Not only was prewar intelligence wrong about Iraq, postwar planning, such as it was, also badly missed the mark. Military PowerPoint slides from August 2002, obtained by the National Security Archive, predicted that the United States would have as few as 5,000 troops in Iraq by December 2006, the New York Times reported. Instead, we have about 132,000 troops there and will be surging 21,500 more. And instead of the stable, pro-American democracy that was predicted, our mission now is to prevent total chaos.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Daniel on ACORN stole election?
- Daniel on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on ACORN stole election?
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
- JWink on Will GOP contenders be nice to Obama?
182 Comments
But still, evidence to the contrary, everybody knows it’s the liberals’ fault.
Wash, spin, repeat.
BILL CLINTON!
MONICA!
BLUE DRESS!
And now we are asked to believe them some more?
Ben, forget Monica and the dress – gross as that thought is….but Clinton DID figure prominently in the idea that we needed to remove Saddam from power.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!
GREETED AS LIBERATORS!!!!!
FLOWERS AND SWEETS FOR THE TROOPS!!!!
SIX DAYS, SIX WEEKS, CERTAINLY NOT SIX MONTHS!!!!!
This was posted on the open thread, but it bears repeating for the diehard Bushies…
The difference between the Clinton and Bush positions are very simple – one that the Bushie choose to ignore.
When Clinton made his policy change regarding Iraq, Saddam was not allowing the UN Inspector in to verify that there were no WMD programs.
When Bush attacked Iraq in March of 2003, the Inspectors had to leave Iraq to avoid being killed in the invasion.
The UN Inspectors were well on the way to PROVING that there was no WMD program when Bush decided to launch an invasion.
Simple.
As for Iran, General Pace has stated, without reservation, that there is NO PROOF that the Iranian government is actively supporting the insurgency.
That is enough for me, at this point.
I wonder if there have been any lessons learned from this blunder in judgement.
Its strange that the military got this part of the puzzle so wrong, when the State Dept. had a 5 million dollar study that accurately predicted many of the secular problems now seen.
What might have happened if they pooled their expertise!
The slide show shows an initail flooding of Iraq with 270,000 troops in order to enforce order BEFORE significant resistence could become organized. That might have prevented the slide into civil war. Instead, Bush made the decision to ignore that and to ensure chaos. Perhaps, had Bush paid attention to his advisors, we might have been able to pull it off. Instead, Bush ordered that the invasion ba carried out in such a manner as to insure ultimate chaos and civil war.
Well said WSClark… I would really like to see a Bushie respond…
Ben – since the insurgents don’t identify themselves with a uniform, we don’t know who they are affiliated with.
Lately, more evidence that Iran is interfering is coming to light.
How would you feel if you learned that what we now deem a ‘civil war’ was really an Iranian-backed insurgency?
Would that make any difference to you?
Wouldn’t the shorter list be of contries that are NOT actively trying to influence the Iraqi situation?
Yes, it would make a difference. IF I had credible evidence. I suspect that what IS happening is that Iran is giving some help to Shiite factions while Saudi Arabia is helping the Sunnis and alQuada.
You are correct, the citizens of a country who are resisting its occupation by foreign troops often do not wear uniforms. Their identification would be by nationality – i.e. Iraqi. I don’t think the French and Polish resistence did during WW2.
Add to the pot the fact that we have created 3 million refugees. About a million in Syria, 700,000 in Jordan, hundreds of thousands in Iran, many in Egypt, etc. If they try to return home are they then ‘foreign fighters’? Who should be responsible for supporting US-created homeless refugees?
Truth be told, it is both comical and hypocritical that the Government you criticize so vehemently in making errors in something as complicated as military action is the same Government you wish to trust with your health and retirement.
More evidence that Bush and the neo-con schemers of this war were completely and totally wrong from day one.
Two million people marched in the streets protesting this invasion and occupation, and it didn’t slow Bush Co down one bit.
The sin is upon their heads and the people who supported them.
YOU are to blame. Every death is a death that YOU helped contribute to.
May God have mercy on your soul.
“it is both comical and hypocritical that the Government you criticize so vehemently”
WAIT a minute!
It’s not “government” that’s the problem–it’s Worst. President. Ever.
Don’t blame “the system” for the culpability of a single horrible man.
It is not the government in general that we do not trust, it is the BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
There is a significant difference.
I would not trust George W Bush to change my cat’s kitty litter box.
“more evidence is coming to light”
Isnt that what the bushbots said about WMD?
“Wait, the proof is here, just wait for us to find it. We get new clues every day. WMD! Flowers! Liberators! Mission Accomplished!
Now we should trust this preznit about “proof” on iran? He said yesterday he doesnt need to be able to prove it, he just KNOWS it!
Have another glass of kookaide.
“When Bush attacked Iraq in March of 2003, the Inspectors had to leave Iraq to avoid being killed in the invasion.”
No the UN Inspectors were thrown out by Saddam. Mr. Clark you are being revisionist.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Truth be told, it is both comical and hypocritical that the Government you criticize so vehemently in making errors in something as complicated as military action is the same Government you wish to trust with your health and retirement.”
THAT is scarey! Yes the revisionists are out in full left winger force. They fail to mention that congresss was FULLY BRIEFED and VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY for this war. But we can see whom has balls and whom does not. We also see whom has backbone and whom does not.
I could be completely wrong about this and I’m sure you’ll all let me know that in a rather uncensored manner but if I remember correctly, Bush wanted to use more troops in the beginning but was talked out of that. If that is correct and the article above is correct, maybe we wouldn’t have ended up with our current chaotic mess if it had been done correctly in the first place…
“No the UN Inspectors were thrown out by Saddam”
Nonsense, Durden, that is WHAT Bush would have you believe, but it is not true.
Hans Blix and the UN Inspectors left Iraq less than a week before the beginning of the invasion.
Look it up – then apologize.
Totally wrong on both points, Tyler.
The UN inspectors were not “kicked out” in March of 2003. Saddam was complying fully with requests.
They were pulled out by the UN so they wouldn’t be under Bush’s falling bombs.
Congress voted to give the President power to go to war. That is a far different thing from green lighting the invasion.
Most Congress-people thought that this vote would bluff Saddam into believing an invasion was imminent so he would turn over WMD’s.
They never dreamed that Worst President Ever would be so bat-s*** crazy as to actually invade.
“FULLY BRIEFED and VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY for this war”
They were fully briefed with cherry picked data like Saddam sought yellow cake from Niger.
OOOH – I like how GS has suddenly jumped on blaming CLINTON for the IRAQ WAR!!!! Anyone else notice that??? HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! “we’re only there because Bush followed Clinton’s recommendations” Now, THAT is just freaking hilarious – WHY, GS, when Bush didn’t follow or even otherwise ACKNOWLEDGE ANY of Clinton’s recommendations that he made prior to leaving office, would Bush suddenly jump on Clinton’s recommendation to remove Saddam from power??? Wouldn’t be because that was the ONLY recommendation that he would profit from, would it???
“Bush wanted to use more troops in the beginning but was talked out of that.”
Close. It was Gen. Shinzeki who wanted to use three times the number of troops. He was quietly put out to pasture.
Bush and Rumsfilled always thought they could do this on the cheap.
BTW, Tyler Durden with your tough guy “fight club” e-mail address . . . why the hell aren’t you over there?
Chicken-hawk.
March 18, 2003….
(AP) U.N. weapons inspectors climbed aboard a plane and pulled out of Iraq on Tuesday after President Bush issued a final ultimatum for Saddam Hussein to step down or face war.
A plane carrying the inspectors took off from Saddam International Airport at 10:25 a.m. It landed an hour and a half later in Laranca, Cyprus where the inspectors have a base.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Monday ordered all U.N. inspectors and support staff, humanitarian workers and U.N. observers along the Iraq-Kuwait border to evacuate Iraq after U.S. threats to launch war.
U.N. spokesman Hiro Ueki said 56 inspectors as well as support staff were on board Tuesday. Reporters at the airport saw about 80 people boarding buses for the plane, and officials earlier estimated the total number of U.N. evacuees at about 150.
After failing to secure U.N. authorization to use force to disarm Iraq, President Bush gave Saddam 48 hours to step down or face war in a speech Monday night.
AFN
You must also remember that in bush’s absolute stampede to war, plans had to be changed at the last minute.
The ORIGINAL plan called for a force to attack Iraq in the north from Turkey. But the Turks would not ok it.
SO bush made the military change it’s plans at the last minute.
It’s great to see Tyler Durdan lie and then run away from his words. Classic Wingnut: assert something phony, pretend you never saw the refutation, and continue to lie.
I’m calling you a LIAR, Tyler Durdan, Mr. Would-Be-Fight-Club-Guy. Are you gonna let a wussy liberal like CF smack you down?
The Truth,
Apples and oranges, Social Security vs. the Iraq War cock-up. The former was based on actuarial projections in population growth and life expectancy that have borne out over the time. The latter was based on cooked intelligence in support of predetermined policy goals.
When Democrats run the government, government can deliver for the common good. When Repubicans run government, it can deliver only limited goods or none at all.
Where would you be, TT, or where would Wingnuts be in general, without false equivalences? You argue like a bunch of eight-year olds.
What I recall from various post war sources, and what is contained in the first link in the header, is that: 1) The idea of an Iraqi invasion was wargamed in 1999; it was determined that even if 400,000 troops were used, there was a distinct potential for being in a mess, similar to what we have today; 2) The Turks did indeed deny the use of its territory for the IVID, thereby reducing available ground troops during the invasion. Some folks believe this was the cause of the current security issues; I do not happen to agree here, as even with the IVID, the troop level was still well short of the 400,000 projected in the wargaming; 3) the good General, whose name I cannot recall, did say 3 times troops were needed, and all of a sudden, went into retirement.
There was, it seems to me, an unrealistic expectation that this whole thing could be done quickly and at a minimum of expense ($$ and lives).
VT,
It was General Eric Shinseki, Army Chief of Staff, who challenged Cheney’s delusions and therefore had to go.
Also, here’s a link to an account of some war games in 2002, the “Milennium Challenge 2002,” in which Rumsfeld’s model of the planned Iraq strategy (Blue Team/America) was beaten so badly by Lt. Gen. Paul Van Riper (leader of Red Team/Iraq) that the games were prematurely called off, rescripted, and restaged.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=147614
So anybody who tries to pretend the Iraq disaster was all an honest mistake, and that the debacle was unforeseen by those in the know, and that the Administration isn’t responsible, is, at this late date, lying.
Truth be told, I have no use for the Government save national security, paved roads and utilities, which are certainly creature comforts, but survival could be had without.The greater good I am concerned with resides under my own roof.Truth be told, if all subscribed to this theory, there would be no greater good to be concerned about. No? What say you WE bloggers?
CF- The computer simulation story you posted is yet another eye-opener in a ever growing list, unfortunately!
“BAGHDAD, Iraq – The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq was wounded and an aide was killed in a clash Thursday with Iraqi forces north of Baghdad, the Interior Ministry spokesman said.”
ws: “I hope this is not true”jr: “Yeah, me too”capn: “This doesn’t mean a thing”cosmos: “I hope this is not true”you people: Infinity
Story re: al Quaeda in Iraq leader wounded, aide killed not yet confirmed by U.S. military or other independent source; IP spokesperson would not say if leader in custody; hope it’s true.
Christ, let that crap that you pull out of your ass air out a bit before posting it here, Fleet. You’re stinking up the joint.
Jeez, even my cat knows to cover up a steaming pile of shit that he drops in the kitty box.
I say “The Truth” is a reincarnation of “…”.
Steven – remember the “Ministry of Truth” and “Ministry of Peace” in 1984?
If you ALL remember the UN passed the Resolutions to use force on IRAQ. The United Staes Congress VOTED for the War.
EVERYONE saw THE FAME F**KING INTELLIGENCE, and came to the same conclusion.
NOw it is alittle tough, and the surrender crats are running. They hate George Bush so much they would like to see us lose as a nation.
You assholes are the ones lying. The 17 UN Resloutions, the 3 VOTES in the COngress?? ANd you have the gall to lay this entirely at the feet of Pres. Bush? NO HELP form the UN. NO Help from the World BOdies, save a few countries.
You idiots are falling into the Anti Anerican trap the world is playing.
Truth, you have no idea of what it is.
Steven, I was going to post the same thing yesterday. ;)
I believe it was Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry thqat wanted to have limited troops. Then they wanted more troops when Kerry was running for President in 2004.
George Bush is the only one whom has been steady and consistent in this whole mess. IT is the Deomcrats that change their minds on the dime.
The only reason the Dems are doing this is for the 2008 election. I hope the troops come home and make a BIG noise. The Dems are finished.
As for those that askede if I served, you mad a very wrong assumption. And made an ass out of yourself.
“but Clinton DID figure prominently in the idea that we needed to remove Saddam from power.”
Did Clinton invade and occupy a sovereign nation to do that? Uh, no. There were others way, if Dubya was so gung ho about being the one to do it. But other ways aren’t the cowboy way.
“Congress voted to give the President power to go to war. That is a far different thing from green lighting the invasion.”
Congress voted to give the President the power to use force, AFTER certain conditions were met, one of them being backing by the UN. None of the conditions were met. Read the resolution again.
“NO HELP form the UN. NO Help from the World BOdies, save a few countries.”
That, alone, should tell you something. Then again, you have to open your eyes and take your fingers out of your ears.
Just how many UN resolutions has Israel ignored again? One hundred and how many? And doesn’t Israel have nuclear (pardon me, that’s NUCULAR for all you Bush-bots) capabilities? Yet I don’t see the U.S. invading Israel. I wonder why THAT is…
Tyler “Saddam kicked the inspectors out” Durden…. It was Rumsfeld that said we did not need anymore troops, not Kerry or Kennedy.
Neither Kerry or Kennedy could have influenced the number of troops that were back of the initial invasion.
And no, Bush and Cheney cherry picked the intel that Congress saw, just as Bush claimed that Saddam sought yellow cake from Niger after he KNEW that the info was FALSE.
By the way, Israel has ignored over FIFTY UN resolutions – do you advocate invading Jerusalem?
Ty?
You’re a kook.
The Dems are finished??
Hmmm they finished quite well the last election.
No Ty, it is you and yours who are finished.
“I believe it was Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry thqat wanted to have limited troops.”
Is that what Rush told you? That is one of the dumbest remarks I’ve read here.
“George Bush is the only one whom has been steady and consistent in this whole mess.”
Yeah, he is. Consistently stupid and heartless, among other things.
“The only reason the Dems are doing this is for the 2008 election. I hope the troops come home and make a BIG noise. The Dems are finished.”
Apparently you were ill on election day in 2006 and weren’t paying attention. Not only have the citizens and voters of this country spoken, they are still speaking. And the call to end this “war” becomes louder every day.
You’re coming into the game late, Tyler. Better study the play book and check with Rush and Hannity and all the rest. Plenty of people who (or whom, for those of you who don’t know the difference) were against the invasion of Iraq were speaking out, before our troops were sent over there. The media just didn’t and still isn’t covering it.
Bush fooled you, too. Aren’t you special?
Jeez, Tyler, I seem to remember a poll of our troops serving in Iraq and only about 38 percent of them still supported the “mission.”
When we get our troops home, finally, they will thank left wing bastards like me for helping to get them out of harm’s way.
I guess it is only leftwing Kool Aid Drinkers here.
NOt one person here stands up for the Country and for out Troops. NOT ONE!
Sorry, Durden, you are completely full of shit and you are totally fact challenged.
You tried to claim that Saddam kicked out the inspectors – I proved you wrong.
You tried to say it was Kerry and Kennedy that limited the number of troops – I proved you wrong.
Now you claim that you are the only one that stands up for the country and the troops.
I showed you where the troops no longer support the mission.
Now I am telling you that the war was lost day one – as many predicted – and now, for the sake of MY country, we should get the hell out before we lose any more of our young men and women.
So, who is drinking kool aid?
Bullshit Tyler. We DO stand for our troops and our country. That is why we oppose what Bush is doing to them.
Tyler I admire you for putting facts that are backed by history on here. It’s pretty easy to monday morning quarterback and that happens here alot. I can’t believe the people on this blog that daily run our prez and our military down on a regular basis.
WS quotes an non-existent poll because he heard it from Al Franken or somebody else as stupid. They are sheeple being led by Washington insiders and hollywood types that give marching orders and they move in lock step. There are more millionaires in the democrat party heads that in the republicans but they have convinced the sheep following them that they are for the ‘common’ man. As they sit tonight drinking their champagne and eating their fish eggs they will be laughing over this adoration.
As one poster stated on here a while back:
“Do You want the US to Win in Iraq?”
“Tyler I admire you for putting facts”
Were you referring to the “fact” that Saddam kicked out the UN Inspectors just prior to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq?
But in case you would like ACTUAL facts, Germie, here it is….
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/17/iraq/main544280.shtml
“Do You want the US to Win in Iraq?”
That is a Bill O’Hannity talking point – do you have anything original, Durden, or are you just full of shit like your Grandma Germie?
By the way, I am still waiting for your rebutal concerning the Inspectors in Iraq.
WS those inspectors were moved in and out so many time since 91 they had to have added pages to their passports.
Saddam would let them in and only let them go where he wanted them. Many places were off limits. As the following quotes bear out.
“The Iraq story boiled over last night when the chief U.N. weapons inspector, Richard Butler, said that Iraq had not fully cooperated with inspectors and–as they had promised to do. As a result, the U.N. ordered its inspectors to leave Iraq this morning”
–Katie Couric, NBC’s Today, 12/16/98
“As Washington debates when and how to attack Iraq, a surprise offer from Baghdad. It is ready to talk about re-admitting U.N. weapons inspectors after kicking them out four years ago.”
–Maurice DuBois, NBC’s Saturday Today, 8/3/02
Sometimes your sources get it wrong. You might try broadening your horizons. Notice this is from NBC not Fox news. They are one of yours.
It is unbelieveable Germie, that you are still buying into the “Saddam kicked out the Inspectors” bullshit line.
Amazing.
“–Maurice DuBois, NBC’s Saturday Today, 8/3/02″
We attacked Iraq in March of 2003!!!
The Inspectors had been in country and had determined that Saddam did not have a WMD program!!!
That wasn’t good enough for Bush – he WANTED 3,125 American young men and women to DIE!!!
Are you okay with that????
a true account…
Applying textbook methods of counterinsurgency to Anbar’s capital, MacFarland has reversed the trend. The new counterinsurgency manual instructs, “Identity-focused insurgencies can be defeated in some cases by co-opting the responsible traditional authority figure.” MacFarland has courted such figures relentlessly. When 1-1AD arrived in Ramadi last June, it was welcomed by six cooperative tribes and twelve hostile ones. Today, it boasts the support of 15 and the enmity of just three. Of the tribal leaders whose allegiance MacFarland has gained, Sattar wields by far the most power. The sheik heads up an alliance called the “Awakening,” a collection of Anbar tribes who have thrown their lot in with the Americans. Seated beneath the Awakening’s gilded flag, which he designed and which features a sword, scales of justice, and, less explicably, a coffee pot, he recounts his three arrests by the U.S. units that operated here at the beginning of the war. How, then, was he converted to the cause of his onetime jailers? Sattar credits Al Qaeda’s excesses in Ramadi—including the murder of two of his brothers—and the fact that “the old U.S. leadership here was a disaster, but now the Americans work with us.”
Another of Ramadi’s sheiks, Ahmed Bezia—who, unlike Sattar, favors Western attire and has built himself a full-scale replica of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, albeit painted salmon—explains that, in a gathering of Ramadi’s elders, the sheiks signed a document pledging, in Bezia’s words, “that any U.S. losses are tribal losses.” At his headquarters later, MacFarland shows me a map of Ramadi color-coded to reflect tribal boundaries. Pointing to the western outskirts of the city, he explains, “We were hit almost every day in these places before [the alliance], but we haven’t been hit there in months.” Pressed on the wisdom of handing Ramadi over to militias with no allegiance to the government in Baghdad, MacFarland says simply, “There’s no government here.” In fact, not even the capital’s death spiral seems to register in Ramadi, where “most people have probably never even met a Shiite,” according to MacFarland. “It’s not about a civil war here. It’s about Al Qaeda.”
WS you might think that when you dismiss 90% of the argument you win – but independent thinkers know better. I said Saddam had them comming and going. If he felt threatened he let them in or a limited basis. When the pressure was off he kicked them back out.
The economic sanctions that were supposed to be making them comply with the UN resolutions were being sabatoged by the very people in charge of inforcing them. Look up the milk for oil scandle and see how high up it went in the UN.
“That wasn’t good enough for Bush – he WANTED 3,125 American young men and women to DIE!!!”
Yes, Mr. Clark, President Bush wanted to Kill 3,125 American Servicemen! (eyes rolling) If you believe that you are an idiot, and should not be commenting on anythying.
After a stupid statement like that I am supposed to give your comments ANY creedance?
That is Bullshit.
I am forwarding this lovely little diatribe to our brothers and sisters in harm’s way. To let them know that the town of WICHITA, KANSAS is a bunch of Anti Americans, and to not come to this town at any cost. AND to avoid it. They should not be dishonered with the presence in your City. Your crappy little Anti American City.
Gee guys… You have left me nothing to say!
Where are the WMD that 3,125 American died for, Germie?
Answer that – without BS’ing around with your FACTS.
Why have 3,125 American died?
THANK YOU Cap’n. Poindexter> Good moniker too!
Durden, when are you going to address the issue of Saddam kicking out the UN Inspectors?
we need to finish this job, like it or not.
and stop acting like you care about soldiers’ lives.
I will not respond to any idiot that posts something like this Mr. Clark:
“That wasn’t good enough for Bush – he WANTED 3,125 American young men and women to DIE!!!”
Truth be told, Ramadi is the exception in Iraq, not the rule. Truth be told, the most anti-American person here is Tyler. Truth be told, people like Tyler want America to say on a failed course. Otherwise they would have to admit they have been wrong all along.
Again the simple question:
DO YOU WANT THE US TO WIN IN IRAQ????
WSClark,
Like I said: he won’t. Tyler Durden lies and runs away.
What a putz you are, Tyler Durden, sitting in your parents’ basement, eating Cheetos, whacking off to war porn, and acting as if you’re actually doing something.
Like war? Go fight it. Until then, you’re just another cowardly Wingnut who talks big and who gives the otherwise glorious word ‘pussy’ a bad name.
I’ve never heard Ben Huie use profanity on this blog–ever. For him to use it in reference to an unthinking Dittohead such as yourself reflects warranted annoyance on his part.
And if one is known by the company one keeps, faint surprise that the bottom-feeder ksgrm has waddled over to your assistance.
Truth be told, YES. That is why it is imperative that we find a new course. Truth be told, the current failed course will lead to failure. Therefore, truth be told, anyone who wants to stay the failed course wants America to lose.
“Again the simple question:”
And when did Saddam kick the UN Inspectors out of Iraq?
Liar.
F*ckin’ liar.
God d@mn f*ckin’ liar.
war is an unfortunate and sometimes necessary evil.
it has always been that way.
nobody can ever change it
is inserting more troops staying the course?
if not, then what would be a change of course?
what would you suggest is the military answer to the problems in Iraq?
Truth be told, DO you know what the “surge” is?
The SURGE is a 20,000 member seek and destroy group with an additional compliment of 25,000 Iraq Army members as well. That is right a 45,000 member team sweeping cities. The gloves are now off. No embeds, no courts, bad guys are cornered and surrender or are shot.
This is about killing bad guys now. THAT is why Al SAadar left. He is enemy number 1.
THis surge is to win, and the gloves are off. Al Sadar knows it, but Anti American Democrats and surrendercrats do not know this, and cannot read the writing on the wall.
“As Washington debates when and how to attack Iraq, a surprise offer from Baghdad. It is ready to talk about re-admitting U.N. weapons inspectors after kicking them out four years ago.”
–Maurice DuBois, NBC’s Saturday Today, 8/3/02
WS I posted this one twice Just for you. Saddam kicked them out in ‘98 and let them back in May 02 when the pressure was applied.
Durden, can I get a toke of what you are smoking?
The SURGE has been ongoing for a week or two now – what results do you see?
So you are saying that in a few months we are suddenly going to be winning in Iraq?
If that is true, why didn’t Bush do this, say, three years ago?
Instead of BS’ing around, Durden, why not answer a question or two?
And Germie, we knew in March of 2003 that Saddam DID NOT have WMD – so why did we attack?
A 45,000 member seek and destroy team looking for the insurgents.
Of Course our boys and girls and the Sons and Daughters of Iraq will win.
It would be a good thing.
Tyler you are a moron.
The gloves are off?
Really? Just now?
We have killed 600,000 Iraqis already!
The blood of every lost soldier is on the hands of jingoistic simpletons like you.
how long are we going to debate the reasons why we went to war?
isn’t it a pointless argument right now?
there were no wmdsthe administration wanted hussein gonethe administration needed to make an example out of a state sponsor of terrorism – Iraq was the easiest target
so, we can debate the reasons all we want and waste pointless hours for another day
or we can discuss how we win and get our boys home. pure and simple
btw – al queda have been killing civilians on purpose.
americans unfortunately kill some civilians – but on accident.
lets make sure we have the right enemy here folks.
the problem is bush’s definition of “victory”.
” A free and stable Iraq that can defend itself and be an ally in the war on terror.”
NOT POSSIBLE!
It is you wingnuts who diminish the troops. They already WON the war.
“We have killed 600,000 Iraqis already!”
That little “Study” has been debunked. BTW, IN that study in the Lancet stated that the majority of the deaths in their projected 600,000 was males 21-32. The number of Children and women was way way low.
The UN estimates that 126,000 have been killed. ANd the Iraq ministry of Interior states that less that 152,000 including insurgents and Iraq Army casualties. Additionally the greatest number of deaths in Iraq are from IED’s and that is the insurgents ans terrorists that are doing the killing, … NOT AMERICAN’S!!!
So Mr. Clark, you are clearly an anti American.
Cap you are right. Getting our military home is top of the list and should happen quickly.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again.The Libs got nothin’, but what follows. Maybe if you people yell loud enough or insult hard enough, it’s all true.
BTW, Tyler Durden with your tough guy “fight club” e-mail address . . . why the hell aren’t you over there?
It’s great to see Tyler Durdan lie and then run away from his words.
Chicken-hawk.
I’m calling you a LIAR, Tyler Durdan, Mr. Would-Be-Fight-Club-Guy.
You argue like a bunch of eight-year olds.
that the Administration isn’t responsible, is, at this late date, lying.
check with Rush and Hannity and all the rest
Is that what Rush told you?
Sorry, Durden, you are completely full of shit
we should get the hell out
That is a Bill O’Hannity talking point
are you just full of shit like your Grandma Germie?
That wasn’t good enough for Bush – he WANTED 3,125 American young men and women to DIE!!!
Truth be told, the most anti-American person here is Tyler.
What a putz you are, Tyler Durden, sitting in your parents’ basement, eating Cheetos, whacking off to war porn, and acting as if you’re actually doing something.
unthinking Dittohead
Like war? Go fight it.
you’re just another cowardly Wingnut
the bottom-feeder ksgrm
Liar.
F*ckin’ liar.
God d@mn f*ckin’ liar.
Oops! I can’t seem to keep up.
Durden, can I get a toke of what you are smoking?
Tyler you are a moron
The blood of every lost soldier is on the hands of jingoistic simpletons like you.
” A free and stable Iraq that can defend itself and be an ally in the war on terror.”
NOT POSSIBLE!
It is you wingnuts who diminish the troops. They already WON the war.
“So Mr. Clark, you are clearly an anti American.”
Hey ws!
Looks like we are building agreements on this blog. Everybody knows just where you stand.
BDP fleetie?
Are you arguing that our troops LOST the war?
Thank you fleet and with that I am going to call it a night.
Nice try….. BDP.
For both you and Durden – show me where I am wrong.
Factually.
If it’s all you got, it’s all you got.
BDP fleetie?
Nice try….. BDP.
Whoa we got us some GREAT Americans here this evening!
ksgrm. pointy, fleetie, and tyler!
I’d like to ask you a question.
How long is enough in Iraq?
How much money is enough?
How many military and civilian deaths is enough?
See? I wanna know the bottom floor for what you call patriotism.
Help me out here huh?
“For both you and Durden – show me where I am wrong.”
Like I used to say back in the day, put up or shut up.
And I am talking to you, Fleet.
as long as it takesas much as it takeshowever many al queda it takesif you ask a soldier – however many of their lives it takes
and I don’t measure patriotism like you do.
I don’t measure bottom floors for defeat like you.
I look at ways I can improve my city, my state and my country – not look for ways to criticize and destroy it
“however many al queda it takes”
The US military estimate that only five percent of the ingurgency in Iraq is al Qaeda – the balance is Sunni v. Shia civil war.
So, tell me again why we are in Iraq?
because if we leave it will become a hell-hole of terrorists and will be sucked up by Iran and Syria.
that’s why.
why do we keep debating why we are there?
we are there – we need to find ways to win and get home.
So, it doesn’t matter how we got there, Pointer?
It doesn’t matter that it is NOT al Qaeda that is killing American soldiers?
So, Pointer, how do you expect to win?
How do you define victory?
How long will it take? How many Americans will die? How much money will we have to borrow from the Chinese?
Truth be told, we should remain in Iraq with a military presence (bases) until the United States no longer exist.Similar to Germany and Korea.Truth be told, what is different from these other conflicts and the US remaining presence? Because the enemy doesn’t fight the same way, truth be told, the conflict is different? An enemy that lets the enemy (US) conquer, over throw the Government and then begin fighting?If you can not draw similarities between these conficts you are blinded by your politcal beliefs. Truth be told, I will give you some help:
-Hitler/Saddam Hussein. Hostile takeover of neighboring nations (France-Poland, etc./Kuwait). Genocide of his own people. (German Jews/Iraqi Kurds). It is irrelevant, truth be told, that the US put him in power in the 1970’s.
-Korea. We were with war with an ideal that was communism/socialism. We are now at war with militant Islam.
Truth be told, you will now make some form of cockamamie excuse that Iraqis or Muslisms somehow desire the oppression that comes with the hardliners of their religion.
Why do you call yourself the TRUTH when all you have are lies?
WSClark -
why are you always so angry on these blogs?
You are the one here Mr. Clark that gets his information from the left winger blogs and BUsh haters.
Your facts aren’t. You come here to a “friendly room” and spout your BS, and nobody challanges you.
The reason I am not answering your questions is simple, no matter how much information and fact I put up, you will simply ignore it, because it offends your political position and agenda.
You are a political wonk, and dealing in half truths at that.
You are an Anti American. Those that agree with you and support you are also anti American.
Very simple question:
DO YOU WANT THE US TO WIN IN IRAQ???
You guys cannot answer a simple strainght question without giving a bunch of BS reasons.
It is a simple Yes of NO question. IT is your political agenda that makes it difficult, and that agenda is Anti American.
At least be honest you hate America and do not support the troops. If you did support the troops you would support the mission. You idiots think this is like th Viet Nam war. Well, it is not, and you MUST support the mission, or you are NOT SUPPORTING the troops.
You are just wasting their time and minimizing their sacrafice they made on your part. You disgust me.
“Hitler/Saddam Hussein”
NO ONE in their right mind can even begin to compare Hitler with Saddam Hussein. There is no comparison.
Hussein tried to invade Iran. They fought to a stalemate for ten years, even though Saddam had American backing.
Hussein invaded Kuwait – a country with NO armed forces. He was kicked out of Kuwait with a 100 HOUR ground war.
Saddam killed some of his Shia citizens for rising up against him. He killed some of his Kurdish citizens for siding with Iran.
His death toll MAY have risen to 300,000.
Hitler invaded Austria, Poland, Norway, France, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Denmark and northern Africa.
He OCCUPIED all of those countries. Saddam occupied Kuwait for six months.
Saddam killed 300,000.
Hitler killed THIRTEEN MILLION in the concentration camps alone.
If Hitler was an evil killer, Saddam was a bad six year old in grade school.
I figured with the present crowd I’d get the answers I was looking for.
As long, as much, and as many….
Permanent bases….
Essentially? You are correct.
Did your president lay out that this would be an open ended mission? Is he doing so now?
You are aware of course that it was the US presence in Saudi Arabia that motivated Osama bin Laden.
What do you think a perpetual US presence in Iraq is going to do?
SO since your president is not being honest? Let’s see if we can get some of his remaining suporters to be.
Is the United States to commit to a permanent presence in Iraq? And are you prepared to ask the American people to pay the cost in blood and treasure that that entails?
You don’t answer the questions, Durden, because you CANNOT answer the questions.
When you can answer reasonable questions, Durden, then we can discuss the issue.
Until then, STFU.
I don’t hate America Tyler.
I do hate mindless zealots. They tend to get people killed un neccessarily and cause other problems.
My son is 12 Mr. Durden.
If we pursue YOUR course? There will be a global war.
This is not the future I wish for my son.
Why do you wish it for him?
Truth be told, I believe the United States must continue to encourage the spread of Democracy throughout the planet. The Middle East is the last region on earth (North America, South America, Europe, Asia, South Pacific, Africa) without a presence of Democracy. It is not a coincidence that these remain the most barbaric and oppressive cultures on earth, truth be told. The cause of Democracy does not come without the bloodshed of American Patriots and never has.Truth be told, before you start with your they don’t want Democracy crap, perhaps you should consider the minority and oppressed among them.
“Hitler killed THIRTEEN MILLION in the concentration camps alone.”
So you disagree with the crazy man from Iran? Do you think we need to let that man, whom thinks that the holocaust did not happen, acquire nukes?
” Until then, STFU.”
OH good comeback there Mr. Clark! Why do you have to be so repugnant in your responses. I have never come across a person on the blogs that is so vitriloic and abrasive, AND on the wrong side of the argument and often wrong.
No wonder you are so pissed and abrasive. If I was wrong on that much in life I would be misreable too and try to take it out on strangers as you do.
I however am not that mantally screwed up as you appear to be.
if a global war is what it takes, I’m in.
my son is 14months. if he has to fight in a global war that is unfortunate.
but some things are worth dying for.
I think this country is worth dying for – and I have served it as well as I could.
I will die for this country – and each and every soldier who signed up are willing to die for this country.
so it goes.
Debatable, evidently.
“why are you always so angry on these blogs?”
Well, Pointy, wouldn’t you be angry if someone called you a traitor?
Wouldn’t you be angry if some said that you were anti-American?
Wouldn’t you be pissed off if someone accused you of not supporting our men and women in the armed forces?
There have been posters on this blog that have stated that I (by name)should be hung for treason.
So, why shouldn’t I be angry?
Are you COMPLETELY incapable of answering a question Druden?
because its a stupid blog posted by people anonymously.
it just doesn’t make much sense to me to get all fired up over that.
if you said you were pissed because of the direction this country is going and you disagree with it – then I would understand.
but you say you are angry b/c people are calling you nasty names – even though you are calling people nasty names?
doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
chill – respectfully.
Well zealots
You cannot have me or my son for your crusade.
And I think you will find that the American people also do not have the appetite for empire that you seem to have.
What IS reassuring is that the loose cannons posting here tonight are in a small and shrinking minority.
if a global war is what it takes, I’m in.
my son is 14months. if he has to fight in a global war that is unfortunate.
but some things are worth dying for.
I think this country is worth dying for – and I have served it as well as I could.
I will die for this country – and each and every soldier who signed up are willing to die for this country.
so it goes.
“my son is 14 months>’
THIS means that you are most likely under the maximum age for enlistment which was recently raised to 42.
You are free to exercise your convicition so articulated here. To not do so is hypoicrisy.
we don’t need nor do we want you or your son.
that is your choice – america is great, isn’t it?
you can do something – or nothing. in the u.s. – you can do whatever you want.
no worries. just don’t piss on those of us who want to…
“chill – respectfully.”
… and when someone suggests that I should be hung for treason, I should just laugh that off as a joke?
The individual that posted the comment (repeatedly) is not anonymous – nor are the others that accused me of being anti-American.
… and by the way, my e-mail address is not a dummy, but it is not totally direct. You have to be a friend to get my direct e-mail addy.
… my name however is real.
Truth be told we are also the one’s with all the guns. So when the next American Civil War comes along which, truth be told, you and your kind seem to have a wet dream for, I’m confident in the result.
Truthiness – you are a human pile of shit on a shingle.
I love it when I beat them to their own post…. ENLIST captain. Go fight for george bush. Go die for him if it makes your spine tingle.
hey JR – I know you’re a good guy – but you have no idea what I have done and what I have not done.
so with all due respect – butt out.
I have served this country – but me serving does not grant my opinion or ability to express my opinion any more validity.
I said I will die for this country – I think dying for something you believe in is a noble cause – and I will teach my son the same because my father taught me that as well.
If you don’t want to teach that, so it goes…but I do.
JR, take a moment to calm down and just understand that I have a different opinion from yours and that I am raising my son to believe in his country a little differnt than you.
I don’t question you teaching your son about your vision and opinion about america – so why would you do it with me or anyone else?
JR – I don’t and haven’t fought for GWB.
I fight for people like you.
JR – I don’t and haven’t fought for GWB.
I fight for people like you.
“just don’t piss on those of us who want to…” Want to …..what? Do you even know? Or are you just mindlessly flailing?
sorry someone said that WSClark.
last time I checked, I don’t think you’re eligible for treason hanging. :-)
calm down.
want to do something…
chill.
Calm down?
I am calm.
It’s folks like you that worry me.
“want to do something…”
I ask again.
Do what?
Graveyards are full of eager and well intentioned folks who died for their country.
And I’m sorry, But those who die in Iraq are NOT dieing for their country.
They are dieing for their countries leaders policy.
I say that policy is flawed.
Last I checked it was better to live for your country.
Truth be told, how about we turn the tables on some of the questions tonite;
-What exactly do you believe (if anything) is worth fighting for?
The Truth that is absolute: If you do not stand for something you shall fall for anything.
What is worth fighting for?
YOU’RE the expert on that sort of thing.
How about this.
I’ll tell you what is worth fighting for.
You tell me what is worth dieing for in Iraq.
dying for your right to post on blogs and teach your son what you want to teach him.
that’s why I said I don’t fight for GWB – I fight for you.
that is what I do and that is what I want to do.
and YOU can’t tell ME what’s worth MY life – only I can.
If you don’t want to – that’s cool. I don’t plan on dying, but if that is what happens…so it goes.
why can’t you understand that I fell differently than you do? why is that so wrong?
Such as I figured, truth be told.Nothing.Truth be told, I shall refer you to my post of 9:36pm. However that was an entire 30 minutes ago. No one can expect you to remember that far back, truth be told. Public opinion polls have certainly changed since then.
JR – do you care for anything so much that you would die for it?
56 mintes ago “Truth” But I’ll let that slide.
Well “Truth”?
IF this mission had been sold as bringing sweetness and light to the people of Iraq you might have a point.
It wasn’t so you don’t
I point YOU to Tibet, Darfur, Chechnya, and a host of others.
And I ask you to remember that US interventionalism MADE Saddam, and the SHah, and Osama and a host of others.
I ask you to remember that the atrocities of Saddam on the Kurdish people were ALLOWED by George Bush senior.
That’s just for starters.
Do I care for anything so much that I would die for it?
You don’t accomplish much by dying for anything. That is unless you manage to become a martyr.
I ask again.
What in Iraq is worth dying for?
Captain “dying for your right to post on blogs and teach your son what you want to teach him.that’s why I said I don’t fight for GWB – I fight for you.that is what I do and that is what I want to do.and YOU can’t tell ME what’s worth MY life – only I can.If you don’t want to – that’s cool. I don’t plan on dying, but if that is what happens…so it goes.why can’t you understand that I fell differently than you do? why is that so wrong?” It isn’t. A soldiers portion is duty. His (your) sacrifice is noble. Your leaders owe you the best judgement of its citizenry in placing you in harms way. That is my portion.
“… It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same inevery country.”~ The testimony of Hermann Goering (Adolf Hitler’s vice-fuhrer) at theNuremberg trials
Great post, RD. Hope to meet you at the next gathering.
Tyler:
“That little “Study” has been debunked. BTW, IN that study in the Lancet stated that the majority of the deaths in their projected 600,000 was males 21-32.”
Tyler,Please support your statement that this little study has been debunked.
Read it and and make that statement. Of course, you can’t – which suggests what a mindless hack you.
http://web.mit.edu/CIS/lancet-study-101106.pdf
You guys need to go to school before posting such crap, okay?
Tyler believes this rinky-dink raggedy Al Qaeda is as much of a threat as Hitler marching across Europe, as much as International Communism, as the Japanese Empire.
He’s ready to do ANYTHING–ANYTHING I tell you–to stop the threat of terrorism.
Well . . . anything so long as it doesn’t involve him having to go and fight or pay higher taxes that is.
“Fight Club,” my a**. Looks like it’s the FRIGHT Club. “I’m so scared of the terrorists . . . wah wah . . . please Daddy Bush, look under the bed and make sure Bin Laden’s not there.”
Pathetic wuss.
Truth be told . . . you are so full of s*** . . . where do you get this crap, “American History” according to the John Birch society?
“The Middle East is the last region on earth (North America, South America, Europe, Asia, South Pacific, Africa) without a presence of Democracy.”
Wrong. Iran is actually a pretty good representation of democracy. They have elections. Look it up on wikipedia. Turkey, last time I checked, is also in the middle east and they are a democracy.
Lebanon would like to be a democracy. Which brings me to the next really asinine thing you said : “I believe the United States must continue to encourage the spread of Democracy throughout the planet.”
Uh, gee, what did we do to Lebanon’s election in 1957? Ram through a Christian even though a Muslim won?
Yes.
And did that kick off thirty years of bloody civil war in which a barracks full of Marines died in truck bomb attack under Reagan?
Yes.
Or how about Operation Ajax in Iran? In which the Brits and American secret service just knocked off the duly elected prime minister Mossagedeh and re-instituted a feudal monarchy?
Did that lead to the bloody backlash when the Ayatollah overthrew the Shah and took a bunch of American hostages leading to the weird theocratic democratic hybrid in Iran we see today?
Why, yes it did.
Probably no superpower on Earth has been more OPPOSED to true democracy (at least since the USSR imploded) than the United States.
If you don’t believe it, look at the assassination attempt against Hugo Chavez who just got re-elected for a THIRD term in a landslide.
And why shouldn’t Bush Co be against democracy worldwide?
They were opposed to it in the 2000 election.
They were willing to accept the will of the majority as long as they won. If they didn’t win, democracy be damned . . .
Thanks, Steven. :) Copy and paste says it so well. As long as they don’t have the next meet-up at the Eagle, I’ll be there. But the Eagle meet-ups have me jinxed. :(
Here’s one more to think on:
“Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.
And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.
How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.” – Julius Caesar
As long as we are in US vs democracy, don’t forget that one of the main reason for staying in Viet-Nam has been to stop Indonesia from turning Communist, noting that in the mid-60s it had the largest Party outside USSR and China. Not until 1971 when Suharto was firmly in power did CIA felt secure enough. And that was after one of the worst anti Communist massacre in the world. And how about “Operation Djakarta” meant to topple democratically elected Allende, murdered on September 11, 1973?
Mr. Davis,
“Tyler,Please support your statement that this little study has been debunked.
Read it and and make that statement. Of course, you can’t – which suggests what a mindless hack you.”
I suggest that you read page 3 and 4 of that link you posted. It states EXACTLY what I said. I suggest that YOU read things first. That is where I got the information.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Capn. America:
“Wrong. Iran is actually a pretty good representation of democracy. They have elections.”
That is a hoot! They vote for whom they are told to vote for, just like in the SOviet Union. You are clueless and dumb.
You revisionist PUKES make me sick. Rewriting and reinterperting history, and it is NOT EVEN CLOSE!!! All due to your hatred of George Bush. The Republicans may have fallen off the Conservative wagon, but the party is NOT guided by Clinton Hatred. There is at least some level of respect for Clintons in the GOP. However there is not respect for anything in the Donkey party.
Remember this is about a surge. A force of 45,000 (US and Iraqi Soldiers) sweeping the countries wort parts, with Baghdad first.
This is going to work, and we will now win, now that the gloves are off.
Al Sadar saw it, and left the country.
“They vote for whom they are told to vote for, just like in the SOviet Union.”
You mean like they do in the last few elections right here in KS, since not voting Republicans means the terrorists have won?
Djakarta is coming!
heheheh Roo! Good to see you again!
Tyler,
You need to pull your head out. Republicans have respect for Clinton? That is laughable. You are beating a dead horse…
The truth of the matter is, this war is a mistake. We should have NEVER gone to war with Iraq. And Bush knows it. But he was too busy trying to fight daddy’s war and pad his pocketbook a little bit. Bush KNEW he was taking us into war under false pretenses before he EVER declared war on Iraq.
And by the way, techinically we are not “at war” with Iraq anymore – I believe Bush declared victory and that the war was over back in MAY of 2003… I could have the date slightly wrong, but I do know that Bush declared victory nearly four years ago. So why are we still there if we won? Because we made a MESS out of that country and now we have to clean it up. And we got NO SUPPORT from the UN or other nations because they knew we were WRONG and they knew that there was going to be a huge mess left to clean up.
And how dare you imply that I am anti-american because I disagree with this administration and this war? Didn’t you know that is the beauty of this country, that we all get to have our own opinions and our own beliefs? How the f*** does that make me anti-american?
Here is what I do believe. The military is an honorable profession, and if my son, who is 2, ever chooses to go into the military I would support his decision whole-heartedly. Note I said CHOOSES. If my son is drafted into some god-forsaken war that is the result of the close mindedness that got us into this mess in the first place, no I do not support that.
I support our military in as much as I realize that they have a job to do. A difficult, demanding and sometimes degrading job to do. I do not hold our military responsible for what is going on in Iraq because I realize that they are doing there job. I am honored that there are men and women out there who see fit to give their lives so that we can live ours in relative comfort and safety. That said, I do not support this war. I think that Bush lied to us, got us into this mess for his own personal reasons and for NOTHING political or right. You want to fight a war on terror and stop attacks on American soil? Then go after the guy who did it, not someone that you are just itching to get at to vindicate your daddy!!! Bin Laden was and is the real threat here. And, to paraphrase Bush (because I am not going to search the damn internet for the exact quote) “I don’t even think about him anymore” OH MY GOD!!!! And you wonder why we don’t support this man? Get Real!
The beauty of being against the war is that you can have it both ways. If the war goes well, you are forgotten. If the war goes poorly, you think you are the cat’s pajamas. It’s a no-lose place to be. Unless you are a troop who has to listen to people over here running them down, committing sedition.
Wendy you are dumber than a bag of hammers.
“I think that Bush lied to us, got us into this mess for his own personal reasons and for NOTHING political or right.”
Pretty serious charge. When do you people back it up with impeachment proccedings?
Gee, Thanks Tyler – I’ll consider that a compliment coming from you seeing as how you have the mentality of a rock!
What’s the matter, someone doesn’t agree with your opinion, so you have to resort to name-calling? Just how old are you anyways? Because I’m pretty sure my TWO YEAR OLD is more mature than that!
And fleetie – If you will notice, my statement says “I think” meaning it’s my personal opinion. I don’t HAVE To back it up with impeachment proceedings… Thanks for playing though…
Wendy – as they watch their hero’s plans fail again and again the BushBots become more and more shrill.
No, ben, this is shrill-
seeing as how you have the mentality of a rock!
or
Just how old are you anyways?
or
I’m pretty sure my TWO YEAR OLD is more mature than that!
;^)
Gee, funny how ME RESPONDING TO A DERAGATORY COMMENT is shrill, but Tyler calling me “dumber than a bag of hammers” isn’t. Sorry, fleet, can’t have it both ways…
Tyler Durden is one funny SOB.
Anybody who isn’t PANICKED! about the threat of a couple of hundred out of work Arabs who hate America is “stupid” “ignorate” or “a terrorist sympathizer.”
Tyler, did it ever dawn on you that the government needs and uses these big scary NATIONAL THREATS! to whip up public sentiment for what it wants to do?
Like funnel massive amounts of taxpayer money to military contractors that support politicians?
Or use our military might to make the world safe for big multinational corporations to make obscene profits (hegemony)?
Just look at all the big scary enemies that the poor, little America with nothing but truth and justice on her side has had to “protect” herself against–
the Soviet Union, which couldn’t subdue the Afghans or the Chechyns, Cuba’s Castro, the Ayatollah Khomeni (Iran), Libya’s Moamar Qadafi, Romanian Ceaucesque, the Nicaraguan Sandinistas, Panama’s Manuel Noriega, Iraq’s Saddam Hussein (1991), Slobedon Milsovec, Osama bin Laden, Hugo Chavez, Saddam Hussein again (2002).
The list never stops, does it.
Because the funding for hegemony and global domination must NEVER STOP.
“Because the funding for hegemony and global domination must NEVER STOP.”
The last argument for the uninformed parinoids.
It’s “paranoids”, Tyler. And, yes, you are.
hee hee hee RD.
And he’s calling YOU paranoid?
hehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheeh
Isn’t “parinoids” what Preparation H heals?
Wrong “oid”?
…and we havent even TALKED about schizoid
Oh, let him have his delusions at least…
the fact still remains, Tyler, that this is a free country. And that means that we are free to disagree with this war. And if you don’t like that, well, you don’t have to read this blog. You are FREE to leave!!!
(Oh I just love it when everything makes sense so easily!)
Paranoid is when you believe Bush lied, went to war for oil, went to war to make some people rich etc, etc. Stupid is when you believe all that, but refuse to make your representives do something about it. Ignorant is when you think we are not targets of the “Religion of Peace”, prefering to hide the proverbial head in the sand. That is why the democrat party will not get into the White House.Tyler- when all they got is spelling errors, you know you are on the right trak.
Paranoid is when you believe that Bush lied, paranoid is when you believe that Bush went to war for oil or to make some people rich. Stupid is when you believe that and won’t make your representives do something about what you must believe to be impeachable offenses.Ignorant is when you refuse to believe that the “Religion of Peace” want to kill us all. Being ignorant is why the democrat party will not be in the White House.
Tyler- When all they got is a spelling error, you are on the right trak.
wendy- No, shrill is when you go on and on. And, no one has said you can’t disagree. I didn’t see anybody say that. Do you think somebody said that? Are you parinoid?
Another award winner DPB, ‘ya still got the touch!
You’re ready for the Nationals!
The server thought that made so much sense, it posted twice.
I see fleetie wants the dems to do the same things the repukes did in 1995.
Sorry fleetie, the majority of voters sent a majority of democrats to congress in the last election. You are usually a free market advocate. Looks like the free market of votes worked against you this time.
Damn, I know you hate the sound of chickens coming home to roost now that the repukes are in the minority.
A little link as to why it is so comfortable for republicans to cut of funding to support the troops once they are in harms way.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×225915
OKAY, THE SERVER IS REALLY STARTING TO GET ANNOYING>>> THIRD TRY
You know, fleetie, I don’t think I would go around throwing “spelling errors” out as insults, seeing as how you are just as bad as the rest of us.
And, if you read earlier posts, Tyler said that we were anti-american for not supporting the war. The way I read it (and I am pretty sure the way many others read it as well) that is telling me that I can’t be against the war and be american, which I am pretty sure means, according to Tyler, that I am not free to disagree….
By the way, I still don’t see how what I said was shrill – I made ONE response to something that was said directly to me… But sure if that works in your head I guess… tell me how I went on and on and maybe then I will believe you…
It’s “paranoids”, Tyler. And, yes, you are.
Posted by: RD | February 16, 2007 at 12:48 PM
You free to disagree AND be unAmerican. It’s up to you.
Gee, Fleetie, and I thought the right to freedom of speech was one of the things that MADE me american…
The right to free speech is granted to Americans. It doesn’t make you a good American.
Truth be told, the only UNAmericans here are those who call for us to stay on the same failed course. Truth be told, Bush and his cronies are traitors. Truth be told, they are causing immeasurable harm to our country.
We are now off the failed course. We are now on the way to winning via the surge in troop levels. I know you people do not want Bush to win, but it will happen.
Truth be told, we did a surge last summer. Truth be told, it failed.
Yes, it was me whom posted the ’spelling insult.’
;)
Quitters.
Truth be told, one definition of insanity is doing the same stupid thing over and over again hoping next time the result will be different. Truth be told, fleettwood is insane.
Um, Fleet – it isn’t that we WANT Bush to fail – it’s that we realize he ALREADY HAS!!! How can he declare “victory” in a war that we are still fighting? (Which is what he did FOUR YEARS AGO)
OH YEAH! It is working, with a little help from our friends (not democrats).
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070217/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_explosion
Seems like now the Sunni in Iran are tired of the Shia in Iran Killing Sunni Iraqi’s.
Seems as if the worm has turned. Maybe they will kill Al Sadar while he is in Iran.
Maybe it will rain sugarplaums.
But I doubt it.
The non binding resolution has passed the House.
bush has been sent the message.
The war is over. America is tired of bush’s misadventure.
Do tell. That would be a disaster for some people who shall be named You People.Libs = Hating Bush, No Matter What The Cost, Any Cost.
BushBot = Ignore reality, support failed policies, No matter what the cost, any cost
Teetwood and Tyler are willing to do ANYTHING to win . . . uh . . . anything short of raising taxes to pay for it of course.
Or reinstituting the draft, let’s say.
Or going over to fight themselves.
But, by golly! they’ve got magnets on their cars, so don’t say they don’t support our troops.
“The non binding resolution has passed the House.”
And the word from Iraq is that the troops are pissed at the dems. I have seen 3 different Sargents of 3 different news shows, one on Fox, one on CNN and one on ABC, that were not happy with the Dems and let the interviewer know their displeasure at the resolution.
Surrendercrat = ignoring reality, poor risk assessment, Anti American, Anti Troops.
Yes this is being read in Iraq, and the direct feedback I get is not looking good for the Dems in ‘08. Can you say military Backlash?
Well put blogger:
http://skymusings.blogspot.com/