Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- XXX on Open thread 11/21
- Daniel on ACORN stole election?
- Daniel on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on Open thread 11/21
- satatom on ACORN stole election?
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- Wahine_Tara on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/21
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/21
Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Feb. 15, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
- Permalink
- Comments RSS
- Both comments and trackbacks are closed
144 Comments
Is Iran behind the insurgency that has destabilized Iraq, and destroying the progress the fledgling Iraqi government has struggled so hard for?
Is Iran behind the killing of American soldiers in Iraq?
It seems like that IS the case. In fact, the recent shipment of Armour-piercing, .05 cal weapons, took ONLY 45 DAYS from the time they arrived in Iran – to the time an AMERICAN officer was killed by them in Iraq.
45 days!
How can anyone know that and STILL refuse to accept that Iran is, at worst, behind the insurgency, or, at best, using it to provide some target practice?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=I4S2BGL02GM0VQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran13.xml
Why do Democrats feel its necessary to bolster those who kill Americans – and trash those who stand by us?
And, knowing that Iran is trying to undermine our mission, killing Americans in the progress, what actions should we take?
Any ideas?
So what if Iran is supplying arms to the Iraqi insurgents. I seem to recall the United States supplying Iraq with arms against Iran and some of what we provide were chemical weapons.
So what?
SO WHAT???
They are killing your countrymen and all you can say is “so what?”
Do you have ANY concern at all that this insurgency is being funded by Iran AGAINST the United States?
Should we stick our head in the sand while they continue to promote the killing of our soldiers?
Who do you prefer to see dead? Iranians? Or Americans?
“Why do Democrats feel its necessary to bolster those who kill Americans – and trash those who stand by us?”
I don’t see it as “bolstering” Iranians, I see democrats actually realizing the reality that we can not fight, let alone win a war with Iran. So what are they trying to do? Have a diplomatic resolution to this situation. The US can not attack Iran and expect to win. The rest of the world won’t go along with us either because of our past lies about Iraq. The US has a serious credibility challenge out there right now.
“And, knowing that Iran is trying to undermine our mission, killing Americans in the progress, what actions should we take?”
Pull back, redeploy, let the country make their own decisions. If they want a civil war than let them. We should redeploy to a strictly security force (referee of a sort) and protect the innocent and infrastructure of the country (i.e. oil production, electric, water, etc…). We should allow them to fight it out without interference, without sticking our solders in the way of their bullets. Iran is funding a civil war, not a war against the US. I will be willing to bet that if we pull back to a defense type attitude, than you will see US causalities go WAY down.
“…the recent shipment of Armour-piercing, .05 cal weapons…”
You mean the ones that were labeled in English?
Wake up GSheridan. You’re being sucked in.
“Vouchers are not an end in themselves; they are a means to make a transition from a government to a market system. The deterioration of our school system and the stratification arising out of the new industrial revolution have made privatizing education far more urgent and important than it was in 1955.
Vouchers can promote rapid privatization only if they create a large enough demand for private schools to constitute a real incentive for entrepreneurs to enter the industry. That requires first that the voucher be universal, available to all who are now entitled to send their children to government schools and second that the voucher, though less than the government now spends per pupil on education, be large enough to cover the costs of a private profit-making school offering a high-quality education. If that is achieved there will in addition be a substantial number of families that will be willing and able to supplement the voucher in order to get an even higher quality of education. As in all cases, the innovations in the “luxury” product will soon spread to the basic product.
For this image to be realized, it is essential that no conditions be attached to the acceptance of vouchers that interfere with the freedom of private enterprises to experiment, to explore, and to innovate. If this image is realized, everybody, except a small group of vested interests, will win: parents, students, dedicated teachers, taxpayers—for whom the cost of the educational system will decline—and especially the residents of central cities, who will have a real alternative to the wretched schools so many of their children are now forced to attend.”
Iraq now has a constituion and a government, and still the people are killing each other.
What more can , or should, we or anyone else do.
The long standing hatred between Shia and Sunni is not a big secret, as it has been ongoing for a thousand years. In spite of this knowledge, we still went into the middle, are now are seemingly in a morass!
Does it really make any difference when we leave??
The final result seems clear, it is merely a matter of time.
What a waste!
“Why do Democrats feel its necessary to bolster those who kill Americans – and trash those who stand by us?”
And yet ANOTHER candidate for the blog’s dumbest post….
Trashing those that stand by us?
Bolstering those who kill Americans?
If you are not with us you are against us?
If you dont support this preznit and his lies, you are guilty of treason?
Just how much do some posters get paid by the grand ol’ party?
And she is a fossil fuels shill too!!
If she was a lesbian, I would wonder if she was dead eye dick’s daughter….
hehehehehehehehehehehehheehheheheeh
I would prefer we had not invaded Iraq in the first place! Would Iran want us to fail, of course they would as has been pointed out we helped their enemy. We are threatening them with everything including a nuclear strike. But they are not alone in aiding the insurgency, Syria, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the list goes on of countries that have or are aiding them. Many even in Europe wish us to fail, they are at least giving moral support.
You know there is something I have wondered about every since it was pointed out. Why is ammunition that is suppose to have been made in Iran, supplied by Iran, have printing in English? The only pictures I have seen of the ammunition that is suppose to have came from Iran had English printing on it! Since there are only three countries that come to mind in the world that the main language is English Canada, Great Briton and the United States of the Americas. Would it not be more of an indicator that these munitions came from one of these countries? Oh I know, it was a way that Iran could try and fool us into not thinking it was them that supplied them to the insurgency! Maybe Iran bought it from one the above counties, but then why would someone sell ammunition to Iran? You would think they would know better of it!
But then if Bush had not sidetracked the war on terrorism by going on his own little private war. Then maybe this ammunition would then be in Afghanistan, but then perhaps not. There would have been no need to try and gather support and make the American public want to attack Iran if that was the case. Afghanistan is not on the P.N.A.C.s list of countries to be invaded!
Does it make me mad that this ammunition is being used to kill Americans, yes. As mad as I am that Bush put them into harms way for his own reasons. As angry as I am that he ignored the real enemies of this country in favor of his delusional desire to bring down Saddam!Impeach Bush and try him for treason, along with those in his cabal! Yes I do believe that Iran has sent aid to the insurgency. They are not saints in this combat of sinners, but if Russia did not attack the U.S. for aiding the insurgency they fought in Afghanistan. Using your logic along with Bush’s they should have.
Oh, and btw, just a SMALL point…
Americans are getting killed in iraq because bushco SENT them to war after he and his lied about WMD, 9/11, and the “need” to take down saddam.
And does anyone think this war is NOT about oil? The shiller’s favorite shillee.
No, Americans are not getting killed in iraq because of iran. They are getting killed because bush sent them there.
I see the blame America First crowd is busy. Why do you people feel the need to get all snuggly with Iran? Didn’t the you people in congress give Bush the authority to go in?
“Bush says he’s not seeking new war”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/02/15/MNGPSO4THA1.DTL&type=politics
Well if he doesnt watch what he says, we are going to end up in a war with them…
Bush is a moron, if you dont want to get your ass kicked by the bully, you dont walk up to him and call him a jackass…
True Bush sent them there but Iranians are doing some of the killing. If anyone is to blinded by hatred of Bush to see this then there is nothing you can do the convince them otherwise. Calling someone dumb beacause of their opinion is just a reflection of their own inadequacy. Liberalism is the bane to society
Calling anyone who disagrees with bushco a traitor and someone who empowers terrorists IS dumb. Period.
Yes, indeed, some opinions ARE dumb when based on fantasy and rushism, not rational thought.
Are folks entitled to their dumb opinions? Of course. But it doesnt make them any less dumb.
If someone was of the “opinion” that the earth is flat, would “dumb” not be one of the words used to describe them? In addition to several other colorful terms, heheheheheh.
Where is the Iraqi oil industry these days? You hear about attacks from time to time, but little else.
I would suppose the the oil production/distruibution system would be one of our biggest interests. It could produce a major income stream for the country, and help get their hands out of our pockets!
Didn’t the Oracle Cheney say something similiar??
JR – No, not those, check out my link.
Farmie – you are running true to form again this fine morning. Full of insults, piss and vinegar, but little else.
Don’t tell me you’re still mad because I handed you your ass on the power plants thread?
Get a clue, here. If Iran is subsidizing the killing of American soldiers – Iran has informally (by their actions) declared war upon us.
Or are you one of those who thinks that’s all fine and dandy – it’s okay if Americans die?
If you could see past your blinding hatred for all things American, Bush, Capitalistic, etc., you might find that appeasement of our enemies isn’t the route to survival.
GS – when the US helped Saddam in his attack on Iran did we “informally (by their actions) declared war upon Iran”? How about when the Vincennes shot down that airliner?
“Or are you one of those who thinks that’s all fine and dandy – it’s okay if Americans die?
If you could see past your blinding hatred for all things American, Bush, Capitalistic, etc.,”
Thanks for proving my point, GS. You do it much better than I ever could.
“Liberalism is the bane to society”
Try living in a totally capitalistic world and see how far you get.
Hey Ben,
“How about when the Vincennes shot down that airliner?’
You seem to be fixated on this unfortunate incident, who do you believe? The US Navy and their investigation of this incident or the government of Iran?
Just wondering.
Hank
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
A little link to the thread where the “ass handing” went on.
The only one who got handed their ass was gee sherri. The ass handing was done by ALL the folks who oppose the newest water hog and polluting coal plant proposed for kansas.
heheheh. Even paulie the shillie and russell the roundhead abandonded her. How bad do you have to be for THAT to happen? heheheheheheheheheheh
Dont believe me? Click here:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/02/clouds_gatherin.html#comments
GSheridan
“Don’t tell me you’re still mad because I handed you your ass on the power plants thread?”
Dear?
I’ll invite the readers to check out that thread.
It’s called “Clouds gathering….”
Sweetness? You busted yourself there as the worst poster to “grace” this blog since Paul Rosell! I’m really surprised you want to remnind anyone of it.
Our troops are getting killed in Iraq by Iraninans?
So let’s get them out of Iraq!
The only person who advocates killing Americans are the ones who advocated sending them to a bad war in the FIRST PLACE!
We TOLD you this would happen. You put Shia in charge and Shia are..DUH Iranians!
OF COURSE they’re going to help them out.
If we really wanted our soldiers to die, we’d be saying “send more”…
Oh wait…someone is saying that. but it aint the liberals!
hee hee hee hee
great cartoon here
The righties will HATE it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×217303
Hank – it happened. We have acknowledged that our ship was illegally in Iranian waters when it did. We then claim it was an accident. So, at best it was negligence. And, yes, it was derfinitely unfortunate for the hundreds who died as a result. But the fact remains that Iran has good reason to be concerned about our war footing against them again in view of that.
And don’t forget our support of Saddam in his war at the time.
I would like to see an independent investigation. That has never been allowed. A self-investigation is ‘by definition’ suspect.
Many years ago the Soviets shot down a KAL flight that had apparently accidentally flown into sensitive airspace. If I eacall correctly the Soviets calimed that it was an accident. Did you blindly accept that claim? And, remember, in that case the airliner was where it did not belong. The Iranian airliner, on the other hand, was in Iranian airspace in a regular commercial corridor and in radio communication with air traffic control during the entire time it was aloft.
GS what is a .05cal weapon anyway? You know that would make the bullet the width of a pencil lead right? I think you meant .50cal.
Oh, and just because the round says .50 doesn’t mean it was made in an English-speaking nation. Most rounds have the caliber marked and the initials of the manufacturer (usually in the Roman alphabet or Cyrillic).
We know that weapons, money, and training are going from Iran to Iraq. We don’t know who is calling the shots though. But an interesting point was raised here. Even if the Iranian Government IS involved, how is that any different than what the U.S. Government has sanctioned and done in the past?
Should we try and stop this activity?- YES!
Can we honestly (and without hypocrisy) take retribution against the Iranian Government?- I don’t think so, at least not yet.
Dear Ben,
Interesting narrative of the events.
It might be helpful to understand the full situation then. Let me fill in a few significant points:
The Iranians had been actively mining the Straights of Hormuz. They were attempting to cut off access to and from Kuwait. An Act of war.
Mines that were laid by the Iranians had struck and damaged one of our warships in international waters, the USS Samual B Rogers in April of that year. An act of war by the Iranians.
At the time the Uss Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters they were in pursuit of Iranian gunboats that had challenged them in The Straights of Hormuz. An act of war by the Iranian government.
The airport that the airliner took off from was a dual purpose airport. It also was a base for F16s. When the airliner took off it did not have its IFF on. the Vincennes challenged the airliner with its IFF capabilities and on radio channels that should have been monitored by the airliner.
It was an incident of war. An unfortunate accident.
You either choose to believe our government or you choose to believe the Iranian government.
Its really as simple as that.
Hank
Hank – thing is, when dealing with an adversary we must also try to figure where they are coming from. They are naturally distrustful of us due to our past support of saddam and of that incident. Parhaps had we not so happily supported Saddam we might not today be reaping the results of that support.
GS -You get so fired up about things that you don’t have full information on. And then, it’s the liberals fault…
Let’s see – do I support our troops? Absolutely, 100%. Do I think that Bush has sent them needlessly to their deaths for his personal war? Absolutely, 100%. Do i think going after Iran would be Another fatal mistake? Absolutely, 100%. If we hadn’t stuck our noses in where they don’t belong, Iran wouldn’t be supporting things behind the scenes now. Funny how all these other nations who are supporting the insurgency (like, oh, Saudi Arabia) aren’t being lambasted by the conservatives and we aren’t being told we should go after them. Oh wait, that would negatively effect Bush’s oil profits, wouldn’t it? Right. Maybe you should stop taking everything that Bush claims as fact as the truth (since it has already been PROVEN he has lied to us in the past, and oh wait, THAT’s how we wound up in this damn war in the first place… )and do a little research of your own. We are still supposedly going after Bin Laden (well, whenever Bush remembers to anyways) in Afghanistan – which by the way is where our troops SHOULD be – we are already spread too thin in Iraq, and are sending troops back for third and fourth tours of duty, oh and what about that 20,000 troop surge? So where the hell are you planning on gettting the troops to go to war with Iran in the first place? Talk about opening ourselves up for disaster! Every troop besides for those in basic training would be fighting in another country, leaving NOONE here to protect us – kind of like throwing open your front door to a robber and saying “Here, take whatever you want!”
But they [the Iranians] do have us to thank for getting into power in the first place.
Where’s the love Iran?
So what, right. Didn’t the French help us during our war with England.We supplied weapons to bin Laden to fight the Russians. Iraqis don’t want our troops there and will take weapons from anyone who will sell them. What the hell did you expect GS, it’s war after all.
You either choose to believe our government or you choose to believe the Iranian government.Its really as simple as that. Hank
Like I’m really going to believe this government again!!!!
Mostly good points kscitydude, but France actually went to WAR with England during our revolution they didn’t just “help us”.
GSheridan,
“Don’t tell me you’re still mad because I handed you your ass on the power plants thread?”
You mean your insane claim that Holcomb would need 29,000 acre-feet of water to “fill initially”? Visualize a column of water 10 acres square by over 1/2 MILE high!http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/02/clouds_gatherin.html#comment-60377736
TX needs more power by 2008, and can get it with efficiency and renewables. Waiting 4 or 5 years for dinosaur coal plants to built is STUPID.
Tri-State say their rates WILL go UP, if they build new coal plants — customers will pay for $5 BILLION worth of GHG-producing dinosaurs. http://www.westernresourceadvocates.org/energy/index.php
KFG,Whether the right likes it or not, doesn’t Mary Cheney’s pregnancy change the whole debate about gay marriage/family rights?
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/11117/mary-cheneys-pregnancy-is-indeed-political/
True Ben,
But when you try and figure out where Iran is coming from why does time begin when we shot down the airliner?
Why not go back to when they mined the Straights of Hormuz? Why not go back to when they took our embassy people hostage? Why pick and choose the facts to support the false assumption that we are the bad guys?
This is an important point. It goes beyond the unfortunate airliner downing. The left constantly attacks the credibility of anyone they disagree with. Our administration is a liar. Our military is a lying. Republicans are liars. Our adversaries are to be believed if it damages the administration and can be politically advantageous to your cause.
You are either a part of this dispicable, cowardly tactic or a victim of it if you choose to believe them.
It’s as simple as that.
Hank
cosmos – you really gotta stay off the power plant topic, you understand even less than Farmie – and that’s not saying much.
Yes, I said they would need 29,000 acre feet initially. They will. I would be willing to bet you still don’t understand the condenser issue, either.
JR – I get a kick out of seeing you kissing Farmie’s rotund behind every chance you get. You and I both know she made a fool of herself with her lies on that thread – and she ran away bawling when she got caught. I just hope others will read up on her childish antics instead of taking your word for it. I can’t quite figure out all her references to lesbianism – maybe she IS a dyke, but are you so PW’ed that you defend her every goofy word?
From what I’ve seen, so far, you’re head and shoulders above her when it comes to intellect – but you seem to struggle with her ‘bully’ facade.
You can do better.
She’s really not that bright.
Time does not begin with the shootdown. Nor does it begin with the US backing of Saddam. It has to include everything. Some big things that predated the mining: Our overthrow of their democracy to install a dictator (Shah). Their revolution that overthrew the Shah. Their siezure of our embassy (both bad and just plain stupid). Then, to make matters worse, their not releasing the hostages. Then, the arms deal that helped release those hostages.
Moving forward, the US “tilt” toward Saddam including intelligence and matreial support in his unprovoked attack in Iran. That, in turn, led to the mining.
Three big events – all which deserve condemnation:
Overthrowing their governmentEmabassy hostage taking/holdingSupporting Saddam in his war.
Bad on both sides.
Now you can call me a liar and coward all you like but don’t think that makes it true. I suppose I could equally claim that you are the same for believing everything the Bush administration trots out. By the ways, how is the WMD search coming along?
Well, just so’s it’s out there.
Think, people.
Evidence of Iranian weapons in Iraq does not prove that they were provided by Iran FOR THE PURPOSES OF SUPPORTING THE INSURGENCY/CIVIL WAR/SHI’A CAUSES V. THE SUNNI/AL QAEDA.
Good god, there was a big ass war there within the last generation. And the US ground forces failed to secure any weapons caches in Iraq during the Big Run to Baghdad in 2003. It’s entirely possible that .50-cal munitions come from the Iran/Iraq war, from Iraqi weapons caches, from weapons dealers with Iranian inventories, weapons stolen from the Iranian Army, or from the highest levels of the Iranian government.
Just because they’re in Iraq now does not necessarily mean they were put there by Iran’s leaders.
Given the track record of the Bush administration, I’d need waaaay more direct physical evidence of Iran’s involvment before I’d be willing to say “hellzyeah let’s nook them Persian bastards NOW.”
In other words (Wendy’s words):”GS -You get so fired up about things that you don’t have full information on. And then, it’s the liberals fault…”Posted by: Wendy | February 15, 2007 at 11:19 AM
First of all, I didn’t call you a coward or a liar. Unless of course you accept the premise that it is OK to attack a man’s credibility merely because of a difference of opinion.
And I agree with you on many points. However, with respect of the Vincennes, why do you insist on missing my point? You use the Vincennes incident constantly to make various inane jabs at our govenrnments actions and credibility without noting every thing that happened that day. Furthermore, you ignore constant hostility that Iran had been demonstrating toward our Navy and the tankers of many nations in the straights of Hormuz during the year that led up to that day.
That airliner took off from an Iranian military F16 base without its identfier on. It was flying toward a US Navy ship actively engaged in a running gun fight that was started by Iranian gun boats. It was not monitoring the communication channels required by comercial aircraft in that region.
All of these pertinent facts about that incident makes it disengenous for you to use it as a talking point to make the United States look bad.
It’s as simple as that.
Hank
PS While were at it, what evidence do you have that I believe “…everything the Bush administration trots out.”?
Just wondering.
I’m not calling you a liar, Ben, I think you do your best to tell things as you see them. I respect that.
And I also agree that we made mistakes in the past where the Middle East was concerned, some of which likely have contributed to the state of affairs we are in today.
Supporting Saddam didn’t seem that big of a deal at the time – after all, he was the lesser of two evils back then.
But dynamics change, enemies and allies come and go.
The UN Oil for Food program was a disaster, and the world had dealt with the dictator for as long as anyone reasonably should.
Why wouldn’t we think there were WMD’s when the ones Saddam, himself, listed at the end of the first Gulf War, were never accounted for as destroyed?
When 8 years of intelligence gathering from the Clinton administration resulted in the ideal of removing Saddam from power – why are we acting surprised that GWB did EXACTLY what Clinton advocated? Were the Democrats not listening when Bill advocated the same thing?
Now, the liberals act as though the war was drummed up, on the spur of the moment, by the Bush Administration – when nothing could be further from the truth.
This was a long time in coming.
Pedant – pull your head out of your Southern aperture.
If you bothered to read the article, you would find that the .50 cal were the ones sold to Iran 45 days before they killed the Americans.
45 days.
Get a clue here.
Hank – at best it was gross negligence. Since we had made the decision to operate under a congested commercial air corridor why was the decision made to ignore commercial radio traffic? And a slow, lumbering, ascending jumbo jet should look a lot different than a supersonic diving F-16.
And “You are either a part of this dispicable, cowardly tactic or a victim of it if you choose to believe them” sure sounds a lot like “call you a coward or a liar”
As for “believe “…everything the Bush administration trots out.”?” The whole premise of acting against Iran today is based on what the Bush administration is trotting out.
I would suspect that had we not demonstrated open hostility toward Iran prior to that date they might not have demonstrated hostility toward out miliatry there.
Pendant,The weapons are coming from Iran. Certain weapons and ammo found have been dated within the last 2 years and manufactured in Iran. Documents and Intel link the IRGC and other Iranian groups to the Shi’a militias.
Do you think that we would be fooled by something as obvious as old munitions?You must think you are smarter than every Coalition member in Iraq.
Read the article GS posted. The sniper rifles were built in Austria and shipped to the Iranian Police. This is evidenced with export approval documents provided by the Austrians. The weapons are all numbered uniquely, the list of the numbers provided by the Austrian government, and 45 days after they went to Iran, they were in the hands of insurgents in Iraq killing Americans.
This is just one of MANY MANY MANY reports. There are, of course, old munitions left in Iraq, but those have nothing to do with these reports. These reports concern money, EFPs, different parts for IEDs, assorted weapons, munitions, and even some personnel and training. There is no debate about whether Iran is helping supply the Shi’a militias; the debate is whether the Iranians are being ordered to by the highest levels of their government.
The difference between the Clinton and Bush positions are very simple – one that the Bushie choose to ignore.
When Clinton made his policy change regarding Iraq, Saddam was not allowing the UN Inspector in to verify that there were no WMD programs.
When Bush attacked Iraq in March of 2003, the Inspectors had to leave Iraq to avoid being killed in the invasion.
The UN Inspectors were well on the way to PROVING that there was no WMD program when Bush decided to launch an invasion.
Simple.
As for Iran, General Pace has stated, without reservation, that there is NO PROOF that the Iranian government is actively supporting the insurgency.
That is enough for me, at this point.
“The whole premise of acting against Iran today is based on what the Bush administration is trotting out.”
Do yo seriously believe this? Really? Do you think about what you write?
Do you chose to ignore everything the so called president of Iran has threatened to do? Are you again saying that time started when ever it is convienient for you to make your point?
There is no history on Iran prior to the Bush adminstration. There is nothing to consider concerning our actions against Iran other than what the Bush administration “is trotting out.”
Really?
WSClark – while you are correct in the weapons-search assessment, there was really no way to find the weapons (if they didn’t exist) that Saddam claimed he had at the end of the Gulf War – so we were going to be at loggerheads over it, anyway.
Clinton, when he signed the Iraqi Liberation Act, insisted that Saddam was a world danger and needed to be replaced with a democracy.
Those were his sentiments – and they are recorded in the library of Congress.
General Pace isn’t the end source on Iran. As Andrew says – the evidence seems very clear.
“Do you chose to ignore everything the so called president of Iran has threatened to do?”
You’re going to have to enlighten us here, Hank. What has the Iranian President threatened to do in Iraq?
“There is no history on Iran prior to the Bush adminstration.” Say what? Iran has been around for millenia. And they have not been known for attacking their neighbors.
Yes, I hear the statements of Ahmadinejad. He is a nutcase. There is also a lot of dissent in Iran; his part fared poorly in their recent elections. However, if we attack Iran we will unify them. That, in my opinion, would be bad for us.
By deliberately creating chaos in Iraq Bush has created a real mess. His successor will have his hands full trying to deal with the legacy of Bush’s historic blunder.
So, Gee Sure, if they find evidence that English arms are being used in Iraq by the insurgency, should we attack Great Britan?
If a Canadian citizen is aiding the Sunni’s, should we nuke Ottawa?
There are undoubtedly Saudi’s that are aiding and abetting the Sunni insurgency – should we invade Saudi Arabia?
The point is – there is NO PROOF of Iranian government involvement.
WS – the evidence is growing. And, as Hank mentioned the President of Iran has made numerous comments about attempting to destroy the US and Israel, along with other Western targets.
While I think he is talking out of his ass – his claims, added to the fact that he is funneling support in the way of money and weapons, and perhaps even manpower into Iraq to fight us – should be taken into consideration.
No, we can’t track EVERY weapon that is used to kill our soldiers, but there is absolute proof that the ones in this case were sold by the Austrians no more than 45 days before they were used to kill us in Iraq.
They were under the control of the President of Iran – so – a simple connecting of the dots is in order.
We can’t allow our soldiers in Iraq to be left high and dry if Iran is beginning a full-scale supplement of the insurgency.
Can we?
GSheridan,
“cosmos – you really gotta stay off the power plant topic, you understand even less than Farmie – and that’s not saying much.
Yes, I said they would need 29,000 acre feet initially. They will. I would be willing to bet you still don’t understand the condenser issue, either.”—-You said “fill initially”. You ADD water to “evaporative” heat exchanger cooling towers as NEEDED, NOT “initially”.
They “anticipate” having 29,000 acre-feet “AVAILABLE”.
http://www.holcombstation.coop/Environmental/water.cfm“Each of the three new units will require about 8,000 acre-feet of water to meet annual production needs. …Wheatland anticipates having about 29,000 acre-feet of water rights available for power plant and other uses.”
The water becomes steam, like in this photo,coalplant2.jpg
“They were under the control of the President of Iran – so – a simple connecting of the dots is in order.”-GS
Nobody is saying that GS. There you go, lying again. This is why no one respects your opinions. You should just stick to the facts to prove what you are arguing. Making up shit to prove them is just pathetic… and I am mostly with you on this one…
“However, if we attack Iran we will unify them. That, in my opinion, would be bad for us.”
I agree. Who is sugesting that we attack them? Not the administration. The political enemies on the left have built this straw dog to tear down.
Did you listen to the president’s news conference? Have you ever heard anybody in the administration suggest we should “attack Iran”?
The administration is working on several fronts with several nations on the problem of Iran. The left constantly ignores or mischaracterizes the true policies of the administration.
It’s easier to get your panties all in a wad about attacking Iran rather than honestly debating the policies we are trying.
Hank
“General Pace isn’t the end source on Iran.”
General Peter Pace is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. That sort of makes him the top ranking military man. I think he has a fair amount of cred, although his career is now over for standing up to Bush.
Secondly, the Iranian prez made a statement about wiping Israel off the map – let Israel deal with him – we have given them enough aid over the decades.
If there is NO PROOF of direct Iranian governmental involvement then we cannot proceed, despite what Bush says.
Bush has lied to us before – why should we believe him now?
“The left constantly ignores or mischaracterizes the true policies of the administration.”
Bush said that he KNEW that Iran was behind the insurgency and he was “going to do something about it.”
That is straight from the horse’s ass, er, horse’s mouth.
Bullcrap, Andrew, whom do you suppose has the final say over the National Iranian Police Organisation?
You may be ‘mostly’ with me on this – but where you deviate is the problem.
If I give a party and the children run amok – ultimately I am the responsible party. Same thing.
So the director of the FBI or CIA can’t make decisions without the President? And just because the President is the ultimate boss, does not mean he is responsible for their criminal acts.
So: BULLSHIT on you GS.
Lol. And you still did not bother to show me the proof. Do you admit then, that you lied?
You better answer that question and not change the subject either.
Cosmos – the water towers are FILLED before the coal refining ever cranks up. Why do you have a problem understanding that?
The plumes you see are mostly smoke from the fires that burn the coal. The steam is forced upwards through the turbines causing them to spin – and they, in turn create the electricity.
Some of the steam escapes with the smoke – they utilize that to clear the soot from the stacks, but most goes into the cooling towers where the condensers recycle the water, cool it, and shoot it through the turbines again.
The plumes you see are NOT toxic for the most part, but the do contain CO2 and trace elements of Mercury. That is what the precipitators and the scrubbers are for.
What is so difficult about that for you?
The water towers MUST be filled first – they MUST be.
I’m tired of telling you that.
Look – Holcomb is going to get the expansion.
Quit bawling about it.
Yes, Andrew, in the US, we delegate authority – but do you REALLY believe that the National Iranian Police Organisation usurped power and filtered the guns in WITHOUT the President’s knowledge?
That’s a real stretch.
…
“Lol. And you still did not bother to show me the proof. Do you admit then, that you lied?
You better answer that question and not change the subject either.”-Andrew (aka me)
… GS you disappoint me but do not surprise me.
Yes, I think we can safely assume that Amendenijad (or however you spell it) is involved, but we cannot prove it.
The way you blather on about these assumptions like they are fact is why we do not respect your opinions. You do this on virtually every topic. If you are going to make assumptions, credit them as such.
Right, GS, and that’s why Cheney knew nothing about Libby leaking Valerie Plame’s name either…. Grow up yourself – You have yet to provide facts to your argument… NOTHING you have given has PROVEN that the Iranian president knew ANYTHING about the arms distribution. Now, noone is denying that he MIGHT have known. What we are saying is that there is NO PROOF that he did – and here goes Bush again, jumping the gun WITHOUT having all the facts – Oh wait, isn’t that what got us into Iraq in the first place?
Hank – I hope you are right. However, with things like kidnapping diplomats as we have recently done (and been complained about by Iraqi officials) I worry. The past four years have not exactly made me real trustful of this administration.
GSheridan,
“The water towers MUST be filled first – they MUST be.”
So you actually believe that they put water = 10 acres square by over 1/2 MILE high into those cooling towers?
That’s a very neat “trick”!!!
Note the phrase “ANNUAL PRODUCTION” — that means each year, and implies ongoing and continuous, not “initial filling”
http://www.holcombstation.coop/Environmental/water.cfm“Each of the three new units will require about 8,000 acre-feet of water to meet ANNUAL PRODUCTION needs. …Wheatland anticipates having about 29,000 acre-feet of water rights available for power plant and OTHER USES.”
And are you both reading AND math-challenged?Three new units @ 8,000 each = 24,000 acre-feet/year.
29,000 – 24,000 = 5,000 acre-feet/year for “OTHER USES”.
Duh, even my small intellect says 8000 acre feet annually. Not initial fill. No reading comprehension again, but that has been well proven.
So, bloggers here can surmise this is what she did with studies that cosmos and I first used. Misread, misinterpret, and make it up. Just another day on the blog for little miss fossil fuels.
I’m not sure why my being a lesbian bothers her so much. And of course, JR is defending me ’cause he is hot for me. HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE
And I am so sure bloggers here know me as someone who runs away bawling from ANYTHING.
No one cares GS, you are showing your ass again here on this thread and getting it thoroughly kicked. You think people wont gather that is exactly what happened on the coal plant thread?
It gives me fits of laughter thinking of her sitting smugly behind her computer thinking she is brilliant and we are all morons.
heheheheheheheheeheheehhehehheheheh
GSheridan,
Perhaps you can understand a simple graphic? Note the 7,000 gallons per minute of “Make-up Water” going to the cooling tower in Figure 3, page 3, (300 Kb PDF)http://www.netl.doe.gov/technologies/coalpower/ewr/pubs/IEP_Power_Plant_Water_R&D_Final_1.pdf
That’s about 11,300 acre-feet per year.
“And are you both reading AND math-challenged?Three new units @ 8,000 each = 24,000 acre-feet/year.
29,000 – 24,000 = 5,000 acre-feet/year for “OTHER USES”.
Oh but Cosmos, dont you know she personally HEARD the Sierra Club lie and say 100,000 acre feet. But she sure cant post a link to anywhere the Sierra Club actually says it. Or the news media reported they said it.
I think she’s hearing voices, dont you?
I mean, it is only SUNFLOWERS OWN FIGURES that back us up.
And her evidence to back up her bullshit? CCC
(Cue crickets chirping.)
Oh, cosmos, it couldn’t be becuase GS only picks what she WANTS to hear, and not what is actually relevant to the conversation, now could it?
And by the way, GS, two little points for you – 1) KFG has made it rather clear MANY times that, yes, she is a lesbian and 2) use of a term like “dyke” is morally offensive to me, and do it again and I will be happy to report you for it!! See, I can be a third grade tattle-tale too – I just choose to be more adult and not revert to discriminatory and demeaning name calling.
KFG, on behalf of all of us INTELLIGENT people out there, I would like to make my apologies for GS (although she should really do it herself)
So now if I say I am bored with her constant whining and lying, that I refuse to rehash this whole coal plant thing again, and that her flame is so lame it isnt even FUN to toy with her…
….I will be accused of “running away bawling”, or was it “Slinking away” or whatever?
Knock yerself out little girl. I’m tired of you repeating yourself faster and louder and thinking that makes your LIES somehow more believable?
Now, like JR said, “go away little girl”. Yer bothering the adults.
Come on now, Farm Grrl! I bet you can “slink” with the best of them if you want to….
Thanks Wendy. I know you have commented on my angry posts before. I submit this kinda reich wing bullshit as Exhibit A concerning WHY my posts have such sharp edges.
You know what they say about mules and two by fours, etc.
SO thank you for your kindness, but you have no need to appologize for little miss fossil fuels.
Or should I say “little condi wannabe”?
ksfarmgrrl,
Most people when challenged on an issue or fact will double-check it. GSheridan instead just keeps insisting that she’s right, and even brags about herself on other threads.Very odd, to be “polite” about it… ;)
Come on now, Farm Grrl! I bet you can “slink” with the best of them if you want to….
Hee hee hee hee hee hee CLARK!!!!
Well, I guess I should admit that my buddies do sometimes call me “the slinkster”….
heheheheheheheheehehehehehheheheheh
Although it is kinda hard to slink now at my age…
These days, I am more like the old bull who says “how about we WALK down the hill and get ‘em ALL!”
heee hee hee hee heeeeeee!
Hmmmm. the WE Blog server is up to it’s usual standards – the same post shows up three minutes apart…
Jeez, it wasn’t THAT funny.
Would anyone besides me liked to have seen Molly Ivins and gee sherri “debate” the iraq mess?
hee hee hee hee hee
Re: Molly Ivins debate. Why not still do it? She’s as sharp now as she ever was.
Since when is “dyke” a pejorative term?
Homer Arafat.
Ok – so I get it – Farmie’s a lesbo. Big deal. Perhaps that explains her constant rabid anger towards everyone who doesn’t agree with her – but it doesn’t mean she is due any special treatment. She isn’t.
As long as she continues to dish it out – I’ll dish it right back. She better grow a tougher skin if she wants to play in the big girl’s pond.
Maybe she feels “oppressed,” by the lack of approval from society, and lashes out. I couldn’t care less.
I don’t dislike her because she is a lesbian. She can quit wallowing in her victim mentality anytime she chooses.
For some reason she seems to define herself by her sexuality – you don’t hear the rest of us going around making jokes that “we’re straight.”
The only lesbians I know are not nearly as nasty. I’ll bet they would be ashamed to call her – one of their own.
Molly Ivins?
Good riddance.
WSCLARK: “Homer Arafat”??
Huh??
I heard Golf Nut described as a cross between Homer Simpson and Yasser Arafat – with bad breath.
Given that Nutz has played himself as being a superior being, he is obviously a posuer.
I just have this image of Golf Nut as Homer Arafat pounding away at the keyboard, clouding the monitor screen with his breath.
” She better grow a tougher skin if she wants to play in the big girl’s pond.”
That’s pretty funny. “The big girl’s pond”? hehehehehehe
Let’s see…. if it were “big girls’ pond” that would have one meaning.
But since it was “big girl’s pond” singular, I conclude she is confirming what was already suspected.
She thinks she owns this blog.
Some of the other bloggers wont appreciate that. Maybe JR will christen her “Blog Queen Bee” (PQB). It has a nice ring to it….
“Ok – so I get it – Farmie’s a lesbo. Big deal.”
Followed by, within the same post…
“For some reason she seems to define herself by her sexuality – you don’t hear the rest of us going around making jokes that ‘we’re straight.’”
Yep, she was so obvious about how she defines herself by her sexuality that you immediately knew what her orientation was and…wait…
Perfect example of the act of bullshitting, typing what comes to mind without regard to what you said…oh…four paragraphs before.
Idiot.
Farmie – you deserve all the harrassing you get. You sling more mud here than anyone else.
What’s the matter? You can dish it out, but you can’t take it?
KSagnostic – no, I didn’t know her sexual preference – but she kept making lesbian comment, after lesbian comment.
After we were all informed that she was, indeed, a lesbo – it became obvious she defines herself that way.
Idiot.
If they were consistent, Grrl, they couldn’t be CONservative anymore.
CONservative means shifting your ground to whatever argument is handy.
That’s the only way you can mask your true motivating and guiding principle–selfishness.
It’s pretty hard to argue something on the basis of “I make a lot of money for nothing and this insures I continue to do so.”
So you have to use whatever is at hand . . . Swiftboats, Gore invented the internet, tons and tons of weapons of mass destruction, etc.
What is a LESBIAN COMMENT?
Is that a comment that prefers women? A comment made by someone that prefers women?
Jeez, I prefer women. Can I make lesbian comments?
What is a LESBIAN COMMENT?
Is that a comment that prefers women? A comment made by someone that prefers women?
Jeez, I prefer women. Can I make lesbian comments?
So farmie – how many nics do you post under here?
At least five, I’m guessing.
okay, golfnut, since you insist on being deliberately obtuse – from webster’s dictionary:
“Main Entry: 2dykeVariant(s): also dike /’dIk/Function: nounEtymology: origin unknownoften disparaging : LESBIAN- dykey /’dI-kE/ adjective, often disparaging ”
Please make not of the “often disparaging” portion of the definition.
And, GS, I am still finding the “lesbo” references offensive. We prefer not to resort to deragatory name calling here (or at least I do) so, if you want to make reference to her sexuality, call her a lesbian… otherwise, the gloves are off, and you really don’t want to hear the names i can think of for you… And small wonder that she identifies herself by her sexuality – when people like you keep shoving it in her face…
I think you just made that comment, WS…twice.
;)
The WE Blog server is a little slow today in honor of George W Bush, who is a little slow himself.
Jesus Christ on a Corndog, Windy – you seem to find all kinds of words offensive.
I’m not the one who kept posting about lesbians – over and over and over – she did. Thread after thread.
Until you ‘outed’ her – I wasn’t sure if she was one. Just thought she had a hangup about lesbo’s.
If she keeps throwing it out there – folks are eventually going to respond. You wont find me treating her with kid gloves.
I’m not judging her on her preferences – I’m judging her on her actions here – and I find them wanting.
You, and all the nics farmie posts under here, can call me all the names you can think of.
I’m impervious to the childish digs.
Why is it YOU find about words that describe sexual preference taboo?
Do you get as ‘up in arms’ when someone insults intellect – by calling another a ‘retard,’ or an ‘idiot?’
Can you give us a list of your banned words so we can censure ourselves as it appears you think we should be censored?
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
I think more people have whined about your treatment of me than I have. I have not complained of how you treat me. I live in the “big girls’ pond”. I dont just visit from time to time.
I do complain because your broken record posts are boring, your lies are disproven by facts and yet you repeat them, and generally, the only whining I do is because you are so stupid, it hurts my ears to listen!
I see your point ksagnostic.
First she says I make “lesbian comments” (hehehe CLARK!) and then she claims she didnt know I was one. WTF?
Please post where I have asked for special treatment ’cause I am a lesbian. Otherwise, gee sherri…
Sit down and STFU!
Oh and just for the record, it is well known here that I have, in the entire history of this blog, only posted under one nic. It pisses me off to no end when people switch nics like somehow that changes the credibility of their post.
I also think nic switching is cowardly, and the nic stealing troll is the lowest of the low. I suppose he thinks he is ever so clever and smarter than the rest of us, but my opinion of nic switcher and nic stealers is that…
…they are low enough to walk UNDER a door wearing a top hat.
And I think you could do it wearing stilts, little miss fossil fuels.
Oh yeah, heheheh. You are ugly and your mother dresses you funny too!!
(sticking my tongue out here)
Oops! I guess that was another “lesbian comment”.
heheheeheheheheheheheheh!
GSheridan,
Have you figure out how evap cooling towers work yet?
Note the 7,000 gallons per minute of “Make-up Water” going to the cooling tower in Figure 3, page 3, (300 Kb PDF)http://www.netl.doe.gov/technologies/coalpower/ewr/pubs/IEP_Power_Plant_Water_R&D_Final_1.pdf
That’s about 11,300 acre-feet per year.
Maybe the righties here need their collective memories refreshed about what dead eye dick cheney said about Iraq in a tv interview in 2001?
“Appearing on ABC’s This Week, Cheney was asked why Operation Desert Storm had not gone “all the way” to remove Saddam Hussein from power. “I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire,” Cheney replied. “Once we got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power? What kind of government? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shia government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Baath party, would it be fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no sense at all.” Dick Cheney 2001
Charles Gonzales read that quote on the house floor today.
Let’s hear the righties defend THAT!
Dont confuse her with the facts cosmos.
Just like she said she never posted about bats instead of birds.
hehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheh
Farmie – YOU STFU.
Cosmos – the water towers have to be filled – I promise you. If you’re trying to say that they wont hold the entire amount of water – duh. Basins are built for that purpose. But that wont effect the water usage one iota.
Initially, they will use the full allotted amount of water to fill the reservoirs AND the water towers, then, as it is used SOME of it will be replaced – not all of it.
If that doesn’t finally answer your question – nothing will.
Gsheridan
I vote to put YOU in charge of Iraq!
Then you can beat your chest and declare victory and quit the field bellowing again and again how you’ve won.
Like you have on every thread you’ve posted.
Heh heh you think you can dish it out? You have NOTHING on the history of this forum. You have NO IDEA what you are getting into.
This blog’s gonna eat you up little girl.
Andrew – the ammunition they are using; armour piercing incendiary, are manufactured IN IRAN.
How much more evidence do you need?
JR – I never ‘declared’ victory – I just used the EXACT terminology that Farmie used in the past when talking about me.
You’ll find out, if you haven’t already discovered – that I treat folks in the identical manner they treat others.
If I recall correctly – you claimed I wouldn’t ‘last a week,’ when I first got here.
I already knew a lot of these posters from the Kansas Boards, others from SJ.
To date – I have seen nothing from anyone that I perceive as able to scare me away.
So, if that is your intent – you had better kick it into high gear.
This is a cake walk.
“Did you listen to the president’s news conference? Have you ever heard anybody in the administration suggest we should ‘attack Iran’?”
George W. Bush:”We’re having an honest debate in this country, and we should, about peace and how to achieve the peace. It should be clear to you now, though, that in my judgment you don’t contain Saddam Hussein. You don’t hope that therapy will somehow change his evil mind — that you deal with Saddam Hussein. I hope we can do this peacefully.” (Jan. 29, 2003)
http://www.dubyaspeak.com/repeatoffender.phtml?offense=therapy
He was saying this, when in retrospect, it was clearly not true.
We’re supposed to believe that lying SOS now?
So that’s what the G stands for!!! It’s General Sheridan!!!!
Or, to her close friends like us, General Sherri!!!
Cool!!!
Now I have this image of General Sherri, looking like Patton, but less masculine, riding in a Jeep, shooting the mules on the bridge and whipping her forces into a frenzy.
Onward!!!!
Does the good General carry pearl handled revolvers?
GS – let’s see – I only take offense to DERAGATORY comments. When you call someone a Dyke, i take offense, same as if you called someone a Ni**er – I do happen to find retard offensive, as I have a family member with down’s syndrome and I am aware of how deragotory that term actually is. Idiot, on the other hand, is a discription, so no, that doesn’t offend me… I don’t consider myself a prude, and I am aware that from time to time I may inappropriately use a term – HOWEVER, I would NEVER purposely call someone a deragatory name as you have done, and if someone told me I offended them by calling them by a name, I would apologize, as my intent is not to offend… And I don’t know how much more clear KFG needed to make it for you to know she was a lesbian without asking – since, actually, I have never been told point blank by her (until today)that she is a lesbian, but I AM smart enough to figure that one out on my own… Didn’t need any hand-holding there… Seems to me you are just getting all hot and bothered about this because you know you are WRONG!
GSheridan?
You mistake me.
I’ve NO DOUBT you will stick around.
My meaning when I said you would not last a week was that within a week no one would take you seriously. You’d reduce yourself to comedy material. Become a pinata.
I was right.
Rmember when Cosmos busted your Wyoming? petition link?
Like that.
Hey rant away. Get that kook Rosell and work out who gets to be the straight man!
Or maybe you he Angry ben and goofnut can form a babbleshop quartet!
Fair enough, Wendy.
If ksfarmgrrl says she was offended by my calling her a dyke, as you suggest, then I’ll apologize to her.
Farmie – did that hurt your feelings?
“…the ammunition they are using; armour piercing incendiary, are manufactured IN IRAN.”
Actually there is no rocket science involved in making shaped charges. The shaped charge was invented by a Navy officer in 1888. They could easily be made in a garage in Baghdad. This link describes the evolution of IEDs in Iraq.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/051010-shaped-bombs.htm
JR – nice try.
I know this is a board of librats – and I also know they will lie, cheat, and steal to try and cover their asses.
I’m a little interested in how you keep jumping to farmie’s defense. Is she really THAT weak?
You can claim until you are blue in the face that I was proven wrong – but we both know that’s not the case.
It aggravates you – and the other librats.
Oh well, learn to deal with it.
Cosmos pointed out that the entire petition was not PhD’s in Science.
That didn’t mean that a number of them….still were.
You get stuck on tiny details and forget the big picture.
WAH! WAH! WAH!
CONSLUT GS compalins because some bloggers here are not fellow right wingnuts. Too bad GS.
Oh Christ, General Sherri, if they had pictures of you with the smoking gun in your hand you would still claim your innocence.
“the ammunition they are using; armour piercing incendiary, are manufactured IN IRAN.”
Any proof? Are thsoe the ones pictured with good English labels?
Truth be told, “comedy material” loosely translates in WE blog vocabulary as the 3 or 4 disenting voices to the dozen or so hard line socialists who frequent here.Truth be told, the WE blog is not representive of Kansas general populus, those in power in this fictional Kansas community enjoy wielding their power as it is the only place in which they have it locally.
dubyaspeak.com Steven? Do you have to go to that left-wing nitwit site to get crap to support your views on Bush?
What wasn’t true about his quote?
“We’re having an honest debate in this country, and we should, about peace and how to achieve the peace.”
Now I really don’t believe this was true. I don’t think the democrats are having an honest debate. I think they will say what ever they think will further their political agenda. I do think the president is trying to have an honest debate. He was just trying to be nice.
“It should be clear to you now, though, that in my judgment you don’t contain Saddam Hussein.”
What’s dishonest about this statement? Regime change in Iraq was US policy ever since Clinton implemented it in 1998.
“You don’t hope that therapy will somehow change his evil mind — that you deal with Saddam Hussein.”
What’s wrong with this statement? Merely the president’s way of simplifying his position.
” I hope we can do this peacefully.”
I truly believe he did. Too bad Saddam Husein thought he had the UN Security Council bought off with his Oil for Food dollars.
Call the president a liar and his supporters stupid, it’s easier than honest debate.
Hank
Hank—–
Ben – this articles claims they were made in Iran:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran313.xml
BTW – was the ’slut’ comment truly necessary?
Or was it someone posting under your nic?
“What’s dishonest about this statement? Regime change in Iraq was US policy ever since Clinton implemented it in 1998.”
Jesus, Hank, for the ninety second time, when Clinton advocated regime change in Iraq in 1998, Saddam had kicked out the inspectors, so there was reason to believe that he was up to something.
When Bush attacked Iraq in March of 2003, the Inspectors had to leave Iraq ahead of the bombing. They were well on their way to PROVING that Saddam had no WMD or a program to develop the same.
Over and over and over and over again.
Those are rifles made in Austria; the article says so. The article then CLAIMS they were trans-shipped to Iraq. You had claimed armor piercing shells made in Iran.
” know this is a board of librats – and I also know they will lie, cheat, and steal to try and cover their asses.”
If you don’t like being called names don’t call others names. My comment was a DIRECT response to that.
I’ll take the word of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
U.S. general: No evidence Iran is arming Iraqis
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17129144/
GSheridan?
You mistake me.
I’ve NO DOUBT you will stick around.
My meaning when I said you would not last a week was that within a week no one would take you seriously. You’d reduce yourself to comedy material. Become a pinata.
I was right.
Rmember when Cosmos busted your Wyoming? petition link?
Like that.
Hey rant away. Get that kook Rosell and work out who gets to be the straight man!
Or maybe you he Angry ben and goofnut can form a babbleshop quartet!
Check your peanut butter folks, I have one of the recalled jars!
GSheridan,
“Initially, they will use the full allotted amount of water to fill the reservoirs AND the water towers, then, as it is used SOME of it will be replaced – not all of it.”
So NOW you’re claiming that 29,000 acre-feet (that’s 10 acres square by over 1/2 MILE HIGH!) will be used to “initially fill” RESERVOIRS AND the water towers?
You think they will build HUGE (or very DEEP) basins/reservoirs, to hold more than a one year supply on the surface?
What’s the purpose of the HUGE surface reservoirs? THEIR site says they use a “groundwater supply”.http://www.holcombstation.coop/Environmental/water.cfm
And when they start producing electricity, they start using the other 24,000 acre-feet of aquifer water each YEAR?That’s 10 acres square by about 0.45 MILE high of water per year, for 40+ years.
Oops
Oh well that was worth saying twice.
GSheridan?
Maybe you can answer this question here. YOU know, since you didn’t on the power plant thread?
Demonstrate the need for construction of another power plant.
Can anyone help poor Gsheri out? Anybody got a link to power outages or shortages?
Oh and Gsheridan?I don’t think you’ve got any ground to stand on objecting to “slut” with the vocabulary you yourself throw around.
p-mom – what brand?
I have a couple of jars too Mom. Bad news, they are almost gone! Good news is, Sam and Ella didn’t show up.
Peter Pan, Ben.
pmom…we got one too. Now I have to go check all the food bags at the church too!
Ben
Peter Pan. and Wal-Mart brands, maybe more. Look on the lid for a number starting with 2111.
MSNBC artilce about contaminated peanut butter with source info….
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17155561/
Thanks – I’ll have to check. Peanut butter is probably my primary nutrient.
Ours has been eaten out of too, and so far, none of those kind of symptoms.
Thank goodness, but still not taking any chances and pitching it.
Hank:
“What wasn’t true about his quote?”
Bush:”We’re having an honest debate in this country, and we should, about peace and how to achieve the peace.”
There was no debate that was going to effect the outcome of the decision. The fix was in. We were going to Iraq.
Don’t like the site? I don’t especially, but those are all true quotes of Bush.
Hank:”Call the president a liar and his supporters stupid, it’s easier than honest debate.”
Please, Hank. We both know that you couldn’t recognize “honest debate” if it slapped you in the face.
“First thing to say about the president’s decision to invade Iraq is, we will not know for 100 years what really happened. You have to wait for all historical archives to be opened up. Even then, you may not completely know, because this is not a president who writes things down himself. What was the mix of his thoughts, we don’t know.
“It is clear that, even before 9/11, President Bush wanted Saddam Hussein out of power. President Clinton wanted Saddam Hussein out of power. But President Bush wanted it more, and in a more aggressive form. He said several times during the presidential campaign that he wanted Saddam Hussein out of power. He allied himself with people who thought that his father had made a mistake in not sending American troops during the first Gulf war onto Baghdad to take out Saddam Hussein.
“He was highly aware of Saddam Hussein’s fairly feeble and unsuccessful assassination attempt in 1993 on his father, when his father was visiting the Persian Gulf region, and he’s referred to it repeatedly. So there’s a bit of an element of revenge here. There’s an element of just moral outrage over Saddam Hussein, an evil man, being in power.”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/bush/war.html
Yes, I know it is a PBS site – go ahead and attack it – part of that “honest debate” you have polished to a fine art.
Freaking committees, this is why the committees and the House seat are so important. Twice the legislation didn’t pass out of committee, so now, the House leader sends it to the most conservative committee and of course it passed out of that committee. You know it’s a bad law if you have to find the hardest right committee to get it passed on.
Luckily, it will never pass the Senate.
Chelsea Brook’s family is being used by the religious right who wants this so bad, they’ve introduced it year after year titled the Unborn Victim of Violence Act (UVVA), but until Chelsea was killed, there were no supporters because of the obvious implications for abortion. Assigning personhood to a fetus is exactly what the antis want.
The much better law is the one that makes crimes against pregnant women more serious. But I promise you the religious right will fight against that one.
Andrew – the ammunition they are using; armour piercing incendiary, are manufactured IN IRAN.
How much more evidence do you need?Posted by: GSheridan | February 15, 2007 at 03:56 PM
That they came from Iran and not a weapons dealer with Iranian inventory.
For a start.
Here’s yer clue, though: if you hear W Bush say X, believe Y.
Truth be told, excellent link to pbs.I don’t believe Woodward says anything that is not true. It’s not an uncomplimentary view of the Commander in Chief, truth be told, to his supporters and right thinking people throughout the world.He does not accuse the President of being an idiot, liar or mental retard (Imus in the Morning).Truth be told, he paints the picture of a decision maker secure in his decisions and convictions. Truth be told, this is what I voted for.Obviously many of you prefer a leader that will wait for public opinion polls to make a decision. Truth be told, that is an unstable way to run a Government. Leaders are elected to lead. Truth be told, all get their jolly’s on power. Otherwise the strain of the positions certainly are not worth the meager salary (comparably).
Truth be told, it is true that Bush is true to his convictions. However, truth be told, his convictions are wrong. Truth be told, we would be better off with a leader who would wait, not for polls, but for reliable information. Truth be told, a government run on realible information is more stable than a government run on lies masquerading as truth.
G. even the president of Pakistan admits to there being several in his own administration that are actively funding, supplying and supporting the Talban and Al-Qaeda. But because these people have their own power base. He can not openly stop them else he could lost control and be overthrown. Iran does have several opposing element within the Government. Even within the President’s own party, like here in the U.S. ( Bush is a R.i.n.o. Bush is a R.i.n.o!).
Iran does support the Shiites in Iraq, they want them to gain control in the Civil war. And as has been pointed out, the Sunni have those that support them for the same reasons. But the term “Insurgency” is much broader then the Shiites. The insurgency is a fellowship of many differing elements there. And have one thing in common, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.
It is the stated goal of the Americans to make Iraq a equal partnership. This means that they will not allow either side to win. Bin Laden who is a Sunni called for all Sunni to work with the Shiites, Kurds, Saddam loyalists and everyone to drive the invaders out. All groups in Iraq have the common goal of stopping the Americans from accomplishing the goal of making Iraq a partnership. They all have something to lose if that happens, so they are all cooperating with each other at least to a limited amount. The insurgency as we are calling them now, may only have a central planning group that coordinates some operations. But this too is a limited partnership until the Americans leave. Which is the goal of all those in the insurgency, once that happens then they will be free to fight it out.
Yes because the Shiites are the majority in Iraq, they may very well be the largest of the groups in the insurgency. But by no means does that make them the controlling factor in all matters. Nor does it make Iran the controlling factor either. Iran does want to be in on the outcome they have quite a bit at stake.It would be in their best interests to have a Shiite neighbor instead of a Sunni neighbor.
“Please, Hank. We both know that you couldn’t recognize “honest debate” if it slapped you in the face.”
I got to thinking about this comment Steven and I’ve come to the conclusion that you might be right.
I can’t remember when I’ve seen one from the lefties on this BLOG!
I still love ya,
Hank
GSheridan,
“Cosmos pointed out that the entire petition was not PhD’s in Science.
That didn’t mean that a number of them….still were.
You get stuck on tiny details and forget the big picture.”
You mean “tiny details”, like Scientific American’s survey of 30 of the 1,400 who claimed a PhD in climate science? How OISM copied NAS’s format to con people? The phrase that humans would cause “cause catastrophic heating”? Details at,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISM_Petition
Anyone who wants to have a great ROFL’ing experience re GSheridan’s bogus “Oregon Petition” should read http://www.desmogblog.com/node/1067
And note the 1989 Philip Morris memo stating that Seitz was: “quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice.” Nine years later, Seitz wrote the cover letter of the Oregon Petition.
Anyone else notice, that my man, Paul Morrison, is against big corps taking money from the poorest of the poor?
Oh well,http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/editorial/16691123.htm
My man is taking the high road. Sorry that pisses you off, you Repubs.
We’ll deal with you assholes, next time…
JR – I didn’t object to the word, “slut,” but I didn’t think Ben was the sort who would say that. Now I know he is. No biggie.
Cosmos – I hope you finally understand the matter with the water. It’s like pouring the info into your head – and having it run right out your mouth and ears before you retain any of it. lol
Ben, the article states the guns were shipped to IRAN, not Iraq. A reading comprehension class might help you.
Steven, you’re NOT paying attention. The first link was to the article that stated the guns came FROM Iran, since they were purchased by them FROM Austria within 45 days of the killing.
The second link is to the article that says the ammo used was from IRAN. I know it’s tough for you to keep straight – so here is the last link again.
[quote]The rifle can pierce all body armour from up to a mile and penetrate armoured Humvee troop carriers.
It is highly accurate and fires a round called an armour piercing incendiary, a bullet that the Iranians manufacture.[endquote]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran13.xml
“[quote]The rifle can pierce all body armour from up to a mile and penetrate armoured Humvee troop carriers.”
Yet it’s okay that our military uses white phospherous, DU, and other *questionable* things on the general populace.
Riiiiiiight.
Sorry GSheridan,You are so shrill and stupid, it is very hard to take you seriously. Go to bed…