It’s time to stop celebrating the new moderate majority on the Kansas State Board of Education and start worrying about 2008, when the election could once again swing board control back to anti-evolution religious conservatives.
Moderate board member Janet Waugh (in photo) told the Douglas County Democratic Party Saturday that pro-science forces need to start recruiting candidates right away, especially with two moderates — Bill Wagnon of Topeka and Carol Rupe of Wichita — expected to give up their seats in 2008, the Lawrence Journal-World reported.
"We’re only 6-4, and in two years this can turn," she noted.
As if to prove her point, anti-evolution crusader Rev. Terry Fox recently issued a call to arms from the pulpit of his Summit Church in Park City, telling his flock that "these groups that believe that man came from a monkey are back in charge on the board" and vowing that "God’s army is reorganizing and will come again."
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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146 Comments
Hey Ben Huie,Would you be interested in this thankless, no pay, job?
Can’t afford it. I think they meet in Topeka. But, who knows …
Good afternoon blograts.
Let’s not forget ANYTHING concerning this.Iris Van Meter won in my district without even a campaign.Why? Apathy.She got termed a ’stealth’ candidate, and instead or running again she brings in her son-in-law (from Idaho) as a stealth candidate.(On the grounds that “he only cares about the kids”.)He cared soooo much, that when outed as a creationist stealth candidate, he quit his NEW teaching job at Caney and left the state, leaving the school AND the kids in quite a bind.Whattaguy.
Please don’t lie for Jesus.I really don’t think Christ cares all that much wether we teach the ‘controversy’, even if there was one.Do you imagine the test at the pearly gates?Okay: #1~How old do you believe the earth is?
#2:Are you now, or have you EVER been related to monkeys?
well, you get the idea.
Through the process of natural (s)election, the State BOE evolved from zealots to moderates. If the Board goes back to being zealots is it reverse-evolution?
I am not sure if I am related to monkeys, but my birth father was a horse’s ass. Does that mean that I am a creationist or a evolutionist?
Or is the correct term evolutionary?
It’ll give Crowson more to cartoon about.
Kansas is not safe in any realm of government from religious neocons. They can’t get the message that they’re overstepping. So we vote them out, then the next group thinks SURELY they’ve learned their lesson and puts their faith in the next, only for that person to get kicked out. Moderate voters need to wake up, neocons are NOT ever going to support you.
Ben:
See K.S.A. 72-7511a and K.S.A. 75-3212. :-)
Terry Fox is an idiot. No scientist claims we evolved from monkeys. Clearly it doesn’t take much education to be a hate monger preacher. Has Terry paid his tax bill yet? Nope, it looks like he still owes the county $1300.
Sorry to say but it doesn’t look like his tax money is going to teaching evolution so he doesn’t have much to bitch about.
brian~~YES!I believe the scientific term is devolution.
You can tell the really intelligent christians when they start off with that crap:I AIN’T MADE FROM NO MONKEY!
When you hear that argument,RUN.
For you moderate and reasonable christians, here is an EXCELLENT website, with over 10,000 clergy members signing their support for the teaching of evolution.http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/rel_evol_sun.htm
There’s bound to be a participating church near you.If not, ask your clergy to participate.BTW, the 10,000 are not self-appointed quacks.Look at their credentials.There are also sermons by many of them.
Maybe Terry Fox should ask his flock to pay his taxes for him.
I’m sure they would.
I notice that almost all of the signees are with mainline Protestant churches, the same one that have been suffering declines in membership for many years. There is a reason for that.
On the other side of the coin, if you are a Christian who believes that the Bible is the word of God, you may want to shy away from those who so readily compromise with the world by agreeing that God, the omnipotent creator of the universe, by definition had to work through Darwinian principles to create humanity. He doesn’t and He didn’t.
This is just a sure fire way for Terry Fox to rally his church members into a frenzy and into a bigger collection plate for himself. These preachers need to have a big bad boogeyman in order to keep his power over his church flock.
The evolution fight continues to steal resources from the Rapture Rights’ other issues. 2007 was supposed to be the year that teachers reintroduced concepts like demons as the cause of illness and the sun revolving around a flat earth.
HERE YA’ GO OUTIE.If you believe that way, then you argue with Rev. Falwell:http://www.fallwell.com/ignored%20verses.html
There is none so blindas those who will not see.
I think that it is important for Darwinian theory opponents that this campaign not be perceived as being advocated only in churches. 70% of Kansans already believe that evolution criticisms and alternatives should be taught in our schools (per WE Eagle KC Star poll last June). That’s a guaranteed win as long as we don’t get over the top type candidates.
There is a reason why they’re mainline Protestant churches…because most people agree with them.
Fundies are dangerous.
I posted this on the Open Thread:*****There is a dimension that ranges from what I call religous conservativism to evangelical activism to dominionism. The former may not be that interested in having religion influence government, while the latter insists upon it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism
If you home school your kids, send them to Patrick Henery College, won’t allow people to date your children unless marriage is in the offing – you are more likely to be a dominionist. Former Rep. Jim Ryun meets these criteria*****
I don’t know for sure where outlander is along the above dimension, but would his religious values move him to vote for a dominionist? I could see where it could, so in the end, and where it matters politically (how people vote), where one falls along this continuum, may not matter very much.
I have met outlander and believe him to be a sincere decent person. Before I met him I was not so sure on that. We are defintely cursed by living in interesting times.
Steven, I kindof like the word ‘Christo-fascist’.
“70% of Kansans already believe that evolution criticisms and alternatives should be taught in our schools (per WE Eagle KC Star poll last June).”
This is true due to:1) a very successful marketing type campaign by the Discovery Institute – their commericials are believable – look at their science – not so much.2) science is not an empirically based enterprise based upon a show of hands.3) the ID folk have been good marketers, the evolutionary scientists have not been. – this point is the main thesis of the documentary “A Flock of Dodos”
“Steven, I kindof like the word ‘Christo-fascist’.”
Seems kind of loaded with bias and hate. I am more interested in understanding this group of people – who have had a disproportionate impact on politics recently. When a lot emotion is in way, it makes study and understanding difficult, if not impossible.
Ya get what ya deserve. I think I’ll grow a tail and run for mayor.
One of my buddies at work is a preacher, and a confessed young earth creationist.We can take jabs at each other all the time about monkeymen and manimals.It in no way diminishes my respect for the man.He knows that he is not in the mainstream view, and he nor I have any problem with this.What WE do have a problem with, is christians who feel that only their view is the correct path to salvation.The ONLY christian thing to do is to support each other in things we can agree upon and work together at.There is no room for elitism and divisiveness when it comes to the gospels of christ.
Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.”
Agreed, Steven.
If a majority of Kansans want “alternative” theories taught, that’s because they don’t understand science.
As for OutLiar, his definition of a true religion is the most popular one: “notice that almost all of the signees are with mainline Protestant churches, the same one that have been suffering declines in membership for many years. There is a reason for that.”
Yup, and there’s apparently a reason that the growth of Islam way exceeds that of Christianity these days, right OutLiar.
Ignorant people have a need for certitude. Both fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity provides that certantiy.
True Christianity doesn’t. True Christianity says if you would become first, you must become last. If you would be greatest, you must become the least.
True Christianity is the hardest, most self-denying and self-defying religion in the world to follow. That’s why practically no one does . . .
Yeah, Roscoe, good one.
You been turning the other cheek a lot these days?
What a maroon . . .
The scary thing is that many creationists are not content to only have their own views, they want to force their ridiculous religious based view of science on the mainstream. I have no problem with any moron that wants to believe the earth is only 6000 years old, the whole universe was created in 6 days and that Noah had a T Rex on the ark, but the attempt to get my children to believe in this crap is something that I cannot stand idly by and let happen.
Tracy, why should we give a rat’s rear end about the opinion of self-confessed monkey’s niece?
If there is no Creator, the creation is just so much absurdity. A finite point without an infinite reference point. Something to make one nauseas, says Albert Camus and JP Sartre.
Creator = meaningCold matter = no meaning
Suck it up!
Capn- Is a “maroon” some sort of a cross between a moron and a loon??
Either or fallacy, Ms. Trollerious.
One can believe in God and the theory of evolution. There is absolutely no contradiction except in the minds of radical fundies who have no concept of the poetic metaphor used throughout the Bible.
Darwin’s father was an Anglican priest and he himself studied for the priesthood.
Not a problem except for people who have an emotional need to see themselves as completely different than everything else in God’s creation . . . .
Gster . . . not really sure. Bugs Bunny always said it.
OMG Roscoe used a period instead of an exclamation point. See, evolution in action folks.
It is hoped that society will eventually ….evolve… past the need for primitive belief in imaginary deities.
Whadya’ wanna bet our troll is Tippy? (GSheridan)(Glyn)Any takers?IT has a thing for me.
Yes Al Gore DOES seem to be doing pretty well for himself.
Oscar winner Al Gore.
Nobel Peace prize nominee Al Gore.
Future Nobel laureate Al Gore.
Meanwhile, bush continues his quest to become the most despised person on the planet.
New AP poll 64 % call bush’s big Iraq adventure not worth fighting.
Well, at least Bush is #1 in SOMETHING!
The documentary “A flock of dodos” is making the university showing circuit at this time. I have inquired about getting a copy of the DVD. There are several prominent Kansas featured in the film. The most sympathetic Kansan is the film maker’s 83 yr old mother, who is trying to figure what all is going on with the arguments. The ID propoents are sure they know the truth, the evolutionary biologists are sure, too – But Muffy doesn’t know for sure.
The maker of the movie is a evolutionary scientist – his mother being in the film was not planned, but her role grew as the makers’ got feedback about her importance in the film’s message.
http://www.flockofdodos.com/synopsis.htm
http://kusfs.kcfs.org/
oops that was meant for the open.
Oh well it looks good here too.
Steven: I appreciate your vote of confidence in my decency. But in thinking about it, the fact that you would say so would seem to be more of a backhanded insult, unintended, I’m sure. I don’t think that I say things that would cause reasonable folks to think that I am not a decent person. Perhaps things that you don’t agree with, but that is a different matter.
For instance, I would say that you support faith-based science being masquerading as science. I don’t. So in my mind, it is not Darwin critics who are trying to impose their beliefs on anyone. We think it to be the other way around. We don’t insist that ID be taught in schools. And we certainly wouldn’t insist it taught as the unmitigated truth the way Darwinism is.
Anyway, I do appreciate the way that you generally approach disagreements in a civilized manner.
outlander,
I did not mean any of my comments to be back-handed insults. I was just sharing my impressions in meeting you. My impressions are not infallible, as you, no doubt, know.
The fact that you thought I might be insulting you speaks to how difficult it is for people on opposing sides of the Darwin/ID debate have in communicating with one other.
“For instance, I would say that you support faith-based science being masquerading as science.”
I may be having difficulty understanding what you are saying here, but if I am getting you, I would say we hold percisely opposite (as in 180 degrees) perceptions.
This argument is not new; for the past 150 years there has been a concerted attack on Darwin’s theory going on somewhere. The ID piece is just a new wrinkle.
outlander,I hope our children and grandchildren can figure out something more useful to argue about.
“True Christianity is the hardest, most self-denying and self-defying religion in the world to follow. That’s why practically no one does . . .”
This was posted earlier and nothing could be further from the truth. Roscoe I appreciate the way you stay with the poster on this blog.
They are so tolerant of those who have a different belief system than they do – they are always saying that everyone should be allowed to post their opinions and they read them and say ‘how nice even if I don’t agree with them’.
I just couldn’t resist commenting on Al Gore and his ‘award’ winning documovie. It must be very hard for him to hear that many more climatologists say we are going through climate changes much as has always happened. Does anyone remember the original ice age?
Evolution or creatationism? It is a moot point. Parents need to be very vigilant about what their kids are filled with in public schools. The days of teaching children skills that will prepare them for life are gone. They are now force fed social indoctrination. Tolerance is the new buzz word. Oh but that only means that you have to be tolerant of liberal dogma but draw the line at conservative values. Look at the dropout rates. It’s in the Sunday eagle. Talk to most of the high school graduates. They have a hard time stringing six words together in a coherent sentence.
But we are making them much more socially acceptable. They might be successful street people or day job workers. I guess they can always fall back on fast food jobs. Isn’t they why we are raising the minimum wage?
Again I say evolution or creationism – who cares. Teach them to read, teach them to add, teach them how to write well enough to fill out a job application, teach them to talk intelligently, teach them how to interview for a job, teach them science principles and don’t spend so much time on theories.
I know this won’t happen anytime soon because I read the bloggers here and realize they are results of public education. WS I was surprised to learn of your heritage but that could explain some things.
When looking at our school board openings as they become open, we need to bring in traditionalists who believe in education as training for life not teaching liberal values and lifestyles.
I agree Steven. There are so many more worthwhile things to do and discuss. I had made a promise to myself (that I obviously didn’t keep) to avoid the futility of arguing issues like Darwinism, religion, abortion etc… The ones that everyone’s mind is pretty well made up and unchangeable. But I was determined to add my opinion. I will redouble my efforts to avoid the temptation.
“He doesn’t and He didn’t.”
Outlander,
God didn’t write the Bible. The men of those days who did had little science knowledge, if any. What difference does it make if God truly created the world in 6 days or if He (I’m capitalizing for your benefit, out of respect) did it in 6 billion? Perhaps God did come to those men or men before them and tell them He did it in 6 days, but for one who always has been and always shall be and is in a place where there are no days or nights nor is it measurable by time, getting stuck on the 6 days thing is pretty darned picky…and foolish, too.
Why not focus on God being your Creator and Jesus your Salvation? Especially that last one!
If God wrote anything, it was the 10 Commandments that were given to Moses. Other than that, men did the writing according to “what God told them”.
I hope the State BOE gets off the Money Wagon and begin to do their job of helping to educate the kids. They need to suport and help fund more meaningful and creative teaching in the Kansas classrooms.
AMen Richard Caldwell!!
RD: Your int..Um…., never mind. Thank you for sharing your opinion.
“WS I was surprised to learn of your heritage but that could explain some things.”
I would hope that you are capable of explaining that comment, Germie.
God called the light day and dark night! It was not until day 4 that stars, sun, moon were created and that the greater light (sun) governed the day and the lesser light govern the night! No one knows the length of the first three days nor the length of any day! Man had not put artificial limits on what defined minutes, hours and other time registrations! Even the cycle of the sun was disputed by men until recent times! It was God’s word that created all. It is the premise of ex nihilio that Darwinians and Big Bang theorists want us to believe! Ask a person what is truth! If they can’t answer in a short time, they are a non-believer!
I guess I should ask which part of my heritage are you taking a shot at, Germie? The African American part? The Jewish part? Irish? Norweign? Native American? German?
Or do you just find it humorous to belittle someone’s heritage for no reason?
If you are referring to comment about my birth father – it was a joke amongst friends – and you are not one of my friends.
Roscoe Phelps.
Phelps is a Minister of Satan’s works! A blasphemous vile man who does not teach the love of God, but the hatred from his own demons!
WS it was only a stab at levity. Meaning that sometimes you show a stubborn streak. Nothing personal intended. I should have put a string of those hehehes after it like Ksfrmgrl.
WS sorry I am not on your friend list. I guess I throw that word around more openly than you do. I’ll keep your admonishment in mind and only talk very seriously with you. Please accept my profound apologies.
At the National Governors Association conference, an inventor named Dean Kamen spoke about his group For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology (FIRST).
First pairs up high schools and corporate sponsors, as well as some foundations, to support after-school science and technology clubs with regional and national contests, in things like robotics. Students get to work with practicing scientists and engineers. The goal is to open kids’ eyes to science and technology career opportunities, and inspire them to aspire to such careers.
Anyway, In Kansas, Olathe, Overland Park and Paola have FIRST teams. We have substantial engineering expertise in Wichita, as well as sources of corporate funding. Are any Wichita schools going to be participating in FIRST this year? Does anybody know?
Roscoe Phelps, prove what you say is the truth. Just because you and the bible say so, doesn’t make it so. And actually, I’m sure God had a non-english word for day and night.
I want to know how you don’t know the bible wasn’t written by someone like David Koresh and his followers. Can you prove they all weren’t a bunch of nutcases?
That should have read a 1st century David Koresh and his followers, types..
God knows your heart! The rest is up to you!
PMom prove to me that air exists. Can you see it? Can you hold it in your hand? Can you package it to use later?
Faith sometimes is the only and best answer. You certainly can believe as you want but why is it necessary to tear somebody elses faith apart?
It is necessary to attack faith in order to defend oneself from its followers.
Oh and ksgrm? I can prove air exists with the simplest applications of experiment. I am holding air in my hand at all times. I can indeed package it and use it later. Duh. Ever hear of a scuba tank?
“…teach them science principles and don’t spend so much time on theories.”
This statement mystifies me. It would be like saying lets be sure to teach them to add and subtract, but spend less time on arithmetic.
Theory and theories hold an important place in science. Constructs which add up to theories are most often inferences about things that are not directly observable.
Has any one ever directly observed animal or human learning? The answer would be “no”. We can observe changes in behavior that are the result of various experiences and thus infer that learning has taken place.
Same with gravity, no one has directly observed it. We have observed the result of gravity and the construct/theory of gravity seems to best explain the relationship between our observations.
I suggest people learn about science before beginning crusades against it.
“Faith sometimes is the only and best answer.”
Faith and inference are two different things. See my post above.
ah but faith is not truth, it is a belief.
I can prove that air exists, it’s relatively easy to do.
put celophane over your face and nose and try to take a breath.
Isn’t it a poor use of words to say “god’s army?” Would God want an army? I think God would want the bible to be taught in church and science to be taught in school. Pastor Fox is using that old time religion to scare his airhead followers into another irrational highly embarassing blight on the state of Kansas. Hey Pastor Terry….I will agree with you on one thing…God did create homosexuals.
Roscoe, you do know the bible was put together by Catholics years after Jesus right?
That they all sat around and decided which writings to include and exclude.There were many that were discarded.
Actually, Germie, I have a can of air in the linen closet. I use it to clean the computer components and the other electronics in the house.
It works great, ‘cept the can gets really goddamned cold after a minute or two.
Perhaps God created homosexuals and creationists evolved from monkeys?
My theory on evangelicals is they’re like mushrooms: you feed em shit and keep em in the dark.
Since someone else referred to a post on another thread, I posted this on the Brownback thread:
The problem for these people claiming to be doing “God’s work”, is to be shown to be wrong it is impossible to admit it was a mistake or that it is a “unchristian” way of thinking. Else for them it would be the same as saying that God was wrong. These modern day Pharisees such as Pastor Fox, by saying that it is God commanding them to take action. Put the blame for their actions on God and take no personal responsibility for acts that otherwise would be called hateful, racist or bigoted.
The marriage amendment was one of the most hateful, deceitful and discriminatory piece of work since slavery. Denying basic privilege to a group that is a given right for others based solely on something that is not within they control. (yes I know I am starting another round in that old debate) It was based on a very human distain against homosexuality, but cloaked in a set of scripture that was directed toward people of the faith.
But by covering them selves with the cover of “God’s word” these people can act in a very unchristian way.Ignore basic Christian believes and if the world comes down around they ears. Point to God and saying it is the Lord’s fault and it is the forces of the Devil that are working against them. Generating a self fulfilling prophecy that as Christians they are being put upon for their faith.
Posted by: writerdog | February 26, 2007 at 05:46 PM
Perhaps homosexuals created monkeys and God evolved from creationists?
Perhaps creationists created monkeys and God evolved from homosexuals?
Damn, who the Hell knows?
Packaged air is just that processed air. Unless I want to run around all day with an air tank on back I have to have faith that the air I need to breath will be there when I need it. Pmom that would only prove that the celephane exists – not the air. And the comment you wrote about the catholics writing the bible only points up the truth of the lack of real education in our public schools. I challenge you to read two books by Josh McDowell. They are Evidence that demands a Verdict and more verdict that Demands a Verdict. McDowell was an atheist who was writing his doctorial thesis on the proposition at the bibile was false doctrine. An interesting thing happened when he researched the evidence to prove his supposition. He became a Christian.
WS look closely at that can of air you have and you will find it contains difluororthane, a chemical and certainly not the air you breath. And by the way I only let my friends call me by my nickname so lay off OK.
“And by the way I only let my friends call me by my nickname so lay off OK.”
Okay, I’ll call you the Grandma from Hell.
So one guy wrote a book about the creation of the bible and you believe that despite ALL the other research and even THEOLOGISTS who say the bible was put together by Catholics?
False Prophet Roscoe preached lies! Serpents spew from his mouth. Remember, Jesus warned us to not follow such false prophets!
I know that some of you don’t have enough exclamation points available to you. As a public service, I am willing to share some of mine. Please feel free to use as many as you need when debating a point with Roscoe.
Here is just a small portion of my private stash….
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As I said, I can prove that air exists easily.
Can anyone prove God exists?
And if he does? Let him make an appearance or two in a classroom. I don’t think there is anything to stop him.
Which version of Creation should be taught? There are many. My ancesters had a very different one long before the Europeans came here.
Pmom as WS says so frequently ‘ show me the evidence ‘. I think your knowledge on this subject is lacking. I know you believe what you want to think depending on who you hear it from. After all you believe Al Gore is an environmentalist even though he uses more electricity in his mansion in a month than a normal house does in a year. Another big mouth who preaches do as I say and not as I do.
WS who can dish it but not take it – I will remain above the fray. I apologized to you for offending you.
Well, Grandma from Hell, I can take anything you dish out, unless of course you have Dr. Laura photos of yourself, but attacking someone’s heritage is out of bounds.
I have complete control of my opinions and my actions. I cannot control my heritage. I am proud of my heritage, but I cannot change it, even if I wanted to.
So shoot away – I can take care of myself.
Ksgrm–
Actually when I said that Christianity is the hardest religion to follow, I meant it as a compliment.
Most religions like Judaism and Islam are based on following rules–easy.
Christianity is based on spirtual enlightenment from self-sacrifice–hard.
Remember what Christ said to the good Jewish boy who was so proud of himself because he had kept all the commandments, “sell all you have and follow me”?
Have you sold all you have and followed Him?
I haven’t. I’m too selfish and too worried about self.
Thank goodness I have God’s grace to fall back on . . .
I have absolutely no idea of what your heritage is and would never make snide remarks about it if I did. I am offended that without even knowing me you made that assumption. I was responding to something you said about yourself and was doing it in jest. Call me what you will. It’s OK.
http://www.bibleorigins.net/archaeologydatestexts.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible#The_canonization_of_the_Bible(an easier read of synopsis).
From a religious site:http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topics/Bible/Bible_Canonization.html
From an atheist site:http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Christianity/The_Bible/bibles_unholy_origins.htm
Basically anything you type into Google with bible canon, bible history, bible timeline, will give you the same thing.
Absolutely right Cap. Without that grace where would we all be?
I think this is funny, grandma who loves the bible so much doesn’t even know where it came from.
Must really suck to have a deist tell you the truth, huh?
See, I can do that, because I’m not blinded by lying pastors.
Well, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Al’s carbon footprint is pretty big.
He’s rich. His mansion in Nashville is ten times bigger than an average house.
That’s what rich people do–they engage in conspicuous consumption.
Bush, Clinton, Cheney, Kerry: the parties are different but the wealth is the same. “Having more money” is just another way of saying I’m taking a lot more than I need and to hell with you . . .
Look at the entire United States: 5 percent of the world’s population and 25 percent of its energy use.
Pmom this makes my point. The process below, part of your post, explains how the bible was written.
• Progressive collection of authoritative scriptures• Written by recognized anointed men of God such as prophets and apostles.• Recognized and accepted as authoritative by the community of God’s people
These words were passed down on scrolls laboriously hand written. They were then written in books to be bound by Franciscan monks. This process was used until the Gutenberg presses were invented and the first bible was mass produced.
The scriptures themselves were handed down through the ages and not written by any author. Christians believe that this is indeed the word of God. There was a period of time between the old testament and the Birth of Christ and the writing of the new testament. This was about 400 years. The Macabean monks found some documents that they felt covered this period. This premis wasn’t accepted by most relegious scribes at that time. Catholics do use these and that is why a Catholic bible contains the Macabees.
Grandma, have you ever played the game “gossip”?
You should try it sometime.
You would think the inspired word of God would contain a lot more. A guide to life based on 1st century life, you’d think more would apply to life in the future as well.
“thou shalt not use a cell phone during dinner in a public place”
“thou shalt not neglect the o rings when attempting to travel into the heavens”…
“Christians believe that this is indeed the word of God. ”
Muslims believe that the Quran is indeed the word of God.
Hindus, Buddhists, etc, all have theor holy books.
All should be free to do so.
None should be prosetylized in the public schools.
All should be taught in philosophy and comparitive religion.
Pmom I just state the facts. If you have trouble with those then I’m sorry for you that you feel the need to continually attack Christians.
You choose to accept your facts and I choose to accept the facts around which I have based my life and value system. I won’t put you down and would love it if you didn’t constantly feel the need to put Christians down on a daily basis.
Sometimes people have an empty spot in their life that becomes filled with hatred. I’m sorry if that has happened to you.
So, Grandma from Hell, why do Christians feel the need to put down anyone that does not agree with their agenda?
Let’s start with lesbians and homosexuals. Medical evidence clearly states that gays and lesbians are born that way.
So why is the Christian Right so against giving equal rights to gays? Why isn’t gay marriage accepted just like straight marriage?
Why the hypocrisy?
ksgrm “I choose to accept the facts around which I have based my life and value system.” Oh really? Aren’t you the Democrat that became a Republican? So much for values.
You must be dead to this world to be born again!
Ben I agree with what you say to a point. I was never taught relegion in highschool but took Comparitive Religions in college.
Today it is not unusual to take a class for a day trip to visit the Muslim Mosque in Wichita. THis happens all the time. What is the difference in this and teaching any other religion?
I think this is just as wrong as teaching Christianity in school would be.
WS I am offended by that moniker so if calling me a name helps you, please change names. Unlike you I believe hell is a real place.
Actually there is no medical evidence that has been established to mark a person as gay or straight. There is a big debate in the science world about this because most think that parents if given a choice would choose to change their sexual orientation before birth if it were possible. That bothers a lot of gays.
With such a low opinion on marriage as most people on this blog espouse I have always wondered why gays would want it anyway. I think that all legal avenues should be opened to them. I have a will which leaves everything to the people I want it to go to. You can sign a document making anyone you want as the decision maker in medical situations. I don’t think it is because I hate anyone that I feel marriage should be one man and one woman. I could be wrong about this. Time will tell.
JR there is that old assumption thing again. I do have values and it was those values that would not let me support a party made up of people who were so in your face with their excesses while telling you to divest yourselves of yours. A party that has never met a tax on the hard working class they see as rich that they didn’t like. Even when they had trust funds offshore (Teddy Kennedy) that they didn’t pay taxes on. They have become the party who wants to take your money and give it to the “poor” as they see them and some of us see a large part of them as lazy.
I didn’t leave the democrat party it left me. That is a quote but very appropriate.
“Actually there is no medical evidence that has been established to mark a person as gay or straight.”
Actually, Grandma from Hell, medical science has determined that there are significant differences between the brains of straight and gay patients.
So, I ask once again, why the hypocrisy?
If there is medical proof that homosexuality is a trait that one is born with, how can CHRISTIANS oppose gay marriage?
There is also significant difference between a brain scan of a stressed person and one who is relaxed!
My experience was exactly the opposite.
A Reagan and straight GOP ticket voter at the age of 18, I quickly found that party at odds with almost anything promoting a free and just society. The GOP would burn the whole planet for a buck.
What YOUR story betrays is you got yours and sold out your values. Shame on you. You are no deeper than your pocketbook.
you haven’t stated any facts at all.
Does Jesus’s body matter?
I’m hearing a lot of crazy things from the pundits discussing the supposed finding of Jesus’s body.
So my question…IF it were proven to really be the Jesus of Christianity- would it really kill Christianity?
I don’t really think so. All those that have been proven incorrect have been chalked up to human error, and everything else in the doctrines still the ‘inspired word of God through the hands of the writers”.
Faith is just that, faith, and I don’t think very many would change their whole belief system on a mistake made by someone who wrote something years ago. It’d be redesigned as an error in interpretation. You can give facts all day long to Christians and they have this knack at sticking their fingers in their ears.
But even if it did cause someone to disown Christianity- would they take up a new religion? My experience has been no matter what faith, once you lose it, you don’t seek out another belief.
One of the things I heard was that Jesus was a very popular name, a top 3 name for that time. How come we haven’t heard about this little tidbit before? So what are the odds that only one rose to become popular and written about. Could it be that the stories of Jesus actually are different Jesuses?
I also think it’s improbable that all of them would be buried in the same place, Mary M, son of Jesus, Jesus, Mary and Joseph. However, the Egyptians showed that they did in fact bury many in the same family in the same tombs and traveled long distances to do so.
Another thing the pundit said…was that they would bury Jesus in his hometown if his body were still here. I don’t think that means anything at all.
WS when you get on these stubborn streaks there is no way anyone can talk to you so I won’t try. I asked you nicely to refrain from calling me that so I can only assume you are not a nice person.
I admitted I have quandries about the marriage thing. I think it is just a symptom of social change that is being pushed by a fringe group. When they have marriage what will be the next bridge they want to cross.
Show me the link you are referencing here. Recently they was a lot of medical noise about isolating a section of the brain in a sheep that is believed to make the males like other males. I haven’t seen this same research on human brains. Show me.
Gram, you just want to believe most are lazy.
Here is a good article:
1 in 6 Americans now rely on public assistance
By Stephen Ohlemacher – Associated Press Writer
Monday, February 26, 2007
Washington — The welfare state is bigger than ever despite a decade of policies designed to wean poor people from public aid.
The number of families receiving cash benefits from welfare has plummeted since the government imposed time limits on the payments a decade ago. But other programs for the poor, including Medicaid, food stamps and disability benefits, are bursting with new enrollees.
The result, according to an Associated Press analysis: Nearly one in six people rely on some form of public assistance, a larger share than at any time since the government started measuring two decades ago.
Critics of the welfare overhaul say the numbers offer fresh evidence that few former recipients have become self-sufficient, even though millions have moved from welfare to work. They say the vast majority have been forced into low-paying jobs without benefits and few opportunities to advance.
“If the goal of welfare reform was to get people off the welfare rolls, bravo,” said Vivyan Adair, a former welfare recipient who is now an assistant professor of women’s studies at Hamilton College in upstate New York. “If the goal was to reduce poverty and give people economic and job stability, it was not a success.”
Proponents of the changes in welfare say programs that once discouraged work now offer support to people in low-paying jobs. They point to expanded eligibility rules for food stamps and Medicaid, the health insurance program for the poor, that enable people to keep getting benefits even after they start working.
“I don’t have any problems with those programs growing, and indeed, they were intended to grow,” said Ron Haskins, a former adviser to President Bush on welfare policy.
“We’ve taken the step of getting way more people into the labor force and they have taken a huge step toward self-sufficiency. What is the other choice?” he asked.
In the early 1990s, critics contended the welfare system encouraged unemployment and promoted single-parent families. Welfare recipients, mostly single mothers, could lose benefits if they earned too much money or if they lived with the father of their children.
Major changes in welfare were enacted in 1996, requiring most recipients to work but allowing them to continue some benefits after they started jobs. The law imposed a five-year limit on cash payments for most people in the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, or TANF. Some states have shorter time limits.
Nia Foster fits the pattern of dependence on government programs. She stopped getting cash welfare payments in the late 1990s and has moved from one clerical job to another. None provided medical benefits.
The 32-year-old mother of two from Cincinnati said she supports her family with help from food stamps and Medicaid.
Foster said she did not get any job training when she left welfare. She earned her high-school equivalency last year at a community college.
“If you want to get educated or want to succeed, the welfare office don’t care,” Foster said. “I don’t think they really care what you do once the benefits are gone.”
Foster now works in a tax office, a seasonal job that will end after April 15. She hopes to enroll at the University of Cincinnati this spring and would like to study accounting. She is waiting to find out if she qualifies for enough financial aid to cover tuition.
“I like data processing, something where it’s a bunch of invoices and you have to key them in,” Foster said. “I want to be an accountant so bad.”
Shannon Stanfield took a different, less-traveled path from welfare, thanks to a generous program that offered her a chance to get a college education.
Stanfield, 36, was cleaning houses to support her two young children four years ago when she learned about a program for welfare recipients at nearby Hamilton College, a private liberal arts school in Clinton, N.Y.
“At the time I was living in a pretty run-down apartment,” said Stanfield, who was getting welfare payments, Medicaid and food stamps. “It wasn’t healthy.”
The program, called the Access Project, accepts about 25 welfare-eligible parents a year. Hamilton waives tuition for first-year students and the program supplements financial aid in later years. Students get a host of social and career services, including help finding internships and jobs and financial assistance in times of crisis.
About 140 former welfare recipients have completed the program and none still relies on government programs for the poor, said Adair, the Hamilton professor who started the Access Project in 2001.
Stanfield, who still gets Medicaid and food stamps, plans to graduate in May with a bachelor’s degree in theater. She wants to be a teacher.
“I slowly built up my confidence through education,” Stanfield said. “I can’t honestly tell you how much it has changed my life.”
Programs such as the Access Project are not cheap, which is one reason they are rare. Tuition and fees run about $35,000 a year at Hamilton, and the program’s annual budget is between $250,000 and $500,000, Adair said.
In 2005, about 5.1 million people received monthly welfare payments from TANF and similar state programs, a 60 percent drop from a decade before.
But other government programs grew, offsetting the declines.
About 44 million people — nearly one in six in the country — relied on government services for the poor in 2003, according to the most recent statistics compiled by the Census Bureau. That compares with about 39 million in 1996.
Also, the number of people getting government aid continues to increase, according to more recent enrollment figures from individual programs.
Medicaid rolls alone topped 45 million people in 2005, pushed up in part by rising health care costs and fewer employers offering benefits. Nearly 26 million people a month received food stamps that year.
Cash welfare recipients, by comparison, peaked at 14.2 million people in 1994.
There is much debate over whether those leaving welfare for work should be offered more opportunities for training and education, so they do not have to settle for low-paying jobs that keep them dependent on government programs.
“We said get a job, any job,” said Rep. Jim McDermott, chairman of the House subcommittee that oversees welfare issues. “And now we expect them to be making it on these minimum-wage jobs.”
McDermott, D-Wash., said stricter work requirements enacted last year, when Congress renewed the welfare overhaul law, will make it even more difficult for welfare recipients to get sufficient training to land good-paying jobs.
But people who support the welfare changes say former recipients often fare better economically if they start working, even in low-paying jobs, before entering education programs.
“What many people on TANF need first is the confidence that they can succeed in the workplace and to develop the habits of work,” said Wade Horn, the Bush administration’s point man on welfare overhaul.
“Also, many TANF recipients didn’t have a lot of success in the classroom,” Horn said. “If you want to improve the confidence of a TANF recipient, putting them in the classroom, where they failed in the past, that is not likely to increase their confidence.”
Horn noted that employment among poor single mothers is up and child poverty rates are down since the welfare changes in 1996, though the numbers have worsened since the start of the decade.
Horn, however, said he would like to see local welfare agencies provide more education and training to people who have already moved from welfare to work.
“I think more attention has to be paid to helping those families move up the income scale, increasing their independence of other government welfare programs,” Horn said.
“The true goal of welfare to work programs should be self-sufficiency.”
———
Now isn’t it interesting that during the Clinton administration there were more moving up than during Bush, Reagan and Bush SR.
If you were really looking at who was lazy, you’d see it’s not the poor.
Pmom it amazes me the lengths you would go to trying to dismiss Christianity. You can ‘What if” all night and it won’t change the facts. A twenty year old story was revived this week and they are trying to say it was the burial place of Jesus. The liberal media are all over it but a pundit on MSNBC today said there is nothing new about the info they are trotting out today. It was disproved in the 80s and is just as scurlious today.
Me thinks thou doust protest to much. What could be behind this search of yours?
Evangelical Christians have a built-in mechanism for people that disagree with their narrow version of the Bible, they simply denounce the person asking a simple question about the Bible as an unbeliever and they will feel sorry for their immortal soul. After all, it is the unbeliever who is going to Hell and not the evangelical.
This makes the Evangelicals a member of a special club and so it makes them feel superior to others. Everything evangelicals do and say is based on the premise ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’. Haven’t you heard evangelicals state that they worship the one true God?
I know these things because I went to a Fundamental Baptist College in the mid 1970’s. I knew Jerry Falwell when he first got started in the ministry – before his millions of dollars turned his head.
But I also know these evangelicals can turn on a person like a viper and be the most hateful, rudest and downright meanest person on the face of the Earth – and all in the name of God.
ksgrm – I favor day visits t the Mosque. Also to a Synagogue, cathedral, etc etc etc. This teaches ABOUT various religions. That is a bit different from ‘pushing’ a religion.
I realize that it can be a fine line but the more we know about each other the better.
“you are not a nice person.”
You are correct, Grandma from Hell, I am not a nice person when people like you discriminate against people that cause you absolutely no harm.
But, Germie, I have a new nic for you…
Flounder…………. after the character from Animal House.
Programming alert: ANYONE CONCERNED ABOUT OUR IRAQ VETERANS! Tonight at 10 PM Channel 12 is doing a story about a returning Iraq veteran finding his mortgage doubled. I don’t know any more detail than that but intend to watch. I urge others to join me.
This article is the perfect example of how this blog started out today. Education. That is the answer. Our state board of education needs to get off the evolution debate and actually do something that will help more kids finish school, encourage them to go on to college and equip them to apply for and get a good job with benefits.
I didn’t draw the same conclusions you did from this article but it is interesting that all of these programs have expanded under Bush while the welfare rolls were declining under Clinton.
I know there are very valid reasons for some people to be on public assistance. That will always be the case. What I also know is that there are people drawing assistance that are very capable of working and taking care of themselves. This will probably always be the case also.
Education is where its at. If we instill the pride of self reliance in kids they will succeed. We can’t do this by always providing crutches.
To discriminate is not the same as hate! Throwing around words like rocks is hate!
Roscoe, go Cheney yourself.
I believe in God. However, I also believe (somewhat) in Science. God is the explanation for the afterlife, the heavens, and the ghosts in my house. Science is the explanation for why water expands as it freezes. There is a necessity for both.
However, Intelligent Design aka Creationism is not science, it is an explanation for a gap in science. Science is, and will always be, the best possible explanation based on empirical (we have experienced/uncovered it) evidence, while religion serves to explain that which cannot be served by empirical evidence. While ID may be a good theological answer to the questions left remaining by creationism, it is not science because it lacks the scientific method. It is not based upon that which can be seen, touched, felt, and experienced, it is based on the notion that since things are so complex that we cannot explain them fully that there must be something intangible beyond them.
I do not deny the possibility that even our chain of evolution as we know it was set into motion by some creator, but before I accept that as scientific fact, I need empricial proof of God. Until then, I accept God as an explanation for my soul, and evolution as an explanation for the origin of the vessel.
The Holy Bible is the only source for eternal truth. When you reject the Word of God you reject God and damn yourself.
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.
So it’s group prayer at the blog now? Interesting…
Nah, I’d rather say the following prayer:Pater Noster; qui es in cœlis, sanctificetur nomen tuum; adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua sicut in cœlo at in terra. Etc.
Outlander,My apology to you. I was only setting forth some discourse, nothing more. I typed and posted before I saw you bowing out of the discussion.
(Not necessarily for Outlander),I think it was Kev on another thread that spoke of “facts” and “logic”. Why is it that if we use both of those when it comes to the Bible, we’re called anti-Christian?
To make it plain and simple, those two words are the best reasons why ID/Creationism should not be taught as a science. How simple is that?
ksgrm,I would think that if your (a relative term) children or grandchildren were solid in their faith, visiting a building of another religion would do them no harm. Children should learn that religious customs have many things in common, yet many things different. Learning about other religions is a good way to teach children tolerance and acceptance. Isn’t that what we could all do with a lot more of?
Speaking of Hell…
Does anyone know how many religions incorporate Hell in their teachings? Or something similar?
Which kind of Hell? The Fiery Abyss, or the Frozen Wasteland ala Dante?
ID CASE ConclusionThe proper application of both the endorsement and Lemon tests to the facts of this case makes it abundantly clear that the Board’s ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause. In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents.Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption, which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs’ scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator.To be sure, Darwin’s theory of evolution is imperfect. However, the fact that a scientific theory cannot yet render an explanation on every point should not be used as a pretext to thrust an untestable alternative hypothesis grounded in religion into the science classroom or to misrepresent well-established scientific propositions.The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the Board who voted for the ID Policy. It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public, would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real purpose behind the ID Policy.With that said, we do not question that many of the leading advocates of ID have bona fide and deeply held beliefs, which drive their scholarly endeavors. Nor do we controvert that ID should continue to be studied, debated, and discussed. As stated, our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science classroom. Those who disagree with our holding will likely mark it as the product of an activist judge. If so, they will have erred as this is manifestly not an activist Court. Rather, this case came to us as the result of the activism of an ill-informed faction on a school board, aided by a national public interest law firm eager to find a constitutional test case on ID, who in combination drove the Board to adopt an imprudent and ultimately unconstitutional policy. The breathtaking inanity of the Board’s decision is evident when considered against the factual backdrop which has now been fully revealed through this trial. The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources.To preserve the separation of church and state mandated by theEstablishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and Art. I, § 3 of the Pennsylvania Constitution, we will enter an order permanently enjoining Defendants from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area School District, from requiring teachers to denigrate or disparage the scientific theory of evolution, and from requiring teachers to refer to a religious, alternative theory known as ID. We will also issue a declaratory judgment that Plaintiffs’ rights under the Constitutions of the United States and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania have been violated by Defendants’ actions. Defendants’ actions in violation of Plaintiffs’ civil rights as guaranteed to them by the Constitution of the United States and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 subject Defendants to liability with respect to injunctive and declaratory relief, but also for nominal damages and the reasonable value of Plaintiffs’ attorneys’ services and costs incurred in vindicating Plaintiffs’ constitutional rights.
Oh lookie! Now the creationists even have their own “dictionary”.
Just like wikipedia, but with their”facts”.
http://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2007/02/conservative-rival-for-wikipedia.html
HA! Even funnier….they call it…wait for it…..CONSERVAPEDIA.
That’s it. Now somebody’s gotta start a LIBAPEDIA.
I checked CONSERVAPEDIA’s rantings against the real WIKIPEDIA. My, it’s downright hilarious, with a slight tinge of childish fascism, most notably in the insistence of “American” spelling. Well, at least they can’t insist on the correct pronunciation, e.g., New England vs. Southern.
And something about the army of god.Seems they already are ‘at war’.And killing is no problem for these ‘christians’.
http://www.christiangallery.com/aog.html
Roo ha, if you attempt to correct their hilarious lies, THEY BAN YOUR IP ADDY.
Ask Josh over here:http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/2007/02/fame_or_the_company_we_keep.php
Any of you eeeevil libs know about “google bombing”?Wouldn’t it be appropriate for conservapedia?
I thought a while ago I saw a survey about how more people living in democracies approve attacks targetting civilians (when it is deemed as necessary) than some Muslim countries. I wonder if it’s because more of them have actually come face-to-face with attacks against their own civilain populations. If only I could find the article again…
But this is straying too far off course…
“There is a big debate in the science world about this because most think that parents if given a choice would choose to change their sexual orientation before birth if it were possible. That bothers a lot of gays.”
WTF?
must be the same “big debate” in the science world about evolution.
There is no “debate” in the science world. There are only the fundies who insist we all drink their brand of kookaide.
Teach the controversy anyone? Jesus wept. That is right out of the discovery institue playbook.
Grandma from hell is reason number one for the posts under the visioneering thread that note Wichita is the bigotry capital of the midwest.
Yeah. How’s that working for you all?
And.. btw, WHEN is the little ayatollah fox going to pay his property taxes?
You know, render unto Ceasar and all that biblical stuff.
A GREAT example of how evangelicals pick and choose among bible passages they agree to obey. But no one questions them when they are in open defiance of certain passages?
Maybe this is why germie, the grandma from hell, and the little ayatollah fox have their panties in a knot?
The title of the article says that this is expected to be a banner year for gay rights.
Everywhere but kansas of course!
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2007/02/26/1
Oh good grief, another brand of ‘my God is better than your God and you’re going to hell” BS.
Thanks Rev, but ya know, if your God is the true God, I’d rather live eternity in Hell. Thanks.
By the way KFG, did you see that Cuba is more pro-gay than the USA?
Now how dang sad is that.
Save your keyboard Rev. These are the brownshirt acolytes of a Nazi newspaper. This is the second Christian bashing thread in one day.
From the Holocaust at Tiller’s abortuary to the corrupt officials who place him above the law to this sleazy hateful rag, Wichita is Auschwitz West.
Attention: Stephen Colbert! Factiness© is now mainstream!
Angry Ben, isn’t it copyright infringement to be using the mainstream coalition’s name in your email?
oh and…you’re a whackjob.
WTF? Where did this whackjob Ben guy come from?
Talk about out there in far right field, over the fence, about a mile away…
Its people like him that scare me… Its people like him that start violent protests… Its people like him that is of the mentality of “my way or the highway”…
Its people like him that make me wish we had street corner suicide booths…
GB has been a resident troll for some time.Nobody reads IT’s crap because they know it’s a whacko troll.
Probly supports clinic bombing.Sicko.
The Bible is only the source of the Word of God if the one reading it believes it to be so. When will these fundamental Christians get that through their heads?
And if their interpretation of Heaven is to be with them and the rest of their kind, then that would definitely not be Heaven to me.
All the religions in the world have their own interpretations and if you choose to believe in Christianity – then knock yourself out. If you choose to believe in Buddhism – then knock yourself out. Isn’t this America where freedom of religion is a guaranteed right? Sometimes that freedom of religion is translated to freedom from religion; and if that’s the case – then knock yourself out.
“Sometimes that freedom of religion is translated to freedom from religion; and if that’s the case – then knock yourself out.”
Not in Kansas. Freedom FROM religion is something we can only dream about here. Kansas–All evangelicals, all the time.
How’s that working for our state, btw? I guess we are now bleeding kansas ’cause we bleed population to the other states.
Looks like lots of folks, particularly young folks, are voting with their feet. And they aint voting for bible thumpin’ ks.
ksfg, “Looks like lots of folks, particularly young folks, are voting with their feet. And they aint voting for bible thumpin’ ks.” aptly describes both daughters, neither of whom I expect to see in this state on a permanent basis once each finishes her education.
As far as Kansas goes……it is what ya’ make it.
Four walls,two windows.
Prison or castle?Only you can decide.
Young people are seeds in the wind! We nurture them to adulthood! If their will is resistant to the wisdom of their parents and elders, then they shall only reap the wind!
“reap the wind!”
Clean electricity – put up wind turbines and reap the wind. Good idea Roscoe!
Kansas is an oasis of 1950’s sensibility in a world gone mad. Kansas is the type of place where you can raise your children in a environment where Jesus is king and gays, atheists and minorities are kept in their proper place. If the young people don’t like it, they can leave. We don’t need their liberal attitudes polluting our theocratic uptopia anyway.
What can one say here? Name calling on both sides, which is why I almost always hate political “discussions”, I mean nothing like ad hominem(I think that’s spelled right) attacks.
Anyway, a nutshell. Evolution happens. I accept that fact, I don’t think it is macro evolution, and we didn’t come from monkeys. Micro evolution, is more what I subscribe to because, small changes do occur and over time those small changes can seem to be “large changes.” Seems to be what happens with math, sum up enough changes and you do get a large number, why not with evolution? But those large changes aren’t going to be seen in any of our lifetimes, and looking back millions of years is looking back through a very large number of small changes.
Gays and lesbians, I read earlier in this post, and I don’t have the article point to any longer. I disagree with their lifestyle, I’m not going to judge them. Marriage can be defined as being between a man and a woman, but afford the ‘alternative’ at the least civil unions. However, in the article I read, and it is the most recent one about it, the study about gays and lesbians is more along the lines of the mothers immune system attacking the baby potentially causing the gay/lesbian. However, there doesn’t appear to be any gene associated with it. That is a very paraphrased version of the article. However, I can not see one who accepts to follow a particular religion that forbids homosexual practice participating then in homosexual activity.
Teaching intelligent design in school. I said in another blog, I don’t have a problem with it if it is kept religion agnostic. But in biology? No, perhaps in a philosophy class.
My views? Biased as usual, I am Catholic. I do practice my faith as generally the morals taught are good. Anyway, my two cents.
That wasn’t well written was it. I think what I need to do before I post is write this in a different editor, then post it. Or at least read it before I post it. Oh well.
Danny good comments. You made very good pts bout ID and evolution. I would add the darwinism should be taught along side ID in philosophy
Mike–
That was way too subtle. I got it, but a lot of the rapture right are not even going to notice you were totally slamming them . . .
They’re going to AGREE with you.
Mike
You’re pulling our chain right?
OK… From Gay/Lesbian rights issues, to Evolution/ID issues, to Freedom of Religion(or freedom from), a whole lot (too much) of what I read here is just plain and simple BIGOTRY… and perhaps a little of that on both sides…
Evolution is SCIENCE based… It is a THEORY… meaning open for discussion based on SCIENCE…
ID is a philosophical, NON-SCIENCE based, religion-biased “idea” — and if taught at ALL, should be in a comparative religions, or philosophy class room.
Gay/Lesbian rights — Neocons, get over it… Gay/Lesbian people have been around since BEFORE Christianity has come along to disciminate, and publicly degrade those who are Gay/Lesbian…
BTW, the concept of Marriage between one man/one woman, is a RELIGIOUS BASED idea… However, not even the BIBLE limits the number of wives a man can have, except for Bishops and Deacons… who are to have only one wife…
The whole offensive against Gay marriage is that it somehow effects the family values of heterosexual marriage??? HOW IN THE HELL CAN GAY MARRIAGE EFFECT SOMETHING THAT IS NOT THREATENED BY THE UNION OF TWO PEOPLE OF THE SAME SEX??? Can you neocons say PULL YOUR HEADS OUT??
NOW… if MY religious values clash with those of another, Do I have the right in THIS nation to legally (or even morally) HOLD BACK THE RELIGIOUS IDEAS OF ANOTHER??? I think NOT!!
And again, for you neocons, Can you say MOONIES??? If not, then you all better quit basing so much of your so-called “news” on the Washington Times, owned by none other than Sun Myung Moon… That’s right, founder of the Moonies, ALA The Unification Church…
So, can you neocons say: PULL YOUR HEADS OUT??? Ohh, excuse me, if you did that, you would see LIGHT!!!
Dont hold back Chas tell us how you really feel!
Regarding ID and E, I agree that it can be discussed. Especially the definition of what the word evolution means. That is the only way the debate will get anywhere by people, to use your words, pulling their heads out!
As fas as Gay marriage, I know some ppl argue againist it for economical benefits and other social factors, not just based on the affect on heterosexual marraige. Marriage itself doesnt seem to be too successful for heterosexuals as the divorce rate is at crazy levels. Maybe marriage isnt the best idea for heterosexuals or homosexuals.
Who are these “moonies” you speak about?