State lawmakers who’d like to give their elderly constituents a break, via a constitutional amendment to cap future property-tax increases on senior citizens, are learning that doing so is more complicated and costly than it sounds. State and local officials fret about the hit that revenues would take and warn it would force increases in other taxes. The break would disproportionately benefit seniors in high-dollar real-estate markets. Then there was this worthy point from Randall Allen, executive director of the Kansas Association of Counties: “We would argue that being 65 and older does not equate to be unable to pay property taxes.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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55 Comments
Don’t forget Terry Fox. He hasn’t paid over $1000 in property tax and he needs a break too.
This is a real issue. The problem lies in the way taxes are assessed – by the parcel of property – NOT by individual income, or lack thereof.
There is a good reason for reducing taxes (or any expense’s) for the elderly who live in their own homes – it prolongs admission into nursing homes, and pushes back their dependence solely upon the State for survival.
The elderly have paid their proverbial dues – it’s time to show them a little respect while benefiting the taxpayer. With inflation – the money the elderly have saved disappears very quickly.
Not for all, but for the vast majority, there is no increase coming in – and yet their property values (in most instances) are going up and up and up.
Their dollars just are not worth what they were – when they invested and squirreled them away.
But a better solution – better than providing rebates, is to assess the property at the level it was when the person was last earning an income. And that’s not hard, at all. All the data is on the books.
For instance, an eighty year old man who lived in a house would be assessed at the rate his property was valued at – in 1992, the last year he earned an income.
For a sixty eight year old man – the assessment would be from 2004, and so on.
The property would still be on the books at the current value – so there would be no discrepancy when it sold to a new owner.
The caveat would be those who are still actively drawing an income. If an eighty year old has millions invested in stocks – the dividends paid will make him ineligible for the roll-back assessment.
I know that sounds like a LOT of red tape – but it actually isn’t. We all have to pay our property taxes, anyway, and a simple slip of paper from our State Income Tax form is easily enclosed with our property tax statement – or taken in person to the Courthouse when it’s time to pay up.
The computers are already set up to read historical assessments – so the additional workload would be slim.
We really DO need to start looking at ways of keeping the elderly in their homes longer. The Baby Boomers are entering retirement and will occupy a MASSIVE proportion of the population in the next twenty to forty years.
The burden upon the taxpayer should we not make arrangements to encourage non-premature admission into nursing home facilities will run in the BILLIONS!
The details need to be ironed out, obviously. but we need to begin to address this situation.
Although I do agree to give property tax relief to those who need it, but before we start blanketing Seniors with so much free stuff and tax relief, we do have to consider that Senior Citizens are the wealthy demographic group in our country.
Many, if not most, Senior Citizens are often times better off than their own children and grown up grandchildren. But I understand they are also a very large voting group and they donate to campaigns, so they get what they want.
WE WOULDN’T STOP PAYING TAXES. JUST FREEZE WHEN WE REACH 65
Joe – I’m not advocating anything ‘free.’
And I agree that among the elderly are the most wealthy persons in our nation – but not ALL elderly, so they can’t all be judged by that criteria.
I work in development and design for assisted living, retirement and empty-nester homes. My husband and I own a contracting company and have been concentrating on this branch of housing for quite a while.WE also do work in conjunction with nursing homes, so I get to see the situation first hand.
The typical nursing home costs approx $130 a day. Even if a resident has sold their home, cashed in their investments and handed the nursing home all their financial assets (which is required) they often use up the capital pretty quickly.
The kicker is – after that money is gone – the home doesn’t turn them out on the street. Instead State funding starts to pay.
I’m not exaggerating when I say allowing the elderly to stay in their own homes longer – could translate into BILLIONS of dollars of savings down the road.
These are folks who worked all their lives, paid their taxes, fought for this country and educated our kids. These are not deadbeats by any stretch of the imagination and they deserve our respect. If anyone has earned it -they have.
Do some of them have more money than I do? Assuredly so, but some have much less. I still have decades of earning power – they are done bringing home the bacon.
Many of our clients are elderly and cannot even afford general repairs (at our wages) to their personal homes. For those folks we take payments in cookies. And let me tell you – they’re damned good!
But, I digress.
These folks don’t have the finances to pay a nursing home – and they don’t want to go. Your taxes WILL pay for them if they must leave their homes.
That cost is going to be MUCH higher than allowing them to pay a frozen property tax rate. The longer they are independent, the healthier they will be, also.
Seriously, I’ve been dealing with this for many years and the handwriting is on the wall. We need to implement some changes now – if we don’t want the astronomical expense of the retiring Boomers landing on us.
I don’t know the math equivalency but I suggest doing away with sales tax on food and other basics. This would help all people of less means and make the sales tax less regressive. Other states are doing this.
GS: And you can get from here to Denver by driving to Philadelphia and coming back, but the efficiency quotient goes to hell in a hand basket. First, you blanket a deduction for people over 65, then start cutting exceptions into it, like people who have planned for their retirement security. So the really smart ones aren’t eligible. You don’t say anything about people who are under 65 and totally disabled. What is the transfer value upon death? It doesn’t sound like a lot of red tape. It is a lot of red tape. What ever happened to less government? The basic idea of property tax relief for seniors is sound. Your methodology is so loaded with going around the barn to get back to the door where you started so you can get inside, it’s simply not workable. How about a simple “sliding scale” percentage credit against toward property taxes based upon age & income. People who are totally and permanently disabled (using the strict Social Security & VA criteria, which tend to be exclusive, rather than inclusive)are deemed to be 65, for the purposes of the credit as of the date they are declared T&PD.
And BTW, people do not go into nursing homes because of property taxes. They go into nursing homes because they cannot care for themselves, even with assistance, such as home health care and “Meals on Wheels” and/or family. A nursing home is the last resort — a place to go and wait to die.
JWink – that is also a good move.
rm6046 – In case you didn’t notice, the original proposal was shot down.
There’s a reason for that – it doesn’t specifically target those who need it the most.
You’re dead wrong about nursing home admissions. Some ARE waiting to die, many others could easily care for themselves if given a little support. They are placed there either by themselves, or family members because living in their own home has become tougher, financially and physically.
Your way – a sliding scale – would involve MUCH more red tape. Local tax appraisers and collectors would need to verify all the data. Plan on hiring a handful more to take care of that. On the other hand historical data is immediately available at the Courthouse. Check and see if you don’t believe me.
I am involved in the industry – I provide homes for retirees. I deal with the elderly and their living situations. I know their wants and needs. I design living quarters that are accessible, affordable and safe for them.
Don’t tell me I don’t know my business.
What are your credentials in this area?
I work in LTC as well and you are both right. Sometimes people come to nursing homes because they can no longer maintain their home but most often it is about not being able to care for themselves physically. However, GS is correct that it would be a lot less expensive for society if we found a way to maintain them in the home. With the boomers on the way it is going to get increasingly more expensive. If we can find a way, and this is just one way, to keep them at home they will be happier and society will benefit. It is difficult to know how much is enough money to save and everyone runs out of money eventually if you live long enough unless you are super rich. I think some people think they will not have to deal with this but either you deal with it because of your parents or yourselves. I keep my mom in her home because it makes her happy. I could put her in the nursing home and let the state pay for her because she is eligible but she would give up and die if I did. I’ve witnessed it happening enough times that I don’t want that for her.
GSheridan
You probably DO know your buisiness. And your work and advocacy for seniors is unexpectedly kind and noted.
But I think you are opening one HUGE can of worms with your apporoach.
Property is property. You cannot assess it a historically noted valuation. That’s a logistical nightmare. It also is wide open to all sorts of potential for abuse and fraud.
That said, I don’t off the top of my head have an answer for this issue.
One way to help seniors and the poorer folks would be to eliminate the sales tax on food.sales tax on food = one pet peeve of many
I don’t know what the best way is but we owe it to our elders to find a way. Nursing home placement is costing this country a lot. It would be worth the time to figure out a way to keep people at home and save ourselves a lot of money.
Exempt those 55 and older from property taxes on their primary residence perhaps? That might work.
It might also encourage young families to reside with elder parents. Not a bad thing.
GS: So, the old folks are put in care homes because they’ve just become a pain in the ass for their kids? Probably, in some cases — kicking and screaming or passively accepting being put out to pasture.
Yeah, a sliding scale would be a real bitch to implement. A percentage scale would have to be established, and the taxpayers would have to include a copy of their tax returns and list their dates of birth. I can imagine the complications that would cause. Random audits and verifications are good enough for the IRS, but not for you — you would have every single one audited and verified?
From what you have said, your business involves building care facilities. You didn’t say anything about operating them or interacting with the elderly occupants on a personal, day-by-day basis. You don’t need a PhD in theology to build a beautiful church, anymore than you need an MD to build a great hospital. They call the credentialed people who design those facilities architects.
My credentials are really quite simple. I used to have clients/partners/friends who were much older than I was. I have an 85 year old mother who still resides in her own home, even though she has been legally blind for many years, and she cared for my father, until his death in 2000, at home. Oh yes, he was a paraplegic from 1971, until the last few years, when he was bedridden 24/7. And now, I’m older than those older clients/partners & friends were back then. Almost all of them are dead now.
With all due respect, assembling “sticks and bricks” lends you credentials for “assembling sticks and bricks”, not geriatrics, psychology of the aging, or health care administration.
And your husband must do all the work, because you seem to spend all of your time ranting and raving about a myriad of things that you seem to consider yourself an expert upon — or maybe you;re actually Paul Rosell in drag, I don’t know?
It’s a tough situation, JR, no matter how we approach it. And I agree there is room for fraud. I would like to think folks are above that – but I know better.
I’m not saying that my plan is perfect -but I think we need to do something, and soon.
Just in my community, the elderly housing (outside of nursing home environments) is astronomically priced. I don’t care that there are a handful of senior who CAN afford that kind of lifestyle – my concerns are for the ones who cannot. They have very few options.
It’s going to be hard no matter which direction we attack it from – but my years in building and real estate have landed me often at the Courthouse, looking for information – or calling them for the same.
The clerks can tell you what the taxes were on a property for any given recorded year. It just seems more fair to me to assess a retiree based upon his/her last earning year. For some – that will still be too high, sadly.
The reason I suggested a slip from the State Dept of Revenue was to protect from fraud. Maybe it wouldn’t work as well as I envision, but that entity is privy to tax records and is likely the most verifiable route.
Even a simple sticker awarded a retiree that could be affixed to their property tax statement when they paid it that listed the year of their ‘eligibility.’
Maybe it wouldn’t work – but I would like to see someone implement something.
There are such things as ‘reverse mortgages that many elderly are not aware of that would allow them to remain in their homes longer. The bank actually pays them each month and it provides them with extra cash for necessities. But, as property values rise – the payments may not keep up with inflation.
Anyway, one of my current projects is a rural retirement subdivision. I’ve run into brick walls at every turn, but so many of our elderly clients express a desire to live in the country. I have to figure out how to do this for them – make it enjoyable – make it affordable – and keep it safe for all by providing access to medical and transportation needs. I’ve learned to steer clear of HUD. They entice with some financing – but their demands will quickly outweigh any original savings.
You would not believe how many wage-earners are anxious to put their parents out of sight – out of mind.
OF course, that’s a whole different ballgame, and has little to do with the proposed bill – but it’s what I’m currently involved in.
Thanks for the kind words. I’m not always as big an ass as I come across. But, then again, sometimes I am.
rm6046 – I do not know who Paul is – but I assure you, I am not he.
I’m not going to try to convince you that I am a geriatrics expert – I’m no such thing. But I have dealt in the world of geriatric patients and the elderly for many, many years, and I’ve taken the time to know them personally. Yes, my husband does a LOT of the work, but I also design, handle the accounting, market the properties, and I am in charge of compliance to the various codes.
I HAVE spent too much time here the past few days, and paid for it by staying up late to finish my work, but I was so darned gleeful to finish the end-of-the-year operations that I felt I deserved it. And I type like lightening. I can whip out a post in nothing flat – albeit a verbose one.
If you disagree with my plan – that’s fine – I hope you will disagree on merit – not because you don’t like my personality.
But – you do bring me back to reality – that I need to buckle down and dedicate more time to my actual duties.
One last thing – I’m interested in hearing from others about ideas for elderly housing. I’ve done a lot of research – but one can never do too much.
So – let’s hear it all – what does your parent/grandparent NEED to allow them to stay in their own home – or at least in an elderly housing situation independently?
Trust me GS, the cost of property taxes, even on a nice home, are far less than what they’d pay going into a nursing home.
I would like to see the POOR helped out, not just merely the elderly.
I just don’t see giving a tax break to someone like Colt (you know who I’m talking about GS), who is MORE than able to afford his share of the taxes.
What do the elderly need? They need people who will come into their homes and care for them, be trustworthy and really care about them. They need to pay the workers more than 8 dollars an hour. THAT is what they NEED.
Hey folks, study the issues before you comment, please!
Kansas has a “Homestead” exemption or Homestead tax refund. You can file this form when you file your Kansas Income Tax form, or you can ask for assistance in filing this form at the local County Clerk’s Office. Many private organizations will also assist you.
This refund has been in place for many, many years. The refund is based on ability to pay taxes.
Kansas also has a food sales tax refund. This is ALSO means-tested.
If we really wish to provide “relief” for property and sales taxes, the existing programs should be expanded, and the eligibility rules simplified.
Mathmatically, “freezing” property values has some real problems.Mill Levies are set by the County Clerk.The Clerk looks at the budget in each taxing authority. In Sedgwick County, I believe that we have about 105 different property taxing authorities. A few cities and a few school districts are actually on the border with another county, which raises other complications. The various County Clerks must cooperate in sharing information where taxing districts cross the County line.Then the valuations must be factored in. Utility Values come from the Kansas Department of Revenue. Agricultural values, Commercial Values and Residential Values are computed by the County Appraiser.The budget of each taxing authority is then “spread” over the taxable or assessed value in each taxing district.In Sedgwick, with 105 different taxing districts, including TIF’s and TDIF’s, this gets complicated: (development zones, pollution zones, tax increment financing, tax decrement financing, cities, townships, school districts, cemetary districts, and of course the County itself.)A device called the “tax unit” was created to show the various mill levies possible, created by all the different, overlapping tax authorities.We have thousands of tax units in Sedgwick County. A tax unit is defined as “a contiguous area having the same mill levy and the same taxing authority jurisdiction.”
I suppose that those who are advocating a freeze have good intentions, but where on Earth do they want to plug a “freeze” into this equation?I was once told that setting the mill levy “was not rocket science.”I responded that the computer programs that sent the first man to the moon were not nearly as complicated as the programs the County uses to set the mill levy!Every thing you change will cost money and computer time and is one more variable that can mess up the whole system if not done perfectly!Every new complication makes government estimates and forecasts more difficult.—–
What about the morbid problem of determining eligibility? Does the estate get the exemption if the estate has not been settled and the “owner” has been dead a few years?
Is this another reason why someone might fail to notify the County when dear old mom dies?
What about the 80 year old that robs the cradle and is married to a 50 year old that is still working?
What about the 80 year old that has a live in child who makes in excess of $50,000.00 a year as a nurse and will inherit the house?
What about “life estates” where the retired person only owns “use” of the house while living, but it passes, immeadiately, upon death to another person?
Estate Planning often places the real estate in some form of a trust.There is a huge difference between living trusts (revocable trusts) and irrevocable trusts.We will need more attorneys at the Court House to determine ownership and eligibility for any “freeze” in value!
Today, property is classified based on use. Advocates of this change want to add a complication: valuation based on age.This will require huge databases in the Court House.Birth Certificates will be required at tax appeal hearings.Trusts, wills and living arrangements will have to be explored.
In short, this is a bad idea.
Refund taxes based on ability to pay. The State of Kansas already does this, and the money comes out of one fund, the Kansas General Fund.
I tend to support some sort of property tax relief for elderly IF they are low-income. And, we have such a thing in Kansas – it is KS K-10H Kansas Homestead Claim. There is also a credit on K-40 FOOD SALES TAX REFUND (line 25). These are ‘means-tested’; that is they are targeted to low-income.
I often hear the arguement that older people should not pay school taxes since their kids are grown and not in school. Well, mine is as well; I pay school taxes. I also have no parent(s) collecting Social Security but I do pay SS taxes. This is the system as it is. We support each others’ generations.
rm – perhaps if we want to help low-income elderly with their property taxes we should just ‘beef up’ K-40H and leave the local appraisres etc out of it.
JRI happen to agree with your “logistical nightmare” comment above.Please note this date on your calendar for future reference!
Hi Paul – looks like you posted while I was typing …
But the thing about tax deductions or refunds, they hurt the poor when they have to cough up the funds. The deductions mean squat to those who can’t afford to pay it NOW.
That’s what most of you people really don’t understand.
Both Econ and Ben have made the point I was going to make; there exists a “means test” for property tax relief. Before the legislature goes off “half-cocked” and grants a blanket exemption, I humbly suggest that it take a look at the current levels of income, etc. on the “Homestead Exemption” and make adjustments thereto, if the same are deemed necessary.
On the Food Sales Tax refund; having lived in states where certain basic foods are exempt from sales tax, it would be my preference that this be implemented in Kansas. It would reduce the bureaucracy needed to process the refund claims on the K-40 filed merely to claim this refund. Further, as I suspect many who are eligible for the refund who do not file the form to claim it, this would provide more general relief.
And, to add to the discussion, what about consideration of a multi-tiered sales tax to make up for the revenue loss from exempting basic foods from the sales tax? One rate for certain items, say non-exempt grocery items and clothing; a higher rate for, e.g., automobiles, etc; and yet a higher rate on hotels, rental cars, restaurant meals. Nothing here in stone, but for consideration.
BenI used to think posting under a fake name was cowardly.However, after the trolls hit, I decided this was a better idea.I make my living advising people on tax issues, Medicare, Long Term Care, etc.I cant have people posting under my real name, some of my folks might not know what “trolling” is and they would be offended by some of the stuff I didnt really say.Anyway, Ben, It looks like we agree as well. (At least on this one!)Great minds think alike??LOL
The Homestead and Food Sales Tax Refunds are fine for many people. However, in order to claim them, the applicant must file the appropriate Federal and State Income Tax forms. I think, and correct me if I’m wrong, the people most in need have only Social Security Income, and are exempt from these filings. Being aged, often infirm and poor, they can’t afford Turbo Tax or an accountant, and have no clue how to do it themselves in 2006. And their kids just want to put them in the home and get them out of their hair, so that’s just more evidence supporting their premise (and real motivation), so they’re no help. Many don’t drive, so they can’t go to the local Senior Center and get assistance there. So, they’re still “left out in the cold” once again. And even if they did pay someone to do, the pittance they got with those two refunds combined would doubtfully cover their expenses incurred. Catch-22.
rm, the Homestead Refund Claim form is separate and apart from the 1040 and K40; yes, this is something that has to be filed; and, you point out a problem with getting them filed. However, there will be filings of something, whether annually or otherwise, to substantiate the eligibility for the relief, whatever it may be.
The K40 must be filed to obtain the Food Sales Tax refund; if the only purpose in filing it is to claim the refund, it is fairly simple to do; but again, it is a piece of paper, computer form, to be filed, thus my proposal to exempt basic food at the store level to reduce this.
But, Vaughn, I glanced at it and there are base figures that must be reflected that are derived from KDR Form, isn’t there? Or, did I misread it?
I would also remind those who qualify that even if they rent, and do not own, their residence, they may also be eligible for the Homestead refund; there’s a bit more complication to it, i.e., the landlord’s name and address must be provided for substantiation, and the value of services provided by the landlord must be computed, using the formula provided. I have done this form for my mother for many years (a bit like killing flies with an A-Bomb), and can assert that it isn’t all that difficult.
rm, the computations needed may be obtained from the K40, if filed; or the “not to file” schedule in the instructions may be used to derive the information.
I stand corrected. I just looked at it again, and I see where it could be done with the other filing. Duh! This is the first time I’ve ever even seen the damned thing. But that’s no excuse.
* with OUT the other filing. Trying to do too damned many things at once here this morning.
This “multi-tasking” they keep talking about must be for much younger people! :)
rm, don’t feel bad; until I assisted my mom with the first filing, I’d not seen it either.
BTW, for those who own their residence and qualifty (total hh income <$28,000), the refund may be sent directly to the County Treasurer as a partial payment on the first half of the next year’s taxes.
pmomHow about this idea?
We allow a “credit” on the Homestead refund form, for those who can’t pay their property tax.
Simply have the owner check a box, on the form, claiming they are unable to pay.
Today, those who file for a refund must show a receipt from the Treasurer, that taxes have been paid. (I think the Clerk can simply print out the information on the computer, but the Treasurer has to imput the tax payment.)
Why not abate or stop any foreclosure hearings for those who have filed a Homestead form, and waive any penlaties, for those who claim they cant pay? (I think it takes 3 years missed payments to go to a Sheriffs sale anyway.)
Then, once approved, have the State of Kansas, Department of Revenue, credit the local County Treasurer for these taxes?Don’t forget, Kansas also has a state-wide property tax.Any credits can simply go against the money the Counties forward to Topeka all the time anyway!
I am not advocating this idea unless we truly have such a need.
However, my idea solves the problems that you claim are out there, without creating very many new problems.
Not bad, Paul. Would you abate accruing post-filing interest also, (assuming, of course, the payment was directed to route directly to the Treasurer’s Office?? That might put some pressure on the Department of Revenue to process these claims more rapidly, )as a side benefit) …..or not! Just thinking the pressure would be internal rather than external.
rmI accept your friendly amendment.
Another issue:I realize that government offices often move slowly and incentives help speed up the process.Someone up the chain of command will notice if interest payments get too high, and some efficiency might result.I believe, under the current system, that some auditing occurs, the person filing for exemption must expect that the state might compare their tax returns to their exemption requests.The Homestead Tax Refund also takes into account HOUSEHOLD income, which means kids and relatives and live in “significant others,” and other things, even things like some forms of public assistance.These are personal items not well suited for the public hearings required in a tax appeal.I would rather use the semi-confidential format of the income tax system, rather than the public appeals of property tax hearings.
Paul, you point out some interesting facts about the homestead refund that many are likely unaware of; and, some of the identified personal issues are not generally going to appear on a K40, either, for a variety of reasons.
Still wondering if a boost from $28,000 total “household income” to $35,000 or so isn’t a way to attack this, if the need is there, with indexing to inflation, with the maximum refund increased from $600 to $750 (again indexed) included?
Good points VT. I’ll add another: allow a taxpayer to defer the first half property tax (due December) until the K-40H is processed. Then simply have any balance due in June (2nd half)
Good thought, Ben; but the second half are due in May, right, under the acceleration bill passed a few years ago.
I thought it was June but no matter – still long after April 15.
that would make me happy Paul.
I work with a lady right now who is 73 years old, legally blind and diabetic; she had a car that she and her husband were paying on when her husband died.She does not drive, never did, and did not know anything about buying and selling a car.She had to let the bank take the car back because she could not afford to pay for it on her own but mostly she had no use for it.Now the bank by means of the court system is forcing her to pay for the car that the bank sold to someone else to recover the difference of the original loan price of the car.Of course the lady made a mistake by letting the bank take it back instead of trying to sell it but she did not know any better.So what is wrong with this, why is it that this person put thru such hardship?Why didn’t the bank write it off?
That’s so sad. Yet another product of the fabulous time when women were kept in the dark about how to handle all that ‘men’s business’.
But I don’t think the bank should have written it off either, it’s not their fault.
Wiseman, that is a bad situation. Without specific legal advice, the following comments are my attempt to outline the bank’s situation.
1) The bank is allowed to sell the car and seek a deficiency judgment under the Uniform Commercial Code, Article 9, unless the status of the transaction at the time the car was surrendered would fall into the situation where a deficiency judgment is prohibited by either the UCC or the Uniform Consumer Credit Code.
2) Any attempt to sell the car would have needed to be in sufficient amount as to satisfy the bank’s security interest, which is often not possible, so that a “clear title” could have been provided.
3) Under the banking regulations, as enforced by the bank examiners, the bank has the obligation to pursue its remedies so as to avoid writeoff of a potentially collectible loan.
Not too satisfactory an answer, I know. BTW, I presume the auto was in joint tenancy between husband and wife, and both were signers of the note to the bank.
VT-It is interesting that you brought that up about the joint tenancy.Maybe I should ask the person about her car insurance.If the car were purchase thru a bank loan, then the insurance would have to be full coverage and most insurance have a death clause.The banks insist on this for house mortgages so why not for cars?
By all means, Wiseman, ask; hopefully, you’ll get a good answer.
Car loans, and other loans used to purchase personal property, are different from real estate mortgages; so, it may be there’s no “credit life”; but again, ask.
“upside down” on a car is all too common …
I heard Mel Hambelton or Rusty Eck (one of the two) is having a sale. Maybe they would give this older lady a good deal. I think she could sign and drive. Or maybe it was a $100 down and they would pay off her house. I forget.
Or it could have been Cherry Orchard Furniture. They have people in the parking lot to control the crowds. Something about the boss is out of town and they’ve gone crazy.
VT -I asked and the reply was “yes ‚Äì they do that as long as you are not over 70 years old”Can you imagine that!Well so much for giving the senior citizens a break on things and all for a system that is power by greed.Fleettwood, one of these days you are going be old and if you not then hurry it up.
Lighten up, mr. “wise”man
One other thought on this thread:
Property Tax attaches to property, not people.As a general rule, the County Treasurer does not care WHO pays the tax. You can pay someone elses property tax for them at any time, they won’t even ask for any identification.Property has no privacy rights, as far as taxes are concerned.Property tax rolls are public record, as are the delinquent taxpayer rolls.As a rule, the Treasurer goes after the realestate for any taxes due.This way, if a property is sold, someone must pay the tax for the transaction to be processed by the County.Again, the County doesn’t care if the payer is the buyer, the seller, the title company or a total stranger.This is far different from the Income Tax system, where individuals are responsible for payments, and other assets can be attached for non payment.Again, this is why individual, personal differences, such as ability to pay, age, death, etc are best taken care of in a more private Income Tax format rather than in the Property Tax system.
The Homestead Tax Refund system is a better method than the proposal that prompted this thread.That system could be improved with some provisions to help those who cant pay the property tax in the first place.
rmMy response to your “friendly amendment” might have you scratching your head.My point, to expand, was that any interest penalties are pro-rated to all the taxing authorities in a tax unit, including the state and the county, the organizations responsible for collection.Keeping track of late payment fees, interest, etc is a good measure of promptness, and forgiven fees, under your idea, would have to be accounted for somewhere.
Some time back, the Legislature mandated that property tax refunds, after a successful appeal, had to include interest.Wow, did the Court House HATE that!
Wiseman, not too surprised about the insurance, as this type of insurance is “term”, and generally once a person is over 70, the underwriting risk is too great to justify it.