The question of what WaterWalk lost when Bass Pro Shops took a pass on the riverfront development has cropped up in the mayoral campaign, with challenger Carl Brewer blaming Mayor Carlos Mayans for trying to renegotiate the deal himself and Mayans pointing to the too-slow approval of Bass Pro’s desired financing mechanism, STAR bonds. Some will see revisiting this issue as pointless and reflecting badly on the runner-up retailer, Gander Mountain. But this Kansas City Star story, about today’s opening of Olathe’s Bass Pro, suggests otherwise. In St. Louis, shoppers lined the block a day early, waiting for the doors to open on a Bass Pro that’s now a major Missouri tourist attraction. “In Macon, Ga., they parked on the highway and climbed a 20-foot dirt embankment,” the story goes. Olathe police have added 14 officers to handle the opening of the 110,000-square-feet, $268 million store, which features a re-created stagecoach stop; outdoor scenes depicting a prairie dog town, a bison herd and Canada geese; and painted maps of Kansas’ hiking trails, camping sites and waterways; as well as a fish restaurant surrounded by a 3-acre lake.
Oh, and the Kansas City area will get a second Bass Pro store next year, in Independence, Mo.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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39 Comments
The “water walk area” should have been the site for a new convention center (not an arena) near the Arkansas River. The whole situation is so screwed up now with $250,000,000.19 of taxpayers money going for the unwanted, unneeded, no user in sight, white elephant ice hockey (but no guarantee that ice hockey will be played there) downtown arena.
The arena is courtesy of a few out of towners who think they know what’s best for Sedgwick County and Wichita taxpayers.
JWink…
I could only agree with adding onto CII IF some MAJOR parking issues were addressed… Yes, LD Stadium is across the street but entrance side parking is still a must for ever increasing elderly.
But in concept I agree… Just like in concept I agreeded we needed a Convention Center & Arena facility. I very much disagree with the “Arena” we are stuck with.
I dare say you will find twice as many cars (trucks, actually) in the parking lot at Sportsman’s Warehouse on the east side of town (easy to access with a good location for hunters and El Dorado Lake enthusiasts) than at Gander Mountain. Let’s be honest: What sportsman wants to go DOWNTOWN Wichita for his fish hooks?
The problem with Carl Brewer complaining now is the fact that he didn’t support the STAR bonds in the beginning either. Mr. Brewer once explained to me that the public works downtown are not intended for the Wichita public, but for tourists. The parking issue for the arena falls in this too, as the only anticipated customers of the facility will be those staying in downtown hotels. At least the whole thing fits in the agenda as explained to me.
That tattered “CLEARANCE” banner on the side of Gander Mountain just adds to its derelict look. And, as a river enthusiast, I am really irritated at the ugly facade they have facing OUR RIVER.
Last night I attended a business function in the Waterfront. That development is full and thriving. I know of businesses downtown that had hoped to get new office space downtown who are scrambling to find it elsewhere since the WaterWalk has foundered so badly.
Face it politicians; this boondoggle has been a massive failure. The only involvement the City should have in such development should be as facilitator and infrastructure. NOT the actual development.
Just as an aside, is the state of Kansas anti-bass? hehehehehe
Cedar Bluff hosted one of the top five bass tournaments in the nation. The folks who run the lake have had to LIMIT the number of bass tournaments at Cedar Bluff to two per weekend because the Colorado Bass Club wanted to host their club tournament there. The Oklahoma Bass Club had their club tournament there. People from seven states have participated in tournaments at Cedar Bluff.
Too bad, the tourism dollars generated by Cedar Bluff are desperately needed in western kansas, and they create FAR MORE jobs than the coal fired plant EVER will create. The state spends MILLIONS promoting outdoor tourism, and then…
Mike Hayden, Joe Harkins, and governor leadership conspire with Hays and Russell to drain the lake. Complete with closed meetings and secret contracts. With the head of the water office being fired at the request of Eber Phelps and Janis Lee.
SO… those outdoor tourism dollars dont mean shit next to feeding water to the Russell ethanol plant? And letting Hays drain the Smokey basin under the cover of “Russell needs the water for ethanol production”?
Jesus wept. Along with several THOUSAND bass fishermen, and the businesses that serve them.
Oh, and did I mention that ESPN covered the national qualifiying bass tournament at Cedar Bluff? You think THAT didnt give an economic boost to this region?
People in kansas always piss, moan, bitch and sigh about the negative national media coverage given to Kansas. This big media coverage was important not only to Cedar Bluff and western kansas, but to the entire state.
And where was Mike Hayden during this national bass tournament covered by ESPN? Sitting in his office in Topeka. He didnt even give enough of a rat’s ass to show up at one of the most important outdoor sporting events ever held in kansas. I guess he was monitoring the flow of water OUT of the lake that HE ordered.
“You have world class bass fishing here in KANSAS?” Was the most asked question following the national bass qualifying tournament. “We’ll definately be back” was the second most heard comment.
But… all that good publicity, all those tourism dollars, and all that good will towards kansas is going right down the drain with the water in Cedar Bluff. The bass fishermen signed petitions and gave money to save the lake, but it was all ignored.
’cause ya know, kansas just doesnt have enough water sucking ethanol plants yet.
Be sure to thank governor leadership, parks and wildlife, and the kansas water office.
Sorry for the rants. Bass fishing is one of the fastest growing outdoor sports. But in Kansas? Not so much. I’m not surprised that Wichita dissed the bass shop and went with something else.
I guess in this state we are always destined to swim upstream against any trends….
farmgrrl
I thought this state just walked backwards???
This whole Bass Pro thing is interesting, Bass Pro themselves said they had no intention to move to ICT. They heard the presentation by the WW group and said thanks but no thanks. The WW group kept harassing them and even leaked to the media that BPS was comming. BPS again said they wernt comming. THATS when Carlos came into the picture as the new mayor and Tom Johnson @ WW and Ed Wolverton @ WDDC asked Carlos to call BP, which he did with no success. They NEVER called back anyone here in ICT.
Oh and something else about the WW proposal to BPS, it wasnt big enough. Anyone who has been to a BPS knows that their facilities are as big as the entire WW complex would have been.
Bottom line, BPS was never coming to ICT and probally never will. I could see them ending up in Park City or El Dorado or maybe Andover/Agusta area…
The tag line for all of Wichita’s projects is ” … what might have been.” So what’s new here?
Tony,
The thing is, from what I have heard from people in Springfield, MO (Bass Pro HQ, FYI) is that Bass Pro WANTED to come here – they just wanted a better deal than ICT was willing to offer. ICT is their IDEAL base per their business model – and that store would have had GREAT success here – highly unlikely now that we will ever get one in the area, what with the opening in Olathe, though… Having worked at the airport, I can tell you that hundreds, possibly even thousands, of hunters and fishers fly into ICT annually to take advantage of our wide open spaces – and they would gobble up the chance to shop at Bass Pro. Not to mention the residents using the facilities… Instead, we give tax breaks to a company who was operating in the red at the time… We should have AGGRESSIVELY pursued Bass Pro instead of giving token efforts – there are many places in Wichita they could have gone besides for the Waterwalk – and they would have been a GREAT asset to this city…
Wendy,
Than why was it Bass Pro never called back Carlos or Ed or Tom or others????
I think Wendy is right – but so is Tony. Bass wanted to ocme to Wichita – we are a large enough market and strategically located. However, they did NOT want to come to WaterWalk and did NOT want to deal with Johnson or Wolverton.
Consider sites alone east or west Kellogg or maybe I-135.
Tony,
I would be willing to bet that those men called ONE time and left ONE message and then gave up. Bass Pro is a HUGE company, and you have to make more effort than that. I have personally dealt with their HQ several times, and I am aware of how busy they are and how difficult it is to get a hold of people. The other issue may have been, are we SURE that they had the right contact person???? If you are leaving a message for someone who has absolutely nothing to do with whatever your message is about, chances are high that NO you are not going to get a call back….
Cabela’s had a lot to do with Wichita not getting a Bass Pro Shop at the time. Wyandotte County conspiracy with Topeka to change how Star Bonds benefited them constructing buildings, but Wichita couldn’t use that process anymore.
Was it $25 Million dollars or something in that range.
Maybe someday, a nearby community will get one, Salina, out near Cheney, in Hutchinson.
Park City will whine for one to be placed at the Coliseum location if County tears it down and gives the land to them.
Out near Lake Afton
Wichita has more considerations to worry about in the meantime.
No one can tell me, sports is less important than hunting. Numbers of sports fans traveling through airports greatly outnumbers travelers just to visit a Bass Pro Shop.
When we get our sports gathering collective power someday, going to WSU sports, including football.
Minor League baseball at Lawrence- Dumont. Hockey in greater numbers at the downtown arena.
High Schools with sports facilities fixed on their individual campus. Their championships in basketball, wrestling, volleyball at the downtown arena. A new football stadium for high schools and another WSU football.
When our community is functioning in other ways besides wanting to visit a Bass Pro Shop.
We have always had weak leadership in Topeka. The recent casino possible legislation is evidence. We can be denied improvements if its only left to a choice by the County or City governments. We have to vote making things happen in Topeka to benefit Wichita and that’s wrong.
It takes too long between election cycles for change in this community. Other counties can rally business and politics to make things happen faster.
—–
Looks to me like all of the people involved have some explaining to do. Wichita is about the same size as Macon GA. I suspect that if our downtown people (or other city leaders) had been on the ball they might not have dropped it.
I didn’t see any need for extra cops to direct traffic for Gander Mountain!
By the way … for some information about GMTN:
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/stocknet/Snapshot.aspx?Country=USA&Symbol=GMTN&stocktab=snapshot&pgid=qtqnnavsnapshot
Everything that I’ve been told by elected city officials is that Bass Pro was a done deal until Mayans came on board and started to make demands. Because the Bass Pro deal fell, Foulston & Seifkin headed to the Waterfront taking Commerce Bank along with them. Waterfront has flourished at the expense of Water Walk and Mayans is to blame.
This is clearly an example of why the city should stay the H out of trying to be in business. One flourishes while another is mired in political garbage a mile deep.
“Anyone who has been to a BPS knows that their facilities are as big as the entire WW complex would have been.”
That would have been wonderful! An entire complex running from Kellogg to the BoatHouse. Then just add a nice restaurant at the BoatHouse.
Of course, then there would be any reason for the taxpayers to be paying Johnson to oversee WaterWalk. Then again, just what is WaterWalk anyway? I haven’t seen a whole lot of commercial development there. Are the taxpayers getting anything for all our money?
BTW, Ben, your information is incorrect. Bass Pro wanted to be at Water Walk. Furthermore, Bass Pro was not negotiating a real estate contract with Ed Wolverton. He doesn’t have an ownership interest in the deal.
Ben, I’m beginning to think that you’re just a sock for Mayans. You obviously know nothing about the arrangement between the Water Walk developers and the city.
Then who dropped them? Why are they not there? Is Tony correct that they would have needed the entire site? If so, why not give it to them?
I never said Ed had an ownership interest; just that he was involved. If I am correct, I am the owner of the land (as a Wichita resident).
“Ralph, I’m beginning to think that you’re just a sock for Wolverton.”
Since you are the expert fill us in. Why is this thing foundering?
By the way – I am NOT supporting Mayans.
Or maybe you are a sock for Brewer?
Ralph – on this we agree “This is clearly an example of why the city should stay the H out of trying to be in business.”
That is why I opposed the City entering the deal in the first place – BEFORE Mayans was mayor.
Has anyone seen Brewer’s commercial? Can the guy be more robotic in a tight suit.
The lady voice over about him is cheesy.
WaterWalk should be something eventually. I’m remembering not liking the Bass Pro Shop rumors.
Cabela’s didn’t like it either, threatened to sue back then. Conspiracy to change Star Bonds process is what they wanted.
How they are handling Olathe having a Bass Pro Shop, I don’t know. Today, nothing could stop them. I don’t know how that BPS was funded with public money.
I’d like a $200 Million dollar casino for Wichita, downtown. Let BPS do one in another community outside this county. This region of Kansas and Gander Mountain could handle it.
Or Gander Mountain leaves town, who knows.
To me, its not worth the public investment BPS wants.
Mrage – I hope you are able t get the backing you need for your ideas. At least you are talking capitalism instead of communism.
Ben,
No Tony is not correct. BPS did not need the entire site.
No, I am not privy to all the details, but I have been told enough by council members and others who are directly involved with the project to know the challenges the project faces. Most of it is complicated in that you have a public/private partnership. On the private side, decisions can be made quickly. On the public side, seldom if ever.
I was not a supporter of the original deal either. I thought that the city should have sold the land to them, but FCM Cherches wanted to control the land and dictate how it was developed. On that, he and I didn’t agree, but then he never asked me for my opinion.
As for our friend Ed, good bureaucrat, but that’s all he is. He has no role in WW and is limited in his ability to lobby city hall.
As for Brewer, he’s the best of the 8 candidates and will make a good mayor. Maybe he is a little stiff sometimes, but d*mn, how many of you are comfortable standing in the limelight and putting yourself on the line to be criticized?
Ralph,
Let Brewer take the public commentary, its part of the job. I blamed his stiff ways on the advertising company. Who directed that spot. Get his money back.
I’ve never met the guy to gauge his stiff ways personally. I do know how life is in the County and City buildings. Its stiff in there to talk with some people.
If he wins the Mayor seat, his stiffness on WSU football conversation has to break, because its an economic reality for this community in the near future. Mayan’s plan was wrong, but any process that brings back D1 football at WSU is good speculation news at 6.
He was wrong to waste time restricting the Mayor’s chair to not comment on the process.
Should it be held against him in the future, a Mayor last to know.
The first conversation about WSU football is with the County gov anyway. The stadium for WSU football affects where “dirt” shows go from the closing Coliseum. County will probably own land under the stadium.
I have no favorites for Mayor at this time. Who’s the best representative for Wichita, the citizens who make our governments perform. The one who will cut red tape. Mayans and Brewer are both part of that problem.County is the group to make the choice if we can vote for a Casino.
Brewer and the city council, I could stand before to discuss a stadium placed downtown for city league sports. I need TIF bond financing to clear land for that.It’s probably going to become some kind of business/city gov partnership.
No matter who is Mayor, this is going to happen.
No, I never have to discuss anything with Ed. Its not part of their downtown boundaries.
“As for Brewer, he’s the best of the 8 candidates and will make a good mayor.”
Yea, NOT… I put him at the same level as Carlos right now…
There are two other guys, Darrell Leffew & James Mendenhall that i would put ontop of both of them…
Hell, the crazy guy King David Davis who is banned from the Lords Dinner and City Hall is better than those two.
They at least have some real ideas, not running on someone else’s coat tales or their reputations…
To each his own; however, I have a personal relationship with the majority of the candidates. Leffew would be a good mayor; however, Brewer is by far the best candidate. Mayans had his chance and he’s shown that he’s not mayor material.
Well, we will find out about Brewer soon enough. He will win the elction so will be mayor this spring. “Ralph”; I hope you are correct; especially since you seem to be a sock for him.
A comment about Brewer and WW: he seems to be strongly supported by the same people who were behind getting the City involved in that bar/restaruant/entertainment district in the first place. Since that whole thing seems to be WW’s biggest problem how does Brewer represent a new direction?
As for “putting yourself on the line to be criticized?” that goes with the territory; just as it does here for those of us who do not hide behind pseudonyms.
Mrage – while I am a skeptic concerning your stadium idea I do have a location for you: west side of the Canal Route near 21st St. Use EPA Brownfields funds to help assemble and clear the properties.
Casino – I still tend to lean toward downtown – maybe that is what the WW should mutate into next.
As i have been saying for a few years now. The best place in ICT for a Casino would be the Broadview Hotel.
Add on to the North of the Hotel, expand the parking garage across the street and possibly even take out the church to the north of that…
I bet the new complex would even re-hab the river walk idea incorporating nice views out of the hotel/casino onto the river.
Tony – when you say “river walk” are you referring to the walkways along the river or are you talking about WaterWalk?
Ben,
I’m refering to the walkways along the river… wouldnt it be nice to have more nice area that could open up from the lower levels of the hotel onto the river?
maybe even have a hotel owned dock? offer pattle boating for guests? i mean the possibilities are endless.
OK. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page. Yes, it would be good to have a more open riverfront there – not sure how with their parking to the west of the hotel. Perhaps if they can go north for parking – or across the steet.
You are right about possibilities. we need to be focusing more in the River throughout downtown. Definitely NOT what the WaterWalk developers did with Gander Mountain with it’s blank back to the river.
Another stretch of River I am interested in right now is between Kellogg and Herman Hill park. Access, walkways, lighting. Add a pedestrian bridge across from herman Hill park. Not a huge investment but a nice addition.
Ben,
I’m skeptical of that location!
Forget my stadium idea for a moment, what else do think might go on that site? Would you put a mall there, chain of stores?
Describe ease of using EPA funds.
Sounds toxic!
A location of my choosing has been picked out for the stadium. It hasn’t been agreed to by future partners, so I can’t announce it.
I’m desiring a particular process, placing redevelopment money into more property owner hands.
Dispersion among more people adds to growth in a variety of ways in this community.
It’s just not building the stadium on available land, it has to be the right location and a community beneficial process.
Any of a number of commercial or industrial uses could work there. The idea is to clear the area and then build on top. Kansas City has done it a lot. Remember; the contamination is subsurface, as long as we don’t have basements we can manage it.
Brownfields is one mission of the EPA today. The idea is to get properties inside cities back into use and generating tax revenues.
What else might go there? How about an Arena? The idea I had once liked was for a joint venture Wichita/WSU for one that would be home to Shocker b-ball as well as other things. Most of the Arenas that have worked in mid-sized cities have a University involved.
Ben,
The Broadview hotel owns the parking garage to the EAST of it (north of the chamber building).
The parking lot to the north of the Broadview would become the new casino and multi story hotel addition to the original Broadview.
As for your Herman Hill park idea, that would be a neat plan… I would like to see a few more pedestrian bridges over the river. Something a bit more scaled down than the ones connecting Exploitation place with the Indian center and the east bank… Those are ugly.
Maybe an indoor arena practice facility and for other uses possibly, WSU football team.
I haven’t chosen where the practice facilities will be. The best football universities have indoor football fields.
I have no estimates how much that would cost. What events could be there. Similar place that Wink wants to build in Park City.
A multi-useful small arena, 5000 seats.
Can a brownfield lot have grass fields to practice on? If no toxic readings come from the ground, maybe.
Tony – check the ‘red bridge’ near Riberside Hospital. Definitely NOT those ‘things’ near the confluence. Didn’t realized Broadview owned that – good. Should allow for the area to the west to be cleared out and opened up.
Mrage – no problem with grass fields. Those are done pretty routinely now.