“Too many teachers are worried about No Child Left Behind, that it is sucking the joy out of teaching,” Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., told a gathering of school superintendents from northeast Kansas Friday.
It’s also sucking the joy out of learning. An Eagle news article Sunday on why so many boys are underachieving noted that some students are so tired of all the testing and tedious drills that they no longer care how they do on the tests.
Then there is the law’s other problem: Its 100 percent proficiency requirement is statistically impossible. So we are driving away teachers and students in pursuit of an unattainable standard.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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35 Comments
“Then there is the law’s other problem: Its 100 percent proficiency requirement is statistically impossible.”
Only the brain dead would think this goal is attainable. It was Bush’s law though, wasn’t it?
Stephen Davis,
Indeed it was: testing, testing, testing. Benchmarks. Assessment.
None of which has much to do with actual learning, but all of which has to do with the ‘look busy!’, market-modelled approach to education pushed by Bush and the Right-Wing think tanks who love him.
Thinkers? We don’t need no stinking thinkers! We need drones who perform on command. And that’s what “No Child” is set up to create.
I hated school, still to this day i still do…
Fortunately im still young enough to remember my days in school and remember fondly the yearly CAT tests that we took up through middle school. Those weren’t too bad, we didn’t think that it was a huge deal. Than everything changed. Starting in I think middle school, the mentality changed regarding those tests. We started taking tests twice a year, than eventually by my high school years, we had tests three or four times a year.
I have a friend who is a band teacher. She has to prove in her lesson plans how she incorporates Math, English and some type of Science into every class period. Its ridiculous, this is band. This adds hours of work onto her already cramped schedule and very low budget. She spends many hours at home at nights working on new ideas to try to fulfill BS requirements. The students also realize this, they don’t have as much fun because of these idiotic requirements.
What ever happened to taking pud classes to skate by?
I believe NCLB was introduce by Sen. Ted Kennedy and written as a bipartisan effort. It was a response to the public outcry for schools to be held more accountable. There is no doubt it is doing just that. Can it be improve? Yes, but let us do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. First, fully fund it, second adjust the goals, and third give control of our schools back to the local community.
Hey Pat!, now you care about education of Kansas children? Now you critize a Bush plan? Now you come to Kansas to speak to just anyone?Gee Pat, you must be running for re-election. I see you are starting early because you know you’re in trouble. All those years you were Bush’s guy, covering up for him, but the elections last fall scared the bejeezes out of you, right, Pat?
I personally like the idea of privatizing all schools making them compete for students by providing the best educations… I would still have some minimum standard tests to recieve funding, but not what is out there now. I think we are hurting our children more than helping. Kids need to feel free to play and think and problem solve, not memerize crap to put on a test.
I’m not in favor of mandatory eduction beyond the 5th grade. That seems to be the age that the young people decide that they want an education and a better life than they have known; or they want to deal drugs, get a flashy grill and a pimp mobile. Forcing them to be somewhere they do not want to be (school) accomplishes nothing, except to disrupt and hinder the students who want to get an education. It punishes the truly innocent victims. Do we really give a damn whether Inmate #136633 has completed the 5th grade or the 9th or the 10th before they dropped out?
The system is set up though, that the amount of Federal money is based on “head count”. A “gang banger” commands the same amount as a National Merit candidate to the district, and that’s the bottom line — what a totally ridiculous equation. “No child left behind” ignores the fact that the losers choose to “stay behind” — the winners should not have an artificial unnecessary obstacle to contend with in addition to the real challenges.
rm
Who died and made you a judge?
Got any kids in school do ya?
“…losers choose to stay behind..”
Ya know? Even the most moderate Republican like yourself occasionally slips into asshole mode.
My son is 12. He likes school. He wants to go everyday. He has never once tried to play sick.
Oh but he can’t pass the standardized tests! SO he has been pigeonholed since he was 5 as “special ed”.
And it is attitudes just like yours that caused it.
rm
I agree to a point… I agree that the “system” is flawed in that it doesn’t promote talented children further and faster in school, but i do think that the only way that the society can continue to function in a positive direction is for mandatory education. You can’t get a real job without having a high school diploma, hell most places won’t even take a GED any more.
High school should be a time of training workers for the work force. If you teach a slacker like me a profession in high school, even a gang banger, they will be twice as valuable. Remember, the best way to cut crime is to provide opportunities.
I even think in todays society, the best way to “improve” the lower classes is to provide free or really really discounted associates degree, maybe even a bachelors.
JR, reading rm’s post to which you responded at 10:06, I think your son isn’t one he would argue should be “left behind” for the reasons you post.
As you likely know, I abhor NCLB; there are many reasons for this, earlier posted. However, we do need to have some way to adjudge accountability; this is the goal of NCLB, the methods used “suck”.
I read the link from which anonymous posted about the less than stellar performance on NAEP; thus, the need for accountability. Grades increasing, but overall knowledge not? Something’s funny there. Now, it may be argued that NAEP may not be an accurate assessment of what high school students are to learn; I am not familiar therewith. But, given its duration as a “benchmark”, I suspect it is.
From the same link; the number of students taking “college prep” courses has increased; but the number taking the ultimate level course, say AP, college courses, etc., has decreased. Therein lies the problem.
The issues I have seen is a flat out resistance among parents to their students being given an academic challenge through the use of homework, and protesting grades, to identify two areas. So, parents need to suck it up, too, and perhaps determine that academics are more important than extracurricular activities.
JR: (1) No, I longer have kids in school. They’ve grown up. (2) I am not talking about special needs children, JR. I’m talking about the ones that show up only because that’s where the “market” is — who stand around in the halls flashing “gang signs” — who don’t go to class unless forced to, and to show their defiance, disrupt the whole class making learning impossible for those who want to learn.
Tony: If you educate a dope dealer, all you’ve accomplished is that he can streamline his operation, sell more dope, make more money and count change faster.
Tony, maybe you have a point. They’ve “dumbed down” education so deeply that they might as well give it away. It’s not worth the parchment it’s written on anymore anyway.
RM
lol… “he can streamline his operation, sell more dope, make more money and count change faster”
Well, at least its a skill… ;-)
My point though is that the VAST majority of people in school aren’t drug dealers or violent offenders yet. If you give the option as say a freshman of two “learning tracks” that you can take, say the college bound tract or the profession (blue collar) tract. The collage bound tract would teach all of the Maths, Sciences, Englishes and other classes required for College. Perhaps even offer college level classes. The ones that want to go down the profession tract would get Vo-Tech type training from everything from Auto Mechanics to Computer Repair Techs to Rivet Runners. The point is to graduate them from high school with a useable skill, rather than dumping them out on the streets to fend for themselves.
Tony, the only problem with your plan is that here in the U.S., we don’t track like that anymore; and under the prescriptions of NCLB, with the attendant issues of AYP, etc., there isn’t a way to carry it off. Now, there are some excellent work-related programs at some of the comprehensive high schools here in Wichita; but, due to the need for AYP, etc., those students must still take the English, Science, Math, etc. courses for the purposes of being “assessed”.
What a high school education should be, IMHO, is preparation for post-secondary learning, whether college; vo-tech; military, whatever the choice. To achieve this, high schools need to educate the students to be able to think critically; communicate clearly, both orally and in writing; to master the basics of algebra, at least (necessary for proper spreadsheet creation); have a foundation in U.S. and World History, to understand how we, as a nation, got to where we are, and to provide a basic understanding of the rest of the world; have a foundation to understand and appreciate art and music; and to have a foundation in science and the scientific method. I’m sure I left something out, but that’s a start.
I don’t disagree with that at all, Tony. But here’s the problem. Perfect example, right there in DooDah. For years, beginning at East High, then expanding to North, Wichita had one of the premier Vo-Tech Programs in the United States. Then, they got some woman in there, who decided, come hell or high water, it was going to become a college. I truly do not know whether she finally prevailed upon changing anyones’ minds, or they just got so tired of her bullshit, they just caved in.
The point you and I are both making is that not everyone is destined or cut out to attend college. And, if everybody goes to college, who the hell is going to build the houses, repair the wiring or fix the plumbing, empty the septic tanks, wash the cars, and so on? Yes, I want to give every child a “leg up” toward a better life, but, if they don’t want to accept it, (indeed, infringe on the rights of those who do), then to hell with them. Natural selection will take care of it, sooner or later, they’ll find themselves on the wrong end of a bullet, locked up forever, or strapped to a gurney.
And somebody, Sean, I think, was whining about “six-figure homes” on the Kolb thread yesterday — there’s a hell of a lot of plumbers and electricians living out there in those “six-figure homes”. Anybody who doesn’t believe me, just give one a call and get your checkbook out! :)
I see it’s time to rail against government education again. . . .
I certainly favor any kind of market-based approach. Government schools force people to participate and then choose what it is you should learn. Bureaucrats, who by monopoly are insulated from outside forces, should not make those decisions.
Yes, proud teacher, the NCLB process needs reformed and fully funded. I disagree with local control of schools to a great extent; with the mobility of society, there should be a national standard of achievement represented by a high school diploma. I am familiar with the canards concerning government operation of anything, but I am of the very strong opinion that: 1) there should be a nationally imposed high school curriculum; 2) there should be a nationally imposed number of credits, say 25, for graduation; 3) there should be a “high stakes” exit exam; and 4) there should be a 2.0 GPA on a 4.0 scale for all high school work, all as a condition precedent for earning a high school diploma.
With school funding in Kansas, and other states about which I have read, coming from the state, there is, in fact, no true local control anyway. Some funding also comes from the federal level, but not in the amounts it should. Let’s cut out the pretense, recognize reality, and go from there.
One thing I would do to hold students more accountable would be a rule concerning eligibility to participate in extracurricular activities, requiring a 2.0 on a 4.0 GPA in the mandatory “core” courses. With computers, etc., this could be and should be computed weekly, with eligibility determined weekly. If a student is ineligible, he/she does not participate in practices, rehearsals, performances, games, etc., until the student once again attains eligibility. The rule should be state-wide; and, as a further condition, the student must have scored “proficient” or above on the latest State Assessments he/she has taken. I am one who doesn’t believe anyone who cannot obtain at least a “C” average should be participating in any extracurricular events.
I believe that an educated public is a cornerstone to true national security, and resources should be expended on education appropriately.
Those of you favoring private-run schools have never worked for a big corporation. I used to think that would be the ticket. But the state of big business today has become all about the almighty $$. You would end up with bad, good, very good, elite and the elitest of the the elite, etc.. Each costing more and more $$. Seeing a wider gap continuing between the rich and the poor?? Wondering where all the good teachers and the best education would be? Well, that may not be the case entirely as the rich good-ole-boy network “top tier elite academy” school will graduate Jonathan the III regardless that little johnny can’t pour urea from a boot. He’ll then be the next CEO at Goldman Sachs perhaps……..If there is one thing we should expect from our government it should be a quality education for all.
VT - I agree with 2.0/4.0 (actually I would go with 2.5/4.0) but not determine weekly. I think that is too much paperwork/reporting for the teachers. Maybe monthly?
Ben, there are many software products in use in the schools that the teachers use as a gradebook anyway; so, if the teacher is doing his/her grading, etc., in a timely fashion, the numerical prestidigitation needed can be efficiently performed, and reports generated with little additional impact; in fact, put the athletic director or coaches in charge of pulling the data and preparing the reports; just don’t let them have administrative access to change anything once it’s posted.
Darn it. “…put the athletic director, the activities director, the coaches, the conductor….” I shorthanded it and it sounded like I was picking on the athletes solely; not my intent.
Ben, VT is right… Software now instantly averages grades and can easily be setup to do the type of reporting VT is talking about…
I have to say one thing about a 2.0 GPA… I slept through High School, I had over 100 tardy’s in my senior year, I missed the equivalent of a month worth of classes and I still passed with a average of 3.2 I think… I mean come on… To make a 2.0, someone has to work really hard at achieving that low of a score.
Note: Proud Teacher and ProudMan are not the same person.
Tony, you’re right about the GPA; that’s why I set the bar so low. Ben may, in fact, be correct given grade inflation; a 2.5 on a 4.0 might be better.
Vaughn,I disagree, anytime we talk of nationalizing anything it scares me. When things are controlled on the local level those in charge seem more responsive to the people. Our founding father knew this and tried to set up our government so that the states had more power than the federal government.
The other reason I fear national control of education is the “hand that rocks the cradle rules the rule.” If we are to keep the great diversity of this country, we must allow a divers education system, which teaches the local values of the different parts of this country. As a Midwestern, I would not want the culture of either coast influencing my children and I know that is true of individuals on the coast. They do not agree with the values of the Midwest.
I do agree a sound education system is necessary if our country is to survive. We need a population that not only has the skills of a good work force but also individuals who can think for themselves to ensure liberties.
Proud Teacher, I fully expected you to disagree with me on the national part; almost everyone does. In light of societal mobility, however, do we not need some “standard” as to what a high school diploma is/represents, other than “seat time”?
It is, to me, so important that we provide a sound educational system. I am a product of public education; I can tell you my K-12 experience was dramatically inferior in scope and depth compared to many I met as a freshman at KU, even back in 1968. It’s just too important to leave it to the locals anymore, IMHO. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
I am not gonna cry too much for teachers. If they teach and maintain order in the classroom, they are doing their jobs and, while the pay is not great, it is not too bad for an 8 month a year gig.
All my teachers at East were great but some I had in middle school just didn’t give a shit about anything.
Kev: “If they teach and maintain order…..”. Why should they have to maintain order? Shouldn’t the students have the self-respect and the respect for the teacher to maintain their own order, at least most of the time? We did — but that was 50 years ago. But it goes to what I was talking about this morning. If they don’t want to be there, if they don’t want to learn, if they just want disrupt the classes where the students who want to learn don’t need any more distractions, then get them out of the way.
Maybe instead of no child left behind the motto should be every child will learn to read. My youngest child was in 6th grade before I he was diaganose (by an outside psychologist) as having dsylexia (a medical conditon according to Kansas BOE), ADD (which is not a medical condition but a learning disorder according to Kansas BOE) and read at a 3rd grade level. His teachers could not believe it because their testing showed he read at an 6th grade level and they were considering ending his requirment for the chapter one reading program (had been in since Kindergarten). Since he had ADD he qualified for special education with yearly evaluations. They could not reteach him reading skills (they just don’t do that, they teach comprehension skills instead). I enrolled him at my expence (very costly I might add) at Sylvan learning center. Where he actaually learned to read well enough to graduate high school. Although I will admit if it had not been for special education my son would have dropped out of school in his Senior year. If your in special ed (at least in Newton) you can not drop out of school. The only way out is either you graduate or you turn 22 ( I think that is the age.) if by some way every child can be taught to read by say 4th grade, then maybe some the kids will get turned on to education insted of being disruptive. Maybe we can turn some wanna-be gangbanger/drug dealers into useful citizens (I know wishfull thinking). Just my two cents.
Kev,
its a ten month a year gig and we’ve never done it for the pay. try teaching middle schoolers, that is definitely a calling
Hawkeye: From my limited experience, only a real dyed-in-the-wool masochist would teach middle school for the money! The whips and chains are for the wimps!
I hate to agree with anything written on the opinion pages of this site or the paper itself but this is the exception that makes the rule.
My children are being taught to pass whatever tests they have to pass. Real education is being tossed out the window in favor of arbitrary test that only prove how well children are at rote learning. It is more difficult to teach children how to analyze a problem, or how to think through a situation. This can’t be measured so it’s not important.
I am also concerned that we are force feeding too much information onto children who are not mentally or psychologically ready for the sheer amount of “data” they are expected to retain. My sophomore is taking Geometry and learning about radicals, which is something 30 years ago we didn’t get until Trig or Calculus.
Too much, too soon is worse than not enough. It is no wonder our young people are dropping out. The pressure is insane. Many high schoolers have left their adolescence behind and we wonder why they are engaging in risky adult behavior. If they are expected to learn like adults, act like adults and think like adults, they feel they should be allowed to act like them.
I’m sure there are people who are surprised at this, but no one with an ounce of common sense should be!
Drug dealers are just good capitalist. Seeing a market need and addressing it. Something the repukes should admire.
For those who teach/work in middle school; there’s a special place for you in the hereafter. As an observer (parent/spouse) of middle school and those who staff the same, I can tell you this: I’d last 30 seconds in a classroom as a teacher; 15 seconds as an administrator.