Most Americans, like most of the members of Congress who overwhelmingly voted for the USA Patriot Act, expected it be used judiciously in the war on terrorism, not routinely abused. But Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine has found instances of improper and illegal use of the law to obtain highly personal information about U.S. residents, including phone records. And the FBI has badly underreported its use of “national security letters” to acquire customer information from businesses. The FBI says it will fix the problems, but it can expect closer scrutiny from Congress. As Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., said, the report “proves that ‘trust us’ doesn’t cut it.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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“The nation’s top two law enforcement officials acknowledged Friday the FBI broke the law to secretly pry out personal information about Americans. They apologized and vowed to prevent further illegal intrusions.”
Why am I not surprised? Abuse of power by this administration. Go figure.
When the subject of the extent of the Patriot act and the powers it gave was brought up it was compare to the famous “Camel’s nose under the tent”. Having been in Law Enforcement I knew that was true, once there is an opening , a “free shot” it opens the door to farther uses. When the powers were not limited by a pre-condition that it had to be limited to only the investigation of terrorism and it had to be establish able in a court of law that it was in fact only for the investigation of terrorism. It opened the door for the use of the act to go on fishing trips. No one is not guilty of a crime, we are all in fact criminals in the violation of one law or another. Look hard enough and anyone can be found to be a violator of the laws of the land.
This is just a case where the camel needs to have its nose smacked.
Quoted from article Rhonda quotes from:”Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice auditors who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.”
I guess this leads to another conclusion now doesn’t it Rhonda?
That is, there is no indication of criminal misconduct.
These were most likely the typical kind of errors that happen every day. Using the wrong form, forgetting to get a signature, misfiling the form.
Nothing like this ever happens at our own County Courthouse does it?
Yeah right.
Ah yes, just an honest mistake. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
With the Bush administration, if it’s not one damn thing, it’s another.
Republikhan sez:”That is, there is no indication of criminal misconduct.”
If there are republicans involved, that’s an indication of “criminal misconduct”.
Yes and the neocons still support this horrid legislation. They don’t give a crap about who gets their civil rights impeded, they always assume it won’t be THEIRS that get crunched.
But I see it’s awfully quiet on the side that said when we debated this to begin with, “you can’t prove they are targeting innocent Americans”. Well, I guess we can prove that now.
But they won’t think it actually means anything. They will have excuses. Like: “If you’re not doing anything wrong why would you care AS LONG AS WE’RE SAFE!” Etc., etc., etc. We’ve heard them all and they’ll bring them out again. Maybe someone will provide them with new talking points, but they will still be excuses.
Glad someone knows our greatest fear is fear itself AND this Bush Administration and their abuses of power.
I know I don’t feel safer! In fact, I feel Bush has put our country in greater threat of danger.
I agree Linda Inks. I agree.
I’m so glad you’re posting more!
Well, I’ve had some health concerns (nothing serious, just painful) and have been immobilized. Can’t be out and about, walking, gardening… as much. More time to post. Hoping that changes SOON! This getting older is not for sissies. lol
Political Mom writes: “But I see it’s awfully quiet on the side that said when we debated this to begin with, “you can’t prove they are targeting innocent Americans”. Well, I guess we can prove that now.”
Okay Political Mom, I’ll bite on the bait. Show me in the article referenced where proof can be found that innocent American are being targeted.
You Libs won’t even read the news article being referenced and draw conclusions based on conspiratorial ideologies.
Amazingly clueless these Liberals.
I guess with RepubliKhan and his ilk, it’s okay to violate the law so long as it serves their purpose.
I am under the understanding that the law applies to EVERYBODY. But you’ll never get this administration, nor any of its jack-boot followers, to believe it applies to them.
I believe this arrogance is what lost these same sheeple to lose the last election to Democrat control. But then again, what more could you expect from neo-con sheeple?
Hey J M Walker,
Are you the J M that everyone swears that I am?
Anyway, back on topic.
Read the article; And I know you won’t so I will cut and paste once again for you simple-minded conspiracy laden liberals.
“Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice auditors who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.”
J M Walker, another sheeple of the Liberal ilk, jackbooted his way to credibility by making assumptions based on ideological BS.
“Show me in the article referenced where proof can be found that innocent American are being targeted.”
Read the article agan, rkhan. Like the part “The nation’s top two law enforcement officials acknowledged Friday the FBI broke the law to secretly pry out personal information about Americans. They apologized and vowed to prevent further illegal intrusions.”
Is there some confusion about what “acknowledged” means? Or maybe it’s the “illegal intrusions” part that some people don’t understand.
Republicans give a whole new meaning to the word “corrupt”.
On page 29 of the 199 page report, it says that the result of the investigations the FBI gleaned in the illegal use of the security letters resulted in charges against individuals for 1) fraud, 2) immigration and 3) money laundering. Considering the difference between how many reports they obtained, and how many were charged, obviously you have some innocent people in there, in the scores of thousands.
Now if you recall, those are criminal charges, and criminal actions were not supposed to be something they were going after. They were supposed to be using them for national security only.That was a point of contention for this whole thing, and it appears they regularly provided information to local law enforcement in order to prosecute criminal cases.
On page 31- out of the 26 investigations (for this section of the report) 15 were US citizens and 8 were not.http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/s0703b/final.pdf
The pages I cited were PDF pages, they don’t jive with the pages on the report.
On page 29 of the 199 page report, it says that the result of the investigations the FBI gleaned in the illegal use of the security letters resulted in charges against individuals for 1) fraud, 2) immigration and 3) money laundering. Considering the difference between how many reports they obtained, and how many were charged, obviously you have some innocent people in there, in the scores of thousands.
Now if you recall, those are criminal charges, and criminal actions were not supposed to be something they were going after. They were supposed to be using them for national security only.That was a point of contention for this whole thing, and it appears they regularly provided information to local law enforcement in order to prosecute criminal cases.
On page 31- out of the 26 investigations (for this section of the report) 15 were US citizens and 8 were not.http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/s0703b/final.pdf
The pages I cited were PDF pages, they don’t jive with the pages on the report.
Very nice researching Political Mom, but you are missing the point in the article.
Once again, here is the statement from the Justice Department Investigators:
“Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said JUSTICE AUDITORS who were careful to note they found NO INDICATION of CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT.”
No indication of Criminal Misconduct is exactly that.
Being charged with something and having outside Audit investigators from the Justice Department stating that there wereNO CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT proves that my evaluation of the situation is correct.
Political Mom, your evaluation of the situation is incorrect.
Did you bother to read the PDF?
Because had you did, you’d see that you can’t apply one statement to the entire article, it wasn’t a summary statement.
There are many different parts in that, and what applies to one section of the report, does not necessarily apply to the other.
I find it criminal to violate the constitutional rights of Americans. Do you?
And if you note, in the statement I stated above, the items mentioned were NOT related to recordkeeping, they were related solely to the content of the people they were investigating.
The recordkeeping part was only a small section.
I have my compliment (per yesterday’s Open thread)! Absolutely sincere and certainly goes to someone I don’t agree with, respect or would otherwise compliment as posts deserve…
RepubliKhan, I think you are the most loyal person I’ve ever met. You are overwhelmingly loyal to the president of the United States of America, his policies, everyone who works under him and everything done on his behalf. And you defend the undefensible to remain loyal.
LOL Linda.
Yes, I scanned the PDF, it was quite large and took awhile to download, it’s still in my temporary file folder.
The conclusion from that report still holds to the quote I posted several times already.
There were charges and no criminal misconduct was found.
Will some people get fired or disciplined? Probably, because they did not follow their own rules and procedures.
Will they get prosecuted? I don’t know but they might considering how the Libby -great conspiracy trial went – that was based on absolutely nothing.
What I mean to say is that FBI agents may get prosecuted for submitting false reports or misrepresentation of the facts.
If you were work for the government, you can get charged for these type of things in court and the effect of Justice served will be quite heavy.
However, there is nothing criminally negligent here. This is a problem with some slipshod agents and perhaps some who were arrogant.
Linda Inks writes:
“RepubliKhan, I think you are the most loyal person I’ve ever met. You are overwhelmingly loyal to the president of the United States of America, his policies, everyone who works under him and everything done on his behalf. And you defend the undefensible to remain loyal.”
Using your logic Linda Inks, I could say the same thing about you by just substituting your name and the Democratic Party into that paragraph.
Evidently anyone with a view in opposition to you must have something wrong with them.
This is the problem with Liberals. They claim free speech, equal rights and the right for everyone to express their opinions, except for those on the Right side politically.
That about sum it up Linda Inks?
That’s how I sum up hypocritical thinking Linda Inks. The Left are composed of a bunch of hypocrites.
Power corrupts.
THIS administration has been given and has grabbed more power than any in history. Little surprise more corruption is revealed by the day. It’ll be interesting to see how far it goes now that the Democrats are shining a light on the roaches.
J R,
The Democrats in Congress are splintering into their own little opposition groups as we speak and as predicted they would.
The Democrats simply can’t hold it together.
You know what is said in Britain about the Democratic Party?
They say the Democratic Party has a lot of good ideas, but they never seem to follow through and end up pecking at each others head chasing the other others out of their nests.
The Europeans have the same view of the Democratic party as most Americans. That is, big talkers and do-nothings.
I remember how the conservatives on this blog poo-pooed our concerns about mis-use and abuse. Looks like it’s turning out just like we said it would.
Yeah X, I think this abuse was predicted, I think the utter failure in iraq was predicted, etc.
I think that’s why the right side of the blog is so out of control. No one hates being wrong more than a neocon!
Damnit! Who left the pig stall gate open again!?!
… and the stalking and trolling continues.
Sing along with me. Sung to the tune of “Who let the dogs out”
Who let the pigs out!?! Oink, Oink Oink Oink Oink!
RepubliKhan: “That’s how I sum up hypocritical thinking Linda Inks. The Left are composed of a bunch of hypocrites.”————-
Sum me up anyway you choose. Your opinion is your opinion. I scroll over many, if not most, of them. ;-)
“Sum me up anyway you choose. Your opinion is your opinion. I scroll over many, if not most, of them. ;-)”Posted by: lindainks55 | March 10, 2007 at 11:15 AM
No skin off my butt Linda Inks, your right and privilege to do so.
Wow, it’s amazing how the the repukes, such as RepubliKhan ( by the way, I am the original J M Walker; you, on the other hand, are JM . . . you both write the same way. But I expect you will disagree, as cherry picking and obsfucation are your stock and trade.)will search for tidbits to support their position, and disregard the bulk of facts that prove them dead wrong.
As I said earlier, neo-con sheeple will break any law they deem necessary to further their cause. “For the common good” you proclaim. The problem with that is the “common” you covet has a strong aversion to lying, subversive neo-con sheeple herders, i.e., see the last election.
“…cherry picking and obsfucation are your stock and trade.)will search for tidbits to support their position, and disregard the bulk of facts that prove them dead wrong.”Posted by: J M Walker | March 10, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Thank you for that description. This is exactly what you Librats are doing on this thread.
Bills are usually given a name which are the opposite of what they do.
E.G. The Patriot Act is about as unpatriotic as Bush himself { which has become the new benchmark for treason }.
It appears that the founders wrote the Constitution with George W. Bush in mind. Now that’s real foresight to be able to see that jerk coming down the road…
The report is required to be issued to Congress every year. Since the Bush regime knew that the report would report bad news about abuses that liberals predicted Bush wanted it stopped. The Inspector General refused Bush’s demands that he not do his job and did what the law required.
So it’s yet another example of the Bush regime wanting to break the law in order to cover up one of their crimes.
Just maybe some of you have forgotten the reasons for the restrictions on law enforcement surveillance. From the 1940’s into the ’70’s and maybe beyond, the FBI kept extensive dossiers and wiretaps on dissidents and political enemies and used them for blackmail and character assassination for political ends.Maybe you’ve heard of the McCarthy hearings, where an unproven accusation would get you fired from your job and blacklisted from any other employment?Maybe you’ve heard of the FBI blackmailing civil rights leaders and fabricating evidence to convict anti-war activists?You give a government agency power with no accountability and you can bet that it will be abused. Who knows; maybe you’ll be the next to find out about it first-hand?
Remember Jed?
No, I don’t remember the 1940s at all.
Explain how those eras in anyway resemble what is going on currently.
It looks like to me the Justice Department is holding the FBI accountable for its administrative screw ups.
Nothing to see here on this matter, move along.
Unless you want to keep espousing on your Liberal conspiracy theories.
Ed,”It appears that the founders wrote the Constitution with George W. Bush in mind. Now that’s real foresight to be able to see that jerk coming down the road…”
They didn’t need foresight- Bush had all sorts of moral and intellectual equals in their day.I would hate to give Bush the distinction of being the worst at anything. Even as a villain, he’s pretty mediocre!
As Linda Inks said, Khan is nothing but loyal – Bush and the Neocons can do no wrong and when they are wrong it is because the liberals made them do it!
As Linda Inks said, Khan is nothing but loyal – Bush and the Neocons can do no wrong and when they are wrong it is because the liberals made them do it!
Posted by: WSClark | March 10, 2007 at 01:14 PM
The same applies to you Heevie.
Except adding the fact that you and Capn Communist are psychopathic belligerents that only look for Blog conflict without discussing the issues.
RepubliKhan, you keep posting –“Shoddy record-keeping and human error was to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice Auditors who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.”
Shoddy record-keeping and human error can also be defined as negligence.If that negligence has a willful intent then it can be consider as having a association to criminal misconduct.
… and you are NOT looking for conflict by calling me “Heevie,” Khan? I suppose that you think I should feel complimented by virtue of the fact that YOU have graced me with a pet name.
Damn, Khan, you are a truly hypocrite of epic proportions.
AgaKhan,No conspiracy theory- that’s just the way power has been abused forever! And I’m old enough to remember listening to the HUAC hearings on the radio; the parallels between the communist witch hunts then and the “war on terror” now are astonishing! Just substitute “Muslim” for “Commie,” and the rhetoric is the same recycled bullshit!
Jed,
Then your generation hasn’t learned a thing then by comparing Communism with Radical Muslim Ideology.
Gee, I would have thought after fifty years passed you could have figured out there is a huge difference between the two.
The difference between Communism and Muslim is Fundamentalism, but does that make the Republicans into Muslims?
Again, Republikant comes out swinging with both barrels empty.
There is a parallel between communism and RADICAL muslims. Both will slaughter at the drop of a hat, both seek to totally surpress the human spirit in favor of some entity, i.e., the supreme leader, Mohammad, etc. Both disregard any personal freedoms in favor of other time dependant problem-of-the-day, to be decided in the ruling elites honor.
When it comes to killing innocents in the process of spreading hate, there is no difference between the two: they’re all murderers. The difference neos see is related to their propensity towards total disregard for the facts, i.e., the Iraq war.
The Patriot Act is a horrible piece of law and, if the courts don’t get the spine to get rid of it, the Congress should for obvious reasons. And any business that willingly hands over your personal info without a warrant issued by a court should be out of business.
I see J M Walker. A nation state is the same as a small group of individuals with an interpretation of a faith that is set out to kill non-believers.
I suppose they better start re-writing those History and Political Science text books at Universities across the country.
Ask the victims of either your nation state or “small group” who they would rather be killed by. Oh, I forgot, your compassion only goes so far and doesn’t include “incidental” damage.
A nation ruled by a dictator, Czar, whatever, or a “small” group run by a fanatic are no different from each other to the dead. I can understand why you would fail to see that, as the typical bushbot, such as yourself, can’t fathom compassion in its pure form, unless, of course, it comes with a price tag.
But you hang in there, son: someday you and your neo-con allies just might make it back in power again. I doubt it will happen, though, in my lifetime.
“That is, there is no indication of criminal misconduct“.In a sense you are right Republikhan in that it was not illegal under the Patriot act.It could be a violation of the principals of the Constitution, totally against the people and the right imposed by the Constitution. But there can be no criminal misconduct when the act has been made not criminal… God help us!
Perhaps writerdog, but’s way above my paygrade and at the Supreme Court level.
Khan Khan,Fundamentalist Marxism was fighting a form of Fundamentalist Capitalism that was already on it’s deathbed by the time of Russian revolution.Islamicism if far from being fundamentalist. It draws too much from infidel sources and ignores and twists too much of the Quran to be truly fundamentalist.But there still seems to be plenty of fundamentalism left to apply to whatever belief system.That aside, I am much less interested in our enemy’s beliefs than in our own knee-jerk reaction to anyone whose beliefs, ethnicity or income differ from our own. It’s not our enemies that will destroy us- they don’t need to do diddley- we’re well on the way to doing it to ourselves. To quote Pogo, “We have met the enemy and he is us!”PS. Reagan didn’t win the cold war; he was simply the schmoe in office when the Soviet Union collapsed under it’s own weight. American arming the islamists in Afganistan may have sped it’s demise by a few years, but it also created our present problems! And you gave us Bush as a savior? That was world-class imbecility!
just got fired because of this new law.been working at the ammo arsenal for 15 yrs.i’m 54 yrs old and had a non violent felony 29yrs ago.now i have no job or insurance.what happens now????
Wow, I feel safer already!