How bad is the deferred maintenance problem at Kansas universities? In the middle of an organic chemistry class last week at the University of Kansas, a brown stain appeared on the ceiling and began dripping.
Turns out an old drainpipe had burst, leaking human sewage, according to a Lawrence Journal-World article. The classroom had to be evacuated. At least students got a hands-off lesson in organic chemistry.
Here are some more horror stories about crumbling campuses.
Critics are lambasting the governor’s toll-road hike to pay for such repairs, but what are their ideas? Bloggers’ ideas?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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48 Comments
I spend around $5,000.00 on gasoline every year, most of that money is spent right here in Kansas.I also have a K-Tag, I use the Turnpike rather frequently.I think that the Kansas Turnpike folks do a wonderful job, at every level.However, I can’t help feeling like the Kansas Toll Road is a slap in the face to Wichita.It is time to get rid of the Turnpike toll, as was promised when the thing was built in the first place!Think about it.What city depends the most on the Kansas Turnpike?Wichita!The people in Kansas City can easily avoid the toll, by taking 10 or 24 West to Topeka or 35 Southwest to Emporia.The people in Topeka can likewise go East to Kansas City without using the Turnpike, if they want to.It is also rather easy, and not too long a detour, to take 75 South from Topeka to “no toll” 35, then take 35 through Emporia all the way to Wichita.For those of us in Wichita, going to Topeka or KC without using the Turnpike is just not worth the extra gasoline and time.Same with going from Wichita South to Oklahoma.The rest of the State seems far less dependent on the Kansas Turnpike than Wichita.I am guessing that Wichita has a disproporionate use of the Kansas Turnpike, compared to the rest of the Kansas population.We would therefore pay a disproportionate share of the burden for this rather odd tax.What is next?If our Turnpike and Highways deteriorate, can we place a tax on the pay of College professors to pay for our highways?How about an additional sales tax on newspapers?Lol, gosh, these unfair taxes can be fun if you target the right groups of people!
Obviously, the folks in Topeka would pay the toll from Emporia to Wichita, but many do head South on 75 first, to 35, to reduce the toll.
The turnpike toll, which was promised to go away 30 years ago, will go away when the arena tax does … not in our lifetimes, Paul.
Suggestion, Randy? Hold the inept management responsible — statute of limitations often begins upon discovery of the wrongdoing, not at the time the wrong doing actually occurred … !
Randy, let’s just let the Kansas Supreme Court handle it. Levying taxes is their hobby, something they can do when they get bored with their constitutional duties. I hear this year they might even take up minting currency and raising a standing army. Or they could try knitting.
Perhaps the universities should pump more money into their academic facilities – instead of their athletic facilities.
Just a thought.
What’s more important? Where a student learns? Or where he shoots hoops?
“Perhaps the universities should pump more money into their academic facilities – instead of their athletic facilities.
Just a thought.”
Wow, GS, deju vu. WSU, 80’s, paying for the dead football team, and more. You got it.
It’s not that simple, of course, but we at least agree on that much.
University desperately need their sports and with TV contracts, more infusion of cash from that source the better.
Rage, if WSU was in the Big 8 back then, with Nebraska, Oklahoma fans coming in masses to save them at the gate for those games, WSU would still have a football team today, same as K-State.
With the right funding partnership between business, govs county and city, TV contracts, marketing, WSU can have football paid for in the future and not have stadium costs on their budgets.
In other words, football will not take from other programs on campus.
Athletes go on to do surgery, create structures, industrial managers, lawyers, Supreme Court, any court and sports administration so the process continues on and on.
Sports are worth college students to play, their ability getting into college and affording it.
Fixing up buildings on all college campus has been a political dropped ball in Topeka for decades.
How to fix it, Topeka has be genius, coach a way to fix the problem. Call a game plan, form a team. Rally, fight and sweat.
Those former college athletes who are politicians today, should find it a familar process and could make a difference.
It’s a game that hasn’t been played for a long time in Topeka, funding college building improvements. Some have to be the cheerleaders too.
Probably from the basketball locker room as they are full of ….
I have owned a house for years and one thing I know is that if you don’t schedule regular maintenance and do it relegiously – in the end you will pay and pay and pay. That is where we are today with state institutions. The real problem hasn’t been addressed and probably never will be. It is much less expensive to do a little at a time than to have it all hit the fan at the same time. The toll road is just a way to keep from facing the real issue.
Truckers have the option of going around Kansas and this is what will probably happen if tolls continue to escalate.
Taxes in Kansas are currently high enough that we don’t need to raise them we just need the courts to keep their noses out of the budgeting business. Then we need those elected representatives to take care of the constitutents who elected them. Wichita is being unfairly targeted just as we were treated with two rate structures on electric fees a few years ago.
Higher toll rates are just a part of the problem. The largest metopolitan area in Kansas has two lane roads the east and west of us. A safety issue and now this slap in the face.
Maybe Sebelius needs to look at the tax base that comes from the Wichita area before making such an ill thought out plan.
HAs anyone thought of selling some form of bonds to fix our universities. That would be a lot better than raising tolls or taxes.
Here’s a question; what do the record tuition increases, and the record high prices on text books go for? If you have kids in college you know what I mean, $300 for a new Algebra text, use it one semester and get ten cents on the dollar when you sell the book back. Try to buy that book back for 30 bucks, someone’s making money… The tuition is what, $120 to $150 and hour, with annual increases of 5 to 15%.
Perhaps or state intuitions of higher learning should place the management of their Universities under the auspices of their business colleges. What can you expect from a bunch of liberal academics? Maybe if they ran their schools like they were businesses they wouldn’t be standing there with their hands out. I’m betting the business school could at least develop a budget with money allocated for the up keep of the infrastructure.
All I can say is enough, your supposed to be smart people, you figure it out and say the hell out of our tax dollars.
Oh and note to Governor, No More New Taxes…user or otherwise.
Bonds are a form of debt. Just longer term with fixed payback rates and dates. Not sure how this would fit into the balanced budget Kansas is supposed to have. It would be a good idea as far as I am concerned. I remember faintly some years back when Orange County in CA had several bonds become payable at the same time and they were looking at taking bankruptsy because they didn’t have the money to buy them back.
Dropping sports from most colleges would not be the answer. The big sports, basketball and football, generate revenue for many colleges. The better the team, the more revenue.
The fact of the matter is taxes should be raised. But at the same time, make taxes equitable, i.e., The rich should be paying more by dropping many of the tax shelters, etc..
Toll road prices will never go away; we will always be paying for repair, and the only logical way to pay for it is by toll. Raising the cost of the toll is a bad idea. When will the increases stop if allowed to go through?
As much as I would hate to see it a user tax would be a much fairer way to tax. Unless you own a home and pay property taxes you get off lightly with only sales tax and the tax you pay to tag a car. Taxing businesses to me isn’t the answer. If we start taxing corporations the big companies just pass it along to us consumers and the small businesses are unable to stay in business because the overhead eats up any profits they are making.
Looking at our entire tax structure and overhauling it to fit todays world might be an idea whose time has come.
What others have already written about preventive maintenance. Why haven’t the Universities sent in preventive maintenance proposals on a regular basis?
Perhaps the University of Kansas could use some of their one billion dollar endowment fund instead of paying for professors that walk around with a sash across their chest that do nothing but look and act wise.
Maybe Kansas Universities should hire professional Plant Managers that insist as part of their contract that funds be provided for maintenance and re-construction projects.
Perhaps the Engineering/Architect Departments of Universities could formulate plans of re-construction saving outside architectural and drafting costs.
Perhaps Kansas Universities could start running the campus like a business instead of a street corner pencil seller with a handout for funds.
BobR as long as the taxpayers are there as their safety nets they have no incentive to do otherwise. We taxpayers need to dig in our heels and say enough.
well if (when) this happens.. no more turnip pike for me…. remember the 3 dollars for parking at the colleseum, well guess what we didn’t go to the last month..flea marketI’m sure the turnpike will not miss my 2 bucks a day .
As I have mentioned before, I went to the University of Texas. They are always in the process building, expanding, and renovating. Even the 150 year-old buildings have excellent plumbing and a PC, a Mac, a projector, and a digital overhead in EVERY room.
This just sounds like mismanagement to me, and they (the management) are blaming it on their funding. If it really is just a funding problem, Kansas needs to get their ducks in a line. There is NO excuse for shit in a classroom. Figuratively or literally.
As for books, buy and sell them on Amazon. That’s what I did, and I saved a lot of money… except on the old-editions of course…jeez.
Andrew you are right about mismangement but have you heard a word about the administrator that allowed this condition to not only exist but get consistently worse. In corporate America this administrator would go the way of the dinasour but he has no stock holders to hold him responsible and this governor and those in the past have allowed this situation to become what is now a health issue. Anyone who has been in business knows that ememgency situations are more costly than planned maintenance because you are in a position to fix it no matter the cost.
In any business management class I have ever taken planning is stressed. You are instructed to make long range plans no shorter than 5 years. Where is the business infrastructure in our state institutions?
I agree with GS…if you don’t have a college, you don’t have a football/basketball team.
Pay those coaches a little bit less, and put the money towards the repairs.
This is the school’s problem, not the state.
Sewage leaking from the ceiling spilling on students? Did Halliburton build that structure like they did the multi-million dollar police academy that leaks shit on it’s students?
That President needs to find himself another job.
Doug I know it is hard to believe but Haliburton isn’t behind everything that goes wrong in this world. I seriously doubt if they built this building. I think it was around before they went into business. They didn’t enter the building industry until 1962, I read somewhere that this building pre-dated that.I guess we will have to find a different solution for this problem. I know I had a hard time fitting my mind around that fact also but I just gutted it out and faced the truth.
Like I said:UT + 130yrold buildings + good plumbing= no excuse for Kansas
We should impose a Troll Toll – that way the WE Blog actually contributes something.
Unintended Consequences, anyone?
People already avoid the toll when they can, driving down 75 South from Topeka to “toll free” 35, instead of getting on the Turnpike in Topeka, or driving from Wichita to Andover or El Dorado before getting on the Turnpike, or taking one of the other great roads between Kansas City metro area and Topeka, avoiding the Toll all together.
Won’t any increase in the Toll increase the number of people willing to drive further, burning MORE gasoline, in order to avoid the toll?
I am a huge critic of the “global warming” hysteria in vogue today, but still, isn’t this basic common sense? If it is our policy to reduce our depdendence on foreign oil, which I support, why do we want to do anything that increases demand for gasoline?
By the way, for the newbies that doubt my global warming position, read the following:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=156df7e6-d490-41c9-8b1f-106fef8763c6&k=0
As this guy says, there are other reasons to support a reduction in the use of foreign oil: pollution in general is his reason. I would add: less money to the unstable Middle East!
Well there you have it:Kathleen is causing Global Warming! lol
Just an aside regarding college athletics – for most big time programs, the major sports not only pay for themselves, including the coaches salaries, but the also pay for most of the other non-revenue generating sports.
For example, at Michigan, the football program pays for it’s self AND all of the inter and intra collegiate sports.
For a great number of schools, sports are a positive revenue proposition.
Apparently the concept of sarcasm is lost on some.
fleet,
Thank you for the National Post link — and proving again why you’re BDP’r.
They’re right-wing media, with credibilty as bad as the Washington Times.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post“The Post continues to lose money ‚Äì financial analysts estimate annual losses at about $15 million…”
Wegman’s BS re ‘Hockey Stick’ is debunked here,http://www.desmogblog.com/national-post-lionizing-deniers-desmogblog-shocked-shocked
Search “national post” at desmogblog for more examples.
WS,
Michigan got whomped again and wasn’t you calling for a repeat for the National Championship. Ohio State gets “swamped” out of the stadium by Florida.
Please argue on blogs in Michigan to fix the Big 11, so they add one team and have their conference championship game. No more split championships from that conference or the Pac 10, ever again.
Your right, TV is doing a good service for colleges today. Conferences doing it the right way, can really help sell college games. Any kind of sports “championship” run is thrilling for students and fans of that college.
Wichita is conflicted without college football as a local event and so is WSU lacking that extra amount of people and revenue to better the atmosphere on the campus. Increasing more students choosing to go there.
WSU students average age near 30 and “commuter-college” slam does not serve well the future of WSU and Wichita shouldn’t accept it.
Wichita State, becoming Wichita Shockers University and return of the football program would be hugely benefical to Wichita, selling itself and becoming a more indentifiable growing community.
KSU and KU all sports they play make them a lot of money. KU has that fight with Missouri as importance, regardless of how well rest of the season they play.
Big 8 becoming the Big 12 has worked.
WSU could make “drama” having a football team.
Well if they bring in all that money, they should pay for the repairs!
I’m with you on this one pmom. There shouldn’t be seperate maintenance accounts. If the universities go downhill can the athletics be far behind.
Doug, I’m sorry I didn’t recognize the sarcasm. You have made that statement so many times that I just thought you believed it.Sorry.
Pmom,
The state owns every building on the Regents governed campus. It’s their responsiblity for keeping some of the ancient buildings running. The landlords.
Sports does make revenue for colleges with TV contracts and I’m sure some of that money is paying for repairs on campus. Sports money should pay for new buildings on campus to help all students.
WSU or any college, could go all private I assume, controlling every building on campus as their own.
If “State” is dropping the financial support ball, why is Wichita State keeping that description on their University.
There are a few issues in posts above that I would like to address.
First, the money coming into the schools from athletics stay in the athletic departments, generally a separate quasi-public corporation; from those funds, coaches salaries; athletic scholarships; other directly relates expenses are paid. To illustrate the separate nature of athletic departments and the universities, the $1 million check from the KUAA to the University of Kansas School of Medicine earlier this academic year.
Second, endowment funds; as a general rule, the funds held by an endowment association are subject to the conditions set upon the gift by the donor. While there may be some unrestricted funds in the endowment, these are not many in number or value. Perhaps the endowment associations could encourage gifts for maintenance of buildings, but these would be in addition to the scholarship funds, etc. for which donations are already sought and received.
Third, IIRC, the funding requests of the Regents’ institutions have not been filled in full for a number of years. Thus, when $$ requested (which, again from memory, have included money for maintenance) are not received in full, the maintenance requirements often fall in priority relative to faculty salaries, general operating expenses. I’m not sure how many of you get regular pleas from your respective alma maters for donations; recently, these pleas have included urgent requests for money to allow the libraries to renew subscriptions to academic journals and the like.
Fourth, Andrew’s example of UT; unfortunately, Kansas does not have a dedicated revenue stream from public lands going to the budgets of the Regents’ institutions, as does UT.
The turnpike toll idea is not a good one; perhaps use of some of the earmarked eco-devo $$ to benefit the schools would be a start.
Adding on:
Fifth, once a structure is built on a public campus, the same becomes the property of the state, which then assumes the liability for repairs and maintenance. Perhaps when fundraising for new facilities is undertaken, a reserve for future maintenance and repair should be a part thereof. Speaking of this, what is the status for Koch Arena maintenance and repair in the future? I don’t know; but I suspect it falls upon WSU, and by extension, the state. I know this to be the case for Allen Field House.
Sixth, while there seems to be a correlation between successful athletic programs and donations to the general University for nonathletic purposes, I seem to recall at least one study which found contra. If I have time, I’ll try to find a link.
As promised above:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/04/9.9.04/Frank-athletics.html
which is a summary of a study indicating there is no long-term indirect benefit to a college/university as the result of a successful athletic program, and contains a link to the full report to the Knight Commission.
There is always going to be an argument about sports in college, because of costs. I think sports coaches in some respects are overpaid.
But if Universities have only their facilities for sports owned and serviced by them, the costs are too much on school budgets.
Koch Arena is on WSU campus but the state shouldn’t be responsible for the facility in any way.
If my plan works, WSU will play football in a stadium, they don’t pay for or maintain. Have no costs related to the stadium on their budget. They still will have Cessna Stadium for events but no extra costs. Cessna has a good track, field for high school events. Should have more concerts there.
Most colleges could use some business partnership in the facilities they use for sports. Big stadiums and arena’s not built exactly on college campus is a choice when new facilities are built.
It’s the spirit of sports that is good for communities and their colleges. Wichita does lack an event locally without college football. Age of students at WSU is too high, because teenagers and twentysomethings are going to college elsewhere.
It’s a big problem to me, because the related situation is lack enough use of our airport. Teams and their fans flying to Wichita would be hundreds, thousands of people possibly.
The stadium idea has more uses than just football. But it will be available for Bowl Games. The Big 12 football Championship moves to various locations and passes this state. Create our Bowl for whatever teams.
More people interacting at WSU events would benefit the community.
We could think about more uses of mass transportation like Bullet Trains some future day. To Oklahoma City, the first direction. Less car traffic on the highways is a plus. I’m not for increased tolls.
However it works tuition costs can’t keep rising at our state colleges and what book fees are just too much on students budgets.
My undergrad college had teams in every sport imaginable except football. However, they were truly amatuer teams and none of them (except perhaps crew) were what would be called “successful”. However, they had no difficulty whatever in attracting students.
Perhaps MIT found that something other than big-time sports worked.
Ben, as I recall, MIT competes at the Division III level, which, due to the “no athletic scholarship” rule, makes its participation (together with other D-III schools) as close to pure amateur athletics as it is possible to be in today’s world.
And yes, MIT, together with other schools with D-III programs, is successful for reasons other than athletics.
Finally, Ben, is it true that MIT has a cheer which starts out “Slide rule, slide rule…”? :-)
A football program at WSU again?
It’ll never fly.
Ben,
MIT has research grants in Millions of dollars for decades and there is no way WSU could ever copy their curriculum. Isn’t MIT putting some free classes on the net, just to share knowledge and access to their educational process.
Too much brain work, no time for Division 1 football or any Division 1 sports preparation at that school.
Getting a B probably wouldn’t cut it. Some D1 schools have story telling and basket weaving credits for athletes to take and pass.
But I’m not advocating easy classes. WSU should raise entrance requirements to a higher grade point average as schools are “fixed” here with more money from Topeka. More money from any source to make schools better and keep programs going for students not mature enough to sit still and learn. Home life for some children is highly problematic to their learning abilities.
Is our social net actually fixing that problem?
But struggles to learn grade and high school knowledge, kids can’t afford WSU if they get in. Who wants teenagers and young adults burdened with so much debt.
What’s the social experience around MIT. College can’t fix all social problems.
Russell,
>A football program at WSU again?
>It’ll never fly.
That’s pointless. Remember Wichitans are afflicted with a”don’t change” attitude BECAUSE WSU ended football. That process ruined our collective gathering abilities.
We can’t consider to gather in thousands of people for any reason. Some places can’t get hundreds of people to be together. It’s natural for other communities, to see a college football game.
College football is very different today than it was in the 80’s. TV now is a huge funding source, so are conference Championship games. Division 1 football as publicity nationally. WSU could go on the road and afford the football costs.
The key is getting people coming to Wichita.
You don’t want Wichita to improve so that could happen?
VT – you are right – true amatuer sports. I did swimming and water polo – the latter could get rough. Officials cannot see what happens under water – and then wonder why the Harvard goalie doubles over and sinks! We had a lot of fun.
Don’t remember any ’slide rule cheers’; probably spent too much time partying. The movie Animal House – I WENT to that toga party. A mix of SAE’s ’sailor party’ and FIGI’s bashes. Point is, you can have a student life without D-1 football.
I think it might be interesting to consider a level with Emporia State, KsWesleyen, Newman, etc. The fact that faculty and students know each other make it interesting.
“You don’t want Wichita to improve so that could happen? ”
That is the same bogus question thrown at us about the Arena. The fact is that I don’t believe that it will work. That is a different answer to a different question.
Ben,
Throwing the arena in my face isn’t an answer either. I’m a citizen just like you on that situation.
But arena’s aren’t stadiums. Stadium will do more events than our downtown arena.
It doesn’t mean all seats will be filled for events, but it gives Wichita the chance to see an event 6 times a season here at home.
College football now teams go anywhere to play if its classified as a Divison 1 participant. Quality enough all Divison 1 teams on a schedule makes that national ranking better.
No way will WSU try to raise from the dead, a Missouri Valley football conference again. An independent schedule for awhile so WSU could find some rivals to play.
I’m not even talking about winning and losses. It’s the event where we see ourselves gathered together and the young, huge guys on the field are still young people.
Wichita won’t change because of the downtown arena, it will with a stadium for WSU to play in. The process to build will include everyone, not the taxpayers alone. It will change part of the city where the stadium will be.
It will change a process how we gather together. Make better the process at our airport. What if Southwest Airlines was guareenteed seats when WSU team flies out or teams and fans fly in.
We bring a competitor airline with the process. Again, more consideraton of mass transportation faster, we don’t desire more traffic on the roads getting here. I’m serious about wanting a bullet train to Oklahoma City to make Wichita a truly functional city.
That would be true competition to flying.
As I have said before – I wish you luck. My only point with the Arena was to state that disagreeing on something does not mean I do not want Wichita to do well.
>No way will WSU try to raise from the dead, a >Missouri Valley football conference again.
Not sure I would have worded it that way.But then I thought I was being a sick f–k telling you I thought WSU football would “never fly.”
Damn, it’s harder and harder to offend people these days.
Oh, one more thing. If we’re dreaming about a bullet train, could it go some place that doesn’t have chiggers, tornados, and ice storms? Sometimes a guy just wants to get AWAY.
As Vaughn posted, the most crucial issue here is the continual lack of the legislature to fulfill the requests of the BoRegents requests for funding. Kansas Public Universities have offered an inexpensive educational option for residents for the past 50 years, in comparison with similar institutions (tuition has been cheap, to the tune of half of the price of TX, IL, and other states).
The regent’s hands are tied. They have to pay their labor a wage that is somewhat competitive, they have to pay the market rate for books same as other schools (hint, their profit margin isnt 50%). Blame “mismanagement” all you want, but what really has happened is the “conservative” legislature which has yet to find a public spending of money which it finds worthy enough for full funding. This problem started in the 80s, and now the crap has hit the fan (or the classroom, as the case may be).