The evidence presented over the weekend in Baghdad backed up the Bush administration’s recent assertions that Iran is supplying Shiite groups in Iraq with bomb materials and other support. Iranian officials, of course, called it “all lies.” It’s hard not to worry about what’s next, given the escalating rhetoric about Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Newsweek’s cover story suggests a “hidden war” between Iran and the United States already has begun: And “with Americans and Iranians jousting on the chaotic battleground of Iraq, the chances of a small incident’s spiraling into a crisis are higher than they’ve been in years.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
-
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in. -
Contact us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Kandisue on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- writerdog on Palin’s record a ‘mixed bag’
- lindainks55 on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- Kandisue on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- cosmos_originally on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- lindainks55 on Open thread 9/6
- bjb on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- BlueJay on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- Mr_Kia on The GOP’s white-bread convention
- okobserver on The GOP’s white-bread convention
47 Comments
Ooops, should have posted this here originally.
The Bush regime has already been caught lying to the American public in order to justify attacking Iran.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YXKIEPPGSTE2FQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/11/wiran511.xml
The supposed Iranian bomb is using western text, not the Farsi that the Iranians use. Oh well, American military intelligence at work again. I also wonder how they figured exactly how many Americans were killed with Iranian weapons. Probably some BS number they put in their heads. It’s no surprise the people presenting this “intelligence” refused to give their names or be recorded because they don’t want to be connected to the blatent lies they were ordered by the Bush regime to tell. They know what happened to patsy Colin Powell and his lies about WMD in Iraq.
So, will the press do their job this time and report the facts or just repeat whatever the Bush administration gives them?
Doug - what did you think of Hillary’s comments when Iran first started its current ‘nuke’ talk, specifically about how we could not allow them to succeed and how we should not rule out the military?
Think she meant it?
President Bush is surrounded by windmills and is looking for another one to joust with. I’m a longtime moderate Republican and even I agree its time for him to take a long vacation.
GSheridan,
Stop playing your game. Hilary isn’t president: Dick Cheney is.
As Doug says, the ‘intelligence’ proving Iran’s meddling is so airtight that the supposed munitions are inscribed in English rather than Farsi, and used the wrong calendar to date the weapons.
The whole thing has an unmistakable ‘dog ate my homework’ quality to it. When the ’senior Administration officials’ giving the briefing do so anonymously, and won’t take questions, rational people whose brains haven’t been eaten by the Borg realize that the accusations are worthless.
This evidence is SO convincing that General Peter Pace, head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, won’t sign off on it.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/special_packages/iraq/16683913.htm
But even if these lies ARE true, what does THAT mean? Do we bomb Iran because munitions that Iran is shipping to Shia in Iraq are finding their way into the black market and are being turned into IED’s that are then used against U.S. soldiers? And what does this get us, precisely? If the idea is to go after those who are targeting U.S. soldiers, then the obvious place to start is with the Saudi funding of the Sunni insurgency.
This is Downing Memos Part Deux: it’s the fixing of intelligence in support of predetermined policy goals. Cheney the fifth-grader wants Iran. Unless Congress steps in and starts acting like adults, Cheney will get his wish. And the rest of us will have to live with the consequences.
JWink,
Agreed, except that Bush is merely Sancho Panza: it is Dick Cheney who is Don Quixote. Without the romantic hero parts, however.
Thank you, I had not even noticed the fact that the munitions where in English! Interesting! It was these kind of things that first made me question the true intent of Bush&Co. I am another Republican that has a brain and not just reading comprehension.
Yeah, I shoulda posted this here too:”FYI for the naive’.
The USA sells weapons and munitions world-wide.All over the middle-east, Pakistan, and especially China.We have zero control over these once they leave the states.”
I was naive’ until I went to work at the bomb factory.One huge display case dedicated to the munitions built for, and sold to China. Complete with nice letters and cerificate of appreciation.China has the best anti-tank rounds that money can buy. Anybody wanna invade North Korea to see just how effective our weapons are against our own defenses?
The U.A.E. is a huge supplier of munitions in the middle east, as well as anywhere else with money.They probably use english as a universal language for foreign markets.
Hi WD; how is Mrs. WD?
This whole Iran stody gives me a very strong feeling of ‘deja vu all over again’. Curveball. Chalabi. INC claims about WMDs and Saddam/alQuada link. Now this - FROM THE SAME PEOPLE!
It seems likely that these munitions come from ‘normal’ free-enterprise capitalist sources - the black market.
So, here’s my question: does the fact that the munitions are of Iranian origin (if true), directly implicate the Iranian government without more? There is a black market in arms and munitions; why should Iran be any different?
What is truly freaking sad is that I have to sit here and QUESTION who is telling me the damn truth, the president of my country or IRAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that right there isn’t reason enough for getting that jerk out of office, I don’t know what is.
“OUT OF OFFICE! NOW!”
::repeat ad nauseum::
Ben Huie,
Indeed: deja vu all over again.
And somebody please tell me how the possibility that Iran is smuggling munitions into Iraq, even if true, would justify a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s putative nuclear weapons program?
Aesop had it right: “any excuse will serve a tyrant.”
Have a point to make Golf or just stirring the pot this frigid morning?
Lookit’ that: KSGolfnut inadvertently talking sense.
Have you rededicated yourself to your ‘choice’ of heterosexuality yet today, KSGolfnut?
“Building the evidence”
Looks to me more like stacking the deck. And who has the ace up his sleeve?
CF,”He who has little to say - often repeats it.”
PMom,The point is obvious: You don’t like Bush. You want him out of office. Now. You’ve made that clear.
Why aren’t your heroes taking the steps to do just that?
hee hee hee hee CF
Do you even wonder if nutz’s “choice” to be a straight man has inadvertantly resulted in some women switch hitting and now batting for MY team?
heheheheheheheheeheheheheheheheh
Maybe that is why he chases all those young women. Keep it up nutz. My team loves all the players you send over!!!!!
This is a great essay that exposes not only bushco, but “wobbly kneed democrats”.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103×262864
My favorite part:
“WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
The government’s (and mass-media’s) short version is that Bush’s “surge” probably won’t work, but as a last-ditch effort it’s worth trying.
The missing piece: Even if by some stroke of luck, Bush’s escalation of the war were to start succeeding in tamping down the sectarian violence in Baghdad, there is no concomitant political plan in place, not even in the idea stages.
It’s all ad hoc illusioning, a faith-based initiative hoping that somehow, some stability will emerge in Iraq out of the war-magician’s hat.
Other than hoping and praying that the Sunnis and Shias and Kurds will put down their arms and forget their many generations and centuries of distrust and hatred — and their greed for the oil-money and reconstruction cash-cow — there is no new initiative on the political front in Iraq.
There is indeed a “political plan” of sorts associated with the war’s escalation — but it has nothing to do with what’s happening on the ground in Iraq.
Rather, the “surge” is designed to save Bush and Cheney and Gates and Rice and the rest of the crew down there in the White House Bunker from acute embarrassment, and political/legal fallout as the situation gets more and more disastrous in Iraq.
Their hope is to stalemate the war until after the 2008 election.”
Seems General Pace (CJCS) has some similar thoughts as do I; says there’s no evidence that Iran is arming Iraqi insurgents. Wonder if he cleared this with his boss?
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2870944
I am going to break with my usual trend, or should I say Bush broke with his (by having a diplomatic success):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/13/AR2007021300130.html
VT,
In-frickin’-deed. This is a BIG deal.
Prediction: General Pace will soon announce that he’s stepping down in order “to spend more time with my family.”
That’s one brave son-of-a-bitch, standing up to Cheney that way. This is a strong message from the military that they want NO part of Iran. The Congress should embrace the political cover General Pace is offering, and cut this potential disaster off at the legs.
one (success) in 6 years probably wouldn’t have kept him on the first team of the Astros (or which ever team he was a minor owner of), though…
CF, IIRC, General Pace’s tenure as CJCS is up soon, and he was already headed for retirement. Thus, the freedom to speak his mind?
I think that is just about the right number of successes for the Rangers while he owned them.
He only sold them to run for office.
Just another hobby for this preznit. Like “cutting brush” heheheh.
Wonder what his next hobby will be? I hope it will be making license plates…
No, FrmGirl, I hear Scooter has that “hobby” already lined up. George already has his gig lined up: A multi-million bonus to color his memoirs.
But he did sell his interest in the Rangers for more money than his grandkids can ever spend, so that’s a pretty good hobby, in my book.
So, these new weapons were made in Iran? And we know this how? Of course! They are being brought to us by the same people who told us there absolutely were WMD’s in Iraq, and brought out pictures to prove it! Sorry, Bushllit, but you’ve already blown your credibility with the American people. Tell us another one.
“Just months after testing a nuclear bomb, North Korea agreed to shut down its main nuclear reactor and dismantle its atomic weapons program…”
Is this the thread where you people line up to praise this administration for their good work? Or is that another one?
I wondered if anyone else would catch that the “Iranian smuggled munitions” were labeled in English.
Where IS the “liberal” media on that one?My guess is we will not put boots on the ground in Iran.
bush’s handlers will bet that simple bombing will bring down the government in Iran.
They will be wrong. As an exterior attack always does, an attack will solidify the Iranians with their government.
And after the attack?
Here in America and all over the world? ANYTHING goes.
Mostly likely, we can thank the Chinese and Janpanese for the diplomatic break through. Basically N Korea was bought off with a million tons of heavy fuel oil.
It remains to be seen if N Korea lives up to the agreement.
But it seems to me that some posters on this blog we criticizing President Clinton for negotiating with N Korea.
Yeah, I am pretty sure that there were some people questioning Bill intelligence and morals for negotiating.
WSClark,
Agreed. We’re seeing the same thing.
fleeeeeeeeeeetwoooooooooooooooood,
I’m cool with Bush’s deal, though why it took us so long is a question only Bush can answer. It’s just icing on the cake that John Bolton hates it and strongly urges Bush not to accept it.
“The agreement drew strong criticism from John Bolton, a former United States ambassador to the United Nations, who urged President Bush to reject it.
“I am very disturbed by this deal,” Mr. Bolton told CNN. “It sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: ‘If we hold out long enough, wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded,’ in this case with massive shipments of heavy fuel oil for doing only partially what needs to be done.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/13/world/asia/13cnd-korea.html?hp&ex=1171429200&en=5f1b67d47eb49b34&ei=5094&partner=homepage
If signing the agreement means that the “Administration” has finally let drop its tired insistence that it not ‘punish bad behavior’ and instead do nothing, then I’m all for it. It means they’ve come around to MY way of thinking.
Here are the terms of the proposed disarmament deal:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Koreas-Nuclear-Key-Points.html
“The following are key points of an agreement reached Tuesday on steps for North Korea to end its nuclear weapons development:
– Within 60 days, the North must shut down and seal its main nuclear facilities at Yongbyon, north of the capital Pyongyang. International inspectors should be allowed to verify the process. For the initial steps, North Korea will get energy, food and other aid worth 50,000 tons of heavy fuel oil.
– The United States will begin bilateral talks with North Korea to normalize their relations and will begin the processes of removing North Korea from its designation as a terror-sponsoring state and also ending U.S. trade sanctions, but no deadline was set.
– Japan will begin bilateral talks with North Korea to normalize their relations.
– After 60 days, foreign ministers of all the countries will meet to confirm the implementation of the agreement and talk about security cooperation in northeast Asia. Some countries will hold a separate forum on negotiations for a permanent peace settlement to replace the 1953 cease-fire that ended the Korean War.
– The North must provide a complete list of its nuclear programs and disable all existing nuclear facilities. In return, the North will get aid in corresponding steps worth 950,000 tons of heavy fuel oil — details of which will be addressed in later working group discussions.
– Five working groups will be created: denuclearization, U.S.-North Korea relations, Japan-North Korea relations, economic cooperation and on a peace and security mechanism in northeast Asia.
– The six-nation talks will meet again March 19.”
What CF finds interesting is that the U.S. and North Korea will now restart bilaterial talks. Looks to me like North Korea got everything it wanted. I’d say they played this thing REAL smart.
Not that I’m complaining; I actually endorse international agencies like the UN and IAEA. How does it sit with YOU, fleeeeeeetwoooood, this decision to internationalize the enforcement regime, and to tie the U.S. into a multilateral agreement?
I’m also curious how the unnamed sources determined that it was the Iranian government who ordered the munitions to support the Sunni insurgents. It seems odd that the Iranians would want to kill their fellow Shiites but I’m sure the evidence is sitting right next to Saddam’s mobile weapons labs (which provided helium for weather balloons).
And why must they have come from Iran? Couldn’t Pakistan have manufactured these items? Aren’t more Americans killed by U.S. weapons? Shouldn’t we be invading America or at least blaming those responsible for not giving a rat’s ass for the loss of millions of dollars in weapons provided to the insurgents that we train to kill us? 170 is a drop in the bucket to the over 3,000 dead already, and passed on the bad intelligence there’s no reason to invade a third country especially when New Orleans still sits in ruin.
WSC: I saw that last night, also. We have people (back east particularly)where heating oil is the primary source of home heating, suffering a 100 year winter, barely able to eat because of their heating costs, and we are giving a million tons of heavy fuel oil to North Korea. It seems we don’t even go through the pretext that we’re selling it to them anymore, because they never pay for it anyway. Wouldn’t it actually be in our best interests if, say 35 or 40 million of them froze or starved to death this winter? It may not be PC, or humanitarian … but how soon would Kim Jung Il and his thugs rush to our aid, if the situation was reversed? We can’t afford this “blind largess” any longer.
Right, CF. It seems to me that this price is going to be much lower in the long run and no one will die.
The war mongering Bolton can yell all he wants, but diplomacy can, and does, work. It worked with the Soviets it has apparently worked with N Korea.
VT: Two words: MARIE LAVEAUX !
Apparently I’m not alone in seeing the lack of evidence. The Joint Chief’s chairman sees none either:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/16683913.htm
Given the history of Iran trying to achieve peace with the U.S. and given the Bush regime’s history of lying the only ones buying the lies about this intelligence are just those who want to expand America’s war against Islam. But what is known is that Saudi Arabia is funding the Sunnis who are responsible for numerous attacks against America, including one in 2001 that killed 3,000 civilians.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-12-08-saudis-sunnis_x.htm
Is that moron, President Cheney, really going to do this?
Some senior administration officials still relish the notion of a direct confrontation. One ambassador in Washington said he was taken aback when John Hannah, Vice President Cheney’s national security adviser, said during a recent meeting that the administration considers 2007 “the year of Iran” and indicated that a U.S. attack was a real possibility. Hannah declined to be interviewed for this article.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/hannah-iran/
Does this administration have no shame?
WSC….Objection!Rhetorical question.
The headline of this post is a little odd. One down? When I use the phrase “One down, one to go,” or variants thereof such as the one in the headline for this post, I’m marking a success or completion of a task and reorienting my attention to the next task to be completed. By any measure the Bush adminstration’s Iraq folly is neither complete nor successful.
So I guess I’ll take the title of this post as sarcasm, unintentional or not.
Condor…….Objection!Grandiloquent!
Not really, I was just dying to use the word grandiloquent.
Condor, perhaps it was the “down” part. And bushco DID say the mission accomplished was several years ago, so wrecking iran like they wrecked iraq would be logical.
Thank goodness they dont have to wreck north korea to get the trifecta. Fortunately, nk can be bought. They are oil USERS not oil OWNERS.
See the difference?
Of course, it could be, given both the words and actions of bushco, that we are buying off nk because they are closer to having nuke capability than iran ever will be. Or iraq ever was.
Remember, those who have nukes get treated very differently by bushco than those who are just developing them.
The lesson? Get ‘em while ya can. It is your only protection against the rogue nation led by bushco.
It seems we’ve had enough wars tolast for several centuries. Wars are much too painful, both emotionally and economically. We need to avert this one. How about consensus among European and Iran’s affiliated Nations in order to enable more leverage for Sanctions.
When Bush was first elected 6 years ago, I thought he was a joke. Laughingly, I would say “at least I didn’t vote for him”. Since then, I have realized it is no joke. I truly wish I knew how to get the word out to everyone that he has become dangerous, without sounding like the “liberal democrat” that I am. I was willing to wait again for a good President, but I’m scared that while we wait, Bush is going to get us in so deep that we will not be able to climb out. History has shown that powers that overextend themselves fall, i.e. Romans, British, Nazi Germany, and he is definitely overextending the United States power. We will be put in check by the rest of the world, and I’m afraid it will be before we can get a President in there that can fix this mess.
ksfg, it has always seemed to me that obtaining nuclear weapons makes a difference in the international stage, regardless of which party is in power in the “already gottem” world. Especially if the leader of the country which ‘just gottem’ is viewed as a bit unstable…
“Axis of Evil” Bush, Cheney, and Rice.
Oh my God!! I agree with Ed!!! I have to go wash my brain!!!!