It’s good that the United States and North Korea have tentatively agreed on a deal under which Pyongyang would end its nuclear weapons program in exchange for energy aid.
In essence, it seems similar to the 1994 bargain struck by President Clinton to trade fuel aid for a North Korean nuclear ban. Conservatives, including those in the Bush administration, love to hate that deal. But if this one holds up, how is it any different?
It confirms the wisdom of at least trying diplomacy with our enemies. Why not talk to Iran?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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39 Comments
Randy,
That the same deal that Clinton did where nuclear technology was given to them?
Jeez, SOB, you proved Scofield’s point with the very FIRST post.
Congratulations!!!
SOB,
Yeah, not talking to Iran is working out so great and all.
Can Wingnuts EVER make a point on any subject without knee-jerking back to Clinton?
I proved his point? What? You saying that giving nuclear technology to NK was a good idea? Really?
CF, I didn’t bring up Clinton. Randy did.
Talk with Iran? Given our Fearless Leader’s way with words, we’d be at war with them in minutes!
North Korea had nuclear tech long before Clinton became president. James Baker, Bush 41’s Secretary of State admited that they were aware of N Korea’s nuclear program in 1989.
The Agreed Framework of 1994 provided two LIGHT water nuclear power plants to N Korea. The power plants cannot be used to develop nuclear weapons.
Perhaps if the Republicans had been less interested in Monica and more interested in gettting the people’s work done, Clinton could have addressed the issue when N Korea violated the terms of the agreement in 1998 when they fired an unarmed missile over Japan, causing Japan to pull out of the Agreed Framework agreement.
Don’t the facts get in the way of a good story, SOB.
Got it. Giving away nuclear technology to the likes of NK is fine.
“The power plants cannot be used to develop nuclear weapons.”
Read much, SOB?
By the way, SOB, N Korean was to be give the reactors, paid for mostly by Japan. Japan pulled out of the agreement after the missile incident of 1998. The reactors were never built.
And apparently you missed the part where Baker said that the GHWB administration KNEW of the N Korean nuclear program in 1989.
But, don’t let those facts get in the way.
You infer too much. Whatever the nuclear technology, making a deal where North Korea would get that technology is a bad idea.
“And apparently you missed the part where Baker said that the GHWB administration KNEW of the N Korean nuclear program in 1989.”
Christ, SOB, North Korea already HAD nuclear technology in 1989.
And India signed on to non-proliferation too.You see where that got them.It got them some sweet trade deals to further our huge worldwide trade imbalance.Ya’ see, what we really gotta do is get them tooled up to make all the cheap plastic crap for christmas, that way China will be free to move on to higher technology stuff.Oh yeah, they need KFC, Burger King and Wal-Mart too.
Clark, I see your position. You are pro-giving nuclear technology to North Korea. I’m against it.
Matters not what they had already.
Truth be told, the United States will enter talks with Iran as soon as Iran pulls back from it’s state intention to destroy Israel.
Negotiating with terrorists, truth be told, is not unlike arguing here on WE blog or running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded.
“Truth be told, the United States will enter talks with Iran as soon as Iran pulls back from it’s state intention to destroy Israel.”
If that is Iran’s position regarding Israel – let Israel deal with it.
Christ, we have given Israel enough military and economic aid over the last forty years. Let them stand up for themselves.
Question; Do any of you WE bloggers disagree with the longstanding US policy to not negotiate with terrorists?
Well, let’s see, Truthiness.
Of the nineteen terrorists that were involved in the 9/11 attack, fifteen were from Saudi Arabi.
Interestingly enough, none of the hijackers were from Iraq or Iran.
So, yes, I agree that we should not negotiate with Saudi Arabia. We should not have any diplomatic ties with regimes that support terrorism.
WSClark,The Saudi Arabian comment is beneath you.You are smart enough to understand that the actions of Tim McVeigh do not mean that all Americans or that all Army Vets are terrorists.Likewise, you understand that, while the Saudis have not been as helpful as we would like, allowing the hate filled Madrasas that Hillary doesnt like, for instance, the Saudis would have arrested any of the 9-11 terrorists if given the chance.
By the way, there is a difference, a huge difference, in this Korea deal.Japan and China!Bush refused to deal with N. Korea without the involvement of Japan and China.China cut off oil to NK after the Nuke Test.Japan changed the name of its military and began preparing for anti-missle defense.In the Orient, “saving face” is everything.NK made China lose face. China wants economic expansion and NK is a problem for them.
The bank would not value my car loan very much if the government said I didnt have to pay it and could keep my car. Even if the rates and amounts stayed the same, it would be worthless without enforcement.
Likewise, even though the Korea “deal” may look the same, in this case, Japan and China will enforce the deal!
“Trust but verify” brought down the Berlin Wall. Remember libs, you thought Reagan was wrong to walk out in Iceland talks with the Evil Empire!
“Trust but verify” brought down the Berlin Wall. Remember libs, you thought Reagan was wrong to walk out in Iceland talks with the Evil Empire!”
Nonsense, Paul. The Soviet Union collapsed under it’s own weight. A communist state cannot survive once the people have a taste of freedom. The USSR was doomed once Gorbie opened the door to the Western world.
Reagan just happened to be driving the car when the road opened up to all travellers.
“And apparently you missed the part where Baker said that the GHWB administration KNEW of the N Korean nuclear program in 1989.”
Christ, SOB, North Korea already HAD nuclear technology in 1989.
Alright, lets get back to SOB’s point. So we knew back in 89, WHY did Billary and Jimma (worst president ever) make a deal with them in 94?
You all always want to make the point that Bush knew about Al Quida at least a month before 9-11 and did nothing.So now we got Billary who knew about NK’s nukes for 5 years and did nothing but make a deal with them. Brilliant
The point was, Genie, that Clinton agreed to give N Korea two LW Reactors – he did NOT agree to give them technology that was new to them – N Korea already HAD the tech.
Why do you condemn a Democrat but you are just fine with the first Bush admin KNOWING that n Korea had nuke tech and did nothing.
Just a bit of hypocrisy, Genie?
Hypocrisy, see post above.
Besides all Bush elder did was pass along a problem for the next guy. (see Clinton WTC 93, Khobar Towers, 2 Embassies, USS Cole)
So Billary KNEW about the nukes and his brilliant idea was to give NK more technology (notice I didn’t say nuke technology but LW reactor is still technology)and aid out the wazoo.Must have been because he gave all the real technology to the Chinese. Oh Well.
So, Genie, why are you NOT attacking George the Smarter for not doing anything about N Korea?
And BTW – what did Bush the Sequel do about the USS Cole attack?
WSClark
Pope John Paul II and Reagan had more to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union than any Soviet leader.The support they gave to the Solidarity trade union in Poland was only part of it.On top of that, computers and communication were financed by Reagan and distributed widely by the Pope behind the Iron Curtain.Yes, information brought down the Evil Empire, but Reagan and the Pope pushed the process along.This — at a time when many liberals thought Reagan was completely wrong on his approach, Pershing Missles in Europe, walking out in Iceland, etc.
WSClarkThe Clinton Embassy staff in the UAE would not let anyone do much about the Cole bombing right after it happened.By the way, one of the Naval Commanders involved is from Kansas.He went to WSU.He now lives in Overland Park area.
Crap, Paulie. The USSR would have collapsed with out any assistance from the Pope or the USA.
They were going down, Gorbie knew it, and there was nothing that was going to stop them from hitting bottom.
The right wingers want to give Reagan credit, but the facts are that they would have gone down no matter what we did.
“The Clinton Embassy staff in the UAE would not let anyone do much about the Cole bombing right after it happened.”
In March of 2001, the CIA confirmed that bin Laden was behind the attack on the USS Cole.
What did George W Bush do about it?
Answer? Not a goddamned thing.
Nice to see prollie the union sell out give Soidarity the credit it deserves.
WS is correct. The myth that Reagan the pope and Maggie Thatcher brought down the Soviet Union is just that, a myth,
They just happened to be driving the bus.
MANY things colluded to collapse the Soviet Union. The most significant was their misadventure in Afghanistan.
This Korea deal? That’s what you have to do, deal.
We have 50,000 troops in South Korea to N. Koreas million. This will not be popular to say. But their troops are tougher then ours too.
N. Korea would roll over our troops AND south Korea like a bus over a road apple.
Truth be told, Reagan policies, in particular defense spending, had everything to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union.Along with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Soviet Union went bankrupt because Reagan forced it to increase defense (offense?) spending.Truth be told many of you do not seem to have very good recollections of the US “world standing” that is so often talked about under the current President that was under Carter.For lack of a better term, truth be told, James Earl Carter was the Soviets bitch.
“Union went bankrupt because Reagan forced it to increase defense (offense?) spending.”
This is a common misconception – the USSR NEVER increased military spending in response to the Reagan gift to the US military-industrial complex.
JR,Yes, the initial stage of another Korean war would be awful, but in the end, North Korea would not win without the help of China, as in the last all out war.China is probably reminding N. Korea, right now, that such support can be with drawn.(We are still in a state of War with N. Korea, there is only a cease fire in place, not a peace treaty).
By the way, JR the liar: You used to be very, very fond of saying that you voted for Reagan TWICE, which is a great “seminar liberal” device (lie) to try and sway the undecideds.I proved, long ago, that you were NEVER a conservative, as you have claimed. You cant come up with a single conservative action you support, a single issue, in your entire lifetime.And now, you cant come up with a single candidate, either!I think FDR was right about Germany and Japan. You think FDR was right about EVERYTHING. No one with a scrap of conservatism can think that!Thanks for reminding me of that victory over your previous goofy claims!JR the former Reagan Conservative who hates Reagan!
Ok truth, everytime you say ‘truth be told’ I think of some hippy hari krishna.
Can’t you just simply make a point instead of being weird about it?
Swing and a miss!
You over here crying about me too Paulie?
Liar?
I’ve never been called that here before….credibly.
And to have the honor from THE blog liar!
Oh but you had to lie to do it.
I have NEVER said I voted for Reagan twice. I would be stupid to do that AND often post my age of 41.
Simple math shows that I was too young to vote in 1980.
I invite you to prove your claim that I said I voted for Reagan twice. Otherwise you are busted as a liar.
AGAIN.
I cannot prove I voted for Reagan in 1984. But I did.My dad didn’t vote back then but he nearly kicked me outta the family!
The next isn’t a lie. It’s just you being stupid and showing it off.
“You cant come up with a single conservative action you support, a single issue, in your entire lifetime.”
Hmmmm I don’t know that it is a uniquely conservative view to SECURE OUR BORDERS. But I post about it all the time. I guess you miss those threads. You’re as conservative as your wallet is deep and you LOVE exploiting those refugees!
And while I feel that FDR was right about much? The internment thing was wrong. Otherwise FDR did what he had to do to save the country. The robber barons were comfortable. They didn’t much mind what happened to the rest of America.
Hoo boy your a hoot Paul. I almost missed you. Almost.
As a good friend of mine says. I am amused. And I encourage you to try again.
Now I will admit that I do not know the situation ref NK back in the late 80’s, but what I am seeing ref billary and jimma and what I’m seeing today, ain’t no difference.
Just capitualation allllll over the place.
You all need to read the book Munich (no it’s not about the olympics). It’s about the lead up to WWII and how Europe reacted to Hitler.
If you can read that and NOT see the same today, then we are truly in bad shape.
Oh and one more Paulie?
I note that the “god” of YOUR party the GOP? Ronald Reagan? A corrupted DEMOCRAT!
Reagan was a good man in his heart. But his social climbing wife turned him onto money.
He sold out.
You know about selling out Paulie.
I didn’t leave conservatism Paulie. It left alot of America behind.
Christ, Genie, are you really trying to compare the Islamic terrorists to Hitler?
Really?
Hitler had huge armies, an air force, a navy, a spy network, an industrial program to maunufacture weapons, a huge populous behind him, etc., etc., etc..
What does bin Laden have? A few goat shepards? A couple of poppy farmers? Mullah Omar?
Give me a break.
The difference between Hitler and the Islamic terrorist is the difference berween night and day.
Stop trying to compare the worst madman in history to a two bit wannabe.
India has not signed the NPT yet … that is blatant misinformation.
JRA small point on the “twice” issue. Your words led me to believe that you “always” supported Reagan, meaning voting for him twice.Bad assumption on my part, so I guess you tagged me, but I am not on the mat!Reagan actually gave amnesty to illegals, so you score a zero on that issue. Reagan made conservatives mad when he did that. My counterpunch is a bit stronger, don’t you think?So, I still say, JR, you are a liar, you were never a conservative.Maybe you voted for Reagan because you were young and made a mistake, for you, based on your beliefs? Maybe, neither of us can prove it either way.Not everyone who voted for Reagan was conservative. Some people just liked him personally.Your posts from the past claimed you were a former “conservative” and had always supported Reagan, but that the party of Reagan had left you.Baloney!The Republican Party in Kansas is far closer to Reagan’s beliefs now than it was when Reagan was President!You left, you went FAR FAR LEFT JR!
Paying the blood money to NK is a temporary fix, as we concentrate on bigger fish.
Carter did more damage there than did Clinton – but Clinton was busy chasing fat Jewish girls around his desk at the time.
The NK troops are not tougher – they’re desperate. They’re on the verge of starving for the most part. Every now and then, one or more will defect and head across the Southern border.
Our troops are in SK because we struck a deal to protect them – if they would not pursue nukes of their own.
SK has the bucks – NK has the tyrant. Eventually, Kim, if his own people don’t see fit to assassinate him (a boon to the world) will keep pushing the envelope until the Western World has to take more drastic measures.
His people are starving. They need to rise up and put him out of our misery.
Another Carter f*ck up.