The Legislature will begin debate Friday on some expanded gaming bills that, you guessed it, mostly exclude Sedgwick County. One would allow casinos only in the Kansas City and Pittsburg areas. Another bill would allow gambling at casinos and racetracks in Wyandotte, Crawford and Cherokee counties and, for five years, limit new gambling in Sedgwick and Ford counties to slot machines at racetracks.
If that happens, our editorialtoday argues, it will confirm that the only Wichita-area voices being heard on this issue in Topeka are coming from the anti-gambling members of our legislative delegation.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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38 Comments
The anti-arena people better make their pro-gambling voices heard in the Legislature. Then, when the arena fails completely, as it will in 5 years or less, it might be sold to some entity (for 3 cents on the $1) for conversion into a casino.
We can’t even get a VOTE on a casino here.
Why?
Because Paul Rosell’s CON SPAWN take money from gaming interests in the north-east to make sure our democratic process is killed here.
Look for hays to try and weasel in here somewhere, sometime.
Look for governor leadership to support whatever hays wants.
Wichita? Not so much….
Who cares…If you want to gamble go to Vegas or one of the River Boat Gambling Casinos.
We don’t need cheap imitation Casinos here.
What a bunch of whiners.
So what else is new. rm - not only should the anti-arena people be doing this but so should the pro-arena people. According to Mrage revenues from a casino will help fund the deficits of the arena.
ksfg - don’t blame Sebelius for this - blame Sedgwick County “leaders” (sic).
KFG,Why will Kathleen do anything Hays wants? just curious.
btw, I want to thank you for enlightening me, as well as many others, on the water issues. Keep up the good fight!
I agree Ben.
I hear talk in hays all the time though, that they have governor leadership in their pocket, and they want to promote their wild west heritage too. So…
Yes. Wichita is it’s own worst enemy, just like western kansas.
You send folks like susan “I own bingo parlours but you cant vote on gambling” wagle to topeka.
We send folks like janis “I never met an irrigator I wouldnt blow” lee.
And people wonder why young folks leave and never come back…
Thank you Wichi!
Hays, Trego, and Russell counties used to be the only reliably democratic voting counties in western kansas.
In 2002, Trego county was the third leading vote getter for Sebelius by percentages. SIXTY THREE percent of the votes cast went to governor leadership, even though the county is now registered republican 3:1
But, along came hays to drain Cedar Bluff, and governor leadership lost all support in western ks. EXCEPT in hays. It is the only reliably democrat county out here.
John Bird, hays city attorney is former state chair, clinton-gore chair, and just won the big award at washington days last week.
Glenn staab, the ellis county chair, won the first “county chair of the year” award a couple of years ago.
John montogmery, the former publisher of the hays daily, now the publisher of the hutch paper, is the grandson of the grand pubah of the democrats in ks. It is his grandfather john bird’s award is named for.
eber phelps is the dem whip, I think? janis lee is one of the governor’s best friends and an integral part of governor leadership’s female mafia
The list could go on but I think you have the picture.
That is why the Cedar Bluff thing irks me so. There was no reason, other than political, to conduct secret meetings, sign contracts in secret, run water from Cedar Bluff down the Smoky and not MEASURE it until it reaches Russell, etc.
Hays had no rights to water in Cedar Bluff. They did have sr. rights on the Smoky. They conspired with russell, who did have rights in the lake, to call for releases.
But MEASUREING it at Russell. That means hays, and all the irrigators along the river, could pump as much as they wanted BEFORE the measurements were taken at RUSSELL. (Actually, pfeifer!)
So, what joe harkins promised would be a “small amount of water” became about three times what Russell actually had rights to, had the water been measured when it left Cedar Bluff, not when it reached Russell.
Oh, btw. The kwo installed a gauge at the dam after the fact. But the “official” measurement takes place at Pfeifer.
I could go on and on, but I just dont think anyone really cares. Or will care until it is THEIR water that wont run out of the tap.
I’m learning I cant save kansas from itself.
Oh, and while russell and hays were draining Cedar Bluff on the east end?
The inflow on the west end was zero. Nada. Zip.
KWO logic.
Sorry for getting carried away, and this will be the last post here on water. I didnt mean to hijack the thread.
The Cedar Bluff fiasco is setting up some very interesting political stuff in Saline and Ellsworth counties right now.
Josh Svaty thought draining Cedar Bluff was a GREAT idea when eber phelps and governor leadership told him what to think.
Now? heheheheh. If that same precident is applied at Kanopolis?
I think the folks in Salina and Ellsworth will want to have a chat with Josh in general and governor leadership in particular.
she cant sidestep these issues forever. Sooner or later, she will have to chose among her favorite children ’cause David Pope has made sure, through over appropriation, that there isnt enough water to satisfy everyone.
Like bushco on iraq, I think governor leadership just wants to sing “lalalalalala” about water and hopes to run out the clock so the next gov has to deal with the water shortages.
…and did I mention that governor leadership’s ol’ pal steve miller is the chief lobbiest for sunflower electric, the owner of the controversial coal fired power plant in holcomb? The one that will use 30,000 acre feet of water per year?
And did I mention that sunflower electric is based in, guess where?
hays
ksfarmgrll has had a nut pop loose as she is posting about water on a gambling thread.
Another display of the irrelevancy of her puny life.
Wah, Wah, Wah. I love it. Once again the “tax on stupidity” (thats the real name for gambling) people have formed their annual circular firing squad and are blasting away at each other. This of course means that once again another legislative session will soon ajourn without any new gambling in this State. And I for one couldn’t be happier.My biggest fear is that some day that N.E. Kansas, S.E.Kansas, Sedgwick County, Geary County, Dodge City, etc will get it together and quit trying to cut each others throat and actually manage to get something passed. Its probably not going to happen while Governor “Do Nothing” is in office as she obviously doesn’t want to do anything to get her skirt dirty while she waits for the call from the big boys and girls back in D.C.One things for sure. When she does leave Kansas for Washington, it will raise the I.Q. of both places.
Gambling is a personal choice of how ‘free’ people are allowed to spend their hard earned $$.Why am I responsible enough to carry a .38, but, I’m not responsible enough to put MY quarter into a slot machine? Answer that one Phil Journey.I’m as conservative as the day is long, but, sometimes our current Republican party disgust’s me.
Perhaps kansasfarmsow could help with water usage by not bathing.
…wait, it smells like that action’s already done been taken.
Hey Sanford, cool your jets. Nobody’s stopping you from putting a quarter in a slot machine. You may have to drive a little or catch one of those 69.00$ cut rate flights to Vegas, but isn’t half the fun getting there. I just don’t want the State of Kansas in the casino business which it must be according to the state constitution.My concern is what happens in a few short years when the entire middle U.S. is saturated with gambling and they are all going broke. Will our taxes have to be raised to make up the shortfall in revenue from declining gambling revenues? Think it won’t happen? It already did about fifteen years ago when they put a dog track down in Pittsburg that had to close after a year and a half without ever making dime one
Well then EAGLE, why dont you guys grow a set and call out Phil Ruffin for intimidating all the folks in this area to vote against Gambling. He wants to put in slots only at the Greyhound loser track. He has lots of money, so guess what. No gambling here.
We shouldn’t be held up because he bought into a dog track no one gives a shit about. Although it would make a good trailer park.Its out of the road , just like the Coliseum. Put a big casino right in the middle of the WaterWalk and watch it go. Have it privately owned and managed by professional gamers and NOT Indian gaming. Get competition for the gambling, not a monopoly. Make sure it has card gaming, shows, sports book etc. Not just the Walmart gambling such as quarter slots.
CapnYou owe me an apology.I dont think I have ever expressed a gambling view publicly — except to say that I am personally very conflicted by the issue.
In fact, I would gladly accept an invitation to a friendly poker game with you at any time.
Thirty years ago, I used to play poker in the Marine Reserves. I quit because I was winning most games and losing friends.
State sponsored gambling bothers me.
Look at it this way: I am in the investment business. Nobody who has invested with me and stuck with my suggestions for 5 years has lost money.
However, I sit and watch TV, and right after Securities Commissioner Biggs comes on with his stupid commercials bashing one of the best investments in history: Variable Annuities, another Kansas ad comes on pushing the lottery.
Simply put, I can put an 85 year old spinster in the riskiest investments I can find, and be far more likely to make money for her than if she took her $50K to the casino or the Kansas Lottery.
However, I would lose my Insurance and Securities licenses and be subject to fines and restitution, based on suitability, if she lost money with ME.
The State of Kansas never pays back a dime to anyone. Not even the mentally infirm that blow thousands a year on lottery tickets.
I hate “pay day loan” companies. I also hate “Wentworth and Comany” and other companies who prey on the underclass. However, I think heavy regulations, rather than prohibition are the way to handle these seedy businessoperations.
I am amazed at liberals who can bash pay day loans and other businesses that prey on the uneducated, yet push gambeling so hard.
I like casinos. I like to go to casinos myself a few times a year.
I am not a gambling addict, however, and I do worry about the social cost of no-holds-barred open-casino gambeling.
If you are not worried about the downside of gambling, then you are a damn hypocrite if you EVER post any comment about any other unfair business practice.
Casinos are unfair, by design, and there is no recourse if you lose.
I understand this.
I can control myself. Others cant.I have a responsibility, as do you, to think about those who can’t control themselves.
Casinos are not the hot thing they used to be anyway. There are too many of them and everybody in the USA now lives within an hour or 2 of a casino. Used to be you had to go to Nevada to gamble. Not only that but the internet offers much the same thing as you can get in a casino if you just want to gamble.
Phil Ruffin supported slots in Greyhound Park and other dog tracks in Kansas for years because nothing else Casino related was offered Topeka. He thought slots would save the dog tracks.
Now, its theoretically possible to get full casino’s licenses from Topeka, if they are done properly.
The State isn’t partial owners of the Casino’s. That’s what Ruffin probably wants. Topeka has suggested partial ownership in new casino legislation. His lawyer is arguing against that.
Politicians up there are leaving Sedgwick County out because they can.
Weak legislators. Weak Wichita leadership in Topeka. Largest city in state of Kansas is weak politically in Topeka.
It begans with our County just now getting some press about wanting a casino. Being in the discussion.
Any casino legislation and Sedgwick County is left out, would be wrong for the State of Kansas, due to politics.
Other communities don’t want Sedgwick County or Wichita to have new things.
Left out purposefully of casino discussion.
Cabela’s and Wyandotte county in years past changed rules of Topeka offered ‘Star Bonds’ so Wichita wouldn’t bother discussing anything with Bass Pro Shop. BPS requires public money to construct buildings they use.
Olathe has announced ideas to build their own arena because KU is so close. Olathe just opened a Bass Pro Shop.
If we build our arena too small with 15,000 seats, we will be sad.
Our downtown arena should have 18,000 seats for basketball.
Lock up future NCAA men’s basketball games like the 18,000 seat Ford Center in Oklahoma City is doing. They have the 2010 First and Second round mens basketball games for the March Madness Tournament. Today, they are having the Big 12 tournament.
Free standing arena’s in this regional area must compete.
We could possibly get the Big 12 Men’s basketball tourney if we build a 18,000 seats for basketball, downtown arena.
We can handle one large casino in the County. The state is offering it should be a $200 Million dollar destination.
A Casino has entertainment shows, creates more hotels in the gambling zone. Better class of hotels.
New Convention centers get built. Some want a larger Century II. Could be larger connected to a new hotel elsewhere, downtown.
Its not just gambling hurting desperate people. It’s a nightlife and entertaining few hours for people who don’t gamble everyday.
Internet gambling is illegal.
Phil Ruffin isn’t promoting slots at Greyhound Park anymore on his website. No page shown.
He has a possiblity to get a full casino license now.
http://www.ruffinco.com/gaming.htm
When we create “destination places” like a casino, our downtown arena, they have to be competitive for events.
We wouldn’t be competitive if other counties got a casino and we didn’t.
If we don’t scream and yell at the County for an 18,000 seat arena, we can have competition when other counties or cities like Olathe build their 18,000 seat arena.
Because they have KU so close by.
We have to fight as a community for these types of events to be in Sedgwick County, preferably located downtown.
Saturation won’t happen in Kansas if only a few counties get casino’s by keeping the price $200 Million dollars for the license.
It can’t be public tax money either.
Tribal casino’s have enemies in Washington. Especially out of state tribes trying to open one here in Kansas, like Bob Knight was trying to rally support.
I am totally against gambling! It is a personal choice that effect others as well as the gamblers own children are harmed by their parents addiction. A drain upon the tax payers in mental health cost of treating those that are addicted to gambling. I hate to be walking by and have to be submitted to gamblers and they total disregard for others rights to not be exposed to their sickening addiction.
They should be force to be far away from civilized people so we can not smell them after they have fed their sickening habit! Every year millions dollars are spend to feed a habit that in the end causes their loved one to suffer the terrible loss of the live of someone that they care about but seem to be able to do little to help them kick their addiction. They are selfish for having so little control over their choice to gamble.
It may have started when they were children, expose to gambling in a house where their mother or father were gamblers. This is a form of child abuse in my opinion, the parents should be arrested! We should toughen the laws against underage gambling. Anyone caught selling or buying cards or poker chips to or for anyone under 18. Need to face a stiff jail time and/or large fine.
Paul - you make many good points. I personally find no attraction to casinos. As a tourist I have visited several; mostly to ’size them up’ in the context of Wichita. What might work; what might not.
I found the one in montreal interesting; not a real big building but multi-story. I tend to doubt the viability of a huge facility here in Wichita; with all the other ones around I don’t know that one here would draw much beyond 100 miles.
So, I look for a modest sized one. Tony has developed an idea for one at the Broadview. I also wonder if something could be done at Century II or even the library.
The key to any of these is this: I want it done with PRIVATE MONEY. It’s called capitalism.
Your point about those who cannot control themselvesis well taken Paul. However, the genie is already out of the bottle. They play the lottery; they go to Topeka; they go to Oklahoma. Then our community still must deal with the problems; without the revenues.
I would require a slice of the revenues go to such programs.
Mrage: “Our downtown arena should have 18,000 seats for basketball.”
Have you expressed your concerns to the proper authorities? Since that would be a significant departure from current plans how do you propose making it happen?
Ben,
I’m not done speaking to people or companies that could help stop the County and make them smell the roses.
Having a 15,000 seat arena will stink. Must change Dave Unruh’s mind.
I don’t accept administrators talking like robots. They don’t seem to be knowledgeable of Arena 101.
Build a facility in a regional market and make it competitive for events. Regional competition facilities have 18,000 seats.
Its easy conversation. Point out facilities with 18,000 seats get in comparison to how Wichita will be shut of future events with a 15,000 seat arena.
People will walk right by the arena, never go in. People could walk right by a casino and never go in.
I drive by liquor stores and rarely go in.
I think people can make a choice. Some can’t stop their vices.
Limiting casino and slot machines to one building, can work.
I wouldn’t like slot machines in other buildings. No slots at the dog track if we get a full casino.
“internet gambling is illegal”Don’t make me laugh! So is downloading free music on the internet. Certainly hasn’t stopped anybody has it?
Mrage - good luck with that. It will be 15,000 seats. You can bet on it.
Have you talked to Wolverton? He seems to be happy with 15,000.
EconPaul–
He’s outraged! that I would suggest that I knew what he thinks about gambling!
Uh . . . re-read the post.
I said you SUPPORT candidates and help get them elected that take money from NE gambling interests to stifle the democratic process here.
I too am against casinos. But the public has a right to vote them in if THE MAJORITY wants them.
Remember “the majority,” Econ?
They’re the ones that are supposed to have influence in a democracy . . .
Of course, WORST. PRESIDENT. EVER. has thwarted the will of the majority ever since he got himself installed into the White House by judicial fiat.
Oh, yeah, here’s my apology to you, EconPaul:
bugger off.
BenThanks for your comments.I agree with you as well.
CapnI can’t understand those who care so much about gambling that they would make it their primary issue, their number one concern when they vote.While I do care about the issue, it is way down on my list of priorities.
CapnBy the way, “majority rule” is mob rule.You liberals used to be known as a party that protected the minority.Again, how can any of you bash any business practice if you allow full-blown gambling without recourse for the Alzheimer patient who uses a home-equity credit card in the slot machine?We will need more “pay-day” and car title loan companies if we bring in a casino.Yes, I would enjoy it. My girlfriend would probably work there, she is a great dealer. But I would feel guilty about those who do not realize that gambling is not a money making activity, but only an amusement or recreational activity.
Kev,
Think these kind of music downloading folks are happy.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003609021_musicsuit09.html
Download tracking is easy to find by identifying ISP numbers. Colleges are going after students doing it on their servers.
Fine being paid back the music corporations is one thing.
Gamble on the internet and someday the IRS comes knocking.
People who gamble on the internet spend money on a local casino if there is one around.
Betting is fun occasionally on sports but it’s not really gambling unless someone is betting on every game and the point spread.
We can handle one casino in the county. Don’t allow the spread of slot machines.
Ben,
The word is out to Brewer, Mayans and Kolb. Make the county build a 18,000 seat arena.
Robots say 15,000 seats, the decesion makers can change things.I hoping corps put some pressure on the County. We need the proper sized arena. 18,000 seats is the proper size in this regional market.
Today we can see the Big 12 mens basketball games being played in Oklahoma City at the Ford Center.
That event should be downtown, some future year. If we have a 18,000 seat arena similar sized to the Ford Center, in Oklahoma City and The Sprint Center still to open in Kansas City. Both have 18,000 seats.
Both will get a little larger because each may attract an NBA team in the future. NCAA has a standard in this area, play games in 18,000 seat facilities.
We can’t compete for arena events with a 15,000 seat arena.
“Robots say 15,000 seats”
On this we agree. When I say 15,000 seats I am simply acting as an observer. I am not a participant in the decision-making process.
Good luck with your efforts. Your best approach IMO is to get the thing re-opened - i.e. revote. Otherwise - and mark my words - we will get that 15,000 seat one.
Kolb has said it will be 15,000. Think you can change his mind?
I voted for the arena and what was proposed is not in fact what has become.
I agree with the others, I was lied to and there should be a revote and a consideration how the money should be used.
Ben,
Everyone’s mind can be changed by the proper information and the right “leverage”.
I don’t know Kolb personally, but some business folks do. Its Kolb and Buchanan, buddies for a long time when they were younger, both minds have to change.
Nothing is built yet, designs on computer can be improved. County can do it. HOK can. The site is altered, arena with 18,000 seats. Less area for VIP parking on the site.
Some really hate that!
How come I wasn’t lied to about the arena. I would be lied to if we kept the Coliseum running. That place is not competitive in arena events in our region. Its too small for our future use attracting events. Its ugly! People who play in that facility against The Thunder hate it.
It has handicap issues, needing radical fixing. Not the facility to put money into long term.
Unless fraud is proved in the way election happened, the re-vote won’t happen.
Its not against the original plan to add seats from 15,000 to 18,000. No one is suggesting the sales tax will increase. Increasing seats gives corporations more ability to participate. Get the events we need to happen downtown, that are great to have.
The Big 12 mens basketball tournament and future NCAA March Madness first and second round games would be exciting to have in Wichita.
The Coliseum can’t attract those kinds of events.
Good luck with that. How much more will it cost with 18,000 seats? Where will you get the additional money?
We were told there would be a $23,611,000 reserve fund. NOT! We were told they would build parking. NOT! Maybe you weren’t told those things; I know I was. And I kept a copy of the pdf.
IT WILL BE BUILT. IT WILL BE 15,000 SEATS. MARK MY WORDS.
There is one and only one possible (but slim) way to change that.
“The Coliseum can’t attract those kinds of events”
Neither can the Arena.
Ben,
I can’t tell you how any corp will help the 18,000 seat arena gets built.
That’s what you want to know. Who and how much. That’s where money could come from.
The County has “things” to trade with any corporation or business who partners on the downtown arena project.
Why are so you future adamant. Nothing will happen if you don’t believe. I hope things will happen, if the right circumstances are introduced into a project.
There is never a perfect plan for anything. How to construct something, affording it. Plans flow and hopefully the right structure gets built.
If we had a 18,000 seat arena we can compete for events that happen in Oklahoma City and Kansas City.
Obviously the 15,000 seat arena won’t be able to.
Plans can change. Your PDF files can be made meaningless and the sales tax ends on time.
“Why are so you future adamant. Nothing will happen if you don’t believe.”
Because I live in reality-world; not wish-world. My pdf files came from Holt; unless you change his min they mean a lot. One is what he promised me during the campaign. The other is the most recent version.
I am not adament that I “want” a 15,000-seat arena. I am adament that that is what Kolb will produce.
The ball is in your court. Prove me wrong. Prove Kolb wrong. Prove Wolverton wrong. You “hope things will happen, if the right circumstances … ” Well, then introduce those things.
I stand by my predictions. Time will tell.
Remember, this is NOT my project. If it bombs it is NOT on me. I am but an observer.