Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer disagrees with those — such as Newsweek’s Fareed Zakaria — who say that America gave Iraqis a civil war.
He wrote: “We gave them a civil war? Why? Because we failed to prevent it? Do the police in America have on their hands the blood of the 16,000 murders they failed to prevent last year?”
After recounting some of the sacrifices of American soldiers and other efforts to prevent civil strife and seek reconciliation, he concluded:
“We have made a lot of mistakes in Iraq. But when Arabs kill Arabs and Shiites kill Shiites and Sunnis kill all in a spasm of violence that is blind and furious and has roots in hatreds born long before America was even a republic, to place the blame on the one player, the one country, the one military that has done more than any other to try to separate the combatants and bring conciliation is simply perverse.
“It infantilizes Arabs. It demonizes Americans. It willfully overlooks the plainest of facts: Iraq is their country. We midwifed their freedom. They chose civil war.”
What do you bloggers think?
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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If you haven’t read this, do.
Text of Warner Resolution: Expressing the sense of Congress on Iraq. (Introduced in Senate)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.CON.RES.7:
and the accompanying article,Republicans block Senate debate on Iraqhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070205/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq
The hatred between the different sects run deep and long, the problem as stated by many experts in the middle East is that the U.S. did not truly study nor learned about the aspects of the people of Iraq and how it was the iron hand of Saddam that kept the peace between them. We did not take into account what would happen once that iron hand was felled. No plan of constancy was made for the sudden lost of control of that hatred. It was assumed that the people of Iraq would be united in the new found freedom, instead they have used that freedom to continue the hatred with the U.S. in the middle.
Factoring in the internal fueling of the hatred by outside forces in an attempt undermine the efforts of the U.S. to stabilize Iraq. It is a struggle to make up the ground that has been lost, it does not help when as told to me by someone that recently return from there. That Iraq is a free for all when it comes to crime, such as when ever new power lines are ran. Before the power can be sent through them, the lines are being cut down, burnt to get the insulation off and the copper sold for scrap. As to profits from the sell of oil, Iraq is unusual in the region in that most oil countries have it set up where the people get a share of the profits. In Iraq it is still a chosen few that are reaping any profits and the people have to depend on jobs and hand outs from the government. This farther fuels the hatred when no jobs came forth and those that did are subject to being targets for the insurgency, Al-Qaeda and the like to farther undermine the process.
Should the U.S. be blamed for all this? No except for its part in failing to see the obvious effect of sudden freedom of the people in a country that had a long standing hatred among the people there. Like any student that is failing, we needed to do the home work.
Why the need to spend so much time and effort and expense sucking-up to the Jews and their Shitty-Little-trouble-making Country?
It is certainly of no benefit to us.
Ever since the Jews got their asses beat-up and kicked out of Lebanon, they’re using a new tactic of setting one faction against the other { Hamas against Fatah, Simona against Hezbollah, Sunni against Shiite, internal strife in Iran.
The Jews set-off a 2 ton bomb in the marketplace in Iraq and blame it on the other-side.
They sit around in their Shitty little country dreaming-up ways to make trouble.
If they spent as much time dreaming-up ways to make peace, then the world wouldn’t hate their guts so much.
writerdog – I think you’re right, and it’s an uncomfortable to read because it leaves us with the conclusion that treating specific humans with kindness – doesn’t necessarily net the response it would from the majority of Westerners.
In the current politically-correct world of “diversity is cool” and “we’re all equal” the Iraq situation just doesn’t mesh with our way of thinking. The former USSR found that out in Afghanistan.
It’s going to be tough to quell the insurgency – because the logical factor – which is missing – is sheer manpower. And no one wants to commit more troops. And if we do – we risk the same outcome when we later reduce them.
To be able to ‘fix’ Iraq, we need to ask ourselves what we would do if a similar situation arose here in the States? How could we put it down? The answer, of course, would be Martial Law, but that would take the massive military manpower that we can’t possibly commit in Iraq.
This is a very good lesson for us – since the Middle East has been exporting its terrorism on a growing scale for the last thirty years. They have informed us in no uncertain terms that they are coming – and 9-11 was just a sample.
What I am afraid it will eventually come down to – and this is sad – is greater firepower, but not greater manpower.
Our initial invasion of Iraq was successful because we used some pretty big-gun tactics. The insurgency arose out of our “peacekeeping” efforts.
I went to school with Middle Easterners, and while they were nice kids, most had the ingrained attitude that they were better, especially the Iranians. This isn’t a new development, but it IS one that we need to pay attention to, and make provisions for, by severely restricting immigration from those areas, and eliminating student VISA’s.
Ed – maybe because they are the only reliable allies we have in that cesspool. Ever think of that?
Yeah, the Iraqis are just stupid.
I mean why have a Civil War over differences?
(record scratch sound)
618,000 Americans died during the North versus South Civil War.
A house divided cannot stand!
WE ARE TO BLAME FOR THE IRAQ CIVIL WAR!!
Isreal is not our ally, they take and never give. And as for “that cesspoll”, we are a cesspool to them.
“Our initial invasion of Iraq wassuccessful because we used some pretty big-gun tactics.”
Bull. We, who have the most powerful military, went up against a military that didn’t have a chance against us. It was like using a brick to kill a fly.
“I went to school with Middle Easterners, most had the ingrained attitude that they were better, especially the Iranians”
I think that is called pride in oneself. Texans have an ingrained attitude that they are better. I can’t fault them for feeling that way.
Let’s hear the arguments on how Iraqis are better off without a brutal dictator.
2.5% of their country dead as a result of the war. By comparison – it would be analogous to all men, women and children in the state of Virginia (the U.S. 12th most populuous state) in this country being killed.
Heck of a Job, Bushie!
The US lost three percent of their population in their own Civil War. What’s your point Steven Davis?
Logic by percentage or do you want to use one of those unbiased Polls?
My point was that the average Iraqi was better off under a “brutal” dictator – sans a civil war. Too difficult for you to comprehend?
Not at all difficult to understand.
Perfectly logical if you are a Sunni Muslim. However, if you are a Shiite, Kurd or Christian then your evaluation may not be so popular.
Would you care to repeat your statement in front of the Iraqi Assembly. I’m sure the Iraqi people would like to hear first hand your opinion of how you long for Hussein to be their dictator again.
“Exodus from Iraq creates friction in Middle East”
Approximately 1.8 million Iraqis have left their country.
Heck of a job Shrub.
“My point was that the average Iraqi was better off under a “brutal” dictator…”
Perfect! The more you people talk, the more you allow us to see the real democrat party.When the going gets tough, the dems get to going.
“2.5% of their country (Iraq) dead as a result of the war.
No way, not even close. UN estimates are at 126,000 for the entire war. The 650,000 is an extrapolation. BTW Steve do you even know the population of Baghdad or Iraq? What is your estimation of the death in Iraq. How many by IED’s? You know that we did not do that, don’t you? What bad people do is not our fault, bad people will do bad things anyway.
“…Iraqi people would like to hear first hand your opinion of how you long for Hussein to be their dictator again.”
I think many of them would agree. Which says a lot for the success of your and fleet’s war. I am sure the Iranians would love to have you “free” them next…
“it would be analogous to all men, women and children in the state of Virginia (the U.S. 12th most populuous state) in this country being killed.”
According to Wiki the population of Iraq is 28,807,000.
According to Wiki VIrginia population is 7,567,465.
IF what you were saying is true, (Which it is not) that would be 25%. There is no way 7 million people have been killed in Iraq.
Stay oiff the anti-war left winger blogs. They usually state this misinformation, ie LIE!!
No doubt Steven Davis is a member of the Ba’ath Party as only someone from that party would make such a statement.
My war? I’m pretty sure that U.S. is on the uniforms of those who are participating in it.
You really think enemies care if you are Democratic or Republican party? Black or White? East Coast, West Coast or in the Middle of the US?
The only thing enemies care about is that you are part of the great Satin and the evil US. Think about that closely before you align yourself with the thinking of a party like Ba’ath.
“The only thing enemies care about is that you are part of the great Satin and the evil US. Think about that closely before you align yourself with the thinking of a party like Ba’ath”
Spare us from the great satan speech.Do you really think the average Iraqi gives a rats ass about the USA. Same for muslims and Islam.I want to see proof evidence of an organized threat at a state level.
“No way, not even close.”
Please read the methodology section of this report. When you have understood it and are able to refute it, please come back. The lead author is an expert in this type of public health sampling. That is one reason why Johns Hopkins pays him money, instead of you.
http://freerangethought.com/Docs/Lancet2.pdf
Right wingers are sore losers.Read it right here.They don’t bring shit to the discussion except stew-pud accusations like the one above.Mr. Davis is a fine person and damned fine American.
Who’s to blame is a loaded question.RED MEAT, being thrown to the angry righties here.The causes go back, way back.Even all the way back to why Islam was split into different factions.Their civil unrest already existed when the west made it worse after WW2. And the constant meddling by western govts, clear up to the point where the USA supported Saddam during the time he was gassing Kurds.
Eier,
Calling me a ba’ath party member. Love your approach to this argument. Try defending this war, instead. Waiting patiently…
Steven Davis,
You align your thinking in lockstep with the Ba’ath party. You should provide propaganda services for them as you do it so perfectly according to Ba’ath ideology.
Interesting discussion. Reminds me of something I read about Africa, don’t know who it was. They pointed out that the only African nations that are not cesspools of tribal warfare and brutal dictators are the ones that the Brits collonized for 70 years or more. It apparently took 2 generations of people raised under a Western influence to overcome thousands of years of tribal rivalry. I don’t think were going to be in Iraq that long.
Eier please post the doctrine of the Baa’th Party. I want to see if my thinking is aligned with it.
Krauthammer’s analogy “Do the police in America have on their hands the blood of the 16,000 murders they failed to prevent last year?” is bogus. A better question might be “If we fired all the police and chaos reigns do we blame that on the decision to fire all the police?” That is what Bush did. He eliminated all vestiges of any security apparatus and failed to provide for any sort of replacement. Predictably, chaos ensued and we now have civil war.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHES!
Heckler – good point. Unlike other colonial powers who crushed local governing systems and fostered internicins fighting the British sought to create local rule under their control. So, when they left there was a local infrastructure. The other colonial powers left behind a vacuum.
Here’s a partial extract of the Ba’ath party Doctrine. This fits the definition of the Socialistic “Nanny State” that the Democratic Party wants to force on everyone.
“The people everywhere are unable to understand any idea truly and quickly. That is why they look to living individuals in whom the idea is vested. It is to these individuals and only to the extent of their moral worth and enthusiasm, that one looks to measure the value of the exposed idea.”
The Ba’ath Party emphasizes socialism and secular belief. This describes the Democratic Party as well.
No Steve isn’t providing propaganda veep is.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003538598
Gee Eier – that sounds like “I will tell what you need to know and what to think.” – Rush Limbaugh.
Great quote -
“Dick Cheney: The New ‘Baghdad Bob’?Is the former Iraqi propaganda minister inhabiting the soul of our vice president? It sure seemed this way during Cheney’s highly delusional interview with Wolf Blitzer this week.
By Greg Mitchell
(January 31, 2007) — Is it just me, or is Vice President Cheney, in his latest statements, starting once again to sound like another balding, rose-colored-glasses wearing war spokesman, Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf, better known as “Baghdad Bob”?
For that matter, has anyone seen “Bob” lately? Perhaps, as a trained propagandist, he is in the bunker with Dick, writing his material.”
“Ed – maybe because they are the only reliable allies we have in that cesspool. Ever think of that?”
The big lie.
The Jews are not a reliable ally, they are the enemy. Iraq is their war, not ours, and you are reciting the “pitch,” the “spin” to justify us being sucked into this awful carnage of not only one million Iraqis bur 3000+US American soldiers dead with another 30,000 with their arms and legs blown-off.
Why? To satisfy that Shitty-Little group of self-ordained degenerates?
Rush Limbaugh aligns himself to ideology of radio poll ratings, I don’t.
You are correct, Heckler. I’ve read, cannot remember where, that our nation building efforts in the Kosovo were relatively more successful because we first stabilized & secured the country before having elections. The author’s thesis was that early elections in Iraq actually set the stage for the current tribal violence.
Thanks for the link on Baghdad Bob quotes. My favorite:
“Rumsfeld, he needs to be hit on the head.”
Cheney as Baghdad Bob; that is quite the knee slapper.
Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (Baghdad Bob)”I am not talking about the American people and the British people,” he said. “I am talking about those mercenaries. … They have started throwing those pencils, but they are not pencils, they are booby traps to kill the children.”
Baghdad Bob has transformed into Washington Post Military analyst William Arkin who called US Military Troops mercenaries.
When the Libs got nothin’, they bring out Rush and the whole “mind numbed robot” thing.
But look at the links they provide.freerangethought.com?Where do you people find this crap?
You have to actually go out and find it. Pitiful
Eier . . . good name.
Except you spelled it wrong.
Should be “Err.”
“I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire. Once we got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power? What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular along the lines of the Ba’ath Party? Would it be fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no sense at all.”—Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney, April 7, 1991
Cheney also that overthrowing Saddam was “not worth a single American life.”
capnsedition-Pulling out a quote from 16 years ago means nothing. A few things have changed since then.But, when that’s all you have, that’s all you have.
It’s called research woodhole.Sumpin you and the wingernuts should try.You know, books, facts, articles, etc.Or is it true that all your news comes from BillO and Limpballs?
fleettwood, You stupid bird-brained bastard. How could you not kill 1 million Iraqis after dropping tons of bombs on them every single day for four years?
Plus shooting millions of rounds of ammunition?
Idiots like you and those G-D Jews are the reason we’re in this mess.
I suppose having a cartoon character nick such as “CapnAmerica” increases your credibility eh?
If you are going to quote Slate, you should really try to do it accurately.From Slate Item #2072609
“If you’re going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein, you have to go to Baghdad. Once you’ve got Baghdad, it’s not clear what you do with it. It’s not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that’s currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it’s set up by the United States military when it’s there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?”
Looks like you anti-war people have a friend in the anti-jew community. Congrats!
Those are good questions to ask eier – too bad Bush failed to consider them BEFORE he chose to invade.
Agreed Ben Huie.
However, now that we have joined the dance, let us lead the way as a Nation concentrating our efforts on a victorious solution and try not stepping on anyone else’s feet in the process.
Would that be the invasion that you people in Congress blessed?
fleettwood, The Jewish State has Jews in it. You Have to be a Jew to be a full-fledged citizen. So you’re not going to get away with that.
Those thugs commit atrocities in lock-step as Jews, along with just about every other crime there is.
It’s time they were called out { before any more of our soldiers are killed or maimed }.
If the Jews want to be safe, they need to be n jail, where they belong.
Great to see you back Ed! Rehab seems to be getting longer for you!
Hank
There really is no question here that there wouldn’t be civil war there right now had we never gone there in the first place.
And then there was the mismanagement…
Heck we’re practically in civil war in America over the war in Iraq. And who does Bush think he is with the tough talk on Iran?
Only a republican could try to start yet another war with an even bigger enemy when we can’t finish the two we’ve got.
Bush’s buddy system has put America in the worst possible position, we’re weaker than ever, and more vunerable to attack, and we can’t do a damn thing about the REAL bad guys.
Err Head–
Thanks for the corraboration. I wasn’t aware of yet another damning quote by the Vice-President Darth Cheney.
I got my quote from this source–http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?isbn=0385515987
Peckerwood points out that a lot has changed in 16 years. Yes, indeed.
Cheney put a system in place in which operations normally conducted by the Defense Dept. were contracted out to private companies like . . . uh . . . Halliburton.
The same Halliburton that Cheney was then hired as CEO of, despite having no business experience not even for a day prior to this position.
Dead Eye Dick then cycled back into VP where he was in a position to conduct secret energy policy meetings with companies like Halliburton.
He still draws a paycheck from Halliburton and holds stock options in a MASSIVE conflict of interest.
Not surprisingly, Haliburton is a major player in Iraq and making out like the bandits they are . . .
If all that is true capn, where is the impeachment? Oh, that’s right, it’s not true.
Are your “leaders” not doing their job?
Good point, Ed.
The people that like to call Israel a “democracy” conveniently forget to point out that it’s only a democracy for Jewish citizens.
Everybody else lives under religious apartheid.
Okay Cartoon Conspiracy Boy…
You posts make as about much sense as a splat of vomited words from a consumer of alphabet soup.
Try some choreographed arm-flailing next time, it may help you make sense of your delusions.
Nothing has change since 1991 no WMDs, no Iraq involvement in 9/11. Even some top officials in the Bush 41’s administration warned against invading.
The only difference 12 years made was Cheney’s doing a flip flop on invading Iraq.
Seems flip floping is going around in the repub party like a wild fire.
“Looks like you anti-war people have a friend in the anti-jew community.”
If the anti-war people were against war, they would be protesting the continuing war in Afghanistan.And not every person in America, or for that matter the world, approve of what Israel has done to the Palistian people, fleettwood.
Democrats only just kicked Republican ass in the last election.
While I’m not ruling out impeachment, there is more compelling work at present than making Bush Cheney pay for their many and sundry crimes.
Not everybody loves smash mouth witch-hunt partisan politics as you RePukes.
It’s a country of filthy little barbaric bigots, who seem to think that their shit doesn’t stink.
Hank defends it, so he must be one of them.
His comments carry that stench.
Collusion of interests does not require conspiracy.
Halliburton realized that they could make a killing by feeding at the government trough and they hired Cheney to make that happen.
He has.
That’s not a conspiracy.
That’s seeing your opportunities and taking them as George Washington Plunkett said.
Our boys are getting killed and Halliburton is making a killing.
That about sums it up.
More compelling work like the minimum wage?Just admit it, there no grounds for impeachment. If even half of the things you accuse this administration of doing were true, it would be the duty of the “you people” congress to do something. But you got the minimum wage thing started.
Ed Friedemann has aligned himself with cross-burning, sheet-wearing KKK members and Liberals.
How curious…
“However, now that we have joined the dance, let us lead the way as a Nation concentrating our efforts on a victorious solution and try not stepping on anyone else’s feet in the process.”
Agreed – but more of the “same old same old” is not the way. We need to be willing to negotiate with the neighbors which Bush still refuses to do. The fact is that Bush has royally screwed things up; only a complete change in approach will work.
Perhaps Ben Huie,
I recall reading reports that the US State Department has had interaction with Syria and Iran besides what is reported in the press.
Or do you have access to some inside information indicating otherwise?
Good morning Ed.Lots of dickheads here to play bad mouth with.Have fun.A bunch of brainless wingers who wouldn’t know facts or truth unless they come out of the bomb-bay doors.
Yes, Peckerwood, the minimum wage. Damn right.
Just because it doesn’t directly affect YOU, doesn’t mean it’s not important for the general good.
As far as impeachment, I have mixed feelings. It’s very complicated, and complexity is something you RePukes run and hide from.
Here’s how law professor Sanford Levison, U of Texas, lays it out–
Thanks to the Founders, we were given a Constitution that perversely makes us “better off” with a criminal in the White House instead of someone who is “merely” grotesquely incompetent. The reason is that the Constitution provides us with a language to get rid of a criminal President, but it provides us no language, or process, for terminating the tenure of an incompetent one. Unfortunately, this was a deliberate decision by the Framers, who rejected an altogether sensible proposal to make “maladministration” an impeachable offense for fear that this would give Congress too much power.
. . . there is simply no possibility that Bush will actually be removed from office in the twenty-four months that unfortunately remain to him. One might well contemplate impeachment if there were a possibility of its being successful. But the House Democratic leadership has rejected the idea, not least because there is no possibility that the constitutionally required two-thirds of a nearly evenly divided Senate would vote to convict an impeached George W. Bush. Thus, advocates of impeachment are in effect supporting a strategy doomed not only to fail but also to be perceived by most of the country as a dangerous distraction from the pressing problems facing the country.
American politics would be infinitely better if we could avoid legalistic mumbo-jumbo and accusations of criminality and cut to what is surely the central reality: The American people have exhibited a fundamental loss of confidence in a wartime President/Commander in Chief. In most political systems around the world, the response to such a stinging rebuke would be resignation or removal. But we are trapped in a constitutional iron cage devised by eighteenth-century Framers . . .
Hey feettwood you guys did get an ass whipping in Nov. and it sounds like your ass is still sore.
Since the Democratic Party has taken over they have been having investigations into the Bush Administration, so just because Speaker Pelosi says that impeachment is off the table, doesn’t mean that the American people will not demand it. After all “We the People” are the government, as you saw in Nov.
Repubs are very, very sore loosers.
I have George Bush and Condi Rice saying we have tole Iran what we demand they do – not that we are negotiating with them. Do YOU have such inside info indicating otherwise?
Hey Ed, good to see you back. In case the righties wont say it, you have been correct many times. And will be again.
” Socialistic “Nanny State” that the Democratic Party wants to force on everyone’
Please post that portion of the Democratic Party Platform. I must have missed it….
Godddam, it took bushco six years to screw things up this badly. It took a REPUBLICAN controlled congress 12 years to screw things up this badly.
And the republicons want the dems to fix their mess is less than a month?
Keep it up boys. Everytime you post that nonsense, another democrat angel gets its wings!
BTW, Err Head, you’ll find that simply repeating right-wing boilerplate is not going to get you very far around here.
You may want to turn down Rush and O’reilly and start thinking for yourself . . .
Otherwise, you’ll be no better than another Fleettwood who brings nothing to the table.
Hehehe, good one, KSfrmgrrl.
And everytime a Republican DIES, another GAY angel gets its wings.
Eier is a Jew-killing Nazi bastard.
How expected.
“Try some choreographed arm-flailing next time”
Hmmm. Isnt “arm flailing” JM’s favorite catch phrase? Or is it a standard amongst the freepers? It must be, ’cause I think I’ve seen others of the clone thinkers use it too.
When ideas just wont do, there is always a rushism to fall back on?
But you got the minimum wage thing startedwhat are complaing fleet you’ll be getting a raise soon.
WAS IT 1989 or 1991 when Saddam Hussein originally invaded Kuwait and the U.S responded by lobbing shells into Baghdad?
At that time, I often started the business day at an Overland Park coffee shop with perhaps 10 to 15 business people. I then said we should have invited Saddam Hussein to the U.S., specifically to the Ft. Leavenworth C and G school with many other foreign military officers, for a mental orientation of how things should be done in the middle east.
As I recall, one April Glassby, a representative of the U.S. State Department, had previously met with Saddam Hussein in Iraq and whispered in his ear that the U.S. wouldn’t object strenuosly if he went into Kuwait. The theory being at that point, the U.S. could deal with Hussein easier than some of the Sheiks.
However, signals got crossed and the rest is history. Now, the U.S. has managed to destroy any repoire we might have had in the middle East.
It’s my understanding that Chinese technicians are already hard at work drilling oil in Africa. And waiting patiently for the U.S. and Iraqies to destroy each others economies. China already owns a tremendous mortgage on the U.S., a real debt that requires payment of almost a trillion dollars per year. (Does anyone know how much is paid annually?)
So, now I see only one way out of Iraq — a world changing deal.
That is import millions of “volunteer” civilians from all countries of the world into Iraq to dilute and live among Iraq’s current 26,000,000 people (less than the population of Mexico City, incidentally). Turn Iraq and the middle east into an international country on a large scale and support the expense with the remaining underground petroleum.
Note to Robert Gates, formerly of Wichita, now Secretary of Defense: this “surge” is the only solution that might work in Iraq and the middle east. J. Winkelman of Wichita, Ks.
I see we have a new wingnut named Eler.
I shall endeavor to make him as umcomfortable as possible!
Well of COURSE we have given Iraq a civil war. Their society was brutal and unfair but orderly before bush blew it all up. They would be much better off if they had never heard of bush.
Everybody would.
Not in Kansas Capn. There are no more gay angels here. Much like “jesus done left chicago”, the gay brain drain continues in kansas.
And speaking of “nanny states”, I guess kinzer must be bucking for “king of wingnuttia” since the two queens of wingnuttia (o’conner and bonbon huey) are gone.
Gosh, could kkkinzer have designs on cedar crest? heheheheh. Someone should tell him the wingnut base is dead everywhere except in the kansas republiCON party.
How’d that work for you all in the last election? heheheheheheheheh
Even st. philllllll couldnt hang on to his statewide office. He now has the same loser track record as bonbon, timmy shalli and part time jim and susan “I own bingo parlors but you cant vote on casinos” wagle.
I guess the state of kansas will be in mortal peril if Lawrence is allowed to have a domestic partnership registry? So that is why kinzer and his jackbooted friends are stomping all over home rule?
I just love it. The republiCONS want local control for schools, but not for domestic partnership registries?
Jesus wept.
Kansas…as wingnuttia as you think.
Please take note:
The racist Jew-hating LEFT is the loudest part of the anti-Bush crowd.
How can people who hate other people be considered “experts” when it comes to peace?
The anti-semites are also WRONG. There are many Arabs who serve in Israeli government.
Many Arabs rejected Israeli citizenship when it was offered to them!
Don’t like my post? Fine, can you prove to me that Israel has never elected an Arab politician?
Better yet, prove to me than a single Jew has ever been on a government payroll in an Arab or Moslem Country, can you do that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arabs
Please take note:
The racist Jew-hating LEFT is the loudest part of the anti-Bush crowd.
How can people who hate other people be considered “experts” when it comes to peace?
The anti-semites are also WRONG. There are many Arabs who serve in Israeli government.
Many Arabs rejected Israeli citizenship when it was offered to them!
Don’t like my post? Fine, can you prove to me that Israel has never elected an Arab politician?
Better yet, prove to me than a single Jew has ever been on a government payroll in an Arab or Moslem Country, can you do that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arabs
I still would like too see a few links to the baa’th party doctrine. Maybe if I was a little more educated I could spot the baa’thist hordes wondering through our streets. I’ve heard rumors the Baa’thist were going door to door disguised as Jehovah’s witness soliciting donations. Is this true?
And I suppose, Herr Friedemann, the the holocaust never happened, you neo-Nazi pond scum. You aren’t smart enough to be Jewish. Put your sheet and dunce cap on, and paint a target just below your waist.
Dammit wink, you had it correct up until this point: “support the expense with the remaining underground petroleum.”
Cheney and company wont like that part.
You better believe gates has his marching orders from big oil and pnac. No matter WHERE he is from, he still serves the neocon masters.
I think you have a great idea about the international peace corp approach.
Wouldnt it be the ultimate irony if peace worked in iraq where war did not?
I think an even better irony would be if george and dick’s excellent adventure came to an end that did NOT include them or their big oil buddies profiting from iraq’s natural resources.
Or maybe that wouldnt be ironic. Maybe it would actually be justice, something we havent seen much of and likely wont see much of if the purge of federal prosecutors continues unabated and unpunished.
WWMS?
What would Molly say?
Morning girl.Too bad we missed the Prine gig.Damn.
“The racist Jew-hating LEFT is the loudest part of the anti-Bush crowd.”
So, criticizing Israel makes us “jew hating”?
Well, THAT was predictable!!!
“the the holocaust never happened, you neo-Nazi pond scum”
Oh, I see, and calling Israel out makes us “neo-nazi pond scum” and holocost deniers?
Damn, the quiver must REALLY be empty for you boys. You sure are scraping the bottom of the platitudes barrel this morning!
For the record?
You don’t have to hate Jewish people or anyone else for that matter to have a problem with the state of Israel.
I wish no ill on Jews. I just say that their country needs to be located in a less troublesome place.
Failing that? Well if they are “god’s chosen people” then let god take care of them and the trouble their presence in the middle east brings.
Paul, there are a few Arabs holding low-level positions in Israel. IF Israel allowed ALL Palestinians in Eretz Israel to vote there would be many more. THAT would be true democracy.
The Libs on this blog won’t condemn ed. He sounds a lot like ian. What’s the diff?The minimum wage is more important than prosecuting the “crimes” of this administration? Mis-placed priorities, seems to me. Or, someone is not telling the truth here.
The Holocaust happened. That cannot be denied.
The sandnigers are to blame. They are a lot like our welfare system, to lazy to help themselves
test
Farmie: You pretty much summed it up. Catch up with Friedemann quickly and you can probably hitch a ride to KKKally.
JR: You might have something there. How about we relocate the United States to, say, Rwanda?
Sol – long time no see. How are you doing?
“Or, someone is not telling the truth here.”
Fleetwood please take few minutes away from your super sedition sleuthing and tell us the truth all knowing exalted one. Lay it on us baby we can take it.
There are lots of nicer and less complicated places for Israel to be than where it is rm.
Ben,Hangin in there. Still a lot of fall out after 20 Jan. Trying to put pieces back together and into perspective. Painful at times… thanx for asking.
“The sandnigers are to blame. They are a lot like our welfare system, to lazy to help themselves”
Hey, Libs. ed is on your team, not ours. Start defending.
jr-Are you suggesting Israel should move?
KSFgrrl,Sorry to hear about your Grandmother. Sorry I couldn’t get that too you sooner too. At least she passed with some one she loved.
Like where, JR?? And why should Isrealis have to pack it up and move on down the road. Forty years ago, it was “Send ‘em back to Africa !” What the hell’s the difference? Or, “Send ‘em back to Mexico !” “Throw ‘em in internment camps, slant-eyed little yellow bastards !” How is it different ? It’s NOT !
JR – I cannot agree with you either. That said I WILL call for Israel to respect the “Green Line” and withdraw the illegal immigrants from the other side of that line.
rm – I grew up in the Deep South and remember all too well “send ‘em back to Africa.” I would nod in “agreement” and then suggest other groups. They would love that until … I got to “send ‘em back to Europe.” OOPS!
The Holocaust happened. That cannot be denied or the Jews would have to give all of the money back.
BenI do not argue that Israel is perfect.I do make the point that Israel treats Arabs better than Arab countries and Moslem countries treat Jews.Again, can anyone name a Jew who was ever on the payroll, at any level, in an Arab country? (Other than, perhaps, the Biblical Joseph in Egypt? That is a great story by the way. The Jewish Joe taught the Pharoah to CUT TAXES, which provided the “7 Fat Years”).
Come on, you people. Your silence on ed’s/ian’s comments is deafening.
It is not the same at all.
I am not advocating persecuting or harming anyone.
But there are American indians who have more of a right to land right here in America than the Jewish people have on that slice of land in the mid east.
Ed: What’s the price on your family? Your heritage? Your grandparents? Your parents? Your children? If you think the Holocaust is about money, you’re more delusional than even I expected.
fleettwood, they’re catching-on to just how rotten the Jews and their Shitty-Little so-called ‘country’ really is.
It’s the Drizzly-Shits.
JR; Signing your home over to which tribe? That’s admirable — puts your money where your mouth is.
Friedemann: You’re just another beady eyed cowardly racist weasel and so unimportant and insignificant, that the Mossad doesn’t even know your name.
“Hey Ed, good to see you back. In case the righties wont say it, you have been correct many times. And will be again.”
ksfarmgirl thinks ed is the cat’s pajamas. Must think ian is too.
I’m sorry, I just don’t believe a nation has a divine right to exist.
See? This is the problem when you start creating nations. The base of the problem in Iraq is that IT is a region of diverse and mutually hostile people that someone drew lines around and called a country.
rm6046, you shouldn’t brag about having the lineage of barbarians, thugs, murderers, molesters, and assorted riff-raft.
Stick the Mossad up your ass.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It is already due to get $2.04 billion in military assistance and $720 million in economic aid in fiscal 2003. It has been getting $3 billion a year for years.
Adjusting the official aid to 2001 dollars in purchasing power, Israel has been given $240 billion since 1973, Stauffer reckons. In addition, the US has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel.
“Consequently, politically, if not administratively, those outlays are part of the total package of support for Israel,” argues Stauffer in a lecture on the total costs of US Middle East policy, commissioned by the US Army War College, for a recent conference at the University of Maine.
These foreign-aid costs are well known. Many Americans would probably say it is money well spent to support a beleagured democracy of some strategic interest. But Stauffer wonders if Americans are aware of the full bill for supporting Israel since some costs, if not hidden, are little known.
One huge cost is not secret. It is the higher cost of oil and other economic damage to the US after Israel-Arab wars.
In 1973, for instance, Arab nations attacked Israel in an attempt to win back territories Israel had conquered in the 1967 war. President Nixon resupplied Israel with US arms, triggering the Arab oil embargo against the US.
That shortfall in oil deliveries kicked off a deep recession. The US lost $420 billion (in 2001 dollars) of output as a result, Stauffer calculates. And a boost in oil prices cost another $450 billion.
Afraid that Arab nations might use their oil clout again, the US set up a Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That has since cost, conservatively, $134 billion, Stauffer reckons.
Sell that idea to the ‘….stans’. Now you’re saying the break-up of the Soviet Union was a “bad thing”. Or maybe it’s just a giant cartography conspiracy?? “Nuke the mapmakers!!!” Your positions are absolutely indefensible.
“But look at the links they provide.freerangethought.com?Where do you people find this crap?
“You have to actually go out and find it. Pitiful.”
You know fleetwood, I was starting to worry that Eier was going to take your crown as BDP. But in the above post, you reclaimed your esteemed position as dumbest among the dumb. The link you mention was a reprinting of an article that first appeared in the English medical journal _The Lancet_.
Thinking is not dangerous. Try it sometime.
Still patiently waiting for you and your side to defend the war in Iraq… because to dumb asses like you spending $2 billion a week to create a failed state in the middle of the oil rich middle east, is a great idea, correct???
Would be a lot funnier if it wasn’t so ridiculously pathetic…
It’s “riff-RAFF”, not “riff-RAFT”, you ignorant Nazi. Perhaps, if you had any heritage, you could spell … or, considering the gene pool, not.
I saw the site. Flaming commie lib. That’s enough for me.
Blame the cartographers … makes sense …
PoliticalMom wrote:”…..And who does Bush think he is with the tough talk on Iran?
Only a republican could try to start yet another war with an even bigger enemy when we can’t finish the two we’ve got.”———————
I find that funny. So funny I had to laugh for a minute before responding. It’s just like a Democrat NOT to know what their own candidates are doing. You think only a GOPer would talk tough on Iran? The gal YOU claim is your CHOICE for 2008 talks as tough as they come when it comes to Iran aquiring nukes.
[Hillary quote]“Clinton’s speech seemed to position her somewhat to the right of the Bush administration, which has stressed diplomacy without ruling out any other option. Most experts on the region say a military strike is not feasible and therefore unlikely.
“We cannot take any option off the table in sending a clear message to Iran that they will not be permitted to acquire nuclear weapons,” she said.
Her statements closely echoed comments made by interim Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who this week said his country would not tolerate a nuclear-armed Iran.”[end Hillary Quote]———-http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-ushill194593036jan19,0,3001002.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print
That’s your girl, PM – the one you keep saying is sooooooo different from Bush.
You Dems are all the same – you simply don’t pay attention to the world around you.
lol
WOW – nice to see antisemitism is a live and well in the Democrat Party.
Ed’s more than a little scary. He sees evil Joooos lurking behind every tree.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/16/110443.shtml
Spying on AmericaCharles R. SmithWednesday, Jan. 16, 2002FBI Investigates Foreign Spy Ring –U.S. Companies Deny InvolvementIn the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the FBI reportedly stumbled on an espionage ring that had penetrated the wiretapping system of U.S. law enforcement. Fox News Channel reported that the FBI was holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services.
In a follow-up to these reports, the FBI did not deny that such actions had been taken. However, FBI spokesman Paul Bresson would not answer specific questions on the reported espionage.
“We have seen the Fox News segments that aired several weeks ago on this topic and found some inaccuracies with it. Because they are sensitive issues, I do not have the luxury of discussing what precisely was accurate and what was inaccurate about their reporting,” stated Paul Bresson, spokesman for the FBI.
“Most of the questions [asked by NewsMax.com] are not directly answerable by CALEA [Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act]. Your questions may be more properly addressed to our National Security Division, which I know would never discuss this with you, unfortunately,” stated Bresson.
In the end, morg’s post meansNOTHING.
Mr. Krauthammer appears to be conducting an exercise in the parsing of words. Literally, the U.S. did not “give” the Iraqis a civil war. However, one might aruge that the removal of Saddam was a “proximate cause” of the current unpleasantness in Iraq, with the sectarian strife a natural and foreseeable consequence of the action, especially in light of the tensions lying below the surface.
Interestingly, Mr. Krauthammer does not identify in the linked piece the “mistakes” admittedly made. I wonder if he would include in his list thereof the failure to have planned for the strife, which, IIRC, was widely predicted prior to the invasion.
The original question was “who is to blame for Iraq’s civil war?”
The answer is relatively simple – there was no civil war in Iraq prior to the invasion – therefore the civil war is a result of the Bush war of choice.
The question is not who caused the civil war; it is what the Hell do we do now that the country has decended into civil war?
Peckerwood–
Ed NORTON is not Ed Freideman.
Personally, I think that Ed could be anti-Jewish. But I haven’t seen anything overtly anti-Jewish he’s written yet today.
Being anti-Israeli-zionist is not the same as being anti-Jewish.
That’s what I thought when I read Morg’s post as well. I said to myself, “It appears to be a non-story.” Maybe it will flesh out at a later date as it does have intrigue, just no substance.
My everyone got busy posting all of a sudden. Scan goggles on…done.
You are correct, WS Clark.
Unfortunately, the “party of personal responsibility” is only interested in making OTHER PEOPLE be responsible.
When it’s their guy and their mess, all they can say is, “what’s your plan?”
Uh, gee, a$$h*les, my plan would have been to HAVE A PLAN.
Type slower . . . Err Head can’t keep up . . .
Who is to blame?It’s the responsibility of the invading nation(s) to maintain peace, and provide security, after removing the previous government.
Krauthammer, in header, is an unrealistic (redundant) neocon.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Krauthammer“Krauthammer is a defender of unilateralism and maintains that as a superpower, the U.S. should assert its positions and invite others to join.”
The U.S. being a “superpower” doesn’t seem to help in Iraq… and maybe they don’t want to “join” us?
We will be greeted as LIBERATORS!!!!
Yeah, right. Twelve people greeted us as liberators and that only lasted for about eight minutes.
After that, the civil war was on.
Hey, but MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!
I’m amazed, but not surprised, at the deep-seeded bigotry of my fellow Kansans.
Who’s to blame? The “Jews,” the “sand niggers,” the “commies,” the “faggots,” and on and on.
Look in the mirror, all of you.
The only-est reason in the world the MidEast is of any concern is that black stuff getting pumped up out of the ground.
You, and I (I’ll admit it), and everyone in the world is addicted to petroleum like a junkie on heroin. We’ll pay any price for a fix, we’ll kill other people for a fix, we’ll ruin our lives and our families and our planet just to get another tankful of the stuff.
Imagine what might be accomplished if the United States of America spent $2 Billion a week to develop alternative energy technologies.
If we don’t kill off humanity due to with our volunatry overdosing on petrolum, I can imagine a time — say, 500 years in the future — when people will be astounded that those poor stupid people back in the 20th and 21st Centuries actually *burned* precious oil! Oil will still be a staple for plastics manufacturing and development of chemicals and medicines; but to think of people simply burning it up will seem as primitive as leeches in doctors’ offices.
The world would be better off if it were adicted to heroin. Yeah, a lot of people would be nodding off every day, but at least they’d stay off the highways. And heroin, unlike oil, is a renewable resource.
WS you might ask the families of the hundreds of thousands whose bodies were found in common graves. Or really were lined up like cattle and shot then kicked in a large hole in the ground – some as young as two years of age. This happened under Saddam. He gassed entire villages of his own people. I’ve even seen those pictures on CNN. Do you think he did this because he loved the people he was killing. Any people he thought oppossed him were assinated including his own son-in-laws. Don’t forget the wood chippers his enemies were put into feet first so they would suffer as long as possible. The rape rooms. The hundred of young school girls that were kidnapped off the streets to supply those rooms.
To state there was no strife until the US entered the area is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the world around you. I hear a very different story from the military people I see coming back from Iraq. They were welcomed as heros by the majority of Iraqis but not by the cohorts of Saddam who knew they would lose their tyranical hold on the country. I hate to see every body bag that comes back from Iraq every bit as bad as you do but I also realize that we do have a job to complete there.
Contrary to the belief stated here by every Demo that refuses to look at the facts and also at the people who supported going to war – it wasn’t a completely republican effort (see Clinton, Kerry, etc… statements), it isn’t Haliburtons fault, and Rush Limbaugh didn’t give the order to go to war. When you use that ‘mind numbed robot’ quote, use it in the right context. These are the mindless followers of the demo line while never questioning anything. Rush listeners are urged to be free thinkers and not follow the party line.
And Israel has every right to exist in the Middle East. They have a very small piece of real estate and as long as they are left alone will be peaceful. With all the land the others countries occupy why don’t they give some to the Palestinians and solve that problem? Could it be because the Irsalies have developed that land to be productive and support a very large population on a postage stamp size country?
CapnCrunch wrote:”Being anti-Israeli-zionist is not the same as being anti-Jewish.”————
True. Criticizing Zion (a political agenda) is fine, but saying that all Jews belong in jail – is not. It’s racist, bigoted and flat out wrong.
Oh – and it is definetly antisemitic.
Ed’s a douche bag I speculated months ago that his antismetic rants come from some deep seated rensemnet stemming from being corneholed by a male member of his family: father uncle etc. ED and Ian can jerk each other off as far I care. Fleet, I never see anyone on the “right” ever condemm Ian or Horst.
Jeez, Germie, where do we start?
There are 270,000 Jewish settlers living illegally in Palestinian territories. That is hardly the actions of a neighbor that intends to solve the issue peacefully.
Until 1947, there was no Israel. If the Jews deserve a homeland, then so do the Palestinians.
Secondly, there are many brutal dictators in the world that should/could be eliminated. The US cannot be the world’s policeman. We tried that before – it does not work.
Saddam was not threat to the US – even Bush and Cheney have had to admit that.
Saddam was a monster we created. He was beinf contained by UN sanctions and UN Inspectors. There was no need for American lives and treasure to be wasted in Iraq.
You may think back also, whe Saddam gassed the Kurds – he was still our ally against Iran. Saddam was hated by al Qaeda even more than they hated us.
Now we have created even more terrorists, by even the calculation of our own intelligence organizations.
Good job, George.
ksgrm,
“He gassed entire villages of his own people.”
Do you really want to bring up that issue? What was Reagan’s response to the use of CW’s?
Who is shaking Saddam’s hand in this photo (and video)?http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
Rush listeners are urged to be free thinkers and not follow the party line.
no only the clean ones are urged to do that
Rumsfield was prophetic when he said the deadenders were in their last throes. Only problem is, the deadenders are the Bush administration and their last throes are more failed strategies.
That head in the sand attitude WS is what is wrong with your whole argument. We didn’t make terrorists. They made themselves. They attacked us many time before we ever raised a hand to them. That would be under Clinton who didn’t think blowing up one of our military ships was worth retribution. The ‘facts’ you quote about Saddam are barely factual. We did back him for a time. We also recognized that his invasion of his neighbors was going to keep escalating. The UN sanctions were not working. He had violated them many, many times and nothing was done. Bush took the battle to them instead of letting them come to us. The leaders on the left agreed at the time that this had to happen. This is the scariest part of a demo getting in the White House. Presidents don’t have the ability to say “Whoops I made a mistake” Bring our military home. I voted for this and now I am voting against it. RE: Clinton, and cohorts.
Maybe Cosmos would like to see the photograph of Khrushchev and John F. Kennedy and draw a conclusion from just the photograph.
Perhaps Cosmos will draw a conclusion that JFK was a Communist sympathizer because he was photographed several times with Khrushchev.
Cosmos I couldn’t agree with you more that we need to pick our allies better. But that doesn’t mean we can’t mend the error of our ways.
“That would be under Clinton who didn’t think blowing up one of our military ships was worth retribution.”
The Cole was attacked near the end of Clintons term and the al Qaeda connection has not confirmed by the CIA until he left office. The question that should have been asked is “what did GWB do in response to the attack on the Cole?”
The answer is NOTHING!
As for Saddam, he invaded Iran with the full support of the Reagan/Bush administration. He armed him during that time.
It was only after he invaded Kuwait, with GHWB’s tacit approval, that we viewed him as an enemy.
Get your facts straight before you try attacking me.
As for creating terrorists? It was the goddamed Bush intelligence organizations that stated that the War on Iraq CREATED more terrorists.
Christ, learn how to read!
Eier,
It’s NOT just the photo. Reagan considered Saddam an ally.
Are you claiming that John F. Kennedy considered Khrushchev an “ally”? Your proof?
WS what a crock of an argument. It was at the end of his term so no action was taken! What about the embassies they bombed, the first world trade center bombing, the military barracks in Germany that was bombed. Come on. Give me the excuses for those. American security just wasn’t at the top of his priority list. He was too busy lying to Hillary and covering his own behind. Oh, he did blow up that aspirin factory in Sudan in the middle of the night. That has to count for something. I Think!!
Jeez, do you ever use facts, Germie?
Really.
This ground has been covered over and over again. For instance, the mastermind of the first WTC attacks is serving life without parole in Colorado.
I notice that you did not answer the question as to why Bush did NOT do anything in response to the Cole attack. In was not until January 2001 that the CIA confirmed the al Qaeda connection.
He’s your f’ing hero – answer the question.
Boy, I smoked those inbred bastards out today.
All those fuc*ing Jews in a Tessy………..Priceless.
Not at all Cosmos. I don’t make assertions based on photographs, evidently like you do.
You evidently left out the part that Rumsfeld was asked to go see Saddam because of his contacts in the region.
You also left out the fact that Iran had taken over our Embassy a few years earlier and held American Hostages.
Another revision of history by Liberals; point proven.
Context is everything when it comes to asserting your own truths now isn’t it?
WSClark?
You tend to forget the 10-13 times that Clinton had close surveillance of Bin Laden and did nothing. He didn’t know anything about Alqueda?
Wow, Liberals are just revising history at top speed.
“You evidently left out the part that Rumsfeld was asked to go see Saddam because of his contacts in the region.”
Unfortunately, Eier, this photo was taken after Saddam had used poison gas in the Iraq/Iran War.
That kind of takes the wind out of the “we had to invade Iraq because Saddam gassed his own people” argument.
Eier,
“I don’t make assertions based on photographs, evidently like you do.”
The link I provided has photos, AND many relevant DOCUMENTS.http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82
“You tend to forget the 10-13 times that Clinton had close surveillance of Bin Laden and did nothing. He didn’t know anything about Alqueda?”
That is such complete bullshit, Germie. If that is true, provide a credible link. Usually, the CONS just claim that Clinton had TWO shots are bin Laden, not 10-13 times.
You may remember that YOU PEOPLE accused Clinton of “wagging the dog” when he missed bin Laden by an hour with a cruise missle.
WS do you ever deal in real facts or do you have some outdated story books you read. My son was in the gulf when the Cole was hit and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt they knew it was Al Kaeda at the time it happened. You might have had to wait for a report to come out but the military and Clinton knew it at the time it happened.
Clinton made a CHOICE to do nothing because he had dug himself a big hole and he was to busy lying to a federal grand jury.
ksgrm,
Bill Clinton correctly saw terrorism as a major threat to the U.S., was focused on it, and urged Rice to do the same.
Now, list EVERYTHING that Bush did to fight terrorism between the time he took office, until 9/11 happened.Like not responding to the Aug. PDB.
It wont take you much time, or space here. ;)
We also had trade relations with Germany and Japan prior to WWII.
Your expectation of an answer to fit your agenda is beyond weak, it shows your naivety in understanding overt and covert Foreign Relations.
“Clinton made a CHOICE to do nothing because he had dug himself a big hole and he was to busy lying to a federal grand jury.”
So your son trumps the CIA? Interesting, maybe you should give Bush a call – he needs some help in the intelligence department.
So do you, Germie…..
The Cole attack happened on October 12, 2000 – about three months before Clinton left office.
The impeachment fiasco was long since over and the grand jury testimony was history.
Still waiting for that link about the 10-13 times Clinton had a shot at bin Laden.
Or did you make that up?
Blackwater Inc. – Fundamentalist owned and operated mercenary operation? Talk about loose cannons!
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/26/1559232
http://www.counterpunch.org/scahill01252007.html
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m30085&hd=&size=1&l=e
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/blackwater-hires-ken-star_b_32687.html
50 senators recently received mail concering this USA mercenary operation. Send more mail.http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Cosmos it went on through Clinton’s entire time in office and you are telling me that in his first 9 months in office Bush should have cleaned up Clintons mess he left. Surely you see the absurdity in that logic. Will you always carry Clinton’s water and refuse to face the truth about what has happened in the world we live in. Terrorists existed under Clinton, they exist under Bush, we didn’t create them, they formed their own hatred on their own time and started slowly chipping away at our edges. What is there about this the leftists can’t understand?
“On January 25, Tenet briefed the President on the Cole investigation. The written briefing repeated for top officials of the new administration what the CIA had told the Clinton White House in November. This included the “preliminary judgment” that al Qaeda was responsible, with the caveat that no evidence had yet been found that Bin Ladin himself ordered the attack… in March 2001, the CIA’s briefing slides for Rice were still describing the CIA’s “preliminary judgment” that a “strong circumstantial case” could be made against al Qaeda but noting that the CIA continued to lack “conclusive information on external command and control” of the attack.”
This would be a fact, Germie, not your son’s opinion.
hehehe sollie, someone else’s grandmother must have died. Mine have all been dead more than 30 years.
You made an accusation, Germie, now back it up.
Clinton had 10-13 chances to deal with bin Laden – give us a link or admit that you were wrong.
I can agree with Ed on some things without agreeing on EVERYTHING.
He can be right about some things even if he is not right about EVERYTHING.
You freepers really love that black and white thinking and all or nothing mentality. In freeper land, “your are either with us or against us”. And I guess if you drink the kookaide, you have to drink all of it? Everytime.
Damn, I am so glad I dont live in freeperville.
No wonder your logic goes around in circles.
WS I didn’t print the part about the 10-13 time Clinton could have caught BinLaden but the proof could be filed in Sandy Bergers underwear drawer. That seems to be where some highly classified documents concerning that matter ended up.
My son’s word is to me worth much more that your word. His ten years spent on a fast attack sub which carried the Navy Seals qualify him. What qualifies you?
If you believe all the CIA puts out then why are you giving the prez a hard time. Afterall the initial justification for the war came from their own documents. They were updated later but entirely changed in their substance.
ksgrm,
“…we didn’t create them, they formed their own hatred on their own time…”
You believe that U.S. military bases on their religious land was NOT a factor?
And are you saying that Bush did nothing against terrorism during his first 9 months? No list?
“My son’s word is to me worth much more that your word.”
I was quoting the CIA and I posted the information, B*tch.
It was not MY WORD, it was the report of the CIA.
Christ, you are an idiot. Do you ever back up anything you say?
I am still waiting for you to explain how Clinton was lying to the Grand Jury in October of 2000.
I contend Bush ignored the warnings from the CIA so as to do what he is doing right now. The military did not want to do Iraq and be diverted from the Taliban and Al qaeda however Bush wanted Iraq oil the real plan:
Even as Iraq verges on splintering into a sectarian civil war, four big oil companies are on the verge of locking up its massive, profitable reserves, known to everyone in the petroleum industry as “the prize.”
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43045/?comments=view&cID=257615&pID=2574112003-04/13du_boff.cfm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2132467.ece
Why didn’t g bush 1 take out evil Saddam when he was there with 500000 troops a gazzilion planes and free fuel from the Saudis And I’m sure Isreal contributed too.
I don’t know WSClark, did I make that up or you just are too lazy to do your own research.
Ever try the Public Library? There is more to life than the Internet.
Here, I’ll give you an advantage, some keywords you can look up and search for yourself. Most likely your search will be the Internet only, so you will have to sort out the Google garbage of what was reported and what was minced by revisionists.
Harry Smith Taken Aback as CBS Analyst Blames Clinton for bin Laden Failures
Massoud – Time MagazineMadeline Albright comments on the attacks on KhoustClinton’s cruise missle attack on attack near Khost
In the 9/11 report: (C-130 gun ships) Clinton failed to negotiate with Pakistan for rights to land in their country
Secretary of Defense William Cohen comments on Clinton’s attempt to go after Bin Laden
I know its hard to research to find out the facts, but please do try.
“I don’t know WSClark, did I make that up or you just are too lazy to do your own research.”
What the Hell are you talking about, Eier?
WS I really have to run now but I can go knowing that I won because you were reduced to calling me names and didn’t refute anything I said. One word of advise. The CIA really doesn’t report to ABC, CBS, CNN and CBS. They report to the prez and thankfully there is some information that is never released to the public. Imagine running a government while watching the pols on national TV. Oh I forgot that is how Clinton governed. Oh well.
What about old Sandy Berger? What was he trying to hide? You didn’t answer that one? Did you? Did You? Did You?
The redundancy was so I could leave and not have to ask the same question over and over.
No wonder WSClark can’t get the facts right. He confuses one poster with the other and addresses something they didn’t say to them. Then when the correct poster addresses the issue being discussed, WSClark pulls a Bill Clinton and “doesn’t recall.”
You know, Germie, I am really sick of you CONS making claims about lefties or liberals or whatever, then choosing to run away when asked for proof.
As for refuting what you said – I refuted EVERYTHING you said.
Where is your link to the 10-13 times Clinton, yada, yada?
Where is your response to my refuting your statement about Clinton lying to the GJ in October of 2000?
Where is your response to the fact that the Blind Sheik is serving life for the first WTC attack?
As usual, you CONS are full of crap.
Yep, Germie, I called you a B*tch – you called me out and now you are running away.
Typical CON.
Hey!
I rode a fast attack submarine for ten years, I’m an expert too!
Hank
Still waiting Eier, or is this part of the GeeSure and Eier act?
What the hell are you talking about?
Seems like a simple question.
Ya know? I’m no great fan of BIll Clinton.
He was the best Republican President of the last century!
But he had an awful lot of distraction in his time in office. People just exactly like eler and Gsheri trying from the get go to destroy him in any way possible
The right is MORE to blame for any attack Clinton missed. They would not let the man do his job.
Know what’s gratifying? Ranting flag wavers like GSheri and eler are a vanishing demographic!
And provide a link, Eier…..
Go to the Public Library WSClark, that’s where I retrieved the information.
If you depend on the Internet for all of your information, then you are missing about 99 percent of available factual information.
So, Eier, Clinton 10-13 chances at bin Laden – where is the link?
Why didn’t g bush 1 take out evil Saddam when he was there with 500000 troops a gazzilion planes and free fuel from the Saudis And I’m sure Isreal contributed too.
The redundancy was so I could leave and not have to ask the same question over and over.
I know what you kgerm frustrating isn’t it
eler gets all his talking points from Sean Hannity.
What a cop-out, Eier. Everything that is available at the Library is also available online.
You have nothing to support your claims, so you are reduced to this pathetic distortion.
Go to the Library?
Christ – for your sake, I do hope that this is a Gee Sure and Eier act.
Even the most rabid CON only claims that Clinton had TWO chances at bin Laden. You must be really sucking up the kool aid to come up with 10-13.
I can see WSClark is yet another lazy liberal too self-important to do his own research.
If WSClark can’t get off his bottom, passed his chips, rum and coke he can’t verify anything beyond his keyboard.
Another arm-flailing Liberal, ranting and raving in room full of trash, smoke and worn out furniture.
“Go to the Public Library WSClark, that’s where I retrieved the information.”
I okay, Eier, I’ll take the bait – from what book or reference source did you get the information that Clinton had 10-13 chance to get bin Laden?
THAT part should be easy for a smart CON like you.
Right?
Take the challenge WSClark or start back on your World Wide ranting tour of useless banter.
Show some initiative.
Well, Eier, there are thousands upon thousands of books and refernce sources at just the Main Library, so how about narrowing it down for me?
That should be easy, right?
I mean, if I asked you to go to the Library and get the correct pushrod length for the Exhaust Valve on a 1983 Shovelhead, it might take you a while, correct?
So…… just giving me the source for your information is only fair.
WSClark,
I already gave you keywords to research. You too busy with your mindless rants to read them.
If you don’t know how to research, might I suggest a College level course on how to do so.
WSClark,Now Mr.Clark listen to mr.error he setme down the right path with the baa’thist hordes here in wichita now sir let me tell ya he was rite. da man gott it goin on. And he got me str8 on the personel cleanly stuff too somem
Damn, Eier, I am glad that I am not wearing my good boots when blogging with you.
Your bullshit is just WAY too deep.
Loser.
Ah, I knew you would resort to Liberal 101, name-calling.
Atta boy WSClark, go see your mama now and get a little chest loving.
“Ah, I knew you would resort to Liberal 101, name-calling.”
So that means that you DON’T have the name of the book where you got your information, right Eier?
You made the shit up and now you can’t backpedal fast enough.
Loser.
And my mother is dead, chump.
Name of the book? Oh my! You are really not familiar what is held in a Library are you?
Sorry to hear about your mother. That explains your angst when discussing issues with adults.
now now Mr.Clark rersorting to the name calling that’s not rite after all l;ook all the links Mr.error didn’t provide us must mean us somabitchs is wrong after all he be a smooth talking college eleattist kinda guy
“Name of the book? Oh my! You are really not familiar what is held in a Library are you?”
So, if there are so MANY books that confirm your statement, Eier, you should be able to name just ONE, right?
Loser.
BTW – I am 54 and my mother died in 1958.
eyore you piece of poop.You ain’t posted a damn thing on this thread but hateful bullshit.I went clear to the top of the thread and you ain’t made one real point.You started out calling Steven Davis a baath party wannabe, and got more stew-pud as it goes on.Do you have an actual point here?Sounds like you must work with G. Sheridan at QuickTrip.Both of you are all vitriol, no substance.
wow gsheridan works at qt I need to go their and get me one of those SLURPEEES
And your point Tracy? Making those neck veins bulge again? Perhaps Tracy forgot the opinion part of BLOG?
Yes WSClark, books, that’s all a modern Library has is books.
I don’t think you will find many books with lots of pictures on this particular topic WSClark, unless you go to the children’s section.
Perhaps a Librarian can read the material to you, they do offer that service to those with reading disabilities.
EeyoreFrom WikipediaEeyore is a character in the book series Winnie-the-Pooh by A.A. Milne.He is a pessimistic, gloomy, old donkey who is a friend of Winnie the Pooh.Eeyore’s name is a phonetic representation of the donkey’s bray: an onomatopoeia, possibly derived from the baby talk name for the animal.
Physically, Eeyore is described as an “old grey donkey”. In Ernest H. Shepard’s illustrations, he appears to be about waist-high to Pooh and about knee-high to Christopher Robin. He has a long tail, of which he is very fond, but also prone to losing. (Owl once mistakes it for a bell-rope.) Christopher Robin is able to reattach the tail with a nail.
Emotionally, Eeyore the donkey is perpetually gloomy.He always seems convinced the worst is going to happen, whether or not it does, and even on the rare occasions when he is happy he remains cynical and sarcastic.
Eeyore is apparently able to write, or at least recognize letters (such as the letter A that he teaches to Piglet in the fifth chapter of House at Pooh Corner).
Eeyore lives in the southeast corner of the Hundred Acre Wood, in an area labeled “Eeyore’s Gloomy Place” on the map in the book. He has a stick house there, called the House at Pooh corner, which Pooh and Piglet built for him after accidentally mistaking the original house that Eeyore built for a pile of sticks.
Eeyore’s favorite food is thistles.
“Yes WSClark, books, that’s all a modern Library has is books.”
Well, that is more bullshit, Eier.
The Library has reference sources, including periodicals, the Internet, newspapers, magazines, videos, DVD’s, etc.
So it should be REALLY easy to just name your source for your claim.
Unless, of course, you are LYING.
Then it would be a little more difficult.
Loser.
eeyore, my point is that you only come here to be an ass.You did not start with a POV, but an insult to Mr. Davis that was and is completely unfounded and out of line.You never even addressed the issue of blame for civil war.You just went on trying to flame out at everybody you think might be liberal.That’s my point.Do you have one besides the top of your head?
WSC, you’re arguing with an ass.Extreme waste of time.Carry on, my good man.
And what are you doing Tracy? Who appointed you God and left you in charge? Nobody that’s who.
That’s right WSClark, a library has all of those things you mentioned. I’m glad you caught on to my sarcastic statement.
Now run-run-run and go research; or back to your bottle of booze, your choice.
Eier,
If your source re 10 – 13 chances is who I think it is, he also IRONICALLY says that we should’ve started cutting our oil usage back in 1973.
This explains how Reagan, in 1985, greatly increased our M-E oil addiction.http://www.rmi.org/images/other/Security/S90-26_MakeFuelEffGulf.pdf
These PDF’s with Reagan’s signatures prove that his strategy was military force in the M-E, to keep the oil flowing. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82
And today, we’re STUCK in Iraq, because we’re STILL addicted to their oil.
Yeah, I know, Trace, but it is funny to see how he tries to excuse the fact that he doesn’t have anything to back up his claim.
Germie ran away.
Eier tosses out lame crap about “going to the Library.”
Funny stuff.
Actually, I am doing my taxes right about now and just checking back every few minutes to see how the CONS defend the indefensible.
So far, it is a lot more humorous than the stuff on TV.
Actually, Trace, I think that Eier and Germie are actually one and the same.
Wadda ya’ think?
Good eyes Cosmos, you are catching on about what the Middle East is about.
Like it or not, that’s the reality of the age of necessity we live.
Now if they would just bring out those cars that power themselves, we could be happy and procreate.
Eier,
“Now if they would just bring out those cars that power themselves,”
Low mpg vehicles are not a “necessity”.Are you so stupid that you don’t realize we could easily & safely more than double mpg, with existing technology?
Maybe your public library doesn’t have that info?
And I KNEW over 30 years ago that the M-E was about oil.
Ah Cosmos I give you a compliment and you abuse the situation. Too bad…
I have nothing against economy when it comes to fuel, it’s long overdue. You won’t get any argument from me about energy efficiency, I’m all for it.
Catching up is a pain, but I’ll give it a try.
“How many by IED’s? You know that we did not do that, don’t you?”Right, we actually do it. But we certainly gave them the opportunity and REASON to use them.
“What bad people do is not our fault, bad people will do bad things anyway.”Copout, pure and simple.
“…is that you are part of the great Satin and the evil US.”You forgot about Velvet.
“A bunch of brainless wingers who wouldn’t know facts or truth unless they come out of the bomb-bay doors.”Ouch! The truth hurts.
“Thus, advocates of impeachment are in effect supporting a strategy doomed not only to fail but also to be perceived by most of the country as a dangerous distraction from the pressing problems facing the country.”That puts it in perspective. Now, if the the wingnuts would put on their perspective glasses, maybe they could see.
“The sandnigers are to blame.”Ah, a racist among us! How refreshing.
“Good job, George.”Excellent post, WSC! (12:44)
“We didn’t make terrorists.”You’re right, ksgrm. We GREW them. We provided fuel for the fire. How’s that working for ya and the 1000 dead in January?
“You tend to forget the 10-13 times that Clinton had close surveillance of Bin Laden and did nothing.”
10 to 13?? BTW, the poster, when asked, is required to provide a link for proof of statement. Play by the rules, or don’t play. “The Public Library” is not proof.
“My son’s word is to me worth much more that your word.”So we attack on rumor, without proof? Sounds like a wingnut.
On 26 February 1993, a car loaded with 1,200 pounds of explosives blew up in a parking garage under the World Trade Center, killing six people and injuring about a thousand others. The blast did not, as its planners intended, bring down the towers — that was finally accomplished by flying two hijacked airliners into the twin towers on the morning of 11 September 2001.Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Baghdad.
On 13 November 1995, a bomb was set off in a van parked in front of an American-run military training center in the Saudi Arabian capital of Riyadh, killing five Americans and two Indians. Saudi Arabian authorities arrested four Saudi nationals whom they claim confessed to the bombings, but U.S. officials were denied permission to see or question the suspects before they were convicted and beheaded in May 1996.
On 25 June 1996, a booby-trapped truck loaded with 5,000 pounds of explosives was exploded outside the Khobar Towers apartment complex which housed United States military personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing nineteen Americans and wounding about three hundred others. Once again, the U.S. investigation was hampered by the refusal of Saudi officials to allow the FBI to question suspects.On 21 June 2001, just before the American statute of limitations would have expired, a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia, indicted thirteen Saudis and an unidentified Lebanese chemist for the Khobar Towers bombing. The suspects remain in Saudi custody, beyond the reach of the American justice system. (Saudi Arabia has no extradition treaty with the U.S.)
On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting extradition in London.
On 12 October 2000, two suicide bombers detonated an explosives-laden skiff next to the USS Cole while it was refueling in Aden, Yemen, blasting a hole in the ship that killed 17 sailors and injured 37 others. No suspects have yet been arrested or indicted. The investigation has been hampered by the refusal of Yemini officials to allow FBI agents access to Yemeni nationals and other suspects in custody in Yemen.(The USS Cole bombing occurred one month before the 2000 presidential election, so even under the best of circumstances it was unlikely that the investigation could have been completed before the end of President Clinton’s term of office three months later.)
In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:
In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation — from such people as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) — that he was acting precipitously to draw attention away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans accused him of hysteria.. . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton’s watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed — he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier — recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world.
. . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush’s policy promising that regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But Clinton aides said such a policy — potentially involving a full-scale war in central Asia — was not plausible before politics the world over became transformed by one of history’s most lethal acts of terrorism.
Clinton’s former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm
Eier & ksgrm,
Please explain why Bush called off the Predator after taking office in 2001, when it was the Predator that had been sent to look for Bin Laden.
Thanks Tracy for defending me. It is not necessary though. When people like Eier give me grief and never back any their of stuff – it helps me know I am on the right track. Such folk serve their purpose.
I still say it is a neck and neck race between fleet and eier for BDP.
“I saw the site. Flaming commie lib. That’s enough for me.”
Posted by: fleettwood | February 06, 2007 at 11:44 AM
You know when I saw that this was the best they’ve got, I decided to go do my taxes. Jousting with pygmies gets to be pretty boring after a very short time.
RD,
Not familiar with that particular incident without a specific date.
The Predators had about a 35 percent failure rate accomplishing their mission prior to 2002. The Global Hawk wasn’t much better. Much to the chagrin of Bush, a hellfire-loaded Predator did kill some “tall” Afghanis which turned out to be just local shepherds.
RD,
I’d guess Eier doesn’t want to provide a link to the “10 to 13″, because that guy wrote a book in 2004, critical of the Bush admin’s counterterrorism policy.
Also, the CIA “relieved” him of his position in 1999. He didn’t go to cabinet meetings, and complained that risks should be taken, i.e. killing princes who happened to be near OBL.
WS and RD I didn’t run anywhere just have a life outside this blog to take care of. I’m not sure what the objection was to me saying my son was in the gulf during/after the USS Cole attack. You don’t even know him and you are attacking his credibility. He was on the USS Samuel Jackson. A nuclear sub which was redesigned to carry the Navy Seals. Or was the part that bothers you that the network news and CNN are on the direct distribution list from the CIA?
That aside other that calling me names – did you ever answer my question about what was on the documents Sandy Berger thought were so explosive that he had to destroy them. Only two people were privy to what was on those documents – Clinton and Berger – draw you own conslusions.
And WS did you miss the whole Clinton presidency or just the parts you wanted to forget. Your boy Bill lied to a Fed. Grand Jury, was impeached and has since been censured by the Arkansas bar association where his law license is issued.
I get it. Bill Clinton is to blame for Iraq’s civil war. I should have known.
A pox on both your houses.
The advocates on this forum seem far more interested in fixing the blame than in fixing the problem.
Well, Germie, YOU said that Clinton failed to deal with the Cole attack because he was busy lying to the Grand Jury.
I merely pointed out that the Cole attack was committed on October 12, 2000 – three months before Clinton left office and two years AFTER he was impeached.
So who is being disengenuous, Germie?
And I said that your son’s OPINION was immaterial – I was quoting (and posted) the determination of the *&^@#$ CIA.
YOU are the one, Germie, that tried to make it a matter of your son’s opinion v. MY opinion.
That of course, is horseshit, like most of everything else you post.
As for what was in the Berger documents? I have no idea and neither do you.
The difference is that I will acknowledge that I do not know the answer to that question, while you will claim supernatural powers in “knowing” what was there.
“A pox on both your houses.”
Sorry, Monk, but the reich wingers started the fight – I am just finishing it.
By the way, if all the folks on the left had the courage to fight back, we would be in the third year of President Kerry’s adminstration.
WS when you challenge someone you have to expect to defend your position or face the criticism that follows. You were the one who was trying to absolve Clinton from any responsiblity. Bush in his first nine months was faced with the greatest attack on American soil we have ever faced. What I said and I stand behind is that in my opinion Clinton should have gone to Bush personally and taken the time to update him on what was happening. He (Clinton) knew what was happening. He was handling the intel daily. But instead of working with Bush he and Hillary spent their last hours in the white house raiding the china closets, silverware drawers and anything else they could carry out the front door.
“But instead of working with Bush he and Hillary spent their last hours in the white house raiding the china closets, silverware drawers and anything else they could carry out the front door.”
Jeez, Germie, you ARE truly full of shit. That old story has been totally debunked – over and over again. Even the GOP has had to admit that the story was BS.
So, tell me again how Clinton avoided dealing with the Cole attack because he was lying to a Grand Jury…..
“Bush in his first nine months was faced with the greatest attack on American soil we have ever faced”
BTW – Germie, you MAY want to remember December 7, 1941 – I do believe that having an entire country attack us is a slightly larger attack force than 19 al Qaeda terrorists.
Let’s not minimize the impact of Pearl Harbor so that YOU can glorify YOUR two-bit president.
You’ll have to forgive Gram, she likely gets her news from Faux.
Yeah, I know, P Mom, even the Free Republic folks have given up on the “Clinton trashed the WH” story.
I am just curious as to how the Germie justifies her comment that Clinton was distracted from dealing with the Cole attack because he was lying to the Grand Jury.
And I have to also wonder how her son’s Navy service trumps the CIA.
And I also have to wonder what she knows about Sandy Berger’s underwear.
And I also have to wonder, yada, yada, yada.
It seems that Germie KNOWS everything.
They wrecked Air Force ONe as well. It was in Seattle for 8 months getting fixed afterward. Ask any Boeing worker.
‘mon, Germie, you made some accusations, now provide some proof. Stop slapping the little man in the canoe and back up your statements.
Welcome back, Ass – now go back to where you came from.
THe Islamic facists are responsible for the War. Now GWB or WJC. The bad guys attacked US, and tear up the world.
Both parties need to understand that one.
Yet still we set here and divide ourselves over minutial and political allegiance, and miss the fact that there is a growing force that wants us all dead, and will not understand us no matter what.
Islamic Facists are the bad guys here. Not WJC or GWB. They are killing their own people. Predominately Iraqi males 25-42. Saddam is out, and if Islamic and Sharia law is left out, then democracy will follow.
IT is of the US to lose and the Iraqi’s to win.
Can’t we all root for the home team (Iraq and the US) to win? Wouldn’t that be a great thing?
ASS – you got any evidence to back up that bullshit claim? The White House one has been thoroughly debunked; looks like you just made up this one.
Rude as always Clarkie, you are consistent.
ASS – you got any evidence to back up that bullshit claim? The White House one has been thoroughly debunked; looks like you just made up this one.
Dang, Ass, can you interpret your post for us?
ASS – you got any evidence to back up that bullshit claim? The White House one has been thoroughly debunked; looks like you just made up this one.
So you DO want us to lose there Clarkie?
That combination of Oxycontin and cocaine really scrambles your head; ain’t that right ASBESTOS!
Yep, Ass, I am rude when people toss the bullshit around.
That is me – a rude SOB.
Try telling the truth and then the rudeness will stop. Until then, deal with it, Ass.
ASBESTOS,
8 months to replace a 15 glasses and 6 towels???
http://www.alternet.org/story/10935/“A spokesman at Andrews Air Force Base, where Air Force One is maintained, said that the only things missing after the Clinton’s last flight were 15 glasses and 6 hand towels. Total value: about $140. “The allegations of missing china and silverware during the Jan. 20, 2001, flight are incorrect.”
“So you DO want us to lose there Clarkie?”
Dang, Ass, that one is so fresh out of Rush O’Hannity’s ass that it is still gooey.
Can’t you come up with something better than that?
Hey cosmos – quit confusing ASS with facts. They interfere with his drugged rants.
Very slowly for all the left winger America haters and Clarkie:
The Islamic facists are the problem. THEY are killing their own people. THEY are choosing to plant bombs and kill innocent people, not the US military, not the US Government and not the US President.
The Islamic Facists are the worldwide problem, has been since the middle 1990’s.
Yet we are falling into the same slumber that invites slaughter of our citizens on our soil, that slumber is complacnecy. The opposite of vigilance. There are bigger things here that political parties and elections going on here. ANd schrill LEftwinger Anti Americans are the ones that do not get it.
The pullout is NOT going to happen. It would cost the Democratic Party the White House. The MAJORITY of Americans are not for an immediate pullout 67%. The majority of Americans think that Iraq and the outcome is important to our country is 68%. The Amount of Americans that believe the “Resolution” put forward by the Senate Democrats is providing comfort to the enemy and undermines our troops… 71%.
Those are the numbers clarkie!
Do you want America to win,…. or do you want us to lose. SAME QUESTION that got me banned for a little while.
I sat in the penalty box by excercising “Free speech” in a left leaning blog. The so called party of “tolerance” is only “tolerant” when you agree with them.
Real GOod there Clarkie BOY, your link to Alternet.org. That is a really unbiased place to get information. You are an idiot and you need no help in making yourself look stupid.
In the “about US section” on the site states this:
“II. The Challenge We Address
The right-wing media machine: Virtually everyone who has a stake in our political future agrees that when compared to the radical conservatives and the religious fundamentalists, the progressive sector lacks media capacity. The scope of conservative media is vast, including Fox News, Sinclair, major right-wing talk radio market penetration, many newspapers, a fast-growing religious broadcasting system, and sophisticated use of the Internet and new technologies. The ability of the right-wing media apparatus to dominate public discourse is at the expense of liberal and progressive values and represents a fundamental transformation in American politics. This is what we are fighting against.
The negative impact of right-wing media:”
Please quote your source for those numbers.
“Real GOod there Clarkie BOY, your link to Alternet.org”
Actually, that was not my link there, Ass, but nice try anyway. I do not disagree with the link, but reading comprehension is obviously not your strong suit.
Gallup Poll. GO look for yourself, as I do not post links to idealouges as they do not get it and do not read them. You look at Clarkie, and he posts from an ADMITTED anti Right wing organization.
So do not patronize me with the facts and “prove it to me tripe.
It is all posturing BS.
Seems as if the WEBlog has tossed all the Real Americans from the blog here. Do not like an opposing voice to the liberals habitating this place of lies and misinformation, I suppose. Only people on here are ones that use personal attack from the start and are lefties.
You do the math and come to your own conclusions. BUt unbiased you are not, and you are not looking out for the best for America with the anti US politics.
Hmmmmm, again, that was not my link, Ass, but nice try anyway.
The fact that you have spent your life screwing the pooch, Asbestos, does not make you a dog breeder.
Nice try Ass. I already put into my search some of your terms, and came up flat.
I think you just lied.
YOu just proved my post above yours. Thank you Clarkie
Jeez, Ass, is English your first language?
Can you TRY to interpret your rants for us?
Really.
well I guess if “political mom” could not find it with her super duper powers and a 5 minute seardh, it must not exist, therefor the republican is lying, that it P mom.
Left wing yahoo, biased political hack.
‘Gallup: Americans Back Congressional Resolution Against Iraq ‘Surge’ — And Withdrawal Within a Year’http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003532744“Support for such a resolution is strong, with 61% backing that.”
Yeah that’s way different than what Ass is trying to say huh?
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
Sorry I posted numbers from a Fox NEws Poll and I knew you would not accept that so here is the opinion dynamics poll.
Read it carefully, llok at how many want us to stay until we are done. That is the majority.
Jeez, Ass, if you read the poll results, they don’t look real good for your super duper hero, George W Bush.
Actually, if you are a Bushie, the poll results kind of suck.
But, what the hell, YOUR president doesn’t give a good god damn about what the American people think.
Guess you only looked at things that supported your position di d you? Kind of like the NIE that has come out stating that a pullout would result in a bloodbath for Iraqi’s. That what you want.
You want a couple million Iraqi’s to be slaughtered so you can feel good about hating Bush? That is what you and the liberals and the Democratic Seantors trying to tell me? You are comfortable with millions getting killed,.. to support your hatered and political bias.
Shallow, very Shallow? We are keeping more alive by us being there, than by what you want, … our leaving.
Damn, Asbestos, can you send someone over to HELP me read your posts?
I don’t have a clue as to what you are trying to say.
A poll of the Iraqi people indicates that they overwhelmingly want us to LEAVE right f*cking now!
So, tell me again, why do we NEED to stay?
Let me be REAL direct, Asbestos.
In plain English, tell me why it is the responsibility of the American people to pay for, in lives and treasure, for the future of the Iraqi’s?
Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
Saddam had nothing to do with al Qaeda.
Saddam was no threat to Amercia.
Saddam was a paper tiger.
Saddam did not possess WMD.
So why did 3,097 Americans have to die?
So why are we spending $677 billion for this war?
So why has your president repeatedly call Iraq the central front in the war on terror, even though, before the war, Iraq had not a god damned thing to do with al Qaeda?
Let me just throw these questions out there….
Would you be willing to sacrifice one of your children for the Iraqi’s?
Would you be willing to ask one of your own to die for the Iraqi’s?
Would you give your life for the Iraqi’s?
Would you be willing to mortgage your future for the Iraqi’s?
Would you be willing to bankrupt your future for the Iraqi’s?
Would you give up your life so that Saddam Hussein could be hung?
If the answer to any of those questions is “NO” then why would you expect the rest of America to answer “YES?”
All these questions from someone too lazy to do research that isn’t within reach of a Google button.
Too bad you wasted time typing all of that, no one will answer the questions because no one respects you on this blog. (smile)
Well, Eier, let’s take a poll….
Those that respect me.
and
Those that respect you.
I’ll start for you…. Fleet, Gee Sure, Nutz, Hank and Nathan respect you.
Okay, now my turn….
I don’t care you see, that’s the difference.
You just think those people respect you. They would desert you in a heartbeat, the same way they deserted the troops while they are at war.
BTW – Ass, I notice that YOU didn’t bother to answer the questions.
Perhaps we could sacrifice YOU for the sake of the Iraqi’s.
Maybe we could sacrifice your children for the Iraqi’s?
What do you say?
I don’t see too many that respect DA on here. He’s a dope smoker and tends to go waaaaaaay off the deep end when he’s stoned.
Homer Griffin Arafat – Fat guy with a bad beard and bad breath.
And generally can’t make a point without layers and layers of profanity.
You can be against the war. That’s fine. It’s a political stance that people take.
But Demogoging the war and politicizing the troops and using them as a ping pong is just unrelenting and disgusting, but not surprising. I accuse many of the Democrat Politicans of this.
They could care less about Iraqis or the death of Soliders. They only care about gaining political power, making Bush and Republicans look bad for the sake of gaining political power and they undermine the war effort to try to force a loss for the sake of gaining political power.
They are wrong! Very Wrong!
….and folks laughed their butts off when the REAL Nutz showed up.
Big gut, big attitude and big (smell it from 100 yards) breath.
That describes the Golfer.
Oh, yeah, a big bullshiter, also.
Yep, you are right, Joe. I could care less about the Iraqi’s.
There is not a SINGLE Iraqi that is worth ONE American life.
Not one.
What have the Iraqi’s done to earn our sacrifice?
My country comes first, Joe.
My country is America and Americans come before Iraqi’s.
Would you die for an Iraqi, Joe?
Looks like you were right about the profanity KSGolfnut.
WSClark from what I seen, cause people vulgar names (like Asbestos.)
He doesn’t use their screen names, typical of a flaming liberal.
He acts like someone with no self-confidence. I bet he got picked on a lot when he was a kid.
Too bad he never fully matured as an adult. Lots of these types of people end up in institutions so they won’t be a danger to the public.
If it meant saving the future of America. You’re right I would.
I wonder if you would like to say that to a WWII Vet. Tell him that you think his comrades who died in that war died for a German! Died for a Brit! Died for the French! Died for a Japanese! Died for a Chinese! Died for a Filipino! And since they did! Their deaths was in vien and doesn’t amount to shit! Because they died for some foreigner.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt for being an angry leftist WS! But now I think you’re just an asshole!
Nice try, Joe. My father is a WWII vet and I do appreciate what ALL of the WWII vets have done.
But how does the War on Iraq have to do with WWII?
Don’t even try to degrade the sacrifice of the vets from WWII with a comparison to the the War on Iraq.
The Nazi’s and Imperial Japan were DIRECT threats to the USA – Iraq, as admitted by Bush and Cheney, was NO threat to the US.
Iraq NEVER threatened the US.
Japan, and by extension, her Nazi ally, attacked the USA.
There is a hell of a lot of diference, Joe, and you degrade the sacrifice of EVERY American vet from WWII with your attitude.
Eier, golfnuts, and Joe Williams,
Please explain ASBESTOS’ poll #’s in his post,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/02/who_is_to_blame.html#comment-28904004
which ASBESTOS later falsely claimed came from “a Fox NEws Poll”.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/02/who_is_to_blame.html#comment-28904831
If you cannot, then crawl back under the rock ASBESTOS is hiding under.
Asbestos and I have an agreement, Eier. Since we have had several encounters, he can call me by my first name, William.
And I can call him by his first name, Ass.
So, what’s the prob?
Eier is absolutely JM.
He’s bitching and moaning about the very same BS non-issues that JM did in the very same language.
Give thinking people everywhere a break and go back to Mississippi.
You are out of your mind Ass! I knew you didn’t get those numbers from anything- you liar.
And you’ve been busted for pulling facts out of thin air.
Did JM say he was black?
I’m wondering black ex military guy with a Jewish wife?
Yeah, it’s possible, but you don’t see that everyday . . .
By the way, JM, you never said how you were enjoying your taxpayer funded pension, you know, they one you don’t think anyone else deserves . . .
Cartoon Boy,
Where on earth do you get your ideas from?
What is a JM? Joke Monster? Jam Master?
The Liberals on this blog are quite paranoid.
You have something against Blacks Cartoon Boy? You keep bringing it up like it is supposed to make a difference in the discussion.
Eier, that is some funny shit, boy!!! That comedy routine is da bomb!!!!
Funny, funny, funny!!!!
How did you perfect that act – playing a stupid, half-witted, bigoted, misinformed, willfully ignorant two faced reich wing bastard?
Funny stuff, Eier!!!!
What are you smoking now WSClark?
Think I’ll call my friends tomorrow at Type Key and ask who Cartoon Boy is.
Liberals on this blog are really weird people.
Eier,Liberals are just weird people.
The end.
“The Liberals on this blog are quite paranoid.”
One must have fear to be paranoid.
“Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others”
Wanna talk paranoid? All I hear from the right is that Islam is out to get us, and we’re going to be attacked again–9/11 was only a test.
They fear the truth and will call anyone who asks for proof a traitor.
So who’s paranoid?
“You have something against Blacks Cartoon Boy? You keep bringing it up like it is supposed to make a difference in the discussion.”
Liberals and Democrats can marganilize blacks because the “Care more”. It is the worst, and the idiot whom posted that needs to shut up.
Again for the slow idiots, it is the IRAQI insurgents and terrorists that is causing the civil war, NOT THE US!!!
And for a slow ASS, the foreign fighters in Iraq are US fighters. If this country were invaded and occupied would you just acquiesce to their occupation?
Good one HAHA, it shows liberal and your ANTI American bent:
“And for a slow ASS, the foreign fighters in Iraq are US fighters. If this country were invaded and occupied would you just acquiesce to their occupation?”
We are fighting FOR IRAQI’s, the Foreign fightere in Iraq, are wanting death and destruction and DEMOCRACY TO FAIL!! What, you don’t want democracy for Iraq? These people in your mind are too low for democracy? For a liberal that is an inconsistent argument.
For that matter, has anyone seen “Bob” lately? Perhaps, as a trained propagandist, he is in the bunker with Dick, writing his material.”
No I do not believe he is, Bob was funny when he spoke, Cheney just seems pitiful in his attempt to sound upbeat.
“We are fighting FOR IRAQI’s”
The IRAQI’s sure don’t seem to think so. It is the IRAQI’s who are fighting against us; not other “foreign fighters”. Your refusal to see reality shows you to be the REAL anti-American.