"As a child growing up in Wichita, I learned to spot a failure when I saw one. And this one’s a whopper," Jack A. Cole wrote about the war of drugs in a commentary in Tuesday’s Eagle. Cole was an undercover narcotics officer with the New Jersey state police who now directs Law Enforcement Against Prohibition in Medford, Mass. Despite spending more than $1 trillion on the war on drugs since 1970, America hasn’t been able to arrest its way out of its drug problem, or halt the flow of drugs, Cole said. In addition, the war has diverted needed police resources from violent crime work. Cole supports a system of legalized regulation of drugs that he says is more efficient and ethical than prohibition.
U.S. Attorney Eric Melgren of Wichita plans to write a rebuttal.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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151 Comments
we are never going to stop people from using drugs…
at the very least we should legalize pot – make it very very expensive – tax the hell out of it – reduce the deficit with it or even put the money from the pot tax to more aggressive efforts at the border sneaking cocaine and crack into the US
Right, pot isn’t any worse than alcohol. If used responsibly and in moderation, there is nothing wrong with in. Of course, just like alcohol, there will be people who abuse it. But I see no problem with making pot a huge revenue resource for taxes instead of paying to stop it. If we ascribe the same laws to it as alcohol (don’t smoke and drive, etc…), then I would be all for it.
As for other drugs, some like extasy, are not dangerous in their pure form. It is when they are cut with unknown substance that they become dangerous.
But I don’t think this kind of forward-thinking will become mainstream enough for at least another generation. So for now, it is just a pipe-dream.
Of course the War on Drugs has been a dismal failure and a trillion dollar fiasco. The powers that be apparently learned nothing from Prohibition. Drugs, like every other commodity, is economically dependent upon supply and demand. The War on Drugs, like Prohibition, attacked the suppliers, with little, or no, focus on demand. As long as there is a demand, there is going to be a supply. The greater the demand, the greater the supply. It didn’t work against the “shiners”, Al Capone, or old man Kennedy … and it sure as hell isn’t going to work against billion dollar Columbian drugs cartels.
The only valid argument for legalization is “turn it over to the government” … Two things will happen. Taxation will generate tremendous revenue, but even better, the quality will go to hell under governmental authority, and demand will decrease.
Andrew: “Pipe Dream” … I like that … pun intended ???
No… but I am now LMAO!
RM, also as a part of “legalization”, a reality based educational program to reduce or eliminate demand for those substances that remain illegal. Something more than “Just say no”.
Andrew, I hope you got the ID links I sent.
You bet, buddy ! “Just Say No!” That worked sooooooooooooo well, didn’t it? Demand will never be completely eliminated anymore than violent crime will be … but I’m with Cole than it would free up law enforcement personnel to devote more time and resources to matters like violent crime, not to mention a hell of a lot of jail and prison space for violent criminals.
Agreed as well. I think if we are honest and don’t give the BS lines about weed while we drink our cocktails we might be able to have credibility when we say crack, meth, etc are bad shit. And, when I talk to people I know, I use just those words.
Andrew – I don’t really know that much about ecstacy but from what I have seen I would put it in the bad catagory too. Perhaps you are correct about the problem being adulterants but I’m not so sure.
That said, I would want any warnings based on best knowledge rather than BS “just say no” …
Ben, your 1:13PM post above got me wondering what happened to the “common knowledge” back in the day I was an undergraduate (1968-1972) when the “drug scene” was in its early stages that “Don’t do heroin or cocaine; that shit’ll kill you”. Seemed to me, at the time, that the hard drugs weren’t being abused then, and everyone (whether or not indulging in a bit of “weed”) took heed of said knowledge. Wonder what happened?
BTW, I agree on ecstacy; waiting for factual education thereon.
Check the facts on countries that legalized.All that really happened is they had more room for violent offenders.
It’s like any other human vice,it wont stop happening.Right now the pot laws and punishments destroy families,not the drug.
The first time I smoked pot, the Devil made me do it. After that, I didn’t need any help.
Very true VT. And remember the old song “God damn the pusher” but the dealer was OK.
Like you said, when you heard from a peer “stay away from the bad shit” you listened.
What happened? The “War on Drugs” happened!
I did a paper on the myths surrounding Extasy in German class(because of its popularity in Germany).It is not chemically addictive but bad news for those with addictive personalities. On average, it is associated with only 10 deaths in the US a year (where MDMA was the only drug present). Compare that to half a million deaths a year from tobacco. It may have some long term effects on the ability of the brain to release certain chemicals needed for feeling different emotions.Most injuries from use come from dehydration. You can be “extatic” for hours (4-6 usually), and may people forget to drink water. Or they eat sweets which can produce problems with blood-sugar regulation.
The bottom line is there is nothing dangerous about it. Nicotene is far far worse… and legal…
Andrew – I had read about temperature regulation issues. That would tie in with dehydration. So, perhaps if you stay well-hydrated, perhaps in advance, it is safe. I honestly don’t know.
That said, I agree with you. Let’s get real facts out and let people decide for themselves. As for me, I’ll pass thank you …
WSC, first time I smoked I got so hungry I put it out and ate half of it!
Two words – White Castles.
1969 Detroit, the Grande Ballroom, a couple of fatties and your friends, some Iggy or the Five, White Castles on the way home.
Who needs Heaven?
Let’s test your drug knowledge.Okay, I know you can google so I guess it’s stupid, but…..anybody ever hear of this character?Alexander Shulgin
SLIDERS!!!!!!!!
Used to get those by the dozen in Chicago – even straight!
BTW, White Castle is a product of Wichita.
Okay, Trace then why the Hell do I have to get my Castles fix by buying the frozen ones at Dillons?
Huh?
The least they could do is have just one White Castles left here in Wichita. To my knowledge, the closest White Castles is on SM Parkway and (about) 93rd St in OPKS.
That is a hell of a long way to go when you have the munchies.
Yea, but with all that grease they sure keep well! Just like my Ding-dongs.
Freshness determined by radiocarbon dating!
When I was young and lived there,I believe there was one at Kellog and Rock, or somewhere close.The only reason I know where it started is the History channel.
Since nobody cares about this trivia, I’ll give it up.Alexander Shulgin is the father of the synthetic psychedelic drug movement.Not only did he create all of them, he used to work with the govt classifying them.At least until they decided he was evil and they needed to harrass him.
Okay, let’s try some more trivia.Anybody here admit to owning a copy of the Whole Earth Catalog?
Damn, where’s KFG when you need an old hippie to help out?
I did in the past.
No, drugs are not safe; not pot, not ecstasy, not even aspirin or tylenol. Of course, neither are big macs, pasta alfredo, cell phones or skateboards.It is not the job of the state to keep us safe from ourselves. If you don’t have the judgement to know what to do and when, then evolution will do it’s work; when you endanger others, then the state will do it’s job.
Somewhere in the files, Trace, somewhere in there.
I used to have an original copy of Sgt. Pepper’s, too, but my ex “lost” it.
Access To Tools!Ding ding.A winner!Did you happen to read the story than ran from page to page?Divine Right’s Trip?Fun reading anyway.
Jed, if we can’t smoke pot,then why can we drag race and sky-dive huh?
I have an original VietNam war protest poster listing casualties and the next draft call.At the bottom all it says is:PRAY FOR PEACE
Jed I think what you were saying in your post is ‘If you want to do bad things to yourself okay, just to do them to other people.’ In principal, I agree with that 100%.
The problem lies in the implementation. I think pot should be of a similar status as alcohol, but you may think anytime someone smokes pot they are a danger to others so it should be completely prohibited.
Someone has to determine where the line is between harming oneself and harming others. Of course, I think that person should be me and I have my own ideas where the lines are on issues such as this. Unfortunately so do most everyone else.
Oops – replace the first sentence of my post with:”Jed I think what you were saying in your post is ‘If you want to do bad things to yourself okay, just do not do them to other people.’
My sympathies, WS; my wife’s copy of “Sergeant Pepper’s” is safely ensconced right next to my “Surrealistic Pillow”, which is located next to my wife’s collection of everything Simon & Garfunkel recorded while together, which is next to “Pearl”, which is next to my collection of the Moody Blues (my daughters really enjoy the cover art on those, BTW), which resides next to “Inagoddadavida”, and so on; the loss of any of these vinyls would be most eggregious.
Losses to unscrupulous roommates: “Nashville Skyline”; “I Got Them Old Cosmic Blues Again, Baby”; “Magical Mystery Tour”; the one Canned Heat LP, the name of which I cannot recall (the SOB did have the decency to leave me “Hooker and Heat”, though). There were others, just these were particularly painful.
Got’em! High tides & Green grass ,etc, too.
gster, “Sticky Fingers”?
Sticky Fingers – with the working zipper.
WS, Right On!
LSD= some wild wild stuff. Bad bad.
Speaking of which, did you hear that some drink company has bought the rights to use Jimi Hendrix- the drink is called “liquid experience”.
Ah, Hendrix; who can forget the “Star Spangled Banner” at Woodstock?
Just heard some bit on the radio that some political hack from God-knows-where is proposing legislation making it a crime to smoke a cigarette in your own vehicle with a passenger under the age of eighteen. Talk about the government protecting us from ourselves! Assuredly, this has as much chance of becoming federal law as Brownback’s presidential trifle, but that’s not the point. We are paying these people six-figure incomes, plus who knows what else in perks and retirement to do WHAT?
I personally have two incurable, ultimately fatal diseases, neither related to smoking. And that’s the good news. The bad news is that the odds of my living long enough to die from either one of them are about the same as getting run over by a bus in Cairo, Egypt, tomorrow with the winning PowerBall ticket in my pocket. All they are going to do is make me very ill for a few weeks a couple of times a year and have lots of blood transfusions.
I don’t need Uncle protecting me from myself, thank you … and, frankly, I resent the hell out of it!
P_Mom, was meinst LSD? Never heard of the stuff, myself. :)
RM, there’s already a city ordinance in Bangor, Maine, to the same effect. I believe I heard/read there are a handful of other municipalities adopting similar ordinances.
Brian,Basically, yes, but I also want to point out that there is nothing I know of that can’t be abused. While I know of no cases of anyone abusing laundry detergent, my faith in the creativity of my fellow man leads me to assume that no doubt someone has. Our great war on drugs has simply singled out the sustances that enough people have abused to be perceived as some sort of problem, but not abused by enough people to cost some politician his job by denouncing. Further, any time you attempt to supress trade in any item, you create a black market for it, and even societies as draconian as the Soviet Union and China have been unable to cope with black markets. Today, right here in Wichita, it is easier for a kid with cash to score pot or crack than a decent chocolate malt. Ask your kids! In the meantime, we have filled up our prison system several times over with drug offenders, with no apparent effect. I’d call that a failure.
Vaughn: I guess I still learn something everyday. I just caught the blip between 2 phone calls, and didn’t hear the onset or the finale. God, as if living in Bangor, Maine, wouldn’t be bad enough all by itself! :)
Jed: You’re absolutely right about creating a black market, and I’m sure there is someone out there who has figured out a way to abuse laundry detergent…and a Twelve Step Program for detergent abusers. “Just Say Soap”, or something like that!
“POT” only……Legalize it, must be 21 to buy it, solded in liquor store’s and tax it.
Once pot is legalized and people can come out of the closet we can deal with the real problems it causes. As long as it is illegal it is as if it just does not exist until someone is in jail. We as a society do not care to help jail birds.
Chrissy: Other than the obvious, i.e., DUI, what are the “real” problems of which you speak?
“the real problems it causes.”
Yes, I would like to know what the “real problems” are, Chrissy.
Despite the illegality of marijuana, there have been many reports on it’s use and the attendant issues. NORML, for example, has an entire website devoted to debunking the “dangers” of marijuana use.
Legal or not, marijuana use has been throughly investigated, disected and analyzed more than any drug other than alcohol. In all actuality, marijuana is far safer for the user and those around him/her than alcohol or any other drug.
Didn’t Dennis Miller say that if there where no drugs people would spin around in their back yards until they saw God?
Amazing how we trivialize the effects of drug and alcohol abuse on familes and children. I’ve seen parents let their kids go hungry so they could get high. Maybe the government can’t protect people from themselves, but someone needs to try and protect children from their drug and alcohol addicted parents.
Mary – I would never trivialize that. I have seen FAR too much of it over the years.
My thing with the issue is that USE is not necessarily ABUSE. Unfortunately, the line is sometimes not as clear as we would like.
The commentary was about marijuana which is NOT an addictive narcotic, MC.
Pot users don’t neglect their kids so that they can make their next score. Marijuana is not addictive, no matter what Nutz says about it.
Marijuana is much different from other street drugs. If you are going to address the “drug” problem, then specify what “drug” you are talking about.
rm, wsc – I would say that the ‘real problems’ would be quite similar to alcohol abuse – IF the user crosses the line from use to abuse.
Isn’t that great, there are going to be different generations of users.The retired generation will be smoking pot and drinking.The next generation will be doing LSD, cocaine. (If there are any generations left)The next generation will be doing ice, crystal meth. (If there are any generations left)The next generation will be doing something whatever (laundry soap?)It just goes on and on and on if there are any generations left.
By the way, Ben, some people do not have your intelligence.If you notice how people differ on drug usage when it comes to their maturity.
Have you ever been around anyone who smoked pot everyday for years then suddenly didn’t have access to it? It ain’t pretty. It’s addictive the same way alcohol is, if you have an addictive personality and use it on a regular basis, then you’re going to crave it.I’ve seen plenty of pot heads neglect their children, it’s not the harmless drug that you make it out to be. No drug is harmless, not even the legal ones.
Mary, what would happen if you have gotten rid of all the coffee?
I agree Mary. I use nothing with any more kick than coffee (too much) but have known people who have used – or abused – drugs. Some, most, occassionally use with no ill effect. Others, however, as you note go off the deep end.
From what I have been told by people involved in treatment legalization will not result in larger total numbers but rather a shift in drug of choice.
Having it legal will, in my opinion, make it easier to get people into treatment when there is a problem. Also, by not going crazy with untrue scare tactics about pot we might maintain better credibility when we tell people crack, PCP, meth, etc are bad shit.
NO COFFEE!!!!!!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben: I would say, from my observations, that the reactions from alcohol vs. marijuana, while similar in some instances, are also very different in many others. For example, I’ve seen a lot of “mean drunks”, but I’ve never seen anyone get stoned and want to start a bar brawl. With absolutely no stats to back me up, I have to believe there’s very few D.V. incidents involving marijuana use, yet it seems a huge percentage of these involve drinking by one or both of the parties. As I said, I know this is purely anecdotal. I certainly welcome any solid evidence to the contrary.
I have seen regular users when they quit using pot.
I never saw any kind of withdrawal.
Drug and alcohol treatment barely exist anymore unless you have money, which most addicts don’t.I don’t know what the answer is, all I know is that when something is legal, people feel like it’s OK and that they have permission to use it. I don’t think drug use will decrease with legalization, but it does seem like a losing battle to try to keep people from using.I know what it’s like to have an alcoholic parent, the negative impact can last a lifetime.
If you ever worked in drug and alcohol treatment, you’d have seen it PMom.My ex son in law was a huge pot head, no one could stand to be around him until he had his first joint of the day. He was horrible when he wasn’t high.
It probably depends on the person though too.
Remember my uncle who smoked pot, the quad who used it for pain control- he stopped regular use when they surgically severed his cords.
There are much better drugs for pain and nausea control than pot. I think the “medicinal use” of pot is really overrated.
Mary: You’re right about the difficulty of getting treatment without a lot of money or damned good insurance, but think of the treatment that could be available if even 10% of the money that has been already spent on the War on Drugs had been directed in that manner. As I said much earlier today, it’s supply and demand … and all of the focus has been on the supply, and the solution lies in reducing the demand.
Well, MC, your “opinion” contradicts every medical opinion rendered.
I wonder where you claim greater knowldege than the medical professionals.
Sorry, MC, your opinion is just more of your sanctimonius BS. Next I suppose that you are going to tell us that you “read” that in the WE and you observed the withdrawl of no one less that Dr. Tiller.
And yes, I had a former girlfriend that had smoked pot everyday for years – she was an RN in a highly respected medical clinic.
And she did not have any problem cutting out the pot so that she could get a new, higher paying job.
As usual, MC, you are full of it.
He swore that the pot worked better than all the high powered narcotics they gave him.
And muscle relaxers.
How would you know if they worked better or not?
I can’t even say whether or not it does…and what works well for one, you know, doesn’t do a thing for another.
WC, I’d have issues with any RN that thinks she can function on the job under the influence of pot. That’s not only unprofessional, but scary as hell.
Pee,For once, we agree.
I am an RN who has worked in drug and alcohol treatment, WC. What experience do you have with addictions?PMom, pot isn’t nearly as stong as the drugs available today for pain and nausea. I went through surgery, chemo, and radiation therapy for over 6 months. Pot wouldn’t have touched my pain. Offer someone in intractable pain a toke and you’ll get laughed at.
You would not have to buy any pot just grow your own.
She didn’t smoke at work, P Mom, she smoked AFTER work, as did 90% of her compatriots.
Contrary to pop opinion, marijuana use is not like crack or cocaine or meth. People don’t go crazy. It’s not all that much different from having a few glasses of wine before, during and after dinner.
As usual, WC is full of it. I think he has a hell of a problem with constipation or something, he’s always in such a nasty mood.
Scary as hell, indeed. And I damned sure want to know when I get on an airplane that the captain isn’t already at 35,000 feet.
Well Mary, when they gutted me after my c-section, I was on morphine, and I can say fairly certainly that I’d have had about equal pain control. Now I don’t know how much morphine I was on.
I can say pretty well that pot would at least make me higher than the pain control I’m on now.
But my objective isn’t to get high, it’s to control pain.
WS, I have a hard time believing 90% of your “friend’s” compatriots smoked pot. I have a lot of friends in the health field, there si no way they’d risk their license that way. Many health care facilities do random drug screening. As usual, you’re full of shit.
I have read many of your posts, MC, and from my perspective, you have zero credibility.
You have stated your “opinion” that marijuana is addictive. Nice try.
Post some medical proof of your claim or give it up.
DA,It’s your attitude: “it’s no big deal..sure I can drive while I’m high..Of course I can operate heavy machinery…fly the 747…remove your spleen..”
That’s why it’ll never be legalized.
DA,The AMA and the WHO agree that marijuana is addictive.
“believing 90% of your “friend’s” compatriots smoked pot.”
Every pot smoker on earth knows how to beat drug screens. I have known daily pot smokers that beat “random” tests all the time.
Nice try, again.
Not very many RN’s I know who’d risk that either. And if they do, then they’re just stupid.
I do agree with WC that it’s not the drug that some make it out to be though.
And, if the R.N. or the pilot wants a few tokes after work, I’ve no problem with that. Just not before or during. I agree with WC there — it’s no different than me having a couple of drinks in the evening, or not. Just a matter of personal choice then.
It’s not the drug screens I’m worried about WC- it’s getting caught with the stuff.
I’ve tried marijuana only 3 times and that was many years ago.
I do wonder if it would help with my digestive problems.
Don’t sweat Mary too much WS. She’s a good person in bad company.
I could give you my address – tell you when I am going to smoke – draw pictures – you still can’t catch me.
It is only the idiots that drive around smoking and carrying a stash that get caught. You could bring your drug sniffing dogs on right now. You would never be able to find any evidence.
In this day and age, if you are an occasional pot smoker, you have to be a total moron to get caught.
You can’t compare morphine with pot. You’re right PMom, if you smoked pot after a C-section, you’d just be high and in a lot of pain.WSClark, what medical field are you in? You seem to think you’re pretty knowledgeable. I’d like to see you beat a random drug test, especally when it’s a blood test. That’s what we often used in the hospital….little hard to beat a test like that.Any medical professional who would risk their license in order to use shouldn’t be in the field.
JR..what “bad company” are you talking about? You’re here.
I have stepson that tried pot with some friends of his, the first time he did it we ended up taking him to the emergency room, it turn out that he was allergic to it and he would not try do it again.You do have to admit that for some people it does nothing for them but for some they can get a different reaction.Prohibition does not work now so let us try the other way and see what happens.
“you still can’t catch me”….na.. na..nana..na!WC, you’re proving my theory that pot smokers stop developing emotionally at the age they start using.
Nice try, MC, zip cred, however.
I have beat random drug tests and pre-employment screenings. I don’t smoke all that often, but I know the drill. I know people that have smoked ON THE WAY TO A DRUG SCREEN and have passed the test with flying colors.
Are you that naive? Do you think that footballers, baseballers, etc are clean? Nice try.
You folks think that you know it all, but you don’t know a damn thing. There is a whole industry devoted to providing people the means of beating drug tests.
Dang, and they say I am the loopy druggie?
I was on morphine for almost three years, and had to go through four doctors to find one who would take me OFF if it. It seemed to me that it was just easier for them to keep insisting it was the only solution than to find something else. Three of them told me horror stories of how bad it would be because I had to be addicted after all of that time. Finally, I found one with the balls to try something else. I’ll never be pain-free, I know that. But I did not suffer one single symptom of withdrawal, except relief that I didn’t have to do that anymore.
Hey I asked WS to cut you a break Mary.
Howsabout you cut him one as well?
Wiseman, I also know a young boy who ended up in the hospital a few weeks ago for 4 days after he smoked pot, he might have been allergic or it could have been laced with something, but he was psychotic for several days.A few years ago we had a couple of kids brought in after they smoked pot laced with formaldehyde, now that was bad.
“you’re proving my theory ”
You might be able to sell you theory if you had been right on anything, however, you have yet to post anything of value. You are always wrong on every subject.
Remember, you had “documentation” that Tiller said “yada, yada, yada” as reported in the WE?
Nice try.
Still waiting for your “links.”
Better to control the substance thru legalization then thru the black market.Then we would not have kids smoking laced pot.
“smoked pot laced with formaldehyde”
What a crock! Why would anyone lace marijuana with formaldehyde? Why bother? What the hell would be the purpose of lacing pot like that? Who would take the time and trouble to lace pot with formaldehyde?
Jeez – do you think we are all idiots?
I don’t have to prove a thing to you WS, I really don’t care enough about what you think that I would go through the trouble of trying to convince you of anything.What I find funny is that you are so defensive when it comes to the subject of drug abuse. You really have the system beat don’t you? Well, good for you, you’re so smart that we’re all really impressed.
Ok mixed with something else, yeah obviously that’s going to be a problem Mary, but that’s not what we’re discussing.
WC is right about it being easy to pass a drug test. Blood tests are just not used that often.
My mom used morphine for 6 months during her chemo, and she had withdrawal, not major withdrawal, but she had physical sweats and shakes enough that they had to put her back on it to wean her slower.
I should send you the pics of what they did to me after the C-Section Mary. It’s truly impressive.
No WS, I just think you’re an idiot. I thought pot was supposed to make you mellow? You’re certainly fired up for being a pot head.
Nice try, MC.
Still waiting for your “links.”
And I am not defensive, MC, in all actuality, I smoke pot about once or twice a month with select friends that stop by.
I just find your “know-it-all” self rightousness to be offensive.
You think you know all about “drug use” but you really don’t have a clue.
It’s nice to know you have some friends WS. I’m happy for you.
Americas war on murder seems to be a complete failure too.
Last I checked the murder rate was still around 10,000 a year.
I suppose we should give up and focus those needed police resources on more important crimes like writing traffic tickets…
Which last I checked people still seem to be speeding too…
Darn, is there anything we are “winning” in the fight on crime?
WSC: Actually, pot laced with formaldehyde is not that rare. The dealer claims it is laced with PCP. So the user will pay more than the going rate. Of course, they have no PCP, so they use formaldehyde — and the user is looking for the “higher” high. In the 60’s in Indonesia, you could only drink liquor than was “bottled in bond” and shipped in. Practically everything thing else was shipped in drums and bottled there and very often laced with formaldehyde enhance profits.
You’ll have to forgive Mary.
She won’t forgive you!
Pack for Palau Mary. Leave your sanctimony there.
Careful rm6046! WS will scream at you to provide links because he’s the only one who really knows anything about illegal drugs, the rest of us a full of it.
Oops! “to” enhance profits.
To argue that something is a failure because we didn’t stop it is just plain assinine.
When we are talking about drugs we are not just talking about legalizing pot.
We are talking about the legalization of many drugs which are not only addictive, but dangerous and harmful.
Which is why they are illegal.
I’ll be on the boat in 48 hours, JR! Want me to bring you back a seashell?
Actually, Mary, I have a fine relationship with WSC. My dog ain’t in you alls’ fight.
Nathan so you’ve smoked pot?
Nathan, you can’t use the voice of reason…that’s being self rightous and sanctimonious!Hope you’re doing OK.
I’m going to bed, I have to go to work in the morning and deal with all my drug addicted patients…just kidding. Goodnight, I’ll see ya all in two weeks.
Nathan: I’m talking about pot. Are you saying even though the War on Drugs is a bust, it’s still a success? That’s like the “I was for the war in Iraq, before I was against the war in Iraq: fiasco of a few weeks back, don’t you think?
“…if you smoked pot after a C-section, you’d just be high and in a lot of pain.”
Yes, Mary, but she wouldn’t CARE about the pain. ;)
Seriously, the comments you made sounded exactly like addiction to alcohol aka alcoholism. I can drink once or twice a year and have no problem. Someone else has one drink, and another, and another… It’s the addiction, not necessarily the “drug” in both instances.
Remember The Days of Wine and Roses? She had a chocolate addiction and he hooked her on grasshoppers. I think that movie said a LOT.
There is alcoholism in my birth family. Maybe knowing that is what keeps me from drinking, because I do have an addictive personality. I don’t know for sure about that, but I do know that knowing it kept me from doing drugs when I was young.
And just for the record, I don’t have a problem with legalizing pot. I don’t use it, either.
Ok informal poll…Of those who have smoked pot and actually got an effect from it- vote….legal and non-harmful..or illegal and harmful.
Now same thing for those who have not smoked pot .
I’ll bet by a HUGE margin, anyone who smoked pot is going to vote in the legal and non-harmful category.
LSD…not that’s some harmful stuff.
Politicl Mom,
I am saying the war on drugs is a success.
Are you really that ignorant Nathan?
Because you didn’t do it?
I find it funny that all the ones on here saying how bad it is, have never done it.
PMom: You nailed my vote — it should be legalized for many reasons and it is certainly no more harmful than alcohol. The only difference I see is that no one can come in my house with a search warrant and throw my ass in jail for the scotch and water I’m drinking. With that, I bid you all good night and sweet dreams.
“Attitudes about the perceived dangers of marijuana use are directly related to whether a voteradmits to having ever smoked marijuana before. Among those who have (which includes abouthalf 49% of all voters), 63% feel that the use of marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol.On the other hand, of those who say they have never used the drug, just 37% feel this way.”
http://www.field.com/fieldpollonline/subscribers/Rls2105.pdf
The War on Crime…
The War on Drugs…
The War on Poverty…
All failed.
So they come up with The War on Terror. I’d say we’re batting a thousand.
Look at Afghanistan. We controlled and beat back the poppy fields. It’s full of poppies again. Makes one wonder just who is gaining what.
It’s b.s., pure and simple. Things to make more money or do what they want to do, covering up whatever else they’re doing. What do you expect from politicians? They tell us what we want to hear, then go about doing what they want to do. Pitiful.
I tried it, but didn’t/couldn’t inhale. (Yeah, me and Bill. It burned my throat too bad.) So where do I fit into the informal poll? *grin*
Nathan: Paraphrasing Bill Clinton, I guess then it’s “how you define success”? And we won in Nam? And we’re liberating Iraq? It’s a good thing you don’t use drugs, friend. Your reality is scary enough for me.
Political Mom,
You don’t have to do something to form a well educated opinion on it.
Take for instance jumping of bridges.
I have never done it. But my studies have shown me the fatalites which have occured from it.
I think I can safely say that I think jumping of bridges is bad.
rm6046,
There will never be a victory against things like crime or drugs.
That is my point.
Simply because we will not stop everyone from speeding doesn’t mean we don’t try to make the roads safer by issueing traffic citations.
Same with drugs. We probably and most likely will never stop them, but it doesn’t change the fact that most of them are dangerous and deadly.
Nathan, yes it does matter. Using the bridge analogy just doesn’t cut it.
You’ve got all of us who have used it saying it’s really not dangerous. And everyone who hasn’t, saying it is.
Hmmm.
Mary might work in rehab, but I’ve been to rehab. And there were no people who strictly used pot there at all. The people in rehab were either hard core drug users, or drunks. But the thing about addiction is that if you use the hard drugs, you’re also more likely to use the soft drugs too, and once you go into recovery, you have to quit using ALL drugs, legal and illegal in order for your rehab to be successful. You can’t merely substitute drinking for a cocaine habit and be ok. ALL of them create an escape…and don’t allow you to focus on recovery.
Political Mom,
My analogy works just fine with anything, not just bridges.
I don’t have to try something to form a well educated opinion on it.
It should be noted that in the United States today, over 99.5% of all drugs are legal to possess and to manufacture. Each is subject to various forms of regulation at the federal, state and community level.
One post earlier stated that, “…currently illegal drugs are illegal because they are dangerous and addictive.”
This is of course nonsense, because if that were the standard for making a drug illegal, we would criminalize most of the pharmacopia.
Mr Cole is simply presenting the audience with one key question.
That is, Which is Better?
a) A drug production and distribution system that is legal and able to be regulated?
or
b) A system that is 100% unregulated and where dealers operate in our residential neigbhorhoods while actively marketing to and employing minors?
A legal, regulated drug system is not without problems.
It is, however, far preferable to a system that is 100% unregulated.
That’s why we’ve already legalized over 99.5% of drugs. All Mr. Cole is proposing is that we do the same for the remaining dozen or so that are currently marketed by street dealers.
All drugs should be legal, cheap and accessible to anyone over the age of consent. I’m tired of hearing this whole “well maybe pot but not this other stuff!” crap that I always see on comments. All drugs, yes, every drug is safe in moderation, when not cut with adulterants and when not marketed towards children. We do not need to “tax the hell” out of it. If you make it too expensive for a normal consumer then it will go right back to the black market. You tax them in moderation. We woudn’t NEED to tax the hell out of them if we weren’t incarcerating one million a people per year for possession and spending 70 billion dollars a year on the war on drugs.
I should also add that I too, when I don’t get my morning joint, am a raging asshole. What people who haven’t known me for more than a year don’t know is that that is me; I am a raging asshole. I found something that is essentially an anti-depressant, sleep aid and keeps me from having rage issues and snapping at people. But then there are people who haven’t known me long and see me have to abstain so that I can get another job or what have you, and think I’m going through “withdrawal.” No, that’s me going back to who I previously was, and THAT is not pretty.
I see it as medicine, I use not abuse, and I’m a criminal because I’d rather not be zombified with horrible side affects from Effexor or Ambien. All I want is to be left alone, regardless of how “damaging” it is to me. But I’m a second-class citizen, I suppose.
I didn’t say make it perscription. I said make it legal. Make everything legal and as available as alcohol and cigarettes.
And I don’t have to cry, because I am perscribed it. If it became medicinally legal I might actually be able to FIND IT without dealing with gangsters.
Every bit of scientific and social evidence we have points to widescale improvements in the country if we legalize. You’d know that if you weren’t a moron.
SteaveHeath,
The problem with your little comparison is that all of those regulated and manufactured drugs are not prescribed or sold for recreational purposes.
So what regulation or prescription process would you have in place for crack?
Give me a break. Did you even think about what you are saying?
JW,
“All drugs should be legal, cheap and accessible to anyone over the age of consent.”
“I didn’t say make it perscription. I said make it legal.”
Wow, I don’t even know where to begin with such ignorance.
You do realize there is a whole science behind the pharmacuitical industry don’t you?
That the Pharmicists take years of special classes and training on drugs?
You are going beyond simple legalization of street drugs to getting rid of the entire prescription system…
Do you know how many people die each year in this country from improperly used and prescribed drugs already?
Now you want them all to be readily accessable?
I G N O R A C E
I G N O R A N C E !
NATHAN is puzzled: The problem with your little comparison is that all of those regulated and manufactured drugs are not prescribed or sold for recreational purposes.
SH: We’ll presume you intended to use the term “non-vital medical purposes” rather than “recreational” which is a poor descriptive.
Of the several thousand legal drugs currently on the market, the two most commonly used are indeed marketed and purchased primarily for non-vital medical purposes. I refer to alcohol and caffeine.
It’s not real pertinent to the two core questions posed, but I wanted to provide a response to your question above and to the ones below:
N: So what regulation or prescription process would you have in place for crack?
SH: Based on my own life experiences using cocaine in both powder and rock form (none of either for past 12 years) and the histories shared with me by thousands of other cocaine users going back to the early 1980s, if powder cocaine were produced in a consistent fashion and made available through licensed and regulated dealers, the demand for “crack” cocaine would virtually vanish.
Crack is to powder what Everlear is to wine, whiskey and beer. IN short, it’s just WAY TOO HARD ON THE BODY. SO I can speculate that just as Everclear takes up about 1/10 of 1% of typical liquor store floor space, a pharmacy dispensing cocaine would have a couple boxes of cocaine rocks for those interested.
It would be a teeny tiny portion of the population, I can assure you.
====N: Give me a break. Did you even think about what you are saying?
SH: Given that I’ve been working in the area of drug treatment and recovery and speaking and writing publicly on the same topics for almost a decade, then oh yes, I’ve given very careful thought to what I’m saying.
A legal and regulated system is not without problems. You and I could both make valid lists of potential problems connected to a legal, regulated drug system.
But that list would pale in comparison to the destructive and community debasing effects wrought on us all when the drug system is on the streets and 100% unregulated.
One need not be a user of curently illicit drugs to recognize that risky drugs are best distributed in a legal, regulated setting.
It should be firmly noted that for those who want them, currently illicit drugs are right now “readily available”.
For those who remain a bit confounded by the reasoning for making drugs legal – it’s the only way we can subject them to meaningful and truly enforceable regulations.
Given that illegal drugs are produced in 100% unregulated settings, marketed with absolutely zero regulation; are sold out of residential homes; are actively marketed to minors; are actively SOLD by minors who have been recruited by the older deealers; provide motivation for dealers to conduct violence on the streets against police and civilians alike – We ask a simple question for anyone who may not quite yet get it.
WHICH DRUGS SHOULD be illegal? WHich drugs will we leave on the streets produced and distributed by criminal dealers who prey on our minors and who conduct violence against all in the community?
Which drugs merit that honor?
As the cops, judges and other criminal justice professionals of Law Enforcement Against Prohbition have learned, the answer is NONE.
There is no defensible reason for leaving even one dangerous drug on the street where it can more easily be marketed to minors.
For more on the mission of LEAP, readers are welcome to contact me by email heath at leap.cc
Thanks to all for the interesting feedback in this thread.
Yes, I do want them all available, Nathan, because in a pure form they are no more abusable or dangerous than current perscription drugs and their wealth of harmful side effects, which is to say that they are abusable and will always be whether they are perscribed or not. But the fact remains that pharmaceuticals are manufactured and that is why there is such a wealth of them. A good percentage of the illegal “drugs” grow straight out of the ground and have far fewer negative side effects than pharmaceuticals, and a whole slew of medicinal qualities that aren’t even allowed to be researched in the US because of their status. Our scientists have to leave the country to test them.
Who knows what kind of medicinal value we’re missing out on?
Not you. That’s for damn sure.
I haven’t gotten anything done. Whatever. I just don’t have anything to say.
Prayer in public schools are wrong, not wrong
Prisons treat, don’t treat prisoners too well
The U.S.-Mexican border fence works, doesn’t work
Males should be allowed to go shirtless at home only – Or vary with places for another persuasive speech topic
Blame the parents of a murderer parents for the crime
Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work
My life’s been completely unremarkable recently. I haven’t been up to anything. I just don’t have much to say. I’ve just been letting everything pass me by. Shrug. I don’t care.
Home schooling provides a better education, is worse for your child
Google Stillstand? Seit gut einer Woche taucht kein einziger Artikel, den wir schreiben, in den Index aufgenommen. Hat jemand ahnliche Erfahrungen? Normalerweise dauert das nur 1-2 Tage bis Google die Artikel im Index auffuhrt. Gehts es anderen auch so?
My mind is like a fog. Oh well. My life’s been really dull today. Eh. Today was a total loss. I’ve more or less been doing nothing , but I guess it doesn’t bother me.
My life’s been pretty dull these days. Such is life. I’ve basically been doing nothing.
My mind is like a fog. Oh well. My life’s been really dull today. Eh. Today was a total loss. I’ve more or less been doing nothing , but I guess it doesn’t bother me.