Surely public officials should move heaven and earth to bring the cancer-preventing HPV vaccine Gardasil to as many people as possible, right? That’s the fervent hope of state Rep. Delia Garcia, D-Wichita, and the cervical cancer survivors who testified at a House hearing in Topeka in favor of a bill to mandate that sixth-grade girls in Kansas public schools have the three-shot vaccinations. Last week Texas became the first state to adopt such a mandate, and more states are debating the issue. Some bizarrely argue that the vaccinations would promote promiscuity; questions about Gardasil’s $360 cost and long-term safety and efficacy seem more valid. As our editorial Friday argued, though — this is “a vaccine that prevents cancer. It will be difficult for Kansas lawmakers to deny that potent fact, at least for long.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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90 Comments
People say that Merck is donating heavily to legislators campaigns in order for them to force vaccinations to their drug and make tons of money.
Merck did donate to a lot of Kansas Legislators campaigns last year, but to set the record straight, Rep. Delia Garcia didn’t recieve a single penny and she is pushing this on her own intitive, not tained by lobbyist.
I think all vaccines are a good thing. Hopefully Kansas does take up this bill and have it part of the immunication requirements.
Hmmm, cancer or a vaccine. Saving 4,000 lives a year or not. It must be the insane who think that cancer and death is a good idea in comparison. Some actually argue that a sixth grader will start having sex because she’ll no longer have to worry about cancer. Is this what fundies seriously think about when they have sex? Who in their right mind said no to sex because of a worry that they may get cancer 50 years down the road? I bet they were against pap smears too.
Don’t let insane, religious nuts who falsely portray themselves as “pro-life” making health decisions for anyone.
I realize one hates to put dollars on this , but Colorado just looked at this. They had only 137 cases of cervical cancer last year. And the vaccine is 70% effective so it supposedly would have prevented 0.7×137 = 96 people. To vaccine every 12 and above each year was cost out to be about 10 million per year. That is a lot per case, but I guess as long as you put out the info people can make an informed decision…unless religion gets into it, then all bets are off.
I think we just did this discussion yesterday in the “open” thread.
Little has changed since then.
MrBill gives us good info that the vaccine is only 70% effective – and in the Colorado study there were only 137 cases of cervical cancer last year. Yet, it will cost 10 million per year to vaccinate? That’s some lopsided comparisons if we are FORCING families to pay for their own kids. And if we’re NOT forcing them – that’s a big amount for the States to shoulder.
The fact still remains that the ages the vaccine will work – are between 9 and 26, leaving plenty of time for any 18 or older young lady to CHOOSE FOR HERSELF.
It’s HER body.It’s HER choice.
Merck must be walking on air, thinking they finally found a way to force legislators to MANDATE the purchase of their drugs.
You guys are looking at it through a very narrow picture. This vaccine isn’t designed to prevent cervical cancer. It is designed to prevent the Human Papillomavirus, which can cause cervical cancer and a whole host of serious problems like infertility, while these conditions caused by HPV may be rare, it is a disease that is highly transmittable, has no cure and you have to deal with a lifetime of breakouts and warts for the rest of your life.
This is from the CDC website:
Approximately 20 million people are currently infected with HPV. At least 50 percent of sexually active men and women acquire genital HPV infection at some point in their lives. By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have acquired genital HPV infection. About 6.2 million Americans get a new genital HPV infection each year.
The HPV vaccine, while marketed by Merck and pushed by politicans as possible life saver, it’s true design is to stop the spread and infection of HPV. If we start with young girls now, we can substantially decrease HPV infections in our country in one generation.
That is what you have to look at. Now! Figure that cost again?
Joe – I think it is a GOOD idea to get immunized. I hope my daughter gets one.
But the fact still remains – it is HER choice.It’s HER body. No mandate is needed.
Politicalmom convinced me a couple of years ago – on the dangers of carelessly immunizing children. She has more data on the CDC put together than most of us will ever have. She has a child who was likely damaged from an immunization.
Since this HPV vaccine is valid until the age 26 – a young lady can make her own decision to get the vaccine.
It’s HER choice.It’s HER body.
Hasn’t all vaccines have an opt out option? If you want to opt out that is fine.
I don’t know P-mon’s experience. Did her child become ill from recieving a vaccine or did something happen adminitrating the vaccine (a careless nurse)?
Some may remember that I have mention this before, Both my wife and my youngest Brother-in-law said independent of each other and two weeks a part. “Middle school girls are hornier then Middle school boys”.If some have not figured it out yet, I really do think too much and so of course this set me off on this.Asking different people from the district’s Child development councilor to ( I am the classic example how curiosity got the cat killed) a group of Middle school cheerleaders. As I was never a Middle school aged girl but just could not accept that anything could be “hornier” then a Middle school aged boy.
The answer I received from all was “yes”, the school councilor explained it this way: “The girls desire it for the intimacy, the physical closeness of the act. Not for the physical act of sex, where the boys desire it for the sex act”. FYI in case you are wondering, the cheerleaders said: Yes up to the seventh grade, then you figure out that is what the boys want so you don’t want to anymore!”.
The point being that we can bury our heads in the sand, lock up our daughters till they are too old to want to have sex ( OK now at what age would that be?), or face a reality that there is a need. I read yesterday that they ARE doing research as to what effect this vaccine will have on boys. Like any cure for any cancer, I believe it should be free. Something’s are just so important that it goes beyond simply making money, they are what a real intelligent species would do.
As to the impact upon a states economy, the use of tax dollars to fund such programs, the laundry list of what tax dollars are spent on often ranges from the needed to the moronic. If we are to hold to the claim that we the body human are the most intelligent species on earth. Before we spend one red cent on the moronic it should go to save a human life! Repairing one more pothole in the road should never be at the cost of a life.It just defeats the reason for a smoother road to do so.
Link to VAERS, the government’s own website to log incidents of vaccine adverse reactions.
vaers.hhs.gov/info.htm
read how they skate around the reasons one might have a reaction.
They know that it can be harmful, they just don’t put the info up there.
Then click that you’ve read the statement, then onto the logged accidents for any year. I’m looking at 2006.
Many have Guillian Barr as a side effect…something I didn’t even know. And skin ulcers! Not even through the first month and I found two deaths and a miscarriage.
The contents of vaccines:vaccination.inoz.com/ingredie.html
Although I don’t like the religious reasons for this site, the information is valid.
The only problem I have with this is the mandatory part. A flu shot is not mandatory. The flu kills a lot of people. Let people decide if they want it or not. Period.
Why is it that we want government to direct our lives? Are we now all too stupid to make our own decisions?
For the sake of argument, let’s accept the Colorado figures – 96 lives saved at a cost of $10 million, or, broken down, $104,167 per life. Current treatment, which simply prolong the ultimate fatal outcome in almost all cases, is more expensive than that. But, far more importantly, is your daughter’s life worth less than $104 grand and change?
Get a grip, Sheridan, it’s HER body, but it’s YOUR responsibility. Would you allow your 6 year old daughter to play on the Turnpike because, “Hey, it’s HER body?” Good parenting demands tough decisions. If you’re not prepared to make those decisions, don’t have kids. Simple solution to a complex problem!
And, as I said yesterday, PMom, if it is mandatory, provisions will have to be put in place that make it affordable for people without applicable health insurance. Either get on the wagon, or stop bemoaning your plight of not being able to afford health insurance.
Realistically, I don’t like the government telling any citizen that anything that has to do with one’s own body is mandatory. That’s one reason that I’m adamantly pro-choice on the abortion issue. And my younger daughter is too old anyway, and is insured anyway. But, mandating it makes it available to those who cannot afford it and have no insurance.
I’m not sure how this affects the illegal immigrants here, though, whose 6+ year old daughters are, in fact, citizens, by definition. Any ideas there, anyone?
Joe Williams: I saw that last night on the news. Gov. Rick Perry has received, to date, about $22 grand from Merck; while Rep. Garcia has received nothing, nada, zip. Speaks volumes of her integrity on this issue. As a close friend of mine likes to say, “I don’t know why anyone would want to buy a politician, when you can rent one so cheaply!” :)
If people looked at the war on drugs as a cost benefit ratio; or the war in Iraq as a cost benefit ratio, both would be over.
DK: So true, so true. And the list could go on and on and on. Today’s CIA. Nancy Pelosi. Billary Clinton. FEMA. Homeland Security. And so on, as nauseum.
rm – your note about Delia suggests that we need to look at the issue itself rather than looking for ulterior motives. I know Delia and she has long been an advocate of public health issues. So, when we look at this vaccine issue we should look at it directly – risk/benefit etc. I don’t know the answer – being naturally somewhat skeptical I have to ask if side effects have been sufficiently examined. Then I might also look at the age of application – but all of these from a MEDICAL, not political, perspective.
A comment on mandatory – the general idea is to disrupt vectors. Mass immunization is really the only way to accomplish that.
Once again the neo con “Christian Taliban” nutcases will crawl out from under their rocks to prevent any girls from getting this shot- lest they might engage in sex- which I think they already so to some extent. These people would much prefer to see women suffer and die than to advance anything that might be beneficial whether it is this, AIDS medicine or even birth control. They, like the Taliban, believe that women are born to be oppressed by men. I think the vaccine should be mandatory, free to all and with NO “opt out”. And if the Good Lord ever provides us with an AIDS/HIV vaccine, the same thing should apply.
What this vaccine is trying to prevent is not communicable like mumps or measles. There is no public good by making it mandatory. This should be a opt IN program, not opt OUT.
It is Nanny state at it’s worst.
The AIDS/HIV vaccine that kev references would be different. It is communicable. You don’t “catch” cancer.
Flame: Truth is that some people are too stupid to make decisions. They are either religious nutcases (as opposed to regular Christians with good sense like me), uneducated or just lazy, drunk and no good for nothing. These people are free to make decisions for themselves but the government has a duty to watch over the rights of their children including the health, education and welfare of such. I believe the government should go further than it does now in this regard. I would not allow things like opting out of vacinations, so-called “home schooling” or even many private “schools”. I think it is in the national interest that every child be given health care and a quality public education.
No, Fleet, you don’t “catch” cancer. But you “catch” STD’s, which lead, in many cases, to cancer. You “catch” sun rays, which, in many cases, lead to cancer. You “catch” unavoidable exposure to carcinogens and toxins, which, in many cases, lead to cancer. Your argument doesn’t hold water.
I wonder if it has been identified which strains of the HPV vaccine will help prevent and which ones are the most virulent.
Since the vaccine is based on protein synthetics, there is no danger of replication of genes like modified live or attenuated viruses based vaccines.
The vaccine will just produce the antibodies necessary to fight the virus in the future because of the bodies reaction to the protein material which covers the HP virus. In other words, the HPV needs a protein layer to survive. The vaccine will provided a natural resistance at I think what I am seeing 70 percent effectiveness rate.
Not perfect, but a good start.
The leading cause of cervical cancer is contagious — you do “catch” it. It’s caused by a combination of viruses that are “caught” by sexual activity. We are sexual beings. This vaccine is a 100% effective CURE for this cause of this cancer. The viruses are very contagious and wide spread. Males are the “carriers,” and are frequently symptom free so don’t even know they are spreading these viruses. Females who receive this vaccination are 100% protected from the leading cause of cervical cancer. A CURE FOR CANCER! Study it, learn the facts, and protect your daughters.
Vector interruption – I wonder if it would make sense to also vaccinate males. Presumably the male must be carrying the virus for it to transmit. Could that pathway be blocked?
Pretty good article on the Vaccine and causes here:
http://www.rhtp.org/documents/HPVvaccineupdate06.14.06.pdf
Linda: I hope you aren’t directing that comment to me — if you are, turn around, because you’re preaching to the choir! Fleet is the one who doesn’t seem to grasp the concept.
“The ABCs of the HPV vaccineGardasil can protect against the human papillomavirus – what does it mean for you?”http://cinweekly.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061220/LIFE06/612200327
According to the article regarding men and the HPV Vaccine:
“Men are often asymptomatic carriers of HPV, so it’s important to protect your partner. But men also can develop genital warts or cancer.
A vaccination for you is being researched, but until then, you “just have to wear a condom, that’s it,” Husseinzadeh says.”
I’m a Christian, I homeschooled my children, and I made sure they received all their vaccinations. We should do everything possible to protect our children. However, I don’t think the government should mandate the HPV vaccine, especially for 11 year old girls. These girls are still developing and growing. I personally wouldn’t want my daughter to receive it that young not being sure of the risks involved.
JM: Good, concise article … and written in language that lay folks can clearly understand. So many of them, you need to be at least a Ph.D. scientist, or preferably, an M.D. to understand what they’re saying. Thanx!
rm6046 writes:
“Get a grip, Sheridan, it’s HER body, but it’s YOUR responsibility. Would you allow your 6 year old daughter to play on the Turnpike because, “Hey, it’s HER body?” Good parenting demands tough decisions. If you’re not prepared to make those decisions, don’t have kids. Simple solution to a complex problem!”——————
She almost 22, moron, it’s HER responsibility. Her fiance’ father is a doctor with the Galicia Group in Wichita and she also spoke with him about it -but he did not encourage her to get it yet. You must be one of those folks that is totally pro-life, too, and thinks a woman has no right to make decisions for her own body. People like that should think twice before having kids, IMHO.
You need to listen to what PM has said – she has studied this for a long time. She is light years ahead of you when it comes to this.
Anyone who seriously is buying into a MANDATE needs to read this article from the ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION:
http://ahrp.blogspot.com/search/label/Government%20collusion
Another poster here made a very astute observation – folks die from the flu every year – but the flu shot is not mandatory.
People also die from Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever borne by ticks, should all persons near areas of tick infestations be forced to get the shot?
Until further safety studies are done – some folks might want to wait and not subject young girls to this immunization. Read the link above if you think this is a safe drug.
And the board’s resident scientist, Ben, has already stated he is not convinced.
Some people are so drug happy.
rm6046, No, I was aiming my comments at fleetwood, while fully realizing s/he won’t let facts get in the way. Still this is important so worth a try. :o)
And for those who think the FDA is the have-all, end-all when it comes to drug safety, it might be time to educate yourselves a little.
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/4269
Winnie! If 11 years old is consider too young, what then is the vaccines that children recieve just after birth (Hepititus) and MMR’s at a very young age?
Winnie: Your point is well taken. A couple who I know well home schooled their daughter. The first public school she ever entered was a university. Graduated magna cum laude and is now writing her thesis and teaching in the public school system. As stated earlier, the only argument, in my mind, for mandation, is availability to the poor and uninsured — which, arguably, may be the segment most at risk. Eleven, however, seems unnecessarily young (to me, anyway). I have read though, don’t remember where, that puberty and menstruation is occurring at younger ages in girls than, say, 40 years ago.
JM, I went to the links you provided. One of the articles said ,as of yet, it looks like a safe vaccine. It sounds like having a yearly exam would be a lot safer than putting a foreign substance in your body that isn’t 100% effective and could have some risks.The article recommended regular exams anyway, because the vaccine isn’t effective in all types of cervical cancer.
GS: If you had bothered to read the whole post, or any other abortion related post I have ever written, you would see that I’m adamantly pro-choice. But, hey, like Fleet, you would never bother to let facts get in the way of your drivel. And I’m a moron because I don’t know your daughter’s age? I’m just happy for her to be getting married and out from under your neo-Nazi ultra-rightest propaganda wing. Hopefully, she will recover and have a wonderful life as far away from you as she can get, so you can’t infect her children — because there will never be a vaccine for the contagion you spew helter skelter.
Winnie,
I think that women should be the frontrunners on this issue or in the totality, anyone (male or female) with a daughter that fits this category.
I think that public education on this issue is important before there is a mandatory requirement as it seems that women are more at risk due to this type of cancer than men.
Perhaps the push for condom usage could be upped as it appears to be the only solution for prevention of the spread of the virus.
Although not effective in preventing all types of cervical cancer it is 100% effective in preventing the leading cause of cervical cancer.
Glancing at the website that GS referred to, I find it interesting, but not surprising, that it appears to be a right wing political agenda blog. And when you go to their “About Us” link, it can’t be found. No director identification, no nothing. And it is a blog, a virtual Wikipedia of ultra-right opinions. As Ben said, analysis should be from a medical, not a political, point of view.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that when GS is called on the carpet, she slithers back under her rock for several hours?
Joe, my children didn’t receive the hepititus, chicken pox, MMR, and meningitus vaccines, because they weren’t available at the time of their birth. They both caught chicken pox before the vaccine was available. Neither one were very sick with it. The other vaccines were given later. The only one not optional was the MMR and it was given to them before they entered pre-school. I’m glad I had the option of waiting until the boys were older for the others. All that has to be done to contract those diseases is to be around people. The point I’m trying to make is the HPV vaccine ought to be optional, not government mandated. It is a sexually transmitted disease and can be treated. It doesn’t always cause cervical cancer. Regular, yearly exams are important. I’m all for the government picking up the tab for low income women to be able to go to the doctor if there is a problem and to have yearly exams. This seems to be a safer & less expensive option to me.
I am totally against this mandate.The medical establishments have a history behind them of gruel violation of human experiments.Do any of you really believe that the medical establishments should be trusted anymore?I would think that you are foolish to buy into today’s medicine hype with all the false hopes only to find out that you are sucker into a money scam with no results or more damages due to it.I have always tried to remember that for every one person’s pleasures, two or more people suffer.That seems to be the rule of thumb in today’s human nature in doing things that should have been abandoned when we first started upright walking.Let’s see if anybody is capable of excelling human evolution to the next level without that rule being in the equation.
I believe that people should have the right to decide if their children receive immunizations. When I was a child there were few and I remember catching all the childhood diseases. I also remember that children died from these diseases and immunizations have saved a lot of lives. If I had daughters I would vacinate them because the problems that HPV cause outweigh the problems with the vaccine in my mind. I think each parent has to decide what they think is best for their child and realize that not vacinating has consequences. There has been a rise in the childhood diseases that were pretty much obliterated because of vaccines. However we need to decide for ourselves what we want for our children. I do however feel that the govenment should cover the cost for poor women and girls. It is a lot cheaper than the cost of cancer treatment at a later date. We waste all kinds of money on other things that are not nearly as important.
Precisely, my point, Brenda. How are you going to assure the poor and uninsured get availability? As PMom was saying the other day, when she wasn’t working and her husband was making $8/hour, they were still making too much money to get medical assistance, etc. I think there is some sort of state Medicaid-type deal for uninsured children of low-income families, (KansasKids, or some such), but I don’t know anything about it, but (a) unmandated, would it be covered or considered elective, like a nose job or a tummy tuck, and not be covered, and (b) what about the 18 – 26 year olds? If those obstacles are overcome, then I’m absolutely against mandation. It’s just that nobody has suggested a viable alternative … yet. I hope somebody can.
Hmmmm
An interesting opportunity this thread.
I don’t have a dog in the fight.
So SOME are concerned that it is not right to mandate the vaccination and others are rightly concerned for the less fortunate.
Compromise.
Get the info out. Then let each person decide.
Make the shots free for anyone who DOES want them.
The vacine should be provided free to all women whether poor or not. I figure to give it to all females would cost less than a year in Iraq has cost.
JR: But nothing is ever free. The funding has got to come from somewhere. The drug companies are sure as hell not going to give the vaccine away. Therein, as Shakespeare wrote, “lays the rub…..”. Somebody’s got to pay for the uninsured poor. The State? The Fed? Or do we just spend millions more watching them die needlessly?
Kev: I’m sure that’s true, but comparing cervical cancer to Iraq is like comparing fish to bicycles.
Nothing happens in Topeka by accident. I’ve met Garcia and she does appear to be a nice, honest individual. However, all that means is someone is playing politics very well. It’s no accident her name is attached to this.
That being said, the vaccine should not be mandatory nor free. If you can’t afford it then how about a zero-interest loan from the taxpayers? Just because you are ‘poor’ doesn’t mean you should have life handed to you.
Proudman: You pretty much lost me on that one. What does her name have to do with it? And the logistics of “interest-free loans” would cost more than just paying for the shots, IMHO.
“I think there is some sort of state Medicaid-type deal for uninsured children of low-income families, (KansasKids, or some such)”
It’s Healthwave, and it covers all immunizations, so I would have to assume that it would cover this new one.
However, I would check insurance policies, no matter what your insurance, to make sure it’s covered, unless you’re willing to bear the full price of it.
Garcia’s name is the one attached to the bill. It’s no different than picking the appropriate celebrity spokesman. She is the ‘face’ of the pro-mandatory crowd. An astute political move.
The loan idea was just that, an idea. I’m against welfare, both corporate and personal. However for medical issues I don’t see why the government couldn’t see to it people get timely treatment and have reasonable time to repay the cost.
I’m in full agreement with GS and the others opposed to this vac being mandated. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have my child vaccinated. I’d simply like to see a little more about it before rushing her to the doctor to get it. And I’m not any of the things Kev mentioned. :)
I heard about HPV many years ago. It isn’t something new. In truth (if I may borrow that), the risk of HPV rises with the number of sex partners a person has.
I’d also take a daughter to get birth control if I knew she was having sex and definitely if she asked for it. I wouldn’t force her, nor would I NOT rant about being sure to use condoms.
RB: Definitely, if one is insured, read all the fine print. I’m talking strictly about the uninsured poor. And, thanks, for the Healthwave name. I was sure there was something like that, but I couldn’t think of the name of it with a gun to my head.
And we still have the 18 – 26 year olds unaccounted for. I assume the Healthwave would cut off at 18?
Brenda,
I’m old enough to remember when there weren’t vaccines for common childhood illnesses, and I went through nearly all of them
It isn’t so much the severity of the diseases, it’s what many of them can do to those who contract them at a later age. Mumps can cause sterility in adult males. Measles can causes birth defects in pregnant women. I’ve never been real sure about what the problem is with chicken pox or if there is one. Anyway, that’s the reason for childhood innoculations–to protect adults.
Does anyone know why the MMR is given twice now? A few years after it was first mandated, it was discovered that the vaccine was given too early and either didn’t last as long as expected or was given while babies still had natural immunity to the disease. Some of these vaccines do have a shorter protection time than others, similar to tetanus.
I know nothing about Ms. Garcia, except Ben’s gracious personal comments about her. And, believe it or not, I’m no fan of mandated anything that has to do with personal choices. I just feel that it should be available to young woman, regardless of her or her parents’ financial status. And there’s no question that $300 and change is a hell of a lot cheaper than cancer treatment, which seems to do little more than prolong the agony, most of the time.
rm I do want this vaccine to be available to those who want it. There has to be a way to get this to be covered by insurance and health departments in ALL cases when it is wanted, and not cost prohibitive.
But that is not a reason to make it forced.
ANYTHING coming out of the FDA newly, we’re ALL still guinea pigs for at least 10 years, this thing is brand new you won’t know the ramifications of it till later. I’m fine with the age group, I think religious nuts who are afraid it’ll …whatever, are stupid.
But HPV has been shown now in new studies that it can be spread without sexual contact in limited cases. So how many kids are actually exposed to it before they’re even sexual?
What happens when the virus begins to mutate?
And as far as opting out, like right now, anytime you try to opt out of a vaccine, the parents are practically put on trial for the reasons why. Many, like right now, don’t even know you can opt out of mandatory vaccines, they’re often not even given that information.
GS,
I’m not a fan of the FDA. I’m not a fan of prescription drugs, either. From what I’ve seen, once you’re given a long-term drug, you end up taking another one or two to counter the side effects of the first. Then more drugs to counter the NEW side effects… I’m very picky about prescriptions, being careful about not taking a lot of antibiotics. Only if I need them, and that’s been rare. I always research what side effects can be expected and how those are treated.
I think it’s ironic that the FDA refuses to test and evaluate herbal treatment, used widely in Europe. My opinion is that it’s because, originally, big pharma wasn’t involved, so FDA approval didn’t happen. Now that many of the big pharmas are using herbs and other natural substances (check out all the new OTC cold remedies), I expect they’ll insist that the FDA “approve” many of them.
RD I had the whole hep B series back when it first came out en mass because I was a healthcare provider. Well when I was titered for my new job, I was found to not have enough immunity and would be required to do the whole series again.
I couldn’t opt out because of my job, and that made me angry.
When the FDA becomes a protection agency again, and not bought and paid for by the drug companies, then they might actually have some clout again.
For what it’s worth, I have two daughters. This vaccine was not available in 2001. My older daughter died from cervical cancer at the age of 35 in that year. So, I guess I do have a dog in this fight, so to speak. She was a health care professional and insured. There is no amount of money that could compensate for her loss. The vaccine could not have saved her, as it didn’t exist. But, there is no no reason why any other young women should die needlessly today. It’s imperative that it be made available to each and every one of them — how that happens is of no consequence to me, only that it is universally aavailable.
I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. Thank you for sharing. Maybe someone will be saved because of your words. I’m with you — I’m usually absolutely against mandatory ANYTHING, but this time I want every young girl to be vaccinated. Cervical cancer is all too often found too late. There aren’t any tests that detect it soon enough. These viruses are responsible for up to 70% of cervical cancer and this immunization protects against that cause of this cancer. IT’S A CURE for a horrible disease. It is one we as parents need to provide for our daughters before they become sexually active and exposed.
Linda: Thank you for your kind words.
rm6046,
I totally understand your strong position now on the vaccine. And I am very, very sorry for your loss. You have suffered something none of us ever want to consider happening – the death of a child.
I’m sure your daughter was a wonderful human being. It is a tragedy she was taken so young.
I wont disagree with you again on this topic.
I’m sorry too for your loss. But tomorrow when the next vaccine comes out, there will be someone who speaks out because they have a family member who died of it. I wish we could prevent every young death, but I feel some of these vax’s are cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m saying educate yourselves on the potential ramifications of it, and let parents choose if they want to chance the risk vs benefit.
GS and PMom: Thank you both. Please understand, in my mind, education beats the hell out of mandation. But, I think I can safely say, even with a few exceptions which bring it down, the median I.Q. of the folks participating here far exceeds the “across the board” nationwide. How do we get this information out to everyone? Please believe me when I say the smarter we are does not mean we have all the answers, we simply have more and more pertinent questions. And again, thank you both.
RM – I did not know that you had lost a child. No matter their ages, to a parent, they will always be a child – a little boy or a little girl.
My girls are now 31 and 28. My son is 19. My hope is that they live long and productive lives. My pray is that they will outlive me.
I know that this is five years too late, my friend, but you have my very deepest sympathies.
God bless you and yours.
Thanks, buddy!
Wow! You’re not such an asshole after all WSClark.
My appoligies for calling you that. You’re alright in my book.
RM I don’t have any children at this moment, but I have a few coming in a couple of months. My world will change for the better and I will finally understand what parental love will actually feel like. I will do what ever I can to treasure each moment with them, because life is so very unpredictable that you have to embrace each day you have on this earth.
Joe: “A few…”, OMG. You’re a better man than I. One at a time was all I could do! :) Congratulations to you and yours, and good luck, pal!
And savor every moment, my friend. You are so right!
I don’t think it should be mandated, but a choice for each parent/girl to make for themselves. We don’t yet know the long term effects of this vaccine, I hope my granddaughter will wait a few years before she gets it (she’s 10). I’m all for preventing disease, but every intervention has a down side, I’d like to see what the side effects (if any) of the vacine are first.
“Wow! You’re not such an asshole after all WSClark.”
Well, my heartfelt comment to RM are hardly proof that I am NOT an asshole, but thanks anyway, Joe.
I will tell you, however, that being a parent is both the greatest joy and the greatest sorrow that you will ever experience.
You can never do enough for your children – ever. It is the one job you can get without qualification while needing the GREATEST qualifications.
While you have them, Joe, enjoy every moment you can.
To quote Springsteen, “yeah, they pass you bye, ……. in a wink of a young girl’s eye.”
I am still an asshole, Joe, at least to the right wingers, but I do wish you well with your impending parenthood.
What the hell, Joe, parenting may turn you into a LIBERAL!
Yew haw!!!!!!
Mary: Referencing back to the woman that you spoke of yesterday on another thread, and my response to that, you just spoke of intervention vs. consequences. There are going to be consequences to that issue also, but you had the where with all and confidence to act in her behalf. If you haven’t looked back at that since lunchtime today, perhaps you should. Is this issue any less important? You had the guts to do the right thing then. And, in this one, your granddaughter is only 10, so you don’t have to decide today.
Parenting: “The hardest job you’ll ever have and no one does it right”.
rm6046I’ll keep you updated on her, I’m going to try and get home health services for her on Monday, I just hope she’ll be receptive to it. Like I said yesterday, she is totally blind and completely on her own, I guess her family abandoned her two years ago. I hope she will accept the support that others are willing to give her. We’ll see.
I have a few issues with this vacciene.
Drug company campaign contributions are going to happen no matter what they are looking out for their own interests and a mandate for immunizations would put alot of money in their pockets so they are going to do whatever they can to push it through.
My mainconcern is testing drug companies are not required to do testing on children to gat FDA approval. Before we all rush out to force every 12 year old girl in the state to get this we should have a lot more research done on the vacciene.
I have heard word that some einstien brought up the idea of requiring this vacciene for all boys as well and I don’t understand how that could possibly be a good idea except to payout to the drug company.
My Wife’s stepmother’s grandchild, a young woman of 20, that just has a child was diagnosed with cervical cancer a couple of weeks ago. I hope it was caught early enough not to be a threat to her life.Thank God that Polio wasn’t a sexually transmitted disease, or else we’d still be having epidemics as the righties wouldn’t want to condone such a vacination!
I am old enough to have been around during the last polio epidemic. I vaguely remember it; the closed swimming pools etc. My poor mother (a nurse) having to deal with it both at work and at home. Fortunately there was also a non-paralytic version that seemed to be more prevalent in that last one.
I later remember the early shots and then the sugar cubes. Because of that I grew up a bit of a hawk on vaccinations.
My eldest sister must have caught her’s on the first round, she has an arm, that didn’t grow since childhood.
If Syphlis, gonorhea, and AIDS, aren’t enough to scare the children of God Fearin Parents out of having sex, is cervical cancer going to be their golden bullet?
“In the majority of states, incidence and mortality rates of cervical cancer for black and Hispanic women were higher than for white women, although screening rates were as high, if not higher, for black women than for white women. Screening for Hispanic women in some states and for Asian-Pacific Islander women and American Indian/Alaska Native women around the country continued to lag. The incidence of cervical cancer for black women in Kansas was nearly triple that of white women, while the incidence rate for Hispanic women in Massachusetts was almost two-and-a-half times that of white women. The mortality rate for black women was nearly twice the rate or higher than for white women in half of all states.”
Hey all, I don’t do this much, but I wanted to weigh in on this. I am a parent, I have a 12 year old daughter and 2 sons. My oldest boy has Poly JRA (arthritis). He was on Vioxx for 3 years before all of that type of medication was pulled from the shelves because the tests used for FDA approval were tainted by the manufacturer. I am by no means against having this vaccine available, but I do not feel it should be mandated. 1 year on the market is not near enough time for actual long term health effects to known, and I have been burned by the drug companies, namely Merck, before.
Saturday night is family night for us, so we discussed this topic, as we do many national and world-wide events.
One daughter wasn’t in attendance, but she’s scheduled for the vac with her doctor later in the spring. The oldest said she would get the vac if she wasn’t turning 27 next month. The 24 year-old is currently expecting, so it’s not a decision she’ll be making for a while. The youngest (17) listened. She and I will talk again later about it, I’m sure. And her sisters will have their say where she’s concerned. *grin*
RM, I’m sending {{{HUGS}}} to you and yours for your loss. Peace to all of you.
You guys may not be old but I am old. In the 1970s there was not a single case of Swine Flu in the United States yet just the very threat of it prompted the President of the United States (think it was Ford) to order and the Congress to fund a universal vaccination for everybody in the United States. I remember standing in line at school for mine. Today there is no doubt that cervical cancer kills many thousands of females every year. It is a 90+ percent fatal disease. Therefore logic would dictate that it is a far more dangerous disease than Swine Flu was. And we are speaking of mandatory funded vaccinaions for half the population. If the government did this, they could negotiate a much lower price from Merck- probably $100 or less per female and Merck would still have a good day at the bank at that price.
On a parent point of view, I am the proud granddad of three wonderful boys all born out of wedlock.I am glad to say they all have the same father and he did not run for the hills when he learned of the pregnancy. He is right there with her and his children and has shown himself to be a loving man to my daughter and grandkids.
To the point, as a parent I was totally oblivious to her being sexually active even at the age of nineteen.It was only after she called to say she was pregnant that I learned that she had been for years with someone I thought was a “good kid”. But they were more “friend’s with benefits” as the younger set calls it. My daughter was deeply active in the church, wore the ring of “true love waits” and was a signer of the pledge.I know it was a shock to learn all this with the news of her pregnancy at nineteen. But my neighbor learned at the same time his fifteen y.o. daughter was pregnant.
I worked at a Middle school for over five years as a custodian, most parents are willfully ignorant of what their kids are doing. Often thinking more like a parent then remembering how it was to be 12, 13, 14.Remember the term “playing Doctor”? This is frightening, when you look at your eleven y.o. you see a baby, a little child. But that is not how your eleven y.o. see themselves, they truly do not understand what it is to be an adult or adult things. But will be willing to try anything they see as being an adult, smoking, drugs and yes sex.
I recently read that the age that girls get their first period is going down, in some cases as young as eight!Developing breasts and pubic hair, if someone is ignorant of this they are then capable of becoming pregnant. Again too young to think about the need for this injection?
No it is not 100% effective against all causes of the cancer, it is said to be effective against 70% of the causes. It is the only valid argument for it being mandatory, most parents will not look at their 11,12,13,14 Y.O. as being endanger of having sex. But your child may very well have a different view of themselves.
Kev: If you were in anything except graduate school in the 70’s, trust me — you’re not old!! :)WD: So glad to hear about your bride and her recovery !!
Both of you: Good solid points. Now, we’re getting somewhere ! Thanx!
I just think making a distinction between other illness and this is somewhat absurd.No, walking down the street you may not be exposed to HPV at least not the kind that this drug works against. You have to have sex, but then who is not? I mean it is a human imperative, get married, have children…. Reproduce! perhaps, but few ever die of old age as a virgin. Something I have to say I am ignorant of is whether it is something males are born with, or contract? All I know is that it is having sex with a male is how a female can be inflicted. I need to study up on this aspect, if it is something we (males) are born with then the injections might be better for boys then girls. But since a male is a carrier and is not effected. It would stand to reason that male already have the effect that this drug has.So would it do any good to have the injection?
Here’s an update I just found on KSN’s website:
HPV vaccine bill may have hit road blockWichita, KS Feb. 10, 2007 For Wichita Representative Delia Garcia it is a mission. “My conscious won’t allow me to do anything but to protect women’s lives.”
For Garcia that protection comes from a new vaccine for HPV approved last year by the FDA. Gardasil is a major step in preventing the sexually transmitted disease that can cause cervical cancer which is the second leading cancer in women. “Cervical cancer does not discriminate and HPV does not discriminate. I would hope we would rather protect our daughters,” says Garcia.
The Wichita Representative and more than thirty of her colleagues sponsored House Bill 2227. It would require all sixth grade girls in the state to be vaccinated for HPV, while still giving parents the authority to opt out for religious or medical reasons. “Here we have a chance to prevent a cancer. We ought to be jumping on the band wagon. We can actually for the first time actually have a vaccine to prevent cancer,” points out Representative Judith Loganbill of Wichita.
Not everyone is jumping on that band wagon, however. Representative Brenda Landwehr who chairs the Health and Human Services Committee where the bill now stands says she will delay it until at least 2009. She told KSN News, “this is a vaccine that hasn’t been out even a year yet, so there’s not enough information to say what the side effects will be. There’s a lot of issues on how safe it’s going to be.” Lanwehr says her statement is based on information from the Kansas Department of Health and Environment.
But for those supporting the bill, they’re confident it’s safe and see Landwehr’s move as wrong. “My response would be delaying would be deadly,” says Representative Garcia.
Texas already requires the vaccine for it’s residents, and 22 other states are considering requiring it. The HPV vaccine is supported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/5744251.html
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