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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Feb. 5, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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80 Comments
Although some of the Newswires edited out Tony’s comment after the Super Bowl, he did say it.. I heard it!! What a guy.. I always thought coaches screaming and yelling at their players was uncalled for and rude. Tony and Lovie proved it’s not necessary!——————————–Jim Nantz of CBS Sports: This is one of those moments, Tony, where there is also social significance in this victory, and to have your hands on the Vince Lombardi Trophy. Tell me what this means to you right now.
Tony Dungy: I’ll tell you what. I’m proud to be representing African-American coaches, to be the first African-American to win this. It means an awful lot to our country. But again, more than anything, I’ve said it before, Lovie Smith and I, not only the first two African-Americans, but Christian coaches showing that you can win doing it the Lord’s way. And we’re more proud of that.
Oh Nooooooo. Not CHRISTIAN coaches. No No NO!
The libs have to HATE this. =)
There was an interesting discussion last night on Ch 12 sports about the fact that both of these coaches were “players’ coaches” – decent men rather than in-your-face tyrants. Good men both – I just wish the other one had won.
“It’s amazing what competition does for consumers. The power to say no to one business and yes to another is awesome. Too bad we don’t apply that idea to schools themselves. Education bureaucrats and teachers unions are against it. They insist they must dictate where kids go to school, what they study, and when. …Every economics textbook says monopolies are bad because they charge high prices for shoddy goods. But it’s government that gives us monopolies. So why do we entrust something as important as our children’s education to a government monopoly? The monopoly fails so many kids that more than a million parents now make big sacrifices to homeschool their kids. Two percent of school-aged kids are homeschooled now. If parents weren’t taxed to pay for lousy government schools, more might teach their kids at home.”
God doesn’t care whose team wins!
Rolls eyes.
You have a sport that promotes binge drinking, money gluttony, violence, and has killed or injured people severely…while kids are starving and dying of treatable illnesses.
See the big picture please. I’m sure God is not impressed.
Anon, I’m not willing to take money away from the public schools so you can send your kid to a private school. If you want to homeschool, nothing is stopping you.
Of all the kids I’ve known that were homeschooled, most of them wanted to attend regular school.And you’ve got the religious nuts who just want to keep their children segregated so they fail miserably when faced with the real world.
On the flip side, I’ve known parents with kids with disabilities whose school has failed their child so miserably that they MUST homeschool. But at least they have that ability to do so.
Woops, just realized I was posting under the wrong name, sorry!
That’s my SJ login.
I wonder how many of those like anon who rail against public schools and other ’socialistic’ government programs are in favor of the Arena.
Speaking of God, what about The Blasphemy Challenge?
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200702/CUL20070205a.html
This way these Christians are running around is sadly pathetic and hilarious at the same time.
Excuse me… “THE way…”
Hello Andrew.I hope you enjoyed the post card from Iwo.
Andrew: You got a point?
Just wondered what people thought about this.
I rented “Jesus Camp” over the weekend.Looked pretty much like the American Taliban to me.They are really twisting some poor kids minds.
Andrew -I wonder how many people are blaspheming because they truly believe it and how many are lemmings doing it because other people are doing it?
Did anyone catch this out of Andrew’s link?
“”These kids apparently think this is some kind of cute stunt,” Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues at Concerned Women for America, told Cybercast News Service.”
So let me get this straight…concerned WOMEN for America is so underneath men’s rule, that they actually have men making policies for a women’s program?
I’d be almost speechless if it weren’t so incredibly sad. Damn that Eve.
Chuckle… Libs so predictable.
The left was celebrating the fact that two black coaches got their teams to the Super Bowl. Then they find out they are both also committed Christians. See what happens.
poor persecuted majority
Another fear which induces mankind to regard death as a calamity, is one which theological religion has inculcated, particularly the Protestant fundamentalists, and the Roman Catholic Church – the fear of hell, the imposition of penalties, usually out of all proportion to the errors of a life-time, and the terrors imposed by an angry God.To these man is told he will have to submit, and from them there is no escape, except through the vicarious atonement.There is, as you well know, no angry God, no hell, and no vicarious atonement.There is only a great principle of love animating the entire universe; there is the Presence of the Christ, indicating to humanity the fact of the soul and that we are saved by the livingness of that soul, and the only hell is the earth itself, where we learn to work out our own salvation, actuated by the principle of love and light, and incited thereto by the example of the Christ, and the inner urge of our own souls.This teaching anent hell is a remainder of the sadistic turn which was given to the thinking of the Christian Church in the Middle Ages.Each of us are left to work out our own salvation here on earth.
I could care less if they are Christian; everyone in my family is Christian save a couple of “lost souls” like myself. YOU are the intolerant one. YOU can’t accept people that don’t think or look like you. The Democratic party is all about diversity, which means your party is not.
“YOU” meaning outlander of course.
outie, you and Hank may as well add Andrew to your ignore list.He’s making sense and bringing it to ya’.
They’ll not have any of that Andrew.
“The Democratic party is all about diversity, which means your party is not.”
THAT, my friends, is true liberal thinking.
Interesting that a discussion about two great coaches has gotten to this. From everything I saw about the coaches they were “Christian” but not “preachers”; that is they did not try to convert eveyone. I’m sure they have some players who might not share their version of Christianity but they treated all their players well. And that, IMO, is why they are winners. (Although the wrong one got the trophy!)
BTW outie, the vast majority of liberals are christians.Reasonable christians.
Balls, what’s wrong with diversity?
And some are New Agers like you Tracy, who attack Christianity.
I have been reading this fascinating book, which suggests that white, conservative, traditional values, rural, Christians are decidedly in the numerical minority, but for various reasons have disproportionate influence on political power.
http://www.welcometothehomeland.com/page.php?s=1
The conservative majority that occured in U.S. House 1994 was the smallest majority in the past 60 years. It has been steadily eroded ever since 1994, with an uptick in that trend in the 2006 election. According to the data in this book, America is becoming more liberal, rather than more conservative.
Wichita, is an unusual city in that I think it is still predominantly a red city. The only blue area in Kansas is Douglas County/Lawrence – where there is an openly gay city council member.
Did any of you read the story where Lawrence was going to pass a domestic partner ordinance, but the State legislature has made a move to block Lawrence’s iniative? I think this move is wrong and the state legislature should stay out of Lawrence’s business.
Right… who is the party that opposed integration, opposed civil rights for minorities and women, opposed interracial marriage, (all freedoms of which they “praise” today) and oppose gay marriage?Where does this train of thinking end up?
Tracy, I hate it, but I have to disagree with your comment: “Reasonable Christians”. Liberal Christians have the weakest ground to stand on. They are true “cherry-pickers” as fundies like to refer to them. They don’t take dogma literally or reason literally.
And there is nothing wrong with “attacking” religion or non-religion as long as the attacking isn’t physical. Debate leads to greater understanding of both sides. Most people’s beliefs stand on pretty thin ground and they don’t realize it.
Tracy,I’m all for diversity. However, to say that Democrats are FOR diversity so that means Republicans are AGAINST it – is just stupid logic.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16616389.htm
“Once more raids start happening, they’ll (insurgents) melt away,” said Gill, who serves with the 1st Infantry Division in east Baghdad. “And then two or three months later, when we leave and say it was a success, they’ll come back.”
Soldiers interviewed across east Baghdad, home to more than half the city’s 8 million people, said the violence is so out of control that while a surge of 21,500 more American troops may momentarily suppress it, the notion that U.S. forces can bring lasting security to Iraq is misguided.
Lt. Hardy and his men of the 2nd Brigade of the Army’s 2nd Infantry Division, from Fort Carson, Colo., patrol an area southeast of Sadr City, the stronghold of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
A map in Hardy’s company headquarters charts at least 50 roadside bombs since late October, and the lieutenant recently watched in horror as the blast from one killed his Humvee’s driver and wounded two other soldiers in a spray of blood and shrapnel.
Soldiers such as Hardy must contend not only with an escalating civil war between Iraq’s Sunni and Shiite Muslims, but also with insurgents on both sides who target U.S. forces.
“We can go get into a firefight and empty out ammo, but it doesn’t accomplish much,” said Pvt. 1st Class Zach Clouser, 19, of York, Pa. “This isn’t our war – we’re just in the middle.”
Almost every foot soldier interviewed during a week of patrols on the streets and alleys of east Baghdad said that Bush’s plan would halt the bloodshed only temporarily. The soldiers cited a variety of reasons, including incompetence or corruption among Iraqi troops, the complexities of Iraq’s sectarian violence and the lack of Iraqi public support, a cornerstone of counterinsurgency warfare.
“They can keep sending more and more troops over here, but until the people here start working with us, it’s not going to change,” said Sgt. Chance Oswalt, 22, of Tulsa, Okla.
What KS?
That makes no sense. Conservatives, by definition, HAVE TO be opposed to anything that would change the society. So they would be opposed to further diversification, and that has been shown in their policies. They are the party of opposition, and I have already outlined that.
Good link Andrew.
I’ve never understood the churchified. To me? The praise and hosannahs ought to be held back in waiting for some actual proof of God in the form of divine blessings.
Andy,By definition???
You’re obviously reading the wrong definition.
OMG this is TOO funny!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×126376
Conservative – A contaminant that moves with the same velocity as water.csd.unl.edu/general/glossary-letter.asp
More on the Lawrence/domestic partnership story:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb/02/legislator_wants_stop_domestic_registry_plan_lawre/
Kansas allegedly has “strong home rule” laws. Does anyone know under what conditions the will of the communities can be superceded by the state? My understanding is that the proposed change would effect same sex and hetero couples who were not married. Thus the hate ammendment has no standing here, as I see it any way.
(n) conservative, conservativist (a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas)
(adj) conservative (resistant to change)
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=conservative
Pmama..The point wasn’t which team God was rooting for. The point was that these men have proven that in the environment you described, exhibiting their core Christian values and treating their players like human beings was NOT detrimental to their teams. They remained true to their faith at work as well as at home and church. As a Christian, I am very impressed that they were able to handle themselves so well.
But thanks for letting us know what God thinks about all this. If a Christian on this blog said that, they would be severly chastised for daring to know what God is thinking.
(n)liberal; “A person so open-minded that their brains have fallen out”
Heh heh KFG
Wikipedia does an adequate job of trying to define conservatism, I think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism
Nice try outlander, but I did post the REAL definition of Conservative, and you cannot deny that it is true.
I have only recently become a full-fledged liberal. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian background (includes church, church camps, bible school, Christian private schools, etc…) When I realized that I couldn’t believe in it anymore, I became a “fiscal conservative”. Mainly because, I was reared a Republican and it was hard to let it go, even though I did not agree with Republican values. So I justified my positions as based on different issues, and then I realized that Republicans were not fiscal conservatives. So I finally faced my values and beliefs and switched parties.
But there was something else that pushed me over the edge. Someone said (paraphrasing): “I’m a liberal because you can’t find a time in our nation’s history when liberals were on the wrong side of an issue.”
At first I blew this off as liberal garbage (as I had been brainwashed to do), but I couldn’t stop thinking about it. The fact is: that statement is true! I mean 40 years ago, a huge portion of white America HATED black people. Today, that hate is almost gone… in 40 years. I mean my grandmother still scoffs when a friend or relative’s grandchild marries someone who isn’t white. Why? Because she is a racist. She can’t believe that the kids of my generation do not even make those distinctions. And it is completely logical to believe that my children and grandchildren will look at the Gay community in the same light (even the Christians).
There is a moral zeitgeist in America that is always moving forward, and there are always people fighting to move it forward, those fighting to keep it steady (or even move it backwards), and those who just don’t care. I want to be looked at as having been a progressive/moral person by my grandchildren… not a bigot.
“A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy.”
Benjamin Disraeli
A playwright sent Disraeli a note:”Please find enclosed two tickets for my opening night play. Bring a friend, if you have one.”
The next day, Disraeli sent the playwright a note:”Sorry, I couldn’t use your tickets. Please use them for your second night, if you have one.”
Though attributed to many different people, I think Disraeli is the originator of this quote:
“There are liars, damned liars, and statisticians.”
“But it’s government that gives us monopolies.”
Wrong, Anon.
Government is responsive to voters.
If voters wanted private schools or home schools, they would vote for them.
The two percent that homeschool represent about as many people as want to homeschool.
The other 98 percent are what we call a “majority” in this country.
Attack christianity?P-shah.What’s wrong?Can’t accept progressive christians?Too bad.I’m a christian because I say I am.You fundies give normal christians a bad reputation.
Yup, you’re right, Steven.
Conservatives say that gov’t causes more problem than it solves . . . then they set about to prove it.
Yeah, Balls you are right.The diversity statement (not mine) was an unfounded sweeping generalization.
Main Entry: 2conservativeFunction: noun1 a : an adherent or advocate of political conservatism b capitalized : a member or supporter of a conservative political party2 a : one who adheres to traditional methods or views b : a cautious or discreet person
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” –Mark Twain
Here is another of my favorites:
Diplomacy is the art of saying “Nice doggie” until you can find a rock.– Will Rogers
There are those who scoff at the school boy, calling him frivolous and shallow. Yet it was the schoolboy who said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”– Mark Twain, Following the Equator, ch. 12, “Pudd’nhead Wilson’s New Calendar” (1897)
One of my favorite Mark Twain quotes. Funny you should like to quote one of America’s most infamous liberal atheists.
outie that WR qoute ROCKS.
Will Rogers has some good ones alright. I like:
“There are two theories when it comes to arguments with women. Neither one works.”
Andrew, congradulations on your liberal epiphany.As I had to so rudely point out above, they were right back in the Nam era also.As far as “cherry picking” the bible, I believe in what it says in the creed, but when it comes to young earth creationism, etc……I draw the line.
Boomer Esiason said of Tony Dungy’s proclamations, the coach was giving praise to “his God” and what a wonderful moment, considering just last year his oldest son committed suicide from depression and drug use.
I never say..it’s their God about someone’s faith and beliefs. God is what everyone can describe and the same to all.
It’s great he and Lovie are friends, giving glory to Godly coaching, so did owner of the Colts.
But sports can handle harsh language because its a game of pain and serious physical situations.
So a cruel evil liberal christian like me has to ask:Why was God so great at the super bowl?How great was he when the poor kid was killing himself?Where was he then?At another feel good event?I’m just asking.
That is cherry picking, Tracy. I’m sorry, but that is how I see it. I think Fundies are wrong, but they believe in something. Many Liberal Christians flat out deny certain dogmas of Christianity, but don’t deny all of them. That makes no sense to me. Initially I had problems with many of the Christian dogmas like “…no way to the Father except through Me, Jesus Christ,” that led me to look into it more, and then I inevitably realized “religion is bunk” as Thomas Edison put it. That is why it is so hard for me to understand people that share your beliefs. For me, it was a step, but you seem to have made compromises with it. I would like to know more about why you do and how.
“Oh Nooooooo. Not CHRISTIAN coaches. No No NO!
The libs have to HATE this. =)”
Typical.
As I said on one of the other threads, I adored Tom Landry, and he was one of the most well-known Christian coaches. If a team wants to pray before a game or during time outs, between plays, whenever, it doesn’t bother me– unless the prayer would lead to a penalty because it took too long.
I’m glad these men/coaches/players have faith. If it helps them get through the horrors and hurdles of life, great!
Andrew, years ago I was a complete hopeless drunk. In an effort to sober up, I began reading theology and litterary works on how and why the bible was written. After reading everything from Kierkegaard to C.S. Lewis,…..I was bewildered.(read as drunk again)Finally when I started reading from some professors of literature, it started to make sense.After it began to make sense, I read other religions and compared them, it made MORE sense.Life started to make sense.When I found Dr. Gerald Mann’s “Common Sense Religion”,it made complete sense.I can no longer read the bible in the same state of willfull ignorance that the fundies ask us to do.An anology would be when people here try to justify extreme views with quotes from founding fathers.They are old, out of context and irrelevant to the over-all message.Much like claiming Noah actually DID collect EVERY animal.Fundies want to say yes, because the bible says it’s true.Not only is it not litterally true,it’s irrelevant to the storie wether it is true or not.
“…and the only hell is the earth itself…”
Amen, Tracy.
Andrew,I have to disagree with you somewhat on the cherry-picking, too, although I tend to call it pick and choose.
Case in point: Fundie Christians like to use the homosexual quote (man laying with man) from Leviticus, but they never do the same with the many others in that book, including killing children, stoning women, the wearing of blended fabrics, food, etc. Are these not relevant, too?
Andrew, isn’t Jerry Falwell a fundie?Here’s his take on the subject:http://www.fallwell.com/ignored%20verses.html
Merciful heaven! The soldiers are telling it like it is? Does this make them traitors, like us liberals?
Ardee, TAKE THE LINK!You’ll love it.Bookmark it.
Wow, you’re right Tracy, it is a good site.
But this is where we differ. I see this hypocrisy as proof of the ENTIRE bible’s irrelevance. There are a lot of things I like about the Bible and Jesus, and I have an enormous respect for many Christians. Even Mormonism, as ridiculous as it is, generally turns out pretty decent, happy people.BUT I am more interested in the truth. I just don’t see how the Bible, or any other holy scripture, is anything BUT the word of men. Sure these men led pretty good lives for their times, but that was their times. There are plenty of ideas/values/worldviews today that I believe are more relevant to our times, and they do not rely on superstition or myth.
I know how many people compromise the progress of reason/rationalism/secularism in science, philosophy, and politics with their respective religions. It is compartmentalizing. I think it has more to do with the vast complexities of our brain than any real desire for a connection with a deity.For example, you may have done something really bad once in your life, but you lied to yourself about it. You will eventually get to the point where you believe you didn’t do this thing, but in another part of your mind YOU KNOW what you did. That is amazing to me, and I equate this with compromising between contemporary secular values/systems of thought and ancient religions that are based on completely different values/systems of thought.
But I got to go to work. I’ll check the responses later.
Wheeee doggies!
A hot bed of liberals! Let the Bible Thumping begin!
Let’s expose the libs brown-stained underwear in public!
Let’s see, we got Andrew, the born again Atheist!
Tracy, the wide-bottomed part time Christian who likes the lick the bottom sides of dead men!
Wheeehaa! Gitter done! yahoo!
Tracy: The impression I get from you is one of shucking rocks at Christianity while professing Jesus and hiding behind cross that saved you.
Andrew: You make excellent arguments. Push Tracy our way. We’ll take him.
Andrew you are correct.It is written by men.The over-all message is what’s important, not wether each and every word is truth.It has been my experience that religion only confused me, until I quit searching for some absolute.This scripture right here sums up the only absolute truths in the bible that are the essence of the entire thing:”Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”(Matthew 22:37-40)The whole thing is about agape’.Arguing about creationism, gays, and any number of other hot button fundie issues, is completely beside the point. Judging others faith is beside the point, and preached against by christ.
What’s wrong outie?Do I have to speak in tongues and pretend to heal people before you’ll accept me as christian?
Oh, and look out for that rock!
I believe Jesus had a great sense of humor, something that is completely lost on modern fundies.
Only a fundie can tell another Christian they’re not Christian enough.
No one has attacked you Tracy. And you never seem to miss an opportunity to trash your professed faith. It makes it really hard to believe you.
Yeah, those are some pretty funny rocks you keep throwing my friend.
Lord-uh-mercy!
Tracy doesn’t have a splinter in his eye, it’s a freaking pine tree! Or maybe I should make that dogwood!
Thanks for the link, Tracy! Yes, I love it! And I’ll definitely bookmark it for future use. ;)
It appears that if you don’t agree with every bit of Christian dogma–to the LETTER–you are the enemy.
And you wonder why some people don’t want to buy into it?
A federal judge ruled that he has to allow Scooter Libby’s taped testimony released to the media.
We get to hear for ourselves the lies he told the prosecutor.
You know, it’s just been one piece of bad news after another for the rePUKES lately, hasn’t it.
That’s the thing about a sinking ship . . . it tends to just keep going down.
CrapnAmerica, when commenting on public/private school issues, shouldn’t you divulge your conflict of interest?
“anonymous”?
Calls for accountability ring a little hollow from someone with the email “anonymous@anonymous.com”.
“JR”?
Not asking for accountability. Nor for input from the self-appointed blog police.
“JR”?
CrapnAmerica, when commenting on public/private school issues, shouldn’t you divulge your conflict of interest?
Posted by: anonymous | February 05, 2007 at 09:03 PM
Soooo…CapnCrunch is a school janitor?
Golfnut,
Ever see the movie 16 Candles? The school janitor knows more about the students than even they do.
Roxie,Huh? You’re equating Hollywood to real life?