I had no idea that Marxism was still a threat to our way of life. But as my Friday column notes, the Kansas Chamber of Commerce is supporting a bill to abolish the state’s already rock-bottom $2.65 minimum wage, with a chamber lobbyist saying that wages should be set by the market, not the “socialist teachings of Karl Marx.”
This race to the bottom would place our state among such economic powerhouses as Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee. Impressive company.
Is it such a radical idea to think that someone who works full time for a living should be able to earn enough to make a living?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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111 Comments
The same people who regard a minimum wage as Marxism are the same people who think freeing the slaves is Marxism. Combating poverty is not Marxism but trying to keep the working class poor is the sort of class war that inspires many people to support Marxist ideals for better treatment of workers.
I believe that wage is for those who earn ‘tips’ in addition to their hourly wage.
I never leave less than $3 – and that’s only if I have a quick cup of coffee, or the like. But most often I will leave more than 25 percent of the tab.
There is a method to this madness for an employer – the waitperson tries to better serve the patron – in hopes of larger tips. The base pay is the least of the wages.
Most jobs (non food) don’t allow their employees to take tips. Try tipping a nurse for giving you an injection you couldn’t feel. lol
Allowing tips encourages the person to put forth their best effort, and even then I’m sure we’ve all run into very rude and obnoxious waiters. It’s a high turnover business.
The employee’s true wage is not reflected by the very low starting amount.
Randy,
Is it a radical idea to think that someone should be paid according to the value of the service they provide?
Actually GSheridan, that’s not right.
Waitstaff are paid half rate of the Federal minimum wage.
The IRS is assuming that the waitstaff will at the very least make up the other half of the minimum wage in tip, which you must report and pay taxes on.
But as we all know, especially those who have ever been a waitstaff person, they don’t claim every dollar they get tip. Most of what a good waitstaff person, bartender or whoever recieves tips, most of the money isn’t claimed and therefore tax free.
The Kansas minimum wage and those who earn it, are in the rural areas of Kansas. That’s what farmers pay their laborors and small town restaurants pay their cooks.
You will not find a single person that get’s paid the Kansas minimum wage in Wichita. Actually, you can go to McDonalds and start out between $7 to $8 an hour.
Here is something to know. If your place of business excepts credit cards, you are automatically under the Federal guidlines of minimum wage. Because it is considered Interstate Commerce.
That’s good to know, Joe. I wasn’t aware of either the split for waitpersons, or the retail rule.
In my business (contracting,) employees make quite a bit more, because there is stiff competition to get skilled workers. Everyone is vying to hire the best.
Although, there is a trend gaining momentum – that of not hiring employees, as such, and only hiring them as independent contractors.
This has come as a response to over-the-top Worker’s Comp payments. Supposedly, the employer is then not allowed to set strict schedules – but they do, anyway. Same thing with Beauty Salons – they are going with independent contractors who must generate their own clientèle, rent space, etc. But the salon still insists on specific hours they must work.
I think we will see more of this if the trends towards higher wages and required insurance expenses continue to rise.
At least in the service industry.
Is it such a radical idea to let employers decide how much to pay dependent upon an employee’s attitude, service, work ethic, dependability, good of the company?
Anyone here ever try to fire a union worker?
Isn’t the areana supported by the chamber a Communist proposal. wheres the capitalism in that idea. so the chamber folks are Actaually commies go figure
“small town restaurants pay their cooks.”
Even that isnt true anymore joe. No one in my restaurant, including waitstaff, makes less than $7 per hour. And they keep their tips on top of the wages. They voluntarily share tips with the dishwasher and hostess, and since I am usually the only cook, I never take tips.
I love my employees and I think they earn every penny they get in tips. That’s why I let them keep them all, AND pay them $7 per hour. The result? They are motivated to give great service to get the tips, they are loyal to me because they get to keep them all, and I get great quality employees, all over age 40 except for two, and they are 37 and 18.
It also makes my customers happy to get good service from adults. My waitstaff understand the menu, and they likely tasted everything before their shift started so they can explain the dishes and make recommendations.
Sure, paying those wages cuts into my profit margin, but I have great folks and a fun atmosphere at my place. That brings in more customers, etc.
So joe, even in small towns, if you pay minimum wage, that is what you will get. Minimum employees. Hell, even MCDONALDS here pays $7.25 to start. Better than the local hospital. They have to do that to get and KEEP quality employees.
PS–I have only had two people quit the restaurant in 7 months. One was pregnant, and another was a 17 year old boy who decided he didnt like dishwashing!
If the govt is so good at setting minimum wages, why not set all wages, including those of newspaper editorialists, cartoonists and maybe the price of newspapers.
Why not make everyone rich and require a $100,000 minimum wage.
Farmie,I rarely agree with you, but this is an exception. You obviously run your business like a true capitalist.YOU know what it takes to keep good employees.YOU decide what wages to pay.YOU know best how to run your business.
Government: stay out.
Now, if only you could pick and choose which customers to serve…
Is there a Kansas newspaper anywhere that doesn’t somehow make Der Sturmer seem rational by comparison?
If this is Scholfield’s idea of humor he doesn’t understand it anymore than he understands economics.
it’s one thing for this filthy rag to hire all liberals for their editorial page, but at least they could find one with a brain.
Actually KSGolf, the capitalist market for wages is working, because the vast majority of people work for wages above the minimum wage, even in entry level low-skill labor and fast food positions.
KSfarm, not saying every rural town cafe pays Kansas minimum wage, it is actually quite rare to find a place that does pay that low. It’s just that you won’t find anything like that here in Wichita.
I’m fine with minimum wage and raising it. So long as it doesn’t suprass the supply of the market place. Meaning that you inflate the minimum wage above what the market place calls for, such as raising the mimium wage to $16 an hour.
The governmnet has to keep the minimum wage below market forces, because if it gets above that, you will start having rampet inflation. Sure! You can force companies to pay a person $20 an hour, but they will raise the prices of everything. You’re going to start seeing $8 hamburgers at McDonalds.
Raising the minimum wage is symbolic.
Gentle Ben should change his name to Spittle Flecked Hysterical Ass.
Dude, you have major anger issues. Get a grip.
The Eagle wouldn’t run Molly Ivins for two years because she was “too liberal” and they run Cal Thomas, the most radical reich wing jerk TWICE A WEEK.
You’ve OD’d on your own hate propaganda.
ProudFlesh and Gene RaLston ask:
“Is it a radical idea to think that someone should be paid according to the value of the service they provide?”
No.
But in our society, no one does. It makes absolutely no sense that the CEO of Walmart makes more in two weeks than a floor worker makes in a lifetime.
It makes no sense that the cost of cereal for instance is driven more by packaging and advertising than it is for the cost of the grain. A box of cereal = $2.75 and the grain costs 18 cents.
It makes no sense that the man who sells women (a pimp) or drugs or surplus rifles for a civil war in the Congo should make more money than a grocer (who feeds people) or a teacher (who educates our children).
But that’s the so-called “rationality” of the marketplace.
I think minim wage should be set based on the welfare system in a state, the wage should be just high enough to give the incentive to work. If by going on welfare I would have better health care, more food and a better place to live. Why would I want to work forty hours a week, doing something I may not like or want to do if I would be worst off then being on welfare? Even now at the federal level of minim wage, it still does not add up to the same level of benefits being on welfare does.
Here is proof I do listen to Rush at least once in a while, he read a New York times article about the break down from state to state. How much you would have to make an hour before taxes to equal the benefits of being on welfare in that state. Arkansas was 6.90 an hour on welfare, at the time he was reading this on air.I was making 6.10 an hour here in Kansas, with no medical benefits.
Joe if there were jobs in Wichita that paid the Kansas minim wage you would not hear about them.For those people earning it, computers and internet service is not within their price range. On both the high and low ends of that spectrum, there is a world out there that we in the middle could not even dream of.
Welfare automatically cuts off after two years, Writerdog.
People “living on welfare” is a right-wing myth like “creeping socialism” and the “war on Christmas.”
It’s something used to outrage the sheeple and keep them tuned to Rush O’Hannity, but in reality, it’s nothing.
“Anyone here ever try to fire a union worker?”
Absolutely – many times – all you have to do is document each step of the process within the guidelines of the contract.
Not a problem.
“Anyone here ever try to fire a union worker?”
Do a company wide suprise UA drug test and you can get rid of half the people working in the plant. Reason why companies don’t do that. ;)
Ksfarm girl, you are a good employer.
However, consider Syteve Wynn, one of the richest moguls in LV, who owns multi-billion gaming enterprises. He wants to take the tips away from the dealers and ‘distribute’ them to other employees, (pit bosses), as if the hard earned tips belonged to him and other less diserving individuals.
http://www.wynndealers.com/the-press.htm
The problem as most experts see it–once an employer gets away with this, others will soon follow.
In any society, there are always employers who want to exploit employees, and so this is why we have NRLB, unions and minimum wage guidelines.
Joe Williams At the meetup, I didn’t get a CLOSE look at you. But I was pretty sure the end of your nose was a shade of brown…. Where was I… If you take out the floor that is the minimum wage? ALL wages will fall. Farmgrrl aside, MOST employers are jerks who are all about using their employees as cheaply as possible. They REQUIRE government intervention to force them to be equitable to the folks whose backs they live off.
I was not aware that I am the one who hired the waiter for the job and I’m responsible to pay his salary. If that’s the case then the waiter needs to file the proper tax forms and I must submit the correct tax forms to the government. Also, that will make me a small business owner therefore I should be eligible for tax breaks. Or the state could just abide by the federal minimum wage law.
Not really a problem for me though, I prefer not to go to those businesses that pay their employees less than minimum wage. Screw Applebees and those other greedy corporate SOBs who exploit their employees with substandard wages.
If we left it up to business owners to set their own wages, they would be paying wages like China and India etc. How do you think this country became the greatest country, where do you think the “middle class”came from and why do you think that people from all over the word wanted to come to the United States of America? Because companies paid their employees a good living wage and were rewarded with the most productive employees that stayed at these companies until their retired. It is up to our government to protect us from unscrupulous employers. Remember the Government is “us”, the not the corporations.I know that you are going to say that we live in a global economy now and that we have to compete with countries with lower wages, I say raise those other countries wages and let them compete with us. I’m not finding a great savings on Levi jeans since they move their operation. Are Nike athletic shoes cheaper? No.
Truth be told, labor is a commodity like anything else in our society. Supply and Demand. If supply is low and demand high, high wages, truth be told. If demand is low and supply is high, lower wages.This is the core of the problem with illegal immigration in our nation today truth be told.An artificially high supply of labor is being caused be illegals, truth be told. Driving down wages for decent Americans.The problem of wage starts and ends by controlling our boarders, truth be told.
Truth be told that should read”artificially high supply BY illegals.”
delores! If that was the case, then everybody would be making minimum wage. But that’s not the case, so your aurgument is wrong.
Truth be told, I do find is however amusing that an opinion writer born on third base states liberal opinion as if he hit a triple.
I’m talking manufacturing jobs which used to be the foundation of America, Joe.
“It is up to our government to protect us from unscrupulous employers.”
Perfect Lib thinking.Womb to the Tomb.
Why don’t you just take care of your own self. Don’t like the wages, don’t take the job.
Without a federally mandated minimum wage?
What BDP fleetie says is what every employer would say.
Oh and the wage would be 10 cents or so an hour.
I am the government, you are the government, I guess I need protecting from your part of the government.
Typical con thinking. If you don’t like something, don’t do it just walk away. How about, if you don’t like something try to change the statue quo.
Where would this country be without the workers?
The workers are what made this country great.
Who made companies and Corporations profitable? The workers.
Where would a company be without workers?
The workers are the foundation!!!!!!
And BTW is”Perfect Lib thinking.Womb to the Tomb.suppose to be some kind of a put down? I am proud to be Liberal, proud that I want to do everything I can to help the less fortunate to make their lives better and in return make this a stronger country. What have you done for your country lately, Fleettwood?
You people don’t think we can take care of ourselves. That is what is the pity.
Fleet-
There needs to be a balance between ownership/management’s needs and desires, and what the workforce needs and desires. The balance falls favorably on the owner/manager side because of the concentrated wealth it represents. The individual has little chance being equal.
Americans have been pimping “fairness and opportunity” for a hundred years now… a place where everyone can have a chance. So who’s to help the individual in the face of decisions and choices made by those with concentrated wealth and power?
For workers, the relief is either “the Governmnent” or “Unionization.” Free market types don’t tend to like either of those….
One thing’s for sure: I’m glad I’m not one of those 19,000 Kansans earning state minimum wage… and at gut level find it offensive that a fellow Kansan’s labor be considered so poorly.
At the political level, this is about perception. Why not potentially make life better for some of these workers? Why not show the rest of the nation that we, as a State, value the contributions of *all* our workforce? It’s mostly a symbolic gesture, but it’s also the right thing to do.
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
I didn’t say that people can’t take care of themselves Fleettwood.
“I am proud to be Liberal, proud that I want to do everything I can to help the less fortunate to make their lives better and in return make this a stronger country.”
The operative words here “lives better”. Did you know that a country is only as strong as the weakest people? I will ask you again, What have you done for your country lately?
Believe me, there are plenty of employers out there who would gladly bring back slavery if they could. I worked for a few! I have been paid minimum wage, and told that if I wanted my job, I’d have to work overtime off the books for no pay at all, mowing my employer’s lawn or repairing his house. Needless to say, I didn’t stay at those jobs long.At one job, I was told to distract federal inspectors while my boss did illegal repairs on aircraft parts. I left that one too (and put in a call to the FAA). At another, I was told to watch another employee because “Niggers always steal.” Too many employers will get away with anything they can.Minimum wage should always be a living wage. You want someone to work 40 hours for you, you have to pay them enough to live on. That should be the base workers start from. That shouldn’t have to be a law, it’s what employers should assume from the day they first hire someone! Employers like Farm Gal know that. Tips should be in addition to fair wages, not in lieu of them. Farm Gal knows that!Unfortunately, in a free market economy, she competes with employers who make more profits by screwing their employees out of everything they can. That’s why there have to be minimum wage and hour, and fair labor practices laws. We tried the Free Market for labor already; we had robber barons living in obscene opulence while their workers were forced into abject poverty while working 12-16 hours a day, 6 days a week for pay just barely more than nothing. Employers who paid more were threatened, put out of business or occasionally killed. Some “free” market.
Excerpt from:
October 25, 2006 | EPI Briefing Paper #178
Minimum wage trendsUnderstanding past and contemporary research
by Liana Fox
If the minimum wage were increased nationally to $7.25:14.9 million workers would receive a raise,80% of those affected are adults age 20 or over, and7.3 million children would see their parents income rise.Families with affected workers rely on those workers for over half of their earnings.46% of all families with affected workers rely solely on the earnings from those workers.Some minimum wage workers remain in low-wage jobs for substantial periods.The best recent research on the economic impact of the minimum wage shows positive effects without job loss.Even the research that suggests a negative labor market effect shows only a minimal impact that is more than offset by the higher wage levels.The states that have adopted higher-than-federal minimum wages have seen low-wage workers’ incomes rise with no negative side-effects.Over 650 economists, including five Nobel Prize winners and six past presidents of the American Economics Association, recently signed a statement stating that federal and state minimum wage increases “can significantly improve the lives of low-income workers and their families, without the adverse effects that critics have claimed” (EPI 2006).
KC Dude, don’t try to confuse these folks with facts – it only annoys them.
“The workers are what made this country great.”
Delores: I like the populist appeal of that statement. Politicians like to say it. And of course working folks make a big contribution. But to be effective, effort has to be directed. In my view, the people who do the most to make the country great are the idea people and risk takers. The men and women who take the risks to build the businesses that create the jobs that in turn allow working people to earn a living.
Just to reiterate previous posts, I have no problem with a reasonable minimum wage increase. In fact, the minimum wage should then be indexed to inflation, removing it as political issue.
I do agree that people should be paid what they deserve, but I don’t think that increasing the minimum wage will ensure that happens. What it will do is ensure that some people will be paid MORE than they deserve. I think we’ve all heard the numbers 20/80 . . . meaning that 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
Also, consider the fact that all the companies providing goods and services to the general public WILL pass the increased cost of labor on to the people who use their goods and services. And the people that can’t “earn a living” making minimum wage STILL won’t be able to earn a living. Because. . . you wait and see . . . the cost of EVERYTHING will go up.
DBroncos – that is very true. Where will the money come from to pay the extra wages? From the consumer, of course. And if the consumer doesn’t want to pay the increased prices for hamburgers, whatever – the employer will reduce some of the work force to even out the deficit.
Also, added to the national wage bill, are tax cuts for businesses, and taxes on lawsuit settlements and punitive damages. Even the Democrats who wanted their constituents to think they are doing something, are bolstering this move with business tax cuts.
We all know the money will come from somewhere, and anyone who thinks the business owner is going to take a hit on his wallet – is probably fooling himself.
…. and so the gap between the haves and the have-nots continues to grow….
…. and grow.
…. and grow.
…. and grow.
Well WSClark, I suggest you move to a socialist society where everyone is taken care of the same whether they work or not, are educated or not, or care or not.
Sorry, but we in America live in a capitalist society and I think it’s ridiculous to punish success or to make someone feel guilty for having success.
Taken care of by the government, that is. Forgot to add that.
“Well WSClark, I suggest you move to a socialist society where everyone is taken care of the same whether they work or not, are educated or not, or care or not”
Typical right wing idiot remark – if you do not agree with me, move to another country.
I suppose, Bronc, that you also consider things like OSHA, the FDA and the EPA to be “socialist” institutions.
With the exception of Ksfarmgrl, it is easy to tell who the business owners/managers are here. They, along with the Chamber of Commerce, hold the heartless, evil, conniving attitude that a person is worth the smallest amount they can be paid to do a job and controls, or lack thereof, should be in place to keep it that way.They are quick to point out that the system is working, but it is not working for those who are making minimum wage (or less). As an example, I remember talking to an owner of a paving company a couple of years ago. He was bragging about his illegal Mexican workers. He said they worked harder than most people here legally and he didn’t have to worry about paying them minimum wage! He talked like he was doing them a favor just allowing them to work for him!The minimum wage is about the community (in this case the state) setting a standard and saying, “This is the MINIMUM we expect a business to pay it’s workers! You are free to pay more if you appreciate and value your workers, but this is the value that we, as a state, say is the minimum a job, even an entry level one, should be valued at.
“Typical right wing idiot remark – if you do not agree with me, move to another country.”
Name calling is unbecoming.
I am curious to know how you propose to close the gap between the “haves and have-nots?
Hand outs? Everyone gets paid the same? Business owners should bear the brunt and “share”?
Have you ever heard of the concept of risk and reward?
I guess if we’re going to give the bottom end a “raise” we should give everyone the same percentage of increase in pay. To be fair and all.
What about the people who started out making minimum wage and stayed with the business for a couple of years. They rec’d a few raises and are now making $8.00 and hour. When the increase happens, it won’t affect those people. So NEW employees will be starting out earning close to what an employee that has been with the company for a while earns. Is that fair?
“Hand outs? Everyone gets paid the same? Business owners should bear the brunt and “share”?”
Name calling hurts your feelings, Bronc, but I should not object when you tell me that I should leave the land of my birth?
Nice try……
And, of course, I never suggested that everyone receives the same – a typical distortion from the right.
And, of course, I never suggested hand outs – again, a distortion.
A two dollar an hour raise for those at the lowest end of the economic scale will have a negligible impact on prices, but it will certainly have a positive impact on the lives of those that work for minimum wage.
It is curious that we can give out corporate welfare for farmers, oil companies, Chrysler Corporation, tobacco producers, etc, and the right has no problem with those “socialist” activities, but giving a guy with limited job skills a two dollar raise so that he can support his family is considered a crime.
I would be more than willing to eliminate the minimum wage, if corporate tax breaks, grants and subsidies were eliminated.
Trust me, WSClark, you didn’t hurt my feelings. And I agree with you on the elimination of the corporate “perks.” That would give the small business owners a better chance of competing.
But please, don’t lump me into the “right.” While I do have conservative leanings, I’m not that shallow.
Truth be told, again I call on all decent Americans to work towards closing the boarders. Either thru a minuteman project or something else.Unemployment is at 4.9% nationwide, truth be told. However, we are having a discussion about minimum wage.Without illegal labor at a 4.9% unemployment rate, you would NEVER be having this discussion, truth be told.Write your Congress people. Call INS on employers you suspect of using an illegal workforce. That is your answer to creating a better living for the working poor in this country.
I would venture to say, Bronc, that corporate “perks” have a greater negative impact on the American taxpayer than a two dollar raise in the minimum wage could possibly have.
I’d like to see one of our “math wiz” types tackle that issue.
It’s interesting that the topic of illegals is brought up. Do you remember Bush saying that he was going to put the onus on “the workplace” to curb illegal workforces? That means that he wants to use the small business owner as a sort of border control. Pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. We pay taxes to have our borders “secure”. Why should the business owner have to bear the financial burden of checking out the potential employee and then the burden of paying the fine if he/she makes a mistake? It should be as simple as making a phone call or checking a website to validate the authenticity of a potential employee’s right to work in this country.
And WHY should we worry about what we pay ILLEGALS???
This shows ignorance, but does anyone know what the percentage of workers in the US that make minimum wage is?
The more I think about it Clark, I believe that farmers that provide food and corporations that provide jobs do more for the economy and the welfare of the nation than people who strive to make minimum wage and suckle from the gov’t teet that leftists like yourself are so willing to make available using MY tax dollars.
I just thought of this after re-reading your previous posts. And I know, I shouldn’t call you a leftist. A “lib” rather.
By 2008 no American will be paid less than 7.25 an hour, regardless of the job they perform. According to the Economic Policy Institute’s website, about 11 percent of the work force, 14.9 million workers, will benefit from this increase.
So, Bronc, you’re cool with giving additional grants and tax breaks to, let’s say, OIL companies that just recorded record profits?
Jeez, how many jobs did Exxon create in the United States?
And since the government set a precedence when they bailed out Chrysler, should they also bail out GM and Ford?
Should the government continue tobacco subsidies when, in actuality, their product kills Americans?
And speaking of “perks” for corporations, let’s talk about Haliburton…….
Thanks for the stats, WSClark. But doesn’t that seem like what is on the table for the increase in minimum wage? And since we have the new congress, it’ll be approved. Not much of a “forecast”.
I wonder what you think about the food and beverage service industry. Should they also receive $7.25 per hour? Regardless of tips? And if so, should that affect how people view tipping when they go out to eat or frequent a bar.
“And if so, should that affect how people view tipping when they go out to eat or frequent a bar.”
Those that receive tips as part of their jobs are exempt from the Federal Minimum wage and are paid no less than one half of the Fed Min – $3.63 an hour.
In Kansas, they’re paid $2.13/hour.
Anyhow . . .
I have enjoyed this conversation. I have to go now. I’m going to a restaurant where the people are paid too little, and then to a musical where the actors may not be paid at all.
Oh, the humanity.
Take care.
The Republicans and the Chamber think alike. They probably hope for a return of chattel slavery (which may not be far fetched if we don’t get rid of the GOP next year).
Late to the party here. Actually, I have a confession. Paying one of the highest starting wages in my community was a good business decision. I hired fewer employees and it lowered my overall labor costs. Why? ‘Cause the people I hired are motivated and they do more work than two unmotivated people.
I’d rather pay one person a higher wage to do a GREAT job than to pay two mediocre or poor workers and pay them a pittance. Again, I get what I pay for, and higher paid adults are worth more to me in retained revenue in the long run. And they cost less in the long run ’cause they dont make brain-dead mistakes.
The funny thing? Every one of them says they’d work for me just to eat my food. Hehehehehehehehe. Hell, one woman works every other Friday just for fried chicken.
hee hee hee hee. No wonder they take pride in the product they serve.
Usually the better you pay employees and the better you treat them, they better they serve you and your customers. Pay them decently, don’t micromanage them and treat them to lunch once in awhile and you will have a good stable work force.
kfg, as an employee, i’d rather work harder with less if the employees are valued and are all good staff.
that’s not an excuse to understaff, because that will eventually wear down the good staff, but from time to time it’s easier to run short with good employees than run full with bad workers.
KFG employment practices actually argue against the minimum wage, truth be told.
WS – I disagree that the gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ is what is creating the disparity.
It’s the gap between the ‘wills’ and the ‘will nots’ that determines a person’s lot in this life.
At least in the United States.
“It’s the gap between the ‘wills’ and the ‘will nots’ that determines a person’s lot in this life.”
So the working poor – those above the welfare line but below the poverty line are “WILL NOTS?”
They are working – full time – but they do not make enough to support their families but they make too much for welfare. They are working full time and caring for their families so they do not have the time or money to attend vocational school or college so how do they get ahead.
Will not’s?
Without the minimum wage as a floor, even a good employer like kansasfarmgrrl would have no standard to start from. Gsheridan? Will or will not….what? Polish the knob of some overbearing shilly goon like you? Employers in America are getting more and more overbearing and less and less rewarding to their workers. The result is workers who absolutely hate their employers. Not a good thing for the country.
WS – the minimum wage has no effect on what we pay, either, but in construction we have to stay competitive if we want to retain the best workers. Even laborers make at least double the minimum wage to start.
We have rarely had to let anyone go – but when we did – it was someone who wouldn’t work. One young man, as much as I liked him, took to crawling in a corner and napping every time supervision left the site. His co-workers were the ones who finally told on him.
We are all responsible for our choices – and in the United States, opportunity abounds for even the poorest among us.
But it takes initiative. It takes (will)power.
I told the story a couple of weeks ago about my niece from Colorado. She was not eligible for ANY financial aid because her father made too much money – but he wouldn’t help her one bit. She took double loads and she worked. She received her RN when most kids are still partying in college.
She’s a nurse in Newton now. No one helped her.
It CAN be done. If one wants it badly enough.
Not everyone wants to put out that much effort, however.
Constrution eh?
I’ll BET you hire illegals GSHeridan. You may not KNOW you do it. You may not WANT to know you do it.
But I will bet that you do.
Little story here about what happens with no minimum wage.
I knew folks who were having a foundation poured for their house. The subcontractor had at least one illegal working for him.
Illegal = minimum wage does not apply.
This guy was worked 16 hour days!!
His pay?
FIFTEEN DOLLARS a DAY!!And that poor slob was HAPPY to get it.
Now you take away the minimum wage and those sorts of conditions will apply to American workers as well.
You abort a child, it could have grown up and found a cure for cancer.
“WS – I disagree that the gap between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ is what is creating the disparity.
It’s the gap between the ‘wills’ and the ‘will nots’ that determines a person’s lot in this life.”
I think this quote illustrates the need for the minimum wage and many of the other regulations. The attitude seems to be that, “If a person wants more than the minimum an employer will provide he has to work hard for it!”
It doesn’t take into account that many people do not have the opportunity to obtain the education or skills that are needed and their current employer feels that he “owns” that person, at least for the 8 hours or more that he is paying the person. And, after all, if that person doesn’t train for a better job, he deserves what he gets, right?
The problem is that all people don’t start at the same level. Some need a little help to get moving. These are the people that are the most likely to be exploited by unscrupulous employers and kept at the bottom, even though they are good workers. Even though they have started at a low wage, they still have to provide for themselves and their families. Those who are against the minimum wage have shown they will not pay more unless forced to.
If it is a business that employees skilled workers, they are forced to pay more by the job market. If it is an employer that can employee unskilled workers the wages are controlled by the minimum wage. If they are lying, thieving owners that treat their employees poorly, sometimes those employees form a Union so they have a collective rather than individual voice.
No matter how wages are determined, the idea of doing away with Kansas minimum wage that is half the United States minimum wage is appalling! The members of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce should hang their heads in shame and resign! It is pathetic that members of a group that is supposed to help the citizens of a state could sink so low just to pad their own pockets. Last year they tried to gut the workmen’s compensation system. This year they try to get rid of the lowest minimum wage in the nation. I think we would be better off to just get rid of them!
Labor is a commodity. The price of labor – like any resource – is established by the laws of economics (supply and demand). Price floors (and ceilings) can cripple market forces and generally cause shortages and inflated prices.
Econ 101, folks.
Still can’t get that image out of my head when I see that nic…
Thanks golfnutI have been out burning fossil fuels and didnt have a chance to jump on this one, until now!Well said!
By the way, a minimum wage, set at any level, simply mandates that anyone who isn’t worth that wage (plus FICA plus benefits) —gets FIRED or never gets hired.
The government simply states, with minimum wage laws, that those below an arbitrary level can’t have a job — which means they will never be able to improve or climb up the ladder.
I want everyone to be rich, I dont want anyone to be poor. The government simply does not have the power to grant my wish, or yours either, for that matter.
We just do damage by passing legislation that ignores economics.
Raising minimal wages will be good economics; you do not want to have all the wealth in just a few classes of people.It is necessary to move money and not let it stagnate; otherwise the economy would collapse for some and lose its cohesion to what makes up the different levels of a society.Capitalism thrives on successes and failures and movement of wealth thru all classes of people.
“Even now at the federal level of minim wage, it still does not add up to the same level of benefits being on welfare does.”
Writerdog, could you show me where being on welfare pays better than minimum wage? I really don’t see it.
“Welfare automatically cuts off after two years, Writerdog.”
No. It’s 60 months (5 years) in a lifetime.
And before anyone starts whining about supporting people on welfare, here’s a quote from the Kansas SRS website:
“Most of the nation’s total government benefits go to persons in the middle or upper classes, with only 14% of total government benefits going to the poor. Cash assistance payments account for just over 1% of all federal benefits programs.”
JR writes:
——-”I’ll BET you hire illegals GSHeridan. You may not KNOW you do it. You may not WANT to know you do it.
But I will bet that you do.”———-
I KNOW I don’t. We are a small company and all our workers have lived in our area – most of them born and raised here. It’s the Wichita builders that run the illegals. We have a very low turnover rate. Not one Mexican in the bunch – much less an illegal one. Plenty of German Mennonites, although.
I hire illegal aliens. Last time we moved from one part of Atlanta to the other side of the city, I rented a moving truck and went to the local Home Depot and, using my 2 years of high school Espanol, hired 2 illgeal aliens for $100 each plus lunch for the days work. Which I had estimated would take 8 hours with 3 loads and traffic. They loaded the stuff fast- even the heavy furniture and it ended up taking only 5 hours and 2 loads. They were done at 1PM and I paid them the promised $100 and took them back to Home Depot- they didn’t even want the lunch because they thought it was early enough to get another job for the afternoon. Now, if you take that money it amounts to $20 an hour yet I did not see ONE lazy ass American that would work for it. Americans would rather bitch, watch American Idle and fret over Anna Niclole than to work. And when most of us do work, we complain about everything. The Mexicans get up early, do a hard and honest day of work and, as long as you give them ice water and food at lunch, they don’t bitch about it. The total move with 2 Mexicans and the truck costed me about $325.00. The movers wanted $750 for the same thing!
Kev doesn’t just aid and abet invaders to this country.
He’s PROUD of it.
Actually, inflation occurs when increase in wages outstrips gains in productivity. As long as productivity keeps pace with wage increases, no inflation. And vice versa. When wages rise faster than productivity, you get inflation, and when the price of goods with inelastic demand goes up, you also get stagflation.
One of the reasons so many jobs were created and the economy boomed during the Clinton administration was because of the tremendous leaps in productivity brought on by improved technology in ALL industries.
Hence, growth with no inflation.
I support a minimum wage law as good economics. It will just lift the exploited, ’cause in this labor market when demand waaaaaay outstrips supply, the only folks making minimum wage are the exploited. I doubt that anyone will get fired when the minimum wage is mandated to go up.
It would be a poor business owner who keeps poor performers on staff for ANY reason other than that they needed a warm body to do or not do something.
My opinion is most good business people dont hire someone because they are cheap. They hire a person because they need a person. The wage then should be determined by productivity, not hiring the brain dead and seeing “how low can we go”.
BTW, I dont think just paying someone more makes them more productive or a better employee. But being a better and more productive employee will get them a higher wage.
It works in THAT direction, not that a fat paycheck makes an inherently lazy and stupid person suddenly a brilliant hard worker!
And political mom? “but from time to time it’s easier to run short with good employees than run full with bad workers.”
Truer words were never spoken. My staff and I agree on THAT!
Just as an aside, all these great employees who work for me are part timers. Why? Not because I am too cheap to pay benefits, but because every single one of them is MOONLIGHTING with me on the weekends to supplement the income from their “real” jobs.
One is a nurse who just likes to keep busy on the weekends and she has FUN working for me. Another manages a local chain store, but works for me in the evenings and weekends ’cause her asshole ex doesnt make child support payments, so she has to pay the bills. AND she has fun too!!
In fact, if you asked most of my employees why they work for me, they likely wouldnt cite the good wages and tips. They would list “the fun” we have at number one, “the food” we eat as number two, and the flexible schedules as number three.
Hehehehe. But of course, they dont mind wages that, with tips, often amount to $15 per hour.
Come to think of it, I want to work for ME instead of owning the biz! heheheheheheheheh.
I’d damn sure make more money……
One more thing…
Someone was wondering how welfare paid more than working? Here is a real life example!
My dishwasher is deaf. I havent asked him or his wife too many questions, but I do know they get some sort of government assistance. I dont know if he gets disability money, or if it is “low income” money, but somehow, he has a state medical card. I am going to assume it is medicaid, ’cause his wife is disabled and in a wheel chair.
Any way, when he came to work for me, he was also working part time during the week for another company. Having the income from two jobs gave them a REAL boost in their income, but suddenly, the $7+ per hour he made with me on the weekends put him OVER the amount he could earn and still keep his medical card.
Major crisis, since he and his wife both have significant health problems. And the piddly little money he makes with me every month ($500) is enough to cut into his medical benfits.
He has a real quandry, ’cause working with us and taking home leftover food ensured that he got at least a few good meals a week, and it helped keep him from being depressed in the way he had been in the past. He needs to get out of the house and LOVES to work. The harder the better!!
We all adore him, and his wife said if he had to give up one job, it wouldnt be the one with me ’cause he has so much fun there, he is rarely depressed anymore. And he eats like a PIG at my place! :)
He is in this quandry ’cause he loves to work, and because of the high cost of health insurance, and because, frankly, no private insurance company would insure him or his wife because of pre-existing conditions.
So…. he gets penalized because he works two jobs. Talk about killing the desire for ANYONE to work under those circumstances because they are WORSE off by working than they were when they collected welfare.
I have a retired hostess who cut way back on her hours because the $100 bucks or so she made with me every week put her in the “donut” of Medicare Part D, and actually INCREASED her cost of living because it threw her into an income bracket where she paid more for her diabetes medicine.
And trust me, she’s not rolling in the dough like some retired folks. She is a widow who works part time at the grade school during the week, and hostesses for me on the weekends. So now, she only works when I have an emergency, and I pay her cash under the table. She is SO worth it!!!
Sue me. I take care of my people. I hardly think the few tax free bucks she gets will bankrupt the system, and I’m not getting any tax deduction from the money I pay her. I just do it for her and, selfishly, for the good of my business.
THAT is how people are better off collecting a government check than they would be working their asses off with two jobs. If we had universal health care coverage, they would be able to work to their hearts’ content.
Provided I could afford to keep feeding them. Heeheheheheheheheh….
KFG,
In that respect, yes, welfare (as in state health care) does outweigh miminum wage.
The truth be told: The Truth is a plagiarist; to wit:
“Back in 1988, Jim Hightower, a razor-tongued Texas democrat, amused the nation by saying presidential candidate George Bush was a man ‘born on third base [who] thought he had hit a triple.’”
http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/1999/06/14/george.first.html
But, at least he/she/it steals from good LIBERAL writers.
hee hee hee Steven. But the best one still belongs to Ann Richards who said “Poor George. He was born with a silver FOOT in his mouth”.
hehehehehehehe. God, I miss her and Molly….
Y’know, those folks on here arguing that there are so few people making minimum wage that we don’t need to consider them are the same ones who argue that raising the minimum wage will start another round of inflation. Uh, you can’t have that one both ways!
Jed,It’s unlikely to add much fuel to the inflation fire, but it WILL result in loss of employment for some.
Nutz,If you can’t afford to pay a living wage to your employees then you had no business hiring them in the first place.
jed-Please tell us just what a “Living Wage” is. What does that mean?
Living wage=entitlement.
Why do I have to pay for my own needs? Shouldn’t the government be taking care of that?
And where can I get me one of those $15/day mexi-workers? I got some yardwork that needs done.
Hell, why doesn’t the government do my yardwork?! No fair!
Jed,Just what exactly is “a living wage,” and if I’m hiring a high school kid to man my lemonade stand, does he get the same living wage as a welder in my machine shop?
How about you mow your own yard and man your own lemonade stand? You could use the exercise round boy.
Junior is obviously incapable of discussion without personal attacks. *shock*
Typical liberal.
(editors’ note: Golf spends about an hour a day on the stairmaster and/or stationary bike at the Y – he’ll happily entertain Junior, DA and Farmie to a “cardio-off” whenever they feel up to the challenge.)
PS: It’ll have to be next week, we’re leaving for a four-day ski trip on Thursday. =)
Nutz,A living wage varies from community to community, but is fairly easy to compute- Take the rent on a decent apartment and quadruple it, and that’s what a full-time employee should take home every month at the very least, and medical for all employees!And yes, that applies to the kid you pay to run your lemonate stand. Your welder should get considerably more!You want to be a cheapskate? Don’t hire anyone- do it yourself!
Jed,I can clearly see that you are not a business owner.
My idea of decent apartment is a Manhattan penthouse. So, damnit, pay me my living wage to pay for that.
jed and his ilk is why the democrat party is out of the main stream.Living wage = gimme gimme
In Wichita, a decent apartment is about $500. Jed is therefore postulating that the Wichita Living Wage (WLW) is $2000/month, and all employees should receive that amount PLUS company-provided health insurance.
Would anyone care to guess what percentage of workers would be unemployed in such a scenario?
It doesn’t matter Golfnut. It would give them a chance to wear the jacket with the attached “victim-hood”.
SWEET! A VictimHoodie!
PMom – get yours now!
Comes in sizes L for Lib and XL for extra Lib.
libs= PRO unemployment
Nutz,You’re the one that wants to hire people; if you can’t pay them a living wage, don’t hire them!And yes, I’ve been a one-man business for over 25yrs now.
SOB,The definition of a decent apartment is one your wife would live in.
jed-It should be, if you don’t want the job for the wage that is being offered DON’T TAKE IT.
Skinflint,If you won’t pay enough for a worker to live on, you don’t have any business hiring anyone.
jed-You are beginning to repeat yourself. Speaking of:
“jed-It should be, if you don’t want the job for the wage that is being offered DON’T TAKE IT.”
Jed is clearly not too bright – ergo: a perfect member of the Democrat party
Skinflint,Repetition seems to be necessary when you don’t get the message the first time through!
jed-Please, tell us what a Living Wage should be? Is it $20/hour?$25?
Skinflint,In the Wichita area, $8.50-10hr. would probably suffice. In New York or California, $25hr might be too low. A person, and his/her dependants need a reasonable place to live AND enough to eat AND heat/AC AND clothes AND transportation AND medical care. A minimum month’s pay should cover that, and maybe a couple dollars extra. Got that, or do you need me to repeat it several more times?