You may have to say it twice. Three times!When all the County Commission eyes are on you.
Then tell them you don’t live in Park City either.
>Frankly, in my opinion, the ownership of the Kansas Coliseum property should be transfered to the City of Park City for $1.00 so the renovation program can begin as soon as possible.
Renovation is not reasonable. The Coliseum will meet a bulldozer someday.
You keep mentioning its a historic structure, but that’s not the truth.
The County won’t allow that structure to compete for events in any way, once the downtown arena is built.
When the County finds a new place for “dirt” shows. They will destroy it.
I hope to help County find a new place for “dirt” shows. My college football stadium will have that capability. County will own land under the stadium. County will partner in the stadium.
Won’t be a lot of taxpayer money though. No amount for another sales tax, no need to raise taxes.
Their participation in the project, we can use Star Bonds to prepare land for the stadium.
A “Destination” Stadium. Has to cost over $200 Million dollars. Probably will be $100 Million more.
Engineering costs should be lower in the future, models of the stadium I want have already been built elsewhere.
Price of materials and labor will always rise.
LTB - I can definitely agree with you about the noise factor in a sports-oriented arena: Pauly Pavilion when my UCLA Bruins destroy the University of Spoiled Children. TALK ABOUT NOISE! You are correct, such an environment is not conducive to symphony, MTW, Opera, etc.
I also remember Holt talking about curtains etc to hide the fact that the Arena was near-empty. Don’t know how well that would work - I’ll leave that question for a professional like yourself.
Mrage - “Renovation is not reasonable.” How do you know that? I think it would be quite interesting to see a capitalist like Hartman look at it.
Why are we building a downtown arena when we can’t support what we have. It’s only been a few short months ago that we discovered our tax increase for the downtown arena was yielding more than expected. Our wonderful politicians then decided to up the price of the arena to match the expected revenue instead of giving back. Now they want another $108 million for are beautification downtown and additional fees to support the coliseum. Why not use the extra revenue from the existing tax hike instead of asking for more or increasing other taxes or costs. Why isn’t anyone discussing this?
The hockey team is worrying that additional costs will be a problem for them.
I wonder: do you think the rent on the new downtown arena should be more than what that team pays now?
(The answer is: of course rent on a new fancy large arena should be much higher than the present rent.)
How will that team deal with that additional cost?
A-Nony-Moose:
The difference is that the parking fee will alienate Thunder fans, and that it’s a fairly sudden thing, imposed by “the powers that be.”
A higher rent price at the new arena can be “marketed.” The Thunder can get their fans to rally around the new venue, offer new promotional packages, etc. By offering a greater perceived value, the team should be able to overcome fan’s price objections.
The current proposal before the County Commission gives them very little time, and basically nothing to “promote.”
I’ve been thinking more about my parking proposal… It was based largely on events that customers purchase advance tickets for. It that event is the only one on the grounds, it will work. If there are other events, there are details to overcome.
Bottom line is that the Coliseum needs additional income from other than the county general fund. The Commission WILL have to find a source of revenue other than the county general fund. CAVE-people have made it very clear they oppose spending public funds on public facilities. If the Commission can’t find an appropriate user fee, they will continue to allow the facility to deteriorate and lay off even more people.
Also, current on-site management needs some people skills training. I have witnessed them address employees and vendors in ways that are unprofessional at best. Employees feel harrassed and belittled, and they have no recourse other than to quit. That may be the County’s desire… to continue to thin the worker pool to improve the “bottomline” the Commissioners see. The result is a dirty, poorly maintained public facility. UGgggg. The citizens of Sedgwick County deserve (and should pay for) better.
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
LTB - I would just note that not all of us who oppose the Arena are CAVE people. I happen to support many things around here - notably MTW, symphony, Zoo, etc. My problem with the Arena as it is shaping up is that it will damage our other venues.
Above in my comments about parking I tended to support a gate fee but others have dissuaded me from that - largely for logistical reasons. That sent me to supporting some sort of ticket surcharge for parking.
I think anon makes a good point about the higher costs at the Arena for hockey. The larger size doesn’t help; their crowds are not that large. Hike ticket prices up and I suspect demand will fall. Not a good thing.
I know people who attend events at the Coliseum who tell me they will not go to the Arena - they don’t like the longer time it will take to get there. And that is even BEFORE dealing with parking.
A conspiricy theory for you: I wonder if the Commissioners are trying to damage the Coliseum even more so their decision to raze it will look better.
Well, Ben, the commissioners did their best before the 2004 election to make the Coliseum look bad. I think you are correct in your suspicion.
A public building, not yet 30 years old, but ready for the bulldozer. What does that say about the care and feeding of public buildings? How long will a downtown arena last before it is in the same sad shape?
Ben,
I just got off the phone with Bob Hanson.
He said, “experts” say we should have a 15,000 seat arena. Many complained we needed a larger facility.
The County has “limited” dollars for this project, the sales tax.
So the cost fit with what the experts said, size of the arena.
Can the County pay for everything with the tax. Some strongly doubt that.
It’s very late in this arena project, but business has to demand the larger facility with 18,000 seats just to be safe long term.
The key event is including KU basketball much as possible.
Hanson doesn’t believe, business here could offer the same financial package to KU like the Sprint Center for their off campus games.
I expect KU to play in KC, but find it economical feasible to play in Wichita as well.
Include WSU and KSU having many games as possible downtown.
What to do with the Coliseum.
Hanson said, the Big 12 basketball tournament needs two facilities. One for the men and another for the women.
If we really want to attract that event, that’s the reason to keep the Coliseum open.
But again, business would have to help the County on costs supporting two arena’s.
Help pay for fixing the Coliseum for many more years use.
Business involved, Coliseum wouldn’t be thinking about charging for parking.
Mrage - so now what? What is your next step? 15,000 seats?
Ben,
I wrote to one of the Big 12 Commissioners.
Big 12 requires 18,000 seats for the men’s basketball tournament.
They need certain amount of seats for the women’s tournament.
This person can tell me if Wichita should bother trying to get the Big 12 basketball tournament at all.
We have to realize its possible to get the Big 12 tournament, so “business” can create the two arena’s for that event.
The downtown arena with 18,000 seats. Fix the Coliseum for future use. The County will need both.
I’m talking with “new business” that wasn’t involved with the arena decision. Not involved on the Arena design board.
New business has to put a financial package together. Every business in this community can eventually participate. Create the 18,000 seat arena and be aggressive getting events, just like the Sprint Center.
Hanson doesn’t believe the Big 12 tournament could ever be here.
I believe it can.
I continue to talk with people. It’s everyday from now on.
I still want an 18,000 seat downtown arena.
The County isn’t going spend more. They need business partners to run two arena’s.
Good luck with that.
I don’t know that we would need two for Big 12 - and especially don’t think we could support two. I think they rotate where they are in different cities.
Any luck getting Joe! with you on that?
Mrage, I think you meant to write this:
You’re the one with a fake handle, jackass.
Back to school!
You see, Mrage, why I gently tease you is that you write about all the “inside” information you have, and you have all these recommendations and advice for everyone, but you haven’t even absorbed a grammar school education.
Can you understand how that is annoying?
Can you see how people are prone to discount your opinions, given that you either don’t know, or don’t care, how to use words like “there” and “their,” or “your” and “you’re” correctly?
Do you understand how it embarrasses our fine town to have illiterates like you pose as its leaders?
Ben,
I haven’t talked with Joe. He’s got kids on the way, I think. He supports the arena being built with 18,000 floor seats, I’m sure.
We need the Coliseum for “dirt” shows. If any future money should be put in the facility, there has to be a reason.
Consider this…
To get the Big 12 tournament, we’ll need The Governor involved. Sebelius now and whoever is Governor in future years.
Topeka promoting our downtown arena.
At this time beyond the Legislators and Gov signing the temporary sales tax, Topeka is not involved determining what events could happen downtown.
Topeka, Sedgwick County and City govs plus local business groups all working together to get the Big 12 basketball tournament.
All have a vested interest in running two arenas.
Using combined imagination, what events the 18,000 seat arena will try to get in the future.
Combined effort to “fix” the Coliseum.
Our 15,000 seat arena seems to be built by some people and for “those” to use.
—-
I want everyone to know, that “n” person has followed me around, a large variety of topics for a couple of months now, maybe longer than that, to bash my spelling.
That person is a fraud, no matter what is being said.
It’s takes nutty talent to always be “n” or “no one” fake name. Then it was something else like we000468, I don’t know, some crazy name from last year.
Who badly represents people in this town, people like that.
Ben-
I oppose the arena because of the way it was sold, the way it’s planned, the lack of parking, and the county’s infatuation with form over function. We need a new arena, but not this one, and not downtown.
The County has done to the Coliseum what the City has done to CII… make it look bad in the eyes of the public, by denying the funding public facilities deserve and need.
Then reduce the staff so that customer service, to exhibitor, vendor, and public, suffer.
Pitch the lie of “privatization” to the public until they believe that someone from outside our city can somehow “sell” us to concert and event promoters, conventions, and meeting planners. Seed the public desire to believe this lie by telling them public facilities deserve no public funds, and therefore current arrangements must be dispensed with.
That’s how we got to the places where the Coliseum and Century II are today.
Ben, I’m not calling you CAVE, and I know why you don’t like this new arena. We’re pretty much on the same page, I think.
My agreement with Mrage is that if we’re gonna build this turkey, let’s make it Really Freakin’ Big.
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
Thanks LTB. I have been called a CAVE by people like pro-wasteful-boondoggle Joe! so many times I tend to react. I didn’t think you were but wanted to make sure. I had wanted an Arena when it could have been done in partnership with WSU and located somewhere between Old Town and campus - probably along the west side of I-135. But, the Koch renovation closed that door; I cannot see it being viable without the University. The proponants have not given me examples of similar-sized cities with successful Arenas without a U.
I worry a lot about the de-funding of Century II and the impact on MTW, symphony, etc. And, in my opinion, these have more economic impact than an Arena will. The reason: 150 events at 2000 people will support restaraunts a lot better than 20 events at 15,000 people (both a total of 300,000). And, I doubt that the Arena will even do that.
Mrage - you claim “Joe. … He supports the arena being built with 18,000 floor seats, I’m sure.’ He has never said so. And, to the best of my knowledge he seems to think it is plenty big. I also don’t think he has done anything to get capitalist money for the project. Maybe he can clarify this - along with his claim that I or others have said the Arena is anly about 13,500 seats for B-ball.