Many Vietnam veterans were not honored and supported the way they should have been. But Jack Shafer, media critic for the online magazine Slate, is trying to kill a stubborn urban myth that refuses to die, thanks to publications such as Newsweek: that returning Vietnam vets were spat upon. He cites a researcher and Vietnam vet (also cited by WE Bloggers) who found no concrete evidence (newspaper accounts, arrest records) that any such assaults ever occurred. The researcher did find evidence, though, that anti-war protesters were spit-slimed by pro-war Americans.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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Perhaps they should then talk to real live people that it did happen to and are speaking about it.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/01/they_want_it_le.html#comments
And of course we should all bow down to the likes of Leftist such as Wolcott and well known Military ? (actually a movie critic) Shafer.
I was in a half dozen airports in uniform during from 1968 through 1970 and all I ever got was fair treatment from everyone. As I have said, it probably happened in a few instances.
As Randy has illustrated here – there is very little integrity left in the media.
I remember when reporters went the extra mile to ‘get the story.’ No longer. Now their sole agenda is to hype their own political leanings – no matter how errant without regard for the truth.
Here on WEBlog, most, if not all, of the stories have a strong leftist lean. Hey, that’s fine – to each their own, but when Randy, and those like him, promote revisionist history, in an attempt to whitewash the poor conduct of a previous generation of leftists – who does it harm?
It harms everyone. It harms integrity.
They’re in the wrong business – they need to go into politics.
Or religion.
mr.bill while your foaming with outrage over the ALLEGED incidents why don’t you ponder for a few seconds some of the incidents that set the mood back in 68-73.The one that jumps out is the My Lai massacre where US troops killed as many as 500 civilian men, women and children.
For anyone who actually cares to learn the truth – here is a first-hand account from those who suffered the degradation at the hands and mouths of the disgusting liberals who not only spat upon them – but called them ‘baby killer,’ etc. Take time to scroll down and read the comments:
http://www.amazon.com/Homecoming-Bob-Greene/dp/0399133860
Any reporters who take part in this trend are no different from the Holocaust deniers. Both are scrambling to cover-up facts in order to promote their political agenda.
This is really a sad state of affairs.
I saw disgusting liberals putting flowers in the ends of the gun barrels,prior to being shot to death by Gee Shurdum’s conservative heros.
morg – The My Lai incident was unfortunate, indeed, but that didn’t give the leftists the right to spit upon our returning soldiers.
A better question would be to ask WHY situations like My Lai occur – and at some point you will find that the human psyche ‘flips’ when they are supposed to NOT target women and children, yet those same women and children are killing them.
They had lengthy studies to determine whether it was ok, or not ok, to kill the children that toddled over with a live grenade in their hands.
No one wants to even imagine such a scenario -but it was determined that after a number of these incidents – the human mind becomes reprogrammed. It then loses the former ‘innocence’ morality view of the child – and sees them ONLY as the result of their actions – as enemies.
At the end of WWII we dropped two Atom Bombs on Japan, both of which hit civilian areas and killed hundreds of thousands of women and children – permanently disfiguring hundreds of thousands more.
How does that differ from the My Lai incident?
Because we did it from a distance and the Vietnam incident was a hands-on slicing and dicing?
Dead is dead.
The Vietnam era leftists were one of the most disgusting groups of people to ever rise (like scum) i this nation.
Unfortunately, some still exist and have not seen the error of their ways (Hanoi Jane.)
Tracy – I somehow doubt that.
And I also saw bigoted Archie Bunker type construction workers beating the holy hell out of teen-age kids carrying signs that just said “PEACE”.Anybody else remember the cops beating people indiscriminately in the streets of Chicago in ‘68?While the mayor was safely inside the dems convention, yelling “F#@ck you, you Jew”.
What do you doubt Gee?Ever heard of Kent State?
I am sure there were isolated incidents. However such incdents do not constitute a trend. As I have noted before, I also personally witnessed a VietNam vet beaten in his wheelchair by a gang of armed thugs. Those thugs were the Los Angeles Police Department. Shall I then assume that ALL police were like that with wheelchair-bound vets?
Damn Gee, you sound like some damned unamerican hitler-type to me.They haven’t repented yet?How about some re-education camps?
This is why the vet was beaten: “The Vietnam era leftists were one of the most disgusting groups of people to ever rise (like scum) i this nation.” He had become anti-war so that made him “scum” in the eyes of some people.
The most digusting huh?Behind Nazis and skinheads and the Fat Freddy Phelps Klan.What about the KKK?Explain Gee.
I’ve wondered when the anti-war crowd would drop the facade of caring for our troops. Hanoi Jane is back in her old role, let’s get it all out on the table. Please, folks, go ahead and publically demonize all members of the Armed Forces. If spitting isn’t genteel enough for you, remember verbal abuse works too. Please make your feelings known, loudly and in public.
The rest of us want to know who you are.
GSheridan says,No one wants to even imagine such a scenario -but it was determined that after a number of these incidents – the human mind becomes reprogrammed. It then loses the former ‘innocence’ morality view of the child – and sees them ONLY as the result of their actions – as enemies..Morg saysYour right we should put them in camps extract the gold from their teeth. Shave their heads use the hair for furniture stuffing. Those that could not work in the vietnamization projects would be eliminated.Problems solved.
Tracy – you forget that your beloved liberals were looting, rioting, and burning buildings at Kent State.
As for Phelps – he’s a Democrat, maybe YOU should explain him. You might want to read a history book -the problems with Nazis didn’t occur here. And no one is trying to whitewash what the KKK did – unlike the reporters who are trying to revise the history of the leftists.
NO matter how you try to dodge the truth – the leftists that treated our soldiers like crap in the Vietnam era – were/are the biggest shame this country has ever had to face.
Pathetic.
Russell,
I’ve often wondered the same thing, and it appears the time is NOW.
For the past four years they’ve tried to convince our nation that they honestly cared about our soldiers….but now the truth is coming out.
Their concern was little more than an act.
They’re beginning to show their true colors.
Again.
This is the way Morg would treat our soldiers:
—-
“Your right we should put them in camps extract the gold from their teeth. Shave their heads use the hair for furniture stuffing. Those that could not work in the vietnamization projects would be eliminated.”———–
If ever the liberal agenda was in doubt – that just cleared it up.
Pathetic.
Funny, sure-dumb.The eeeevil leftists were correct in their assesment and protest of the war. Same as today.Study your history sure-dumb.
They didn’t shoot looters in L.A. when they were rioting, but them evil kids sure deserved it.Bigot.
Oh, and you pathetic bigot….EVEN YOU can register as a democrat, but you’ll still wake up as a pathetic bigot….
gsheridan,dance monkey dance wingnuts like you only care about the ritual and ceremony of their uber nationalism you guys would have made good little Nazis.Viet Nam fell to the commies their country their choice did it make any difference? We lost 58000 for nothing.
This is what Tracy considers, “putting flowers in the ends of gun barrels.”
From Wikipedia:
—————-”The dispersal process began late in the morning with a police official, riding in a Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters pelted the Jeep with rocks, forcing it to retreat. One Guardsman was injured in the attack.
Just before noon, the Guard returned and again ordered the crowd to disperse. When they refused, the Guard used tear gas. Because of wind, the tear gas had little effect in dispersing the crowd, and some began a second rock attack with chants of “Pigs off campus!” The students also utilized the tear gas canisters and threw them back at the National Guardsmen. The only protection the soldiers had was their steel helmets. They had no body armor or face shields, although they had put on gas masks upon first using tear gas.”—————–
Yeah, right Tracy.
Anymore tall tales to tell us?
So – how’s your party’s poster-boy, Phelps, doing today? Did you guys have coffee this morning?
Morg – trashing our soldiers only shows your lack of respect and decency.
sure-dum you are so full of shit.you wanna play that game?Talk about poster boys!Your perverted boys RAN the party.And I suppose that one soldier hurt with a rock is justification for you! Damned bigot, you’d have been in the streets beating the protesters yourself.
Aw, Tracy, don’t get your panties all in a bunch now. You were caught lying and showing your anti-American face to the blog.
So what?
It’s not like everyone here didn’t already know the color of your hatred.
I was one of the troops how bout you?
Good deal, morg – if you were a soldier – you can use your own prescribed remedy of being “put in a camp, having the gold extracted from your teeth, head shaved or simply being eliminated if your don’t cooperate.”
Works for me.
I guess you had a good idea, after all.
Too bad I have to get to work – just when morg and Tracy are in full meltdown mode. I’d love to stay and watch the show.
Later traitors.
lol
Sheridan: Having lived most of my life in the South, where “Yes, Ma’am” and “Yes, Sir” were not “trained”, but simply a way of life, I’m sorry; but why don’t you get off your ass and go build some more “old folks’ concentration camps”, so they can wait to die. Your “off the wall” bullshit is getting as old as the folks in your camps. I can understand why your husband works 24/7. It’s got to be better than listening to you.
Sure-dum…….funk you.Bigot.I lied nowhere.Bring some facts, not just flames.
You’re great at over the top sarcasm and GOP sound bytes, but that’s about all.Here’s some of your posterboys.
Conservatives promote the idea that Democrats should hang their heads in shame over people like Larry Flint, a publisher of pornography, if they reveal that they vote Democratic. But political parties can’t control or be responsible for those who vote for their party’s candidates. What parties can control is whom they endorse to run under their banner for any public office. And the Democratic Party doesn’t promote people like Larry Flint for public office. Contrast that to the kinds of people the Republican Party regularly selects for positions of leadership in their party, people like:ÔÇ? [immorality:] In Connecticut, the holier-than-thou Republican party chose the mayor of one of the state’s largest cities as its candidate for the U.S. Senate. If Joe Lieberman had caved in to Republican demands in the year 2000 that he not run for relection to the Senate at the same time that he was running for the vice presidency, then our nation would have had a Republican Senator from Conn., named Philip Giordano at least until he was sentenced to serve his 37 year sentence in Federal prison as a result of the FBI investigating him for financial shenanigans and discovering in the process that this crooked, disgusting Republican office holder had been repeatedly molesting two pre-teen little girls related to his prostitute-mistress (in the mayor’s office among other places).There was more on this disgusting Republican office holder at : 1010wins.com/topstories, but it has since been removed.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Bob Packwood, Senator (R-Ore.), resigned in 1995 under a threat of public senate hearings related to 10 female ex-staffers accusing him of sexual harassment.ÔÇ? [corruption:] George Allen, US Senator (R-Virginia), if you can believe a book about him published by his own sister, is a brutal bully .ÔÇ? [corruption:] Leader of the House Republicans, Tom DeLay, has been the long time protector of promoters of slave labor, prostitution and abortion in a U.S. territory.Yet in 2002, The D. James Kennedy Center for Christian Statesmanship named DeLay “Distinguished Christian Statesman of the year.” “The Texas congressman openly shares his faith and has voluntary Bible studies with his staff.”The corruption of House Majority Leader, Tom DeLay, and his gang of “40 thieves” is so extensive that it takes whole web sites to cover, such as http://www.dropthehammer.org/corruption/, &http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_DeLay.
and now many MORE Republican Congressmen & women :ÔÇ? [immorality:] According to L. H. Carter, reported to be one of Newt Gingrich’s closest friends until a falling-out in 1979, “Newt is amoral. There isn’t any right or wrong, there isn’t any conservative or liberal. There’s only what will work best for Newt Gingrich.”Mary Kahn, wife of Mr. Gingrich’s Congressional campaign manager during the 1970s said, “Newt uses people and then discards them as useless. He really is a man with no conscience. He just doesn’t seem to care who he hurts or why.” Keep those to quotes in mind as you read what Mr. Gingrich told the Washington Post on January 3, 1995: “I have an enormous personal ambition. I want to shift the entire planet. And I am doing it.”ÔÇ? [immorality:] When Henry Hyde (R-Illinois) was a mere state representative back home in Illinois, being a devout Catholic husband and father of four sons, didn’t hamper his five (or seven) year affair with a married woman with three kids, an affair that continued even after the woman’s husband, Fred Snodgrass, found out about it and demanded that Hyde leave his wife alone. Nor did it prevent Hyde from later being honored by the Pope as an outstanding Catholic layman. When this leader of the Clinton impeachment process in the Congress was asked how he felt about his own infidelity and the breaking up that family, he exonerated himself on the basis that it was “a youthful indiscretion” (committed in his early forties when he was not much younger than Clinton!). This from “Mr. Roman Catholic Layman” and leading spokesman for the Catholic pro-life stance in the Congress. ( See Hypocrite of the House).ÔÇ? [immorality:] Bob Livingston (R-Louisiana) was about to replace Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House until he resigned in disgrace when it was revealed that he admitted to had been involved in several adulterous affairs, (while attempting to crucify Democratic President Clinton for having done much less)!ÔÇ? [immorality:] Bob Barr (R-Georgia): the principal sponsor of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, has been married three (or is it now four) times. And at a party in 1992, Barr actually licked whipped cream off the breasts of two women, neither of them his current wife. Now that’s family values!ÔÇ? [immorality:] Bill Thomas (R-California):This 11-term Republican is chairman of the Ways and Means subcommittee on Health. In June, (2003?) the Bakersfield Californian reported that Thomas, who is married, was having an affair with health care lobbyist Deborah Steelman, who steered huge campaign gifts to Thomas’ war chest. In an “open letter to friends and neighbors” (voters), Thomas did not deny the relationship, but said during his legislative career, ” . . . Any personal failures of commitment or responsibility to my wife, family, or friends are just that, personal. I have never traded a public responsibility for a personal one and I never will.”ÔÇ? [immorality:] Dan Burton (R-Indiana):The Chairman of the House Government Reform & Oversight Committee. He hates President Clinton so much that he publicly called him a “scumbag”. Following an expose, Burton was forced to admit that he fathered an out-of-wedlock child, a fact he denied for years.He has yet to admit, however, that during 38 years of marriage he has committed adultery with dozens of women, sexually assaulted others (including a lobbyist for Planned Parenthood), and kept mistresses on his campaign and public payrolls – to the tune of at least a half-million dollars.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Charles Canady (R-Florida), Judiciary Committee member. A leading opponent of abortion, Canady lied to his constituents about his adulterous affair with Sharon Becker, which caused her divorce from Florida businessman Robert Becker.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Dick Armey (R-Texas): as an economics professor before entering Congress, was accused of sexually harassing female students, according to the Dallas Observer.ÔÇ? [immorality:] John Peterson (R-Pennsylvania): has been accused of sexual harassment and hostile-work-environment claims by six women.ÔÇ? [corruption:] The State of S. Dakota is so sparsely settled that it has only one Congressman, “Wild Bill” Janklow, who has been elected by his Republican supporters for years either as Governor, Attorney General or Congressman. Many Native Americans believe Janklow guilty of rape or sexual indecency on Jancita Eagle Deer, a minor and legal infant in his custody and care, on or about January 13, 1967, on the Rosebud Indian Reservation, South Dakota. That charge has not be proved or disproved to date, but Janklow has a long series of other charges against him that have been proved including a dozen speeding charges, the most recent of which involved driving some 70 miles over the speed limit (i.e. through a stop sign) and killing another motorist. See much more about this great Republican office-holder who once got elected after telling his Republican supporters : ‘The only way to deal with the Indian problem in America,’ he admitted saying, is to put a gun in the AIM [American Indian Movement] leaders’ heads and pull the trigger.” : http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/03/08/21_janklow.htmlÔÇ? [immorality:] Helen Chenoweth (R-Idaho): one of first to condemn Clinton, admitted to having a six year extramarital affair with a married associate. The Spokane Spokesman-Review, but now she claims a pardon from a higher authority: “I’ve asked for God’s forgiveness, and I’ve received it,” she revealed. (She has since divorced and remarried – no doubt with the Lord’s blessing!-)ÔÇ? [immorality:] J.C. Watts (R-Oklahoma): has said “Character is simply doing right when no one is looking.” Watts has tried to cover up his out-of-wedlock child.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Connie Mack (R-Florida): another family values Republican who ran successfully for Congress now finds himself without a family, a bitter soon-to-be ex-wife, without custody of his children and dating Sonny Bono’s widow, a Palm Springs Congresswoman, in the process of divorce herself from her second husband.ÔÇ? [immorality:] John Schmitz (R-Orange County, CA), former extreme right-wing Republican fathered two children by a mistress — a former student named Carla Stuckle whom Schmitz taught when he was a professor at Santa Ana College. One of these children was once admitted to an Orange County hospital with hair tied in a square knot around his penis so tightly that it was almost severed.Congressman Schmitz’ daughter, Mary Kay LeTourneau, made national headlines when as a school teacher, she was arrested twice for having sex and producing two children with an underage student of hers (beginning when he was only 13 years old).ÔÇ? [immorality:] Don Sherwood (R-PA) Had a five year adulterous affair which only ended when his mistress sued him for physical abuse (and attempted murder?) in 2004.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl, which produced a child.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Donald “Buz” Lukens (R-Ohio) was found guilty of having sex with a minor and sentenced to one month in jail.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Ken Calvert (R-California) said in 1998, “We can’t forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky.” This is the same Christian Coalition ally, who was caught by police in 1993 receiving oral sex from a prostitute. His ex-wife also sued him for failure to pay alimony.ÔÇ? [immorality:] On July 20, 1983, the House voted to simultaneously censure two members of Congress for sexual misconduct, the first time it had ever done so.Dan Crane (R-Illinois) was censured for having sexual relations with a 17 year-old female page.Gerry Studds(D-Mass.) was censured for having sexual relations with a 17 year-old male page.Conservative Republicans try to get some kind of political advantage by treating these two cases as morally equivalent, or they speak only of the Democrat, Studds. But here’s the rest of the story that they don’t want people to know:ÔÇ? Repub. Crane was a married man at the time and a father of six young children, while Dem. Studds had been single at the time. As homosexuals, Studds and the page were not allowed to marry, but their relationship was so consensual that they had been together for ten years from the time of the original liason until 1983, when the “scandal” broke.ÔÇ? Neither of the two resigned from Congress; they both ran for re-election.ÔÇ? The Repub. Crane was defeated. The Dem. Studds was re-elected for 5 more terms for a total of 20 years.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Robert Bauman was campaigning for his fourth term as a Maryland Congressman in 1980. A practicing Roman Catholic with a wife and child, he was one of the most vocal conservatives in a very conservative Congress. He regularly rallied for old-fashioned values and attacked all supporters of abortion and homosexual rights. His campaign looked rock-solid, before it changed overnight with a series of shocking revelations. The public learned that Bauman had been charged with soliciting sex from a 16-year old boy he picked up at a gay bar, and that he had been the victim of an extortion scheme by a man who claimed to have had a sexual relationship with him. This, combined with an alcohol problem (which did not seem to bother his fellow Congressmen before), doomed his political career.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Sue Myrick, Congresswoman (R-NC), describes herself as a “devout Christian.” Yet she’s divorced and now married to the man with whom some say she has admitted committing adultery when she and he were married to their prior spouses.ÔÇ? [immorality:] Jim Bunn, (R-Oregon) With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then left his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll with a salary of $ 97,500.ÔÇ? Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman, currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his office. The medical examiner, Dr. Michael Berkland, ( who had his license revoked in Missouri for falsifying information in an autopsy report, before being hired in Florida,) ruled the case an accident, after giving conflicting information about the victim’s injuries and before even getting the results of blood tests he had ordered. He said he lied about the case because “The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head injury.” The Florida Medical Examiner’s Commission later fired him for failure to complete dozens of autopsy reports in 2001 and 2002, a violation of state statutes.[ see more at.morg
Posted February 5, 2007 at 9:09 am | Permalink
sheridan is a wingnutess priceless
GOOD MORNING rm64!!That’s some good shit you been sending.Had to use the living backwards stuff.
Dang Tracy, that took me several seconds to scroll over.
Good Morning!
Goddamn guys, it’s been a while since we’ve had such a huge bigoted dumbass like GS.Ain’t this fun?Damn, even the repubs here are crying WINGNUT!!
Yeah, you don’t wanna read that stuff outie.It’s ALL FACTUAL.A good overview of the Grand Ol’ Pervies!
Hi Trace: The one about “Roping the Deer” is actually a true story and the guy lives over in Cunningham. Also, heard last night, at a SB party, about a guy in Medicine Lodge that roped a coyote several years ago. Really bad plan. Reminded me of the lap dog chasing the Volkswagan … just exactly what the hell are you going to do when you catch it !!!! LOL.
I’ll tell you what – if I see anyone spitting at a veteran I’ll punch him. Unless, of course, it is an armed gang of Los Angeles Police officers. After all, if THEY are doing it they are justified since the veteran has become “anti-war scum”
The spitting on soldiers myth won’t die because the reich-wing needs it and uses it.
It’s like all the other bs myths they’ve concocted to justify really bad decisions on their part:
* we were “stabbed in the back” by leftists and Democrats during the Vietnam War. Otherwise we would have won.
* Kerry didn’t earn his medals. All three purple hearts and the silver star and the bronze star with V for Valor were based on lies. It was a vast left-wing conspiracy involving the Navy.
* We could have won in Vietnam if only we didn’t have to fight “fair.” While we were observing the Geneva Conventions, the enemy would do anything. Sylvester Stallone as Rambo: “Sir, do we get to win this time?”
* People that don’t support our president while we fight in stupid wars that increase rather than decrease our nation’s threat level are “commie loving, traitors, America-hating, pinko fag junkies” and “why don’t you just move to Russia?”
If you support an eight-year witch hunt against the Clintons’ however, you’re on the side of truth, justice, and the American way.
* We could have won in Vietnam if the American people had just supported the war more.
* We have to fight the commies “over there.” Otherwise, we’ll be fighting them over here.
If a lot of these myths sound like the same ones we’re hearing now from the reich-wing regarding Iraq, that’s no surprise.
Had Iraq worked, it would have been the perfect cure for “the Vietnam syndrome,” the fear of full-scale military invasion for political ends.
Unfortunately, Iraq isn’t the cure. It’s the reinforcing example.
But never fear, the reich-wing’s lust for world domination by the world’s biggest military can never be repressed by object lessons like Vietnam and Iraq.
I knew many Vietnam vets in my undergrad days at KU, coming back to school on the GI Bill; none of them ever recounted a “spitting” incident. Same with clients over the years. Does this mean that it didn’t happen? No, it merely means it didn’t happen to any of these folks. I doubt, however, it happened in any great numbers.
Dear Tracy,
You have just been put on my list of nuts-to-ignore.
This whole thread is pretty much meaningless. Who cares anymore? Your last tirade pretty much identifies you as one of the hard-left-nitwits.
I still love ya, you make the right lood good!
Hank
Ben, you knock em’ down and I’ll kick em’! HA.EEEEEvil libs we are, right.Yeah, rm64 that was hilarious.I’ve done a lot of stupid shit over the years, but I’m not sure I can top that one.
Yeah, those poor hippie protesters got slimed with spit. Show some news stories, better yet photos.
Show a news story or arrest on that Vietnam Vet that got beaten by police in a wheel chair. Put up or shut up.
Can’t find any? Amazing!
You won’t find any news articles about protesters throwing the feces or garbage of their choice at military buses as they entered military installations either.
Imagine this, a single soldier comes back across the pond. He is in a daze, the only thing he hears is a drone of unreality. For 18 months he has been rain-soaked, sun-baked and propagandize by Hanoi Jane and her legions. His self-assessment includes pride of uniform and shame of himself because of the huge amount of anti-war propaganda and media.
He does not see a welcome back crowd as the aircraft he is on touches down back in the “World.”
He is loaded on a military bus where people standing outside airport are screaming and yelling at him, shaking their fists, giving him the finger and holding up signs that say baby killer, murderer and other expletives that can’t be written here.
He arrives near the military post, where protesters are kept outside of the gate by the snarling teeth of two or three sentry dogs and military police. He is debriefed and told that there is a curfew of midnight and then the post gate is locked.
He is told not to wear a uniform when he goes off post because of protesters and people in general who might want to take advantage of the returning soldier.
His ears ring along the same frequency of his mind. Filled with memories of sights, sounds, oppressive heat and sing song language he never understood. He is relieved to hear English once again, but it sounds foreign. It is undisciplined, hardly respectful or what he expected; thanks for sacrificing.
He can’t get clean, no matter how many times he showers. Something is lingering that just won’t wash off. Civilians stare at him with his shortly cropped hair. They turn away and talk amongst themselves.
He goes back to his home and the only people that will talk to him or listen are the people at the barbershop, 40 years his senior.
He misses his high school friends, they are all gone from the town. What is left are people that never knew him or care to understand.
He turns to liquor to become self-absorbed. He enjoys that the people at the bar are more willing to converse. He keeps going back.
He hears whispers about his conduct, “another loser back from ‘Nam.” He doesn’t give up and applies for a job at a gas station. He figures he will go back to college.
Arriving on the college campus are people laying in the grass, smoking weed talking. They stare at him and his shortly cropped hair. He decides not to enroll.
After working long hours at $1.50/hour he becomes discomforted by his status. His friends are gone, no one left to talk to and no where to go.
He makes a decision that he fears the most, he goes back to the recruiter and re-ups. After a few months he’s back in country. Three months after his arrival he loses his right eye when his ton and a half overturns trying to avoid a water buffalo.
He returns home to a VA hospital. He is discharged, no job, can no longer drive and his visions of coming home a hero is gone.
He becomes desperate for funds and robs a store. He is shot dead by police when he tries to run.
No one knows him now, but God. He lies beneath a flat stone overgrown with grass. One day, Another funeral of one of the town residents is going on. They walk over his grave not knowing he is there.
He watches from his grave wondering why no one wept over him. No one gave remarks about his life or welcomed him home or bid him farewell. He falls back into an eternal sleep, forgotten.
Years later, an Am Vet plants a small flag on his grave and salutes him. A tear falls from his decayed eye socket. He still hurts inside but cannot feel it, but the feeling for sure is still there.
His spirit ears ring with the sounds of oppressive heat, drowning rain and a sing song language he could not understand. He cries to return to the country he remembered.
But he is gone and so is the memory of him. No one spat on him, for what they did was worse. They forgot what he gave for his country. They forgot he wore the uniform of his heroic forefathers. They forgot where he is buried.
He has the worst of all fates, forgotten and dead.
No one spat on him. The wind blows passed his grave barely moving the blades of grass now covering his grave marker.
He was my brother in arms. I found him all alone and sadly forgotten. Every year I take my plastic bucket, shears and a scrub brush. I bathe his grave marker and show him pictures of my family as they have progressed through the years. I weep for him and thank him for serving. I long for his company knowing there is no hope for him to return.
But I will not forget nor will I never forget to defend his service over those that who would dishonor him.
Amen Brother, Amen.
VT – your experience parallels mine at MIT and UCLA.
Thanks Hank.I really like the list of GOP poster boys and girls.Hope you guys lood real good!Next tirade please.
Did anyone catch this line: “The researcher did find evidence, though, that anti-war protesters were spit-slimed by pro-war Americans.”
Of course, that’s okay, because the protestors were American hating, pinko fag junkies.
The reich-wing has only one core belief–reality is whatever we say it is.
Roscoe–
The people that should be condemned are the people that sent him.
Dang, the fires are hot already this morning!
Having lived the Vietnam Era and actively protested the war, I can say without reservation that the overwhelming majority of us were supportive of the soldiers while being vehemently against the war.
Just as we support the troops now while being against the War on Iraq.
The reich wing continues to spout the “you can’t be against the war and support the troops” nonsense. Nothing could be more false.
Our men and women in the Armed Services have been streched to the limit – it has long since been time to bring them home.
And that is the greatest support we can give our troops.
My father says he was never spat upon, nor spoken to harshly, none of that, and he knows of no one who had that happen to.
Did you cut and paste that from somewhere Roscoe, or did you actually live it?
I remember, in undergrad school, the beginnings of the anti-war movement. One night, a group of fanatic protesters were planning to burn down the ROTC armory. I am not ashamed to say that it frightened me. I called my father, long distance, about midnight, and expressed my thoughts and fears. After listening to me for several minutes, he simply stated, “Support them. Burn the son of a bitch down, but only if they have something to rebuild in it’s place that is better. If they don’t, you’re just collaborating with a bunch of f**king arsonists.” I’ve never forgotten that moment … and, to me, is pretty much said it all.
Like every movement, there are always a few that stand out based on sheer idiocy. The Vietnam Era anti-war movement was no different. There were a few that were attracted to the potential for violence far more than any principled opposition to the war.
In 1970, I was part of an informal campus radical group that sought to protest the war in response to the Kent State murders earlier that year. As with any group, funding was an issue. Two members of the organization suggested that we should rob banks to finance the movement.
Shortly thereafter the organization ceased to existed, hijacked by a few violent extremists.
A few idiots do not make the movement.
Hi Political Mom
No I did not copy that. I wrote that from my heart. I met this young black man when we were both in advanced infantry training. We both took the pond hop, but were stationed in separate areas. He was an infantryman and I was a medic. I went to look him up as we both agreed to do so. I found he had died and investigated what happened to him.
It was sadly a story of sorrow and a confused young man. He was still feeling the sting of racial segregation and the isolation of a vet returning from the Nam.
He never really had the same chances as others. I honor him for his service and bear the guilt as one of those who forgot him. I vow to never to forget him again.
I challenge all to take a plastic bucket, a scrub brush and some shears and visit a grave of a vet of any war. Tend to their ground, share your family history and tell them you appreciate their service.
They will listen if you talk.
WSC – we had one guy at UCLA who tried to foster violence – a guy named Ted Kozak (sp?). He was enrolled as a student. It was only later that we learned the ‘rest of the story’ about that Sargent in the LAPD. Made real good wanted posters.
WSC: How true, friend, how very, very true.
Yea, I lood(k) good, damn good! Sorry for the typo, but if that’s all you got…
Hank
Hi Hank – you tipe almust as gud as i do!
That’s not all I got.What’s your point?All you said was I was a nut and you’re going to ignore me.And I thanked you for that.Next tirade please!
Hey Ben,
I’m at work and when the boss is coming I don’t have time to proof read before I post!
Hank
Turns out the wounded vet Spaudling just gets insulted everywhere he goes.
At airports he gets harangued by security, at Walter Reed Hospital he gets a threatening Christmas card, and at peace rallies, he even got spit at, according to the NY Times.
Here’s a transcript from Fox and Friends.
STEVE DOOCY: Joshua, after having been to that peace rally, what’s your impression of those people?
SPARLING: Well, you know, obviously I’m not going to judge all of them, because it wasn’t everybody, and there was a couple of peaceful people that actually just walked by. But for the most part, there was just people lining the fence just screaming and jumping over it trying to get at us. A couple of folks actually were waiting for clubs to meet with me after it was over with, and the police had to stop them from bull-rushing us on the sidewalk.
*****
Uh . . . yeah . . . there’s nothing scarier than a mob of peace activists with clubs.
Sheesh. The man doesn’t even lie well.
Life is not black and white, war is not black and white. I believe that is why we are in such a mess with the Iraq War because Bush has made it a ‘us’ against ‘them’ contest and if ‘you’re not with us, you’re against us’. That rhetoric leaves very little room for diplomacy, of which is needed now that Iraq has turned into a civil war.
I support the troops but I do not support the invasion of Iraq. I felt it was wrong when Bush started the whole mess and I still think he is wrong today.
But what gets me riled up is all these conservatives who are so gung ho about thost libs hating the troops are also not mad at Bush for not sending in enough troops initially and then not supplying the soldiers with all the equipment our soldiers needed to do their job from the start (such as their armor?). What is up with that? Why are the conservatives (ie Bush supporters) NOT upset with their commander in chief to short-supply our soldiers for what they need but yet Halliburton and the other private contractors in Iraq are making billions of dollars in profit, of which major fraud has been proven.
I do not see any disgust about the management of the Iraq War from the conservatives. Rather, I see their indignation and wrath aimed at anyone that dares to question Bush.
It is up to the Iraqis to win their own war. We cannot make them stand up and fight. It is way past time to make those benchmarks really mean something and consequences need to be meted out when Iraqis do not meet those benchmarks.
hank – if u prufreed as gud as i do it wont matter!
;^)
hey capn – is that the same Steve Doocy behind the lies about Obama and Hillary? The ones that even his boss at FAUX said shouldn’t have been aired?
Why, yes, it is, Ben.
Good catch.
I’ve often wondered if some of the alleged spitters might have been pro-war plants, working to fuel the fires. It often only takes one to lead a crowd to mob hysteria when emotions are running high.
GS,Nothing in your quote from wikipedia mentioned anything about burning and looting at Kent State. I have things needing done, or I’d check for myself, so would you mind finding that particular part and posting it?
Tracy,I was in the middle of race riots at KSC of Pittsburg back in the fall of 1969. “Scared” is putting it mildly. I dropped out not long after that, for various reasons, that only being one.
Hank, thank you for ignoring me.Good job.
Ben,
That’s KAKE’s former Steve Douchebag.
RD, do you remember “CornStock”?(named because it was a big concert in a corn field)Somewhere between Parsons and Pittsburg.
RD, some extremists burnt the ROTC building.Nobody was injured in the arson.Nobody was charged with arson.The Ohio National Gaurd KILLED 4 and wounded 9 others.One NG was injured with a rock.
More on Sparling, plus some YouTube vids in the ‘Comment’ section, of him taunting the peace protestors.
‘Still more questions for the NY Times regarding the alleged spitting incident’http://mediamatters.org/items/200701300012
Tracy,
I remember Kent State. In fact, I seem to remember my ex having a book written about it. Sadly, I never read it. Not enough time had gone by. Maybe now I could.
The photo of the girl with the flower and the NGman with the rifle should be indelibly etched in anyone’s mind who saw it.
I forgot to add that I seriously doubted GS’s comments, chalking them up to the usual urban legends. However, she was given the opportunity to prove them. Pretty fair, I’d say.
With millions of vets returning to tens of millions stateside I am certain that there were some cases of spitting on them. I never heard of any of that from vets I knew but with that many it likely happened. What I DID hear about was a lot of potential employers refusing to give a vet a chance at a job, claiming that they were all losers and druggies. And these were “good patriotic businessmen”; not anti-war hippies.
At Kent State the students were gunned down at fairly long range with high-powered rifles. One problem was that Republican Governor Rhodes deliberately sent a fatigued Guard unit there right after doing Teamster strike duty.
Michner wrote a book about the killings at Kent State. It makes good reading; covers a lot of background of the inexcusable killings.
I knew several soldiers that went to Vietnam and never heard them say they were ever spit on but I have heard them say they struggled with what happened over there. I have been pleased to see the response of strangers when my boys came home on leave over the holidays. I have seen people put aside their feelings about the war and support the troops. I figure I have given enough with both my boys being in harms way. I can’t take those who defend GW seriously because they aren’t being honest if they continue to say going there was the right thing to do given what we know to be truth now. And I do believe that we would have been in Vietnam a lot longer if there hadn’t been an anti-war movement. Not one good thing came from Vietnam except a lot of dead soldiers!
Rox – “I’ve often wondered if some of the alleged spitters might have been pro-war plants, working to fuel the fires. It often only takes one to lead a crowd to mob hysteria when emotions are running high.”
Interesting point- having watched the classic “outside agitator” turn out to be a Sargent with the LAPD it makes perfect sense.
I wore my uniform when I returned from Nam. I still remember one couple on the flight asking me if I had to get right home, as I was welcomed to be their guest in Chicago. Did get some grief from a few younger people after I returned home, but not from many.
Hanoi Jane Fonda is responsible for the beatings of Communist- Held US Prisoners of War.What she did, on foreign soil, against our own people, is vile.
I was in the Marine Reserves in the late 70’s.I made the mistake of wearing a Marine Corps T-shirt to class a few times.That mistake hurt my journalism grades quite a bit.Jon Montre, the photojournalism instructor at WSU, rarely showed us any examples of great “photojournalism” that weren’t glorifying leftism and putting down America, from that point forward. At one point, I had my hand in a cast and he refused to allow someone else to help me load my camera or develop my film, under threat of being flunked out of class for cheating.I finished the class to spite him. I knew he wanted me to quit.
Not spit, no.But contempt and discrimination and a haughty, smug, superior attitude towards the military that was common in journalism and especially common on college campuses.
I told Montre that his beloved “peace movement” killed more people than Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon combined. He laughed, of course, thinking it impossible that his actions also had consequences.
Boat people, Poll Pot, the savage killings and torture of every South Vietnamese who worked with the United States.The Communist North even purged the remnants of the former Viet Cong, just to consolidate their hold on power.
By the way, the leftists also don’t like to admit that Congress quit the war, due to leftist pressure, and that the U.S. Military in NO WAY “lost” the war.
The truth is, the last 3 or 4 years of American military operations in Vietnam were a huge success.The Vietcong were nearly eliminated as a fighting force.
And, of course, the United States never lost a single major battle in Vietnam.
Not one.
Our veterans deserve great respect.
Horrible things happen in war. War itself is a horrible thing.
Let the failure of America to keep our promises to our friends in Vietnam, and our failure to support our troops, be a lesson to everyone.
War is a horrible thing.
Often, running from war is even worse.
More people died in the 3 years after American combat forces left South East Asia than in the 3 years before we left.
The press wont tell you that. Why would the press tell the truth about anything else?
Well Paul, looks like you went to college in a hotbed of radicalism while I went to conservative schools (MIT and UCLA); my observations were the opposite.
Pol Pot would never have gained power had it not been for Lon Nol; whose dictatorship collapsed and enabled him to gain power. Had the CIA not overthrown Sihanouk the Khmer Rouge could not have gained power.
Nature – and politics – abhors a vacuum.
Paul, you are 99.99 percent full of shit and you know it.
The government of South Vietnam was as corrupt and evil as the worst of what the North could have come up with. Vietnam today is a peaceful country with a growing economy.
Supporting our troops does not mean blind allegiance to the president. Supporting our troops does not mean falling into lockstep with the Republican agenda.
Those of you on the far right would like us to believe that the only way is the president’s way.
Sorry, Paul, but this is OUR country and we do have a voice in how it is run.
This is our country and you cannot take that from us, no matter what shit you throw at us.
I had a classmate in an urban studies class who was VERY right-wing. The instructor (a Harvie) was rather left – quite a bit to the left of me. Made for a very interesting semester. The key was, the student backed up his arguements with logic – basically we debated issues.
I got a ‘B’ in the class. He got an ‘A’. He disagreed strongly, but did it without being diasagreeable.
Omigosh!
All you were at Universities during Nam!
It must have been pure hell!
I mean all those Viet Cong shooting at you!
LMAO!
I see the children are out playing late tonight.
I can’t help but notice that DA is incapable of commenting without using profanity.
Golfnut,
If it bothers you, perhaps you need to find a church sponsored blog, complete with bells and whistles that won’t allow the language that so offends you.
GSheridan and Econ101: Excellent revisionism. You probably just can’t stand the fact that you’re on the wrong side of history and public opinion – again. I mean, blaming liberals for ‘losing’ the Vietnam War – good Lord. Perhaps you have forgotten that the United States is a democracy. A strong majority of people were against the war and elected those who were against it as well. Cutting off funding was the only way to end US involvement in the war, WHICH IS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANTED AND VOTED FOR, and the Congress did just that. Its called DEMOCRACY. We will see the same thing again in 2008 because of another disastrous war of choice.
I know the fascists will attempt to pin the blame for Iraq on the liberals, as they try to regarding Vietnam, but its not going to work. The country is once again opposed to the continuation of a disastrous war, and the Republicans will take an even worse beating in 2008 as a result. The right will then blame not only liberals, but the majority of Americans for being ‘cowards’ or ‘lacking resolve’ – nevermind the fact that most of those making these claims are cowards themselves who never served but blindly follow leaders whose policies kill our soldiers. This will further prove the right’s fundamental disrespect for democracy and will marginalize them even more in the eyes of the American people.
Face it wingnuts: the 500 pound albatross of the catastrophic war is around your neck solely. And no ‘leftists-disrespect-troops-and-lose-war’ propaganda redux will change that.
Shoot – too bad I didn’t get to stick around yesterday to see that vein popping out on Tracy’s neck. lol
But when all is said and done – it has been verified that there WERE spitters – and knowing that, the libs who deny it – show their American hatred.
Add to that – the fact that at least three of the libs here posted VERY hateful comments AGAINST our soldiers, and any doubt about the voracity of the claims is laid to rest.
Libs promoting lies.
Move along folks. Nothing new here.
No vein popping here you twit.You’re the one with the panty wad baby.As usual you don’t bring shit here except some hateful crap trying to keep the shit stirred.GS, you are the poster child.For everything old, bigoted, bitter and hateful.Have a nice day, you angry old hag.
The only thing it proves ddub, is that Politicians can’t keep their stinking hands out of military conflicts and let the military run them.
Politicians want to micro manage everything including what goes on in a war and who is shooting at who and for what reason and when to engage them.
That’s all fine and well on the floor of the Senate or in the House Chamber, but it sucks big time for the soldier who must make a decision in a micro second by using flawed rules of engagement.
We won WWII because we were brutal and kept post war power control of the defeated for as long as possible.
As frightening as that sounds, that is the only way a country will be successful from start to finish in a Wartime and Post War process.
Micro managers need to get the hell out of the war business or go peacenik and never fight anyone for any reason including self defense.
“Move along folk. Nothing new here.”
GS, so why did you bring the subject up again? Having trouble moving on? I have to agree with Tracy, you are an angry person.
Tracy appears to be the angry one from what I have read.
Why didn’t you bring up your liberal friends addressing the same subject?
Are they having trouble moving on too?
Hmmm?
Still not angry.Just because I speak to wingnuts, twits and idiots the same way they speak to others, what makes you think I’m angry?It’s a GREAT day to be me.
Is there something I can help you with?Do you need something here?Have a point to make?Or are you just somebody’s shit stick, being used to stir it up?Just wondering.
Bad spitters.Bad libs.Bad, bad.
Eier – you’re correct, Tracy is one rabid gal. Half the time I read her posts I can’t decided whether or not she is typing them while drunk. The sentences are disjointed; she can’t follow a topic to save her life.
I get such a big kick out of watching her meltdowns.
TracyTroll – now THAT fits her to a “T.”
“Tracy is one rabid gal.”
Tracy is male and a non-drinker.
Is there something you actually want GS?Let me know and I’ll work with you, huh?
And it’s still a great day to be me.
email WSC
A boy named Tracy? No wonder.
What I WANT, Tracy, is for you to grow up. As long as you come on these threads flinging baseless accusations – you’ll get the same treatment.
If you can learn to stick to the topic – fine, but if you want to play dirty – you picked the wrong person to challenge.
Now, quit acting like a little girl.
Yeah, well I don’t need for you to police my posts Nurse Ratched.Thanks anyway.
What baseless accusations? None.You’ve never countered anything I’ve posted with a credible reply anyway, so back at ya’.
God, you are hilarious, GSure! You ought to take that act on the road.
It worked for Stephen Colbert!
Yew haw, pretending to be a hardcore right wing yahoo! That is some funny stuff! Damn, you sound really convincing – sometimes I actually think that you are really a true reich winger.
Dang, Gee, you are one funny woman.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/05/AR2007020501492.html“…the soldier said,… “They don’t even respect us anymore. They spit at us, they throw rocks at us. It wasn’t like that before.” ”
The last paragraph, page 3, sums it up very well.
Tracy – you’ve never posted anything WORTH replying to….
You use filthy language – innuendo – and totally false accusations – aimed at anyone that disagrees with you.
Maybe that actually frightens some faint-of-heart posters, but it doesn’t scare me one whit.
I enjoy watching your blood boil and I have a pretty good idea of what you look like behind your monitor, spraying with spittle as you pound out another senseless post.
LOL – you’re a hoot, Tracy. But I’m not convinced that you’re a non-drinker. Something had to kill all those brain cells.
Evidently sure-dumb doesn’t give a rat’s ass about bringing real stuff to the table, just coming here to flame people.Some bad ass, NO FACTS.It’s not that hard to do suredumb.On my FIRST attempt:The Myth Of The “Spitting Myth”Like most other people, I have often heard stories about veterans who were spit on by revolting hippies when they came back from the Vietnam War. That’s why I was quite surprised to run across a recycled article in Slate that claims it didn’t happen. In part, Slate’s piece reads,
“Although it’s impossible to disprove a negative, there is no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier returning from Vietnam. Holy Cross sociology professor Jerry Lembcke devoted an entire book to demolishing the spit myth, and in 2000, in this “Press Box” article, Slate press critic Jack Shafer reprised Lembcke’s findings when the New York Times and U.S. News & World Report repeated the myth inside the same week.”
So according to Slate, there is simply “no evidence that anybody ever gobbed on a soldier.” Moreover, if you click on the link from the article, you’ll see this quote from a May of 2000 piece in Slate about the same subject…
“Lembcke, a professor of sociology at Holy Cross and a Vietnam vet, investigated hundreds of news accounts of antiwar activists spitting on vets. But every time he pushed for more evidence or corroboration from a witness, the story collapsed–the actual person who was spat on turned out to be a friend of a friend. Or somebody’s uncle. He writes that he never met anybody who convinced him that any such clash took place.”
So Slate has been saying for YEARS now that not only is it untrue (to the best of their knowledge) that anyone has ever spit on a Vietnam Vet, but that no one can even turn up a SINGLE PERSON who was spat on.
Well, maybe it’s because I’ve noticed that liberals have a tendency to revise history when they find it unflattering or perhaps it’s just because I didn’t believe the people at Slate, but I decided to do a bit of research to try to confirm this story.
So I headed over to Google and typed in “I was spit on” & “Vietnam.” Imagine my surprise (not) as I immediately ran across several Vietnam vets talking about being spit on. Take Mike Teter for instance,
“Teter said he supports the people’s right to protest, but he’s seen protesters cross the line. When he came home from Vietnam after spending a tour building infrastructure for the Army, it was “the wackos” waiting at the bus station in Mobile, he remembered.
“I was spit on, threatened,” Teter said. “They had to escort me onto the bus (to keep me from getting hurt).”
Then there’s Vietnam vet Kevin Cooper who said,
“When I arrived home in California, I was treated like someone with the plague. I was spit on, yelled at, threatened and looked upon as a mass murderer.”
One could also look to the experiences of Gene Stocks who says,
“When I returned home, I was spit on in the airport, called a ‘baby killer’ and had things thrown at me. It was the same for the other vets – there was lots of animosity toward those of us who had gone and done our duty. We were treated like second-class citizens.”
You know what it took for me to completely blow Slate out of the water on this story? Less than five minutes and access to Google. In fact, I found these stories (among others) on my FIRST SEARCH.
So why didn’t Slate fact check this story and how can it be that a guy who wrote a WHOLE BOOK on this subject didn’t actually find anyone who was spit on? Draw your own conclusions, but I’m of the opinion that there are many people on the left who prefer to buy into a sugarcoated version of reality rather than face up to the disgraceful behavior their ideological brethren engaged in during the Vietnam War.
Now, the next question is: will Slate retract the story? My advice is not to hold your breath…
Now quit bothering me unless you wanna actually discuss something besides your worn platitudes about liberals.
Thanks, WS, glad I could brighten your day.
You’ve certainly kept me amused during my lunch hour. I
Last post is a perfect example.I ask for specifics, you come back with nothing.
Aggressive stupidity, that’s all you bring.Damn.
Focus suredumb.research.facts.logic.
Spraying with spittle?sheesh.Lady you need mental health services.
Tracy-Feeling a bit rabid today?;)spraying with spittle and all…
GS is just picturing herself living in one of those ‘camps’ she builds. Premature altzheimers.
Lembcke has made the list of the top 100 most Liberal Professors in the US. His book and claim is no surprise.
Tracy is right about Liberals revising history to suit their agendas.
LOL – the natives are restless today.
Tracy – the links to firsthand accounts of the spitting were already posted.
Why should I bother to supply you with information you seemingly missed the first time around?
Maybe a reading comprehension course would bode you well.
God, you are hilarious, Gee! You are really playing it to the hilt today.
Is Eier your sidekick?
Funny stuff!
RealPat writes:”GS is just picturing herself living in one of those ‘camps’ she builds. Premature altzheimers.”————-
That is too funny. First, I don’t build ‘camps,’ secondly – you spelled Alzheimer’s wrong.
Maybe that indicates that YOU have it? I mean – if the shoe fits and all….go ahead and kick yourself with it.
lol
Thanks for a jolly time, folks, but unfortunately, work beckons me.
Do any of you actually work?
Do you?
Here’s a description of GS.
Trolling refers to deliberate and intentional attempts to disrupt.Trolling is deliberate violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces.
Trolling is not necessarily the same as vandalism (although vandalism may be used to troll).A vandal may just enjoy defacing a webpage, insulting random users, or spreading some personal views in an inappropriate way.
A troll deliberately exploits weaknesses of human nature or of an online community to upset people.There are many types of disruptive users that are not trolls.Reversion warriors, POV warriors, cranks, impolite users, and vocal critics of the host blog structures and processes are not trolls.The idea of defining trolling is in many ways comical at best.The nature of trolls is to slip from any definition intended to constrain their actions and to find new and innovative ways to be aggravating.
But it is not possible to identify everything someone might do to deliberately try to wreak havoc on the blog.For this reason, no enforcement whatsoever has been set up against trolls.The basic mindset of a troll is that they are far more interested in how others react to their posts, than in the usual concerns of: accuracy, veracity, comprehensiveness, and overall quality.If a troll gets no response to their spurious posts, then they can hardly be considered a troll at all.The basic policy regarding trolling is simple: please refrain.
“Face it wingnuts: the 500 pound albatross of the catastrophic war is around your neck solely. And no ‘leftists-disrespect-troops-and-lose-war’ propaganda redux will change that.”
I agree with your sentiment, ddub, but unfortunately this albatross is around all of our necks and the necks of our grandchildren who will be paying back the Chinese for this war.
I strongly agree with the latter half of the above. It is amazing to me the complete lack of anything that GS, Eier, Fleety have in regard to why this is a good/justified war. Even, outlander, whom I believe is a good man & has been a loyal defender of Bush, will admit that Iraq “in retrospect” seems like a mistake. “You are a liberal and bad” stuff is pretty darn pathetic in terms of “discussing” this issue.
“you’re a lib” – that is so powerful in refuting points/arguments.
Kind of reminds me of the loser in the American Idol, tonight. She said “who are those judges, why Simon isn’t even an American.” The rebuttal really worked in discrediting his comments, not!