The new National Intelligence Estimate doesn’t present an encouraging outlook for Iraq. It indicates that the United States has little control over what happens and that there is a strong possibility that the security situation "will continue to deteriorate at rates comparable to the latter part of 2006," the Washington Post reported. And even if Iraqi and coalition forces are able to reduce the level of violence — a big "if" — "Iraqi leaders will be hard-pressed to achieve sustained political reconciliation."
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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Interesting card from my collection, anybody know these folks?
POST CARD FROM IWO JIMA
(From:)Pfc. Emery B. Schwartz 904965Co. A, 5th Tank Bn.5th Marine Div. FMFc/o F.P.O. San Francisco
(To:)Leon & Betty Hodges2409 E. KelloggWichita, Kansas
Iwo JimaMarch 18, 1944Dear Leon & Betty,What have you kids been doing all the time since I’ve been gone? Alice says that Leon kept the kids amused the other night by drawing them pictures. I hope you keep drawing a lot, as it will come in very useful in many ways later on. On the way here a boy on the ship drew a different scene nearly every day.How are you getting along in school? Tomorrow will make one month here sleeping in a foxhole every night. I’ve only had my shoes off 3 nights and things have been plenty rough all the time. I hope you study hard in school and learn a profession so you don’t have to go thru this.I have to put this Jap post card in an envelope, as they won’t accept it otherwise.Love, Emery
But … but …
I thought the dead-enders were in their last throes and we were rounding the corner and we could see the light at the tunnel …
And MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Where are the righties to defend shrub and his war on terra?
I hope Rush O’Hannity attack these liberal CIA and Department of Defense TRAITORS who want to aid and abet the TERRORISTS with the same vigor and venom that they did for the peace groups that have been saying the exact same thing for four years now.
These AL QAEDA LOVING intelligence agents just want to make our President look bad for political gain. They WANT THE TERRORISTS TO WIN just so their side can seize political power.
They want AMERICAN SOLDIERS TO DIE, they CHEER every time an IED goes off, because they know it hurts our Commander-in-Chief.
If it were up to these intelligence and military AMERICA HATERS, we’d all be wearing burkahs and praying facing Mecca.
I hope these CIA and military intelligence agents DON’T SPIT ON THE TROOPS and BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG this time like they always do . . .
…listened to CNN’s Aussie Crock-o-denial Dumdee on the Iraq war…wonders if he’ll take a stinger missle to the chest…or will there be a weekly show featuring Crock-o-denial where he wrestles Iraqis while holding his infant daughter over a spider hole…:-)…
Whatever else can be said about Saddam, at least he kept order in Iraq. We can’t, and will never be able to, simply because we are an infidel occupying force.We made the hell we’re currently in and there’s no easy way out. Whatever we do, most Iraqi’s will be enemies for at least a generation. Our only option is to remember what happened, and not to do it again!
A single pathetic troll is all the reich-wing can summon in response to this thread.
chirp . . . chirp . . . chirp . . . chirp
nobody here but us crickets . . .
Gee, Capn, I was hoping the silence from the defenders of the decision to invade Iraq were silent because they were all reading the NIE.
Good one, VT, good one.
That be funny . . . if the whole damn mess weren’t so sad.
…snipes cricket from 1000 yards out then continues eating camel jerky…
VT – you are making an incorrect assumption … that they can read!
hey … otherwise known as “full of crap”, will you actually read the NIE? When you learn to read, that is.
Remember Vietnam? Apparently nobody does, at least in this so-called White House. We have been condemned by our own ignorance, not Bushman, to repeat the enormous mistakes we made in Vietnma, but now the fallout from our ineptitude has ignited the entire world to question both our power and our sanity. Take the kids out, bring them home, take our lumps over messing up this way, and spend the money on defense systems and education and health. Oh, and by the way, if we do not immediately do something long range to begin to undo what we have done by warming the globe with fossil fuels, it really will not matter what we do elsewhere. How could all of us preside over the election of the absolutely most incompetent idiot ever, not once but twice?
Robert McNamara’s 11 lessons from Vietnam‚Ä¢ We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.‚Ä¢ We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.‚Ä¢ We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.‚Ä¢ Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.‚Ä¢ We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces and doctrine…‚Ä¢ We failed as well to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.‚Ä¢ We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.‚Ä¢ After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.‚Ä¢ We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people’s or country’s best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.‚Ä¢ We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.‚Ä¢ We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.‚Ä¢ Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.
McNamara’s additional ten lessons1. The human race will not eliminate war in this century but we can reduce war, the level of killing, by adhering to the principles of a just war, in particular of proportionality.2. The indefinite combinations of human fallibility and nuclear weapons will lead to the destruction of nations.3. We are the most powerful nation in the world — economically, politically, and militarily — and we are likely to remain so for decades ahead. But we are not omniscient. If we cannot persuade other nations with similar interests and similar values of the merits of the proposed use of that power, we should not proceed unilaterally except in the unlikely requirement to defend the continental US, Alaska and Hawaii.4. Moral principles are often ambiguous guides to foreign policy and defense policy, but surely we can agree that we should establish as a major goal of U.S. foreign policy and, indeed, of foreign policy across the globe : the avoidance in this century of the carnage — 160 million dead — caused by conflict in the 20th century.5. We, the richest nation in the world, have failed in our responsibility to our own poor and to the disadvantaged across the world to help them advance their welfare in the most fundamental terms of nutrition, literacy, health, and employment.6. Corporate executives must recognize there is no contradiction between a soft heart and a hard head. Of course, they have responsibilities to their employees, their customers and to society as a whole.7. President Kennedy believed a primary responsibility of a president — indeed “the” primary responsibility of a president — is to keep the nation out of war, if at all possible.8. War is a blunt instrument by which to settle disputes between or within nations, and economic sanctions are rarely effective. Therefore, we should build a system of jurisprudence based on the International Court — that the U.S. has refused to support — which would hold individuals responsible for crimes against humanity.9. If we are to deal effectively with terrorists across the globe, we must develop a sense of empathy — I don’t mean “sympathy” but rather “understanding” to counter their attacks on us and the Western World.10. One of the greatest dangers we face today is the risk of mass destruction as a result of the breakdown of the Non-Proliferation Regime. We — the U.S. — are contributing to that breakdown
Vaughn Tolle,
“Wingnuts readin’.” That’s some funny stuff thar, ah tell you what…
holy mother of mercy,we are going into war with Iran just like we did with Iraq. Secratary Gates we are not “planning” to go to war with Iran.
“Whatever else can be said about Saddam, at least he kept order in Iraq.”
jed-You represent you people well. Keep up the good work.
…What the crats said about Sadam Hussein and WMD…http://www.glennbeck.com/news/01302004.shtml…:-)…
“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source
“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source
And we did those things in the 90s and succeeded. Saddam was successfully kept from buying any more US WMDs or developing a capacity to make his own.
woody you come back to lie some more, or you just here to harrass people?
And Beck is reporting what the Democrats said in 1998/99. That was when Saddam kicked out the UN Inspectors. After that, Saddam allowed the inspectors back in and they determined without a doubt that Saddam did not have a program of WMD.
It’s easy to criticize when you don’t have to have the answers; isn’t it?
I hope you’re still laughing it up when the homicide bombers are taking your families out standing in the checkout line at Wall-Mart.
It won’t be quite as funny when you’re making the stand in your own backyard.
especially if it against the likes on Ann Coulter’s hero Tim McVeigh
tracy-Where/how did I lie?
…The following was not convinced that Saddam was not successfully kept from buying any more WMDs or developing a capacity to make his own…So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…”- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
“We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them.”- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002″We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002″The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…”- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
“There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002″In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002″We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002…:-)…
“intelligence reports show”
Yea, and we have subsequently learned that the executive branch’s reports were bogus.
The Libs know that Bush must lose at all costs, America be damned.Libs = Sedition’s closest friends
craiger?
Have a seat with fleetwood the adults are talking here.
Check under your chair for bad guys.
I see craiger uses the term ‘homicide bombers’ to refer to what are otherwise called suicide bombers.
Usage of the term in this way has always intrigued me, for the following reason: when bombs are placed in an area populated by other humans with the intention to kill said others, and the bomb is then detonated remotely, or by a timer, should not the folks planting these bombs also be called ‘homicide bombers’, for it clearly was the intent of the bomber to commit homicide in this situation. If this be admitted, then it seems to me the use of the term ‘homicide bomber’ to describe a suicide bomber is not accurate, and the person who sets off the bomb, thereby killing him/herself along with others (admittedly a form of homicide) should be referred to as a ’suicide bomber’. What are the thoughts of others?
I think they should be called the Libs best friends.
All the lies..
All the lives….
All the money…..
It comes down to this:
“And even if Iraqi and coalition forces are able to reduce the level of violence — a big “if” — “Iraqi leaders will be hard-pressed to achieve sustained political reconciliation.”
That’s pretty cut and dried. It would seem to make any “surges” or timetables not only irrelevant but foolish.
That isn’t from me or Michael Moore. It aint from farmgrrl or Al Franken.
That is the National Intelligence Estimates assessment of Iraq.
Let’s get out of the way and let them sort it out.
…method of detonation and transportation of bombs intended to kill others is homicide…If ’suicide’ bombing happened in the US and he killed others and the suicide bomber some how lived,…Would not the suicide bomber be put on trial for homicide?…:-)…
Agreed VT. Homicide bomber is better used for the guy who only blows up others and not himself – like McVeigh. Of course, then you might add ‘homicide missler’ for someone who uses a missle to blow a civilian airliner out of the sky.
No fleettwood – we just know that Bush will continue to pursue failed policy at all costs.
CONS = America’s worst enemies
…500 tons of uranium (1/8th of it enriched) was found in Iraq, after US troops had successfully concluded the war phase…Ponders why people forget inconvenient facts…
I remember someone talking about “dead enders”.
Seems the only “dead enders” are those who still support our involvement in this mess….
…appears that crats have joined the French as Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys…:-)…
Let me help you out Vaughn.
“Homicide bomber” is a little twist of phraseology brought to you from FOX “news”.
“Suicide bomber” had been around for some time. It obviously denotes someone who deliberately blows themself up in the act of blowing up others.
FOX news decided that they would use “homicide bomber” to differentiate themselves from other media. The term is redundant really. Unless they decide to use “homicide shooter” or “homicide serial killer”. It’s just a little word game FOX plays.
I think the fact that the right has been reduced to making token snipes and not really participating in why we SHOULD stay in there, is pretty telling that we just need to get out now.
What would be enough to admit we were WRONG to do what we did?
Does every American have to die for this stupid war just to save face of the reicht wingers?
Bush is literally like the guy going crazy holding onto his beliefs as the reality becomes more and more apparent.
And isn’t it damn spooky, now after all this time since Michael Moore’s F911, that maybe he was right all along, Bush’s real target is Iran? A full 3fer all in a row. He sure is beating the war drum, but he’d be CRAZY to try to bring us into yet another war.
At this point, I think he might truly be that crazy. Drop the bomb just to start the war with Iran before we bust in the White House doors and remove him from power.
The reason why we lost in Iraq, and we HAVE lost in Iraq…is because of three things: a dishonest power grab, underestimating allies, enemies and the American people, and gross negligence in operations management.
The most interesting projection from this NIE summary was that even with reduced violence, it was skeptical that political reconcilliation could be achieved in the upcoming 18 months. The report as quoted in the post article rested this difficulty in reconcilliation at the doorstep of the Iraqis themselves – it was not due to outside influences.
I think the conditions on the ground will get worse even if our troops stay. If we withdraw now, I think things will get worse faster.
If there develops a regional Mid-East ethnic war (which seems likely) the impact on the global economy will be disasterous.
On NPR this afternoon, David Brooks and some other commentators were speculating that all the haggaling over the non-binding resolution(s) was setting the stage for the real goal of congress – which was to set up regional diplomatic interventions. Problem is who in the administration will be able to diplomacy — after all diplomacy is so French.
On NPR, David Brooks, who is almost always wrong, stated that whether it is imposed by us, or is allowed to happen after we leave, Iraq will seperate into three factions. This time, I think he is correct.
…Surmises Political Mom will not be sending CARE packages to troops in the field in Iraq…
“I think the fact that the right has been reduced to making token snipes and not really participating in why we SHOULD stay in there…”
Yeah, it is pretty sad when the best those clowns have is:”Libs = traitors”
The brilliance of such analysis is just breathtaking.
Perhaps the real goal is to ignite civil wars throughout the region. Right now we may have three of them – Iran, Lebanon, and Palestine.
Meanwhile we are enabling a terrorist group to operate in the north of Iraq – targeting Iran, Syria and Turkey.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/16609413.htm
In the camp, lugging heavy machine guns and AK-47 assault rifles, are men and women of the Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan, or PEJAK, an offshoot set up by the PKK in 2004 to fight for Kurdish autonomy in Iran.
The PKK and its affiliates are spread through a region of some 35 million Kurds that straddles Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. PEJAK, the newest group, claims to number thousands of recruits, and targets only Iran – a mission which has made PEJAK the subject of intense speculation that it is being used to undermine the radical Islamic regime of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
In the Nov. 27 issue of The New Yorker, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh wrote that PEJAK was receiving support from the U.S. as well as from Israel, which fears Iran’s nuclear ambitions and Ahmadinejad’s call to wipe the Jewish state off the map.
Suicidal homicide bombers
OR
Homicidal suicide bombers
Take your pick. The semantics are important. BUT since it’s all craiger has…
fleetwood,
Are you deny that Saddam didn’t keep order in Iraq?
I guess the best thing to do is ask the Iraqis still there. You know, the ones who aren’t dead from U.S. actions, Iriaqi insurgent/terrorist/whatever actions, left the country, etc.
sorry… *denying
“Talk is cheap. Join up to fight or shut up.”I am sorry to say, your argument is not logical.For someone who enjoys romantic comedies, you are very mean.
Ben Huie,
Massive chaos may, indeed, be the name of the game. It makes as much sense as any other move by this “Administration.”
The time for impeachment is now, before Iran is attacked. We attack Iran, it’s ‘game over.’ The repercussions are well beyond anything any of us are prepared to contemplate.
Are you deny that Saddam didn’t keep order in Iraq?
I guess the best thing to do is ask the Iraqis still there.
You mean the ones Saddam didn’t murder? Hitler made the trains run on time.The shrillness of you people is amazing.
fleetwood,
As someone whose only weapon is denouncing his opponents as traitors, the word ‘logical’ sounds like a dirty word coming from you.
Coward. Punk. Sleaze. Wingnut.
I’m with CF on this one. We need that nut out of office NOW. There is no time to lose.
I don’t know why I bothered reading …’s post, but…
“after US troops had successfully concluded the war phase”
What’s the current phase called? Bush and everyone keep using the term “war,” yet you’re telling us that the “war” phase is over. Do tell, …. We’re all awaiting your one-liner explanations (reminiscent of Paul, btw.)
Oh, and while you’re at it, please proved a link for the 500 tons. Thank you in advance.
*provide
Too danged cold to type OR think.
RD,
Them’s some good manners. Your parents are to be commended for your home trainin’.
It is, of course, all lost on the not-so-fleet one.
cf-I’m off “traitor” now and on “seditionist”.
Why won’t your leaders impeach?Why won’t they just cut the funding?As you people crowed after the last election “we’re in charge now! STFU!”
dothead (or fleet’s enema), this isn’t the troops’ fault, it’s not the troops’ failure. I don’t need to send them care packages if they’re AT HOME WHERE THEY BELONG.
I would pull my child out from in front of a speeding car careening towards them instead of handing them a box of cookies and say ‘good luck, son’.
RD, “…” is confused, as usual.
“500 tons of uranium (1/8th of it enriched) was found in Iraq, after US troops had successfully concluded the war phase”
Actually, the IAEA “found” it 12 years EARLIER, and had SAFELY kept it locked and sealed.Coalition forces failed to secure the area after invading — looters dumped it out when they stole the barrels.
‘Missing Iraq uranium ’secured’http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3009082.stm
Coalition forces also FAILED to secure these NASTY explosives after invading — did not have enough troops.
‘Al Qa Qaa HMX/RDX/PETN stockpiles’http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-explosives.htm“…the IAEA reported that nearly 340 metric tons of high explosives had gone missing from the former military facility at Al Qaqaa.”
Somebody or something is getting to the Fleetster. Are you boys and girls picking on him again?
Todd,
If you’re still here reading, just an addition to your comment above.
No, they can’t remember Vietnam. Cheney was knocking up Lynn for more deferments, while GW was guarding a Texass barstool from gooks. The rest (on the right) were ducking service in any way they could. Hey, it worked, too.
Who suddenly seem really quiet, are the Iraqi-American naturalized citizens who were all vocal saying we should go into Iraq. Where have they gone?
Thank you, cosmos. :)
Yes, I know all about it. I just wanted to see if “…” could back up his statement or would even bother to try.
PR, guys. I’m tellin’ ya.
Some GOP comments on the NIE report:
“We think it is accurate,” Stephen Hadley, Bush’s national security adviser, said in a briefing on the document, called a National Intelligence Estimate. “We would emphasize the `hard-pressed,’ because we will be pressing them hard and the Iraqi people will be pressing the government hard.”
“The NIE makes clear that we cannot continue the same stubborn strategy that has brought us to this point in Iraq,” said Michigan Rep. Peter Hoekstra, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. “It also makes clear that we cannot just pull our forces out as if that decision can be made in a vacuum and without consequence.”
But BushDaBum claims it as vindication of “Stay the Course”:
Administration officials portrayed the findings as support for the new strategy Bush announced last month, which included the troop increase, because it said that coalition forces are an essential stabilizing element in Iraq.
RD,
You’re on fire. You go, girl!
political_mom,
Excellent question, that.
fleet, your guys have had 6 years to impeach Dubya, yet they followed along behind him like rats following the Pied Piper of Hamlin. Trouble is, this particular Piper tripped and fell into the ocean of lies first, and now some of those rats are scrambling not to join him.
It was stated early on after elections that the dems would not focus on impeachment, but would put their words into actions and do something about things like minimum wage. Unlike Dubya, they’re walking the walk.
Just so I’m clear on this.Is it Bush who won’t listen to American people or is it Reid and Pelosi who won’t listen (impeach/cut funding)?
fleet,
You’d love it if they cut funding, wouldn’t you? Then all the tightie-righties can scream and yell that the left isn’t supporting the troops! DUH
See, guys, I think it’s the right who doesn’t care. After all, they’re the ones who are INTENT on this country being attacked again. They say we hate the troops, but it’s really them who hate EVERYBODY!
It is Bush who is not listening. The American people (and Reid/Pelosi) would MUCH prefer a change in policy without the bloodshed of impeachment. Unlike the Republicans, Democrats do not want to impeach unless they are forced to. Republicans happily impeach for strictly partisan reasons.
rd-1) Why would the Repubs impeach their own prez? You make silly statements.2)”After all, they’re the ones who are INTENT on this country being attacked again.”Getting sillier.3) If this war is as you say, the American people would stand up and cheer the funding cut/getting out of Iraq. Maybe it is not as you say (shocker)4)ben- There have been several calls for Bush’s impeachment on this thread, on this blog everyday. If Bush lied people died etc. and he has done all the things you people accuse him & Cheney of doing, it is Reid’s and Pelosi’s duty, yea, their obligation to impeach. The problem is, they haven’t done what the screaming left claim they have done. The hatred for Bush causes you people to exaggerate and (should I say it?) lie.Either impeach/cut funding (”We’re in charge, so STFU!”) or get off the pot.Maybe you people are not as in charge as you think. Maybe the election wasn’t about what you people keep saying it was (the war).
…notices Cosmos likes to blame troops as long as it fits his political agenda…Obviously yellow cake and enriched uranium could have been used to make dirty bombs…Wonders about the crats and their rationalization to abuse any one at anytime for purely political reason…
I do believe BDP fleetie has changed his view on bush and the situation in Iraq!
BUT he wants liberals to solve the problems for him.
Not very Conservative of ya there fleetie.
Hey fleetie? Without the votes to remove from office, impeachment is just an exercise in wasting time.
Now here is where YOU come in. Join the call for impeachment! Shout it out and a few cowardly Republicans might here you and vote to do the right thing.
According to MSNBC, 87% of believe that the President should face trial for impeachment.
msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/
I can’t find a recent more accurate poll on impeachment.
…Asks again if J R Bird is the same James R Bird convicted for scamming on Ebay…
…
the uranium I was talking about that Iraq had was under seal and everybody knew about it
…
believes that … would fight in Iraq if he weren’t a scared pussy like his heroes Bush and Cheney
…
the joke’s in his hand
jr-As you people delighted in saying after the election, my people are not in charge. I don’t think Bush should be impeached. It’s you people on this blog who call for this, then give a pass to your leaders when they won’t do it.pmom-You make my point for me, thank you. If that stat is true, Reid and Pelosi are not listening and are not doing their duty. Maybe they should be impeached. hmmmm?
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
The House Republicans impeached President Clinton in 1998 knowing full well, beyond a doubt, that they did NOT have the votes in the Senate to convict and remove him from office. They did not even come close to getting the two thirds majority needed for conviction.
The Republicans proceeded anyway, knowing the damage that would be done.
Now the Republicans are screaming that the Democrats should do what Bush wants and support him regardless or they should impeach him.
A casual count of the potential votes in the Senate would be about 60 – 40 for conviction of Bush – not enough for removal from office.
The exercise would be futile at this point.
Going forward, the odds will probably tip towards removal, but time may run out.
So, the argument of support Bush or impeach him is just a strawman – a useless debate point.
Rather than waste time arguing impeachment, we should be focused on getting us out of Iraq before more damage is done.
That would be a logical debate.
“Maybe you people are not as in charge as you think.” No fleet, we KNOW we don’t have absolute control. As noted, it will take 2/3 to convict. So, we will continue to try to reason with the cokehead as his fellow Republicans become more frustrated as well. Then, after enough GOP Senators come over it will be time to impeach – TWICE!
WSC – i agree: “Rather than waste time arguing impeachment, we should be focused on getting us out of Iraq before more damage is done.
That would be a logical debate.”
But, the BushBots would rather “stay the course” and let the country be damned. They place their cokehead hero above their country.
It isn’t about counting votes, it’s about doing the right thing. Again, if Bush and Cheney have done what has been charged, it’s the democrat’s duty. The charges made are damning. If true, they need to go. Get. It. On.Libs=All talk, no action (as usual)
What’s all the cokehead talk?
“it’s about doing the right thing” – I agree. And, since they don’t have the votes to convist (yet) the right thing to do for the country is to press to change the course. Then, if the cokehead remains obstinate, impeach and convict.
CONS = don’t give a damn about America
“Condoleeza Rice had a memo telling her that we were going to be attacked by planes into buildings a few weeks before it happened.” posted by JimG on another thread.
Perfect example of what we are talking about. If true, impeach. If so much Lib talk, STFU.
… “notices Cosmos likes to blame troops as long as it fits his political agenda”"…” is too STUPID to realize that the “troops” are NOT responsible for how many of them were sent — or strategy, such as what sites needed to be secured.
It was not the “troops” who failed to form the large, international coalition that was needed.
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
Hey, Peckerwood, why don’t you and all your gung-ho buddies–gung ho until it comes time to actually serve or pay for the war that is–watch this:
https://pol.moveon.org/donate/votevets.html?id=9811-2913021-cWGpwfvuhElrODWHCj5zlw&t=2
It’s an ad a bunch of Iraq War vets put together that they want to air during the Super Bowl.
There’s nothing like seeing a guy with no hand gesture as he describes Bush “not getting it” to really get it . . .
It is rather amusing that the CONS cannot in any way address the issues raised in the NIE so they simply lash out at those of us who saw it coming. They don’t give a damn about America; only about protecting their leader. Typical.
CONS = America-haters
Hey, Fleet, Bush the Sequel was convicted of cocaine possession in 1971 in Houston and performed community service. His record was expunged after he completed his service and probation.
Bush acknowledges being a bad boy, he just refuses to say how bad he was.
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
So, ben, if we get out of Iraq, all the lies, cheating, Haliburton, knowing about the 9/11 attacks go away?Sounds squishy and insincere.Libs=If they gave a damn about America, the would impeach to bring out all the evidence.
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
First the American people.
Then the intelligence community.
Now even the Iraq veterans themselves HATE AMERICA.
Thank God there’s still true patriots like three dots troll and Peckerwood to defend our country by sending other people to die for them and making other people pay for it . . .
…amused at the 5:14 troll…and challenges WE Blog to delete the message…Knows that WE Blog won’t delete because they are leftists and only delete “…” messages without cause…
Cut out the crap, “…”, Homer Arafat or whomever you are…. this is an unmonitored message board. Reposting the same message over and over again is a waste of time.
fleetie – just as with Frod pardoning Nixon; if that would get us out of Iraq I would favor letting the cokehead off the hook.
What you cannot comprehend fleet is that there are those of us who place country above revenge. So, if we could get our country on the right track we would be willing to forego revenge.
BDP fleet wants the libs to waste time on impeachment, so they don’t do things like get out of Iraq, and address human-caused global warming.
Off the hook? Surely, you know of the charges being made.If true, he doesn’t deserve to be let off the hook. Just admit it. The charges are just Hate Bush and not true, country be damned.”Now even the Iraq veterans themselves HATE AMERICA.”capn- You left you people off your list. Come on, get on the ball.
Pecker–
You write English very well for a raving lunatic, but not quite well enough for lucid people to understand?
In other words, what?
capn-Why aren’t your leaders impeaching? Why aren’t they cutting funding? Are they chicken shits?
“Bush the Sequel was convicted of cocaine possession in 1971 in Houston..”
ws-36 years ago?Please prove it. Thank you.
To quote your hero, Homer Arafat, Fleetwood, you are a one trick pony.
Your question has already been addressed.
ws-I have ESP. Soon will come a link from a site that is suspect. The site will give marching orders to the mind numbed. The mind numbed will obey.
Good point Fleettie, I think making accusations without proof is p**s poor. I wish Cosmos would get off the Global Warming kick, he’s beginning to sound like a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.
“Your question has already been addressed.”
ws-All I got was your tripe.Again, prove it. Thank you.
Fleetwood, Bush has admitted doing community service in Houston in 1971. Nothing beyond that can be proven since his record was expunged.
It is noteworthy, however, that folks don’t do community service in Houston out of the goodness of their hearts.
Especially spoiled, rich frat boys.
1. It’s been less than 30 days since the American restored the Congress to Democratic control.
2. Committing impeachable offenses and proving them are two different things. Bush is nothing if not a good liar.
3. One has to weigh the cost to the country of impeachment against the benefit of getting rid of Bush.
4. He only has two more lame duck years left–at present, he couldn’t get support for another cup of coffee. He’s like Bin Laden–not quite dead, just totally neutered.
5. There’s already a trial against this administration underway. And it’s not looking good for Bush-Cheney.
And since you’re so gung-ho to act instead of speak, I encourage you to enlist for the war you support so whole-heartedly.
The 6:02 PM post attributed to me is another troll – probably Fleet or Homer Arafat or even the Dothead.
ws-We knew it was a troll.capn-So weak as to be laughable. Which is it? You and yours have made charges that make Clinton look like a piker. And the repeated charges to enlist or shut up is stupid, makes no sense. Weak.
The 6:04 PM post attributed to me is another troll – probably Cosmos or Captain America or even Ben Huie.
Hey …, I got something that will take them over the edge. Don’t know if you listen to Rush, but he had this week about how much lying Hillary is capable of.
He played what Hillary had to say this past weekend about how she was snookered and all that and was led astray. Well Rush was able to play from back March 7, 2003 (before war) of Hillary talking to Code Pink. I don’t have the quote, perhaps you do.
It was Hillary telling Code Pink that she just could not agree with them about going to war with Saddam. She stated that she had spoken with her OWN contacts and saw the danger that Saddam posed and that he needed to be removed from power and that he had WMD’s. Like I said I can’t give the quote but she did say this was HER OWN PEOPLE telling her to vote for the war.
Reposted for the benefit of Fleetwood. My apologies for the rest of you that read it through the first time.
Please say a prayer for Fleet that he learns reading comprehension in the near future….
The House Republicans impeached President Clinton in 1998 knowing full well, beyond a doubt, that they did NOT have the votes in the Senate to convict and remove him from office. They did not even come close to getting the two thirds majority needed for conviction.
The Republicans proceeded anyway, knowing the damage that would be done.
Now the Republicans are screaming that the Democrats should do what Bush wants and support him regardless or they should impeach him.
A casual count of the potential votes in the Senate would be about 60 – 40 for conviction of Bush – not enough for removal from office.
The exercise would be futile at this point.
Going forward, the odds will probably tip towards removal, but time may run out.
So, the argument of support Bush or impeach him is just a strawman – a useless debate point.
Rather than waste time arguing impeachment, we should be focused on getting us out of Iraq before more damage is done.
That would be a logical debate.
Posted by: WSClark | February 02, 2007 at 05:17 PM
Thank you, ws, but it only makes my point. The Repubs didn’t count votes, they did what was right and you people should do the same. If Condi knew about 9/11, if Cheney is making money from Halliburton and the reconstruction, if Bush knew there were no WMD’s, if this was a war for Big Oil, then get it on. These charges are serious. If true, impeach. Stop with your weasely BS.
Fleetwood – one trick pony.
Is that all you got, ws.That would make you a no trick pony. If you can’t refute my claims, have another hit.Also, where is the cokehead proof.Also, in my experience, I have gotten much done while visiting my friend coke, but little while with my friend weed.Back in the day, of course.
Fleet, you have only chosen to ignore my points – ignorance does NOT make you right.
The Democrats have only held the reins of power for thirty days – if circumstances warrant, they will impeach, however, a prudent course is to address the issue and not the man and that point.
The second issue has already been explained – the Bush record was expunged – there is no record to pursue, however, can you explain why Bush was doing community service?
Back to the original point I made – you choose to ignore my responses and then claim that I am wrong and you are right.
Ignorance does not make you right, Fleet.
And …..
“Also, in my experience, I have gotten much done while visiting my friend coke, but little while with my friend weed.”
So are you advocating the use of cocaine, Fleet?
BTW – I have never used coke – how about you?
Thanks for that, Gene.
Now you know why we left-wing activists hate Hillary’s guts.
She was heckled today by CodePink no less.
Rush Limbaugh can’t get past his Clinton fixation.
They aren’t running the show any more.
Now it’s the democratic wing of the democratic party.
Limpbag is whining and moaning about Hillary . . . meanwhile we’re bagging and tagging your people.
Sucks to be you.
Fleet,
I’m not totally in favor of impeachment. I’d rather see him hang.
It took the Republicans almost SEVEN years to nail Clinton with something they could use for impeachment and get on with the task, which ended in pretty much nothing but a lot of money (OUR money) wasted.
fleet, how do you know nothing is being done? Are you privy to what’s going on behind the scenes? Investigations (on the record, not off) have to happen first. We have two years. Right now, I’d choose getting this country back on the right track first, then deal with the Liar in Thief later.
Two things positive I can say about Dubya:1. He’s been successful…in making his rich friends richer.
2. He learned something by watching Clinton. He’s managed (so far) to keep from having to testify under oath.
Oh, yeah, and Capn’s 6:04 post.
Impeachment would be a whole lot of fun; I am sure many of us would enjoy it. BUT, for the good of my country I would prefer to find a way to get our disasterous policies changed.
Let’s turn the clock back a bit: Gerald Ford probably could have gotten re-elected by NOT pardoning Nixon. There were many people who wanted their pound of flesh by prosecuting Nixon. I remember that time well. However, that would have continued the bleeding of our country that was taking place. So, Ford did the right thing for the country that he loved – he pardoned Nixon and closed the chapter.
Gerald Ford sacrificed his chances for re-election for the good of our country. I would rather see my country do well than have the fun of skewering a political enemy.
However, if the cokehead persists in dragging my country down then it will definitely be time to impeach.
How come everyone says ‘oh get country back on track, pardon the BIGGEST rip off artists of all time’…but yet, they could totally back impeaching clinton?????????
WTH I swear to god.
Those who are liars who have caused deaths and chaos to OUR NATION should be punished more than any common criminal.
I was just thinking earlier- if we make cops take psych tests and polygraph tests, why can’t we ask the same of our politicians before they get to run for office.
I’m a left wing activist and I support Hillary.
Why are you concerned about what Bush did in 1971 but not what Clinton did as a young man?
Impeachment is a load of crap.He’s an idiot and a drug addict, but no wait he fooled the world into going to war in Iraq.
Make up your minds, or just admit the truth. You hate him. Admit it. You have nothing but your hate for his policies and jealousy of him being born into a wealthy family. That’s fine and your right as an American. But quit dressing it up in a bunch of lies and idle threats of which there is no case (impeachment).
I don’t give a damn what he did in the past, what I care about is what he has done to this country since taking office.
Absolutely impeachable.
Just because you hate his policies don’t make them illegal.
I’ll bite, KIA.
Yes I hate George W Bush. I hate what he has done to the country that I love. I hate that he called me a traitor and a coward because I opposed his war of choice. I hate that he directed his political operatives to bastardize the electoral system rather than be a man of principal and demand that all the votes be counted.
I hate George W Bush because he wasted the goodwill of the entire world when he chose to attack Itaq rather than deal with al Qaeda.
I hate George W Bush because he chose give tax breaks to the already wealthy and the already wealthy corporations rather than tend to the “least of these.”
I hate George W Bush because he has made a mockery of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
And I hate George W Bush because he has severely damaged the country where I grew up and revered.
Yes, I hate George W Bush.
And more questions?
Fine. You and I disagree on all of those points. But my point is none of them (even if they were true) are impeachable offenses.My job here is done.
Good night.
No, Kia. I didn’t like Reagan’s politics, I didn’t like Bush Sr’s either. I didn’t think they should have been impeached.
Well actually maybe Reagan should have over his dealings with Iran/Contra, but he had people who liked him too much to do that.
There is not one redeeming quality of Shrub.
I believe Bush, Rove, Cheney, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, have systematically undermined the Constitution of the United States, cherry picked intelligence (uh-hem, lied) to make a case for war, lined the pockets of big oil and big pharma and big corporations, loaded up the supreme court with religious fundies, created a loophole program for federal dollars to go to churches, blew spending through the roof.
There is just a freaking boatload list- and you cannot tell me that out of all that, even by ACCIDENT, they could’nt have done just one thing right?
per usual
one.trick.pony.
WS said it better than me but I already had this written. And no kia, whether you accept it or not your job is NOT done. You are damned right I hate george bush. I’ve hated him since I found out who he was when they first started mentioning his name in 97 or 98 and I looked into what he was. A plastic man to get the way clear for the rich to get richer at any expense. His slimy campaign did nothing to convince me otherwise. And then the sonofabitch stole the election from a better man. There ya go kia I hate him. Now let’s talk about you and why you love him. How long you gonna hold onto bush kia? And the only reason you do it is because he butters your damn bread.Aren’t you any deeper than your bank account? From your own posts you care only about you and your little village of swells. This is about your country and the world. You should honestly be ashamed of yourself. But I guess California real estate don’t get paid for with honor.
…Looks like the leftist terrorist WE Blog is trying to block my IP again…Instead of going after the real trolls they go after me by blocking my IP…WE BLOG IS A LEFTIST BLOG…
Well, Dothead or Homer Arafat or Fleetwood – you just reap what you sow.
Too bad, so sad, you suck.
Kia,Both JR and WS said it so eloquently and there not much I can add. I have accepted that I hate GW. But it makes me sad as well because I see so many people that wanted “God” in the White House so badly that they have been willing to accept this “fake” Christian and let these folks divert them with all the emotional issues (gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, ect)while he rapes the country and destroys our credibility in the rest of the world. Unfortunately we have to put up with him for 2 more years because He believes his own hype that he can do whatever he wants and no one can stop him!
I don’t hate Bush! I think he’s incompetant and one of the worst Presidents we’ve had.
But I still respect the Office and the person. He’s not an evil vindictive person like Chavez, Saddam and Putan. And I don’t think he is recking our country like so many on the left cry that he does.
Does he suck? Oh Yeah! Should you hate him? That’s on you. I sleep well at night, because I know Presidents don’t have nearly the power that people think they do.
After reading the Iraq National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on the DNI website, I am convinced that the situation over in Iraq is now an outright civil war of three fractions.Shia, Sunni and kurds, the U.S. just as well take our interest with us, depart and leave them to their own vices, then deal with the winner after they are done.
…
heh heh heh
:)
…Funny popup!…Explain to me why I keep getting IP blocked…Other people have trolled me, cursed at me, yet I am the one to be IP blocked…I even have a typepad and typekey account and website. So you’re blocking someone who knows that you are abusing your power…You are abusing your power by only allowing what you want to hear and not other opinions…WE Blog is so bumpkin, blocking people for their point of view…
…It is so terrible to be the victim of abuses of power…… feels like crying…… is so sad… (tear drops)…Oh well, the WE elitists will block me anyway, so who cares
…Nixon = …’s heroMaybe not now… (tear drops…)…Dothead going to bed…
Do they train in the Airforce for Homicide Bombing?
…I guess WE Blog cannot control its board….Very sad for a Newspaper Blog…You got your wish. I am leaving. I never seen a group of people so afraid of others opinions that they behave in this way….No wonder know one wants to come to Kansas…
…Asks again if J R Bird is the same James R Bird convicted for scamming on Ebay…Posted by: … | February 02, 2007 at 05:03 PM
More vile Brownshirt tactics. Disgusting. No wonder the WE tries to block your IP. They should.
Why? Here’s why:
Given the off-the-charts creepiness factor in these posts, one could – perhaps should – ask if … is the same BTK convicted for multiple murders in Wichita: it’s THAT creepy.
Those dots have to stand for something, BTK and … both take 3 spaces, and I’m guessing if they’re not the same person then BTK is LOVING the show … puts on here.
…J R Bird could have simply answered the question yes or no. How many J R Birds are there in Wichita?…Pot calling the kettle black. You use a non-traceable name as well. Why are three dots more threatening than your “getta@clue.com”?…And what is a BTK, some some sort of Kansas Blog lingo?…
…?
You said you were leaving.
But here you are back again.
I hope you aint waiting on “J R BIRD” to answer your burning question before you depart. I don’t think that person is a poster here. I know it aint me. Satisfied?
Here let me gently nudge you with the toe of my boot. YOU know? To help you out the “door”?
You admitted to your fellow bloggers that your IP has been blocked. Not the first time. Very honest of you. Let’s tell them (affecting Paul Harvey) the REST of the story.
It so happens that IP blocking is not something the editors do lightly. There are many reasons which they explained at the meetup. I guess you were late to that part?
Well deal is “…”? They only do it to particularly loathsome trollers.
Paraphasing Phil Journey “There are some individuals responsible for most of the trolling that are such a problem that we did block their IP. When we did that, it reduced alot of the trolling.” There were some other speculations as to the character of folks like you. I’ll spare you that humiliation.
SO “…” the special attention you complain about was brought on yourself….by you. Any blogger who was at the meetup can confirm this. And now? Everyone knows it.
Buh bye
buh-bye …
Please, do leave us to wallow in our collective “kansasness”.
I assume you are not from ks? Like maybe from michigan?
Oh, and please take fleet with you. I think you all would be so much happier posting over at freeperville.
So why the need for SIX IPs? Is it THAT important to you and your troll masters to disrupt this blog?
Hee hee hee hee. I think someone must be blaming us for the 06 elections. Like someone in bonbon’s defeated camp? Like Cindy Duckett? Chuck? heheheheheheheheh
Hmmm, they must think we have more influence than WE think we do. Otherwise, why go to the trouble of having SIX ip providers so the WE cant block?
Or do all paid trollers need such tools?
…Okay J R, it was a good reply to a simple question…ksfarmgrrlI know you probably won’t read this as it is a tendency of the left to avoid what it is written and add their own twist. Some sort of Leftist dyslexia I suppose…I have six IPs because I have six computers. Four are dedicated to rendering. When one makes a Computer Graphic that is 3D or renders a video, the computer can be tied up for hours and even days….ksfarmgrrl, I read that you own a restaurant. Would you have just one small refrigerator for your restaurant?Its a matter of business and using technology to maximize the effort….I am not a professional troll. In fact the most trolls I’ve ever seen on a blog have been here on the “Kansas.com blog”…I am leaving because I have had my posts deleted and been IP blocked several times without explanation…The posts deleted were complaints about me being trolled by others and those making claims against me that were false…I have my own blog which uses the same technology as the WE Blog. I know very well what can be done. I also provide my posters a chance to redeem themselves if they get a little chumpy on the blog using foul language or use slander or libelous remarks….The problem I have with the individual that runs this blog is he/she cherry picks only those on the right side of political thinking…The leftists on the blog appear to get away with much more and their posts are untouched nor deleted nor do they get IP banned….So you right, I am posting too much in response. I’ll go back to my world where there are reasonable adults…
“Oh, and please take fleet with you.”farmgirl- What have I done to get your hate?Personally, I think … is funny and I enjoy his posts.
Hey …
Kind of off topic, but what kind of rendering do you do? Architectural? I’m interested in that.
It takes a bit of effort to get your IP blocked, Dothead. Since this is an unmonitored board, you have to worked at it. Since some of your IP’s have been blocked, you’ll just have to make do.
But you DID say that you were leaving – so see ya’ later – take Fleetwood with you.
Buh bye!
The following is the 9 page NIE report that apparently spurred Bush to actually visit with the oppostion today:
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/iraq_dni_20070202_release.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/03/AR2007020300701.html
Farewell, Dottie…
ws- Where is the love?
“I have six IPs because I have six computers. Four are dedicated to rendering. When one makes a Computer Graphic that is 3D or renders a video, the computer can be tied up for hours and even days.”
I see. Do you have a special need for public addresses on all of them, or just dislike using NAT?
P.S. Six dial-up servers would, of course, accomplish the same objective. . .just a thought.
P.P.S. Dothead ain’t leaving. H|is|er| ego wouldn’t permit that.
Bush getting ready to start his new offensive. The insurgents will just go into neighborhoods where we aren’t clearing, and come back once we’ve passed through. I expect a big escalation of bombings. Or, Baghdad will end up looking like Falluja.
steve – or both …
Maybe the real “dead-enders in their last throes” are Bush and his strategists.
In this story Iraqis are blaming the U.S. for the massive car bomb that killed 145 people (I believe that is the correct number). Their rationale for placing the blame on the U.S. is that our troops are pulling the teeth of their Shi’ite millitia, the Mahdi Army, whom they see as protecting them from Sunni reprisal killings.
“The chorus of critics said the new plan, which the Americans have barely started to execute, had emasculated the Mahdi Army, the Shiite militia that was considered responsible for many attacks on Sunnis, but which many Shiites say had been the only effective deterrent against sectarian reprisal attacks in Baghdad’s Shiite neighborhoods.”
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/nation/16625272.htm
The good news from the region, Iran and Saudi Arabia met over the weekend to develop ways of preventing the Iraq civil war from spreading through out the region.
http://www.localnewsleader.com/kindred/stories/index.php?action=fullnews&id=55897
Maybe Bush is a uniter, after all???