It was bad enough that the FBI has been using "national security letters" to obtain Americans’ banking and credit records. Now the New York Times reports that the Pentagon and CIA have also been using the letters. Besides the serious civil liberty concerns about the government looking at personal information without obtaining a warrant or subpoena, there is a jurisdictional problem: Domestic espionage is supposed to be done by the FBI, not by the Pentagon and the CIA.
Vice President Dick Cheney told "Fox News Sunday" that the Pentagon and CIA do have authority to obtain personal records without a court order. But since 2001, Congress has rejected several attempts by the Pentagon and CIA for such authority, the Times reported.
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes, D-Texas, promised to examine the practice. "Any expansion by the department into intelligence collection, particularly on U.S. soil, is something our committee will thoroughly review," he said.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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56 Comments
Little by little we’re losing all of our freedom. Just like putting the frog in the pot of cold water and gradually turning up the heat, by the time he figures out what’s going on it’s too late.
What freedom have you lost Slick?
The sister don’t like what the big brother is doing.Domestic spying is no big deal, your next door neighbors do it to you all the time.
“Hey… Looks like the Brownlees are having a cook-out in the backyard in the middle of all this cold weather!”
Interesting photo the NY Times had on this story, a former Army Captain (Yee) who happened to be the Chaplain of Muslim faith at Guantanmo.
Tell me Phillip Brownlee, what part of the sign with the huge lettering at the entrance to Guantanamo did Captain Yee not understand? You know, the search and seizure part?
Did he miss the briefing when he took the oath to become a military officer about willingly submitting to the Uniform Code of Military Justice which includes instant search and/or seizures at any time or anyplace?
I too was subject to investigations while I was in the military and was investigated and there were even plants of special agent spies where I worked. But the investigation wasn’t about me, it was about catching leaks of security and who was doing it. It’s part of doing business as a military person. We are afterall in the chain of custody for security. One link fails and a catastrophe can happen.
Being as the Patriot Act was designed to spy on terrorists, this is another story of paranoia by the NY Times to spread false information.
JM,Come back and say the same thing when Hillary is President.
The 4th amendment doesn’t mean anything anymore???
Move along children, nothing to see here.
delores,
I will come back whoever is President and say the same thing or at least say what is relevant to the matter at hand.
Freedom of speech thing as I recall.
I know that the First Amendment has been shredded. You only have to speak out against Bush and Iraq and you’re called anti-American or traitor.
yeah right, that’s why the NY Times printed the story…their first amendment rights have been shredded.
or your ability to write here has been compromised because your first amendment writes have been shredded.
Yeah okay…(rolls eyes)
JM,
When the President, Vice-President and people on the right call their critics un-American or traitors to try to stiflethem and others from coming out and speaking against their policies, that is called attacking people’s free speech.
Delores,”When the President, Vice-President and people on the right call their critics un-American or traitors to try to stifle them and others from coming out and speaking against their policies, that is called attacking people’s free speech.”
No, they call that opinion.
“to try to stifle them” are the key words.
They can’t stifle.
And the President and Vice-President also have first amendment rights to say what’s on their mind. :)
JM,Serving in the military is a whole ‘nuther story. What do you think G I stands for? Government issue. As such, you belong to the military, lock stock and barrel. To equate that with domestic spying by the pentagon and the CIA is ludicris.
There are laws in place to prevent just what Bush and his cronies are doing. It is my hope people with the huevos to do so will stop this nonsense.
The terrorists are laughing in their caves over what Bush is doing to this country. They couldn’t be happier than to see us under the government microscope.
That investigating terrorist cells is a given. That all the secret alphabet mix, Cia. FBI, etc, need to look into the problem is a given, BUT we have drawn up rules for each and domestic spying by the CIA is a no-no for obvious reasons.
Look at the out of control bashing by the republicans of Hillary when the FBI files came out over the travelgate affair. This has been driven to partisan levels, and it should never have come to this.
Bush is a tyrant, has a definite ego problem and is beholden to the special interests who are making a killing, literaly, off this illegal war. Come on 2008.
JM Walker,
Totally agree with you about the Hillary and the FBI files etc. It’s always different when the shoe is on the other foot.Know one knows who is looking at the files the CIA is gathering on bank accounts and cards.I just think “Nixon” and cringe.
Here we go again. Isn’t this why we have a Supreme Court?If this spying deal was all that, why hasn’t this been brought before the court? Where is the ACLU? Why aren’t the ones who have been affected on the front page?
I’m sure the ACLU will get on this along with congress. This just came out, it takes time.
Thanks monitor for removing a post that someone signed my name to.
No, one man was arrested for assault for telling Cheney his opinion.
progressive.org/mag_mc100406
We have no rights under Bush & Co. That constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper to him.
This needs to be taken care of right now, impeach the whole lot of them.
America is supposed to stand for Freedom and Liberty. Those of you who are so willing to turn over your constitution along with Bush, YOU are my enemy. YOU are a bigger threat to me than any terrorist with a bomb.
And I sure as hell won’t sit quietly by and allow you to do it.
How many of you know what the “Know your customer Act” was? How many of you screamed about it, and it’s subsequent incarnations?
Just curious.
A little off topic, but, this is one of the main reasons I’d like to see the IRS go away and be replaced by a National Retail Sales tax. It would then be no business of the govenments how much money you make. There would be much less justification for laws that allow the Govt. to snoop in our finances.
When this administration has discovered that it didn’t have the authority to do whatever it wanted, it has simply assumed that authority, and congress and the courts have for the most part rubberstamped it. We’ve got a new congress now; lets see if they have any balls!
I bet you do wish that Heckler. I bet you do.
Heckler,Off the cuff, that sounds like a great idea. The more you buy, the more tax you pay. So those so pissed off at the rich for being rich wouldn’t have a bitch anymore. They buy more, they pay more. Makes sense to me, off the shelf anyway.
p_mom
The reason I asked the question about “know your customer” is because a lot of folks on this blog probably have no idea how easy it is for the Feds to look at our financial records.
Yet some of these same people, who don’t have a clue, will scream about using financial records to track down terrorists.
I’d be in convulsions of laughter if I were’nt puking in disgust.
Political Mom,
It appears to me as if you are exercising your rights just fine.
The whole lot of you have no real examples of how any of your rights are being taken away.
JM Walker,
The terrorists are laughing, not at what we are doing to stop them, but at the people like you who are crying at every measure enacted to stop them.
“We have no rights under Bush & Co. That constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper to him.”By pmom”YOU are a bigger threat to me than any terrorist with a bomb.”Also, by pmom
Your credibility suffers when you and others like you rant this way. Wipe the foam off your chin.
In response to fltwds post at 7:32 am
ACLU files lawsuit against Patriot ActFrom Kevin BohnCNN Washington BureauWednesday, July 30, 2003 Posted: 6:17 PM EDT (2217 GMT)WASHINGTON (CNN) — The American Civil Liberties Union Wednesday filed the first lawsuit against the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law passed after the attacks of September 11, 2001.
The lawsuit claims one section of the law authorizing searches of records, including those of businesses, libraries and bookstores, is unconstitutional.
As usual the Conservatives are sticking up for Big Government
Look for yourselves boys and girls.Just google:
Results 1 – 10 of about 1,150,000 for patriot act lawsuits. (0.08 seconds
Dingus
No, we’re sticking up for giving terrorists the shaft from every possible direction.
I’d like one example from someone who has had his/her constitutional rights violated by the Patriot Act.
So, morg-How is that lawsuit coming from3 and a half years ago?
you tell me fleet
I would guess it was thrown out.
The Conservatives sticking up for the government…
There’s a multi-edged sword there as well as some nicely flavored peppermint sticks. :)
Perhaps some people who are comfortable with the US and its government regardless who is currently in charge or was in charge in the past, don’t feel any paranoia about being spyed upon.
Why? Because I imagine they have no interest in me, although I have had a Top Secret clearance and would be susceptible to foreign influence.
Walking around paranoid all the time must be awful?
I mean do liberals carry listening device bug detectors with them? Do they use super-encrypted phones and have encrypted data on their computers? Do they get their mail delivered by special “in house” couriers?
Inquiring minds want to know. lol
http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/facts.html#abuses
Myth: “Under the Patriot Act, I’m very confident in saying there have been no abuses found.”Reality: The Patriot Act has been abused.
Ask Brandon Mayfield who was wrongly accused by the government of involvement in the Madrid bombing as a result of evidence, including mistaken fingerprint identification, that fell apart after the FBI re-examined its case following its arrest and detention on Mayfield on a material witness warrant.
Ask Tariq Ramadan, who is regarded as a leading moderate Muslim intellectuals, and had his visa revoked to teach at the University of Notre Dame under Section 411 of the Patriot Act, which permits the government to exclude non-citizens from the country if in the government’s view they have “used [their] position of prominence to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or to persuade others to support terrorist activity.” Read more >>—–
The IRS can look at my financial records at the drop of a hat, don’t even need a good reason.
The FBI can do it almost as easily.
Do I like it, no, not even a little.
But don’t expect me to cry a river if the Feds want to use “National Security Letters” to get financial records in an investigation in suspected terrorists. They’re going to more trouble to do that than they need to go through to check MY records.
If they’re spying on me, they’re liable to see some things that just might embarass them.
Didn’t J. Edgar Hoover keep confidential files on all the undesirables that he deemed to be so? And wasn’t the public outraged when they found this fact out? And the public was really outraged when the real story of the real J. Edgar Hoover came to light after his death – now that was a nutjob.
But I want each and every Republican Conservative to remember that every time they rubber stamp anything giving George W. Bush any and all authority he wanted, the same authority will be granted to the next president – be that Democrat or Republican.
You may not like what is coming down the pike in 2 years, so if were you Republicans I would want to make sure that I have not given too much authority away to one leader named George W. Bush.
People need to watch the video at this address. It’s called America, Freedom to Fascism. Very interesting whether you agree with it or not.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198
Cs,If a Dem has the balls to go after terrorists, then feel free to tap my phone or pull my financial records.
Should I be doing something I’m not supposed to be, but NOT related to terrorism, I’m not so sure they can use that evidence against me.
Any legal beagles know about this?
Sol, off the top of my head, the answer is “maybe”. I’d need to read the relevant statutes, etc. There is an implication in the link in the starter that such evidence has been discovered, but the agency involved has not forwarded it nor followed it up.
It seems to me that the 4th ammendment is pretty clear about having a warrant to do a search.A government that has access to snoop almost certainly will abuse it sooner or later.
My concern here is that these files will be available to ‘people’ in the offices; not all of whom might be as honest or as accurate as we would like. When you consider the current problems we have with inaccurate information in these files I wonder what happens when they are taken further.
I am not that naive to think that government cannot get into any records on me that possibly exist today. For a prime example, look at the recent medical records from abortion clinics that was given to Kline and somehow they managed to be the topic of Bill O’Reilly’s national show that evening and with Phill Kline as the special guest speaker.
That fiasco right there should make everyone aware that there are people in the government who are more than willing to compromise whatever rules are put into play for the secrecy of any records.
But do I think we are not already on that slippery slope. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans will never know what secrets the government has hidden.
USA down the tubes while most sit on there ass and do nothing or say nothing. Pop a few of them and get their attention!
Hey I call this an ok thing.
Now that dems have the Congress and soon the White House? Let’s get the IRS looking at where all that church money goes! Maybe time to think about laying some taxes there.
For those who are unconcered about goverment snooping:
Try signing all you emails with the phrase “George Bush is the bomb!”
Start your timer and see how long before someone starts taking a look at you.
You better believe that the government is roaming the internet. Here’s an example of saying something that will bring out the Secret Service.
http://metimes.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20061014-021209-6988r
Jurors are being excluded from the libby trial if they have a low opinion of the administration. Talk about stacking a jury, about as bad as Delay or worse, wanting a republican judge.
I really hope that “they” aren’t reading my e-mails or listening in on my phone; I’d hate to be responsible for some poor CIA analyst losing his mind!
{Sighs wearily. . .}
Defenders of this administration. . . can you not, at long last, see the pattern?
“Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.”
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=277&page=438
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/05/nsa_isnt_just_m.html#comment-17202951
The innocent have nothing to fear. . .well, maybe deportation:
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8721/8721.intro.html
That’s what I could come up with in 5 minutes, folks.
Think about it.
As long it is Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, Maria Cantwell, Jim McDermott, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton, Charles Rangel, ETC. I don’t have a problem, after all they are avowed traitors.
Just wait, Cassel, in a year or so, the Democrats will control the House, Senate and the Presidency and then we can spy on you….
JR,
Oh no, not that JR.
You might actually see that “all that” church money goes to charitable causes and running the church.
09052007
GOOD NEWS!
The entire of system,
Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God will call the past to account.
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.
Amen.
WORLD NEWS!
Expression morale feeling,
Many countries exchange experiences, exchange of views, exchange of ideas, like day has change into night, but there’s a difference that is meaning, not in oneself right sense. It’s honest and sincere only!
Mean while that the evil ideas spread everywhere, the evil views spread over the entire nation. The result of it the rule of law of the jungle then we focus out attention on the exertion of power such as the power of speech, nation’s dialogue, breaking news and is pertaining logic. That power has contaminated the archipelago’s population and resulted condition of abuse and impacts, in focus on the polity and phenomenon.
National phenomena that is an event and goods in 1945/1968 and in 1998 then deep impact, thus, all about the evil government and the followers of, where, in the first time and the second time, both of, they have made nation’s debt then do good for save our nation and its justification.
Disclosure of the evil government program:
Begin of processDo good for make it nation’s debtDo exertion of powerBegin of progressIts asset that is public right thenIts liability that is welfare state thenIts capital that is public opinion thenIts revenue that is the world duty, thenIts expense that is propaganda, thenIts sustain then public imageEnd of progressDo return on investment, provide with depressed class actions and is an Object class religious!End of processReturn to impeachment