About two dozen people attended a rally for an arena revote Sunday. Not exactly an overwhelming show of support.
Mayor Carlos Mayans attended, saying that he wasn’t opposing the arena but was all for accountability. "This is not as much about the arena than it is about their frustrations," he said of those attending the rally.
Well, no — the rally was to call for a revote on the arena to scuttle the project.
Did any WE Bloggers show up?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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I actually don’t believe it! The last time I was in Denny’s they could barely handle me and my baby.
Two dozen would bury them!
Hank
“About two dozen people attended a rally for an arena revote Sunday. Not exactly an overwhelming show of support.”
Do you think the Eagle will say the same thing when covering one of their own pet projects that very few attend?
Randy is correct about the turnout. Of course, they didn’t cover the fact that it was going to happen either.
I think there is a lot of apathy on this; coupled with a feeling that there is no point objecting because it will be built anyway. And, as noted here, it WILL be built.
As I have said before, I HOPE the thing works. However, my prediction stands - it will fail and they will be back to the taxpayers for subsidies real soon. The elimination of most of the promised $23,611,000 operating reserve will haunt them.
This rally could have taken place at the Nu-Way Cafe on West Douglas. I think they have a special right now - 2 medium Nu-Ways for $2.99.
Let people “protest”, whatever, but we need the arena. We need the proper sized arena.
Other communities are more experienced, because they have college football or some kind of NCAA tournament, experiencing events in their community.
Those things don’t happen in Wichita. The Coliseum wasn’t equal to neighboring states arena’s, so some “big time” events never happened here.
Some don’t think Wichita can step up in all the ways to have large events in this area.
The original idea for our arena, 15,000 seats many argue its too small. They are right. Omaha experienced the same thing constructing the Qwest Center.
They increased seating paying $5 Million more after the fact, to 18,000 so its more capable of getting events.
Creighton plays there.
WSU, KSU and our biggest capture would be KU off campus basketball playing downtown, occasionally.
We suggest to teams KU scheduled to play in Kansas City, we have a “neutral court” here. Some don’t want to play KU in the KC market.
The Big 12 just moved their basketball championship tournament to Oklahoma City at the Ford Center.
The Big 12 is likely to move that event around at different free standing arena’s. Just to keep it fresh for teams and fans.
Like they do with the football championship game.
If the arena project would have instantly desired those kind of events, people could understand the necessity having that kind of arena.
Events we see on TV could happen downtown someday.
With those events occasionally, plus high school games in the arena and concerts, the facility would be busy enough.
Ice hockey, the last event possibility.
I had to read about “downtown parking” thoughts from the early days in our arena project.
We will have a few larger parking lots, but most will be smaller. Some will park a block away, two blocks or in parking garages.
Its a challenge to figure the proper parking layout in a downtown area. But its not so problematic to ruin the downtown arena idea.
Not enough information has been shared to some people.
I lay blame on HOK and the Arena Group of people locally designing the structure.
They have to tell our County, what events are possible. County hired SMG, have they announced future event considerations?
We need future college basketball games and tournaments first. Every kind of concert is after that.
Questions about the Coliseum, someday it will meet a bulldozer. That could be a decade away. We need the facility for dirt shows.
The Thunder will likely move downtown or if Wink Hartman builds a gym facility in Park City, they will play there.
Thunder only needs a 10,000 seat facility.
The downtown arena needs 18,000 seats for basketball and we’re going to get one.
There is no way to construct an over $200 Million dollar facility and its not regionally big enough.
It has to be competitive for events going to the Qwest Center, in Omaha, to the Sprint Center in Kansas City and to the Ford Center in Oklahoma city.
Sedgwick County and Wichita, this will be our first regionally competitive arena.
The largest city in this state must have it.
Govs subsidize flights to the airport. Someday fans of events scheduled to play here, will increase traffic and pay less for tickets. Basketball teams coming to Wichita, will pay less.
It might entice Southwest Airlines if the increased traffic is constant over years.
Ben! I covered that already. Saying elimate most of the promised $23 million dollar operating reserve is not true. Please state the facts.
Plus! The Wichita Eagle DID announce there was going to be an anti-arena rally at Sedgwick County Park. So did the Wichita Business Journal. It was publized.
For those who support the idea of a downtown arena, in whole or in part, even if you have some issues with it, but in general, support it and support progress.
You can go to the For Arena website and sign up the online petition.
http://www.forarena.com
Many thanks,Joe
Sorry, i was too busy recovering from that j-hawk loss! =[
Randy Scholfield: I wish I still had my old high school journalism textbook, before trading it for engineering textbooks at K-State. I would like to review the ethical standards of a one metropolitan wide newspaper. I have a feeling that newspaper ethics would say the news side has a responsibility to print both sides of an issue. Otherwise only one side of the story will be told.
The omission by the Wichita EAGLE to cover both sides of this gigantic boondogle borders on an infringement of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution — that is, freedom of speech.
In any case, we are talking here about a gigantic, national level expenditure of local taxes controlled by a small group of local government officials, both county and municipal. Only minimal voice by the people is allowed and that is carefully controlled at public meetings where comments are virtually squashed.
I suppose the EAGLE would answer that “Oh, yes, we do print some letters-to-the-editor that criticize the arena.”
In my opinion, the Wichita EAGLE newspaper uses both its editorial and news sides to oppose discussion of the arena and slant its few articles against the issue. Frankly I have never understood this position.
Randy, the feelings of the public are disregarded and belittled by your articles and comments typified by your lead-in paragraph to this blog thread.
I believe a large majority of Sedgwick County taxpayers are opposed to the arena. Its difficult to get a reading because one is normally not permitted. I am told that in a TV station call-in poll last week, some 85% of the people who called in oppose the arena.
And the cost of this project is growing daily since there are not effective brakes on spending for this project. I formerly called it a QUARTER BILLION DOLLAR WHITE ELEPHANT. Now it appears the hammer is falling again with an ADDITIONAL $100,000,000 DOLLAR EXPENDITURE.
So this project is heading towards the $500,000,000.35 level — all for a glorified ice hockey rink. And get this, no ice hockey team nor any other team nor anyone that I have heard of wants to lease space in this boondogle.
If we were building a larger convention center nearer the Arkansas River, I could see it. If we were building a new larger library, I could see it. If we were building a hundred other Wichita civic improvements, I could see it — all of which would total less than the cost of this glorified ice rink.
BUT, PLEASE, WE DON’T NEED TO SPEND A FEDERAL LEVEL OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS FOR THIS GLORIFIED ICE RINK.
When I arrived back in Wichita about eight years ago, I looked forward to volunteering with the City as I have in other communities where I lived. I actually spent ten years in municipal work in the 1960’s which I enjoyed. I have generally been an insider and positive force in the cities in which I participated.
But this waste of taxes is so massive that I can’t step aside and let it pass without protesting.
Mrage! Hartman’s arena is only going to be a 5,000 seat arena.
The Wichita Thunder has already signed a letter of intent to be the anchor tenate for the downtown arena.
Our new downtown arena is still undergoing the architectual design stage now. It will seat much more than 15,000. The 15,000 is pretty much the permanant seating. That doesn’t include the 11,300 sq ft of 24 suites that will include seating or standing, with a capacity of 2,000 like many of the high end stadiums and arenas in progressive communities have.
That is your 17,000. If you want to add concert floor seating you can actually get up to 19,000 seating, if the concert stage isn’t big.
We are getting a world class facility.
But people who think it’s going to be a failure, believe that the Kansas coliseum is a failure also and everything that Wichita and the County does is a failure.
JWink
Your white elephant rant is disproved in other communities that have built arena’s.
You need a hotel with that new convention center idea.
Sale of Century II has to be done first.
Getting a Casino downtown is a way to do that. City sells The Hyatt, Library building and interior of Century II to a Casino group.
City selling those things that money could be spent for other civic projects.
Library is thinking about west bank location, I don’t know where, but that’s not going to cost much as the arena or increase traffic at the airport. 18,000 people aren’t going to be in the library at one time.
A new hotel downtown, attached to larger convention center, needs the arena event traffic.
Convention folks might like to spend time in our Casino. See an event at the arena. Old Town.Somethings need to be built before other things.
Joe,
The arena needs 18,000 floor seats. For the common person. Many don’t believe they will ever be in the luxury suites.
That is the magic number, 18,000 for basketball. It has to happen.
Design phase can be extended until the drawing is right. Its not too late to make that difference.
About 2 dozen people? You gotta be kidding. With that kind of support, I don’t think I want to hear anything else about an arena revote.Apathy is alive and well in Wichita. After all the whinning and complaining, the anti-arena crowd just couldn’t be bothered to get up off their butts and attend a rally.Go figure.
WRONG JOE!
“people who think it’s going to be a failure, believe that the Kansas coliseum is a failure also and everything that Wichita and the County does is a failure.”
No, I believe that quite a few things here are successful. The Zoo, for example, is a smashing success.
Your claim of 17,000 seats for basketball directly contradicts what I have recently been told by Ed Wolverton. It also contradicts what is on the County website. You might get 17,000 seats counting chairs on the floor but that definitely will not work for sports.
From Ed Wolverton, March 7:
“The seating capacity for basketball at the new Sedgwick County> arena is> 15,000. For concerts, it can hold 17,000″
Are you calling Wolverton a liar?Do you have a citation for that claim?
FACTS on the 23 million:
ADVERTISEDOperations/Maintainence Reserve: 23,611,000Parking/Infrastructure: 19,400,000Total: 43,011,000
NOWTotal reserve, parking, infrastructure: 14,610,420
A 66% cut in these areas while the overall cost has gone up.
Joe! I hope you are right. I expect you to make it successful.
Mrage: “Sale of Century II has to be done first.”
And what do you do with our successful Music Theater, Symphony, etc?
Infernal B - you are correct. Apathy is alive and well. So, I suppose we will just have to wait until Fall 2009 and see how it all works out. Like I have said, I HOPE it works.
Ben,
The future sale of Century II, said that way.
Casino group could buy the Hyatt and Library building and wait until a new convention center is built elsewhere, before remodeling interior of Century II. Might raised the roof too.
City would funds then to build that new larger convention center.
Perhaps the Wild West thing will counter balance the imagery for all of this.
Besides, I can’t wait to wear my hat, boots and spurs somewhere besides my back forty.
Mrage - you didn’t answer my question. What about Music Theater, Symphony, etc that perform in Centurt II?
“Besides, I can’t wait to wear my hat, boots and spurs somewhere besides my back forty. :)”
Or my bedroom.
I think that the people who care about Wichita and its future should stage a pro arena rally and fill up the inside and outside of Spangles! The arena is going to be built and thank God Wichita is moving into the future and trying to get people back downtown.
Although the beloved Jayhawks will not be coming here to Atlanta next weekend, the Final Four will be. Hopefully Wichita can now get in on the NCAA action- maybe even a Final Four but at least an Elite Eight or Sweet Sixteen playoff.
Kev - I wish I could be in Atlanta to cheer the Bruins on to vistory - again!
Hey Ben,
Thanks for the warm welcome and all.
I am glad to be home!
I did not see anything about an anti-arena rally, no front newspaper page, no advertisements, no nothing mention.Sounds like a conspiracy.
The problem with having the rally at Denny’s is that they don’t serve Black people.
Enough with the NCAA drivel. There is more to life than basketball. The existing plans for the arena won’t even come close to meeting what they would want for a regional site anyway.
As to tenants for the white elephant. Well the Thunder are fine, but last I checked they are barely squeezing by. Their popularity has waned significantly in the past few years. Nowhere near what it was during their championship and inaugural seasons.
Stop worrying about what Omaha and OKC have. Let’s worry about what Wichita has. Downtowns are an outdated concept. I rarely go to downtown Wichita, except when I drive through on Kellogg.
Shopping, dining, movies, are all easier and more convenient depending on which side of town you live on. Newmarket, Bradley Fair, Towne East and West, the Waterfront to name a few. Move the convention traffic to the edge of the city and raze downtown for housing or parks.
Weyreth - I don’t know what your tastes are but you might look into Music Theater or Symphony. They put on great performances at C-II and proces are reasonable. We usually make it an evening - dinner out etc. Things can and do happen downtown.
JWINK! I covered and countered all of your lies about the additional figures. Did you read it?
Or is your side going to continue to lie.
Actually Wayreth. If you check the facts and look at the attendence numbers for the Thunder, they are increasing each year. They’ve increased 30% from last season alone. The Thunder are 2nd in the league in average attendance, beating out larger markets and cities.
Right now they average about 7,000 a game. But are expected to increase to 10,000 a game by the time our great downtown arena opens up.
Getting to those numbers, you are talking about NHL size of attendance. By the way! Did anybody know that KC failed to attract any NHL team.
Ben,
The Symphony groups will play in Century II until a new convention center is built. Casino group would have wait, until the symphony and others have their new place.
Here’s news…
I just got off the phone for 20 minutes with Ron Holt.
We discussed my theory, 18,000 floor seats are necessary.
Their arena discussion in the past threw out KU basketball playing downtown.
I want to throw KU into the event consideration.
We don’t have the TV market like Oklahoma City or Kansas City.
But we will someday, as Segdwick County and neighboring counties countinue to grow.
We can’t be limited for the next 25 years with a 15,000 seat arena.
No matter what their data says.
Wichita doesn’t have a Big 12 team to be sponsor for the Big 12 tournament. We do have KSU and KU in this state and its easy to use those schools as host sponsor.
We could be moved up the list for consideration, getting First and Second Round March Madness games.
It’s a difference of theory.
County uses cost of facilities as the final determination. They have a set amount to use to build the arena. More seats costs more money.
But business getting involved can increase money the county uses and no matter the data about TV market in Wichita, we have to build an 18,000 floor seat arena for our long term benefit.
Gives us the capability to be on the same event level with Sprint Center, Ford Center, and Qwest Center in bigger TV markets.
Business can’t allow the County to construct a 15,000 arena. It limits our event possibilities for the next 25 years.
Mrage - so, what was the conclusion? 15k seats or 18k seats? Holt is in charge.
Is Holt now saying no basketball?
No Ben! I did not say that it was 17,000 for basketball. I said in general.
15,094 is the permanant seating. This doesn’t include the 11,300 square feet of space for the suite boxes. They didn’t calculate seating for those boxes, because those are more VIP louges and stand up arrangement or moveable seating, like many stadiums have. 15,000 is your general admission type permenant fixed seating.
I think are arena is perfect size for our market. Mrage wants it bigger and he has merit to his aurgument.
The question to ask the anti-arena people who think the downtown arena is a failure, then they must think the Kansas Colisuem is one also. Because the downtown arena is our replacement for the Colisuem and will be our arena for the next 40 to 50 years.
Case in point! To upgrade the Colisuem and to make it ADA compliant would cost us around $130 million. Why not invest a little more for a new one that is inline with the progressive communities in the country.
Another lie that the anti-arena spew. They say the downtown arena will only seat 13,500. Which is a flat out lie with no substainated proof or any documents proving otherwise. They underinflated the numbers for propoganda purposes and is a flat out lie.
Can you explain why the anti-arena people lie about their claim of seating Ben?
“That is your 17,000. If you want to add concert floor seating you can actually get up to 19,000 seating, if the concert stage isn’t big.”
Wolverton says 17,000 for concerts; 15,000 b-ball.
And in the context of Mrage’s concerns you made a clear implication that yout 17,000 was for b-ball. “The downtown arena needs 18,000 seats for basketball and we’re going to get one.”
As for your question - it is a non-sequiter. I do NOT lie about seating capacity - you do. If my 15,000 number is a lie it is Ed Wolverton’s lie.
Ben,
Holt said he discussed with “business” back in the day on seating.
County throwing out KU as an event consideration is a mistake.
And they understood more seats costs more dollars.
So they determined, 15,000 seats because of our TV market problems.
I’m saying business can’t allow that.
The County can be “pushed” to build an 18,000 floor seat facility.
The push has to be done soon.
Many in the County gov won’t be working for the County in 25 years. The rest of us will be “stuck” with a regionally small facility.
Holt said its likely events will pass Wichita.
We can’t pass up those event possibilities. Have to include KU basketball, by offering a choice to the teams KU is scheduled to play in KC. Some don’t want to play KU in that market. Too homey up there for the Hawks.
Difference of money between our arena and Sprint Center has to be made up. TV market here is smaller, but events in the arena shouldn’t be.
We should have “big market” events in the Sedgwick County arena.
“The County can be “pushed” to build an 18,000 floor seat facility.
The push has to be done soon.”
GO FOR IT.
“Holt said its likely events will pass Wichita.” LOWERING EXPECTATIONS?
“We can’t pass up those event possibilities.” AND HOW IS THAT GOING?
Mrage - what are you going to do is the bids are let this summer for a 15,000-seat facility?
Ben,
Until that announcement, the arena will have 18,000 floor seats, they can’t bid for future college basketball games or tournaments.
Leaving KU out hampers some future basketball event possibilities. Those tournament organizations are waiting for Wichita to step up.
And what will you do when it is let at 15k?
Ben,
Whatever has been bid for and “spent” already is fine.
More money into the project can fix anything. Can change any project.
Long as its business money and not tax money.
Ben,
Why would the County say no, to money? Business takes some responsibility the County doesn’t pay for. They should want some partners for the arena.
Mrage - I agree that they should want partners. However I cannot speak for them. My question was and is: What do you do when it holds at 15k?
Found any businesses interested yet?
Weyreth –Downtown Wichita used to be the center of everything until the developers started building the malls in different areas in Wichita.I agree with you that Downtown could have better concepts for housing and parks, after all look at some of the bigger and older cities such as Manhattan, NY on how their layout is, everything is center around a very large Central park and the property is very expensive.Maybe the city can mandate Downtown property owners to tearing down and removing useless abandon buildings to return to a natural landscape or make immediate improvements on buildings.
17,000 seating for concerts is the general set-up, because you can add seating to the floor, but you will also loose some seating because most all stages set-up for concerts take away the seating in the permanent section.
But if you include all the permanent seating, floor seating and stand up arrangments in the 24 suites, you could possibly fit 19,000 people in there. Now that’s not going to happen. Not one arena has ever filled to the absolute capacity. But it’s there.
The good thing about what we are doing is that we aren’t lieing about the seating capacity. 15,094 is about what we are going to get. We can squeeze in more, but it’s best to only advertise that we are a 15K seat arena. Unlike how some other ones do it. They actually use they fire code capacity or the full max of seats and chairs it can hold.
Again! You haven’t answered my question Ben. Why are the anti-arena people using false seating numbers? They said it was 13,500. The Sedgwick County government, Ron Holt and Ed Wolveston says otherwise. Since you are part of the anti-arena crowd. Can you provide any information that makes their claim is true or can you readily admit they are lieing?
Ben,
Its going to be a group effort. Media and Business making the County add seats.
Media has a vested interest, big markets events happen at the arena.
Business I know, should help. I can’t see why they won’t.
To me right now, there no obstruction. County can’t say no.
We can’t have an arena smaller than 18,000 floor seats. Gives us the long term chance at events.
Hey Mrage…
So are you going to start the “Enlarge the Arena” effort???
Have a revote and see what the turnout is.
Joe
Ben said it was going to be 13.5k FIXED SEATS with “movable” seats equaling a total capacity of 15k seats.
Oh and turning any one way streets into two way’s will completely hose traffic in downtown.
Anyone who has ever driven in Chicago, LA, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, etc…. knows that almost every street in those downtowns are one ways and traffic flows very smooth.
Properly timed lights with allow one ways to be the most efficient ways of getting people in and out of downtown.
Don’t let City of Wichita to change directions of the Roads in downtown…
“They said it was 13,500.” SHOW ME THAT JOE! As I understand it there are 15,000 ‘fixed’ seats - that is including both the ‘bolt-down’ (about 13,500) and the ‘pull-outs’ (about 1500). What Tony is calling ‘moveable’ above come under what I generally call ‘fixed’ in that they will be available for b-ball. 13,500 for hockey, 15,000 for b-ball. SHOW ME WHERE I HAVE CLAIMED 13,500 FOR B-BALL OR STFU!
I’M CALLING YOU ON IT JOE!
Just an FYI…
104.5 the Fox is planning on having Ron Holt on the radio again sometime in the next month or so. They dont know when yet, but if you guys call or email in to them, im sure they will get him on sooner than later…
104.5 The Fox Morning Crew, Jan and Phil.
436-1045www.1045thefox.com
Whatever the outcome of the arena, they did lie to the voters on the initial presentation.
And voters will remember that they were lied to when it comes to next election.
Thank you Republican. I wish I could somehow ‘uplink’ the pdf I have of their advertising flyer I refer to above. The one with the $23,611,000 reserve fund and parking. It makes for very interesting comparison with the current numbers; especially to one with a decent accounting and finance background. Maybe I can get them up somewhere side-by-side.
Mrage - maybe you can ask Holt about the 18,000 on the air - and about KU, Big 12, NCAA etc.
It’s not hard to find these things, Ben, if you know where to look. Just ask and you shall receive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040911004340/www.voteyea.com/financing.html
Mr. Huie,Evidently a Tony has/had the original PDF. I extracted these posts from previous blog discussions. This is how I remember the early Arena versions.
Hey Ben, Guys,
I found the original PDF file from the “Arena Committee”. It states 184 Mill for parking, Arena, Pavilions @ existing KC.
Listed in the original proposal was a list of other arenas built in the country by cities of similar size.
Only two other arenas were completed for more than 200 Mill, Both of those had a multi thousand stall parking garages built as part of the project. They were both more than 18k seats.
Each
Posted by: Tony | December 16, 2006 at 02:50 PM
was against it but now it’s to late. I suggest if your spending 250 millon on it it, it should be 18-20 thousands seats. 15 thousand? Where did they pull that rediculous number from. The arena will fail due to lack of 1)parking, the old town parking will not handle that much and not many people will walk even 3 blocks in downtown Wichita in the winter. No mater what the head cheeses think, they are so wrong!and 2) they will make the arena so cramped with no leg room or butt room it will be like Koch arena where you acually have to sit sideways in areas. People are not 120 lbs and 5′2″. If we are going to build it it should be moved over 2 blocks and some parking made and user friendly like tripple the ladies restrooms and make the concessions easy to get thru. 5 minutes is all I wait for any food or drink. I came to see the performance, not stand in line.
Posted by: Wesley B | December 20, 2006 at 10:52 AM
I thought I had saved the PDF myself as I was going to try and design what I thought it should look like.
Cannot find a peep of it and the Wichita Eagle does not keep archives available online.
anon - THANK YOU! That is the one! Check out the numbers and then compare to what we have today. Check especially reserve and parking - tell me if my post at 3:22 was truthful or if Joe! is correct. Then go to the County’s site and look at today’s numbers.
Hey guys, If you get me the PDF files or any info you guys want, i’ll upload it on my site so everyone can get it.
Mr. Huie,
Your 7:31 post is how I remember it being. I did look at the county site provided by anon and that’s how I remember it.
I suppose one could go to the Library, which I might do and pull the pre-arena vote articles.
What was presented to the voters is totally changed now.
You are not mistaken Mr. Huie, it as I remember.
Thanks Republican. I have the pdf’s which are a little easier to read. I plan to make them available to Tony so he can post them. Unfortunately the drive they are on is in my ‘other desk’ so I can’t send them to him tonight.
Maybe Joe! the Libertarian can look at the numbers. If he has some accounting background they are fairly easy to interpret. One thing they did between the two versions was to reclassify items a bit. That will be clear tomorrow when they get posted.
I have put on my Blog under the Kansas Politics Index some of the documents I read tonight.
I’ll finish entry in a few.
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/kansas_politics/index.html
If you click on the image in the post it will give you a larger readable view.
As always, comments welcome on any blog article.
Hey Joe! How’s it going on your search for 13,500? Have you found where I or anyone else claimed it? And check the County to make sure your 15,000 is ‘bolt-down’ or include ‘rool-out’.
While you are at it check the numbers on the link anon put up!
I’ve finished uploading all the screen shots of the Arena Archives that was supplied.
On a few I have supplied the entire original document as a download.
Hope that helps.
Will do a Library search tomorrow and see what I come up with, including Sedgwick County Discussion on the matter.
a new poll available
http://snappoll.com/poll/181665.php
Tony,
Stay concerned about parking downtown, its a challenge. Nothing about the situation demand’s a revote.
New County commissioners, Parks and Welshiemer are on top of that situation.
Didn’t the elections stop the conspiracy thoughts, some felt they were “lied” to.
I’m focused on increased seating in the arena, for our long term benefit.
I don’t need a public movement. No voter signatures.
I’m discussing things with friends ,who work for corporations. I grew up with some who run their companies now. Its personal talk. Then their corporate power will “push” the County.
Ben,
I’ve had my conversation with Holt. Your free to call the radio station.
Stick to this point…
The downtown arena with 15,000 seats can’t attract the Big 12 mens and woman’s basketball tournament.
He knows that.
We have KSU or KU in state to be “hosts” for that event.
Holt mentioned, with 15,000 seats it maybe on the list for March Madness First and Second Round games.
I don’t believe that. Not with neighboring states arena’s having 18,000 seats.
We are supposed to be constructing a free standing arena, WSU, KSU or KU could host games from.
KSU needs a new arena built, some in Manhattan want a larger facility. KSU vs KU could happen downtown because it means more money to KSU.
Place for them to play while constructing a new arena in Manhattan.
All three could host a four team tournament downtown over the years.
WSU has the choice to play KSU and KU at KOCH first as individual games. Good luck to them making that happen.
We can stay busy enough with college basketball while waiting for the Big 12 tournament and March Madness games to played here.
Mrage - the reason I suggested you call Holt on 104.5 is to force him onto the record. Increasing the Arena to 18K is YOUR gig, not mine. And I wish you well in your fight in that regard.
As for parking and traffic, I have a number of ideas. I am one of those who told them early on that they would need significant road improvements. They have belatedly admitted that we were right - that is one of the reasons for the 36% (so far) cost overruns.
We probably still have the traffic plan we developed (based on one-way steets like they do in big cities); that is available to Holt and the County. They have our business addresses and phone numbers; our services are readily available; for both traffic and parking possibilities.
I’m not sure how “We can stay busy enough with college basketball while waiting for the Big 12 tournament and March Madness games to played here.” What, a half-dozen games a year maximum? With WSU at Koch, KState in Manhatten and KU in Lawrence I don’t know who would play here.
Over a decade ago I raised the idea of an Arena to be located along I-135 (west side) roughly half-way between Old Town and WSU. The key to it’s success was exactly the same as in all those cities you and others suggest as comparables - a UNIVERSITY. My idea would have been a three-way City-County-WSU facility - Shocker Arena. WSU as anchor.
The development of Koch Arena at WSU ended that. Now, without WSU on the table I just think there is something big missing. Unfortunately, I think that is the kiss of death for the Arena, at least as a primarily sports facility.
Your suggestion that we sell C-II concerns me. I think that is a useful facility for Wichita; it hosts numerous events that bring thousands of people downtown. Not just a few times a year but dozens of times. That, in my view, has more economic impact than fewer larger events.
Consider: 10 events at 15,000 VS 100 events at 1500 people. Total for both is 150,000 ‘people-nights’. However, if you are thinking about opening a restaurant to take advantage of that the former is useless while the latter useful.
Music Theater, Symphony, Grand Opera, many other events routinely bring a couple of thousand people to their sell-outs. This is not the huge NCAA crowd you dream about maybe a couple of times a year but it has more impact because it is over and over.
That is why I am concerned with ideas like selling off C-II to support the Arena. These small-but-frequent events would suffer and, in my view, downtown would suffer.
And that is NOT progress.
OK, have I missed something? If the city has $150M to spend, why is an arena the best choice? How does that tangibly improve the Wichita community?
Channel 12 is talking about casinos right now.
OK, I don’t give a shit about some misguided hope of getting NCAA games or big concerts in Wichita. There are no guarantees of those things happening, and if they do I don’t see how any benefit comes close to justifying the expense of builing an arena.
What are our priorities if we are dropping 200 million on something we do not need, but we are cutting resource officers from schools due to lack of funds (just 1 example that popped into my head).
Ben,
The arena costs are only for that structure. However the parking situation and roads work out, we have the possibility to fix those problems.
We can’t retrofit seats in the arena, it has to be 18,000 floor seats when constructed.
Century II, some want a redeveloped interior. City isn’t in a hurry to do that.
Could the roof be raised, more seats in there?
I like arena’s or buildings like that now, with windows above the seats. Some natural light into those dark interiors.
Some want a much larger convention center. City needs money for that. Sell the Hyatt, Library and interior of Century II for $80 Million?
We’re getting close to voting for a full Casino. Ruffin doesn’t like “state” owned casino’s at all.
If we get one in Sedgwick County, its likely to be placed downtown.
I understand the value of Symphony groups. They need a quality convention center.
Library wants a new larger building in another location.
City needs money to build those new structures. Sell the old ones first.
Symphony events aren’t moving until a new convention center is built.
Lets worry about events in the downtown arena, long as its the proper size in seats.
We need to be ready to schedule WSU, KSU and KU hosting games there. Schedules change in the future. They can find some games to play downtown.
The County can’t leave KU out of the consideration.
Can’t create a too small arena, for our long term use. We have to attract the Big 12 mens and womans basketball tournament as it moves around. That’s a necessity event whenever we can get it.
Be equal on the list for March Madness games with neighboring states arena’s.
Holt isn’t saying anything new. Everything he said, is on the record. The 15,000 seat arena won’t get some events.
Angry,
With more events and increased value of land (taxes) County and City will have more funds for school resource officers.
Our events facilities today, don’t bring in enough tourism.
“The arena costs are only for that structure.”
That is NOT what the people voted on. $184.5 million for Arena, infrastructure, parking, operating reserve. Go check the link anon posted at 8:18.
Are you telling me they lied to us?
“City needs money to build those new structures. Sell the old ones first.Symphony events aren’t moving until a new convention center is built.”That doesn’t work. You sell the old one first and evict the Symphoney etc? Then they go under during the ‘dark years’? I guess then you just hope they can come back from the dead a decade down the road if we even build a convention center.
“Lets worry about events in the downtown arena” YOU worry about that. I will worry about the many more events that I see threatened.
” We can’t retrofit seats in the arena, it has to be 18,000 floor seats when constructed.” Again, that is YOUR job, not mine. Good luck with that. My downtown priorities clearly lie elsewhere.
Ben,
I don’t care about that $184 Million number, no one should.
Omaha couldn’t build a 15,000 seat arena before 2003, that cost less than $216 Million.
County has to gather all it can with the tax, business partners need to be involved so we get the proper sized arena. The tax won’t cover a 18,000 seat arena.
Less tax money used on expanding the arena, they will have increased funds for parking and roads.
Your splitting hairs with my words.
Sell Century II, but nothing moves out of the facility. That’s the way it will have to be until a new convention center is built.
Nothing goes dark.
Rents shouldn’t increase either. If a Casino group buys the interior, they have to wait.
Its going to take awhile, a Casino approved, then one being built downtown.
City could sell Hyatt and Libary, then start construction on a new convention center and new library building.
Much money Ruffin has suddenly has, some $1 Billion selling hotel in Las Vegas and partner with Trump, he could buy Hyatt, Broadview, tear both down and build two hotels that connect over Douglas in some way.
If its possible for him to buy a casino license that he likes.
Downtown hotels will be different. The landscape could change.
I don’t know what a $200 Million dollar destination casino will look like. Space that kind of casino will need.
We should get better hotels. Both Hyatt and Broadview are in that Casino Development zone. By the river, best locations.
mrage,The flaw to your reasoning about the arena driving increased tax revenues is that the numbers just don’t stack up.
If the cost of the arena is $250M and we assume a property tax rate of 30%, it will take $833M of additional tax revenues to cover just the initial cost of the arena. In 2005, the total Sedgwick county property tax revenues were $123.6MCommercial propery is assessed at 25% of appraised value. So, if the value of a property near the arena doubles the property tax value goes up by 50% (200% x 25%).
For comparison, the entire budget of Sedgick County for 2007 was $367M, only $12.2M of which was for culture and recreation, and $77M for health and welfare.
“I don’t care about that $184 Million number, no one should” NO NE SHOULD CARE?! THAT IS WHAT WAS VOTED ON! WHY DID WE BOTHER WITH A VOTE?
“County has to gather all it can with the tax, business partners need to be involved so we get the proper sized arena. The tax won’t cover a 18,000 seat arena.” GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
“Much money Ruffin has suddenly has, some $1 Billion selling hotel in Las Vegas and partner with Trump, he could buy Hyatt, Broadview, tear both down and build two hotels that connect over Douglas in some way.” TELL HIM THAT.
“Less tax money used on expanding the arena, they will have increased funds for parking and roads.” HOW IS 216 MILLION (OMAHA) LESS THAN 184 MILLION?
“Sell Century II, but nothing moves out of the facility. That’s the way it will have to be until a new convention center is built.” WHO WILL BUY IT IF THEY CAN’T DO ANYTHING WITH IT?
Good luck with all that. I’m taking it as the evidence presents itself - Holt et.al. are determined to build their 15,000 seat facility no matter what. Joe! will be happy. Then what?
brian,
Great information but the sales tax isn’t from the general funds. What’s the need for making that up?
The fear some have, is County spending more than the tax collects and tapping general funds. Less money for other services could happen.
The County needs business partners so cost of the arena is contained, only the tax funds raised they will use.
Business has to be finacially responsible for completition of the arena we really need.
The City has property to sell, The Hyatt and Library building, some want them to get rid of the Ice Rink. That’s how they could gain more funds quickly.
Mrage,The concern is that the money could be better, more wisely spend on things other than an arena.
You implied that the arena would have a positive net effect on the Wichita economy.”With more events and increased value of land (taxes) County and City will have more funds for school resource officers.Our events facilities today, don’t bring in enough tourism.”That is simply not true.
Ben,
We voted on the 30 month sales tax and new location of the arena, downtown.
Ruffin has voiced interest, to get a casino in Kansas. The dog track slots are no longer supported on his website. Where he spends his Billions, some of it here, hopefully. If he can sell a hotel in Las Vegas, we need him as hotel/casino owner in Wichita.
Casino has so much money, they could purchase Century II and do nothing with it immediately.
Casino becomes new landlord instead of the City. Hopefully by sales contract, casino can’t raise Century II rental rates.
Those long term dates for events Symphony groups finally got mean something.
brian,
We need the event facilities that are competitive. We need to radically improve tourism to this county and city.
How those governments move money around in their budgets, that depends on elected officials.
We’re not done improving event facilities. I want a new stadium for WSU football, grass field and dirt show capability.
I feel when 30,000 people and more move around as a group, that changes the money environment. In groups a lot over the year at many events.
Wichita has lacked group movements like other communities our size. They have larger and better event facilities.
College football is costly but the gathering of people is an incredible value to communities.
“Anyone who has ever driven in Chicago, LA, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, etc…. knows that almost every street in those downtowns are one ways and traffic flows very smooth.”
You have to be kidding me. In Atlanta during the day traffic doesn’t flow on surface streets at ALL. It is gridlocked from morning to evening in downtown, midtown and Buckhead. It is so bad that people do not even dare come out and try to drive to lunch for fear they cannot make it back in an hour. Walking is faster.
a new poll available
http://snappoll.com/poll/181665.php
Mrage - we voted for a sales tax not to exceed 184.5 million and a budget that would include parking, infrastructure, reserve funds. GO AND LOOK AT THE FLYER AND THE INFORMATION ANON LINKED LAST NIGHT!
“Business has to be finacially responsible for completition of the arena we really need.” GO TELL THEM THAT!
“Casino has so much money, they could purchase Century II and do nothing with it immediately.Casino becomes new landlord instead of the City. Hopefully by sales contract, casino can’t raise Century II rental rates.” KEEP ON HOPING!
City weighs spending $108 million near arena:http://kansas.com/196/story/29518.html
Ok, lets see here… Now we are spending $310 million for the arena and supporting facilities and that STILL DOESNT INLCUDE PARKING!
A small turnout is not indicative of anything more than people being busy.
If they already signed the petition, many likely thought they had already taken a stand.
It is the petition that matters.It is the number of names that matters.
If the pro-arena groupies were not aware that the re-voters were gaining support - they would not have set up a website for their own petition.
The Fat Lady isn’t even close to singing.
I think that people forget how close that arena vote was…
Meanwhile, 40 years from now when the final estimate is at 1 billion dollars we will start building…
I voted against the arena and I lost. Enough. The re-vote people sound like the whiners from the 2000 election. Get over it. I also have said many times, the tax, that is set to expire, will not. And the Eagle will lead the charge to keep it. Hear me now, believe me later.
Want some cheese with that wine??
I could have attended if I’d have known about it. I must have overlooked the notification in the newspaper.
JayW
We posted it here on the blog and the Eagle and various news stations said something about it.
The most common reason people give is to increase tourism. What real economic value is any increase in tourism driven by the arena going to have on the Wichita economy?
How many tourists are going to come here because of the arena? How much will they spend, and how much of that can be shown to affect the coffers of the city and county?
I don’t know, but I am quite certain the affect will not be worth $250 Million. The underlying message behind a desire to increase tourism is that an increase in tourism will positively affect our community.
However, I challenge arena supporters to explain how the arena will have more impact on the community than spending the money the arena will cost on other things in the community.
brian
We can’t be saddled with a 15,000 seat arena because of event’s WE HAVE NEVER HAD, won’t happen here.
How to gauge tourists money when we don’t have some tourist events.
I simply want KU basketball fans and haters of KU basketball fans to come together in Wichita on occasion, possibly once every season.
To watch KU play KSU. KSU would want to play in an 18,000 floor seats arena because, they have smaller facility in Manhattan. KSU could easily request to play KU in Wichita. They would make more money.
Some day they will replace that arena in Manhattan, so KSU will need a place to play for a full season.
I want KU to create a four team tournament, downtown on occasion. To reward in-staters down this way, they love and care for. KU Medical School is here. Plenty of Jawhawks in the County.
Teams from around the Country never visited Wichita before. Never had any reason to. North Carolina in Wichita as example.
Roy Williams had spite for WSU but he hates Wichita? I don’t think so. NC probably doesn’t want to play KU in the KC market at the Sprint Center. We give teams KU is playing a “neutral court”.
Involve the Big 12 universities so the Big 12 Conference tournament could happen in Wichita, occasionally. The Big 12 isn’t scheduling that event long term anywhere. So it could be a very short window of years, the Big 12 tournament returns after we get it for the first time.
That’s a week long event could happen downtown.
We have to qualify for that tournament with an 18,000 floor seats arena.
We higher on the list consideration for First and Second Round March Madness games. Low on the list with a 15,000 seat arena and maybe only when WSU makes the March tournament.
To me, the County is limiting our choices for the very long term.
They claim, small TV market Wichita should have the smallest regional arena. Ron Holt has the data to prove that.
If our arena is creating four team tournaments, hosted by WSU, KSU or KU every season, airlines start to notice that continual flight traffic.
More flight traffic, somehow we have to engage Southwest Airlines to fly from here.
It may not happen until we have a college football team. But arena events bringing in people all the time could get their attention.
Right now, Southwest pays us no mind.
Only with a 18,000 floor seat arena is it capable to affect the airport. KU can deny playing in a 15,000 seat arena. They prefer 18,000 seat arenas like the Sprint Center. We may never see KU play WSU at Koch Arena.
All the other events, concerts with more seats. A weekend of concerts, or multiple bands is better than one band.
All the high schools will have the facility for state tournaments, whatever the sport.
When Wichita is on national TV, that means more advertising opportunity for this area. With KU or KSU and WSU on national TV, its valuable.
When are we on national TV right now?
We have the chance to be on national TV with an 18,000 floor seats arena. Properly engage our state universities to play basketball games downtown, much as they can.
If we have the proper sized arena its more possible to generate the events that could monetarily meaningful for the community.
Mrage - the person you need to convince about your 18,000 seats is Joe! Williams. Right now you seem to be the only voice saying ‘build it larger.’ Joe! and others in the pro-Arena crowd are maintaining “we will build it the way we want to” and they steadfastly say it will be wonderful.
If this thing gets built at 15,000 there will never be another one. As you have noted, you cannot feasibly enlarge it. And, if it fails, things will get ugly as you have predicted.
So, if you really believe 18,000 is the magic number you need to get some allies and get it done.
“We can’t be saddled with a 15,000 seat arena because of event’s WE HAVE NEVER HAD, won’t happen here.” Well, it is looking more and more like we WILL be saddled with a 15,000 seat arena.
I suggest you get all those corporate types you know to become active in supporting your vision. Contracts let this summer/fall.
Ben,
Joe could do great things in his way for the downtown arena. He has been defending the facility to exist.
The contacts or people he has talked with before in our govs, now its time to adamantly suggest 18,000 floor seats.
The arena has to act Big Market, in this small market Ron Holt claims we are in. Will be stuck with for all time.
It’s not reasonable to me, seeing events at other arena’s with 18,000 seats, those won’t happen here.
The County is choosing to leave some events out. They are limited by cost right now, trying to afford the 15,000 arena with the sales tax.
Yes, a corporate push for more seats has to happen, I’ll try to make it so, everyday from now in conversations.
Variety of people, not just one or two corporates can make sure we achieve the properly sized arena.
No matter more seats are wanted, Ron Holt will say data doesn’t prove the need. That’s very short sighted to me.
Keeping us small market with the smallest regional arena. With no TV coverage.
We should get celebrated stories by sports reporters. They are here, in Wichita at the Sedgwick County arena (sponsored by some corporation) and its exciting, very loud crowd.
College basketball has to be the most desired event in the downtown arena. We should try to get many games as possible and those are on national TV.
Ron Holt and the County threw KU out as an event consideration. They accept not qualifying for the Big 12 tournament.
I don’t accept it and no one should. We are in Big 12 conference area and should want those teams in Wichita.
That’s easy for Joe to understand. We need 18,000 floor seats.
Well, it is up to you to make it happen. It is NOT up to me. Talk to your corporates. Get them involved. SHOW ME THE MONEY!
KU does not want to come to Wichita. They have no reason to come to Wichita. Even if we had a 30k seat arena, they would not come here.
Wayreth,
Wrong. The state of Kansas has never had arena like Kemper Arena was. A free standing NCAA tournament facility that was used for a long time.
It’s here in Wichita, largest city in the state, acting like it, we must create a free standing arena so all the universities can schedule games at the facility.
KU has issues with WSU and its financial. Small Koch arena. Some of its personal from the past issues between the Universities. KU can’t fathom losing to WSU ever again. KU coaching job could be on the line if that’s a loss.
Whats the difference between Bradley or any mid major beating KU. During the regular season its only one game.
KU doesn’t want to happen again, first round.
With an 18,000 seat arena, financial package similar to what The Sprint Center offers, KU would play in Wichita.
There is nothing reasonable for KU to deny the oppurtunity. Playing in Wichita, they don’t have to risk playing WSU.
Some teams don’t want to play KU in the KC market. That’s real. Many complained back in the day, playing KU at Kemper. Its the same organization at the Sprint Center.
Let me get this straight.
You are saying that with a new arena maybe Wichita could have the great NCAA events and awesome concerts that we all go to Omaha, Tulsa and Little Rock to see.
With a new arena we could be the great tourist mecca that other midwestern cities of 500,000 people and an arena are.
An arena would help us draw one KU game per year to Wichita, maybe one other local favorite game too. That would make Wichita so much better that spending a quarter billion dollars is the only reasonable thing to do.
Did I miss anything, or does this pretty much sum up the reasoning for building a new arena in Wichita?
KU isn’t going to give up a home game to play in Wichita. Why? Their season ticket holders won’t stand for it.
As for organizing a 4 team weekend tournament — is there a chance less than zero? Who’s going to give up home games for less of a payout than they’d get at home? Think KU is going to split the gate 4 ways? Dream on.
The idea is to keep the arena hopping with whatever they can book there — as long as the revenues exceed the costs.
A couple big basketball events aren’t enough to float the arena boat, so I’d suggest concentrating on building a better business model than trying to get KU in the building.
A KU vs. OSU/OU or Oral Roberts might be a draw and convenient for the teams involved. They will all be on a “foreign” court and within driving distance home to cut costs down.
brian: You are partially right … we might get a basketball game even if its a high school game. But doubtful on the concerts. The arena is not designed for good acoustics unless the concert is an all-out explosion of noise.
Also I’m not sure if the arena will have the necessary large entrance way on one end to allow 10 eighteen wheelers plus two RV’s to park beginning the day before the concert. These large vehicles bring the electronic musical equipment plus the musicians in the RV’s.
The “star” usually arrives by limosine from the airport or hotel at the last minute and is back on the plane flying to California with the large bag full of ticket proceeds before the last musical notes are played.
Normally, the arena will get the money for hamburgers and soft drinks.
Of course, the taxpayers who paid the $300.000.000.14 for the white elephant arena receive nothing.
A quality musical concert or presentation probably wouldn’t play in the new arena because of poor acoustics and adjacent train noise.
One blogger on this WE Blog knows a lot about the technical requirements. Wonder if he is still watching this blog and would comment.
Mrage, are you a WSU graduate, by chance?
GSheridan: You are correct several posts above when you say the purpose of the RALLY Sunday afternoon was to gather the petitions that have been signed so far. My petition had some 50 valid signatures and I am still collecting more. A lot of other petitions were handed to James Barfield who is coordinating this. If you want to sign a petition or turn one in — go to channel 5 TV on east Douglas across from East High School.
Just the same, we did have an enthusiastic crowd in spite of the super windy weather with a few sprinkles.
Again we are working out of our own billfolds as opposed to the pro-arena people who have millions of tax dollars available for their expenses. I sure would like to see an up to date audit … does anyone know where I can pick one up?
brian,
The arena you voted for or against, will do less than you suggested if it has 15,000 seats. No interest in getting KU. No qualifying for the Big 12 tournament. Would any Big 12 basketball ever play downtown, not likely.
KSU does have a situation in future years. Need to replace their campus arena in Manhattan. KSU mens and women’s basketball will need an arena to play in for a full season.
They could start that project, as our arena is opened. If KSU wants to play downtown, road trip all the time, probably could.
15,000 seats with no national TV exposure. That is reality you should fear and wonder why the arena is being built.
I care less about other communties. How can Wichita and Sedgwick County improve ourselves and the event facilities we have.
We needed to replace the Coliseum.We must make it competitive.
If you like other communities, move there.
Trying to build a competitive mecca, nothing extremely glorious. It’s an arena. A barn.
Stadiums are more beautiful to construct.
—-
TR,
When KU plays in the Sprint Center its not a home game. Its a off campus game. KU could play off campus games in Wichita.
If KU could schedule a four team tournament at the Sprint Center, so could our arena with 18,000 seats. They can still schedule four team tournaments in Lawrence whenever they want to.
Whatever money KU gets from the Sprint Center, the Sedgwick County arena should match the financial package. Negotiate with the TV networks for coverage.
Our arena should be for all the Universities. WSU, KSU and KU to host games from.
Concerts, whatever else the arena can do for events. Basketball is only a few months a year.
I believe the scheduling can work.
With 18,000 seats, March Madness possibity, on that list for First and Second round games and the Big 12 tournament as it moves around.
The only arena in this state that could hold those events.
Who knows, the Valley might want to try moving their tournament around. We must have that kind of competitive arena, with 18,000 seats.—–
Rebublican,
What’s the problem driving to Wichita? Too costly for who?
If Lawrence or KC fans don’t want to come down, plenty in the County here will take those seats. KU will sell out every time in Wichita.
WSU could host games possibly sell out. KSU could too. More likely if they create four team tournaments.
Would WSU vs KSU or KU sell out the arena. Who can make the Big 12 schools play WSU. They must decide to do it themselves.
No one else builds arena’s then wonders who has to drive far. That’s meaningless. Its the price of gas, why some don’t road trip.
In this four state area, driving the University bus is not a burden.
—-Anon,
I spent 4 semesters at WSU in the 80’s, went to KSU for 6 semesters, then moved out of state for awhile went to college. I’m not a graduate of WSU. I was born here.
Mrage,When was the last time you went to Omaha, Little Rock, or Tulsa (or anywhere) for a game or other event? What was it?
a new poll available
http://snappoll.com/poll/181665.php
“The arena you voted for or against, will do less than you suggested if it has 15,000 seats. No interest in getting KU. No qualifying for the Big 12 tournament. Would any Big 12 basketball ever play downtown, not likely.”
ALL THE MORE REASON TO REVOTE!
brian,
It’s been a couple years I’ve traveled out of state for an event. Most of my travel is family related, visiting folks.
I don’t hang out in Oklahoma, drive right through heading to Texas
In the past, some sporting events. At the Chiefs game. Not to cheer for them. St. Louis baseball, again, not to cheer for the Cards. Their old stadium. I haven’t been to the new one.
I’ve seen college football at KSU and KU over the years.
Why?
Here in Wichita and Kansas, its flat and not that vibrant backdrop of trees. We lack what other states have. But to me this home.
We have terrible event facilities in comparison to other communities.
—-
Ben,
No reason for a re-vote. Just need to improve the arena project, so it worthwhile for our long term community benefit.
Nothing has been constructed, so we’re not “stuck” with a failed arena yet.
Mrage - the vote that was held was for an Arena that would cost $123.4 million (land, clearing, construction, etc) as a part of a total 184.5 million project. Doubling that construction cost would seem to go way against what was voted. Unless, of course, you have private money to bring to the table.
Your response to brian seems to confirm that people don’t travel as tourists to visit arenas very much. Given that, just why would this one be unique?
Ben,
Private money has to be in the arena project. I have a call into Bob Hanson right now, get his p.o.v why the Wichita sports group agrees with 15,000 seats.
Strictly with basketball, events from the Big 12 would greatly help our arena. That should be its function. A free standing arena, where WSU, KSU and KU could host basketball games from, whenever its possible.
The four team tournaments. In the mix to get the Big 12 basketball tournament. March Madness games, first and second round.
College basketball, fans of those teams coming to Wichita. WSU might get a better variety to play off campus, downtown, because its a larger payout. Koch Arena is small with 10,000 seats. On cable more often. ESPN.
We will have “made it” once KU is playing some team and its on national TV from downtown. ABC or CBS.
Some people travel for concerts. I haven’t traveled to a concert in a long time.
I expect more in-state people to visit the arena, than out of state folks. But some will road trip from out of state to Wichita for tournaments.
An 18,000 seat arena has the better chance attracting events and fans. Better TV coverage.
Quicker a corporation will name the arena if it has 18,000 seats.
Or it could be The Sedgwick County arena, sponsored by ( whatever company). That way, future years as corporate changes happen, and naming rights are different, we still have the same basic arena name.
I don’t like the multiple corporate names over the years, some sports facilities have.
“Private money has to be in the arena project. I have a call into Bob Hanson right now, get his p.o.v why the Wichita sports group agrees with 15,000 seats.” GO FOR IT. So far I haven’t seen anything. Let me know what Hanson says - it should be amusing.
“Some people travel for concerts. I haven’t traveled to a concert in a long time.” Apparently not very many. You have acknowledged that at least for you that doesn’t happen.
I agree that while we are doing this, we need to build it for the future, and that means 18,000.”Aircapital Arena” is a perfect name.
“”Aircapital Arena” is a perfect name.”
If a corporation wants to give millions for naming rights, “Preparation H Arena” will work fine.
The advertising for Wichita derived from a name tied to Wichita would be worth millions many times over.
“Preparation H Arena”
OUCH!
How ’bout ‘Tucks’ or ‘Massengill’
Near 5:00, have to wait for Bob Hanson’s call tomorrow. Who knows, I’ve talked to him before, but it was years ago. Before the arena vote.
I’ll query every Board of Directors on the Wichitasports list.
That organization has to tell me, I’m wrong.
The choice is small market, no KU, no Big 12 tournament or act big market, include KU, Big 12 tournament, better TV coverage.
WSU and KSU hosting games from the downtown arena, more gate receipts for them. Plus playing against higher profile teams.
Every team in the country could play on 18,000 seat “neutral” court.
I won’t travel to see John Mayer, today’s music artist. Some will.
A whole generation on younger people do travel for concerts.
Still should have more concerts in Cessna Stadium.
Some do travel for concerts today. Enough to fill the downtown arena, with 18,000 seats.
Let us know how it goes with hanson.
Mrage, I’m surprised to learn that someone who attended college for several years is so illiterate.
Tell me, as you as good in mathematics as you are with grammar and logic?
n,
You are a freaking idiot, got those rants for me, send them directly if your brave enough.
Your the one with a fake handle jackass.
I suggest you never post remarks to me ever again.
Mrage - you seem a bit thin-skinned.
Ben,
I can take discussion from real people. Your real. Too bad you weren’t there at the Meetup, you wouldn’t determine I’m sensitive at all.
Didn’t you leave WE blog for awhile, who is thin skinned on stuff happening here.
That ass isn’t real is the problem. Not the first time, IT has posted those kind of rants to me.
ABC news is just about to share a story why “anonymous” postings are happening. I’m waiting for commercials…
That jerk was called was “no one” before. No one that matters is the truth.
ABC says, the new internet smear tactics…
Cyber smearing…online shaming. What’s the psychology of anonymous posters..
Fake people! Making up comments without being able to back them up.
Could be mrage. The name-calling got tiring. So, i took some time off; only back part-time now.
Good luck with Hanson; I don’t think you will get anywhere with him. My experience with him has not been positive. He should be getting corporate sponsors for his endeavors instead of relying so much on taxpayers. Note his problems with his “Hall of Fame”
Mrage, I think you meant to write this:
You’re the one with a fake handle, jackass.
Back to school!
You see, Mrage, why I gently tease you is that you write about all the “inside” information you have, and you have all these recommendations and advice for everyone, but you haven’t even absorbed a grammar school education.
Can you understand how that is annoying?
Can you see how people are prone to discount your opinions, given that you either don’t know, or don’t care, how to use words like “there” and “their,” or “your” and “you’re” correctly?
Do you understand how it embarrasses our fine town to have illiterates like you pose as its leaders?