The weather-related cancellations of school and in-service days Monday served as a disappointing reminder of how many Kansas school districts still do not treat Martin Luther King Jr. Day as the federal holiday that it is — and has been for 21 years. At least in the case of the holdoutUtah Legislature, the holiday conflicts with a state constitutional mandate to convene on the third Monday in January. But it’s past time for Kansas schools to do as Wichita and some other districts do, and shut down to, as President Bush’s 2007 proclamation suggested, properly "honor the memory of a man who stirred the conscience of a nation."
Posted by Rhonda Holman
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Regular on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- Freebird1971 on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- Regular on Open thread 11/23
181 Comments
At the company where I work, King day is a paid holiday.
It is a paid holiday where I work as well. However, schools already have enough days off each year, why give the kids anymore days off?
So when will we impose Jessi Jackson and Al Sharpton day?
How about Rodney King day?
Oops! This part from the referenced news story got left out by Rhonda. :)
“”The Senate president, John L. Valentine, said he believed that the Legislature was honoring Dr. King by meeting on his holiday, since the first day of the session is largely ceremonial and includes speakers who address Dr. King’s legacy.
“I’ve always felt good about the fact we honored Dr. King at that time,” Mr. Valentine, a Republican, said. “It provides an overview for the attitude for the Legislature to take into its session. Personally, it would be very disappointing if we lost that.””
More time is spent studying Dr King that is spent studying the accomplishments of many of our Presidents and the Founding Fathers.
What would be a greater honor to King’s memory – a day that students attend class, giving them the opportunity to learn about King’s contributions to the civil rights movement? Or a day that students have free and would likely spend playing video games and watching television?
I get paid for the traditional holiday days, Christams day, New years day, Thanksgiving day, Memorial day and Independence day.I am happy having those days off but I would like to be off on the birthday of the man that has made a good life for him self and his family by busting his butt, learning new jobs and taking risks to better his life and for helping countless others. Who’s birthday would that be, MINE!
cln,
They call that Labor Day. :D
Clive – ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! In my son’s school they were in class and discussed the meanings of Dr. King’s legacy. I firmly believe that if you asked Dr. King how to commerate his birthday he would call for “learn baby learn”
It’s goofy to honor King in a manner that people take the day off from work, or from school. If the ‘problem’ of racism were solved – yes we could celebrate on this day by sleeping in.But – we ALL know racism is a problem so this day should be spent in education camps where hisory and modernn role playing help all children to learn about how to treat others that look differently than they.
jimg-Please provide a few examples of racism being a problem today.
Why don’t veterans get their own day off?
It’s should be called banker’s day.
woody, take this link.FBI (.gov)statistics on racist crimes.A clear, concise table.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table1.htm
Anti-black crimes in 2005?2,630 by 2,851 offenders.
Take the link.
You all suck. It is disgraceful not to give the holiday the respect it deserves. This year was the first (finally) year that they let kids out of school for MLKJR day, but disappointed that they also coined it a teacher work day.
As for Utah, they could change the day, it’s no excuse.
There were many celebrations of the day that parents may like to take their children to, in honor of him. Learning can happen outside of school too, you know.
why don’t they have Cracker day?
They do, it’s called Thanksgiving.
You know, the day that celebrates how whites brought disease and death to so many indians?
I think almost everyone needs a ’saved from the white man’ day.
Disclaimer, I don’t really mean that, but in light of all the anti-MLKJR sentiment today, it seemed fitting.
Fleet,Instances of racism today… Affirmative action. Nuff said.
Yup, the disease of electricity, telephones, motor cars, civilization….
Racism is still a problem today enema. It’s all around, hell just look at the board. Open your eyes man and look around you.
Why do we still have black parts of town? Why are blacks poorer on average than whites?
Oh, and you know those studies you like to argue with me about women who get paid less than men on pay equity…it’s worse for black men than even white women.(explain that one and how they choose to care for their kids instead of career)…that is comparing same education same type of work and same experience.
and black/hispanic women are lowest on the earnings for comparison.
So don’t even give me this nonsense.
Sol, you’re saying we had cars back in 1492?
Wow, now that’s a new one on me.
Civilization…gee now that’s a loaded word, are you going to sit here and call them savages too?
Civilization is not a standard of living, it’s how a people live. They already had civilization, till we practically killed them all.
Yeah, take a look at Africa now. What a bastion of civilization they have there.
Cars in 1492? When Chris sailed the ocean blue? Doesn’t even deserve a comment.
Look at the nations of the world that have succeeded. The ones that are ‘modern’. See a pattern?
There are many modern places in Africa.
The difference? They don’t have social programs and are totally capitalistic.
So you have your few ultra rich, and the masses are ultra poor. You know, the kind of place most of you wish we had here in the USA- or at least you THINK you want that, till you end up being one of the poor ones.
Pee,you don’t “end up” being anything. You have unlimited opportunity. If you don’t like what you have – CHANGE!
Dream a little dream.
And in this dream – make one of your goals to succeed WITHOUT dependence on the federal government.
All I asked for were examples of racism. I am still waiting.
Fleetwood,I gave you the biggest one already. Affirmative action.
Aren’t we all Americans? Isn’t singling someone out by race discrimination? Isn’t celebrating a day based on race discrimination?
Isn’t giving someone preferential treatment based on race racism? So having quotas of Blacks, Hispanics, Females, or anything is sexist and racist?
Why is OK to have an all black fraternity? Why is it OK to hire person X over person Y because they are of one race or sex and not another?
Why do we have programs to help just one race?
Racism is RAMPANT in our society.
Fleet,I’m out and about in the world every day. I eat lunch out most every day, and I don’t see people getting preferential treatment based on race. I don’t ride the bus often, but when I do, I don’t see anyone being forced to sit anywhere based on race. I don’t see seperate bathrooms or water fountains. My banker is black, so I don’t think my bank has lending policies based on race. I see white cops, black cops, hispanic firemen, asian city workers – so I don’t think our goverment discriminates.
Anyone else?
Sol,I COMPLETELY agree that Affirmative Action is a bad program. It needs to go.
Black fraternities? No way. People generally want to associate in clubs with like-minded people. That’s human nature.
If I don’t particularly enjoy the company of someone of a certain race, that’s not racism – it’s just personal preference.
It’s sad that we have MLKJR day in this day and age where the majority of the black culture objectifies women as sex objects, the gangbanger mentality, gangster rap, and the glorification of that lifestyle if music, movies, and games. Maybe if this wasn’t so glorified in the black community and they emphasized learning, achievement, and pulling yourself out of poverty then that mindset would change. Bill Cosby may be controversial in what he has said but he is right. I would bet also that if MLKJR was around today, that he would be appalled at the image that the black community puts forth.
Sol-Of course, you are right and I didn’t include it, but should have. I was hoping for some examples of another kind.
Fleet,Best of luck on that one. Let me know how it turns out for you… hee hee.
So discrimination was good when it served your purposes(lynchings, exclusions, humiliations). Now that you are not the sole beneficiary of discrimination, you complain and whine like someone stole your favorite toy. Why didn’t you speak out then when it was you who had the monopoly on discrimination?Now when someone attempts to level the playing field, you and everyone like you want to cry foul. sometimes you can prove how intelligent you are by not sharing your biggoted opinion.
I wasn’t alive during slavery. I wasn’t alive during segregation. So I guess I never got my piece of THAT pie.
And those benefiting from racism today, they were personally discriminated against?
Empty words T
Complain and whine? I’m not the one saying I deserve a job over someone else based on my race. I’m not the one demanding equality while in the same breath demanding preferential treatment because of my race.
So which is it? Every one is equal or a race deserves preferential treatment?
I’m still waiting for the examples of this:”But – we ALL know racism is a problem…” from jim g at 8:36Come on, it can’t be that hard.
BDP (Blog’s Dumbest Poster) Fleetwood asks for examples of racism when he’s got Horst F***ing NAZI Wessel’s post on this very blog.
What a maroon . . .
BTW, I watched the Original Blues Bros the other night instead of Bush’s Bullshit speech.
My favorite part HORST is where Jake and Elwood drive through the neo-nazi losers and they all jump into the river.
That’s you, you pathetic POS.
I don’t think ComradeAmerika understands the meaning of racism.
Just so I’m clear on this, a dumbass on a blog equals racism is a problem? Might you have any other stellar examples?
Yeah, that’s right, GoofBall–criticise me and say nothing about Horst and Ian.
Real nice.
My future wife lived in an apartment for awhile. When she got ready to move out, people kept coming to the door saying, “Isn’t this apartment for rent? I keep leaving messages and the landlord never gets back to me.”
The people asking were black and Asian. The landlord later told us that she didn’t want any of “those people” renting from her.
Racism in action, dipsh*ts.
And don’t you love how all the CONs think it’d be better to keep the kids in school so they can “study King,” while they never say that we should keep kids in school on Memorial Day to “study WW2″ or keep them in school on Thanksgiving to “study English separatists.”
More racism . . .
“Those people”? Were they Libs?
Ian–
I speak for thinking people everywhere–white and black, Jew and gentile, rich and poor–when I say “F**K YOU, IAN.”
Did I read this right?
Wichita schools do not observe Martin Luther King day?
That can’t be right, can it?
Capn, USD 259 observes MLKJr Day; must have misread, huh?
You that want to string up blacks in lynch mobs tell me that I have “blood on my hands.”
By their fruits, ye shall know them.
Your hate speech results in hate and violence. The only blood that is spilled is spilled by you and your ilk.
Ah, okay, I got it now. Wichita does, but ALL Kansas schools don’t.
Got it. And it’s still shameful.
capn-Are you all right? What’s with the lynch mob thing? Getting a little chin foam going?
Actually, Capn, the Wichita public schools and most of the private schools observe the day; IIRC, among the closings listed Monday due to weather was the Word of Life Tradtional School, so a fair implication is that particular entity does not observe the holiday.
So Capn, is Affirmative Action racist?
Fleetwood–
The only response you deserve anymore is BDP.
So Capn, is Affirmative Action racist?
Sol, too limiting in your question; forgot “sexist” there, too.
LYNCH MOBS ARE EVERYWHERE!!!FOAM FOAM FOAMWIPE WIPE WIPE
I see the rant-o-matic is on full throttle today.
OK, VT, you got me. Is it biased? That might cover everything.
They played his speeches on the radio yesterday (probably none of the local stations) and damn, his anti-war speech is still relevant to today’s useless corporate war. No wonder the conservative, power hungry government hated him so much.
I personally don’t support Affirmative Action–we need programs to help the disadvantaged but they should NOT be race based.
It should be based on income.
Doug,
No wonder they STILL hate him so much.
Even dead, he poses a threat to them.
Affirmative action is/was an attempt to redress certain societal wrongs arising from actual discrimination against individuals on the basis of race/sex/national origin/religion/ethnicity. Thus, by it’s own limiting terms, there is a race/sex/etc. bias built into the system. To my mind, this does not make it “racist”, “sexist”, etc., as these terms carry a negative connotation which isn’t present within the statutes, regulations, etc.
However, like beauty, bias is in the eyes of the beholder. I believe we as a society have come a long way, but I do not believe we are “color blind” as of yet. Frankly, I wish we were; then these discussions could be viewed as historical, rather than current.
I have a question for anyone who cares to answer: Does anyone believe Dr. Rice holds her current position for any reason other than her race and sex?
The reason for my above query is that it appears to my jaundiced eye there are many equally qualified persons for the job she holds who are not African-American females, and who hold congruent views on foreign policy, etc. While I am sure any “Affirmative Action” rationale for her appointment would be hotly disputed by the Administration, clearly the political benefits attained by her appointment are there.
Heh, good question, VT.
Now watch the CONs rise up in indignant outrage that “you, sir, could even ASK such a question!”
Go ahead and ask. The answer is no, she deserves it. She is quite capable with much experience.
I have to agree VT, she is a political pawn. She is a ‘yes man’ for Bush.
Hey, Horst-Please count me out.
From most of your comments, Fleetfuck, I would think that you would fit right in with the Aryan Nation folks.
Since the majority of whites (I am one too) are either racist or just don’t care, Dr. King will probably not get much more respect than he gets now. It is sad but true.
ws-Please show me one comment of which you speakhorst-Fuck you
VT-
Those are two separate, but related, questions.
1) Is Rice qualified for the job? Certainly. She has the job because of her background, abilities, temperment, loyalty, expertise, etc. All the things that all appointed Cabinet positions have (or should have) to hold the positions they do.
2) Does her race and gender play a factor in that? I’d like to think we were colorblind; my experience tells me that sadly, we are not. I have no doubt that Dr. Rice’s race and gender played a part in her appointment.
I gotta tell you, a Wichita attorney recently commented to me over the phone about those “damn lazy n——.” Don’t ask the attorney, I frankly can’t remember at this moment and would not tell you if I could. But I was appalled that such an ignorant statement could come from one well educated and practicing in this profession. Good God.
So- like VT; I’d like to think we have a “colorblind” society. Someday, we may get there. We’re not there yet. And while we’ve made enourmous strides, we’re not as close to that society as many cloistered whites like to think. As much as Aff. Action gets under my skin (it is, after all, discrimination based on race), I can understand the justification for it. At times, race is a factor that should be considered, along with the full panopoly of other factors.
It’s sad, but for now it is reality. Perhaps our children, or their children, will cross that barrier. However, human nature being what it is, I doubt that race (and other stupid reasons as well) will ever cease to be a reason for discrimination. Sad, but true.
Easy Fleet, you are always on the side of the reich-wing, two-faced war-mongering Limbaugh-lovers.
But I am not going to do your research for you – you pull that same lie all the time.
Quote from Rush – “Take that bone out of your nose and call me back!” to a African American caller.
So, sir, your post regarding my comments and the Aryan Nation were pulled from where?
I said that you should be lumped in with the haters and reich-wingers like KSGolfnut and Ian Santiago, etc…. And now Horst.
WOODY….I answered you about modern examples, right after you asked.Once again with a highly reliable source AND link:
“woody, take this link.FBI (.gov)statistics on racist crimes.A clear, concise table.”
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table1.htm
Posted by: TRACY | January 16, 2007 at 09:09 AM
Anti-black crimes in 2005?2,630 by 2,851 offenders.
Take the link.
WS -
Fleet asked for any statements he has made which would indicate racism on his part. You’ve provided none.
Instead, you embarked on a smear “guilt by association” campaign. Typical.
It’s a serious charge. You made it, you bear the burden of supporting it. Absent some statement which you can point to which would support your accusation, you appear to owe Fleet an apology on this one.
Last week I have asked a young black lady in her early thirties what she was planning to do on MLK day.I was dumb founded in disbelief when she responded to me with a question of “Who is Martin Luther King?”Seriously she did not know who MLK was and I suspected that the younger generation was not learning any history and do not care about it.Can any of you on this blog elaborate on this?
So what about the link?I brought the info.Anybody give a damn?
My link is not heretical anything.It’s the FBI.
GM…………..
Fleet has accused me of being a traitor, guilty of treason and should be hung, anti-American, Bush hater (guilty on that one), blame America first-er, etc.
He has also accused me and “my ilk” of undermining the war effort and the morale of our troops, etc, etc.
Fleet throws insults and unfounded accusations around like most people throw pennies in a wishing well; and I need to PROVE my accusation?
That is an interesting contradiction, don’t you think?
Fleet has posted that I should be hung for treason and I owe HIM an apology?
Really?
Ian you’re goddamn dispicable.
How in the world does MLK advocating non-violence, and having been dead all these years have a goddamn thing to do with two black murderers who weren’t even fucking alive then?
Shit for brains, that’s what ya’ got peanut.
:ZAP: :ZAP: Can’t we all just :ZAP: get along? :ZAP:
I’m not trying to infer or start anything, but I have often wondered if Black rascism exists and to what degree does it manifest itself?
Idon’t think I’ve ever heard the term, but all people being essentially the same, I suppose it does.
??
WS -
You miss the point. This isn’t about what fleet may have said (aside from this issue). You made the statement. You have provided nothing to suppport same.
Instead, you now go to the “yea, but he hit me first” gambit. My kids used that when they were little; surely you can do better.
You carry the burden. You made the accusation. Provide any support for same.
Otherwise, yes, you owe fleet an apology.
So, GM, you are okay with Fleetfuck and his asssertion that I should be hung, etc, but I owe him an apology.
Funny, I never saw you post that Fleetfuck should apologize to me.
ws-I have previously said the traitor/treason charge was harsh and I have taken it back.All the rest I will stand by.
I uderstand Fleet that you “play” in a band. Please give us the name of the band so we can avoid spending a nickel in cover charges or patronize the establishments that hire you.
I am the lead singer for Nickleback.
Tracy,I guess I’m not buying into your link too much because of the terms used and how crimes are reported.
Watch Cops a few times and see who is committing the crimes.
Nickelback???? You ROCK Fleetwood. Can I get an autograph?
Hey WS, put up or shut up. Can you back up your accusation? As you are so keen to say ‘Answer the question’
Blacks cannot be racist. They can be prejudiced and some are. But really, who can blame them? If I were treated by America as badly as they were for 200 years, I would be more than pissed off. America has never even apologized for slavery or for segregation that lasted 200 years to the Negro citizen YET America saw fit to apologize and even pay the Japs who were interned in camps for only a few years during the 1940s after Japan attacked the USA! Do you folks get the point here? America is running out of time to make right the wrongs she has done to the Negro.
GM – answer the question…..
“Fleet has posted that I should be hung for treason and I owe HIM an apology?”
“I am the lead singer for Nickleback”
That means you are a Canadian and this is an American issue. And when will Canada make Dr King Day a holiday? We are still waiting.
Sollie, if you go further into that link’s site, you can find all the information you need.If you’re gettin your info from Cops, all I got to say is,hehehe, hahahah you’re kidden me.right?I’ll bet you watch Survivor too.(Lord of The Flies for maroons)
Yes, Sol, I am very famous and rich. No autographs, please. I am an arteeste.I do not need anything from ws.When I saw how he went off and got foamy on the traitor charge, I couldn’t help myself. It was mean and not true, but he and his kind DO demoralize the troops and undermine the war effort. I won’t retract that.
WS -
Yes. Simple enough?
kev-I sing for the whole world to enjoy. Dr. King was an American, why would my great country (Canada) have a holiday for him.Mostly we are too busy hoping the US protects us from the bad guys since we won’t do it for ourselves.
So woody, you didn’t even take the link after you asked for proof, huh?
BTW, I’m really Bono.Or Sting.Okay, you’re right.I’m Ozzy.
Oh, and fleet – Lead singer for Nickelback??
Y’all buying that? I’m not.
BS.
p.s.-I also lead the Aryan Nation of Canada in my spare time. It’s a small group. Not many Blacks up here.
Yuh Huh!
Cute.
So, GM, advocating the execution of an American citizen for treason is an acceptable comment to you, but referring to someone as a potential candidate for the far right militia group Aryan Nation requires an immediate apology?
No wonder you reich-winger were so damned anxious to impeach Clinton, but want to give Bush and Cheney as pass….
… you’re all hypocrits.
You’re not Ozzy, Tracy.
I can actually understand what you writing/saying.
Ozzie Osborne sounds like a drunk bassett hound reciting pig latin poetry.
Fleetwood, thanks.If you’re the canadian leader then your name is Terry Long.
If you’re the singer you name is Chad Kroeger.
You’re officially schizo, dude.
ws, are you still blabbering on? Like they said when somebody was in big, big trouble for being a fat liar,Move On.
tracy- You went to the trouble to look up the leader of the Aryan Nation of Canada? Is there such a thing?My real name is Terry Chad Long. You got me.
JM, YOU’RE RIGHT!!I saw Ozzy in Tulsa when Boston opened for Sabbath with their first album.Boston BLEW THEM AWAY!Ozzy was so freakin drunk and stoned he couldn’t even remember his own lyrics.
Otherwise, yes, you owe fleet an apology.
Posted by: GMC70 | January 16, 2007 at 01:32 PM
————-Wild monkeys will fly out of my hiney before DA apologizes to Fleet. Or me. For ANYTHING.
Believe it.
WS -
Stick to the point. I note you’ve still provided no support for your accusation. I’ll take that as an admission there is none.
You’ve instead resorted again to name calling. Sad.
Woody, I’m really an undercover operative, Ozzy is my code name.You’re under surveilance.
GM – This was my original post:
“From most of your comments, Fleetfuck, I would think that you would fit right in with the Aryan Nation folks.”
Visit the Aryan Nation website(s) and then tell me that Fleetwood would not fit right in. Even David Duke managed to clean up his language for public consumption, as Fleet has, but the fact remains, that Fleet would fit right in.
I stand by my statement.
And I wouldn’t accept an apology from Fleetfuck if it was branded into his forehead by his favorite cowboy, George W Bush.
DA,Dude. Lighten up.
Bush can’t be a cowboy.He’s from Connecticut.
KSG,If WS were to start to unwind a bit, I think the whole spool of twine would erupt off the spool. That dude is a little too tightly wired….
Tracy,I do watch Cops. Not ashamed of that in the least. It’s a good show. That was just a ready reference. There are a lot of facts out there that point to the same thing. Ian has provided one or two.
Survivor, nah, gotta pass on that one.
24? Yuppers. “EVERYBODY DOWN !!!!!!”
“You’ve instead resorted again to name calling. Sad”
Sorry, GM, but what I posted was true.
My post……….
“So, GM, advocating the execution of an American citizen for treason is an acceptable comment to you, but referring to someone as a potential candidate for the far right militia group Aryan Nation requires an immediate apology?”
You apparently do not see the hypocrisy of your position.
You are demanding an apology from me to Fleetwood because I suggested that from what he posts (the collective feable effort) I think that he would be be confortable with the folks from Aryan Nation.
I suggested from his general attitude dismissive of anyone that disagrees with his right wing position and his advocating capital punishment for those that do not rise to his preferred level of “patriotism,” that he would be comfortable with like-minded individuals. That would include folks from the Aryan Nation.
Tell me where I am wrong, GM.
Sol,I agree. I’m sure it’ll be an episode right out of “Cops” when that twine finally snaps.
I wonder if he’s prone to wearing a wife-beater…?
Funny group, these right wingers. They demand apologies when one of thir own is insulted, but they are okay with heaping trash on those that disagree with them.
And they want ME to lighten up?
Funny group.
And hypocritical to boot.
WS -
You keep changing the subject. I can certainly understand why.
You accused Fleet of being a racist. Period. The accusation was clear. Fleet’s own writing, on this thread, suggests otherwise, clearly disassociating himself with the Horst idiot. But you maintian this position despite the lack of evidence in support. You’ve now gone back to the guilt by association tactic.
FACT: You have yet to provide a SINGLE statement made by Fleet to support the conclusion he’d fit right in with that racist organization. You can stand by it to your heart’s content, but it’s no less unsupported. If he said what you say he said, as much as fleet posts, it shouldn’t be that hard.
I must conclude you lack such a statement.
YOU carry the burden here. Put up or shut up.
Sollie empathizes with IAN.Well I’ll be go to hell.I gotta spread this all over.Sollie is another racist pendejo!WOW.That explains a lot.
“I suggested from his general attitude dismissive of anyone that disagrees with his right wing position.”
Substitute “left” for “right” and you have . . . wait . . . yes, it’s . . . why, it’s WSClark.
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Tracy,Not racist, just followed one of his links.
“You accused Fleet of being a racist.”
No, GM, I said that Fleet would fit right in with the Aryan Nation folks. I said from most of his posts, suggesting a collective impression from MOST of his posts.
I also asked you this question, GM:
“So, GM, advocating the execution of an American citizen for treason is an acceptable comment to you, but referring to someone as a potential candidate for the far right militia group Aryan Nation requires an immediate apology?”
So, “Put up or shut up.” GM.
Well, a real member of the Aryan Nation has joined us.
Tell us, Ian, don’t you think that Fleetwood would fit right in?
Tracy
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
Dang, those are the same. Sorry, lots of data on the page.
Don’t change the subject, WS. Fleet’s already covered that ground.
So . . . now you say Fleet’s position as a racist is a “collective impression” from “MOST” of his posts (caps in original).
So, it shouldn’t be hard to find a number of representative examples??
Make your case, if you can, WS. I suspect you can’t. That’s why you change the subject.
When one is in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging.
Stop digging, WS.
Thanks for the link Sollie.From the link you provided:
“Although slightly less true now than before,most murders are intraracial.”
First of all, I didn’t change the subject, GM. I have stayed on topic the whole time. The point was that I said that Fleet would be comfortable with the folks from Aryan Nation, based on MOST of his posts.
Why is that so damned hard to understand?
And I am not sure which “ground” you say that Fleet has covered. He certainly hasn’t answered the question as to why I should apologize, but YOU are okay with him suggesting that I be hung.
I am not digging, GM, but I am making you look like the hypocrit that you are.
BTW, Ian,I don’t support forced integration, affirmative action or amnesty for illegals.
I also don’t support half-breed immigrants like YOU coming to MY country and telling me who to hate!I hate Fred Phelps, Ian Santiago, Horst Weazel.
Anybody else I should throw in there?Sollie, sounds like you’re right in step with Ian?
Wiseman, to answer your query posted upthread, I suspect your respondent was in high school when the attempt was still being made to cover U.S. History in one course; unfortunately, much, much was omitted/glossed over in those days.
Now, at least in the schools with which I am familiar, the U.S. History course is a two year requirement, allowing a bit more depth to be given to the subject. Example: elder daughter, graduated in 1998 from high school, her class made (barely) WWII when history was a one credit course; younger daughter, graduated 2004, after transition to a 2 credit course, class made through (again barely) 1985 or so.
Otherwise, perhaps she was absent that day, or was distracted when the teacher spent 30 seconds on MLK?
WS
“I said that Fleet would be comfortable with the folks from Aryan Nation, based on MOST of his posts.”
And by making that statment, you called Fleet a racist. That’s not so hard to understand. We all got what you said.
What is so hard to understand is, simply, based upon what do you make such an accusation?
STILL A FACT: You have repeatedly failed to provide a SINGLE statement that would support such an allegation. NOT ONE. ZERO. NADA. NIL.Instead, you hem, haw, divert, “yea, but,” “he was mean to me first,” etc.
That says it all.
Until you can and do provide same, I’m done with you on this subject, WS. And if the best you can do is make unfounded accusations and smear by your asserted associations, please, by all means, stay away from the meet-up.
And take a nap.
ws-I have previously said the traitor/treason charge was harsh and I have taken it back.All the rest I will stand by.
Posted by: fleettwood | January 16, 2007 at 01:35 PM
I do not need anything from ws.When I saw how he went off and got foamy on the traitor charge, I couldn’t help myself. It was mean and not true, but he and his kind DO demoralize the troops and undermine the war effort. I won’t retract that.
Posted by: fleettwood | January 16, 2007 at 01:46 PM
ws-I am sure you have read the above two posts. There is another out there someplace from a few days ago, also.Why do you continue to play the victim on this? I’ve retracted it already.MoveOn.dope
At my next concert, you will not be invited back stage. I mean it this time.
The ideas and teachings of the Rev Dr Martin Luther King were universal and not limited to just one nation. You celebrate the birth of Jesus and he was not Canadian either. And I don’t think anybody wants to attack Canada because Canada does not seem to want to oppress and boss the rest of the world around so you can quit worrying about that.
“kev-I sing for the whole world to enjoy. Dr. King was an American, why would my great country (Canada) have a holiday for him.Mostly we are too busy hoping the US protects us from the bad guys since we won’t do it for ourselves.”
The ideas and teachings of the Rev Dr Martin Luther King were universal and not limited to just one nation. You celebrate the birth of Jesus and he was not Canadian either. And I don’t think anybody wants to attack Canada because Canada does not seem to want to oppress and boss the rest of the world around so you can quit worrying about that.
“kev-I sing for the whole world to enjoy. Dr. King was an American, why would my great country (Canada) have a holiday for him.Mostly we are too busy hoping the US protects us from the bad guys since we won’t do it for ourselves.”
Query, would an “in service” day count as a day of instruction under the requisite statutes/regulations? If so, was scheduling an in service day on MLK day a way to fit the number of required days into the calendar without extending the year, while allowing the students to not be present?
Hey, found another America Hater.
“And I don’t think anybody wants to attack Canada because Canada does not seem to want to oppress and boss the rest of the world around so you can quit worrying about that.” By Kev @ 3:21
Way to go, Kev!
BDP “loves” America the way a four year old girl loves her daddy.
Daddy can be a drunken, unemployed, wife beating armed robber, but his little girl loves him so . . .
BDP Fleetwood is that little girl.
BDP “loves” America the way a four year old girl loves her daddy.
Daddy can be a drunken, unemployed, wife beating armed robber, but his little girl loves him so . . .
BDP Fleetwood is that little girl.
Such a damn good post, they posted it twice, apparently . . .
“Instead, you hem, haw, divert, “yea, but,” “he was mean to me first,” etc”
Let me explain this real S-L-O-W-L-Y for you, GM.
My opinion that the poster that calls himself Fleettwood would be comfortable with the folks from Aryan Nation was based on MOST, that is, his collective body, of posts on this blog.
To support my point, I would have to copy and paste N-E-A-R-L-Y all of said posters entries.
Futhermore, I was stating my (that would be William Stephenson Clark’s) opinion about said poster that uses the nickname of “FLEETWOOD.”
For me, (that would be WSClark,) to copy and paste MOST of the poster by the nic of Fleettwood or his previous nickname of Hotlick, would take me several days to research.
I have other things to do besides research all of Mr. Fleettwood/Hotlicks posts on this blog, known as WE Blog, over the past six or seven months.
My contention (that being WSClark) is that Mr. Fleettwood/Hotlick is an intolerant individual that sees himself as being superior to others, particularly those that are liberal, minorities or of non-traditional faiths.
Those are the type of people that are attacted to organizations such as the Aryan Nation and other groups that claim superiority.
And the point for Mr. Fleettwood/Hotlick was that “his people” do not have a problem with him calling for my execution, but they do have a problem with me (that would be WSClark) suggesting that Mr. Fleetwood/Hotlick is somewhat less than a good tolerant citizen.
The point was, Mr. Fleettwood, suggesting that hanging someone is apparently okay with Mr. GMC70 and you (that would be the person that calls himself Fleetwood and that I call Fleetfuck) but you are so deeply offended by my suggestion that you (Fleetfuck) are intolerant.
Thereby proving my point that the right wing posters on this blog (WE Blog) are hypocrits.
I am not asking for an apology from you (Mr. Fleettwood) or anyone else, I am merely stating my opinion, as is my right (that being WSClark) that you reich wing folks are a bunch of lying hypocrits.
Now, how is that so different than suggesting that I be hung?
BTW – I have very good taste in music, Mr. Fleetfuck, so there is no chance that I would attend one of you concerts. Based on MOST of your posts, I would imagine that you suck as a musician, also.
ws-I would like to make this as simple as possible for you.I would not want you to cut and paste and research til the cows come home. That is boring.I would like one, just one, example of this Aryan Nation bent you say I have. Just one.Now you have hurt my musical feelings, too.
I guess that I am going to have to go real slow for you, too.
[1] Fleettwood rarely adds anything to the thread.
[2] Fleettwood usually responds to someone else’ comments with an insult or intolerant comment.
[3] To fully understand my thought that Mr. Fleettwood, his alter-ego Hotlick, is a candidate for the Aryan Nation, I would have to copy and paste HUNDREDS (100’s) of blog entries.
[4] Proving my contention about Mr. Fleettwood would be similar to proving that George W Bush is a lying moron without a soul. While a single speeach or clip would not be proof; the collective (a.k.a. most of) documentation would have to be used to prove the point.
[5] In conclusion, there is not just one single post that can be used to prove the point; it would be necessary to look at all the posts in context.
[6] It is not possible to hurt your feelings, Fleettwood. That would imply that you had an element of compassion and sensitivity, which you obviously do not possess.
I can’t resist!!! (Sorry, all)
WS – That’s a long way of saying: “No, I can’t support my allegation.”
Anything else is hot air (or here, hot type keys).
GMC?
Taking up with BDP fleetie?
Click
click click
Ewwww those are credibility points falling away!
I thought you did prosecution not defense. And here it is defense of the most vile.
MLK Speech–
“They [the Vietnamese] watch as we poison their water, as we kill a million acres of their crops. They must weep as the bulldozers roar through their areas preparing to destroy the precious trees. They wander into the hospitals, with at least twenty casualties from American firepower for one “Vietcong”-inflicted injury. So far we may have killed a million of them — mostly children. They wander into the towns and see thousands of the children, homeless, without clothes, running in packs on the streets like animals. They see the children, degraded by our soldiers as they beg for food. They see the children selling their sisters to our soldiers, soliciting for their mothers.
“What do the peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?
“We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation’s only non-Communist revolutionary political force — the unified Buddhist church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men. What liberators?”
No wonder they had to kill him. He refused to live in silence against injustice, and that was costing corporate America money . . .
Seriously, Kev, blacks can’t be racist???? What hole did you grow up in??
By Definition (from Webster’s Dictionary)Main Entry: rac·ismPronunciation: ‘rA-”si-z&m also -”shi-Function: noun1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race2 : racial prejudice or discrimination- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
NOTHING in that definition says that only one race can be racist… Now, I am not saying that many whites are not racist. But my arguement is that many blacks/asians/hispanics etc. are racist as well. In fact, many of the MOST racist people I know are black. You know, of the whole, 200 years ago someone i MIGHT have been related to MIGHT have been a slave for someone you MIGHT have been related to so you owe me, kind of mindset. Well, for the record. I think racism is abhorrent. I think that EVERYONE, man, woman, race, color – We ALL were created equal and we ALL should be treated equal. I realize this is a rather utopian view and that it is not reality. But it is my personal belief. But it is also my belief that simply because I have blonde hair and blue eyes does NOT give anyone else the right to say I owe them for something that happened 200 years ago. And the ONLY ancestors I had here during the time of slavery were American Indian, so, I am going to go with, NO, I don’t owe you anything. Now, if I personally today do something personally to you based on your race, then by all means I owe you something. But I KNOW I would never do anything like that, because it goes against every single belief system I have. So, Kev, before you jump on the “blacks can’t be racist” bandwagon, maybe you should do some more research. ANYONE can be racist, regardless of their race, or maybe because of. A black person who hates a white person because they are white is JUST AS MUCH of a racist as a white person who hates a black person because they are black…
“WS – That’s a long way of saying: “No, I can’t support my allegation.”
Nice try, GMC. This is what I posted:
[4] Proving my contention about Mr. Fleettwood would be similar to proving that George W Bush is a lying moron without a soul. While a single speeach or clip would not be proof; the collective (a.k.a. most of) documentation would have to be used to prove the point.
I have noticed, however, Mr. GMC, that you have not refuted my contention that you are a hypocrit.
Earlier today, GMC, you accused me of being less than forthcoming about Clinton and impeachment on the “Libby thread.” I proved you WRONG on that count – is that why you are attacking me today?
Holy Moly, ws!Convoluted you are.I only asked for one example, but you say it would take hundreds to show my affinity for the Arian Nation. Howza ’bout five examples, then. I would like to make this as easy as possible for you. Or maybe only three examples. Make it easy on yourself. I would still take just one. Come on!
jimg-Please provide a few examples of racism being a problem today.
Posted by: fleettwood | January 16, 2007 at 08:42 AM
I’m STILL waiting.
I think that’s right as far as it goes, Wendy.
But what characterizes racism as opposed to simple discrimination as being in a power position that allows you to act upon that racism.
So my wife’s former landlady, who was white, denied tenancy to one of her properties because she only wanted whites.
That’s racism, and it’s illegal.
If you can find an example of a black landlord not renting to whites, say, that would be racism too, but I suspect that this is about as common as sexual harassment by a woman against a man.
When I mentioned lynching, the reich-wing went all “foaming ranter” on me. But apparently when Texas red-necks drag a black man to death behind their pick-up truck for no other reason than he was black and they didn’t like blacks, that elicits no outcry from them nor shows any evidence of systematic racism despite the dead man’s gravesite getting repeatedly desecrated, heigh ho.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402EFD9143CF93BA35756C0A9629C8B63&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fB%2fByrd%2c%20James%20Jr%2e
When you can show example after of example of whites getting killed by organized mobs of blacks with the explicit goal of terrorizing them, when you can show systematic and continual economic harm by blacks against whites as a group, when you can show how blacks have denied whites their civil rights, then you can talk seriously about “reverse racism.”
JR -
As I’ve said again and again, I don’t keep score, and don’t take “sides.”
And fair is fair.
If one is to be accused of being a racist, as WS did to Fleet, the accuser has the burden to prove up his accusation. WS has utterly failed to do so.
Fair is Fair. I don’t have a problem admitting error, and it’s not personal with WS – as he’d note, himself, on an earlier thread. And I’m not “attacking” anyone; just asking for WS to support his contentions. He can’t, apparantly.
Fleet is not the most sane poster. And I frankly don’t agree with him often. But fair is fair.
We’ve been round and round on this same issue, JR, when you make accusations and refuse to support them. The accuser carries a burden. WS can’t meet that burden. He provides excuses and attempts to divert attention, but at bottom line, the result is the same.
He made a serious and damning charge. And he can’t provide any evidence to support it.
That calls for fairness, in anyone’s book.
Left wing – Bush is a lying moron because he said “put food on your family.”
Right wing – That doesn’t prove anything other than he misspoke! You all are Bush haters! Clinton, blah, blah!
Left wing – Fleetwood would be comfortable with members of the Aryan Nation.
Right wing – Prove it, prove it, Fleetwood is a good boy that loves everyone!
Left wing – I said that he was a candidate for the Aryan Nation based on his collective posts.
Right wing – you have to come up with ONE SINGLE POST so that we can accuse you of taking his comment out of context.
Left wing – I showed you where Fleetwood made unsubstantiated accusations and you did not defend the left winger, why do you expect an apology for the right winger?
Right wing – You changed the subject – you are bad – take a nap!
Left wing – And you wonder why we accuse you of hypocrisy?
GMC – “He made a serious and damning charge.”
Fleetfuck – “You are a traitor and should be hung!”
GMC – “Not the same, not the same!”
According to GMC, the Liberals have to play fair. Liberals wear pick tutu’s and they never fight back. We can say anything we want about Liberals and they have to take it!
GMC – Why are Liberals fighting back!!!
BTW – GMC, your cars suck.
Not the most sane poster?’Sup with that?ws-Again, I have retracted the traitor comments. This makes the 4th? 5th? time. Come on.
Bush lied when he said he put food on your family? That’s just silly.
Okay Fleet, I play for game for a round or two – until you run home crying to your Momma. Hell, just to make things a little more equal, I’ll have a smoke, drink a few beers and do a little house cleaning while I am at it.
Now – You accused me of hating America.
Prove it.
“Bush lied when he said he put food on your family? That’s just silly.”
Lying MORON, Fleet, MORON. There are TWO parts to the statement.
MORON.
Thank you for your input Vaughn Tolle, now I know and it makes sense.How ironic on how history is forgotten and twisted in such a short time.The same as for topics on a blog.
Capn – I am not saying that there isn’t major racism perpetrated by the whites. what I am saying is that Kevin’s statement that blacks can’t be racist (and I quote) is ridiculous, because blacks can and are (not all of them for those of you that would jump on that) I stated that I realize i have utopian view that everyone is created equal, in all walks of life. but “reverse racism” is an OXYMORON> by definition, and I quote again from websters dictionary – Racism : Main Entry: rac·ismPronunciation: ‘rA-”si-z&m also -”shi-Function: noun1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race2 : racial prejudice or discrimination- NOTHING IN THIS DEFINITION SPECIFIES THAT ONLY ONE RACE CAN BE RACIST – all it specifies is that the racist has to believe that their race is superior – Now, I, as any intelligent, educated person should, realize that the majority of racism descends from whites. But to claim that blacks (or any other race for that matter) CANNOT be racist seriously offends my sensibilities BECAUSE of the fact that I PERSONALLY have been discriminated against. By people of other races, HELL, by people of the same race as I, for that matter, simply because I am a woman,or because I am white,or I am a single parent, or becuase my son’s father is Mexican, or any number of other reasons. And to tell me that those people CANNOT be racist is BS. That’s my point CAPN… perhaps you should read my post more closely – I never said whites weren’t or couldn’t be racist, or weren’t the more predominant racists. But my argument was to the fact that ALL races can be and ARE racist…
Yes, there are some blacks who are just as racist as some whites. Depends on what area you live in too.
There are plenty of places where outright racism is alive and well, in both ways.
I do agree that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are NOT part of the solution, they advocate for one side, not all sides.
Bill Cosby is one who should stand up and become a more vocal leader in this fight.
Just like when a woman says sexual harrassment when there is none, it hurts women who truly are harrassed or raped.
And when there is real discrimination, they are hurt by the ones who cry it when there is none.
There is a reason why impoverished people are least likely to move up in the world, and it’s not because of motivation, it is because of opportunity first and foremost. Testicles always says how easy it is- but he also says that from a priviledged little rich boy view.
Ivan you keep bringing up the same comment and link, I would not consider it a valid association to MLK.A crime committed by a common person is mostly of out of desperation influence by lack of education to remedy a dire situation such as lack of money, drugs, being patience and self-discipline when it comes to conflicts of relationships.There is no conspiracy.Racism is in many forms, you would have a better understanding of it if you would learn to see that there are GOOD and BAD in all race of people.I, my self-have chosen to see people by the works that they do, how they contribute to the community as a whole, this is the real measurements of a person.When the new Black History Museum opens up, I am going to see it because I am interested in seeing how the black Americans has contribute their share of the making of the United States.
What happen to Ivan that was on this blog?
You’re right about Cosby Mom. However he gets shouted down and ostracized by the media and leaders of the African American community when he speaks his opinion.
A point I have pondered before, as the politics of race attempt to shoehorn human beings into racial groups is this. In this country, a mixed race person with any amount of African American heritage is probably considered “black”. If a person of mixed racial heritage like Barrak Obama or Tiger Woods was a resident of a majority black country like say, South Africa, would he be considered white? I doubt it. Why not? What’s the magic formula?
DC Talk had a great song maybe 10 years ago called “Colored People”.
I’m sorry Pmom, I just don’t see how anyone in this country is denied an opportunity to accomplish any goal they have…give us some examples. Isn’t education available to everyone? If someone is truly motivated to make a life for themselves, what’s going to hold them back?
A black person, no matter how much he hates me as a white person, can have no effect on me because he has no power over me. He cannot cost me my job because I don’t work for him. He cannot deny me food because he does not own the stores I shop in. He cannot deny me medical care because I am not depndent on him for it. He cannot jail me because whites run the so called “justice” system. So there is a difference between racism and prejudice here.
How about just completely end racial classifications? Why have them in the first place? Do they serve any purpose other than to divide us?
It is contradictory to argue that racial designations are necessary for the purposes of the goal of colorblind society. How could we ever achieve that goal through racial politics? No way.
The fact is that the USA has only just recently and reluctantly given the black Amewrican any opportunities beyong the lowest places in society. I remember as a child all the Negros even in Wichita being forced to live in a small area of NE Wichita and being denied employment except as dishwashers and cab drivers. Because of that many of these same blacks suffer today. They suffer in lower retirement and Social Security pay because they were unable to get jobs like policeman and firefighter that offer good retirement. It was not until I was a teenager that I saw a black policeman in Wichita.
Mary I thought we already established this- and you agreed with me, when it comes to opportunities for poor people.
As a group, blacks have been traditionally poorer. The opportunities for them are not the same.
It is FACTUAL that blacks earn less than whites, even in jobs and education equals. Why would that be if we have acheived equality? Why is it that most CEOs are white men?
USA today did a nice piece on that this morning.
If you have to work a job for less, you have to work 2 jobs to just survive, how are you going to get a higher education?
I really wish you had seen Oprah’s story on the differences between inner city schools and suburban schools. The cirriculum, the expectations, the support, the OPPORTUNITIES, were far greater for the whites hands down.
Mary I like you but your pontificating from on high is getting just a little irritating. I am truly beginning to think you graduated from the Ronald Reagan school of compassion.
Or maybe you’ve just been around rich people too long.
Howsabout you make with the examples?
There is no reason why blacks or any minority can’t get ahead today. It’s when we expect others to provide our opportunities that we’ll most likely be disappointed, but if a person is motivated and willing to work hard, who can stop them?I work with nurses of many different races and nationalities, no one gets paid less or has less opportunity because of their race or heritage, the ones who make the most money are the ones who are motivated to work hard and take advantage of the opportunities available. Of course I agree that things haven’t always been this way..and that we still have a way to go before we achieve true equality, but it takes time and things are getting better. Think of your experience as a woman, I know I’ve been discriminated against because of my gender on more than one occasion, but no one else’s determination of my worth or capabilities has ever held me back from achieving my goals. To say that I can’t achieve a better life or earn as much as a man because I’ve been discriminated against is just allowing myself to fail while blaming it on someone else. Getting ahead isn’t easy, and maybe it’s harder for some more than others, but it isn’t impossible for anyone to reach their gaols if they have the tenacity to stick with something and work hard until they achieve it. To make the excuse that I can’t get ahead because of my gender is a total cop out.
JR, I don’t have a problem with compassion, I know what it’s like to be poor, I’ve been there. I work with poor people everyday..I hang out with them more than any “rich” people. I just don’t buy the belief that a person can’t get ahead no matter how hard he tries because of the actions of others. Those who allow outside forces to determine whether or not they achieve their goals are just setting themselves up to fail, maybe they’re just scared of success, because with success also comes resposibility.
Back to the subject…did Dr King let the actions of others or the lack of opportunity keep him from being successful in his goals? If he had the attitude of many people today, maybe our schools would still be segregated and blacks would be sitting at the back of the bus. I’m glad he didn’t give up as easily as many of us would.
I never said they CAN’T succeed, I’m saying it is harder for them to do so.
If most male nurses made more than female nurses, how would that make you feel?
Yes..Lets have a Rodney King day.We can call it “Pinata for a day”day.
PM, they don’t…what’s your point? Go anywhere, people aren’t paid according to the color of their skin or their sex when they’re doing the same job. Maybe it’s that people who are more educated and who have the discipline to develop marketable skills make more money than those who don’t. It has nothing to do with your race, ethnic orgin, or sex, it has to do with your motivation to succeed. Anyone can succeed if they are willing to work hard. I grew up in a working class family that didn’t value education in the least, I was even encouraged to drop out of school by my parents, because they thought it would be too hard and they were scared that I’d fail. The same for my husband, his parents thought college was a total waste of time. We never let anyone or anything hold us back or discourage us when it came to working hard and achieving our goals, and it paid off. Anyone can do it, unless of course you think you can’t…then there is no way you can.
Mary,I have mixed feelings about what you said. On the one hand I agree that you can start out poor and through determination and hard work change your life to be what you want it to be. I did that. However I have also seen people so damaged by life, lack of education, and poverty never be able to extracate themselves from poverty. I really think the key is having someone, not necessarily your family, believe in you. I know that as bad as my childhood was there were people, mostly teachers, that told me I was worthwhile.I guess that’s why I get so angry that we waste so much money on this damn war that could be used for so many other things such as preventative healthcare, education, providing a safe living environment by fighting crime, ect.I don’t however kid myself into believing that minorities have an even playing field and I have seen white men get better pay for the same job than minorities and women.
That hasn’t been my experience, I think people hold themselves back because they lack confidence, and that’s the biggest obstacle to success. Being discriminated against because I was a woman only made me more determined that no one was going to stand in my way.
Ah that compassionate conservatism…..
It has nothing to do with being compassionate or not, JR. It’s about each individual’s choice to be comfortable with the lifstyle they generally grew up with or maybe wanting something better for themselves. Staying stuck in your circumstances as an adult is still a choice, whether it’s a conscience choice or not.Why should I make feel sorry and excuses for an adult who has the intelligence and opportunity to make something of their lives, but chooses not to?