Let’s prepare our kids for full-time jobs by sending them to full-time school. Sounds like a good plan, right? Wrong. What better way to burn students out and make them want to skip school more often than to make their school days two hours longer.
Even with the improvement shown in test scores in 10 Massachusetts schools trying this new $6.5 million program, wouldn’t it be better in the long run (and more economically viable) to fix the structure of the regular 6½-hour school day?
Rather than doing as my high school did — where instead of reading “A Raisin in the Sun” by Lorraine Hansberry, we watched the 1961 film — schools could just make students devote more time to reading and other studies, instead of preparing for and taking numerous state and national assessment tests.
I hope the same brilliant minds that came up with the No Child Left Behind law won’t include an 8½-hour school day when NCLB is updated this year.
Posted by Ross Stewart
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54 Comments
My own children went to the local high school, most of their day was spend in one very long class. Talk about burn out! Right, find a way to make the day more productive not just stretch it out longer! There is the same problem with year round school, the idea sound good only because the parents would not have to find a setter or readjusts their schedule so someone is there to watch the kids. The trip does not get any better by making it longer.
This is one more incident of the nanny-State expressing itself.
This isn’t going to help our kids learn better – to do that – we would actually have to overhaul the educators, and no one wants to broach that subject.
More hours of a lack-luster educational experience aren’t going to help anyone.
The ‘No Child Left Behind,’ fiasco is every bit as ludicrous as the ‘It takes a Village to Raise a Child,’ fiasco. I would hazard a guess that behind the scenes, someone thinks this will keep trouble-making teens off the street a little more.
If we could cut out all this ‘fluff’ that every feel-good measure has implemented, maybe we could get back to basic learning – and our kids might actually benefit. And disband the friggin teacher’s union. Public School teachers have unionized AGAINST the taxpayers – does that make a lick of sense? Kind of defeats the purpose for becoming a teacher in the first place…
This latest measure is nuts.
” And disband the friggin teacher’s union.”……… First off, this isn’t going to happen. Second, this action seems a bit against the principles our country holds as valuable.
Blame, blame, blame………… this is what you and other anti-public education fools do. I guess it IS easiest to blame teachers.Obviously, you really don’t get it. You’re just another right wing shill.
GS,You graduated from a boarding school, how was that compared to basically being in school 24/7?
I disagree with 12 month school years, except voluntarily. I went to “summer school” (when available) in high school and college because I chose to do it, and I enjoyed it. Which brings us back to last week’s discussion about the ones that don’t even want to be there 9 months a year…maybe with 12 month school years, we could run their disruptive asses off even sooner.
How about these small rural schools who use “snow days” to have no school days on sporting events for their schools.
Roo Haa, it was quite a bit different. We went to school 7 hours a day, and there was one 1 1/2 hour study period at night from 7 to 8:30 where we had to be in our rooms and either read or do homework, and if we got any grade lower than a “B” during the week, we had Saturday Morning school to work on that particular subject.
Needless to say, there were very few “C’s”.
But we had a snack shop on Campus where kids could hang after classes. We had pools, tennis courts, a horse arena where we could board our own horse (I didn’t) and the school transported us to compete in just about every sport, academic competition and we were allowed to go into Phoenix on Saturday nights, or Fri, also, if we were Seniors and had no “C’s” that week.
The teachers were, of course, NOT union, and they were paid well. None had lower than a Master’s and many had PhD’s. Class size was around 10-12 kids. The teachers were good – they didn’t rest on laurels. There was always another teacher ready to take their place if they didn’t perform well, but I only saw one leave in my time there.
Children from kindergarten age through High School boarded there and the older kids often were recruited to help with younger student activities. It was fun. We didn’t study MORE – but we studied better. We were allowed to call the teachers in the evening if we had questions, and the kids minded.
Two sisters from China were found with a marijuana pipe in their room -they were suspended for one week – and their parents got to fly them home to China for that week.
Security was tight, but not intrusive. We saw them, but they didn’t infringe on our fun. And we could take karate and pottery in the evenings, things like that.
But because of the small class size – I think we learned better, so most of the time -at evening study hall (in our rooms) we usually just read a book. They did their best to imitate a ‘family’ type of atmosphere.
GS – great that your family could afford that. How about for the rest of the NORMAL US citizens who can’t? In an ideal world, everyone would be able to have that kind of education for their children, but the fact of the matter is that they DON’T – that’s why you only had 10-12 students in each class… Maybe if we did more to ENCOURAGE our educators, our public school system would be more productive. Instead, we have teachers who area dealing with 30-40 rowdy children, teaching in inner-city schools where education is not a priority among adults, much less children, teachers who are treated basically as baby sitters and cannot discipline children who misbehave and disrupt class, and who must deal with parents who either are TOTALLY UNINVOVLED, or else refuse to accept responsibility for their children or make their children accept responsibility as well – and we wonder why the public school system is in ruins? throw in the massive mistake known as NCLB (great in concept, but how the hell can you expect a federal mandate to be good in reality if you don’t provide the schools the federal funding to go along with it) and it’s no wonder our public schools are going down the drain. so let me ask you this GS – instead of just bitching about how much the schools suck and how we need to get rid of the teachers union, what are you doing to help SOLVE the problem???? I admit, I don’t have school age children, so I am not really involved right now, and I do plan on putting my child in parochial school for many reasons, the faults with the public school system being one of them, but even though my child will be in parochial school, i will still be involved with the school system here and as such will be helping with important legislation, perhaps even joining the school board – so again, i ask, what are you or others with your opinions doing?????
Wendy – my husband and I could not afford that either – so I home schooled when the public schools failed my child.
But I had a measure by which to judge public school – and I KNEW there was a difference.
I don’t advocate vouchers – I never have, in fact I advocate overhauling our public schools – not closing them down, but each of us, as parents MUST step up where our own children are concerned and we must do it to the best of our ability and finances. Even the poorest among us can home school.
I wasn’t so anti-public school, until I worked there. And I worked in one of the top-rated schools in the State. I taught ESL to Vietnamese students, but I wasn’t a certified teacher. At the end of my contract I was offered a full time teacher’s position and easy accreditation but I was only too glad to see the end of that job.
Parents are abdicating their responsibilities – it’s really that simple.
You deciding to put your child in a parochial school is a demonstration that you are doing the best you can as a parent. I applaud that.
But if you change your mind and go the public route – I hope you will become involved with the schools.
Before I home schooled I was the President of our local PTA and the district council PTO. I’ve spent many years implementing what little they would allow me to implement to better the schools, so don’t go saying I’m bitching and moaning and not trying.
I developed a system called the “Sheridan Academy” (along with a local doctor) and we devised preschool learning methods intended to benefit all children in their following elementary years. We still have some interest from a group in New Jersey about funding an experimental pilot program, but it’s kind of on a back burner now.
I’ve been involved in trying to implement parents as educators in our schools, but was shot down by the teachers who only wanted certified help. Their loss. Our children’s loss.
If I see an in-road, I’ll still take it, but don’t think for a minute that I’ve armchair-quarterbacked this issue.
It’s been hands-on for me for years.
I guarantee you I could implement a program whereby all the public school kids would benefit, but the teachers wouldn’t stand for it.
America needs to make up its mind.
Continued bullshit – and apathy, or a public school revolution….
I vote for the latter.
Wendy, just because you can’t afford boarding school doesn’t mean you can’t implement those same concepts in your home! Set up an hour long “quiet time” where kids are either doing homework or reading every night. Be involved with their teachers and know their grades every week. Any grade lower than a B gets a four-hour “study time” on Saturday morning. I know it may mean that we have to stop over-scheduling our kids and letting them participate in every activity under the sun, but there’s no reason that good parents can’t take a cue from that boarding school and have the same kind of success–regardless of your income level!
Part of the education problem is today’s parent don’t read to their children or interact with them in anyway except to turn on a video, TV or ignore them as long as they are out of “their” hair.
This attitude has carried over to the education system. Teachers will push out assignments because they have to and accordance with canned lesson plans.
Bus riding students are at the greatest disadvantage when it comes to longer school days. Getting picked up at 06:30 and not getting home until somewhere between 5 and 6pm is too hard on young children.
I suppose the teachers will be asking for a pay raise as well. Maybe it is proper for them to do so as their day become longer too. I’m undecided on that issue.
Then comes the other costs of increased energy usage in the forms of electrical use, heating, lighting and cooling as the day grows longer.
Security costs would be need to be added to the mix.
Longer day? I think it would cause more problems than it solves.
Thanks, CAGEY, but i ALREADY do that – my point is, what about these children whose parents aren’t available to do that? We can’t be so double-standard – those children deserve just as much of a chance as children like my own who have an involved parent… are we just supposed to let those kids fall through the cracks and possibly take our children with them?? Many teachers want the opportunity to help but their hands are so tied up by all these laws that they CAN’T – and that is why we have apathetic teachers who stop caring… not because they never did, but because they simply can’t afford to anymore either…
GS – good for you that you are doing something. I personally don’t agree with homeschooling, but that is me – however, for even the poorest of the poor, homeschooling isn’t necessarily an option, and that is kind of close minded… Many of those parents don’t even have a highschool education themselves, so how can they possibly expect to teach their children? That is why there is a NEED for public schools… maybe you don’t like the teachers unions, but hey, like you said, you had the opportunity to become an accredited teacher and you DIDN’T WANT TO DO IT!!! So what about these teachers that do, don’t they deserve some kind of support system as well???
It is easy to respond to problems in the public education system with ‘Oh it’s the teachers that don’t do good enough’ or ‘That damn teacher’s union won’t let us get rid of bad teachers.’ That is the natural response, because it is right there – some students are not learning enough, therefore the teachers must not be teaching enough.
There is a problem with that logic though. Teachers are teaching. In every classroom there are students that get A’s and know the material, there are quite a few more that get B’s and C’s and learn the basics, and so on (bell curve get it?). If the teachers are so bad and are the problem, why is there such a disparate proportion of students that do learn?
Let’s do this experiment: imagine your family all the same age in a classroom together. And the families of the two neighbors that live closest to you. Quite a mix of personalities in that classroom right?
Now, imagine the concept of division and the ways you could explain it to those people. And ensure that they retain it so they can be tested on it and your school can meet NCLB. And remember you have only an hour to do it today; you also get an hour the next day and the next, but only a few weeks until you need to move on to the next topic. Don’t forget that some of the kids will learn it in two class periods and be ready to move on and start to get bored, restless and disruptive by the forth day, but others will take two weeks if they can get individual help every day.
etc….
I agree that the 6 1/2 hour typical school day needs to be used better; but I also feel that a longer school day for high school, at least, is needed as well; not to use the extra time to teach the same old stuff, in the same old way, but it needs to be used to for further education. For example, should all classes be 50 minutes long, as is now the norm? Should not some (or all) be longer? What about another substantive class? Perhaps by lengthening the school day, another period or two could be added, thereby reducing class size? A potential bonus to longer class periods; time for the teacher to assist students with questions on the homework assignment. Another: more time to do science labs.
There’s much to be done and that can be done; it needs to be thought out and implemented better than NCLB, for example.
There is some very informed and thoughtful discourse here.
Great Britain in implementing a program to give an academic-subjects education to all children up to the age of 14. After that, they can continue in traditional academic coursework, or choose vocational training, combining school classes and apprenticeships.
In New York City, schools are being broken up into smaller ones (including two or more schools sharing traditional single-school buildings). There’s a maritime academy in Harlem that has done wonders with African-American students, giving them training in boat-building and sailing, navigation, and hooking them up with marine industries in mini-apprenticeships. Harlem also has a superb performing arts school.
Not all kids want to go to college. But this doesn’t mean these kids cannot be inspired, uplifted and educated to enjoy productive careers. We’re losing manufacturing. But how about repair work? What’s the hourly rate for automobile repair? Computer repair? Plumbing repair? There’s good money to be made out there.
In public education, how about statutorily allowing 12+ or 14+ year olds to study at home, using district-provided computers and other resources? This would shrink in-school class size. Students could take some courses in school, and do some at home. Keeping the students on track, and not roaming the streets would be relatively easy. Cops can spot youngsters and notify parents and schools. Parents can say, “I’m giving you a responsibility here. Drop the ball, and you go back to school for the full day. Your choice.” Their assignment completions and test scores will indicate whether they are attending to their studies or not. It’s also a great exercise in developing time-management skills.
Longer days may be useful for some students, but not for all. For strong college-bound students, giving kids 3-4 classes, taught in 90-120 minute blocks, not all classes being taken every day, with extensive self-study (at school library or home) would mimic a high-level university/college regimen. So many kids suffer “culture shock” because they don’t understand that to excel in college you have to study 2 hours for every hour of class. Excluding labs, a college schedule is generally 13-16 hours of class attendance per week, not 33 hours, much less 40 hours.
For 12+ to 14+ year olds, I meant home study without requiring parents to be at home. It wouldn’t be feasible for all students, but it doesn’t have to be. If it only applied to 10% or 20% of students, that would result in significantly smaller school-site classes for teachers to manage.
heartlanderSome interesting, creative suggestions there (no judgment on them either way implied by me).As you, I think, are implying and as I also did earlier, one of the causes of the problems in our public schools is that for the most part, a one-size fits all philosophy is being applied. There needs to be some way to reach each student in a way most appropriate to them. For many kids, public schools work fine. Others need a different situation like home schooling, boarding school, or parochial schools.
I don’t have children yet, so whatever happens to schools, Fix Them!
Longer hours is possible. Until 5:00. Class doesn’t start until 9:00 but kids could be dropped off earlier depending on parents driving them or the bus system.
Kids could eat breakfast, sit around having a bit of fun, doing whatever prior to school starting. Some will still be doing homework they didn’t finish at home.
That’s the key to time spent at school. Every child turning in their homework. For some it takes longer than others.
Some kids have to wait after school to be picked up. Due to parents work schedule. So let out time from 5:00 to whenever last kid goes home. Between 5 and 6.
Sports or any after school event outside during the hot months is brutal at 4:00. Pushed back to 6:00 is better. Grade school and high school.
I would never consider home schooling, because interaction with other kids is a positive more than being a negative.
Bully stuff happens, social embarrassment, self esteem can be ruined by other kids teasing. Those things exist.
Longer class hours, must have an hour of recess time or longer breaks from class work.
Not all schools could accept that lengthy time but some might be better off, if a majority of kids are having a harder time learning. All must turn in homework.
A lot of homework might be finished before kids ever leave school too with longer hours.
Schools must have entertaining teachers and administration to keep the programs fresh.
Some teachers and administration’s suck. Bad people who shouldn’t be teachers or in schools at all.
Longer hours is better than year round schools.
One disadvantage to longer class times whereby students are able to finish their homework in class is that if they go to college, they have no idea of how to manage the out of class time. This is a drawback to the modified 4×4 block (4 classes a day, each 95 minutes long) in place at Northeast Magnet. Our younger daughter “paid the price” for this her freshman year in college. While there are certain advantages to this schedule, including the ability to schedule WSU classes more easily, only four classes to prepare for daily, more time to discuss problems with the teacher, and the ability to complete labs, etc., in one day, the little to no homework issue presents a problem. As ~90% of the NEMHS students go to college, there’s a need to review the system so they begin to figure out the time management “piece” before they hit a campus. As can be imagined, this is something I bring up where appropriate at Site Council meetings.
brian,
I agree with you. I’ve always been upset–and this goes back to my days as a student–about schools’ artificially holding smart kids back. If one kid masters long division in two days, and three more get it in a week, it’s child abuse to make them sit through two more weeks of it. (Actually, it may be four more weeks.)
What do the fast-learners think? “We’ve got it. We don’t need any more of this. We want to learn new stuff. The teacher won’t let us learn new stuff. Okay, let’s see what kinds of games we can devise to have some fun.” And then the teacher nails them, even if their “fun” is not malicious and harms no one. This “double bind” is what messes up bright kids, turning them into underachievers 99% of the time, and sometimes into angry, resentful miscreants.
With today’s computer technology, this stupid holding-back is completely unnecessary. You can let the fast learners do self-paced fast-advancement exercises using interactive software.
Or they can skip grades, which is being increasingly lobbied for, over the “socialization”-objections of administrators who have no clue what it’s like to have a 130+ IQ. In fact ask them why kids are age-segregated, and they can’t answer it except for “socialization”. What does that mean?
This isn’t how socialization in society-at-large works. In 4th grade, I was in an experimental 4th-5th-6th grade class. I loved it. It had a lot of self-paced study modules. I played after school and all summer with 8 to 12 year olds.
My home-schooled son joined a sailing team at age 16. Most of the kids were 11-13. He had a blast with them, as well as with his adult coaches.
In the pre-public school era, the sons of merchants attended private academies. Some went on to college at age 18. Others at age 14-16.
Some enlightened public schools in university towns, at least in the past, have graduated kids (sending them to college) at ages 15-17. (John Bardeen, mentioned above, had a U Wisconsin professor father. He went to university at age 15.)
There was a 12 year old in California who went to the University of California, Irvine in the 90s and did very well. But his parents had to home-school him to get him there, because the local schools didn’t understand the needs of genius, and didn’t even attempt to be creative and figure out how to nourish it. He didn’t fit in their box, and they couldn’t think outside of it.
You can build very-gifted-children’s schools. Public schools. Schools that have students taking AP English Literature in 10th-11th grade. AP Calculus BC, Computer Science AB, and Physics C in 10th-11th grade. They can do serious research projects in 11th-12th grades.
The public Davidson Institute in Reno, just opened, has been set up to do these things– and more. They’ve filled their freshman class with kids who scored 1400+ on their SAT’s (30 ACT equivalent)–as EIGHTH GRADERS.
Parents of extremely-gifted kids are moving from other states so their kids can attend. Interestingly, several Silicon Valley companies have recently relocated. Reno is going to be much more than a casino town within a decade.
Could Wichita do something of this nature, perhaps at a less lofty level? For example, how about an 8th-12th grade school for kids who score 21+ ACTs (Kansas Regents Universities admissions-qualification score) in the 7th grade Duke Talent Identification Program. I can assure you that Wichita has at least 40-50 7th graders who can do this per year, because a single one of its private schools supplied 13 last spring.
That’s enough students to justify a specialized high-academic-performance magnet school. If public educators are truly committed to serving children’s interests, and in investing in Wichita’s future.
heart, the high performance magnet public school idea is one I have discussed with many over the years. It, however, in my opinion, should require a 21+ in all ACT areas, not just composite for the Duke TIP/Northwestern Talent Search middle schoolers.
The socialization argument is one I’ve heard for years. My take on this is that the very bright are not benefitting from the socialization of being in a class full of chronological peers; by and large, these students are social outcasts. Why not take them from where they are miserable and put them where they can excel academically, and perhaps socially, for their high school years? I, like you, believe there are enough high performers here in Wichita to make this worthwhile.
Or, should Kansas have a math/science academy like other states; Illinois and Texas come to mind, I’m sure there are others. This is the kind of competition, IMHO, that will serve to improve all schools.
Vaughn,
Your right about too much free time after class in college. Kids want to get away fast off campus.
They shouldn’t. That has to be taught, try to do homework before going off campus. If kids don’t have to rush off and work somewhere.
Nightlife in college gets crazy. I rarely slept during the week. Homework suffered.
Schools have to college prep students better, not just to pass the classwork. Teach how to manage their free time and what to expect on a college campus.
I see more good having longer hours if its done right. But the schools have to be fixed up and worth the time staying longer.
Some schools are terrible to be in for too long.
VT,
The 6-hour in-school-attendance statute may need to be amended, or perhaps school libraries may need to be enlarged, so that at some point in high school, perhaps 11th grade, students take 4 hours of class per day, excluding labs, with different classes taken each day, each being taught 3-4 hours per week, with students studying on their own (this may include study groups) for 20+ hours per week.
I would prefer a statutory revision, qualifying B+ or better students taking honors and AP classes to receive a card qualifying them for reduced in-school-attendance time. So if anybody challenges them, they can show the card. If they want to go to the school library, fine. If they want to go home to study, fine.
Vocational students could do substantive afternoon apprenticeships. If they skip “work” without valid reason, then they lose their special off-campus privilege.
What’s wrong with treating responsible young people accordingly?
I’ll say this about socialization among “peers” in the same class.
Not as smart kids need them. Separating the smarter kids too much leads to what? Nerds! I’m serious.
Some nerds do well, Bill Gates and dot com’s. But in my experience too many smart kids together, they lack a lot of other qualities.
I had F average first semester, high school chemistry. I was generally C student. Didn’t apply myself they said constantly.
Did well on homework but tests didn’t go that well always saved me.
Chemistry was just book knowledge that semester. My lab partner was getting straight A’s. I had known that guy since third grade, he was always smarter.
He never made me smarter or tutored me. Anyway…when we started doing the actual chemical equations in lab tests, I got it!
Second semester, I could do chemical equations on the chalk board faster than the smart kids. I got a high B second semester, teacher couldn’t believe it.
Average kids need to put one over the smart kids sometimes. Its good to tease nerds too! They couldn’t play sports, proved our superiority that way!
Holding up a trophy at a bigger sports event is greater than winning an award for class work where everyone claps properly and no one is screaming and yelling happily.
Its great to have good grades, but there has to be some larger social fun while in school.
Too many of those nerds were the social outcasts. Spent too much time alone.
Vaughn,
So you’ve worked on a gifted magnet school for some time, and other people agree with you. What’s the obstruction?
Mrage, but the problem is that emphasis we put on sports doesn’t teach ANY of these kids how to manage in the real world. Sure, lets build up kids self esteem – but honestly, telling a kid that they are “great” at say, soccer, and giving them all kinds of awards and building up this special gift they have for sports isn’t a good idea, because what happens to that kid if they get injured and can no longer play? Their entire sense of self identity is gone out the window… or maybe they are a great player in their hometown where the whole school has 100 kids, but get them in a competitive arena with a lot of other children and it turns out they really aren’t as good as everyone told them – what do they do then??? that’s the main problem – we should be doing the shouting and cheering and yelling for the kids that are excelling academically, not the quiet hand clapping – but society has made it such a stigma to be smart that many kids “dumb down” in order to be accepted by their peers and all of the sudden all this great academic potential this country had coming up is down the toilet and we have noone prepared to run our companies or our nation… We put too much emphasis on the wrong things and not enough on the right ones – our children should be striving to be the president of the united states, not some pro-football player… but we encourage them to be football players, not presidents – anyone else see anything wrong with this???
I for one feel that longer days would be a mistake – it has already been proven that too much work for a child has just as disastrous results as too little. some kind of reform is definitely necessary, as obviously the system in place now (NCLB) is not as effective as they would like us to believe… but i fail to see how having a six year old in school for 8 or 9 hours a day is going to accomplish anything other than making them hate school even more – think about it – yeah, we want to prepare kids for the real world of working 9-5, but how many of you would give your eyeteeth to go back to your “school day” hours? Do you really want your second grader to be feeling that burn out?
Wendy,
I understand what your saying.
Each child has their trials to go through when school starts. Parents get all upset when kids are going through mental and social problems.
Some parents think their kids lives should be perfect. Kids act up from the best parents. Some parents are too overbearing, creating depression in children. Home life is terrible for kids.
If the school is set up properly and not every hour spent is doing classwork. Having some fun at school is key. For some kids, being at school is better than being at home.
Some day, the President, he or she, will be a former sports athlete. Whizzer White became a Supreme Court Justice. I think he went to Colorado, played football long time ago. Nebraska football players, 300 pound guys, become doctors. Could you imagine a thin scalpel in a big meaty hand!
Smart kids play sports. Its not always being the best either. Teams are made of up of every kind of talent. Not every kid is a great athlete. But every teammate going through the practices, it comes a good experience in the long run.
Some worse athletes can’t keep up, get teased on the practice fields. But when the season is going on and that worse athlete has a chance in the game, does well, it really excites the team. No worse athlete is ever going to be blamed for losing the games. The best players take the loss on themselves. They didn’t help win the game.
Athletes can be smart, do well enough society. Not all can be professional athletes but some can have successful sports careers, becoming the teachers of the sports and coaches. Some are the referee’s. Some are the trainers of athletes keeping them in shape.
Sports is good but it can be an abused process. Too much emphasis on being a terrific athlete.
Too much emphasis can be pushed on students to make grades. I don’t think any child should be hammered for getting bad grades some times. Some parents think getting a C is a bad grade.
Some parents demand their kids pass tests for college. Kids aren’t ready for college. Not ready for that high pressure high school where every kid is smart.
Not every path of students lives can be perfected. There no program in schools that is perfect.
Today’s kids with the internet, some information cable TV programs, better Channel 8 and Sesame Street, a better variety of information to gather from than the encyclopedia’s back in the day on my family shelf.
Kids today should have better opportunity to learn.
Has technology made home lives better so kids can learn there. Is parenting better with the new technology.
Mrage, I see your point too – but my arguement is still this – why should MORE emphasis be placed on sports than education? Yes, sports teach teamwork – but what else do they teach? School should be the priority, and unfortunately for too many today, it isn’t – the sport is – that’s why we have parents attacking their kids coaches for pulling them out of games. Get real, people! Not every kid is going to be a straight A student, I realize that. However, if we don’t breed the thought that education is important and hold our kids to a standard of learning, eventually NO kids will be straight A students either…
heart, privately only; have had indications that the local BOE wouldn’t go for it; that’s all I will say for now.
Wendy, the academics need the recognition, too; that’s a major issue with me concerning competitive interscholastic athletics. On your comment about no straight A students; that’s easily dealt with; just give them all straight As, good for their self-esteem (sarcasm off).
Yep, VT, is that anything similar to not being able to fail students…
Wendy,
Sports teaches discipline. Kids learn the ability to be yelled at and not cry. Its not always good on the practice fields. Parents would be shocked how some coaches talk to the players.
Is that worth having, I think so.
Too often a mental brow beating on getting better grades is worse than a coach telling a player to run more laps or do more exercise.
Parents emotionally try to guide undisciplined children. Sometimes parents don’t have coaching abilities.
Exercise opens minds with more blood flow. Children sitting down hour after hour they get mentally clogged up.
Some students want A’s because they love learning. Its a joy, that’s their “game”. Other kids need a sports game to feel excited.
The key is children turning in homework and getting a passing grade. All the pre-testing for college too early, some kids won’t be smart enough for college work until their 20 and older.
Some smarts comes from maturity. Some kids mature faster by exercising. Some discipline in sports can carry over to the classroom.
Some kids have to be punished, told they can’t play sports because they have to pass a class. That’s the way it should be.
Kids should exercise no matter how smart they are. Exercise with a purpose in some sport, not just general athletics. All the “P.E. ” classes are nothing like a real practice.
America isn’t losing smart kids, corporations will fail. Most corporations today are failing because smart people are committing fraud.
Can’t take athletics out of schools so kids take tests constantly during the day. Schools should have hour of recess time. More half hour breaks.
Athletics is terrible at 4:00 outside during the hot months. Longer school hours could protect athletes.
Coaches think, schools out, lets practice during hottest times of the day.
Okay, the brain is shot today – that last post should have been a question :) Sorry all! Let me try again…
Yep, VT, would that be anything like not being able to fail them?
Rage,
I just don’t see your arguement… I am not saying that there shouldn’t be sports…
What I am saying is that as a society we have placed too much emphasis on sports and not enough emphasis on education – for example, it’s great your kid can play soccer – if they don’t learn the basics, what good is that soccer playing ability going to be when they get older and can no longer play?
If my son wants to play sports, great, but I am not going to force him, and I sure am not going to let it interfere with his education… honestly, I would much rather he play a musical instrument – studies have proven that is more stimulating that sports…
Yes, Wendy, it would.
Okay Wendy,
You can’t chart a life path, failure in athletics, they will be nothing! Many kids stop playing sports but they appreciated it.
If you desire a child playing music, classical or rock? One sits down, the other leaps around.
Some musicians better be athletes. I think marching bands are better than any classical event.
Church music in some places gets wild and aggressive, in other church’s its like a death is happening.
Good music to me is wild and people are dancing athletically.
Do fear the bad athlete, he or she will get far in life. At least they tried.
Some kids never good at sports, might not be good students either, so what do they have to be proud about?
Many non athletes I grew up with found it reasonable to sit around take drugs and get drunk. Non athletes vandalize to release their aggression.
Mrage, what do you think of this idea? If public funds are at all involved in the various athletic programs, and in the public school arena, I’m not aware of any where they are not, then all students trying out for the “team” are on the team; and, as many posit there are many life lessons to be learned from participation in sports, then treat it as a class, with all on the team having an equal opportunity to play equal minutes.
You probably will disagree on this, although I am putting words into your mouth, for which I apologize in advance.However, I think that many of the lessons that are to be “learned” from athletics are easily learned by a student being on any “team” or involved in any group activities; thus, being a member of the Science Olympiad Team, the orchestra, the Chess team, is equally valuable as being on the football team, the basketball team, the soccer team, and deserving of equal publicity and acclaim.
I think the biggest question is what do we want our children to get out of school?
I, personally, want them to get the education – and while I agree that sports can build self-esteem – it can also destroy it in those who aren’t as physically able.
VT – btw – a transcript is not a requirement to enter most universities. I was worried, so I signed my daughter up through a distance school in Michigan that monitored her every move and ‘graded’ her work, but KU told me it would not have been necessary. Home schooled kids can get by on a synopsis of their learning – and ACT scores. I still recommend extremely detailed record-keeping for parents who home school, however.
I think the bottom line is this – we should NEVER arrive at a situation where an illegal alien is applying for college and thinks it’s okay to get in-state tuition, because they have been in school here. Because, during their high school career – they were BREAKING THE LAW. That can’t be stressed strongly enough.
Despite what some have said here about them ‘being on the right track,’ that is a misnomer – because just their presence here is a CRIME.
I can’t figure out why anyone thinks it’s okay to reward crime.
I told my children long ago – if you don’t like a law – change it…but don’t break it.
For too long, we’ve been glossing over the fact that the illegals are criminals. There should be NO amnesty – only deportation.
For those who enter legally, I welcome them with open arms.
Well, GS, our experience with our daughters (not home schooled) was significantly different than yours. In applying to the various schools (including KU), they were required to submit a current transcript; and, for the schools where they were accepted and elected to matriculate, a final transcript was required, as the acceptance was conditional until such time, the schools wanting to assure that they didn’t “blow off” second semester.
Vaughn,
Sports isn’t fair, neither is life most of time. In life, individuals have to qualify. To make a team, players have to qualify. Players get cut and don’t make the team.
Everybody playing isn’t possible. Some will play more than others on a team.
Every player in practice, does play. Every player on a team must get their chance in a game, eventually. Not equal minutes between all players.
Public tax money has nothing to do with it.
You can have a chess club, orchestra, at a Science Olympiad, maybe everyone is doing a science project or has completed something in 2 person teams, everyone there can play in those events. Equal time for that is very doable.
I doubt ever society shows up in sizes of 100,000 people at some colleges to see a football game, will do that for a chess match or orchestra event.
That’s the way it is.
To get the biggest fans, aggression has to happen. Football is a length game. People like to see long runs and deep passing down the field.
Chess, that doesn’t happen.
Kids have a variety of things they can learn, but athletics is a part of it. Smart kids, non athletes might love the social experience being at sporting events. Smart kids like statistics of sports and history of it from books.
Non athletes like to watch sports, talk about it, so they feel a part of the process.
I don’t agree with cutting athletics or recess to keep kids in class taking tests. Some schools cut out recess. No leaving recess behind.
Athletics in schools does cost money but its worth it.
Wichita can be improved if more sports fields are constructed. Sports matters to improvement of communities.
Our orchestra groups at Century II are having financial problems, directly related to lack of people in Wichita, because we don’t have college football. We don’t have enough group gathering events.
Going all year round will not burn out the kids it will help in the long run.
IITY,
The only way year round school wont burn them out is if there were say at least a week off per quater plus 2 or 3 weeks off at christmas and summer.
The last i heard they were looking into 4 day a week 3 day week ends.
I think it would be the best for all kids if they went all year around.
yea, 4 day weeks and 3 day weekends are great BUT you have a serious problem with carrying for the kids on that 3rd day. it will be extreamly hard break that type of system into the working world we have today.
Tony – kind of like what the rest of us need!
yea ben, but do u think your company would let u work a 4 day week???
like i said before it is all about the kids, its not what you think your company you work for its the life your kids have to deal with while growing up.I have a 3 day work week and a four day work week but I have no trouble dealing with the extra time i need to find some place for my to kids to be when I am working, kids come first.
inreguards to home schooling i think it is a joke,talk about not giving yours kids a chance at life,their goes there social skills
I would not add time to the school day but I do think that time should added to the school year including phasing out the “summer vacation” of 3 months. It should eventually be cut down to July only moving 2 weeks of the time to December and giving students that month off. Every study I have seen says that kids forget alot of they learned during the long summer break.
It is ridiculous that the illiterate Mrage feels qualified to comment on matters of education.
What about it Apophis? Are you proud that Mrage is a graduate of Wichita public schools and does not know the difference between “they’re” and “their,” or does not care that there is a difference?
I am a graduate of the Wichita Public Schools and I know the difference between their, there and they’re. There was once a time in their lives that they were far from where they’re now!
“What about it Apophis? Are you proud that Mrage is a graduate of Wichita public schools and does not know the difference between “they’re” and “their,” or does not care that there is a difference? ……………. I fail to see your correlation “n”. Yes, a HS graduate from ANYWHERE should know the correct usage of these words, but just how this mistaken use of words indicate that there (not “their or they’re”) is something terribly wrong with Wichita Public Schools?
I’ve been a bit busy the last day or so to comment on the heartlander inspired bloviating on this thread.
Good little ditty, and sadly true.
Go on to sleep now,Third grader of mine.The test is tomorrow,But you’ll do just fine.It’s reading and math.Forget all the rest.You don’t need to knowWhat is not on the test.
Each box that you markOn each test that you take ?Remember your teachers.Their jobs are at stake.Your score is their score,But don’t get all stressed.They’d never teach anythingNot on the test.
Sleep, sleep, and as you progressYou’ll learn there’s a lotThat is not on the test.
Debate is a skill thats useful to knowUnless you’re in Congress or talk radioWhere shouting and spouting and spewing are blessed’Cause rational discourse’ was not on the test.
Thinking’s important …It’s good to know how.And someday you’ll learn toBut that someday’s not now.Go on to sleep now.You need your rest.Don’t think about thinking ?It’s not on the test.
To hear the lullabye:
http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1515949&tstart=60