A day after shooting himself in the foot with remarks about Sen. Barack Obama, Sen. Joe Biden is still trying to stop the bleeding.
In an interview on Wednesday, the first official day of his presidential campaign, Biden described Obama as "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy." Which raised a lot of eyebrows, and a lot of questions about Biden’s opinion of earlier candidates such as Alan Keyes, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
On "The Daily Show" later that night, Biden tried to control the damage — and succeeded mostly in handing Jon Stewart an arsenal of laugh lines.
Posted by Dave Knadler
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145 Comments
buh-bye joe
too bad we hardly knew ye…
Remember Henny Youngman, “Take my wife . . . PLEASE!”
Take Joe Biden . . . PLEASE.
What a maroon.
Oh heavens! Where to start?
Poor ol’ Biden is one of the smart ones on the democrats’s side! I guess it just doesn’t pay to be honest if you’re a dem!
Hank
Hank Price,
So that means that you think Biden is right to pronounce Barack Obama “clean” and “articulate?”
GSheridan and fleeeeeeeetwoooooood,
If your implication on the other thread was that Biden was a racist for using these terms, doesn’t Hank Price’s endorsement of them make him a racist, too?
The comment was extremely ignorant and stupid.But Biden will most likely survive (…his Presidential campaign, though, is not looking so good). He was funny on the Daily Show at least…
I agree with Hank that Biden is a solid, realistic Dem. He has an unfortunate tendency to speak before his brain filter is fully engaged. What did he say a few months ago about convenience stores and Indians or Pakistanis?But to call him racist based on what he said is judgmental. But that’s politics.
You know as well as I do, outlander, that if Biden was a Republican, he would be impaled on a stake right now…
No doubt Andrew. But on the other hand, if he his slip of the tongue was in regard to say, Condi Rice, it would have hardly caused a ripple.
Well, some prayers do come true – Day One, Joe Biden inserts foot into mouth, game over, see ya Joe.
Democrat or Republican, we need something besides the same old worn out, tired shit.
We need new ideas, new blood, new faces.
Sorry Joe, you need to stay in the Senate.
Let Hillary, John and Barack have a shot at the brass ring.
Dear CF,
Do you ever take your head out of your ass (sorry Julie, he’s trying to lable me a racist) and actually read a post before you respond?
When I refered to Biden’s remarks as ‘honest’ I meant that he stupidly actually stated what he really thought.
Something very dangerous for a democrat to do! Especially on the day he announces as a candidate for president.
I’m sorry to see him self-destruct so soon. Everyone knows it was going to happen, but I had hopes he would keep HRC’s war-room busy for a while.
Hank
Hank, I would amend your “…stupid thing for a democrat to do…” to read “…stupid thing for any candidate for political office to do…”.
Point taken.
Especially if you are a racist pig like Biden.
Hank,no offense taken – see my last post on rosy picture of climate thread
Entirely too much is being made of this….
Thanks Julie!
Don’t want to insult you. (Or your husband!)
Hank
cf-Thank you for noticing. There were some on this blog who actually, and typically, defendedBiden. Hank was making a good point.There was no mention of this **shocker!** in this morning’s Eagle.
Biden only let his true inner feelings come out.
I can’t believe even DEMS are jumping on this stupid bandwagon. Joe said nothing wrong. Unless you all think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are mainstream and represent the Democratic party.
If I said McCain was the first candidate for the republican party to be articulate and mainstream, you all would think I was gloating on McCain…which is exactly what Biden was doing.
Exactly PM! One of the few libs to get it.
Well spoken, intelligent and pretty enough to be a republican! I’m starting to really like you!
Poor ol’ Joe was complimenting BHO. He just did it by insulting every other black in politics!
Hank
Make it right in your own mind, pmom.
Agree political mom.
What we have here is the right trying to get Democrats infighting amongst themselves.
I actually agree with JR.
I know of no evidence, from Biden’s extensive public record, to indicate he’s a racist. He does, however, have a habit of letting his mouth run ahead of his brain. Poor choice of words, certainly. Perhaps in this “hurt wittle feewings on our sweeve” world, it may hurt his chances as a candidate.
And I know, from observation and personal experience, that those with an agenda (usually a self-serving one) will latch onto any comment, no matter how out of context, to advance that agenda (i.e. Sharpton, Jackson).
Not the best choice of words, but hardly reason to crucify the guy.
Too bad. Biden’s a democrat (one of the relatively few from the current leadership) I could actually bring myself to vote for – depending on the choice on other side of the ballot, of course.
Well Hank, that is true, it did end up insulting the other blacks who have run….but LOOK AT WHO THOSE OTHERS WERE.
As a dem, I’m more than comfortable saying It’d be a cold day in hades before I’d have voted for any of the other african american candidates. but Obama, he’s absolutely vote-able.
Jesse Jackson or Sam Brownback…
augh. I think I’d just have to move.
I’ll agree with JR’s earlier post, not his latest. “The right,” that mythical monolithic block of conspirators, didn’t stir this pot.
Gosh, imagine if there really was a “vast right wing conspiracy . . . . . . “sorry, fantasizing again.
A Republican would be called a racist, a Democrat would be called racially insensitive.Hypocrits.
This is a typical political slam job. I wouldn’t vote for Biden no matter what, but this is just plain bs. If he had it to say over again, he would change the wording. But what he did say hardly insulted every other black man. To pull what he meant to say is a no-brainer; all the spin is nonsense, but typical poly-slam beltway bs as usual.
The main problem I see here is the fact to opposite side of any argument is going to put negative spin on it. Not for the purpose of correcting a point, but for the sole purpose of digging as deep as they can until, for myself at least, it sounds like kids in a playground without any adult supervision. But I imagine that’s the way the resident polypukes think anyway.
Dump the whole lot and attempt to find people with integrity; a much more difficult proposition than it sounds.
Massive disagreement with my fellow Democrats.
Calling black politicians ‘articulate’ and ‘clean’ calls attention to the racist painting of black folks generally as neither ‘clean’ nor ‘articulate.’ It’s a word game that has been honed and cultivated for a long, long time by Right-Wing spinmeisters.
Watching Republicans on this board (like GMC70) invoke ‘bad’ blacks like Al Sharpton (’pimp’) or Jesse Jackson (’huckster’) plays on the racist, Republican-generated meme that separates white-acceptable black politicians from those who aren’t. This is the racist, Republican-code game as it is currently played.
Biden said something that shows that this very distinction exists in his brain. That’s why I’m castigating him for it. His nomination is sunk, and rightly so. Recall, also, that a few months ago, he pandered to a crowd by telling them that Delaware had been a slave state.
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/politics/16150760.htm
I don’t think he’s a full-blown racist, in the sense of being openly hateful and discriminatory. He’s no Jesse Helms, or even Trent Lott. He’s not enough of a racist to be welcomed in the Repubican party. But he clearly operates within a view that prejudges black folks and groups them according to certain characteristics. To that extent, it’s fair to call him a racist. And I do. So the not-so-fleet one can shove his accusation of hypocrisy up his sorry ass where it belongs.
Biden’s racist attitudes, however, amount to nothing in comparison with the Repubican use of racist stereotypes and stoking of racial fears, as in Bob Corker’s racist campaign against Harold Ford Jr. And it’s worth noting, as well, that the campaign strategist who devised the racist attacks on Harold Ford is now employed by the McCain campaign.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/McCain_eyes_Call_Me_attack_ad_1207.html
When it comes to racism, Democrats police ourselves by punishing the racists who show themselves in our midst. Republicans, by contrast, reward their racists by promoting them.
I’m not being political, CF, I think Biden wasn’t racist.
What do you think he meant by ‘clean’?
Believe me, if I felt this was a racist comment, I’d have been all over it.
I think this whole thing on Biden once again puts the “liberal media” bit to bed.
Again.
This is such a non story. But ALL the networks were on it like sharks on blood in the water.
Biden? I like his “in your face” style. It is exactly what is needed to combat the Republicans.
Obama? I have to get to know him better. My initial take is he is too…….nice.
Nobody that voted for the war is going to be the Democratic nominee.
That rules out Hillary and Joe Blowhard Biden.
Obama is “clean” and “articulate.” If ever there was damning with faint praise, this is it. I’m ashamed that this man is in my party.
Biden should stick to plagiarized speeches. He makes less of an ass of himself that way.
Stick a fork in him–we was done before he started.
CF -
You made the charge – you’ll have to back it up. Specifically:
“Watching Republicans on this board (like GMC70) invoke ‘bad’ blacks like Al Sharpton (’pimp’) or Jesse Jackson (’huckster’) plays on the racist, Republican-generated meme that separates white-acceptable black politicians from those who aren’t. This is the racist, Republican-code game as it is currently played.”
You want to call me a racist – you’ll have to put forth specific writings I’ve posted to support same. Otherwise, I’ll be expecting an apology.
This is simply more BS from the party of Robert Byrd, exalted cyclops of the KKK. It is the left which demands conformity with what are “acceptable” points of view among black politicians. Witness the high-tech lynching of Justice Thomas some years ago (a lynching that still goes on despite the record on the court for all to see), when he dared to step, in Hillary’s words, “off the plantation.”
You point to the “racist” campaign of Corker. Be specific – name exactly what was racist. You’ll have to do better than “because I said so,” or even “everybody knows.” Be specific.
More BS: “He’s not enough of a racist to be welcomed in the Repubican party.” You got specifics to back up that charge? I don’t think so.
No, the race card is firmly in the Democratic camp. You play it, and you play it well. You simply toss out the accusation Republican=racist with no support whatsoever, and go into contortions patting yourself on the back as to just how rightous you are. Hypocricy is your middle name.
Yea, I’m pissed. I’m damn tired of these accusations being made routinely and simply accepted as true without support.
I’ll take that apology with a six pack attached, thank you.
pmom,
There’s an asymmetry between the language that is used to refer to black folks versus what’s used to refer to white folks. For example, would Biden have referred to, say, Chris Dodd as ‘clean’ or ‘articulate’?
The fact that he wouldn’t have done so shows that he’s still buying into a covert set of assumptions, and he ought to know better.
Whoa, the outrage of the rich white man knows no bounds, right GMC?
There he stands with a plectrum banjo in his hands, his palms and face dirty from the dust of picking cotton all day, “nobody know de’ troubles I seen, nobody knows, like Jesus . . . ”
Corkins ran ad showing the white bimbo asking that Harold Ford “call her.” Jesse Helms ran the “white hands” ad in which a man with white hands opens a letter that says his job had to be given to a negro. H. W. Bush ran the Willie Horton ad in which a black rapist murderer’s face morphed repeatedly into Michael Dukkais.
Is any of this coming back to you now, much aggreived white lawyer man?
Correction–Corker
GMC70,
I thought about that after I posted. I haven’t seen you trade on either of the specific memes I mentioned in discussing your posting. Granted. However, I stand by the association since you put, front and center, the predictable representatives that are always invoked in that line of attack: Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
Every time, the Right uses them as the go-to example of the negative black stereotype. And to the extent that you did the same, you showed a willingness to employ the verbal game by which they are set up as the ‘bad negro’ exemplar.
I have an interview to attend at the moment, so the full justification of my well-known accusations will have to wait until after 5:00 PM. At that time, it will be my pleasure to show that Bob Corker used racist tactics (white fear of intermarriage).
Oh, and one more thing, GMC70: I don’t give a shit whether you’re convinced or not. I don’t view you as the arbiter of jack shit. The case I’ll make and substantiate will be directed to those who possess the ability to admit they’re wrong.
The problem with Biden is he tries to act Republican. He was for the war because the Republicans were for it. He makes some racist comments because he knows the Republican party is full of racists and he just wants to blend in. C’mon Biden, you can’t hang with the Republicans, they just hate too much.
Capn-whatever-the-new-name-is:
I’ve seen the Corker ad. Racism there is in the eye of the beholder. That the pretty blond says “call me” in the context of the commercial was funny. If you see racism there, it speaks more to your attitudes than the ad.Bush I pointed out that Horton was released to kill again, under Dukakis’ program. T’was true. That he was black was irrelevent; the ACT mattered.Not seen the Helms ad – when and where? Sounds like an attack on affirmative action. Reasonable people can oppose affirmative action and not be racist, though, again, I’ve not seen the ad. I’ll certainly not take your word for what it portrays (I’ve read too many appellate briefs to take anything at just a word!).
No, the Dems acuse racism when it suits them, and then use it as a club to beat the other side with. It’s the equivilent of the old “do you still beat your wife?” tactic. The accusation is enough to be damning; real evidence is not needed, and the lack of evidence will be forgotten.
I’ll apologize for nothing. My party has nothing to apologize for; my party is the party of Lincoln, not the party of Jim Crow.
Thomas’s issue was NOT that he was black, it was that he treated women like crap.
If Obama starts treating women in such a fashion, you bet your ass I’ll be all over that.
CF, so if I refer to my ex-alcoholic father as ‘clean’ am I saying he’s not dirty? Clean can mean many things, not corrupt, not tied to something, not impure. To suggest he meant it in the other context is a leap based on how he was using the term.
GMC, and the party that has consistently done everything in it’s power to keep blacks from advancing. From Strom Thurman, to David Duke.
I’ll tell you why I don’t like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They advocate for their race, and they’re within their right to do so, but the problem is that they are HURTING the blacks more than helping anymore. Yes, we need someone out there to point out racism when it truly occurs…but like a woman who cries rape when it doesn’t happen- they end up making ALL women who have been raped less believeable. And that’s why I don’t care for them.
They would do fine if they championed real racism, rather than spouting off about racism where there was none.
Not that racism cannot be subtle, it can. Just don’t go jumping to conclusions.
CF, misstatting facts doesn’t change them.
“When it comes to racism, Democrats police ourselves by punishing the racists who show themselves in our midst. Republicans, by contrast, reward their racists by promoting them.”
Can you say Trent Lott who resigned his leadership position after making an unfortunate mistake in what he said at an old man’s birthday party. No promotion for him.
Then look at Robert Byrd – a former grand wizard in the klu klux klan. He has received one promotion after another by his demo buddies.
Get off the hard drugs and think before posting. It’s refreshing.
By the way on this same thread kind of. I have been doing lots of research on presidential candidates, trying to find one worth supporting. What exactly are the qualifications of Obama? Other than being the smartest woman in the world – a fact she tells us frequently – what are Hillary’s qualifications? A failed socialized health system.
The only democrat with qualifications is Bill Richardson and he has been pushed to the back of the line.
I’m not impressed with the republican nominees either and right now think a good independent candidate might be in order.
Trent Lott’s comment wasn’t even remotely close to Biden’s. How can you even compare them?
” would Biden have referred to, say, Chris Dodd as ‘clean’ or ‘articulate’?”
I don’t think even Biden would use those terms about Chris Dodd. He might, if he was riled, call Dodd “a bigger drunk than Ted Kennedy” but that’s obviously impossible.
Pm where is the proof that Clarence Thomas treated anyone in an inappropriate manner. If you mean Anita Hill she not only followed him twice to different jobs, but was the only woman to come forward to say he ever treated a woman employee in any innappropriate way.
Bush has had two black Secretaries of State and a black Secretary of Education. These were the two highest appointments ever for blacks. The republican party is the party that actually awards excellence whatever the race and we don’t take their vote for granted as the democrat party does.
BUT – was Biden wrong? I don’t think he said anything out of line for a common minded person. Why do we really give a chitlin about what Sharpton things, or Jesse, both of these guys have done terrible things as leaders.I agree with Biden. Alan Keyes is nuts!! He is not a rational person. Black America has worthless leadership.
Ah, someone that can tell me what was wrong with Trent Lott’s remarks!
Tell me PM, what was so bad about Trent Lott’s remarks?
Hank
Andy Young as just one example – articulate, intelligent, straight-spoken. So, to say Obama is the first …
BAD MOVE!
Senator Robert Byrd from WV was NEVER a Grand Wizard of the KKK.
Note:
In the early 1940s, when Byrd was 24 years old, he joined the Ku Klux Klan, which he had seen holding parades in Matoaka, West Virginia, as a child. His father had also been a Klan member[1]. Byrd was unanimously elected to be the leader, known as the Exalted Cyclops, of his local chapter
Repeating that old lie is just more Republican BS.
WS I’m just not up on all those KKK terms. I don’t have any interests in them. So is Exalted Cyclops a better name for Byrd?
Perfect! Some are Libs are actually saying what Biden said was stupid/wrong, then begin calling the Repubs haters/bigots with zero to back it up. Some of the more ignorant Libs are (again) defending the indefensible. Getting offensive because they have nothing left.Lott was being nice to a hundred year old man who probably went to the same meetings with Byrd (KKK-W. Virginia).
Grand Wizard…Exalted Cyclops…Imperial Dumbass…
You can call him anything you like. The bottom line: he was a leader in the KKK.
The end.
By the end of the war, Byrd had left he KKK and cut all ties with racist organizations.
Stop trying to link Democrats with racism – it is a bullshit tactic that everyone can see through.
Just think back to the Nixonian Southern Strategy.
Do you really think that was meant to appeal to black voters?
WS -
grand wizard, exalted cyclops, benighted poobah, whatever. Don’t matter what you call it – a distinction without a difference. He was in it up to his neck, and for far longer than he, or you, would like to remember. Read the rest of the Wiki article you drew that snippet from before you cannonize Byrd.
He’s just a good-old-boy who was smart enough to change clothes when it suited his political interests. Does he realize now that it was wrong? Perhaps. It may well be unfair to drag out a man’s past 50 years later. But if the Dems wanna throw mud on this issue, they’d best be prepared to get dirty, ’cause there’s lots of skeletons in the old Jim Crow south. Remeber – it was the southern Dems who fought civil rights legislation so hard, and for so long.
GMC70,
“Bush I pointed out that Horton was released to kill again, under Dukakis’ program. T’was true. That he was black was irrelevent; the ACT mattered.”
* William Horton did NOT “kill again” after he was released, as Bush I falsely claimed.* Horton was convicted as an ACCOMPLICE to a felony murder, NOT for murder, as Bush I claimed. Evidence suggests he was in the getaway car when his accomplices did the murder. One accomplice confessed doing the murder — disallowed, Miranda not read to him.
But you’re right, the “ACT mattered”.A black man on release raped a white woman.Other, actual murderers, had committed new murders while on release.
Amazing! Using the three boys and a dog defense to defend Byrd! Typical liberal, twisted logic!
Hank
I voted for Biden when I lived in Delaware back in the early ’80s. I was impressed with him then, in a field of largely overly conservative candidates. But, in recent years I’ve come to despise his arrogance and his convoluted opinions. Let’s not forget his insane rants at those endless congressional hearings last year. I notice, he’s even cleaned up his appearance since then. He looked decidedly disheveled at the hearings. Now he looks rather clean cut. Funny – a bit like he described Obama. I have no doubt he accidentally said exactly what he was thinking – Just like Kerry did. Delaware can be a very bigoted backwater. Blacks are still generally disliked in the southern part of the state. I’m glad we found out where he really stands before theelection!
Trent Lott said that Strom Thurmond should have been President!
Thurmond was at least true to his kind. THAT racist left the Democratic party and properly became a Republican.
Now I wouldn’t necessarily define the entire Republican party as racist. They are equal opportunity in exploiting people and keeping them down. It is just that Afircan Americans understand this better than most white people.
That is why as Democrats we should not allow the Republicans to cause us to fight among ourselves. We need to be fighting them.
Ultmately, BOTH parties, and this nation in general, have a lot to be ashamed of in our history of race and America. Rather than try to tie one party or the other with raceism, how ’bout having a real debate on issues without out the “racist” canard being attached to ideas we may disagree with?
“from before you cannonize Byrd.”
I did not cannoize Byrd – personally I do not like ANY of the good old boy network – Rep or Dem.
It is, however, disengenuous to suggest that the Democrats are the party of racism.
You may remember that the Southern Democrats flipped to the Republican Party after the Civil Rights Act of 1965.
The party of Lincoln has now become the party of Richard Shelby – (R- Alabama)
Let’s not pretend that the Democrats are the racist party – the GOP has a lock on that distinction.
cosmos:
“Horton was convicted as an ACCOMPLICE to a felony murder, NOT for murder, as Bush I claimed.”
They’re legally the same thing. An accomplice is just as guilty as a principle. In for a penny, in for a pound.
WS -
I’ve not said the dems are a racist party. neither is a racist party. I’ve said, and I’ll stand behind, that Dems are quick and effective at playing the race card, knowing full well the accusation is damning without any evidence.
When it come to Willie Horton, let’s remember that it was not a Dukakis plan that allowed him to be released, it was his Republican predecessors program that allowed murderers to be given weekend passes.
Back in the South in the 40s a lot of people joined the Klan. If they subsequently ‘grew up’ that should be put behind them.
This is getting ridiculous.
Lott’s crime was saying nice things to an old man at his birthday party. Gosh, how horrible.
I’ll be the first to call real racism what it is. But we throw the label around so easily (usually for self-serving purposes – yes, that’s Sharpton and Jackson as masters of that tactic) that it loses any real meaning.
So Biden put his foot in his mouth. ALL of us have, at one point or another, meant one thing and said another; we just don’t have the misfortune of doing it on national television. Those of you without sin, throw the first stone.
Let’s focus on real issues, not this sideshow.
Nixion made the exact mistake the democrats are making now. He took the black vote for granted because he had received it in the last election. Kennedy’s intervention in releasing Martin Luther King Jr. influenced his father to switch his backing from the GOP to demos. He took the black vote with him.
Actually Thurmmond swithched from the democrats to the dixiecrats along with other big democrats. All of this aside we need to find a qualified candidate and put them in office in 2009.
agreed GMC – Biden swallowed his foot at least to the knee.
CapnYou are wrong.Floyd Brown ran a completely independent tv spot, through his own organization, that showed the Willie Horton morph you speak of.I think the Brown advertising was fair, but those who don’t like the adverting which morphed Hortons face into Dukakis should vent your anger towards Brown, or Al Gore!
The Bush camp NEVER showed Horton’s face in any approved advertising that I am aware of.
Al Gore was the first to bring up Willie Horton, during a debate with Dukakis in the Dem Primary.
Floyd Brown heard that Al Gore remark, and Brown went into op-research mode and found out the details.
I ate lunch with Floyd Brown at the old “Gilbert and Mosely” bar in Wichita. Brown told me EXACTLY how he came up with his idea.By the way, Brown is not a racist either, but he is responsible for the advertising that you don’t like!
—–
By the way, Trent Lott is not a racist. All Trent Lott did was praise an old man who had a racist past.Bill Clinton repeatedly praises former Ark politician, Senator J. William Fulbright.Fulbright was a staunch segregationist.Nobody in the media has ever questioned Bill Clinton over his praise for Fulbright.Clinton has called Fulbright his “mentor.”—WSclarkDukakis was responsible for Horton’s release.Get over it.Also, Dukakis expanded the prison furlough program far beyond the program of the previous Governor, and Dukakis gave the program very little oversight, and Dukakis appointed the boards that oversaw the programs.
Paul, you are 99.99 percent full of shit – as usual – go back to muddying the waters for the Sedgwick Country GOP.
I met Floyd Brown many years ago in California at a meeting. He bragged about how much money he got from various right-wing organizations including the Scaife group. Also about his connections with the RNC.
BenYou know it would not be legal for Brown to co-ordinate his independent advertising with any other candidate.What Brown did, Brown did on his owh.Yes, Brown has a huge following, but candidates are not responsible for independent advertising.Again,AL GORE DREW “FIRST BLOOD” ON WILLIE HORTON!
Ben what you are saying – in a conversation that might or might not have happened – Floyd Brown admitted he worked for some right wing organizations. Did he also say that he never worked for left wing groups. If not then what is your point – he was a man whose advertising talent was for hire.
OK, meeting over. Back to our regularly scheduled combat.
Here’s the text of the RNC Corker ad, and analysis by Josh Marshall and John Geer of Vanderbilt University.
(UNKNOWN): Harold Ford looks nice, isn’t that enough?
(UNKNOWN): Terrorists need their privacy.
(UNKNOWN): When I die, Harold Ford will let me pay taxes again.
(UNKNOWN): Ford’s right. I do have too many guns.
(BLONDE WOMAN WITH BARE SHOULDERS AND NO VISIBLE CLOTHING): I met Harold at the Playboy party.
(UNKNOWN): I’d love to pay higher marriage taxes.
(UNKNOWN): Canada can take care of North Korea. They’re not busy.
(UNKNOWN): So he took money from porn movie producers? I mean, who hasn’t?
(LAUGHTER)
(UNKNOWN): The Republican National Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.
(BLONDE WOMAN WITH BARE SHOULDERS AND NO VISIBLE CLOTHING): Harold, call me. (Winks at camera)
“Critics said the ad, which is funded by the Republican National Committee and has aired since Friday, plays on fears of interracial relationships to scare some white voters in rural Tennessee to oppose Democratic Rep. Harold E. Ford Jr. Ford is locked in a tight race, hoping to become the first African American senator since Reconstruction to represent a state in the former Confederacy. “It is a powerful innuendo that plays to pre-existing prejudices about African American men and white women,” said Hilary Shelton, head of the Washington office of the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People, the country’s oldest civil rights organization.
[...]
John Geer, a Vanderbilt University political scientist who published a book this year on attack ads, “In Defense of Negativity,” said he had watched the anti-Ford spot repeatedly in recent days. “I just couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he said. “I don’t see how you can think it’s not playing a racial card. It’s making references to interracial sex. It’s an ad that is in some sense breaking new lows.”
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/10/ford_attack_ad_racist/
Duh. Obviously, it implies that Harold Ford Jr, who is black, has had sex with a white woman. And it is meant to appeal to those who find this objectionable. Duh.
***********************************
Here’s the other ad, which is from the Corker campaign itself. It’s a radio spot which plays African drums in the background every time Harold Ford is mentioned. By contrast, when Bob Corker is mentioned, ’soaring music’ plays in the background.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/oct/25/tn_sen_corker_radio_ad_has_tom_tom_drums_during_mentions_of_ford
**********************************
Your guilty conscience about the Republican use of anti-black racism, GMC70, will probably lead you to employ your usual tactics of denial and minimization. These have been evident in your other posts upthread. In particular, there’s the phony equivalence between the parties, as if the last forty years of national life haven’t happened.
There’s an easy way to decide which party tries to benefit from antiblack racism and which doesn’t: which one elects black representatives at the national level, and which one appoints them to non-elective positions? This is the measure of which party actually makes it their business to represent the interests of the majority of black voters.
And, finally, there’s NO comparison between using racist stereotypes as a tool to influence voters (which is racist), as opposed to calling out racist practices when and how they occur (this is not racist). The fact that Republicans try to claim these two are equivalent shows their genius at painting themselves as the victims of those who, en masse, they have been advantaged by victimizing.
krgrm,
Yeah, Democrats are so in danger of taking black votes for granted that they’ve appointed the following African-Americans to House leadership positions and Committee Chairmanships:
-James Clyburn, House Majority Whip
-John Conyers, House Judiciary Committee Chair
-Charles Rangel, House Ways and Means Committee
-Benny Thompson, House Committee on Homeland Security
-Juanita Millender-McDonald, House Committee on House Administration
http://www.house.gov/house/CommitteeWWW.shtml
Your Repubican narrative on race is showing its age, ksgrm. Time for post-election 2006 spin.
When it comes to race, we Democrats certainly aren’t perfect. But we have a hell of a lot more to be proud of, and a hell of a lot less to apologize for, then the Republican Party.
Yes, he stated that he exclusively worked the right. And yes, it did happen. (This was at a talk-show host convention in Santa Monica)
Ben Huie,
Nice one. Should be amusing to watch ksgrm try to impugn your word.
CF
I have exactly ZERO guilt. I won’t accept you impuning any. I’ll take that apology in Bud Light, thanks.
As to Corker:1) The add played on Ford’s (deserved) reputation as a playboy. And guess what? The Playboy mansion has pretty blonds. Duh. You want to read more, that’s your problem, not mine. Sounds like Geer has the guilty conscience (or – gasp – an agenda of his own!!??).
2) I heard the “drums” spot. Have you? Listened to it three times, to try to hear the “jungle drums.” P-lease!! Do you not recognize timanes when you hear them? and yes, “soaring music” accompanies the candidate. Duh. He’s portraying himself in a positive light. Portraying that ad as an example of racist advertising is the smelliest load of diaper doo I’ve heard. You’re better than that, CF. 1 is arguable, maybe. 2 is pure democratic demagoguery.
The dems use the black vote even as they take it for granted, throwing enough bones to blacks to keep them beholden. Real power? Nah.
Neither party is perfect. But Republicans need to stop apologizing for unfounded accusations and call the race card, played by the left, what it is. The Democrats don’t serve the interests of black America; it’s the other way around. Black America serves the interest of the democratic party. And that’s sad.
That’s “blondes.” A blonde moment, perhaps.
Hank what was wrong with Lott’s remarks was that he said he should have been president THEN, and that they stood behind him THEN. This wasn’t some pat on the back for his entire career, he was specifically referring to that low point in his life when his politics were all about suppressing the blacks. THAT is what was so wrong about it.
And what he stood for then was nothing but massive separation and racism. That is why the dixiecrat party broke away from the other parties in the first place- the only reason Strom was a candidate in the first place.
Trent’s actual quote, in case you forgot.
“I want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn’t have had all these problems over all these years, either,”
Lott wasn’t merely expressing like for the man, he was expressing loyalty to the IDEALS he held at that time.
“You’re better than that CF.”
Well as long as we are experiencing lowered expectations of one another….
GMC? The pretty blonde ad was LOW and DIRTY and RACIST. It played to the deepest of southern prejudices. I’m surprised you condone that.
tymannies?
I THINK you mean typanies. I cannot be sure and I have not heard that add.
A tympany is your “drum roll” fanfare type of instrument. It does not seem a likely underscore for face time of one’s political opponent! It CAN be used to imply something sinister… WIthout seeing the ad I cannot say for sure but given the nature of the other ad? I’d have to think the possibility that African drums were hinted at is possible.
And the parties? One (Dems) exploits the misery the other (Republican) creates.
“And the parties? One (Dems) exploits the misery the other (Republican) creates.”
That pretty much sums it up.
Bullshit PM,
Trent Lott was a very good friend of Strom Thurman. Strom Thurman was a very honorable man. He ran for president in 1948. He was a much loved Senator from from South Carolina by all of his constituents.
It was Stroms 100th birthday party and Trent Lott was giving a tribute to an old friend. Probably the last birthday party for an old and loved friend. Nothing he said was racist.
The fact that the dems took Lott’s words then translated them to be somethng racist is pathetic. If you don’t likd Lott beat him with your ability to make the people like your ideas more than his.
Pathetic. Sad and pathetic. Sad that the democrats would stoop so low nd pathetic that the republicans would let them try and destroy one honorable man by useing the birthday tribute for another loved and honorable man.
I don’t think poor ol’ Joe is racist, he’s arrogant and stupid.
Hank
Strom Thurmond a loved man I’ll give you.
I clearly have something of higher standards for “honorable”. You got some pretty questionable heroes there Hank.
CF what I said and I will say it again. Racism is alive and well in some places and is hardly a blip on the radar in others. I think race is something we are born with and often wonder why you are still asked your race when filling out some forms. Is my neice who is bi-racial white or black. There are equal parts. What race is my nephew who is black, native american and white?
My point is that is is a stupid discussion small minded men and women will always make small minded statements and have to eat their words but unless we learn from the last 40 years and move on we are doomed to keep repeating what has happened in the past.
Biden made a really dumb statement before he engaged his brain, Lott made the same kind of statement. I don’t think either of them is racist.
Lets move on. We have a presidential election looming somewhere out there.
…remembers TV Star Trek show where one race had white on right side and black on other side of face. They hated the race that had black on the right side and white on the left…Then there was Spock…:-)…
What were the values that Strom ran on during the race where Trent Lott supported him so wildly, and claims to this day that we’d be better off if those values were elected?
Come on Hank.
Trent Lott could have said anything else about Strom’s career. Anything at all not related to that time of his life.
But he didn’t. And that is what is key in what he said.
And what party did Strom die as a part of? The man so biggoted at one time that he ran on the platform of segregation and domination of blacks? The same party as Trent Lott, the republican party.
And no, I’m not at all proud of Bird’s past either, but at least he was only a kid.
“I’m not impressed with the republican nominees either and right now think a good independent candidate might be in order.”
Be careful what you wish for, germ, remember Ross Perot?
Lott made the mistake of apologizing. Groveling is a better word for what he did. After that, it was blood in the water for the media sharks.
He would have had my eternal respect if he had stood his ground and told the media to; “stick it, you know I didn’t mean anything racist”. But alas, he didn’t.
Steven you are so right. I try to forget Perot as often as I can.
Strom Thurman . . . isn’t he the one that knocked up his family’s black maid?
Not good enough to eat with, or marry, or be seen with in public, but good enough to have sex with.
As Al Franken used to say, imitating Strom, “the pecka . . . it knows no bigahtry.”
Isn’t it odd that Strom Thurmond was an actual senator in the modern times and no one went after him or his state but instead skewered a guy who really said nothing wrong at his birthday party. Where is black power in SC? There is no real positive black power…they lead from the rear. They have no vision for getting past their history. For God sake, don’t they know that if they would just step up and work and live like they want something more for themselves than being a victim that they’ll find out just how much no one gives a shit about their skin color. Isn’t the biggest prejudice we feel in our white hearts have to do with our not wanting to listen to or deal with the black victim whining. It is for me. I just don’t care to hear it. My life has plenty of struggles, none of which will be solved by my whining to other races, etc.It is this dynamic that causes me to ignore the blacks politically. We were all raised to fix our own shit. Blacks are raised to believe they cannot fix their own shit. This is their problem, not mine. Isn’t Barrack Obama different from most blacks? Isn’t he? Yes. I mean on a prominent level. Of course there are millions of talented, articulate, clean, black men. But where are they on the national political scene? Obama doesn’t run around speaking in rhyme, alliteration, chanting enraging charges of bigotry, etc.Blacks suck as a social citizen. It is unfortunate that I lump them together I guess because it is the individual we should judge. Which makes my next point – what Biden said about Obama was true and friendly. He was speaking of a black senator…of which there have been very few. Is Biden supposed to pretend that Obama is just one of many? He’s not. In fact, Obama is the first of his kind from my perspective….well, second, Colin Powell was an articulate man too.Do we think Sharpton speaks any other language than Brooklyn? Does Jesse Jackson speak any other language than divisivemess? What the hell was he doing when he called for the boycott of Seinfeld 7th season? Was that rhetoric uniting or divisive? Did the mistake of Michael Richards really call for JEsse to call for a punitive punishment.Okay – my real point is emerging. I think white people are being duped. We are lying down and apologizing for something that WE (the living) did not do. We are letting illegal immigrants enter and accuse us of racism…so we buckle. We let Sharpton and Jackson tell us how bad we are…and we lay down and take it.Look at Biden? He spoke truthfully about something he felt…none of it was negative. It was a praising statement of Obama.But my oh my, on this very blog, white people are arguing about race and intent when we should be reminding ourselves that we need to protect our political system, our laws, and our neighborhoods from being overrunn by people we feel so so sorry for that we let them run over us.Come on, Mexican immigrants have no clue about modern world living…they should be forced to abide by the law…not have the laws changed to meet their 3rd world perspectives.Blacks, they just need to take a large boat and go visit Africa to see just what they are missing. America will never be perfect. Our best and worst occured over 200 years ago. Why are we still fighting about it?I don’t care about blacks, whites, or anyone other than my family.To hell with all this ass kissing politically correct crap.Obama needs Bill Cosby to help him write his agenda.
I would say Jim, if Strom kept saying things like he did back then, he would have been admonished for it.
Strom had been marginalized, he wasn’t the leader of the party.
Strom didn’t refer back to when he was a racist. Trent did.
But I do agree with some of your points. Bill Cosby and Obama should lead the blacks into true equality, and get rid of Jackson and Sharpton.
Could Obama be the modern day Martin Luther King?
I would be thrilled beyond words to see Colin Powell join them.
I did see a report today that most blacks do see the harm some within their own groups are causing. Some 60% see women portrayed in rap videos as demeaning to their race.The majority saw rap music as a dividing force rather than unifying.
GMC70,
“They’re legally the same thing. An accomplice is just as guilty as a principle. In for a penny, in for a pound.”
Are you arguing voter reaction is the “same” for “murderer” vs “accomplice sitting outside in a getaway car during a robbery”?
IIRC, Bush Sr. falsely said in campaign speeches that Horton had murdered AGAIN after escaping the release program. Horton committed rape, NOT murder, after escaping.
The Bush Sr. campaign also changed Horton’s name from “William” to “Willie”.
Lee Atwater later apologized for using Horton.
Econ101, aka mailto:paulrosell@sbcglobal.net
“Al Gore was the first to bring up Willie Horton, during a debate with Dukakis in the Dem Primary.”
Paul F. Rosell keeps on LYING!Gore only said that 2 furloughed prisoners had committed new MURDERS while on leave. Gore did NOT mention names, or race — and IIRC, both prisoners were white.
Horton committed rape, NOT murder, after escaping.
…Democratic Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis was the governor of Massachusetts at the time, and while he did not start the furlough program, he had supported it as a method of criminal rehabilitation. The State inmate furlough program was actually signed into law by Republican Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. However, in 1976, Governor Dukakis vetoed a bill that would have made inmates convicted of first-degree murder ineligible for furloughs. The program remained in effect through the intervening term of governor Edward J. King and was abolished during Dukakis’s final term of office on April 28, 1988. This abolition only occurred after the Lawrence Eagle Tribune had run 175 stories about the furlough program and won a Pulitzer Prize. Dukakis continued to argue that the program was 99% effective, yet as the Lawrence Eagle Tribune pointed out, in no other state or in the federal furlough program would a prisoner serving life without parole as Horton was be eligible for a furlough….
germ:”I try to forget Perot as often as I can.”
Doing so puts you at peril, my friend.
Sheesh, Paul, get a yahoo account.
It’s not hard.
Agree or disagree, I’m kinda surprised that CF’s point seems so hard to get.
“Clean and articulate” is dismissive, predictable phraseology, delivered from on high. Jackson and Sharpton are, of course, clean and articulate. I have serious doubts about both, but I don’t judge them as “black politicians.” I judge them as politicians.
I’m sure Biden doesn’t consider himself racist (in fact, I think he wants very much to be anti-racist), but one could hardly make a more shallow, substance-free assessment of Obama’s appeal. Articulate?: Uhm, hell yeah, in spades. More so than Biden.
But also “articulate” were Jackson, and Sharpton, and even Obama’s Senate opponent, Alan Keyes. And “clean”?? Biden would have at least been okay if he’d stuck with articulate. Open mouth, insert foot.
Perhaps this little tidbit might serve to illustrate the issue:
“‘He commented on how articulate I had been in the presentation,’ recalls Perdue, now executive director of the Johnetta B. Cole Global Diversity & Inclusion Institute at Bennett College for Women in Greensboro, N.C. Perdue, who is black, was the only woman at the company who managed major accounts. ‘I asked if he had ever commented to my three peers [all white men] that they were articulate and well-spoken … He gasped.’”
http://www.diversityinc.com/public/355.cfm
Try “eloquent,” next time Joe, though even Jesse and Al are occasionally capable of that, too.
RageAs reported on a previous thread, I at first thought that posting here under a false name was cowardly.However, some smart-ass “troll” posted statements in here that were very harmful to my business.I don’t care that you know who I am.I just want a bit more protection from pretenders and trolls.Until the Eagle sees fit to increase the security on these Blogs, maybe forcing all of us to open up individual accounts with passwords, I will do it this way.
I like the moniker, Econ.
It prompts me to write that a course in economics should be required for all adults. To my knowledge, it IS required at KU and WSU (even for the most liberal of degree paths).
Rage gets it. Most of the other folks here seem not to. So allow me to cut and paste from Steve Gilliard, who is black, by the way, as to why Biden’s comments are highly offensive in their implications.
***********************************
http://www.thenewsblog.net
“Some white people may be confused on what doesn’t constitute a compliment. So let me illustrate what minorities think when the following is said.”
[Steve Gilliard then follows each typical white 'compliment' with its unspoken black response.]
1) You are well spoken
Oh, really. I guess those years I spent in college were well spent. Stupid motherf*cker, when did you ever meet an accountant who say “yo dog, let me see your files”
2)You speak English so well
Yes, most Ivy grads do, you moron. You know, not-white people have been here for a few hundred years
3) You’re really articulate
Really? I guess that must be rare on Harvard Law Review.
4) Wow, you play……where did you learn that
Between crack deals with my mom’s boyfriend, you ignorant f*ck.
5) You’re not like those others
Filthy f*cking niggers which destroy everything.”
***********************************
I gather that black folks know very well the code that is used to refer to them. They ought to; they’ve heard it all their lives. Nobody on this blog is a ‘racist.’ Of course; nobody ever is. But everyone here would do well to think about how language is used, and what assumptions are made when it is used. People don’t have to use ethnic slurs to be racists, folks.
GMC70,
So, the Corker attack ad against Harold Ford was merely ‘funny’ because, you know, blonde white women just ‘happen’ to be at the Playboy Mansion? And I’m projecting MY racist attitudes if I see it as an attempt to stoke fears of miscegenation?
This refusal to acknowledge the OVERT implications is tantamount to GMC70 sticking his fingers in his ears and repeating ‘I don’t hear you!’ over and over again.
Are you really that dumb, GMC70? Or are you really that dishonest?
This post doesn’t mention Floyd Brown, but is pretty good history on Horton:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton
If the Corker ad had used a Black woman, would that have changed anything? I suspect the howls would have been even louder.
Listen to the CONs with their supercilious nonsense, “if only people knew the field of economics like we do, then they’d agree with us.”
Yeah, you betcha. Paul Krugman knows something of economics since it’s his area of expertise at Princeton University and he’s the NY Times’ leading liberal.
Tax breaks for the rich don’t work, except to massively increase the national debt.
Reagan proved that once. GW Bush is proving it again.
You don’t have to have studied economics (even though I have) to see the result of Reagan-Bush-Bush and the stratospheric rise in the national debt.
It’s simple cause to effect.
“Tax breaks for the rich don’t work, except to massively increase the national debt.”
Now you are just making stuff up. Tax revenues increase. It’s the spending that increases debt, dope.
I disagree cf. Some people go around and spend their time looking for something to be offended at. I know some. It isn’t a racial characteristic, it is a personal characteristic. It’s the difference between a negative person and a positive person who realizes you can’t know another person’s motivation, and you certainly can’t control them.
fleet, would you agree that in your analysis that spending for “guns and butter” much as during the Viet Nam excursion and the Johnson Administration and the current use of supplementals in Iraq would be included in increase of the debt?
And, I do not say that you agree with this, but do you agree that the so-called “Laffer Curve”, when carried to its logical conclusion, totally eliminates revenue from tax collections?
VT – actually, the Laffer Curve, IF APPLIED CORRECTLY, does not call for ever-decreasing tax rates. It notes that if rates are too high that revenues decline; however it also notes that if rates are too low they also decline. It shows an optimum exists.
I don’t have my old Econ 101 text with me here but it is in there. (and my text was written by a conservative who once was an advisor to Bush 1)
Agreed, Ben; however, there are many who don’t do the “Applied Correctly” thing. I had a discussion once with a ‘true believer’ who insisted that the optimum for all concerned was a zero tax rate, which would result in infinite revenues (or revenues approaching infinity). *Sigh*
Thanks for pointing out that there is an optimum point, when the Laffer Curve is correctly applied, for revenue maximization. This point seems to be misunderstood by many in the debate over tax cuts.
From Wikipedia, “Laffer Curve”–
“The satire illustrates the major fallacy commonly committed with the Laffer curve, namely the assumption that the middle is a smooth, concave function merely because the two extreme endpoints [a 0 percent tax rate leads to 0 taxes and a 100 percent tax rate leads to 0 taxes] are well-defined. A realistic tax curve would most certainly not resemble a smooth parabola or even any other simple function, but rather a very complex curve with many peaks, valleys, and multiple local maxima. Inside the middle, a wide range of various economic factors confound any simplistic attempt at this interpolation.
“As a pedagogical tool, a Laffer curve helps illustrate a specific application of the law of diminishing returns, where the inhibitory cost of taxes may eventually outweigh the increased rate of taxation, and thus led to a counterintuitive lower realization of tax revenue. However the Laffer curve should not be taken as a literal model for a tax revenue curve, especially in debates between relatively moderate amounts of taxation. It is in this context that the Laffer curve is often abused, taken as a serious model for tax revenue when it has little to no predictive value in debates between intermediary rates of taxation.
Estimates of the effectiveness of the Laffer curve
“In 2005, the Congressional Budget Office released a paper called “Analyzing the Economic and Budgetary Effects of a 10 Percent Cut in Income Tax Rates” [2] that casts doubt on the idea that tax cuts ultimately improve the government’s fiscal situation. Unlike earlier research, the CBO paper estimates the budgetary impact of possible macroeconomic effects of tax policies, i.e., it attempts to account for how reductions in individual income tax rates might affect the overall future growth of the economy, and therefore influence future government tax revenues; and ultimately, impact deficits or surpluses. The paper’s author forecasts the effects using various assumptions (e.g., people’s foresight, the mobility of capital, and the ways in which the federal government might make up for a lower percentage revenue). Even in the paper’s most generous estimated growth scenario, only 28% of the projected lower tax revenue would be recouped over a 10-year period after a 10% across-the-board reduction in all individual income tax rates. The paper points out that these projected shortfalls in revenue would have to be made up by federal borrowing: the paper estimates that the federal government would pay an extra $200 billion in interest over the decade covered by his analysis. To support these calculations, the paper assumes that the 10% reduction in individual tax rates would only result in a 1% increase in gross national product, a figure some economists consider too low for current marginal tax rates in the United States.”
******
In other words, cutting taxes doesn’t raise more tax revenue, just as any common sense thought would lead you to conclude.
Maybe Paul Roselle should have taken Econ 102 as well . . .
“Are you really that dumb, GMC70? Or are you really that dishonest?”
Neither, CF. But I also don’t wear offense on my sleeve, and don’t level serious charges (racist, about as serious a smear as can be placed on someone) without serious evidence. In Corker case the charge just “happened” to benefit the democratic candidate. Coincidence, I’m sure (not). I’d note the web site you refered me to agreed with MY position on that ad, not yours!! And as fleet noted (not the most articulate poster, certainly, see below), would the message of the ad have changed if a lovely black woman did the tag line at the end? I don’t think so.
You’ve raised the terms “articulate” and “clean” as Biden used them, and wondered if we’d use those words with white candidates. “Articulate” (Absolutely!! You, CF, are articulate. Many posters here are not. Obama is certainly articulate; GW Bush is not. Your point?”Clean”? Not a term I probably would have used, but Obama is clean in the sense that he comes to the national audience without a lot of history and baggage, and that he will be able to make his own image (unlike, say, Sharpton or Jackson, who already have public images they cannot escape). Biden made the mistake of speaking off the cuff in making a compliment. If he had sat down and wrote out his statement, he probably would have used different words. But is there malicious intent there? I don’t think so; I suspect neither do you. But it is in the interests of others to attach malicious intent to the comment to eliminate a rival. And you fell for it.
Speaking of Sharpton and Jackson, it is YOU who attach the “pimp” and “huckster” label to them, not I. What I said, and I will stand behind, is that they use racial issues and racial offense, real or imagined, not to advance the standing of black Americans but to advance their own interests. In Sharpton’s case, especially, his history shows that to be the case (never let the facts get in the way of bashing the “man,” ya know).
Am I perfect. No. Neither are you. So step down off that high horse, buddy. Join us mere mortals who occasionally simply mispeak, or get misunderstood – or, as is often the case, get used.
re: Laffer. The common example used by the conservatives if JFK cutting the high rates inherited from Eisenhour. As I recall the rates had been something like 90% and Kennedy cut them to something like 70%. That cut stimulated activity; that indicates that we were on the ‘deminishing returns’ part of the curve.
However, just as saying “2 aspirin is good 4 aspirin is twice as good” is not valid; so extrapolating JFK’s results to say that cutting from 35% to 20% is good.
GMC asks, “But is there malicious intent there? I don’t think so . . . ”
You’re right that it’s not malicious in the sense that he was trying to hurt Obama.
It is a freudian slip that reveals a way of thinking.
You don’t say to your fellow attorneys, “you speak very good English.” You only say that to people that you don’t expect to speak good English, like a foreign student or a tourist from Italy . . .
Likewise, you don’t call somebody “clean” unless you have some expectation of them being dirty.
You don’t walk into the lobby of the Ritz Carlton and say, “my, isn’t this clean!”
Next time your wife asks you how she looks, try saying “clean, honey, you look clean.”
See if she takes it as the compliment you claim it to be . . .
Ben, both the rate cuts and the introduction of the Investment Tax Credit were the major pieces of tax legislation enacted during JFK’s administration; both of which, along with a change in depreciation coupled with depreciation recapture, provided a needed boost in economic activity.
Pamela Anderson . . . damn, is that woman . . . uh . . . you know . . . clean.
I recall reading in James Gleick’s “Genius” (biography of Richard Feynman), that–in the 1940s–some jews were regarded as “nice” or “clean” (as compared with those other ones). In America, at the very time were fighting an anti-Semitic regime in Europe.
Biden needs to be more articulate, ya know.
…that car has clean lines…He’s been searched Detective, he’s clean…He has a clean record, nothing from the FBI database…He got his clocked cleaned…Cleanliness is next to Godliness…He looked like Mr. Clean with the white shirt and pants, bald head…He kept it clean, it was a good joke…PoetryHe was a gentleman sole to crownClean favored and imperially slim…It was a cleanly written program…Morally pure, lead a virtuous life, clean…played a clean game of poker…:-)…
You can shine a light clean through …’s head.
CF,I am a racist. There are many things about black culture and Hispanic culture that I do not want to understand. The ebonics thing is disgraceful to blacks. I would not hire a mumble mouthed black kid. Where do mumble mouthed black people go to be respected? Not to white people.I would like to know who truly fits the definition of not being a racist?I am a fair minded person, trusting to a fault, wouldn’t hurt a flea, but I don’t have to like blacks to be a good person. In fact, I think I am a damn good person and when I talk to a mumble mouthed black person…I do not think they are worth a shit.
Capn-whatever:
But if she starts a new job, she gets a “clean” slate. Or a new dress may have “clean” lines.
Depends on the atribute that “clean” refers to. In Obama’s case, I suspect, he has the proverbial “clean slate,” in that he has little preconceived baggage, and can create his own image to the public. That is, of course, also ultimately his Achilles heel; he has no record of accomplishment.
It’s not the best choice of words, I’ll admit. But as someone who on a nearly daily basis has to stand before an audience and find the right words (and sometimes it’s incredibly hard, too), I have some sympathy for someone who in the moment uses a word that on reflection he wouldn’t have chosen.
In any case, just what has Obama, a junior senator with all of 2 years in the Senate under his belt, done to be Presidential timber? For that matter, what has Hillary done, aside from hitch her wagon to the right man and parachute, carpetbag and all, into New York?
Richardson is the Dem’s best candidate.
Back to the tax cuts = more revenue. This is a simple thing to see. Everytime it’s happened, the revenues go up. The Laffer curve is real, as far as I know.It only makes sense.The original statement that tax cuts causes high debt is (shall I say) stupid. What it causes is more money in the Treasury, to a point. What it comes down to is, it’s our money. Over spending is what causes the debt. The Repubs blew it there.
Laffer Curve: With increasing tax rates “tax revenue first rises, then falls.” The accompanying figure shows an inverted parabola; not a monotonic curve.
“Subsequent history failed to confirm Laffer’s conjecture that lower tax rates would raise tax revenues. When Reagan cut taxes after he was elected, the result was less tax revenue, not more. revenue from personal income taxes (adjusted for inflation) fell by 9 percent from 1980 to 1984, even though average income grew by 4 percent over this period. Throughout Reagan’s two terms in office, and for many years thereafter, the government ran large budget deficits.”
pages 170-171, Principles of Economics, N. Gregory Mankiw.
Jim G,
You said it yourself: you’re a racist. Nothing for me to add–other than that you are no credit to your race.
GMC70,
“In Corker case the charge just “happened” to benefit the democratic candidate. Coincidence, I’m sure (not). I’d note the web site you refered me to agreed with MY position on that ad, not yours.”
How, pray tell, did the charges implied by the ad–that Harold Ford Jr, who is black, has sex with blonde white women–benefit the ‘Democratic candidate’ in an election held in the state of Tennessee?
You’re right: the commentator on the link agreed with your interpretation. It was the only place I could find the full text. You’ll also note, however, that the commentator conveniently omitted any description of the ‘people’ expressing opinions about Harold Ford, and he also omitted that the blonde, apparently nude woman said that Ford was to ‘call me any time!’ followed by a wink.
I mean, please. The message of the ad ABSOLUTELY would have changed if the ‘come hither’ had been issued by a black woman. Duh. That would have been no big deal. But for a white woman to insinuate that she’s already had sex with a black man, and that it was SO good that he should ‘call me anytime?’
I never said you were a racist, GMC70. I have no way of knowing whether you’re a racist or not. But I feel quite confident in my assertion that the Republican Party knowingly uses anti-black stereotypes and racial fears (specifically miscegenation) to mobilize part of its voting base. The facts are in, GMC70. What are Republicans going to do about it?
YOUR “facts” are in, CF. Not “the” facts. There is a difference.
Folks, CF and Co. brings generous helpings of racial guilt, brought to you by those who cannot tell the difference between tympanis and “jungle drums.” Or, in truth, they can tell the difference, but when it suits their purposes, those tympanies become, in cooperative media and compliant blogs, “jungle drums.” How convenient. And the smear goes on.
How did the contrived controversy benefit the Ford? Simple. The charge that the ad was “racist” got more attention than the ad itself. And the charge carried the wanted message: that Corker was a racist, smearing the “other” side. Thankfully, a majority of the good folks of Tennessee saw through the BS. The “message” of the ad was that Ford was playboy. The ad, playfully, told that message.
BTW, Capn-whatever: You wrote that: “You don’t say to your fellow attorneys, “you speak very good English.” You only say that to people that you don’t expect to speak good English, like a foreign student or a tourist from Italy . . . “There are a number of attorneys and judges I would absolutely say that about, and others who are NOT articulate at all. Most people, of either stripe, are not very articulate, at least, and many politicians aren’t, at least once you separate them from their prepared statements and handlers. I’ve made exactly the same comment agout Obama; in fact, it was exactly that quality that made him a good choice and such a hit at the convention speech which brought him national attention. I’m certain that when his name came up for consideration, his ability to be articulate was high on the list of qualities they were looking for in a speaker.
CF:Your “confident” assertion is tired, unfounded stereotypes, without substantial basis in fact. And your high horse is getting tired, CF. Step off.
GMC70,
All you’ve demonstrated is your denial of what are widely acknowledged to be racist attacks. Whether you’re blind or disingenuous is an issue for you to decide.
Black men + white women = racist red meat. To act like that isn’t the case in America is like denying that you breathe air or saying the sky isn’t blue. For sensitivity training, GMC70, I recommend you watch the greatest movie ever made about race in America: “Blazing Saddles.”
I do find it amusing the lengths to which white Republicans will go to try to turn back the accusations of racism and to blame the victim. Methinks they doth protest too much.
Yup, GMC’s an attorney.
Whenever they get backed into a corner, they just start equivocating on what “is” is.
It’s what you’d expect from people who are paid to lie for a living.
What did your wife say when you told her she looked “clean?”
Capn -
Careful – your ignorance is showing. Again.
CF – Methinks I’m tired of rolling over and ceding the “high ground” to professional offense-takers.
Referring to your penchant for equivocation (granted, it’s a professional skill carefully honed), you equated the sentence “you speak English well” to “you are articulate.”
Very different statements. One would never say the former to a native English speaker except as a kind of insult.
That’s the irony of learning a language really well. If you speak a second language like a native speaker, no one says, “you speak my language well,” because they have no reason to think that you aren’t a native speaker.
As for what your wife said, just answer the question, GMC.
GMC70,
Methinks I’m tired of Republicans standing on plausible deniability and ‘if you can’t prove I didn’t see it then I didn’t see it’ as argumentative tactics.
Or, to put it differently, the now-customary Repubican ‘who are you gonna believe–me or your lyin’ eyes?’ insistence that even though it may walk and quack like a duck, it still isn’t a duck.
Bottom line: the left takes offense when it benefits them, and they can use the (usually feined) injury to political advantage. Period. This from the party of Jim Crow.
I got nothing to apologize for, CF. We’ll just have to disagree on this one (among others). Oh well; this is American, after all, where you have the right to be wrong!!
=)
GMC70,
Republicans are the party of anti-black racism. Their racist campaigning and inability to elect black candidates at the national level proves it.
The Republican Party: the Southern white party since the Civil Rights era.
Black men and women have migrated to the Republican Party throughout the years. To make such a wild supposition such as racist campaigning is to show your own prejudice. Perhaps you are not “clean” enough according to Senator Biden.
There are quite a few Black Men and Women who don’t buy into the “Let the nanny Government do your thinking for you” and join the Republican Party.
CF:
That is so only in the eyes of party activists and their compliant echo-chamber. Your saying it does not make it so.
You are a torch-bearer for the party of the race card, played when it suits political interests. Otherwise, you take your black constituency for granted. This from the party of Jim Crow.
But you are an articulate partisan. Gosh – Did I just offend?!
GMC70 and Eier,
Jim Crow ended 40 years ago, when the Democratic Party spearheaded and passed Civil Rights legislation, and dropped the politics of racial exclusion. The Republican Party picked them up and have been wielding ‘em ever since. To great effect, I might add.
You may want to do a little catch-up on the last twenty-five years, starting with Reagan’s reference to ‘States’ Rights’ when he kicked off his 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, MS–where three civil rights workers had been murdered in the 1960’s. Oh, and the translation? “States’ Rights” = the legal rationale for Jim Crow.
Here’s a primer on the matter: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399921,00.html
The Republican Party: mainstreaming anti-black racism for the last forty years.
It always amazes me to see black folks who are willing to join a party that has built much of its success on vilifying them. But there you are.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/08/25/response/
It looks like the author of cf’s link has a history of seeing bigots around every corner.
He’s gone to the “code word” argument.
More Libs credibility = zero = pitiful
fleetwood,
As usual, your attempt to discredit the claim about the racist Republican use of “States’ rights” as code for Jim Crow comes down to a limp attempt at an ad hominem.
And David Horowitz as a credible source?!? Is there a bigger liar out there than professional right-wing victim Horowitz?
My argument stands. The fact that a liar and right-wing nutjob like Horowitz objects does nothing to discredit the meaning of the terms that the GOP uses, and their electoral power.
Oh, and [not so] fleetwood, I know that Republicans are usually smart enough to couch their racism in innocuous-sounding jargon that is invisible to normal folks: we call this the right wing ‘dog whistle’ effect. You folks, after all, have made a cottage industry for marketing experts who are past masters at lying with words. Frank Luntz, anyone?
But occasionally, the mask slips and Republican racism shows itself as plain and unreconstructed. For example:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/26/AR2006102601775.html
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/09/24/allen_football/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/26/politics/main534414.shtml
The Republican Party: standard bearers for racism in the 21st Century.
Oh, and just so you Wingnuts know: I WILL have the last word on this thread. It can go as long as you like: I’ll still win, because I’m right and you’re wrong.
“It always amazes me to see black folks who are willing to join a party that has built much of its success on vilifying them. But there you are.”
Ditto CF on the log cabin republicans. Substitute “gay” for “black” and you have the same thing.
I think it goes waaaaaaay beyond the Stockholm disease.
Why would ANYONE want to be in a party that “has built much of its success on vilifying” other humans?
Why isnt Jan Pauls a republican?
She is really good at the vilifying thing….
Others might view racism as those who support a system which keeps a race or class of system dependent on a Government which provides for them at the poverty line rather than enabling to become self sufficient.There is no right in this argument or this nation. It is which ideals are better for the nation and its citizenry.
WTF does THAT mean?
…and why are you “the trust” here but “the truth” elsewhere and on your email?
Trollsville…
cf-Using the code word argument is the same as just making stuff up. When cf and you people are allowed to define the terms and decide what you wish to say “they” meant, it comes very close to paranoia (it will destroy ya). I think you have confused pandering with trying to help.
farmgirl-What it means to me is, if you make people dependent on you, they will tend to vote for you. Votes = power. It becomes a matter of voting for your own self interests.
sounds like something cruex would say
What’s a cruex?
CF
Have the last word all you like. It matters not. You’ve “won” only in your silly little head. I’ll concede nothing.
fleeeetwoooooooooooooooooooood,
When plausible deniability about Republican dogwhistle racial code is all you have to fall back on, I’d say you’re on your Republican last legs.
It’s a real easy question to answer, which major political party appeals to anti-black racism and the legacy of Jim Crow: the one that doesn’t elect black folks at the national level is the one that still has a problem with black folks.
And that would be…(drum roll) the Republican Party! There is NOT ONE black person, male or female, who is a Republican holding a national elective office. Not one.
There is, however, this HILARIOUS page from the National Black Republican Association, with its paltry list of Repubican black elected officials nationwide. And, as a side note, features merchandise espousing the Repubican LIE that Martin Luther King Jr. was not a Democrat.
http://www.nbra.info/
And here’s the debunking:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR2006101801754.html
When I say that Republicans will lie about anything, it’s for good reason.
fleeetwoooood and GMC70 can play with the spin and pull the ‘who are you gonna believe, me or your lyin’ eyes’ Repubican tactics all they like: the fact is that Repubican racism is dooming their party to permanent minority status. Witness the effect of the anti-immigration antics of Tom Tancredo and others on the willingness of Hispanic folks to vote Republican in 2006. The WaPo says it was a 10-14 point loss.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/17/AR2006111701641.html
Not that I’m complaining.