An interesting article in the online magazine Slate examines the widespread notion that some U.S. businesses must rely on illegal immigrant labor because Americans are lazy and won’t take menial jobs.
Turns out that’s not quite true. Americans work long hours, but they do avoid dirty, unskilled, low-paying jobs such as cleaning or roofing. Turns out they also avoid stressful work such as nursing that requires lots of skills and training — again, mainly because it doesn’t pay enough and there are other alternatives.
If business owners were willing to pay what the prevailing labor market demands, the author argues, more Americans would be willing to work these jobs. Do bloggers agree?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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70 Comments
Illegals who steal American’s identity is wrong.
More wrong than coming across the border, which most of us might do for economic reasons if in the same life desperate situation, serious economically depressed area for jobs or living under a bad government.
It’s employers, sub contractors of all jobs they service, hiring whatever labor they can find. Their not protecting the border and some business doesn’t care until their caught by an ICE raid.
Who isn’t lazy and doesn’t want to do some kinds of work. Stoop work isn’t same as picking a tree standing up. Stripping paint isn’t same as painting. Who works in plumbing laying pipe in new construction. Not same as working in the sewer underground with old leaky pipes and stench.
Job to collect trash isn’t same as working in the trash dump, moving the piles.
Construction is harder than pushing a piece of paper and the money isn’t the same for those efforts.
Maybe some jobs with all illegal workers should be shut down. It would cause shortages. Can’t employ legal identity citizens and pay a decent wage, doesn’t pass the “business” test. It’s not personal profit only for the business owner, its about standard of life for the worker earning low pay.
Will hire employees in the near future for my stadium’s ideas. A lot of deconstruction, handling materials, dirty, hot and tough stuff. Paperwork to push and accounting.
Who knows where the people will come from. Check their true identity and understand what life situation they have. Getting a job done is one thing, remembering its person and their life responsiblities matters.
Who has children to pay for. Older parent to take care of. How do they get around town, transportation.
Don’t come to work in a stolen car but they do.
Drug testing…
When its fruit to be picked, job pays only so much for decades, how is that American progress? Its slave labor, especially if workers have to live near farm fields in shacks. Live in bad housing near some manufacturing plant. The Grapes of Wrath process isn’t dead.
Pay for jobs has to increase, to keep up with inflation but many companies don’t do that. There is the sin of Capitalism.
I work third shift at a Wal-Mart doing floor maintenance, one night two men that were speaking Spanish off and on and appeared to be from Mexico passed me. I over heard one say to the other, ”Men I would hate to do his job!”. But yes, many jobs are important and should have a living wage paid, but I think my situation maybe un-usual as this is the highest an hour paying job I have ever had. Law Enforcement, construction and even a Jr. executive at a Computer programming school did not pay as well.
In a respect, the person that cleans your hospital room is important as the Doctor too. Not ever one can be a executive, a Doctor, or have a job that requires a college degree. There are just so much need for any one profession. But every one has a need to live and provide for their family. To put it bluntly, I do a damn good job on the floors not because I am paid to do it…. But paid well to do it! Otherwise what I do I would consider meaningless.
Every job is important and should be paid accordingly. I have to disagree about nursing not paying enough, it’s a very lucrative field with lots of opportunities. The reason that we have such a shortage is that it’s a stressful job and people have the idea that it’s all blood and guts, which is far from the truth. Many times I’ve had someone say to me that they could never do my job beause “it takes a special person”, but there are so many aspects of nursing, anyone could find a niche. If you don’t want to work in the hospital or a doctor’s office, you can teach school, work for an insurance company or a lawyer, do home health, the list is endless. It pays well and job security is good. Maybe it’s not a very glamorous job, but you can support a family with it.
I agree Mary, nursing has alot of different avenues to work rather than the direct patient care on some medical floor in the hospital. Nurse’s wages have risen quite sharply in the last few years. My husband is their boss at a nursing home and is paid less than a few of the higher up nurses in his own building. Now is that fair? But that’s a part of the health care field now.
If companies would just pay a living wage, then the rest of this social crap in the way of food stamps and etc. we all pay for presently would not be needed.
But more than the wages, I see a disturbing trend in companies not being stable as they were when I was growing up. I am 53yrs old and I don’t remember the big companies selling off like they are today. Even in the nursing home field, these nursing homes are sold left and right every few years. That brings in a sense of instability to its employees and then that translates into unhappy workers then that translates into an unhappy work place.
There are a few lazy Americans, I will say that, but those are the ones that will chronically be unemployed or underemployed.
The fact that wages are so low in this country and GETTING LOWER in itself proves that Americans aren’t lazy.
It’s supply and demand. If we had more lazy people, there’d be fewer workers and so employers would have to pay the remaining workers more.
For many decades, the RepubliCrats have colluded to keep wages low. NAFTA was a prime example–the Wal-Mart model of business being another.
Everytime former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan talked about “inflation,” he really meant “wages.”
The Fed raised interest rates every time wages started to rise.
CEO pay, healthcare, and oil could go into the stratosphere and beyond–that wasn’t “inflation” to the Fed.
But let workers’ pay go up a penny an hour and the Fed had to hit the emergancy brake on the economy.
I think by “lazy”, they really mean “won’t work for illegal immigrant wages”. Illegals and the companies who hire them have ruined the construction trade, which used to be a very viable career avenue.
Ya’ know what makes me sick?
The fact that the average wage in the area where I live is 28-30k.
A skilled day laborer, legal or otherwise, can easily make more than this……..and tax free to boot.
That’s what makes me sick.
I agree Todd about the construction business. I just wonder about the long term quality of the construction projects that are being built today. Are these cheaper workers actually trained? Perhaps that is why there is so much falling down of buildings and bridges in the past few years?
My grandfather always said – you get what you pay for. That was true 40 years ago and it is true today.
Tracy,
Illegal immigrants is why you see the disappearance of Truck Patch farmers. Those are the farmers that may have two jobs, one as a farmer and one as something else.
The Truck Patch farmer would bring his goods to town and sell them on the street corner or at the Farmer’s Market, sometimes to restaurants or grocery stores.
Good quality produce.
Now, the Truck patch farmer is undercut by the cheap labor of illegal immigrants and has virtually disappeared off the map.
This is the reward for the American that works hard.
Those damned aliens may be satisfied with menial jobs, but they have kids, and their kids won’t be! They’ll take advantage of our educational system to become entrepreneurs and eventually CEO’s, and then we’ll really be in trouble!
As I have posted before, the ONLY way to address the issue of illegal immigration is at the root – the jobs that the aliens come to America for. If there are no jobs to be had, there will be virtually no illegal immigration.
Therefore, the punishments for hiring illegal aliens should be painful to an extreme, huge fines and jail terms. If you throw a few CEO’s and business owners in the slammer for a few years, the problem will start to be solved.
Catching a few illegals trying to cross the border and deporting a few that are caught in country is just putting lipstick on the proverbial pig. Until we get tough with the people that actually hire illegal immigrants the problem will continue to grow.
Until government gets tough, all the talk is just that – talk.
The bridges and roads are usually built by the company that has the lowest bid.
On fining the employer WS Clark is something I definetely agree with you on.
The fix seems so obvious. To ignore the fix is purely political and for the purpose of those who gain economic advantage at the expense of the American worker.
Lazy is a bad and perjorative word.
I would say that since the 40’s, Americans had been comfortably secure in the knowledge that they would always be able to make a half way decent living in whatever job they ended up in.
Well the greed of corporations and the speed of the dailies on the bottom line and the need to get that bottomline ever fatter has cost us just about our entire manufacturing capacity. Most of the good manufacture jobs are long gone.
Manufacture and service jobs are where the middle class used to live.
The illegals are now sublimating the service part of the equation. It started in agriculture and meat packing. Now illegals dilute the compensation and rights of workers all through the trades. And yes quality does suffer. I see it every day.
If we lose the middle class? We lose the America we are familiar with. We go back to the days of the robber barons. Except this time there is no land out west to homestead or gold in California to search after.
On present course I do not imagine the future for most Americans is a bright one.
If Dave the business owner has to spend some time with Bubba the lifer in a 6′ x 10′ he might think twice about hiring Pedro for $3.00 an hour the next time he has an opening.
It sort of give the term “an opening” a whole new meaning.
And those companies with the lowest bids are the ones paying the lowest wages – fleetwood?
But I have to wonder if hiring illegal immigrants is really that great in the construction business. Just where does the construction business train those illegals for quality workmanship? Is it on the job training?
red-I don’t know if they are the lowest wages or not, it’s my understanding that when you bid for State or Federal work, the company with the winning bid has to pay a certain (good) wage.Somebody applied for the job, they are told what the wage will be, they either take the job or they don’t.
“it’s my understanding that when you bid for State or Federal work, the company with the winning bid has to pay a certain (good) wage.”
It is called Davis-Bacon and has been around since the thirties. It requires federal contractors and their subs to pay the PREVAILING wage, not a good wage or high wage.
It was supposed to stop contractors from putting the “low bid” onus on the workers, and to stop big employers from undercutting unions.
Fleet, that’s true on federal contracts, or where federal money is involved, if the contract is for goods or services covered by “prevailing wage” statutes.
It was supposed to stop contractors from putting the “low bid” onus on the workers, and to stop big employers from undercutting unions.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | January 22, 2007 at 11:53 AM
That’s interesting. The largest employers I know of are usually the unionized one’s.
Yes kia, but the little employers cant drag down the wages of the entire community or an entire craft. An 800lb gorilla employer can.
And, btw, it applies to ALL businesses, not just big or little.
This blogger agrees!
…and if the big ones are unionized, wouldnt it make sense to target THEM for union busting?
Woof.
I think it would take a certain amount of colusion on the part of the smaller non-unionized companies. One of my best friends is the local IBEW. He can not get work in our community, rather commutinng an hour or more to various government (usually state) projects. But it is because of a number of smaller privately owned competitors in that field, not one or another.
Ah yes the Davis Bacon act.
I believe bush tried to suspend that act in the regions damaged by hurrican Katrina I don’t know if he was successful.
“I think it would take a certain amount of colusion”
Isnt that what the price fixing and anti-trust laws are for?
Unless of course, you live in the district of a bush-appointed judge.
IIRC, he did try to suspend Davis-Bacon in those areas, but quietly reinstated it after taking a lot of fire in the media and elsewhere. Something to do, as I recall, with “illegal aliens” coming in to NOLA and taking the reconstruction jobs.
The community I live in it’s a very interesting tale.Union Electricians (highly skilled labor) can’t get work because of non-union competition.Super Wal-Mart (and Target) however can’t get in because of the strength of the Grocers Union (a monkey could run the items over a scanner.)
Not giving an opinion either way, but it is interesting to me the more skilled craft is the one that gets shut out here.
No opinion, but an observation: the “skilled” crafts are those with the higher wages, with potentially no ceiling, and the folks represented in the grocery stores have a ceiling past which the wages cannot go. Thus, the disparity.
After reading some of the comments, I have notice how some are confusing the issues.When you are defining lazy, are you sure that you are not confusing lazy with lack of loyalty?Think about it, what is your employees’ and employers’ loyalty?Have any of you notice how that has been a missing and misconstrued element in our industries since the 1960’s?What can be expected without loyalty to one and each other when it comes to work?What are the consequences?
I do not blame corporations for hiring illegals at all.
The only role of a corporation is to maximize the return it can give to its investors. CEO’s and other corporate officers have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders and company to make decisions that will further the business goals of the corporation. If a CEO chooses to hire someone at $8/hr when they could get the same amount and quality of labor for $4/hr they must chose the lower cost. If they do not, they are neglecting their duty to the company.
There is no altruism in corporate capitalism.
So the CEO’s and corporate officers choose not to have any loyalty to their employees.
Wiseman, the only duty a corporation has to its employees is to abide by the contract for employment that may exist between the parties. While we all hope for loyalty, there is no duty legally imposed on the corporation for this.
VT –You said a lot on that one “there is no duty legally imposed on the corporation for this.”The whole concept of loyalty works both ways.I am not going to be loyal to a company as an employee if they are not going to be loyal to me.
Exactly Vaughn!We must come to realize the roles, duties and consequences involved with corporations.
We have all heard about the workers that put in 15, 20, 25 years with a company only to be laid off with no second thought by the company. Corporations do not, and probably should not, have consciences. Their job is to maximize their own profit. Management of corporations have a duty only to work in the best interests of the company.
It’s all well and good to rationalize the corporations lack of loyalty to the employees by their job is to maximize profits for the shareholders (which is true). But then when the employees are not loyal to the company, then why are these same corporations wondering why?
Back in the 40’s and 50’s, employers were more in tuned with what was right for thier company and their employees. Maybe the profits were not as high as they are today, but they still made good profits and they kept their employees happy. So it seems to me that a happy medium can be struck between management and employees and still have healthy profits.
But that was in the ‘olden’ days and I know that profits come before all else in today’s world. Maybe that’s why we are seeing such a turmoil in the society as a whole? No stable jobs, with stable health insurance benefits and then stagnant wages seem to be the norm now. And for just a few more dollars in profits?
red, those were the days…
Before litigious shareholders;
Before the concept of “long-term” morphed into “next quarter”;
Before pension plans held so much stock;
I could go on, but I think the picture is clear. Am I critical of those who want the greatest value for their investment? No, I’m not; I am critical of those who feel that a bad “quarter” is doom and gloom, and go after management, etc., with no view to how a bad quarter could give rise to some very good years.
JM, our town HAS a farmer’s market every summer.Also our local democratic party chairperson has an all organic farm.
And while we’re talking food,do you folks participate in Angel Food Ministries?
I dont think that American people is lazy.What I saw is that, most of them do not want to earn a degree in life .I am sure that it is because your country is big enough to have job opportunities for everybody, and you can feed your family , does not matter what you do for life or how low your effort in life is.Aliens have to work so hard to put bread on theirs families tables with out welfare,social security services,or mony from the job departament when you are fired.Just think about my sample. Graduated nurse, bilingual English Spanish, hard worker, hard student, mother of two teenagers in the university getting just 160 dlls 48 hours a week, wont you swim the river in this situation? Do not be afraid I will not do it, I just like to give my oppinion from the yard of your neighbord.Because I always think that you American people and your country were special blessed because most of you are good heart people.
I dont think that American people is lazy.What I saw is that, most of them do not want to earn a degree in life .I am sure that it is because your country is big enough to have job opportunities for everybody, and you can feed your family , does not matter what you do for life or how low your effort in life is.Aliens have to work so hard to put bread on theirs families tables with out welfare,social security services,or mony from the job departament when you are fired.Just think about my sample. Graduated nurse, bilingual English Spanish, hard worker, hard student, mother of two teenagers in the university getting just 160 dlls 48 hours a week, wont you swim the river in this situation? Do not be afraid I will not do it, I just like to give my oppinion from the yard of your neighbord.Because I always think that you American people and your country were special blessed because most of you are good heart people.
red, I’m in agreement with you, if you couldn’t tell; the loyalty “thing” runs both ways.
Now, there isn’t the loyalty we came to expect/know in the 50s and (at least) the mid-60s. Runs both ways.
This points out the need to become educated, and to learn how to learn, when the need arises to change employment, as an example; or, to open up a business, for another.
Welcome to this blog Hortencia –It is good to have your opinions about this and you are right, most Americans are good hearted, just as well as those from another country, you have to admit everybody has a misunderstanding about what is going on with corporations and labor.It is good that you can give us your insights to this.
Just finished reading the Slate article linked in the “kick off” posting. There are many potential jobs/careers mentioned. Just one thing, rhetorically stated and asked: The author posits that the jobs he lists as being avoided would be filled if the prevailing labor market rates were offered; but, where there is a supply of labor in the market willing to perform the job(s) for less, does not that set the prevailing rate? Methinks he has himself squarely within a conundrum here.
“Wiseman, the only duty a corporation has to its employees is to abide by the contract for employment that may exist between the parties. While we all hope for loyalty, there is no duty legally imposed on the corporation for this.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | January 22, 2007 at 01:42 PM”
Not true most that hire illegal aliens are doing so not only to not pay as much per hour, but also the workman’s comp is less with illegals, because they refuse to make claims when these guys get injured. These guys don’t know that by making this “non report” and then paying the illegal cahs that they are actually saving money (HERE IS A TIP FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS EMPLOYED AND INJURED ON THE JOB) Get injured, and then have the bossman pay you cash NOT to report the injury and then SUE THE BOSS for ALL HE IS WORTH!! YOU see Workman’s comp was to give the employee protection and coverage, and with that, the employer gains civil protection with the “reported injury”. IF there is NO REPORT THERE IS NO CIVIL PROTECTION. I have no clue why these idiots think they are saving money. All it will take is for ONE ILLEGAL ALIEN TO SUE A NON REPORT OCCUPAITIONAL INJURY to workman’s comp and that is the end. It will also be an OSHA violation. That is another reason illegals are hired, they do not know and will nor complain if presented with illegal and unsafe worksites. Look at the increase in constructin death that hispanic/latino workers are suffering. 3x the growth rate for non hispanic/latino workers. WHY? They do not ask legal status, and they do not report the non report injuries.
I think in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Surley Texas, illegals have been killed on the job by accidents, and it is hushed up and the poor unfortunate is uncermoniously buried and forgotten.
That is the other tradeoff of illegal immigartion, UNSAFE WORKSITES and they are BDCOMING MORE DANGEROUS BY THE DAY!!!!!
It’s all so easy! Instead of minute men patrolling the borders, just send out teams of union organizers!
“Aliens have to work so hard to put bread on theirs families tables with out welfare,social security services,or mony from the job departament when you are fired.Just think about my sample. Graduated nurse, bilingual English Spanish, hard worker, hard student, mother of two teenagers in the university getting just 160 dlls 48 hours a week, wont you swim the river in this situation?”
That says it all, but doesnot address the fact that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO SWIM THE RIVER and enter the US without asking or illegally!!!
Why can this NOT be understood that this is unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Asbestos,I just have to know, what is your stance on sex ed and condoms in schools? Are you an ‘abstinance only’ advocate?
“There is no altruism in corporate capitalism.
Posted by: Brian | January 22, 2007 at 01:16 PM ”
How about following the LAW? Or is that asking too much?
Brian no I am all for religion OUT of the public classroom. KIds are gonna have sex, and the ‘abstinance only’ crowd are scarey and terrible to kids to tell them that. IF they want to end abotions, the first step is contraceptives. The majority of the abortions are from the “unwanted pregnancy”. Contraception will stop over 80% of the abortions. Additionally ‘abstinance only’ is not in line with Political COnservative thought. Even though the people that liberals call conservative are bible bangers, that is NOT what a conservative is. A conservative takes responsibility for ALL their issues. CUrrent crop of Repukes makes me sick. The Dems are not better and are not an alternative either. I oppose the ID/CREO refuse in the KSBOE and was happy when Connie and her ilk got thrown out on their butts.
I know, you want to pigeon hole me as “that conservative”. Well I am a GOLDWATER CONSERVATIVE! Which is nothing like Senator Moonbeam Sammy boy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“It’s all so easy! Instead of minute men patrolling the borders, just send out teams of union organizers!”That is no kidding. It would end, and I would dare the Dems to pitch a bitch about the Labor Unions. The AFL-CIO is against illegal immigration and support tough border enforcement and a retraction to NAFTA and CAFTA and the repeadl of the trade sanctions that were vacated and have them reinstituted. I AM ALL FOR THAT!!!
I am continually amazed at the moral relativism employed by people who defend those who are shooting at us.”Corporations have no altruism and it’s okay for them to hire undocumented aliens”.Corporations have the same rights and freedoms as flesh and blood humans. Look it up, it’s known as corporate personhood.Gosh I sure wish I could have rights and freedoms without RESPONSIBILITY too!And maybe the law should only be followed when it benefits me personally.After all, isn’t that what corporations do these days?And welfare! Let’s cut welfare while we’re at it, except for those poor bankrupt corporations.Corporations are sooooo misunderstood. I feel very sorry for them in their sad plight to find a few good illegals.NOT.
PS: Re “lazy Americans”…didn’t I see a “Page 376283763″ story about how the line for job openings at the Swift Co.’s Greeley Colo plant was OUT THE DOOR?I guess a whole bunch of those lazy Americans just decided to get up that morning and play a vicious prank on that poor Swift Co. by applying for all those jobs left open by illegal aliens.Bad Americans! That is so mean!
Asbestos,I had you wrong about pigeonholing you, I apologize. Good, right-minded points on sex-ed.
(With that said, I still think your comments about how to prevent illegal immigrants from coming to the US to work would never work.)
“Those damned aliens may be satisfied with menial jobs, but they have kids, and their kids won’t be!”
Jed, I’ve thought the same thing, many times, but never said it so well!
Jed. I completlly agree with you, it is not right to swim the river and go to your Country with illegal status, because it feels like you are not invited to your neighbors home and that you are eating their food, in mi situation I would never do that. But we had the opportunity in life to be graduated and we have 2 jobs, so working 14 hours a day and sundays my husband and me can feed and give education to our kids, but most of the Illegal people did not have opportunity to complete elementary school, because most of them start working since they are 12 or 14 years old. I do not justify Illegal Immigration in any way. What I think is that Companies and Bussines had been growing taking advantage of this situation, and it does not matter how you think as American citizen Illegal workers will be always a big bussines, not only in your country, because if you read some about other rich countries, you will find that they are complaining about something, but goverment is not doing nothing to fix it. It is why instead of send back all the illegals to their countries, they always fix their status.Just think about how much money the social security departament earn from them, and will not have to give it back to the aliens.Think also about taxes. Politics,and big companies are enjoying big amounts of money and give us something to discuss about without gain.I love to give my oppinions and enjoy the freedom that you guys have to blog and I respect everybodys oppinion and you will never hurt my feelings because I have the advantage to practice my English i love your language. Thank you.
vaughy T. Thank you for your nice welcome to this blog
Hortencia, while I very much welcome you, your thanks are due Wiseman, not I. The poster’s name on WE Blog appear below the post, not above.
Why do illegal immigrants come here instead of making their country better? If they want America, they should go fight for it just like we did.
But instead, they just elected the same people who perpetuate the same problems.
political_mom, there are two ways illegals could ‘fight’ to change their own countries – elections and physical fighting.
You know how jacked up politics and government is here in the US. Think about how crappy it must be in those countries where most illegal immigrants come from. If elections are allowed, there certainly would be no change.
A physical revolution would be all but impossible now. Do you think the US or any other country would fund a revolutionary movement in Mexico to overthrow the current government, regardless of the reasoning? How else would revolutionaries get money – illegal methods.
I don’t buy that Brian. If things are so bad that millions of them have to leave their own country- then they can stand up to do something about it.
They just don’t want to.
Hortencia sounds like she is trying just a bit too hard to sound like she wants to sound.FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Me so hapy to bi in this cuntry.Me work so hard many hours.Tank yo for your nicde welcom
REALLY good post from another blog.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A2420-2002Jun29¬Found=true
Wage reductions are correct with regards to such employment of illegals. The meat packing industry has reduced wages by over 50% in the last 20 years, rather than increasing.
Then you have Mexico elites currently in a long term process of Ethnic Cleansing and we are the disposal. Notice who is coming across the border, it is the native Mexican Indians , not the skanky Spanish based blue-eyed blondes etc. you see on the Univision or Telemundo soap operas. They know we are fool enough to allow the Stalinist concepts of Multi-Culti that were inserted into the Leftist Academic world starting in the 50-60’s.
The US has always been a multi-RACIAL country but not a multi-CULTURAL one. In fact no country has ever withstood the onslaught of “multi-culti” without being torn apart from within. The reason we have prospered is due to our assimilated melting pot rather than a salad mix of races. But the Politicians want to set up groups they can call “victims” and then get their votes and play them off each other. And you have your usual racist group enablers such as LULAC, MalDef etc.
Im afraid there is coming a time that the concealed carry will likely be a plus for most politicians. The citizen is rapidly congealing around some ideas that some or most politicians may not be a desirable good.
Here is another problem with the illegals coming RIGHT HERE IN WICHITA!!!!! Gang Rape by illegals of an underage girl. This group (illegals) are just trash.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16531967.htm
I think the sex was consentual, but they need to throw the book at these guys.I don’t think being illegal had anytrhing to do with it, there are plenty of white American males who would do the very same thing if given the opportuntiy.
I read in USA today where the Mexican, either naturalized citizens or illegal, are bringing cockfighting back. They believe since it is part of their culture it is their right to practice this brutality.
Uh, no. I can accept plenty of cultural differences, but just as we don’t allow female circumcision, we also don’t allow brutality like that. (well with the exception of New Mexico and Louisiana where cockfighting is LEGAL- and WHERE THE HELL ARE THOSE LEGISLATORS)!
Dogfighting, cockfighting, and bullfighting are brutal and should be outlawed. Sick f’d up individuals like to watch animals fight to the death.
If you come here, play by the rules. These kind of things are why Americans get angry.
By the way, it’s not all hispanic culture as some claim. 59% of legalized Hispanics want to see this outlawed too. That is good news.
That’s the one thing I hate about Mexico, there is cock and bull fighting everywhere. It’s hard to understand how people could be entertained by watching innocent animals being tortured to death.
Son’t forget that in Mexico that beating a woman (spousal abuse) is NOT a crime. Drinking and driving is lookd upon as no big deal either. LEGAL AGE OF consent in Mexico is 12!!! Mary it is NOT consentual in Kansas is the woman is less than 17, by law.
And ye some gang rapes have occurred and will occur with the whit population but you are a cop out. The CULTURE in the hispanic and Lastino from central and south america is very poor to women. GANG RAPE is more likely to have latino or hispanic participants, here they are usually illegal aliens. It is part of their cutlure.
I get tired of the whole world pointing at the cultural problems of Americans, however we shine a light on their cultural brutatality, and we are somehow miguided. That is a double standard, just like the muslims and their femal circumsision. Brutal.
Women do not count for much in the Islamic or Latino and hispanic culture.
importing these illegal criminal aliens, also is a step backward culturally speaking.
Hope you like cock fights, as if we do not stop illegal immigration, it will soon be coming to a neighbor hood near you. Maybe Pit bull fights as well.
Maybe as the prisons fill up with illegals, we can bring back the Gladiator fights of old times. Wouldn’t that be great? Just think of the money that it would bring in.
so every one say we as americans dont wan to do dirty jobs and dont want to go to school to get a degree. i for one went to collage and am working to get my rn. but a lot of place i go ask if i can speak spanish. i say no and well that is it. i also raised my kids by doing other peoples house but no to get back into cleaning house i get asked the same thing can u speak spanish.well no then that is it i dont get that job. so we are not lazy we are being beat out of jobs for being born here.and as for some saying that they work realy hard to put food on there tables go ask them if they are working anf the wife or girl freind is geting welfare.all the one i know of are getiing best of both world.and relay nice cars and trucks that my husband i finaly got a good truck after being together working hard but it only took 21 yrs. but illgals come over and get every thing they want.
On September 27, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced that the DREAM Act would not be considered as an amendment to H.R. 1585, the Defense Department authorization bill for fiscal year 2008.
The Washington Times reports, however, that Reid will push for passage of the DREAM Act, which would grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, by different means (possibly in its stand-alone form [S. 774, sponsored by Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin {D-Ill.}]) before the Senate adjourns for the year (i.e., on or about November 16).
Reid’s concession on the DoD authorization bill may doom other immigration-related amendments to the defense bill as well.
Please fax your senators: We have stopped the DREAM Act for now, but there is already a push to pass it as a stand-alone bill.
Senator Sam Brownback contact information- Taken from his web site
Office location Phone # Fax #Washington DC office 1-202-224-6521 1-202-228-1265Overland Park Office 1-913-492-6378 1-913-492-7253Topeka office 1-785-233-2503 1-785-233-2616Garden City office 1-620-231-6040 1-620-231-6347Wichita office 1-316-264-8066 1-316-264-9078
Senator Pat Roberts Contact Information Taken from his web site
Washington DC office 1-202-224-4774 1-202-224-3514Overland Park Office 1-913-451-9343 1-913-451-9446Topeka office 1-785-295-2745 1-785-235-3665Wichita office 1-316-263-0416 1-316-263-0273Dodge City Office 1-620-227-2244 1-620-227-2264
Representative Todd Tiahrt, Contact information taken from his web site
Wichita OfficeAddress: 155 North Market St.Suite 400Wichita, KS 67202Phone: 316.262.8992Fax: 316.262.5309Washington OfficeAddress: 2441 Rayburn BuildingWashington, DC 20515Phone: 202.225.6216Fax: 202.225.3489