Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards is taking a gamble, coming out in favor of higher taxes to pay for what he considers important national goals as part of his campaign theme of shared sacrifice.
He argues that higher taxes for some are needed to pay for universal health care. He hasn’t ruled out raising gasoline taxes to address energy savings and global warming. And his main goal, eradicating poverty and the "two Americas," will require a tax increase from Americans, he says.
Edwards acknowledges the political risks of higher taxes. But "I actually believe this is what America needs."
Will voters like the candor, and seriousness, and are they ready to sacrifice for something? Or will it come off as repackaged old-style liberalism?
Meanwhile, executives from Wal-Mart, AT&T and Intel Corp. joined with labor leaders Wednesday in calling for universal health coverage for all Americans by 2012. The executives made one of the more compelling arguments for a universal system: Businesses have trouble competing internationally when they have to recover health care costs in their bottom lines and their foreign competitors don’t.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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175 Comments
In 2000, Daimler-Chrysler had to sell 125,000 more cars just to pay for the increase in employee health care costs.What part of this do you Cons not understand?It’s this type of thinking outside the box–even when it’s not the popular thing to do–that has always attracted me to John Edwards.Can you imagine what this country could be with a THINKING president, instead of a sitting one?
Hi MrC – still ‘way out west?”
All good ideas.
Americans should also be rewarded in tax credits for doing active things to help the nation like buying hybrid vehicles or energy efficient appliances. I’m sure Edwards will address that as well.
A first step towards making health coverage affordable to more folks would be to ban group policies. The insurance industry would then have to offer policies at the same cost to everyone and not reward some folks just because they work for a large corporation. And bottom line -it’s only the corporation that benefits.
I don’t care for Edwards because he is just another attorney that got wealthy preying on other folk’s grief. That makes me sick.
If the powers-that-be at Wal Mart are for universal health care in 5 years, I can’t help but believe the “bean-counters” have figured out how this will cost them less that providing benefits and a living wage to their employees. This endorsement is coming from the defendant in the largest class action suit in history. Yeah, I’m sure they’ve been reborn and atoning for all their perceived sins. Somebody should take a long hard look at Wal Mart related contributions to the Edwards’ campaign — now, and as the next couple of years emerge.
rm6046 – Jesus Christ on a corndog! Give us a break from the incessant conspiracy theories.
Sheesh.
I would expect any CEO, CFO, whatever other acronymn you wish to insert here of any U.S. corporation doing business internationally to urge consideration of the externalizing of the cost of providing health insurance, whatever it may be called, into the general economy as is done in the countries where its competitors are sited; it only makes sense to so do, from the perspective of cost of goods sold/net profit.
GS, your idea of aboliton of “group” policies would likely provide some younger, relatively healthy folks with lower premiums, while resulting in higher premiums for older folks who have, or are developing, chronic health issues. Underwriting risk, and all that, you know.
Of course big companies are for socialized health care. It means they won’t have to pay the cost.
It also means that the tax increase to pay for national health care will be enormous. Every working person will be hit hard in the wallet.
All the people who don’t work or won’t work will be laughing their butts off how they will get free health care.
I can tell you nationalized health care is not fun. You will wait 3-6 times longer now for an appointment. You will also have less choices as the small clinic doctor will be pushed out of business.
The best way is to make block unions of healthcare. That is, blocks of people group together and get a cheaper rate because they can buy in bulk. Be wise, start a charter and call it State of Kansas Health Charter or whatever you choose. Then when several hundred thousands people from your state demand changes on their policies or will take their business elsewhere, people will listen.
Do not support socialized health care, it is the worst.
GS: If there is nothing to hide, why are you ultra-cons so concerned that anybody would look? It’s the “righter than Rush” whackos, like you, that give the Republican party a bad name. Most of us don’t want to be Uberfuerhers, like you, GS, and that’s why we’re leaving. And Vaughn has already explained why your “abolish group insurance” plan stinks. Have you considered asking your doctor about adjusting your estrogen levels?
Edwards is telling the truth.And that truth is that the GOP spending has gotten us in such a tight spot that it would be imprudent to NOT raise some taxes.Along with the dems plans for fiscal responsability, our nation could be in decent shape before we get another whack-job prez to repeat the cycle.
This man’s campaign is over before it even begins.”Unions love Edwards”?Unions whose employees enjoy some of the finest health care coverages available?Union employees with union wages are going to support higher taxes and Canada’s Health Care?
What say you WE Blog Union employees?
reliance,
You really should stop listening to right-wing radio.
Maybe you don’t care about the millions of uninsured in this country. I’m guessing you’re among the fortunate who have an employer paying for the bulk of your insurance. Try paying for it on your own. (You, too, GS.)
If we continue as we are, the day will come when all companies will drop the insurance perk. They’ve already started. Not everyone works for a large company or corporation that offers insurance as a benefit. Smaller companies have been forced to drop it, leaving either uninsured people (I’m talking WORKING people) with no health care coverage or having to pay outrageous prices for it. Even YOU are not safe from that happening.
The tax increase for national health care would not necessarily be enormous. Why? It would work the same as your group insurance policy. The more people, the less the cost. With the majority of citizens on it, that’s one big number.
Could you produce personal experience on waiting times for care? That’s pretty much a myth. I’ve spoken with people in Great Britain. I’ve spoken with people in many areas in Canada. A few have said the wait can be long. The majority is very pleased. Why the difference? Because the plans are determined by each province.
The benefits of national health care outweigh everything else. NHC, if done properly, focuses first on prevention.
And if you think insurance companies are going to change because a few thousand people in one state (or even several) complain, you live in La La Land.
Screaming about higher taxes will not keep it from happening. Your choice may come down to one thing, thanks to the money we owe China and other countries.
How do you expect to pay even the interest on these loans? If any of these countries should decide to call in the loan, you may be wanting to learn a or several new languages.
Currently the system is that Americans pay more per capita for health care but receive fewer services than industrialized nations that have universal health care. The Cons don’t want to change the system because it would hurt their ability to gouge the consumer.
Government programs have administrative costs of 1%, compare that to the 20% of private plans. Why are conservatives against lowering the cost?
Costs for prescription drugs continue to rise. A drug company will market new diseases and repackage an old pill, often by changing the color, shape and name of an old pill, to deal with these. One fictional disorder was “social anxiety disorder” and a watered down anti-depression pill was used to treat a disorder the drug company created. The result was a whole new market. Doctors get some nice perks by putting their patients on pills they don’t need. If the pill provides a side affect then another pill is used to counter that.
The biggest excuse conservatives have is longer waiting lines. They often point to Canada although Canadians don’t wait for medical care any longer than Americans do. The difference is that all Canadians have health care while 15% of our population has none, yet we spend more on it.
Perhaps the Republicans could deal with the health care problem but they are too busy dealing with their “serious” issues of gay marriage, flag burning and human/animal hybrids. It’s time for them to step aside and let the responsible grown ups deal with the issues.
Libs, you (don’t) gotta love ‘em-
Most of us don’t want to be Uberfuerhers,Have you considered asking your doctor about adjusting your estrogen levels?before we get another whack-job prezYou really should stop listening to right-wing radio.Maybe you don’t care about the millions of uninsured in this country.
Canadian Health Care is great. Until you get sick.
http://www.ipi.org/ipi/IPIPressReleases.nsf/0/5350615e774d6ff285256c0f006967e4?OpenDocument
I wonder if those persons who had their grief “preyed upon” agree with sherri or John Edwards?
fleetie, your point? Libs are mean and nasty?
heheheheh. PIG SNORT here….
Focusing on the gasoline aspect for a moment, there are just so many excellent reasons why we should raise gas taxes: global warming, of course, and Hubbert’s peak, and energy independence, but also urban sprawl, sedentary lifestyles, cars being the number one killer of young adults, and so on.
But none of those reasons is quite as compelling as this: Osama bin Laden made his fortune in oil. If we were serious about fighting terror, we would have raised gasoline taxes years ago.
Certainly, I would prefer to decrease _other_ taxes so as to make gasoline tax increases “revenue neutral,” but if gas taxes are used to fund a federal budget surplus, I’m not going to complain. Much.
“The Cons don’t want to change the system because it would hurt their ability to gouge the consumer.”
You nailed it, Doug. Then let’s include people like Frist/HCA, and see what you get. Or rather THEY get.
Health care is a HUGE business. What really makes me laugh is those cons who say, “I don’t want to pay for somebody else’s health care!” The truth is, if you’re paying insurance, or even if your employer is paying into insurance for you, that money is not going into a fund to cover you. It goes into a general fund for all people within that insurance group. If you don’t see that, you’ve passed Brainwashing 101.
“but if gas taxes are used to fund a federal budget surplus, I’m not going to complain. Much.”
How about if they are just used to aprtailly reduce Bush’s massive budget deficits?
heheheh Ben. Wouldnt that be like trying to drain the ocean with a teaspoon?
The Truth,
That would be a fully believable link but for one thing: It isn’t Canadian.
Dammit RD. They HATE it when you post the facts.
An american telling us how awful the Canadian health care system is?
Say it isnt so…..
So Edwards is a low life because he makes money off people’s misery. Well, if that is your criteria, then you must also get sick at how Halliburton makes their profit – off the Iraq War that has killed how many soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians? Is that not misery also?
Okay, from now on, everytime “The Truth” writes something, just think “The Liar.”
It’s much more accurate.
That bullshizen myth that the reich-wing keeps repeating about Canadians lining up for American healthcare is wholly false.
Note the crap link to a private “think tank”. Here’s a real source.
http://cthealth.server101.com/myth_canadians‘_use_of_healthcare_in_the_u_s_.htm
In 1996, all of 20 Canadian respondants out of 18,000 on a survey said they had any kind of health care in the US.
Yeah capn.
And we know AMERICANS go to MEXICO for god’s sake for health care.
There ya have it. The best system in the world.
except for mexico, canada, sweden…
Isn’t it ironic that a lawyer who made multi-millions off the misery of others should now tell us that we need to be taxed more so others won’t suffer. He is currently building a 28,000 square foot home, a building called ‘The Barn’ that houses a full size pool, indoor basketball court, indoor handball court, etc.. This man based his whole presidential run on the fact there are two Americas. The haves and the have nots. Is there a liberal on this blog that doesn’t recognize the hipocracy of that statement.
Socialized medicine isn’t working in Canada or in the BK. It has multiple problems. The largest being that if you can get the same benefits by not working that you get for working well which would you choose. When society puts safety nets up that doesn’t allow anyone to fail then civilization as we know it is done for.
The only thing I can say about John Edwards is that his tax, tax, tax stance and his over the top lifestyle will doom his campaign before it begins.
“Socialized medicine isn’t working in Canada or in the BK. It has multiple problems. The largest being that if you can get the same benefits by not working that you get for working well which would you choose. When society puts safety nets up that doesn’t allow anyone to fail then civilization as we know it is done for.”
Germie, got any FACTS to back up that bullshit?
So, being rich is GOOD if you are a repuke, but being rich is BAD if you are John Edwards?
Got it.
You think the people Edwards represented and WON for resent his wealth? Like sherri, you think they hated that he “expoited” their grief?
Wanna post a link to that?
And if being rich disqualified one from being preznit, bush would still be failing in the oil biz instead of destroying democracy.
Is Edwards the only politician that is building or has built a lavish home? If you want to start going down that road, then let’s investigate both Republicans and Democrats and see who has the biggest house.
Hey yeah luc. Let’s talk about little ricky santorum’s EMPTY mansion in pennsylvania.
You know, the one he claimed was his residence while he was living out of state?
THAT kind of mansion?
Unlike you I do have facts to back that up. The workers of our country deserve better.
Demos are made up of whining hypoctrits. Look at Al Global Warming Gore who travels in private jets where ever he goes. Billy Graham never flew on a private jet and yet he traveled lots of places. He practiced what he preached.
Nancy I want it now Pelosi. Gonna clean up the house but needs a 757 to fly back and forth across the country at over $300,000 a trip paid by the taxpayers.
I think that John Edwards can be as rich as he wants to be but I don’t think he can be as rich as HE wants to be while taxing me to pay for his socialized medicine program. When he starts spreading his own money around then he can preach to me.
So you libs just keep doing your childish name calling, ignoring the facts that slap you in the face, burying your head in the sand when the truth is too painful. Acutally post an opinion that has some basis in fact – do this without running down Christians, bring in homosexuality or abortion. The real issues are out there. Educate yourself.
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.html#britain
Employer-provided health benefits are one of those weird American oddities that started right after WWII and caught on. Since we’re about the only developed country that expects our employers to provide health care, of course it has an adverse effect on competitiveness.I’ve always supported the idea of universal health care, but never really got to excited about it because I’ve always worked for large corporations and have always had great health care benefits. But very recently, someone close to me got terribly sick. She didn’t have health insurance. That was an eye-opener. We supposedly live in the greatest country on the planet. How can we even discuss not providing health care to any American? The emergency room shouldn’t be the only option for health care for people who can’t afford health insurance. And health care providers are very hard to find for poor people. The one in this area that will accept non-insured patients is a nightmare. Nobody should have to go through that.
Worried about having to pay for medical care for poor people? News flash! You do already through your taxes and added costs for your health insurance premium.
“Unlike you I do have facts to back that up”
welll gosh germie, care to POST any of those facts, or just keeping them for yourself?
hee hee he
Oh yes, PLEASE go to germies link and “educate” yourself. heheheheheh
Here is a link to the HOME PAGE of the author of germie’s link.
http://www.liberty-page.com/
See germie, and I didnt have to mention I am gay, bring up abortion or run down christians.
I just let your “facts” heheheh speak for themselves….
Gee, no agenda there, aye?
XXX there are tragic stories out there where people through no fault of their own are uninsured. They are also lots of uninsured that are uninsured by choice. I have also worked where good insurance was offered for a price. I was amazed that so many young workers opted out because they wanted to use the premium money for bigger stereo, faster cars, etc… You get the picture.
We need to fix the system we have. In some respects it is broken but it is situations like the above that put us where we are today. ERs are too accessible for free loaders and John Edwards wants to make it even more accessible.
Gee farmie you don’t approve of my source. Too liberal too conservative – wow should I go to Soros webpage, who would you suggest. Your hipocracy is screaming so loud I can’t read you post.
I will challenge anyone (except fargie) to look at the link I posted. It contains very real, actual examples of what happens when socialized medicine is put in place.
Yes, please DO go to germies link for a little peek at her thinking.
Please germie, post where I have cited Soros. Or ANY leftie website.
Cant do it?
Talking out yer ass again I see.
I have a friend who is Canadian, and she says that most of the time, their access to health care is just fine.
The problem is that many Canadian doctors end up coming to practice in the US for the money.
And the wait in Canada isn’t nearly like it is here in the US from time to time. When my son needed his evaluations for his autism, the wait was 6 months.
Of course, the wait is far longer when you have no insurance at all than ANYONE in Canada.
So the lucky who have health insurance in the US, they might not have to wait, but I can promise you the ones who don’t have health insurance die waiting far longer.
Not only have I lived this, I saw it result in a death recently. The position I took in my new job…the gal who I was replacing was on hospice for a condition that could have been treated earlier had it been caught. She ignored the symptoms because she had no health insurance, and now, at an early age she is dead.
Do the Libs think that Socialized medicine will be the one program that the goverment can administer correctly, when all the others have turned into boondoggels?Like many Lib ideas in the past, it seemed like a good idea at the time.Cost overruns, wasted spending, higher and higher taxes to keep things afloat.Look who is for Socialized medicine.That speaks volumes.
Truth be told, Americans do go to Mexico, Canada, the internet, for perscription medications. Such as Viagra, Pain Killers, Allergy meds, etc.The Truth remains that for serious illness (Cancer, Heart, Transplants) America is the place the entire world seeks treatment.Socialized health care in America will rid the planet of these choices.
Pmom why didn’t this person have insurance? I really want to know. Why did you have to wait this long for care of an authism patient? I just had a friend get her son in with only a two week wait for this evaluation.
What do you think our healthcare will become when we have only those doctors who will work for the lowest wage? Do you want to trust your health and the health of your family to the lowest bidder? This is what will happen when socialized medicine is adopted.
Our elderly patients will be put on waiting list where their name will never come to the top of the list. Dialysis treatment is something only the younger set qualify for.
This is just one of the unacceptable things that happen when we stop having private healthcare and only have government controlled care.
And farmie I can’t say with certainty that you have sourced Soros or anyone because other than nervous little hehehe you do I can’t remember much of what you have said.
Germie just makes stuff up and expects everyone to sit at the table and eat in silence.
Tain’t going to happen…
According to Germie, Clinton did not deal with the attack on the USS Cole because he was busy lying to the Grand Jury.
The Cole incident happened October 12, 2000, three month before Clinton left office and two YEARS after impeachment.
But, hey, Germie is always right, even if she is wrong.
“Gee farmie you don’t approve of my source. Too liberal too conservative – wow should I go to Soros webpage, who would you suggest.”
It was never suggested that farmie had sourced Soros.
ksgrm,
“Look at Al Global Warming Gore who travels in private jets where ever he goes.”
Actually, he flies commercial whenever possible, and even had random security checks.’Ex-VP no airport VIPGore searched twice during Wisconsin trip’http://www2.jsonline.com/news/nat/jun02/51090.asp
He’s also carbon-neutral. But I guess you’re easily conned by the fossil-fuel funded CEI?http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2006/05/cei_exaggerates_by_a_factor_of.php
It doesn’t really matter why Clinton didn’t deal with the attack on the USS Cole.If fact remains that he didn’t deal with it, Period.
Bush did not deal with the USS Cole attack either.
Normally I do not respond to you, Fleet Idiot, but in this case….
The CIA did not make the al Qaeda connection to the USS Cole until SIX days after GWB took office. Clinton was advised in late December that there was a possible connection, but nothing absolute. It was not until March of 2001 that the CIA actually confirmed the bin Laden/al Qaeda coordination.
So, Fleet Idiot, why DIDN’T your hero, George W Bush do something about the Cole attack?
Moron.
Universal health coverage is the next “Amtrak”.
Amtrak was sold to taxpayers back in May 1971 as something that would be superior to privately owned passenger railroads, and with the promise that the government would make money running trains. That’s something that Amtrak has never done in its sorry history. Indeed, it has never once even come close to breaking even, nor does it have any prospect of doing so in the future.
Of course Amtrak doesn’t break even.
Do our highways “break even”?
Hell, no.
They’re paid for by gov’t.
We should be spending billions MORE on Amtrak and upgrading to a world-class rail system like every other industrialized country in the world.
Wichita to KC would be a no brainer. Ditch the drive and the flight. Take a high-speed train.
The fact remains that he didn’t deal with it, Period.
And your responce is, Bush didn’t deal with it, either? Is that it?
Another “I Win” goes on the board.I’m going to have to build a larger trophy case.
Good response, “The Liar.”
You left out one little thing though.
Evidence.
Better luck next time . . . .
“Amtrak was sold to taxpayers back in May 1971 as something that would be superior to privately owned passenger railroads, and with the promise that the government would make money running trains.”
capn seemed to miss this part of the post.
“The fact remains that he didn’t deal with it, Period.”
No Fleet Idiot, my response was THAT IT WAS NOT CONFIRMED BY THE CIA TO BE AL QAEDA UNTIL AFTER CLINTON LEFT OFFICE.
Christ, you must be even dumber than your hero GWB.
Christ, you must be dumber than Germie.
Freakin’ Moron.
Right Angle you are so right in the Amtrak disaster. Anyone who has ridden on one recently will have noticed the unkempt interiors, the under maintained bathrooms and on and on and on.
Healthcare managed by the government would be a nightmare just as this is.
FREE healthcare will never be. Someone has to pay for it. Will it be you, me or some other idiot out there who will continue to work after he realized he is supporting the rest of the country.
As long as people like the contributors on this blog think that higher taxes will solve the problem – the problem will never go away.
This might be the very thing that will reunite the republicans. I say nominate John Edwards.
“The Truth remains that for serious illness (Cancer, Heart, Transplants) America is the place the entire world seeks treatment.”
Truth,Not so much anymore. I saw something on TV last year that examined medical procedures in other countries and according to the report, a lot of Americans are opting to seek medical care in countries like Poland and surprisingly, India (at least to me). Americans that were interviewed cited cost, quality, and “humane” treatment. The Philippines got high marks for the quality of their nurses.
American health care is the most expensive in the world. Why don’t we have the highest life expectancy?
WS glad to see you are around with your paticular brand of logic. “If I call them juvenile names and insult their intelligence, I win”.
Afraid it doesn’t work that way.
So Germie, the National Debt is almost nine trillion dollars – how to you propose paying it?
Bake sales?
Auctions?
Someone will have to pay the debt. Even with the Bush overly optomistic budget proposal, the budget will not even be balanced until 2012, at which time the debt will be over ELEVEN trillion dollars.
So how do you Republican expect to pay off the debt.
BTW – Of the projected eleven trillion dollars, ten trillion was generated under Republican “leadership.”
“Afraid it doesn’t work that way.”
Well Germie, tell me how it was the Clinton was busy lying to the Grand Jury, so he didn’t address the Cole attack issue?
Clinton testified before the GJ in 1997.
The Cole attack was in October 2000.
You have yet to answer that one – it should be easy for you since you are always right, even when you are wrong.
This is how the Libs do it:
Talking out yer ass again I see.
Fleet Idiot
Moron
Good response, “The Liar.”
No Fleet Idiot
Christ, you must be even dumber than your hero GWB
Christ, you must be dumber than Germie.
Freakin’ Moron.
So answer the question, Fleet Idiot…
Germie?
“When society puts safety nets up that doesn’t allow anyone to fail then civilization as we know it is done for.”
Uh no honey. What will happen then is fewer people will have to supplicate themselves to the exploitation of people like you.
Former Dem who runs a damn buisiness now and makes her buck off the back of others. Not surprising she wants them as needy and desperate as possible. Willing to let others suffer and die just to keep her station and a shorter line in the waiting room. Detestable bitch.
I have had insurance and now I do not. But if me or my kid ever needs attention? I’m taking the John Q approach.
Michael Moore is makin a new movie about health care in America. It and the new congress should FINALLY get us national health care within the next few years.
I’ll make sure I cough on you in the waiting room germie.
BDP fleet,
“And your responce is, Bush didn’t deal with it, either? Is that it?”
Sorry, I forgot how factually-challenged you are.
Clinton did not “deal with it”, because the CIA had NOT confirmed the connection.Bush did not “deal with it”, even AFTER the CIA later confirmed it.
One more-
Detestable bitch.
Amazing, Fleet Idiot, you just toss your moronic nonsense out there – no facts – just Limbaughesque shit – and then you expect to be taken seriously.
Sorry, Fleet, I have to demote you again to the garbage heap.
Take the Germie with you.
Truth be told re: KSgrm’s statement, not civlization, but the idea of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, Yes.
‘People’ like fleetenema belong in camps. Uneducated cancers on society, really.
ksgrm,
“Nancy I want it now Pelosi. … needs a 757 to fly back and forth across the country at over $300,000 a trip paid by the taxpayers.”
After 9/11, the Speaker of the House (next in line after the VP) has been offered military flights, for more security.
Hastert used Air Force flights when he was Speaker.
The House Sergeant of Arms (not Pelosi) requested a plane that could make non-stop flights to SF, for security reasons.
‘Pelosi May Decline Air Force Flights Over Plane Issue’http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aawmx8s0piMY&refer=home ““I have said that I am happy to ride commercial if the plane they have doesn’t go coast to coast,” Pelosi said today. “
‘People’ like fleetemema, ksgrm, GSheridan and The Liar are far greater threats to the freedom and well-being of the United States and its citizens than terrorists could ever dream of being.
Cosmos, think I read/heard earlier today that the Administration was in favor of the proposal.
No matter what one thinks of the Speaker, she is, after all, second in the line of succession to the Presidency.
Pelosi wanted to fly commercial – I guess you won’t hear any of the right wingers yelling about that.
Of course, San Francisco is a little further west than Chicago.
I guess they will try to blame that on Pelosi also.
Republican hypocrisy – it may never end.
Yes VT, you are correct as usual.
This ought to make germie’s pointy little head explode.
The title is “White House Defends Pelosi Plane Request”
None other than TONY SNOW is saying it is not a problem
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PELOSI_PLANE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME
Other items that don’t break even:
Police ProtectionNational DefenseFire ProtectionParks and Recreation Activities (i.e. public swimming pools)Roads (unless you would like to pay a toll on all roads)The development of the rail system at the beginning (all financed by PUBLIC dollars)Science researchState University funding
Wait a second…NO government program breaks even if you think about it! But then again, it does because we used tax dollars to pay for roads, it lessoned the cost of transport, which helped the economy, which pays it back in return.
Amtrak would work the same way (any rail for that matter). The costs related to transport would go down and if more people used trains rather then drive cars long distances we would lower consumption of fossil fuels, helping the environment, and thus lowering health care costs.
Even more, if Amtrak was viable (or any high speed train system) it would provide a good competition for airlines and thus LOWERING ticketing costs…..I could go on and on
hee hee hee hee
germie must have just grabbed the first talking points she found instead of hitting “refresh”. She got out ahead of the White House, which of course is what happens when you dont wait for the flip flop, er, the NEW talking points.
Truth be told, there are plenty of countries to live if you are a socialist or desire cradle to grave entitlements.Leave America alone.
Mr. Snow also said that it was a silly story and unfair to the Speaker, per link below:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/08/pelosi.plane.ap/index.html
Thanks, Cosmos, for the confirmatory link; when one attains my advanced age, one begins to not trust the memory.
Truth be told, there are plenty of countries to live if you are a facist or desire cradle to grave government services without paying taxes.Leave America alone.
Truth be told, Ksfarmgirl appears to be a fast learner.Yes, that too.
The White House and the president have always said she deserved a plane everybit as much as the last Speaker. What no one said was that she needed a floating armada. A 757 would take half of the senate to California. She made her threat to fly commercial after the pentagon said she couldn’t have a plane like the one the VP flies on. Knowing she COULDN’T fly commercial means what – that her little temper tantrum would get her what she wants. She is a disgrace to every strong female in office today. We’ll wait and see what happens, I doubt this is over.
Farmie you really need to read the whole debate and not just the latest episode.
Don’t break even: Did you miss the report last year on bridge maintenance on federal highways. A very high percentage of them were deemed to be “structurally deficient”.
Amtrak is a good idea but would be better maintained by a corporation who would be responsible for the upkeep of the tracks and trains in order to remain profitable.
VT I love the way some people make fun of FAUX news and then post a link from CNN like it is gospel.
I’ve been observing our National Debt rise annually since first reading about it in the “Weekly Reader” in Pratt’s Central Grade School. Suffice it to say that’s been aways back.
My observation is … no incentive exists for succeeding Presidents to strive to reduce the National Debt that was increased by previous Presidents. It’s all election talk.
In other words, why would the next President feel beholden to go on a spending diet to make up for gigantic spending screwups of one George Bush?
Of course, the Chinese might just demand ownership of all U.S. public buildings, public utilities and military bases.
Do you want to travel to Beijing to tell them “we no likee that idea”?
germie YOU need to quit getting your facts straight from Hannity and Rush.
And you have no room to be calling anyone a disgrace.
ksgrm,
“… then post a link from CNN like it is gospel.
VT’s CNN link is actually Associated Press’.
Germie, go back to the heap with Fleet. Your abject hatred of Pelosi and any Democrat is embarassing.
If Pelosi was a Republican Speaker, you would be screaming that she deserved to fly in the most secure manner possible because she was the second in the line of succession to the presidency.
Because she is a Democrat, you would just as soon she rode a bicycle.
Hypocrisy – thy name is Republican.
My apologies VT and Cosmos. In my hurry to respond I typed in the wrong liberal source. No that is a copout. I made a mistake.
JR I didn’t have a chance to listen to Rush and Sean today. Were they good?
And yes, as a woman after watching Ms. Pelosi all but cry for the camera today while pleading for a non-stop flight to CA., I say she was a disgrace. She wanted to play with the big dogs she needs to act like one.
How long would it take to land at the air base at Colorado Springs and refuel? Expecially if it saves the taxpayers several hundreds of thousand dollars.
WASHINGTON – The Air Force transport plane decried by Republicans as an extravagance for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was requested by the House sergeant-at-arms as a matter of security, he said Thursday.
“I regret that an issue that is exclusively considered and decided in a security context has evolved into a political issue,” Bill Livingood said in a news release. He said because Pelosi lives in California he was compelled “to request an aircraft that is capable of making non-stop flights for security purposes, unless such an aircraft is unavailable. This will ensure communications capabilities and also enhance security.
Try the facts, Germie.
Like most Republicans, you choose to ignore facts that do not agree with your predetermined positions.
But, like the Clinton – Cole issue, try the real story.
It was not Pelosi that requested the non-stop plane…
Go back to the heap with Fleet.
WS I don’t need to read accounts of this because, if you missed an earlier post I watched an interview with Ms. Pelosi today and heard from her own mouth what she said. She said in a very petulent voice ‘if I can’t have a non-stop flight then I will just fly commercial’. Yep that’s how a speaker should be acting. Spoiled Brat. If security is the issue then that statement was for one purpose only. To get her way no matter what. This is just the beginning. Sorry if I upset you WS but facts are facts.
As for Clinton and the Cole you actually started that whole thing by saying Bush was entirely responsible for the WTC bombings. I just pointed out to you all the things that happened on Clinton’s watch that he didn’t answer to in anyway. Just like the schoolyard bully, if you don’t stand up to him he just gets bolder.
The Republicans were just fine with Bush flying around, campaigning for other Republicans – the same with Cheney – but they begrudge Pelosi a secure flight home.
All that Cheney and Bush paid for was the price of a commercial first class ticket.
Hypocrisy – If you are a Republican, it is considered a virtue.
“by saying Bush was entirely responsible for the WTC bombings”
One word – bullshit.
I never posted that, period.
I am still waiting for you to explain how it was Clinton lying to the GJ that kept him from responding to the Cole attack.
Explain that Germie or STFU.
Facts – Considered to be poison by Republican apologists.
WS I have tried to talk to you like an adult. You said Bush did nothing to stop it and it happened on his watch. TRANSLATION: Bush was responsible.
To be truthful WS I’m not sure what Clinton was doing the entire 8 years he was in the Whitehouse – well except for the things that came out in the grand jury testimony.
What I said was the US was attacked over and over and all he did bomb an aspirin factory in Sudan.
Facts WS – Live with them.
“WS I have tried to talk to you like an adult. You said Bush did nothing to stop it and it happened on his watch. TRANSLATION: Bush was responsible.”
Copy and paste where I said Bush did nothing to stop the attacks on the WTC.
Copy and paste what I posted or STFU.
And answer the question about Clinton’s GJ testimony affecting the Ccole response.
Or STFU.
Use facts, Germie or go away like Fleet did when confronted with the facts.
WS you are right I should go away and leave you to yourself.John Edwards and his socialized medical plan are a bust. He has no plan except to raise taxes. I will help campaign against him or anyone else with that agenda.
One thing that always stands out with libs is that when they are proved wrong on something they try to change the subject.I don’t choose to play that game tonight.
More Lib debate:
Amazing, Fleet Idiot just Limbaughesque shit
Sorry, Fleet, I have to demote you again to the garbage heap.
‘People’ like fleetenema belong in camps
Uneducated cancers on society, really.
‘People’ like fleetemema, ksgrm, GSheridan and The Liar are far greater threats to the freedom and well-being of the United States and its citizens than terrorists could ever dream of being.
germie YOU need to quit getting your facts straight from Hannity and Rush.
Go back to the heap with Fleet
I guess that means that you cannot answer the questions about the National Debt and the Clinton – Cole connection.
Like most Republicans, if you cannot answer the questions so you look to change the subject.
Yes, Germie, go away.
You are welcome to come back when you reaquaint yourself with FACTUAL NEWS SOURCES.
“One thing that always stands out with libs is that when they are proved wrong on something they try to change the subject.I don’t choose to play that game tonight.
Posted by: ksgrm | February 08, 2007 at 07:10 PM”
Still waiting for that answer on Clinton being distracted by lying to the GJ that caused him to fail to respond to the Cole attack, Germie.
Jeez, what a hypocrite.
Copy and paste, Germie…..
Still waiting for that post where I stated the Bush yada, yada, yada….
Liar.
#1) Who gives a shit about the debt. We’ve had debt before, it will go away and we will have more debt again. So what. Perhaps we could get more of you people to get a job, maybe pay taxes.
#2)Clinton-Cole connection. Clinton was the chief at the time. I remember Clinton expressing sorrow and determination to catch those awful people who did this and it all sounded so…. deja vu.Your crap about nobody knew it was related to Al Quada doesn’t matter, doesn’t compute. Again, who cares if CIA knew who it was.Deja Vu
$525 billion spent on paying interest on the debt each year. That alone could pay for the Pentagon budget. Of course Republicans don’t care about the debt because balancing the budget and paying debt is an act of responsibility. When have the neo-cons ever acted responsibly?
God, facts and Republicans just don’t mix, do they?
We’ve had debt before, it will go away and we will have more debt again. So what.
“it will go away”
Typical Republican apologist.
Nine trillion.
Ten Trillion.
Eleven trillion.
The total Federal tax receipts for 2006 were only about two and a half trillion.
When will the Debt just go away?
I don’t know, but it will. It’s not the end of the world.
Lib logic-
EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And this is why the Fleet Idiot has been relegated to the Blog Garbage Heap.
Do you deny that the debt will go away? That is what I said.Do you deny that it is not the end of the world? That is what I said.
Garbage heap.
Garbage heap.
Thank you, ws, I will consider that another one for my wall,”I Win!”
Garbage heap.
If we minded our own business and put all the money we spend on war and contolling the governments of other countries, we’d have enough to provide health care for everyone. Our priorities aren’t in the right place, they’ve never been in the right place.I’m not against raising taxes to fund health care, but we could probably find the funds in the money our country wastes everyday on lost causes.
WS I spent some of my valuable time looking this up for you. It is a very simplistic explanation of why we have always been and will always be a debtor nation.
“Debt is dangerous only when assets are declining in value and income is shrinking. During the 1980’s, asset values grew far faster than debt.”–George Gilder
This quote says it much better than I ever could and this link will help you understand what he said if you will take the time to read it.
http://web2.airmail.net/scsr/Debt.htm
Simply said if I start making a much larger salary and buy a house with a much greater mortgage – I am no worse off because the value of my assets have increased at a much larger percentage that my debt.
Amtrak IS superior to the privately run railroads.
Don’t indulge them WS
fleetwood is a moron. He thinks if he beats his chest and bellows “Me REPUBLICAN!!” long enough that someday he will get to live like one.
Germie is a rotten sellout. She bailed on her principles because she don wike to pay taxes.
Socialized medicine is coming germie. But before it does? I’d like to get you to answer a question.
No one ELSE on the right will answer it. Maybe as a newer mint rightie you can be more honest.
By your position, are you not actively advocating that the poor should suffer and die if they cannot pay for their health care? See cause your HONEST answer is yes. I just wonder if you have the balls to say so.
In general I disagree with liberals on a great many ideas. However, when it comes to a national health plan, I partly agree one is needed, but not all ‘intrusive’.
My thoughts on one, is a low cost alternative, not to replace companies providing group healthcare, but to help those in lower paying jobs that do not provide insurance.
I envision it being something like a low cost HMO or something similar. So while I agree there needs to be something for low income, non-insured persons to have access to, I don’t think it should be as wide spread and all encompassing as to replace all privatized insurance either.
That is my thought and opinion on the matter.
“American health care is the most expensive in the world. Why don’t we have the highest life expectancy?”
Posted by: XXX
Would our life style have anything to do with it?
So Mary what you are saying is that we should become isolationists and when other countries have disasters, tsunamies and such we should say ‘to bad, so sad’ and go our way. That might not be a bad idea but what would that do our image. We give to every disaster that comes along and according to most of our bloggers we are the most hated nation ever. What would happen if they actually had something to hate about us self righteous, stingy Americans?
I just love it when the Repukes scream “personal responsibility” when it comes to other people.
Sort of like when they changed the bankruptcy laws.
But when it comes to the National Debt, well, they are okay with that…
They quote figures that are meaningless, claiming that all is good because it is just nine or ten or twelve trillion dollars.
None of them EVER quote a date when we will pay off the CHINESE.
They are perfectly fine with paying 525 billion dollars a year to foreign interests.
Republican hypocrisy – the story continues.
JR I do have the courage to say that no one should be denied healthcare. But that is in the system we have right now. Anyone can go to an ER and get treatment. They can’t be turned away.
Now where we disagree is about what keeps some people from having health ins.
Lots of small businesses just simply don’t have the capital to fund 100% of their employees healthcare. I’m not sure how many know what drives ins. premiums but it is something called experience. The ins. company looks at your firms usage for the preceeding year and then comes up with a premium to let them pay out that amount of claims but a little bit for overhead. They are taking a risk that your claims won’t be as high or at least no higher than the previous year. When a company has older employees their premiums go up even more because of the age of the employees.
If the government could come up with a way to block like businesses together so they could use the experience of an entire industry then premiums would go down and become more affordable for the small business owners and government wouldn’t have to socialize medicine.
I hope I passed your test. I don’t want anyone to go without adequate health care – we just have different ideas about how to get there.
WS you are really being obtuse. People buy bonds all the time. Some are school bonds, municipal bonds, treasury bonds,etc… It’s an investment. When the bonds come due, the issuer buys them back. If the Chinese are making money off this interests I guess you could say we are subsidizing them. No Chinese will be moving into the White House unless we as voters don’t maintain control and let that happen. This will happen at the ballot box by letting into office those who won’t protect our interests.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THIS SPEECH!
My Fellow Americans: As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed.
Since congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in Iraq is complete.
This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces from Iraq .
This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now to begin the reckoning.
Before me, I have two lists. One list contains the names of countries which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is short The United Kingdom , Spain , Bulgaria , Australia , and Poland are some of the countries listed there.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world’s nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of both lists later this evening.
Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France .
In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home. On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth.
Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France , or maybe China .
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France , Germany , and Russia . Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking ti ckets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and crushed. I don’t care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or watch your precious Benzes, Beamers and limos be turned over to some of the finest chop shops in the world. I love New York .
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List 2 Since we are likely to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not pissing us off for a change.
Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox a nd his entire corrupt government need an attitude adjustment. I will have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where I am going to put ‘em? Yep, border security. So start doing something with your oil.
Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty – starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. Immediately, we’ll be drilling for oil in Alaska – which will take care of this country’s oil needs for decades to come.
If you’re an environmentalist who opposes this decision, I refer you to List 2 above: pick a country and move there. They care.
It is time for America to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens. Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, “darn tootin.” Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America . It is time to eliminate homelessness in America . It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America . To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won’t forget.
To the nations on List 2, a final thought: You might want to learn to speak Arabic. God bless America . Thank you and good night.
You are either mis informed or being deceitful ksgrm.
Hospital emergency rooms are required to provide STABLILIZING CARE only.
If a woman without insurance walks in with a lump in her breast? They will tell her it could or could not be cancer. If she is hurting they will medicate for pain.
Then they will send her home.
To die.
KSGRM, I don’t believe there is anything wrong with giving to countries who suffer natural or any other kind of disaster. All I’m saying is that we totally waste our money on wars that we can’t win and trying to contol governments that we can’t control.Maybe if we backed off a little, other countries wouldn’t see us as the bad guys all the time…hell, we might even have MORE money to give when a disaster happens if we had our priorities in the right place.Universal health care is the right way to give everybody equal access to health care and disease prevention.JR, really poor people HAVE access to health care, as do the elderly and the disabled. It’s the working poor and the middle class that gets shut out, or wiped out when they have a health crisis. It’s time things were more fair to those in between the rich and the poor. Hawaii has universal health care, and it works really well. I know people in England and Canada who also think it’s a pretty sweet deal. It would certainly beat out the system we have now. Basic health care should be a right in this country, not a special privilege only for the poor and the rich.
Right Angle that is amazing. I think you just might be on to something.
JR while er treats everything including the common cold they aren’t equipped to cure cancer. But there are many programs that will help people who through no fault of their own don’t have health ins. Medicaid is one example of this. Not knowing the facts behind the person who goes to an ER with a breast lump it would be hard to see where she or he fell through the cracks. Personal responsibility is taking care of yourself before something like this happens. I hope that doesn’t sound judgemental.
I don’t profess to have all the answers but I know that we are a resourceful nation and can find the answer if we look in the right places.
In 2006, the United States spend $9.5 billion on foreign aid.
That would pay for about a month of the War on Iraq.
Cancelling foreign aid would not even make a dent in the cost of theWar on Iraq, which is now estimated to cost over $677 billion through 2007.
But so much the facts from the Republicans.
“Universal health care is the right way to give everybody equal access to health care and disease prevention.”
Mary Caruso
I know this sounds good and it also looks good on paper but who decides who is unable to work or doesn’t have the tools to make a decent living. Are they poor because it’s to much trouble to get up and go to work everyday. Are they poor because they gamble their checks away. Are they poor because they have an expensive drug habit and can’t pay their bills.
Why should we tell the people that get up everyday and go to work, are responsible citizens, pay their bills on time, pay for health insurance, save money for some unforseen happening that now they will be paying more in taxes because the above mentioned weren’t responsible enough to plan ahead.
I wish there were a way to identify the really needy without all the undeserving coming in through the same door.
William M. Arkin’s take on on the military…
They call them Leathernecks, they call them Devil Dogs…
I call them Mercenaries.
The USA Health Plan does not have to be designed on the basis of any other nation’s health plan. You know we can design our own. I don’t think the government should cover ALL our health care cost. People need to have incentives to stay well. I would much prefer a plan where the individual pays an amount- say $2000 or so in a 12 month period and the national plan pay anything over that amount.
Kev you know that is a very good idea. I am in the age group where several of my friends have taken early retirement. Too young for medicare and yet not able to stay on any group insurance. The premiums for someone in this circumstance run well over $1,500 a month. What many have elected to do is buy catastrophic ins. They are responsible for anything up to $5000 annually and then the insurance kicks in. It is to their benefit to stay healthy. This is a responsible way for many to purchase health ins. for a fraction of what it would cost for a more lucrative policy.
$20.7 billion in 2006
Bush has asked for $23.7 billion for 2007.
$20.7 billion would be a start to recover social Security.
“President Bush will propose a substantial increase in foreign aid in the fiscal 2006 budget that he will submit to Congress tomorrow, although the boost for one of his signature aid programs will fall well short of the amount he promised.”
So, Right Asshole, how are you going to pay off a $677 billion bill with $9.5 or even $23.7 billion?
Really.
This is your quote….
“The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.”
I guess you must have failed math the first six or seven times around…
Moron.
$20.7 billion would be a start to recover social Security.
Posted by: Right Angle | February 08, 2007 at 09:54 PM
The current SS obligation total is about $38 TRILLION.
I don’t think that $9.5 or $20.7 or even $23.7 BILLION is going to do much about that level of obligation.
I see WSClark is in his usual form once again.
Are you watching Brownlee?
Republican Alert – the following are FACTS – Beware!!!
Israel top recipient of US foreign aid Israel is still the top recipient of US foreign aid.
President George W. Bush’s administration submitted the foreign aid budget to Congress for 2008, requesting $20.27 billion, a 12 percent increase from 2007.
The foreign aid budget comprises only a small portion of its overall budget of $2.9 trillion.
Israel will receive $2.4 billion. Since the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty in 1979, Israel has received up to $3 billion in aid annually from the US.
As part of an initiative by former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, civilian aid has decreased over the course of the past 10 years, going from $1.2 million to being completely cancelled this year. Military aid to Israel has increased from $1.8 billion to $2.4 billion.
Egypt receives the second largest aid package from the US with $1.3 billion in military aid and $415 million in civilian aid. Jordan receives $264 million in economic aid as well as $200 million in military aid.
Aid to the Palestinian Authority has been frozen following Hamas’ victory in the recent PA elections.
Lebanon is expected to receive some $52 million in aid in 2008.
Table 5. Foreign Aid Funding Trends1990 $20.23 0.26% 2.98%1991 $20.73 0.27% 2.90%1992 $18.62 0.24% 2.77%1993 $20.31 0.25% 3.16%1994 $16.67 0.20% 2.70%1995 $17.31 0.20% 2.93%1996 $15.35 0.17% 2.66%1997 $14.92 0.16% 2.58%1998 $15.92 0.16% 2.68%1999 $17.71 0.18% 2.75%2000 $17.97 0.17% 2.85%2001 $17.42 0.16% 2.49%2002 $17.58 0.16% 2.30%2003 $23.22 0.21% 2.69%2004 $20.67 0.18% 2.42%Source: USAID, Office of Management and Budget, and CRScalculations.
“Are you watching Brownlee?”
Sure he is, JM, but facts do not disturb NORMAL people.
Thank God that you have left Kansas, JM.
Mississippi’s loss, Kansas’ gain.
The cost of the War on Iraq – $677 BILLION.
“The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.”
How does that math work, RA?
It figures the neo-con on the board sees no problem with debt. We pay taxes just to pay debt interest. It’s in the neo-con plan to bankrupt America so they have an excuse to cut social programs and focus more money on the military to control the populace and create a fascist police state.
The more debt means less money for education and R&D. As a result we can lose technological advantage over other nations and become a third world country. Conservatives cannot govern, they cannot lead people, they only know failure and they seek failure only because they are failures. Progressives have always been on the forefront improving society and the conservatives can only work to ruin society. When have the conservatives ever produced anything positive? The fought for slavery, for racial and sexual discrimination, they sided with the Nazis and fascists, they share the same ideology as the Islamic fundamentalists, and they can’t even defeat a third world nation in a war. The last six years of Republican rule have been proof of that.
BTW, JM – the only sure fire way to get yourself (that means you) banned from WE Blog is to be a TROLLER.
Now, you wouldn’t be a TROLLER now would you, JM?
Thank God for Mississippi!!!!
Thanks, Tight Strangle.
That’s was the most hilarously ludicrous post I’ve read for a long time.
Not just the regular list of reich-wing “they made fun of me” waah waah, this one had some real thought behind it. And what a screaming laugh-riot it was!
The punch line was definitely this gem–”Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the world . . . ”
Oh, baby, you gotta be shizen me, right?!
Let’s start with Matthew C. Perry who sailed US gunships into Japan and forced the Emperor to open its ports to our trade.
Following the British lead in China, the Americans enthusiastically embraced drug running (opium) and forceably crushed any magistrate who tried to enforce Chinese law against the importation of our narco-terrorism.
The well-known Rooseveldt family fortune was founded on narco-terrorism.
When the Chinese rose up against foreign domination aided and abetted by the US, the “society of righteous and harmonious fists” (called the boxers) were gunned down without mercy.
For every American missionary killed, our military demanded TEN Chinese heads. (We didn’t much care if they were actually responsible or anything.) We also helped the Brits and the French destroy priceless works of art in the Summer Palace and Forbidden City.
And then there’s Hawaii. The Hawaiins had their own government, their own society. Nevermind, we wanted the land and we took it.
Remember The Maine? No, you probably don’t. This was the US warship sent to Cuba to “protect US interests” while Spanish Cuba was dealing with a rebellion.
As a new democracy dedicated to freedom from the European yoke, we helped the rebels, right?
Oh, hell, no. We helped the Spanish. Nevertheless The Maine was attacked and sunk, probably by rebels. Seizing this opportunity, the US declared war on SPAIN.
Newspaper man William Randolf Hearst told artist Fredrick Remington, “you furnish the pictures, I’ll furnish the war.”
As a result of this “splendid little war,” we took control or outright possession of Cuba (that’s why we have a prison on Gitmo), Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines. We stabbed the Filipinos square in the back when McKinley declared them “unfit for self-governance” despite their expectation that our American democracy would be sympathetic to their goal of independence from old Europe.
Some 8,000 of them got civilized by getting the bloody end of a bayonet.
When the nation of Columbia rejected our offer of money to buy the land for Panama canal, we simply backed a local rebellion and “bought” the land from the war lords.
In the 30 years between 1900 and the Depression, the US sent troops some 35 times to Latin America.
One of them was overthrowing the gov’t of Nicaragua when it threatened a US “concession.” However, when a real rebellion threatened our puppet leader, we sent in the troops again to prop him up.
And on and on and on it goes . . .
Overthrowing the elected president Allende and installing the murderous tyrant Pinochet. Aiding the French colonial power against the local patriots seeking independence in French Indo-China, to the point of giving defeated JAPANESE SOLDIERS responsibility to police the country until France could return.
Threatening Vietnam when no one in its government wanted us there or invited us, then beginning a full scale invasion based on the ridiculous pretext of the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
And we’re still doing it. The Bush CIA freely admits it aided a coup and assassination attempt at THRICE ELECTED leader of Venezula, Hugo Chavez.
Yet we are outraged–OUTRAGED! I tell you–when Chavez jokes that he can smell where el diablo (Bush) had just stood.
Dang it, Capn! You are using FACTS again!
That kind of stuff makes Republicans feel inferior. It hurts their FEELINGS.
Cut it out!!!
They may start crying any minute now.
So, Right Asshole, how are you going to pay off a $677 billion bill with $9.5 or even $23.7 billion?
677/23.7= 28.5 years
How are you going to do it?
Truth be told, the Israeli aid is part of the peace agreement brokered by Liberal Democrat, James Earl Carter.Also to offer assistance to Ksgrm re: The USS Cole bombing, truth be told he must have his timeline confused with embassy bombings in Tazania that happened during the Clinton Grand Jury hearings.Regardless, the outcome remains the same – more terrorist attacks against the United States under the Clinton administration without proportional response.
Hey, RA, you CONVENIENTLY forgot about the interest.
Currently, it is running about $525 billion per year.
But your figures do not include the current debt of NINE TRILLION DOLLARS.
So, just to pay the principal on the War on Iraq debt by cancelling ALL foreign aid would take nearly thirty years.
Jeez, that’s great, RA.
That’s wonderful RA.
When do you plan on paying down the actual National Debt?
Space does not permit to list all the other countries we tried to . . . uh . . . help.
But you might try googling these items, just for starters–
Manuel Noriega
General Somoza
Operation Ajax that installed a feudal monarch in Iran (the Shah) and knocked off the duly elected Prime Minister
Menachim Begin–Zionist terrorist who became a US ally despite blowing up the King David Hotel in an act of blatant terrorism
East Timor
CIA mining of harbors in Nicaragua
Papa and Baby Doc in Haiti
The Saudi Royal family
That would be $525 billion per year in interest on the total National Debt as of 2007.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070208/cm_csm/ycobban08
CAIRO – As the level of tension rises between the US and Iran, I am very concerned that the Bush administration is trying to paint a scenario of the probable consequences of a possible US military action against Iran that is far more rosy than the situation warrants.
One key example: Both Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley have talked about the great threat that Sunni Arab countries perceive from Iran, which is predominantly non-Arab and Shiite. Some advocates of an attack (in the US and Israel) have argued that a US strike on Iran would be welcomed in Sunni-dominated nations and would therefore generally bolster the region’s forces of stability. My current tour in Egypt contradicts that. The Egyptians I’ve talked to so far – including retired diplomats, experienced political analysts, and journalists – have expressed unanimous opposition to any US attack against Iran.
You did not answer my question – How are you going to do it?
ksgrm has attacked Pelosi for wanting a non-stop flight — but what are the facts?
‘GOP makes much ado about the size of Pelosi’s plane’http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/08/MNGN5O11UT1.DTL&type=politics “Among the models in the Air Force fleet that Pelosi could use to fly nonstop to San Francisco is the C-37, a 16-seat business jet made by Gulfstream with a range of 5,600 miles….But Republicans charged that Pelosi would use the biggest aircraft available — a C-32, which is a configuration of the Boeing 757 with a four-section passenger area. Daly also slammed GOP critics for the plane story, which has circulated on conservative talk radio and Internet blogs.”
Looks like ksgrm is more interested in spreading FALSE right-wing BS than the truth.
Oh my G*d, Tight Strangle, you’re right . . . IT CAN’T BE DONE!
AHAHAHHHH!!!! WE’RE DOOMED!!!
Look, douchebag, how did Clinton do it?
Do the same thing . . .
You did not answer my question – How are you going to do it?
Posted by: Right Angle | February 08, 2007 at 10:30 PM
This is YOUR quote, Right Asshole…
“The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.”
You made the statement, not me.
As for how I expect to pay for it – dump the $0.7 trillion into the rest of the Repukes debt, balance the goddamed budget like Clinton did and start paying as you go, as the Democrats have suggested.
RA, you said cutting out foreign aid would pay for the War on Iraq in the first year.
So where did you learn math?
“Looks like ksgrm is more interested in spreading FALSE right-wing BS than the truth.”
Cosmos,Never. Not that sweet Kansas grandmother.
Interest only on the debt. Even on the right wing money shows the wingnuts are starting to admit they are going to have to fund the war with a separate tax. Lots of saber rattling towards Iran and Syria.http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm
Interest ExpenseFISCAL Year 2007January $ 18,132,425,570.82December 95,908,834,357.10November 20,305,104,412.28October 22,293,168,366.68———————-FISCAL Year Total $ 156,639,532,706.88Available Historical DataFISCAL Year End2006 $405,872,109,315.832005 $352,350,252,507.902004 $321,566,323,971.292003 $318,148,529,151.512002 $332,536,958,599.42
I said months ago that the push for universal health care won’t come from liberals but from big business
Who ever you vote for in the 2008 national election,the poll results from Judging the Judges on 7/23/2006 should be remembered concerning the 2008 candidate for Judge,Rebecca Pilshaw.
Let’s all pull together to bring her reign to an end! If you and I rec’d this rating at work we would have already been fired!
Judge Rebecca Pilshaw rec’d the following negative percentage(s) of votes from 125 total votes on each question. Source: Judging the Judges 7/23/06 poll of attorneys:
Is fair?Disagree Strongly Disagree 30% 26%
Is ethical?Disagree Strongly Disagree22% 18%
Demonstrates knowledge of the law, including the rules of procedure and evidence?Disagree Strongly Disagree28% 15%
Communicates orally and in writing in a clear and logical manner?Disagree Strongly Disagree20% 14%
Clearly explains rulings?Disagree Strongly Disagree32% 22%
Is prepared for court?Disagree Strongly Disagree24% 43%
Is respectful, courteous and professional?Disagree Strongly Disagree24% 42%
Is punctual and demonstrates a fair work ethic?Disagree Strongly Disagree25% 18%
Applies the law appropriately?Disagree Strongly Disagree19% 20%
Treats people fairly without regard to race, gender or sexual orientation?Disagree Strongly disagree15% 16%
Pilshaw results formatted for posting:
Is fair?Disagree 30%Strongly Disagree 26%
Is ethical?Disagree 22%Strongly Disagree 18%
Demonstrates knowledge of the law, including the rules of procedure and evidence?Disagree 28%Strongly Disagree 15%
Communicates orally and in writing in a clear and logical manner?Disagree 20%Strongly Disagree 14%
Clearly explains rulings?Disagree 32%Strongly Disagree 22%
Is prepared for court?Disagree 24%Strongly Disagree 43%
Is respectful, courteous and professional?Disagree 24%Strongly Disagree 42%
Is punctual and demonstrates a fair work ethic?Disagree 25%Strongly Disagree 18%
Applies the law appropriately?Disagree 19%Strongly Disagree 20%
Treats people fairly without regard to race, gender or sexual orientation?Disagree 15%Strongly disagree 16%
I worked for a company that offered healthcare for its employees six years ago. I had good insurance, although I rarely used it. I remember going to the doctor once.
They moved our center to Canada, and I lost a decent paying job AND healthcare. Guess why?
We constantly hear or read about companies cutting back on their share of insurance premiums. Isn’t that what unions often fight about when new contract time rolls around?
All of you who are comfy with your insurance today, may not be next month. What will you give up if your share goes up $100 to $200 to $300 per month? I’m being sincere in asking.
That is what I think the USA health plan will look like one day. People should be incentived to remain healthy and not to run to the doctor or ER everytime they catch a cold. They should go to the doctor only if they are really ill or for a yearly physical.
Right Angle–
Why’d you get so quiet all of a sudden?
Scrolling through Rush transcripts isn’t going to help you here, loser.
Kev, yes, the key is preventative care, but without health insurance, people won’t go to the doctor for small ilnesses or yearly physicals. I wouldn’t even want to guess what the out-of-pocket payment for a complete physical would be without insurance. And with millions of uninsured…
Hmmmm…
Why is Right Angle calling someone else Right asshole?
Could someone be trolling and forgot which name to post under?
Some of the nic switching and trolling around here could be diminished if the WE Blog editors would just OUT the bastids.
Come on WE Blog, tell us who trolls under which nic. Perhaps, they have some shame or self respect left that being outed would cause them to leave.
We can always hope….
Basic health care should be a right that’s funded by the taxpayers. Like driving on good roads, access to clean water, education, etc. People should have the right to affordable health care. Even many poor countries provide health care for their citizens, it’s time we did the same. We’re a rich country, we can afford it.
“Hmmmm…
Why is Right Angle calling someone else Right asshole?”
Could someone be trolling and forgot which name to post under?Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | February 09, 2007 at 10:07 AM
No, I DON’T CALL PEOPLE NAMES, I BELIEVE IT IS NOT PROPER FOR ME TO DO.
THAT was a quote by Posted by: WSClark | February 08, 2007 at 09:55 PM:”So, Right Asshole, how are you going to pay off a $677 billion bill with $9.5 or even $23.7 billion”
I FORGOT TO PUT QUOTES AROUND IT. Sorry.
I was just providing a answer to his question.
I made a similar mistake WSClark did when he stated that “In 2006, the United States spend $9.5 billion on foreign aid.”
I DID NOT CHECK THE NUMBERS SOMEONE EMAILED ME. BUT I DID NOT CALL HIM NAMES. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MR. CLARK AND MYSELF.
“Basic health care should be a right that’s funded by the taxpayers.”
mary-Where do we stop? Homes, car insurance, cars themselves? Food? The list goes on and on.
It is not right. I think it’s proper name is Socialism. No thanks.
Let’s get you on record fleetie.
If someone cannot afford health care and has no insurance they should suffer and die right?
“”The money saved during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the Iraqi war.”
You made the statement, not me.”
You were dubbed the “Right Asshole” when you made this statement and then accused me of not knowing how to pay for the war.
You should be aware that I frequently rename posters on this blog and others do the same.
If you can’t stand the heat, get on out of the kitchen.
The list of liberal bloggers that have been given unfavorable names is rather lengthy. It is only fair that the right wingers live with the same.
As for that matter, one of your precious reich winger lunatics accused me of being gay because I support the gay right to marriage.
I am a 54 year old straight man with three children – hardly a candidate for a gay marriage.
Get over yourself, RA.
I DON’T CALL PEOPLE NAMES, I BELIEVE IT IS NOT PROPER FOR ME TO DO. IF YOU WANT TO THAT IS UP TO YOU. I WAS JUST RAISED DIFFERENT.
IN MOST CASES, IF YOU SHOW RESPECT TO OTHERS THEY WILL TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT.
I CAN NOT HELP WHAT OTHER RIGHT OR LEFT WING PEOPLE DO. I AM ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MYSELF.
HAVE A GOOD DAY MR. CLARK
See ya, RA…….
I believe that a lot of people need to go back to school and find out what a right angle is.It is neither an Obtuse angle (left leaning) nor an acute angle (right leaning) but is straight up and down in the center.Yes, to you on the very extremes, I may appear to be leaning left or right only because of your distorted view. I was called by one of my college friends to be a liberal-Conservative.
By the way isn’t John Edwards one of the reasons that medical costs in the US is higher than other nations?
“Before entering politics, Edwards was a personal injury trial attorney. He represented families and children, and specialized in corporate negligence and medical malpractice claims. Edwards made his personal fortune through his trial successes and his 2003 financial disclosure forms showed a total net worth between $12.8 and $60 million.[2] Edwards was criticized for paying himself mostly through subchapter S corporate dividends, rather than a salary, to take advantage of a tax-law loophole that allowed him to avoid paying $591,000 in Medicare taxes;”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edwards
And if he were a Republican, RA, you folks would be celebrating his acheiving the American Dream.
Tell us how John Edwards is different from Sam Walton.
Remember, every dollar Edwards made as a trial lawyer was awarded to one of his clients by a jury.
So what is the difference between a rich Democrat and a rich Republican?
Mr. Clarl,I am aginst rich corporation chief officers making many thousand times more that the average worker.IT HAS GOT COMPLETELY OUT OF REASON.However I am not aginst a business owner making money if he gives his workers a fair wage.
“And if he were a Republican, RA, you folks would be celebrating his acheiving the American Dream.
Tell us how John Edwards is different from Sam Walton.”
Sam Walton, I understand did not make anyone shop at Walmark. and no I would not be celebrating if he were a Republican. Please see above post on what a Right Angle is.
The oil companies have just reported record profits. That money earned on the backs of every single American.
The late Sam Walton and the Walton Family has made billions upon billions of dollars by driving Mom & Pop business and smaller corporation out of business, all the while destroying small American companies that sought to be a supplier to the corporate giant that Wal Mart became.
John Edwards was a trial lawyer that represented average Americans who had been wronged by corporations and doctors.
Wal Mart has gone a long towards destroying the very small town America that they claim to represent.
John Edwards has stood up for the average American.
The oil executives, including Cheney, have gotten rich.
The Waltons got rich.
John Edwards got rich.
Which one is wrong?
“John Edwards was a trial lawyer that represented average Americans who had been wronged by corporations and doctors.”Posted by: WSClark | February 10, 2007 at 01:34 PM—————————-I did not say he was right or wrong. I just pointed out that in other countries may have lower medical costs because they do not have the malpractice costs.
malpractice costs might have something to do with malpractice. How well do we police and prevent that?
Fleet, I’d rather see our tax money go to health care than war…nothing wrong with spending our resources on the preservation and quality of life rather that the destruction of it. I guess I’m not surprised that you can’t see it that way.
Right Angle -You sound like a Centrist.
THIS IS A TEST:
http://www.theadvocates.org:80/quiz.html