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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Jan. 22, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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265 Comments
Great story and photos about Bald Eagles living along the Arkansas River right here in Wichita. Apparently they visit here from December to February and are “not particularly afraid of people.” But they look ferocious enough that people are probably afraid of them.
On my way to Wichita right now to counterprotest today on Roe V Wade day!
You go mom!Hey, I see where balls didn’t have the balls to show up.I’ll have to change his moniker toWHIMPY
He’s been in jail for 10 weeks, but Kent Hovind hasn’t learned the first lesson of being a criminal: “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”
Translation: You got caught, so quit whining and take your punishment like a man.
Instead, Hovind is sniffling in court, dabbing tears from his eyes and comparing himself to Jesus and Job. He urges the judge to let him go home rather than do serious time for bilking the government.
This same government guarantees “Dr. Dino” freedom of religion and freedom of speech so he can denounce the theory of evolution, promote “creation science” — an oxymoron to many — and operate Dinosaur Adventure Land and Creation Science Evangelism.
In court, Hovind offers the judge a deal: Release him and he will stop suing the government.Hovind blames his problems on lawyers, another pastor, the Internal Revenue Service. His own sins are minor.”I forgot to dot some i’s and cross some t’s,” he said.Hovind’s talk sounds good to the courtroom full of sympathetic spectators. It has the ring of “truthiness,” Stephen Colbert’s term for stuff that sounds good but isn’t factual.Unfortunately, few attended the trial, which showed Hovind’s extensive maneuvering with a claim that he was exempt from income tax because he’s a minister working for God.Today being Sunday, ask your minister or priest if he or she pays income taxes, just as the government requires.You would think that Hovind, who claims a doctorate, would have figured this out.But he’s been fighting the IRS for years, with passive-aggressive behavior and alternately macho and whiny voices.He talked tough in telephone conversations from Escambia County Jail, where he was held while waiting to be sentenced Friday on 58 charges.Although phones include warnings that conversations are recorded, he didn’t mince words as he ran up eight hours of calls per week.He vowed to “make life miserable” for the IRS, keep suing the government and promote his cockamamie theory that he’s tax-exempt.
The one to feel sorry for is his wife, Jo, who is to be sentenced March 1.”I’m sorry, but I don’t get it,” she says on tape as her husband of 34 years rants about taxes. She just wants to find an accountant who can help them make peace with the IRS and enjoy life with their children and grandchildren.Judge Casey Rodgers listened to the tapes and then to Hovind, who didn’t help his case by refusing to accept any responsibility for the mess he has made. Instead, his words just aggravated his legal situation.”You dishonor your fellow Americans” by dodging a fair share of taxes, Rodgers said.She sentenced him to 10 years in prison.Even then he resisted reality.”I sure would like to go home,” he told Rodgers.She nodded and said, “I have to follow the law.”
If only Kent Hovind followed the law, too.
Protesting and counterprotesting is wasted effort, instead of standing in the snow, protesting or rejoicing Roe V Wade, why don’t they use their energy for something positive like helping to reduce the incident of unwanted pregnacies?
And adopting those in need.
test
Wow.. everyone is so agreeable today.. I agree Mary AND TRACY.
I have no authority to challenge others because I have not adopted (yet). But for those who have adoption in their heart check out this Christian website.
http://www.ShaohannahsHope.org
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Yes Tracy, the prochoice side too.I remember someone said to Mia Farrow, “I don’t know how you can adopt all these handicapped kids”, and she replied, “I don’t know how you can’t”.
I have to tell you this. My wife’s son (I will never call him my son or step son again) got his girlfriend pregnant. My wife and I went out and bought little baby caps to keep his head warm and those adorable tiny little socks. I also bought them a copy of what to expect when you are expecting.
Unbeknownst to me, they were still considering abortion. I called the girl’s mom. She said she was ‘pro-life’ but her main concern was ‘losing her daughter’ should she push too hard one way or the other. I set up a sit down with both sets of parents for Sat morning.
I did some research online and found out just what a 12-13 week fetus looks like. Perfect little toes on formed little legs. Same with tiny little fingers. My grandson already had a face.
I had a ‘dinner’ thing at my mother-in-law’s new house Friday evening. My wife implored me not to talk to the kids that evening, but to wait for Saturday. Unfortunately I agreed.
Early Saturday morning the girl’s mother picked them up. I asked my wife where they were going. She told me they were going to ‘talk to a doctor’. I freaked out and started calling every number I could think of to try and get a hold of them. My wife’s son called back when it was already too late.
Saturday, 20 January 2007 is now my grandson’s birthday and the day he died. I don’t even have a grave site to go to to mourn his loss or apologize to him for not doing more to stop his murder. He was put in a trash bag.
Let me say that again. My grandson is in a trash bag.
Y’all do a little surfing and take a look at what they prefer to call ‘the product of conception’ or ’tissue, like a blood clot’. At 12 weeks, it is a little human. Proportioned, with all his little digits.
I offered to adopt the baby should they not want to raise him. I offered to help them adopt out the baby should they not choose to raise him. I offered to let them live with us and help raise the baby should they choose to keep him.
Do you know what her response was??? “I can’t let my baby be raised by someone else.” So instead she had my grandson ripped apart limb by limb from her body. She murdered my grandson in the most horrific way possible.
This 16 year old little girl can not vote or sign a contract, but she sure can murder and innocent child.
Ain’t America grand?
Sol,I wish I understood the pain you’re feeling. I’m very sorry to hear this news.
Sol: You have my sympathy. You did everything you could. A tragedy that didn’t have to happen.
However, it takes a microscope to see the blastocysts that some folks are calling babies.Hooray for the dems in sponsoring a bill that will allow these (formerly disposed of) microscopic miracles to be used for ESC research.
And yes America is grand.
Sol, I’m so sorry. I hope in time your pain will ease.
Sol – I cannot truly feel the magnitude of your loss but can only try to empathize with you. My grandkids are a joy in my life. I agree with outlander, you did everything you could. I can only wish that the outcome had been different. If there were more parents like you I think the incidence would decline.
Amen to you as well Mary; I wonder how different things might be if all that energy expended protesting (both sides) was spent on prevention, education, adoption, etc.
Sol, I don’t mean to sound uncaring.My sympathy, and hopes for reconciliation with all parties involved.
Ahem…It had everything to do with the weather and poor communication from Pee, and nothing at all to do with balls.
Okay Balls.We’ll buy it.No wimpy for you today!
Question:How does the Iraqi army find soldiers?Is it all-volunteer?
Ok, first rule of selling: when the customer says “I’ll buy” – Stop selling.
However, further proof: I gave her my cell # – she’s probably selling that info on ebay right about now {heh} – with an offer to meet that evening or the next day.
No response. *shrug*
Hey Pee Mom, it’s not Roe V. Wade day anymore.
The person that was originally for abortion in the Roe V. Wade Case is now against abortion because she finds it immoral.
There you go, the cornerstone for abortion advocates has turner her back on you.
And guess what? It’s her constitutional right to do so. ;)
And her real name wasn’t Roe.
The law was established thirty years ago.
As the CONs love to say, “get over it.”
I’d like to use Open Thread to make some comments relating to “It’s the intelligence, stupid”.
VT mentioned a daughter attending a college in Maine, which I seem to recall from a post he made some months back was Colby, but my memory isn’t what it used to be. (I recall, with greater confidence, the other daughter attending Carleton in Minnesota.)
The SAT has been substantially redesigned to represent more a high-school subject matter-knowledge test, and less an aptitude (IQ) test, than in the past. It is worth noting that universities that offer “gifted-student” summer enrichment/acceleration academic courses to middle school and high school students use ACT (which was created in the 1950’s to test high-school knowledge, in protest to the IQ-measuring SAT’s “discrimination” against rural-population Southern and inland states’ students) and SAT scores to primarily evaluate applicants.
The ACT credits “correct” pure guesses. It does not subtract any points for “incorrect” answers. Statistically, if you give 1000 elementary, middle or high school students, or 1000 college graduates, only answer sheets with no test booklets, and instructions to fill in one answer-sheet oval per question, they’ll average a score of 10, which is just under half the college-bound average score of 21.5.
The SAT subtracts a quarter point for incorrect answers. Oddly, a minimum score of 200 is issued: if you give the test to geniuses with instructions to choose wrong choices for all questions, and give another group instructions to leave all answer circles blank, they will both get 200.
Interestingly, both tests contain answer choices that reflect partial, but not full understanding. No credit is given for such, even though, in sound tests, and homework assignments, partial credit is, appropriately given. So the ACT gives all-or-none credit. The SAT gives full credit or quantitative demerit.
These are both CORRUPT. Who among GOOD TEACHERS here doesn’t give CREDIT for students’ demonstrations of significant, albeit imperfect understanding? Who would not credit this? That’s heuristic ignorance. To issue a demerit, as the SAT does, represents something worse than ignorance, it is diabolical meanness.
That both tests are severely time-limited is also bogus. The SAT and ACT “Math” tests are actually, substantially, rapid-reading-skills tests. The SAT is more egregious in this, because it uses “trick wording” on some problems. Anyone who has deeply studied mathematics knows that this is a SLOW READING discipline. It is a “Read this once, read it over again, read it three times, sleep on it, and ‘Eureka’ will occur,” subject. So, to properly TEST mathematics knowledge, you have to give examinees TIME. The ACT and SAT do not provide this.
Apophis issued a challenge to me: tutor struggling mass-education-format kids after school. I didn’t give him an on-target response. My gift is the ability to pass on lessons to teaching-ability-gifted children to enable them to become teachers so that they can impart to others knowledge. The best teaching, to me, is one-on-one dialogue. I love dispensing my knowledge. I also love learning things I didn’t know from my students.
FYI, got an email from Sol.He’s having trouble commenting.Dave, if you’re reading,check your email.Maybe you can help?
Sol – for what it’s worth my email is live.
Sol – there is not much that can be said except you have my greatest sympathy. You did all you could and obviously went the extra mile. Perhaps there would actually be fewer abortions if there were more like you that offered to care for the child.
It has to be tough for you and your wife. Without implying anything, perhaps some counseling is in order. It can’t hurt and perhaps can help you get passed your grief in time.
I have two grandchildren. The only reason that I live here is so that I get see them on a regular basis. They are the embodiment of the future for me.
Thank you for sharing you story today. That took courage. Please consider visiting your minister or a counselor to help you through this.
Regardless, my prayers will be with you and your family today.
Sorry folks I am as compassionate as anyone and more so.
But sol brings us this “personal” story on this particular day?
Sorry, I aint buying.
Just read your comments Sol. I can’t tell you how deeply I was moved.
Regardless of anyone’s belief on abortion, they can’t deny a Grandfather’s love for an unborn grandchild.
My thoughts and prayers for you Sol.
One day at a time brother.
heartlander,
Interesting comments on the SAT and ACT. Can’t say I’ve ever heard that perspective before in those words.
J R,That was a pure cold-blooded and hateful comment you made about Sol. You should apologize to him.
Perhaps this day of all days it what evokes memory of a grandchild lost forever.
Let me say, I have personal experience in this issue. I had a girlfriend that got pregnant and then had an abortion and told me about all of it after-the-fact. I was shocked. I had no intention of marrying this woman, and she new it. And I think that was a factor in her decision, but we never really talked about it. And we broke up not long after.It is something I have never mentioned to friends or family, but I have to support her decision.
I see abortion as a woman’s right, but I also see it as irresponsible. I feel guilt for not being responsible enough to use protection. I feel guilt for not being at a place in my life where I could get married, start a family, and support it. But in the end, I believe it was the right choice.
But it gets better. Your son NEEDS your support right now. You will lose him and your wife will lose him if you don’t forgive him. If you want grandkids, and you will probably have plenty in a decade or so, you need to forgive and forget.
And it gets better :)
I had the same thought JR. I’m gonna cruise around the internet and see if that meme appears elsewhere.
In the event that I am wrong, I am sorry for whatever pain sollie is feeling. IF the story is true, it is sad, but the parents have the final say.
However, I too find the story a little too conveeenient on this particular day. He is antichoice EVERY day.
ksfarmgrrl,
You just don’t get it do you?
Taking an opportunity to be mean for the sake of talking points is beyond the pale.
This is really sad situation when there are people in America that think like ksfarmgrll and J R.
Hate speech for the sake of talking points.
JM I certainly need no advice from YOU on how to behave.
Thank you kfg.
Hey, I don’t mean to sound heartless.
And I am SURE there are stories that are true all the time like the one sol brings us. I have no doubt of it.If this is truly sols story, then it is very sad. Any person who has lived through such a thing has my sympathies.But it just strikes me as more like something that was read somewhere. I did not think sol was much older than me and did not have children old enough to be having grandchildren.
Again apologioes if I have misinterpreted.
Their skeptics… get over it.Skepticism is a healthy, rational way to live your life.So who cares if they don’t believe everything they read on the internet. Do you believe everything you read on the internet?I personally believe this to be true, because I find it hard to believe someone would perpetrate a fraud like that.
J R
Think about this logically. How many abortions are there per year?
And of those abortions how many of those unborn babies might have potential grandparents?
Why is that hard to believe?
I mean look at the number of abortions done in Kansas every year.
How many broken-hearted Grandparents do you think there are out there who will never get the chance to see their grandchild or give their love?
I have to take sol at face value on this and can only attempt to understand. Being a grandparent I know how wonderful grandchildren are.
That said, I will support what Andrew said – if you can reconnect to your son perhaps there can be a tomorrow.
Sol, God bless …
heartlander, your memory is correct, at least in part. The younger attends Colby, in Maine; the elder attended Carleton, in Minnesota from which she graduated, and now is in graduate school at the University of Minnesota.
Regarding your comments on the ACT and SAT; I agree with the speed reading thought on the Math section; that is what it is, no question.
I have just read through the entire blog and I too feel sympathy for Sol’s tragic loss. But it got me to thinking. Was the girl’s mother, who is pro-choice, the driving force behind this outcome? And I have to wonder if there could not be some sort of regulations put in place in the abortion office as to talk to any and all family members before an abortion is performed. I’m sure that not every case is like this one, but I’m sure there are alot of fathers and parents who are not even aware of when an abortion is being performed or even contemplated.
I just think that if there is any chance of a family member wanting to keep the baby and raise it, then the abortion provider should provide some sort of process to investigate what is really the best for the baby.
Yes, know I am expecting alot and I know that this way would be giving validity to the baby as a ‘person’. But I just think in Sol’s case – there was a better solution than the final outcome. I am in the middle when it comes to abortion rights. I think there are some rare cases where abortions may be the best course, but only after every avenue is explored. I think that is where most Americans are – somewhere in the middle. But it takes a story like Sol’s to make it more personal and for maybe seeing the other side of the abortion issue.
red, the consitutional right to privacy as evidenced by the right to an abortion under Roe is personal to the mother. That’s why no one else has a say in the decision. Right or wrong, that’s the current status of the law on this topic.
“But I just think in Sol’s case – there was a better solution than the final outcome.”
Better outcome for whom? Sollie?
Sollie isnt pregnant. The mother is. She has the final say according to the law of the land.
So.. why is she being painted as the bad guy? And I understand sollie’s son supported the decision.
Seems to me that the two people most closely associated with the pregnancy agreed, and they had the final say.
I’m sorry that sollie didnt agree, but he has no legal standing to interfere. HE does not control that woman’s womb. SHE does. And her partner agrees.
High five VT!!!
I’m sorry, I was wrong.
(See how easy that is JM?)
It was sollie’s WIFE’s son!! And now sollie has disowned him?
Sollie isnt even the biological father of the baby’s father. He has no more standing than troyboy newman.
Like I said, sollie was already adamantly antichoice, and has been since the first day he posted here.
I dont think this story prompted any kind of “conversion”. He was already a zealot.
As I understand, the girl was 16yrs old and how old was Sollie’s stepson? Is it really what we want to allow two teenagers to make one of the most difficult decisions by themselves? I am just advocating a different approach to the abortion issue – that’s all. I am not advocating taking away anyone’s rights.
Abortion is not a black and white issue. And this issue will not be resolved by both sides digging in their heels because they are ‘right’.
I wonder where Mary and Brenda are this morning. I believe they would have wise counsel to share on this topic.
Uh, I think the 16 year old girl went to the right place.
Her mother.
Arent you right wingers the ones who are always advocating parental notification?
She went to her mother, and the mother supported her decision.
Anyone want to guess, given sollie’s obsession with making abortion illegal, why his wife’s son DIDNT go to sollie for advise or support?
It would be interesting to know the son’s age and if he went to his MOTHER for advise or support.
Sounds to me like the PARENTS did not make the decision alone, but went to the girl’s family, and they supported the decision.
Again, that is the law. Even SOUTH DAKOTA voters wouldnt change it to give people like sollie control of a woman’s womb.
ksfarmgrll,
Thanks for the apology, you should have just left it at that.
To “yeah but” after you make an apology says a lot about your sincerity in making said apology.
Well I”m back. Sol, I’m sorry that you felt so strongly, but the decision was the woman’s who would have had to raise the child. You have no idea what a struggle that probably was for her, and I’m sure she gave it more consideration, and didn’t need you trying to make a hard decision harder.
The antis today were really kookie- speaking in tongues and chanting, pushing a pro-choice supporter with a cane, on their knees in the snow yelling ‘don’t kill your baby’. One of the ladies that came into the clinic had tears in her eyes, the decision was obviously hard for her, and she didn’t need all those people screaming at her.
Then I got stared down by some guy who just stood right in front of us- staring. One gal was asking him ‘Do you want to go on a date or something? What do you like to do”.
Oh and testicles, yes I do have your phone number and your real name. Don’t sit here and try to say I gave you poor communication you ass, I told you I”d stay awake and wait for you to email me when you got to the hotel so your son could get changed and give me time to get to Salina, and you went to the damn mall instead so I don’t want to hear your drivel.
“And this issue will not be resolved by both sides”
The “issue” has been resolved. By the Supreme Court, no less. There is no resolution required. Just a disgruntled minority wanting to be the tail that wags the dog.
Poll after poll shows a MAJORITY of Americans want abortion to be safe and legal. Some want to restrict it as much as possible, others support a woman’s right to choice.
But the issue HAS BEEN resolved. Some people just dont like it.
Oh and Today IS the anniversary of Roe. Who said it wasn’t?
JM, real slow now. I apologized for having one of my facts wrong. Admiting to being wrong about one fact does not negate the entire post.
Geez, with all that education, you must have missed all the logic courses.
And even when your “facts” are PROVEN wrong, you still dont apologize. Now I see why. You think admitting to having something wrong means your whole position is wrong.
Black and white thinking will get you, well, JM’s rants, apparantly.
Then I got stared down by some guy who just stood right in front of us- staring. One gal was asking him ‘Do you want to go on a date or something? What do you like to do”.Posted by: political_mom | January 22, 2007 at 11:46 AM
You sure that wasn’t nutz? lol ;)
LOL I thought about that KIA, how funny!
ksfarmgrrl,
What facts have I written are proven wrong?
Categorizing facts as wrong…Isn’t that an oxymoron?
Let me repeat the phrase for you once again.
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.”"Democratic Senator Daniel Moynihan of New York
You can tell that folks are going back and reading sols post again.
I did as well.
And I have acknowledged that I am sure there are true stories such as this one all the time. And if this did happen to sol then I am truly synpathetic for how he feels. But he should absolve himself of any sort of blame as he clearly did all that was in his ability to do in keeping with his feelings.
But I too have questions….It seems cruel to ask them but we learn by exploring.
Why no mention of this before? Clearly the pregnancy was known about before Friday.
The age of the father is not given. The mother was 16. The couple was not married. The father SEEMS to be in agreement with the decision. The mother and her mother clearly are. Sol’s wife does not seem to have a problem with it either.
If it is your story sol, you may find some relief in sharing it. Others may learn from how it all came to play out.
Lol PM. That is awfully threatening for someone who is “pro-life”!!!
He probably just stared because he could not think of anything clever to say.
JM, it would take up all the bandwidth here to post your unfactual facts.
Let’s start with the 4 to one black vs white abortion ratio you melted down over on Saturday.
Even your own CDC figures proved you wrong. Your response?
Meltdown. And fighting about the percentage of races that make up the American population. Like that had anything to do with your blatently wrong take on the numbers.
I fear you are heading toward meltdown again today.
Many time zealots on either side of a fence are a bit “off”.Threatening someone’s life or worse acting makes one part of the lunatic fringe.
ksfarmgrrl,
That distortion of the facts on that thread is a retread from CapnAmerica.
I went to the CDC website and found the 3 to 1 ratio of black versus caucausian abortion. By the time I got back someone had already posted the link. I merely pointed out the fact that the government analysis was there to be read by everyone willing to go to the link.
And of course, I don’t believe like you ksfarmgrrl and Political Mom that the population of the US is 50 percent caucausian and 50 percent black.
Not only did you discount other races, Oriental, Hispanic and other, you totally denied what the US Census report says about the distribution of population by race.
Not only that, I pointed out what the Congressional Black Caucas says about the percentage of Blacks in America.
Did I hear any response back from you or Politcial Mom?
Nope, nothing but crickets chirping.
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.”
So when JM wrote yesterday that John Kerry claimed that “every soldier committed atrocities in Vietnam,” and the full testimony was posted in which one could plainly see that John Kerry did not say that, this would be an example of someone making up his own “facts.”
By the way, did you know that JM had sex with Rush Limbaugh? I read it in The Congressional Record.
Look it up yourself if you don’t believe it.
This is my new strategy: every time a reich-winger makes an outrageous LIE that he can’t back up, then we get to make up a lie to counter-balance their lie.
JM = Jerk Moron.
I have to say that abortion is not an actual issue in politics these days. Many people, like my grandmother, support republicans for President so they can put conservatives in the Supreme Court to eventually overturn Roe v Wade. Abortion is a good way to get hard-core antis to fork over some dollars (and a vote), but the fact is: IT WILL NEVER BE OVERTURNED. The question comes down to the individual woman. If she supports choice and uses it, that his her decision. If she doesn’t support abortion, then she CHOOSES not to utilize it. Hence the CHOICE, and why I support it.
Sol,You and I have argued over this topic many times but I am sorry for your grief. I can’t imagine what you must be feeling and I just want you to know that I will say a prayer for you everytime your name comes to my mind. I do hope you can find a way to reach out to your son and his girlfriend but now you need to take care of yourself and there is healing in that. I am glad you felt ok about sharing your sorrow with us and I want you to know that I feel privileged to listen.
JM, don’t you know your prophet Rush Limbaugh loves Roe v. Wade. Ever since he got caught with his hillbilly heroin he loves the right to privacy enshrined by the Roe v. Wade decision. You wouldn’t want your buddy Rush and other conservative Republicans going to jail right?
JM, (explaining patiently here) the percentages of blacks and whites in the population means nothing in the context of 4:1 abortions, with four blacks being aborted to every one white.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/01/are_abortion_re.html#comments
Scroll down to Clark’s 10:39 post if you dont have the stomach to read the whole thing.
YOUR OWN FIGURES from the CDC do not back up what you are saying.
Geez, I am NOT going down this road with you again. You were posting out yer ass again, and when PROVEN wrong, with your own statistics, you stomp your feet and try to change the subject.
“this is not a pipe….”
A little judicial history housecleaning in order here: the “right to privacy” is enshrined in Griswold v. Connecticut; Roe v. Wade adds to it.
Hey Vaughn or GMC,
What’s the chance of me sueing the Wichita Eagle for allowing CapnAmerica’s repeated the statement that I had sex with Rush Limbaugh.
He may think it is funny, but I find it slanderous and liabolous.
The percentage of African-Americans is somewhere around 12 percent.
It’s a little bit more complicated than that because of the question of how much African ancestry constitutes a “black”?
Barack Obama is half-white and half-black, so of course he’s black (to whites).
Anyway, any estimate of the black population above 15 percent is clearly in error.
That’s a fact that’s not really in dispute.
What about the “Patriot” Act?
I wish the Abortion Abolitionists would get a grip on reality. Roe v. Wade didn’t invent abortion. Abortion has been around since women have been getting pregnant.
Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion and get a clue.
Roe v. Wade simply found that laws against abortion violate a constitutional right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States.
It’s about as conservative a decision as there can be. It says that the government has no business interferring with a patient and a doctor. Do you really want a bunch of legislators — lawyers and insurance agents and farmers — deciding by a show of hands whether or not you get chemotherapy or surgery to remove your inflamed appendix? Thank you, no. I think it’s something between me and my doctor. That’s what Roe v. Wade was all about.
Oh, but you profess *faith* that a new life begins at conception, do you? And that, from the moment of conception that new “life” has all the rights and privileges of a walking, talking human being?
Sorry. Arbitrary as it seems, that’s not the way things work in the real world. Kids can’t get a driver’s license 16 years after they were conceived, but 16 years after they’re born. Premies don’t have to wait ’til they’re 16-years-and-a-month and babies that are late don’t get a driver’s license at 15-years-and-11-months.
For eighteen hundred years the official position of the Catholic Church was that “life” begins at the moment of “quickening,” when the mother feels movement within her womb. Even the “infallibility” of the Pope has arbitrarily shifted over the years.
Those of us affiliated with the Reality-Based community know that overturning Roe v. Wade, or passing draconian laws against abortion will achieve only a return to back-alley abortions.
If the so-called “Pro-Life” people were honest, they’d rename their movement “Pro-Mutilation-of-Women.”
But then, honesty isn’t what they’re about. What they’re about is being pawns for the Republic Party.
ksfarmgrrl,
And you don’t believe that CapnAmerica and WS Clark troll me and put up false postings to make me look bad eh?
You must be naive or just ignore the fact that they do troll on a regular basis.
Well, it could have been another JM from Wichita, JM, but I’m pretty sure it was you.
At least that’s what it said in The Congressional Record.
Prove that it doesn’t . . .
JM, your chances of suing the Eagle for the Limbaugh joke are about the same as mine for the Drug Addict reference….
I won’t try and speak for JM, but my guess is what he could have been trying to state is the high number of abortions by African Americans(43% of all) while they make up roughly 15% (this is generous) of the overall population?That’s still an issue.
Hey JM did Rush give ya a reach around?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The problem with any quote from the Congressional Record is that some yahoo like Inhofe can insert fiction into it. Then, someone can quote it as though it were fact.
Let the record show that I have never trolled JM.
“And you don’t believe that CapnAmerica and WS Clark troll me and put up false postings to make me look bad eh?”
Nice try, JM, put your stupid posts are yours and yours alone. It is a pretty pathetic defense to claim that it was the “troller” that did it.
I have never trolled anyone. Period.
Besides, everyone knows that Nutz and Fleet are the regular trolls.
Monkeyhawk,
Good points, but is it the women who are getting mutilated alone? Maybe there is another factor in the formulation.
You can only sue for slander, JM, if you can prove that it’s not true.
I can understand why you would not want this getting around, but think of how much you could make on a BOOK DEAL?
“LIMBAUGH’S GAY!” asserts former male lover.
Cha-ching! You’re on Oprah’s book club . . .
CapnAmerica,
Since when did I start living in Wichita?
It’s a medical procedure JM. Would you be upset if you opted for brain surgery to remove a tumor, but your wife decided for chemo instead?
“Maybe there is another factor in the formulation.” -JM
The right to decide lies with the patient, and with no one else.
Let the record show I have never trolled anyone.Capn, can you say the same?
Taxes – is Bush going to impose a ‘back-door’ tax increase on the middle class? Apparently the WSJ thinks maybe so (note that the author here refers to the WSJ as the Towel):
“This morning’s Wall Street Journal [subscription required] previewed President Bush’s State of the Union (SOTU) speech with the kind of “objective reporting” that makes me want to go back to the dictionary to look up “objective.”
While Newsweek reports that Karl Rove is betting his colleagues $5 that President Bush will not raise taxes in his final two years in office, if the Towel is to be believed, Bush is planning to propose a tax increase in his SOTU tomorrow evening.
How so? Currently individuals who receive health insurance through their employers do not pay tax on the value of the health insurance benefit. And those who buy health insurance themselves do not get tax breaks on their premiums.
But under Bush’s SOTU proposal, the Towel reports, families receiving health insurance through their employers would be required to count the benefits as income. For a family receiving $12,000 in annual health insurance benefits, this could amount to an effective tax increase of $3,360 for a family with a 28% tax rate.”
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2007/01/22/towel-talk-bush-to-propose-tax-increase/
Hey check out the photo of my Hillary for President Snowman!
http://forum.saljournal.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=57&limit=recent
For the record, I have as much evidence that Jerk Moron had sex with Rush as he has that Kerry accused every soldier in Vietnam of atrocities.
We both have the same amount of evidence for our assertions: none.
The difference is that I don’t believe my lies–he apparently believes his.
Very accurate, P Mom, leans a little bit to the right….
As frozen stiff as the snow person (it is wearing a skirt and mink stoll) I thought it was Hillary….
Ok JM, here I’ll throw you a bone- the stats I saw, and posted, were apparently wrong.
But whites are not as huge of a majority as you thought they were either.
66% of Americans are white.
JM doesn’t live in Wichita?
Okay, it must have been ANOTHER male JM that had sex with Limbaugh then.
My bad . . .
LOL kia.
LMAO PM. I can’t believe you actually did that…
As for taxes, I would prefer more accountability with what we do with the money to make more room in the budget as opposed to raising taxes.
But I would rather pay more taxes than have our outrageous debt keep increasing and making the dollars I earn more and more worthless.
lol Pmom
Going for some anatomical correctness I see; and as W S Clark pointed out leaning to the right. Nice catch WS. heh
You have a perscirption bottle as the nose too, that is classic…
P_Mom admitted she was wrong.
Why can’t JM?
Because he’s Jerk Moron . . .
Capn,
I do own a house in College Hill, but I don’t live there, it is rented out through a Real Estate agency.
Well, it’s only by the grace of Congress in passing that which we all lovingly refer to as the “Code” that the value of such benefits isn’t determined to be taxable income. Thus, much as in the consumer interest deduction issue, what Congress giveth, Congress can taketh.
Actually, those purchasing health insurance for themselves may get a partial tax break therefor IF they can itemize, and IF the total of the allowable medical deductions (including health insurance premiums) is >7.5% AGI. Don’t forget the deduction for the self-employed for health insurance premiums; it’s an adjustment to income, not subject to the 7.5% of AGI floor, but is subject to some restrictions nonetheless.
Let the record show I have never trolled anyone.Capn, can you say the same?
Posted by: fleettwood | January 22, 2007 at 12:27 PM
hmmmmm?
I’m glad someone caught the snowboobs! I told ya, I don’t lie, I did it exactly like I said I would hehe.
Yeah I was mad at my daughter over the pill bottle, it was supposed to have gone in with the orange part sticking out.
Is it me or do the boobs look inverted?Mom check your mail.
I haven’t been able to follow this thread, but Soldevb asked me to post this for him, as he’s unable to post for now.———————————-Facts of the issue:
The ‘mother’ is 16 years old and far from a woman. She can neither vote nor sign a contract, but you folks think she has the right to commit murder.
The’father’ is 17 – almost 18. Scared and dumb. Dumb as a damn rock. Great decision making skills there right?
The ‘Couple’ He is afraid of the responsibility, she can not ‘Handle someone else raising her kid.’ So instead of giving the child a chance for life with SOMEONE, she murdered him.
My wife. Pro-life, but more scared of alienating her son.
The ‘mother’s’ mother. Pro-life, but more scared of alienating her daughter.
I DIDN’T do everything I could to prevent this. I will live with that stain on my soul. I was asked (as you can re-read) not to talk to the kids, but to try a different approach on Sat morning (that wasn’t in the post).
I didn’t announce that I would be a grandfather as soon as I found out. I most assuredly would have when my grandson was born and shipped y’all all out a case of cigars.
Talking point:
Is a 16 year old able to make a life and death decision. If so, why can she not yet vote? A ‘woman’s’ right to choose? Maybe, at least that is what the law is.
A little girl’s right to choose? Absolutely not.
Challenge:
All you pro-choicers, go to an abortion clinic. Volunteer for 30 days to ‘process the tissue’. That is, put the pieces of the baby that has been ripped apart back together. They have to do that to make sure all the pieces of the ‘product of conception’ make a whole baby and they didn’t miss any parts.
I challenge all of you to do that for 30 days. If at the end you still don’t feel like abortion is murder, then bully for you.
Gee, thanks for asking, Fleetwood.
Many moons ago before you even were on this blog, I used to get trolled a lot.
In frustration, I trolled some post-ers that I thought were trolling me.
I realize now that they probably weren’t the culprits and I regret what I did.
Since using this nic, I have only posted under one other nic “The Finger” like twice or three times.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program . . .
Brave post Tracy. I can’t detract or add to it.
“I DIDN’T do everything I could to prevent this. I will live with that stain on my soul. I was asked (as you can re-read) not to talk to the kids, but to try a different approach on Sat morning (that wasn’t in the post).”
Right, Sol. I agree that the pain you cause yourself is the hardest to bear.
But you have to understand that this wasn’t your decision and it wasn’t in your control.
You didn’t encourage them to have sex, did you? No? Well, then there you go.
Not your fault.
Also the issue is not “is abortion horrible”? Everybody knows it’s horrible. Nobody likes it.
The issue is should it be illegal? If it had been, your step-son’s girlfriend might very well be dead right now.
Illegal abortion never worked very well–there were about as many abortions when it was illegal as when it was legal. The difference is that a lot more poor women died from them. Wealthy women never had any trouble.
What surprises me the most about this whole episode is that the kids even told you about it . . . why tell you that they’re pregnant and get your hopes up when they never seemed to have any hesitation about getting an abortion?
That’s what doesn’t compute.
“The ‘mother’ is 16 years old and far from a woman. She can neither vote nor sign a contract, but you folks think she has the right to commit murder.” – Tracy
Clearly, this is not murder (according to the state and the majority of the American people), so explain how this is a “fact”.
How dare you make judgments on these people acting within their own rights! In all honesty, it is NONE of your business. They are clearly not mature enough to have a child together, and if she doesn’t want to have it at all, then that is her decision!
As for your talking point, many 16 year olds are old enough to make mature decisions for themselves and others. Many people who fought and died for this nation throughout its history were that young and younger. My grandfather was 16 when he joined the army in WW2.Also, there are massive amounts of people 18 or over who cannot make mature decisions. The year 18 is just the average age of maturity. And the courts dismissed this argument some time ago, so this whole point is moot.
Your argument holds no more logical weight than saying women should not vote because they are more emotional than men.
YOU are making generalizations about these kids like other conservatives did about women during the suffrage movement. Though not the same generalizations, they hold no more logical/rational weight.
Your views are behind the moral zeitgeist of the people of this nation, and unless tha zeitgeist went backward, abortion is here to stay.
Keeping abortion illegal didn’t seem to stop George W. Bush from getting one for his girlfriend in 1971.
http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=159
Tracy, for Sol, for whatever reason.
This 16 year old is old enough to know that she’s not in a position to raise a baby. But had she chose to KEEP the baby, I’m sure you would have thought it perfectly fine for a teen to be raising a baby, that she was plenty mature enough to do that..why is the girl too young to decide only when she decides abortion?
You wanted a girl to give up her baby to be raised by her potential father in law….excuse me…husband’s mother’s husband.
How do you think that would have been for her to come over there and see her baby being raised by you? Did you ever think of that? What about you?Why didn’t you ask her to just give the baby up for adoption to someone else?
I can tell you exactly what would have happened. She would have had the baby and at the last minute chose to keep it. And then your ‘dumb’ wife’s child would have probably decided in a few months to skate out of the picture. And then she’d be 16, trying to raise a baby, and stuck by herself.
That’s what happens A LOT.
The glee in which you seem to post is precisely why many Americans oppose abortion. It’s disgusting. It is human life being destroyed because it is inconvenient. And many like yourself seem to take joy rather than mourning in it. For both the unborn life as well as the woman having to go thru it.
Abortion will continue to be legal. Making it illegal wouldn’t change the need. I would like to see this go to be a state by state decision, which is all the overturning of roe v. wade would do.
Sorry the “glee” comment is directed towards Andrew.
I agree, Capn’, that abortion is an unpleasant subject. Contrary to right wing opinion, no one is really PRO-ABORTION. No one wants to see a woman have an abortion.
It would be a wonderful world if there was no need for abortion to be available. It would be a wonderful world if all children could be born to loving, secure families.
Women had abortions for years prior to Roe v. Wade. Some had back alley abortions performed by off-duty nurses or on duty shysters. The better off women had their abortions in the doctor’s office – they just called them D & C’s.
As I have posted before, the real answer to the issue is to prevent the need for abortions by providing comprehensive sex education at an early enough age that kids that have sex can make knowledgeable decisions.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the question of sex education, the right wing approach is usually a variation of “just say no.”
And the merry-go-round just keeps on going in circles.
Right PM, I have a friend who had that same experience, but at the age of 15!
Her parents were poor, and she worked as a waitress and a stripper for awhile before finishing technical school. Although, everyone loves her son, realistically things would have been better for herself, her family, and her son if she had given him up anonymously. He still has no Dad and lives in an apartment with whoever her boyfriend of the moment is.
Good points Andrew. We should note here how many 18 year olds are carrying guns in Iraq and elsewhere “defending their country.” The government of the US feels that 18 year olds can commit themselves to military service, so why should they not be able to make a decision whether to have an abortion? I know the girl in Sol’s story is 16, but not that much maturity really happens in 2 years.
Right, glee… I have personal experience with this issue. Can you say the same? I have to justify what happened to me, and I believe in that right very strongly.
If you would read my above posts, I believe abortion is irresponsible, but that is not the issue.
Nice point WSC. Kids are gonna have sex…
Nice job Capn,
You post an unverified story that violates the privacy of woman and her current husband.
Where are all the privacy Pro-Choice activists on this one?
It’s okay to violate the privacy rights for talking points?
Yeah, just as I thought.
Good points WSC. I am “pro-choice” but think that abrotion sucks. I have never been involved in one; my counsel has always been life – but I have been able to have that option available.
There was an article in yesterday’s Eagle about 2 instances of horrible diagnoses – both involving WANTED children. It is stories like those – and loke Sol’s – that show the tragedy that is this topic.
All that we can do is try to be supportive and try to make the life alternative as easy to utilize as possible.
Dang Pee,No need to get all huffy. I don’t see anywhere in our email thread where you said you were “staying up”. I told you it would likely be around 1 or 2, but that we had to be flexible – and that was before the blizzard. For all I knew, since you said you lived outside Salina, you wouldn’t be coming in town anyway.
I had no internet access, and I had an extra kid with me. I’m sorry it didn’t work out; what’s the big deal?
Way to go capn. With Larry Flynt as your source, you can’t go wrong.
I don’t believe for one moment that Rush had sex with JM. Rush may be a jerk but he’s not exactly desperate.
I’m in the military and in Iraq, and I still can’t believe they give some of these kids guns!
You are correct, WS.
The same wing-nuts that are the most rabidly anti-abortion are the ones who are most anti-sex ed.
There are a few exceptions on this blog–but for the most part, that generality stands.
Look at Randall Terry (former head of Operation Rescue) who ridiculed condom use, the Bush-wingers who linked “abstinance only” sex ed to federal funding, and the Catholic church whose position is STILL that sex is only for procreation period.
The help create the very problem that they then inveigh against.
That’s right JM – Flynt is no more a reliable source that I am – and you sure use a lot of MY links!
Well, Fleet, Flynt has the money and the resources to investigate and point out right wing hypocrisy.
Remember Bob Livingston, woulda, coulda been Speaker? Remember Henry “Youthful” Hyde? Remember Dan “Watermelon” Burton?
The problem that the right wing has with Flynt is that he proves right wing hypocrisy.
Hi Andrew :)
If you need anything over there, just use my email here and I’ll try and get it to you.
I’ll pray for your safe return home.
Nobody has glee for abortion. Lets get that straight off the bat. Nobody has glee when teens get pregnant, or has glee when a woman is so sick she feels her health is in jeopardy.
I CHOSE life for my kids, and where the hell were you all when I was laid up in the hospital with septic shock and nearly died?
Where the hell were you when I was barely 18, with a child who had a damaged arm from birth screaming all the time-to the point where I thought of doing harmful things to her?
I DID it alone for 10 years till I married my husband. I cried my eyes out when I couldn’t pay the bills, when I had to tell her no, when I had to leave her at home alone and make her walk home from school alone because I had to work.
There is no glee in any of that either.
What’s a matter, Teatwood? You don’t like Hustler?
As far as privacy goes, JM, women only got the right to privacy in this regard with the ratification of Roe v Wade.
Since this occurred BEFORE Roe v Wade, the little vixen had no privacy.
Besides, knowing Bush, they were probably both coked to the gills.
Save your prayer JM and call your Senator. The surge means I get 4 extra months over here. Nothing like back-to-back summers in the desert!
“Dang Pee,No need to get all huffy. I don’t see anywhere in our email thread where you said you were “staying up”. I told you it would likely be around 1 or 2, but that we had to be flexible – and that was before the blizzard. For all I knew, since you said you lived outside Salina, you wouldn’t be coming in town anyway.
I had no internet access, and I had an extra kid with me. I’m sorry it didn’t work out; what’s the big deal?”
Clear back when you first emailed me, I told you what hours I worked, and that I would stay up because you wanted to eat dinner with your swim team parents. I had suggested dinner, remember, because of that.
Flexible was fine, I sat here till 2:30 waiting on your ass, that’s 2 whole hours after you said you’d be emailing me. And you didn’t email me till 7:15PM!
You said you chose to go to the mall instead. YOu could have gone back to the hotel to email me to cancel before you went to the mall, Salina isn’t that big. I bet you could have emailed me from inside the school, considering most schools have WIFI.
And yeah, by 2:30 it WAS really bad out- but at 12:30 or even 1, it wasn’t that bad and I could have made it. You assumed I wouldn’t have driven up there in the snow why?
I’ve never missed a day of anything due to snow.
Thanks for your service, Andrew.
I was against this war from Day One. I marched against, I write against, I vote for people who will end it.
We’re doing what we can–despite the f*cking right-wing–to bring you home as soon as possible safe and sound.
The sand pit that is Iraq isn’t worth one American life, let alone 3000 . . .
Right-wing Summarization:We want businesses to make lots of money so our stocks go up. But we shop at Wal-Mart where everything is made cheap in China. We won’t let US companies hire cheap labor to keep up with low labor rates outside the US.We want US workers to be able to make a ‘good living’ so we focus on artificially keeping wages high. We do not want to pay any more than we absolutely have to for Education funding. We prefer school bonds for new football fields over those for libraries and computers.We do not want kids to be taught how to protect themselves from sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy, we prefer to tell them that they should not have sex and it is wrong. We do not teach our kids that fightnig and violence is wrong, but prefer to teach them how to fight and are proud when they win.We claim we value life so abortion must be stopped at all costs. But we do not want to increase funding for adoption agencies and State Social Services or offer free health care to pregnant women pre or post-partum. We clain that all life is precious, but have no second thoughts about dropping thousands of bombs on an enemy city because we do not negotiate with terrorists.
Did I miss anything?
Can a 16 year old legally consent to an abortion in KS? Or does she have to have parental consent, or one of Dr. Tiller’s famous “mental health” exceptions?
Clearly Sol was misled by the mother of the 16 year old. They undoubtedly had already set the appointment.
Most 16 year olds have no idea what they are doing. They cannot make a reasonable choice. They are desperate for their predicament to “go away” ASAP so that they can go back to being a young girl. And avoid the adult consequences. Not a good life lesson. And sad.
CapnAmerica
Are you a Medicolegal expert and know for a fact this is not a violation of privacy?
Explain your legal strongpoints on this matter that allow you to post on the Internet the private medical procedures of individuals.
Good post, Brian.
You nailed it.
“Can a 16 year old legally consent to an abortion in KS? Or does she have to have parental consent”
She HAD parental consent and consent of the father.
Oh brother. Always the victim. We didn’t even leave FOR the mall until 3:00. I don’t know if the school had wifi; I didn’t get my laptop out. It was a swim meet. I was busy cheering. =)
I said I was sorry. You weren’t clear about when you were available. We clearly could have met at 7:30 when I gave you my cell info. You chose not to call. The end.
Andrew,
Okay whatever. I’ll just pray for my grandnephew who is on his third deployment in Iraq.
Also, JM, the woman wasn’t even named.
So how could her privacy be violated?
Flynt brought up a good point–why can’t the press ask the question?
“Mr. Bush, did you ever get a girlfriend pregnant that was terminated by abortion?”
How hard is that?
Too hard for our “liberal press” apparently.
Hey Bryan,
All those responsibilites about passing compassionate legislation are your responsibilities as well.
Am I to believe that there are no Liberals that shop at Walmart so they don’t contribute to the problem as well?
Snake oil…
People need to remember that TRACY was posting on behalf of and at the request of sol. There seems to be a bit of confusion on that.
Well sol if you can read me….
I would say that you did all that you could. If you want to beat yourself up about it no one can stop you. But in the end it just was not your decision to make.
This is the sort of thing that can blow a family apart if you let it.
Reality says that your stepson and his girlfriend will likely not be together long term. His girfriend will go out of his life.
You would do well to remember what someone said above. These two young people were determined not to be parents at this time. If abortion were illegal and they had had to seek one, the girl could have ended up mutilated or dead. Your son might be in prison.
His mother seems to have the correct attitude here. At least as far as preserving her relationship with her son.
This leaves you as odd man out with your wife if you let it fester.
Capn,
The link you posted here in this blog, clearly had names and a chronology.
For those who ask if a 16 year old can consent to an abortion, no, not without a parent or a judicial bypass.
BUT conversely, a 13 year old can choose to KEEP her baby over the objections of the parents and a judge. Hospitals are required to allow any pregnant girl of any age to consent for her own care relating to the pregnancy without a parent.
So if I were 13, and I walked into a hospital pregnant and needing help for bleeding during pregnancy, I could consent. If I needed an antibiotic for an earache, I’d have to get consent from my parent.
Why can a kid choose legally to keep her baby, but they can’t choose to have an abortion?
Oh but it really doesn’t matter now anyway, because most 16 year olds and under who are pregnant are never going to go to either a hospital or clinic now that they know they’ll be investigated, and their boyfriends jailed.
JM–
By golly, you’re right.
But since you don’t admit you were wrong about Kerry, I don’t admit I was wrong either.
Well, mom, having a baby is a natural consequence of pregnancy. Having an abortion requires outside intervention to terminate a life. Clear enough???
Well, JM, publishing the names of someone that committed a crime is not illegal. Since abortion was not legal in Texas in 1971, then mentioning the names of the principals would be perfectly acceptable.
In other words, tough (stuff) George and Robin.
TRACY IS POSTING FOR ME BECAUSE OF TECHNICAL ISSUES……SOL
Andrew,
I already posted that it is legal. Does that make it right? And again. See the challenge. Go to a clinic and put baby parts together for a month and THEN tell me its not murder.
And you digress in your own argument. Some 16 year olds can make good decisions. Some 18 year olds can’t. When it comes to LIFE you are this nonchalant? You sir have the moral fiber of a butchered pig.
P_Mom
If you re-read, I gave them every option. If she wanted to raise the child, we would help her do that, with or without my former step son in the picture.
“How do you think that would have been for her to come over there and see her baby being raised by you? Did you ever think of that?”
You know what? If she didn’t want to come over, she didn’t have to.
You put the ‘mother’s’ COMFORT level above the life of a child??? How disgusting is that. PLEASE don’t tell me that because someone is UNCOMFRORTABLE being around a baby that that garners the right to KILL IT !!!!!———————————-Like Sollie says…..I’m the messenger.No dog in this fight.
Babies are NOT consequences and they’re not punishments. At least, they should never be THOUGHT OF as punishments. What do you not get about that?
Do you advocate no medical intervention during pregnancy? You do know what the maternal mortality rate is for not having prenatal care is right?
JM,
“I’ll just pray for my grandnephew who is on his third deployment in Iraq.”
That’s a good idea. Multiple, and extended tours cause more fatigue, which increases the chances of making mistakes, resulting in troop injuries, and/or deaths.
JM – Am I to believe that there are no Liberals that shop at Walmart so they don’t contribute to the problem as well?
I would never assert something as absurd as that JM. We all shop at Wal-Mart and contribute to our societies problems.
The difference is the right-wingers stand on their soapbox and preach their view of right and wrong that they think everyone else must follow. Then not only do they not advocate other things that would support their agendas, but often their other big talking points contradict them.
Testicles, you blew it. You said you were extending an olive branch. How is contacting me nearly 7 hours after you were supposed to, constituting ME playing a victim? Just shows how damn overblown your ego really is man.
Tell ya what nuts. How about I meet you somewhere. Yeah, at the Walmart on West Kellogg. At 7pm tonight.
And hang out there awhile, I might be a little late…
Sol still hasn’t explained why the girlfriend let everybody know she were pregnant and they should buy little hats and stuff if she was planning to abort all along . . .
WS Clark,
Fair enough on a crime for the illegal abortion.
Come up with the court case that convicted this woman of an illegal act.
I suspect you cannot. Therefore you are practicing another hypothetical and trying to make it a fact.
Boy mom, I wish you would think through your posts before you push the button. Or a least look up the meaning of words you don’t know.
Babies are a natural consequence of pregnancy.
“Consequence: Something that logically or naturally follows from an action or condition.”
And you were the one who equated a pregnant young girl receiving prenatal medical care without consent to getting an abortion without consent.
This place reminds me of the local donut shop.Back in the good ol’ days when you could enjoy a good cigarette with your coffee and donut.There were always 6 or 8 old curmudgeons sitting in the back cussing and discussing politics.Oh the good old days………
Heh, WS, see how it goes.
If you have facts and names, the reich-wing accuses you of “violating privacy.”
If you don’t have facts and names, they accuse you of not having evidence.
In this case, they accuse Flynt of 1. no evidence AND 2. violating privacy.
Consistency isn’t their strong suit. However, they will consistently shill for Bush no matter what.
“When it comes to LIFE you are this nonchalant? You sir have the moral fiber of a butchered pig.”
First, I am a soldier. Life as I see it is different than your religious-based views of it. I see a kid runover by a humvee as a tragedy. Your people just say “the cost of war.” You sir are a hypocrite!
Personal attacks and judgements like yours are typical of a self-centered, hypocritical Christian.
I am smart enough to know that morality is relative, and you have no ethical responsibility here. They knew your views, and made their decision anyway. Are you more uspet that they didn’t listen to you or about the abortion issue itself? Ask yourself that.
As for prayer for soldiers, I believe it just makes people feel like they are doing something. When they should be writing Senators and Congressman and stopping this gaggle-f**k as we call it here.
Consequences always denote something negative, outlander. You never hear anyone say ‘it was a consequence that I won the lottery because I bought a ticket’.
Look at the prefix of the word: Con..meaning against… natural or not, it still means negative.
Capn America,
How can my opinion be wrong?
You do know what an opinion is don’t you?
I say Kerry lied before Congress in 1971 along with tens of thousands of other people.
You know the one of the leaders of the organization that Kerry belong to? He claimed to be a Captain in the Air Force and his jet was downed. He was really a Staff Sergeant who had never been to Vietnam.
This is the type of information that Kerry brought before Congress as fact by aligning himself with the so called credibility of the Winter testimony of the VVAW.
In fact,Kerry was proud of all the assertions made by the VVAW. There were a lot people in that organization that stole the identities of real servicemen and testified before Congress. Kerry knew while he was a member of VVAW that most of the information provided to Congress was a lie.
But did Kerry say it was questionable? Nope, he lied to Congress by calling forth these “Winter Warriors” as true spokesman when in fact he knew they were lieing and there were impersonators in the group.
“Come up with the court case that convicted this woman of an illegal act.”
That is funny, JM!!!!!
Oh, come on now. Really. A Bush related crime in Texas? An illegal abortion for the benefit of a rich white boy named Bush?
No trial, no conviction, no news.
Christ, she could have had the abortion on the Fifty Yard Line at Texas Stadium at halftime of a Cowboys – Redskins game and there still would not have been any criminal charges.
‘Taint gonna happen in this lifetime!
JM–
Your pitiful attempt to camoflague your LIE either shows you are really mendacious or just kind of stupid.
What you said and what is in question is your assertion that Kerry said “every soldier in Vietnam is guilty of war atrocities.”
This, he did not say.
You can read through his lengthy testimony (if you can read) and see that he never said that.
That’s the LIE you wrote and which you won’t admit was a LIE.
Andrew,
I’m retired military. If there were blogs back in the day, I certainly would join them while on active duty.
Perhaps you are familiar with conduct unbecoming. You might want to choose your words carefully especially broadcasting on a mil channel. You never know who is watching.
A word to the wise so to speak.
A quote that applies to JM’s “opinions”,
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so. (Mark Twain)
Al Gore’s movie ‘An Inconvenient Truth’, and book (pg 20).
I believe the likelyhood of Andrew being a soldier in Iraq are about the same as him being an aborted fetus come back to life.
Hey Capn,
Hold onto that and get all warm and snuggly, you won’t get an answer because of your consistent disrespect to me.
Besides, it is evident everyone on the blog ignores your rants and vulgar ad hominem remarks.
THIS IS NOT TRACY
TRACY IS POSTING FOR SOLDEVVB BECAUSE OF TECHNICAL ISSUES
And, for the record, all the people I am referring to here are in Michigan.
P_Mom,
My wife had an eptopic(sp?) pregnancy. She had to have her tube removed and with it my child. She was admitted to the ER and had they not removed the tube, I would have lost my child and my wife.
Can you put that in the same category as a 16 and 17 year old not wanting to deal with responsibility and ‘not being able to handle my kid raised by someone else?’
Put on top of that, every option possible for that child to live. If one option didn’t work, then it could be changed in the future. Every option that is except abortion. That is irreversible.
So, P_Mom, what do you suggest they do should they get pregnant again? Kill another kid? Sounds like that is what you advocate.
Should abortion be illegal? No, I don’t think so. There are extenuating circumstances.
In the same breath, do I think that a 16 year old should kill a baby that had many options for life? Can any of you say you support that? At LEAST 3 households where that baby would have had a wonderful family, but instead is dead. Can any of you say that was the best outcome for ANYONE involved and that you support this?
Cap’n,I fully believe the ‘mother’ intended to have her child. I believe she was coerced, mostly from the one that got her pregnant, because he did not want to take responsibility for his actions. I can’t speak for the girl.
You should have seen her face light up when I gave her the baby clothes. Do I think she wanted to abort from the get go? My OPINION is no.
She has a noodle of a mother that is more concerned with ‘how her daughter feels’ than the life of an innocent child.
Oh My God!
Look at JM trying to shut down a serviceman who’s speaking his mind.
Yeah, support the troops, you POS bastard.
He’s fighting for the “freedom” to let snot-pukes like you to tell him to shut up.
Andrew, when they threaten you, you know you’ve told the truth.
Keep it up. Bush Co. still hasn’t shut down free speech in this country much as they’d like to.
And JM, if you don’t like Americans speaking their minds, you’re welcome to move to f*cking North Korea.
Pee,The more you whine about this, the more you show why you’re a perfect liberal. You’re never willing to accept responsibility for your own situation. It’s always someone else’s fault.
What you said makes no sense to me. I can say whatever I want to say excluded OPSEC. Am I talking about times and movements and troop levels? No.
You can’t counter my arguments so you try to shut me up by implying you will report me?
Grow up!
JM writes: you won’t get an answer because of your consistent disrespect to me.
Oh boo hoo, JM.
Looks like we can see who got his ass kicked on that little exchange . . .
Don’t worry about it, P_Mom.
We can see who had the guts to show up and who didn’t.
That’s why we call them CONservatives.
Andrew, you can answer my question.How does the Iraqi army get it’s soldiers?All volunteer?
So a woman who cares about what happens to her daughter, and listens to her daughter, is now a NOODLE?
Gee Sol, I can’t understand WHY this girl didn’t want to talk to you or let you raise her baby.
If this were my daughter, and my daughter is 16 right now….
I would hope for adoption, but under no circumstances would I want her to keep the baby. If that meant she had an abortion, that is the route I would prefer over her keeping it.
“I” can’t raise the baby, and I know SHE can’t raise the baby. But I tell you, it’s awfully hard once you give birth to actually give it up. And that haunts you for life as well.
IT IS NOT YOUR PLACE to say what this girl should have done. It was HER life, HER decisions she’s going to have to live with. And she has a more promising outlook for her future and her future children without being a teen parent.
None of her options were good.She chose what she felt was best for her, and her mother supported her decision. You need to let it go, and quit calling everyone involved names.
No Capn,
I’m looking out for Andrews welfare. In war zones, Military Intelligence, CID, AFOSI, Navy OSI monitor all communications traffice going in and out of the zone.
When you are in a War Zone, free speech is limited because of operational security, communication security and physical security.
Innocent communication you say? Well, the enemy listens to comm-outs too. If they can get one IOTA of info out of an innocent conversation they will use it to their advantage.
Advice goes to Nathan as well, although I understand he is back?
Wouldn’t want to see a troop jacked up by the Intel folks. They have no humor at all.
All-volunteer but many quit when they don’t get paid.
Listen, I gotta go. I was real fun tonight.
Now I will return to my simple trailer and my hidden stash-o-porn.
I know, it’s atrocious that flogtesticles is trying to pin this on me..he knows he’s in the wrong.
Andrew,
Perhaps you need to re-read what Comm-Sec and Op-SEc says. Rest assured feel free to comment here, just be careful and know Uncle Sugar has very large ears and one just never knows.
I understand OPSEC you dumbass.
How have I said anything tonight that would endanger my mission or the lives of the people I serve and work with?
Get of your moral high-horse. Your just pissed cuz I dissed your prayer request. And please don’t bother. I would rather you pick your nose.
I emailed you when we got to the hotel and gave you my phone number. You never called. Of course you’re in the wrong.
And I’m out!
I have to believe you are right JM.I know at my work our emails and web usage can be and sometimes is monitored. Co-workers have been written up for correspondence that was critical of supervisors. This is in a private company. Imagine what the military would do.
However, I still am not buying a soldier in Iraq is going to have pretty much his own access for 3+ hours straight (from what was around 9am to 12midnight local time.)
Bullshit, JM.
You want him to shut up because he’s saying exactly what Kerry and the other disillusioned soldiers were saying about Vietnam four year into the quagmire.
He puts the lie to everything you say about this war and our previous imperialistic adventure gone very, very wrong.
You reich-wingers wanted this war to vindicate your revisionist history of the last one: that we could have “won” Vietnam if only the liberals hadn’t gotten in the way.
Instead it’s completely reinforced the lesson of Vietnam: you can’t create a nation by bombing it . . . no matter how big your bombs are.
Andrew,
Okay. Fair enough. Ask your Commander or First Shirt on what level of respect you are supposed to say to active duty and retired personnel.
I don’t think the term dumbass is included in there.
It’s a bit funny, Capn’, these folks are all over Andrew because he does not tow the Neocon line, but they love Nathan because he says what they want to hear.
Well, JM, what kind of respect do you show to retired miliatry Kerry?
Kia,
I can’t tell you how I know communications are monitored in a War Zone, just be assured that it is nauseatedly uncomfortable if you are a troop talking on a phone, using a computer or any other form of comm.
You are probably right about the access times. I know my grandnephew says he is severely resticted on the amount of time they can spend emailing and conferencing their loved ones.
Maybe he’s just not as impressed that you’re retired military as YOU are.
BTW, how are you enjoying the tax-payer subsidized pension?
Oooh, woah, damn, BEN HUIE!
What a kick-ass come-back! Perfect.
Man, that’s gotta sting . . .
THIS IS NOT TRACY
TRACY IS POSTING FOR SOLDEVVB BECAUSE OF TECHNICAL ISSUES
Andrew,
I served for 10 years and was decorated for serving in the first gulf war. You missed that one by a mile.
I am upset that a baby was ripped apart from his mother’s womb. If you see that mental image and get a warm fuzzy, well, that speaks for itself now doesn’t it.
P_Mom”"I” can’t raise the baby, and I know SHE can’t raise the baby. But I tell you, it’s awfully hard once you give birth to actually give it up. And that haunts you for life as well.”
I would surely hope that killing a baby would haunt you worse than knowing your child is alive and with a family that asked for it.
Damn, how callous are you to prefer death over giving someone the gift of life?
Her mother is a noodle for claiming to be pro-life and then saying “Well, I’m afraid of losing my daughter’s friendship if I push her one way or another.”
That is not a mother. That isn’t even a good friend. That is a noodle
And doesn’t JM get a 25% discount when he shops at the PX?
Sol,
I hope you find comfort for your loss and sadness.
Many emotions are very raw right now. Is there comfort you could seek from one another? What WAS doesn’t ever have to be what is in the future. Maybe if everyone moves forward with acceptance and love for what the future might bring, each of you will have a better chance of healing.
If you decide in your current grieving state to never again refer to him as your son or stepson it seems your relationship with both him and his mother could be jeopardized.
I don’t know how long you’ve accepted the joy and responsibilities of step Dad but since you have such respect for life I’m sure you will want to do what furthers the relationship and the guidance you agreed to offer your wife’s son.
You cannot change the past but you can help or hinder the future.
Again, I offer my deepest sympathy.
Ben,
If you are on active duty, you address all retired military members by his rank (if known) and all portions of the UCMJ as it apply to conduct and behavior.
It’s generally a good idea to be professional in any situation, as it can come back to bite you if you don’t.
I remember some GIs getting into it deep with Article 15s and Courtsmartials when they called cops they were playing softball game with all sorts of foul names.
They didn’t realize the Installation commander was watching the game.
Speaking of Eagles, I wonder if they can put an Eagle Cam on the Arkansas River. :)
Well, JM, what kind of respect do you show to retired miliatry Kerry?
Posted by: Ben Huie | January 22, 2007 at 02:28 PM
Throw away your ribbons and medals and you are throwing away your service record as far as I’m concerned.
Kerry is not retired military to my knowledge. He didn’t get the required 30 percent disability before he left active duty to qualify. I don’t think superficial skin wounds fit in the VA’s determination of disability eligible for medical retirement.
Testicles 7 freaking hours later, does not count.
As for you all talking about Andrew’s time online while overseas…yeah, nice nobody ever EVER said a word about when Nathan was posting on here. And he posted WAY more on what he felt about the war than Andrew has.
And my friends whose spouses were serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and UAE, Kosovo…they also got to be online for surprisingly long periods of time as well (depending on the electricity). I know because my friends would sit and wait for them to message them, and they also got to talk for hours.
So you just stop it now.
Scholarships for everyone in El Dorado, Arkansas. An interesting way to attack “brain drain”, don’t you think?
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16519893.htm
Thanks Andrew.You confirmed two things.
1)The Iraqi army will never be cohesive. They join long enough to get supplies, and then return to their militia.
2)The movie Jarhead was correct.Most of the down time is spent masturbating.
Wow, Philip B was right!You can no longer post the “F bomb”.
Where’s freedom freak?Sic-em, freak!
JM,
“Ask your Commander or First Shirt on what level of respect you are supposed to say to active duty and retired personnel….Kerry is not retired military to my knowledge. He didn’t get the required 30 percent disability before he left active duty to qualify.”
JM seems to be saying it’s okay for “retired personnel” to spit on people who served in the U.S. military, but are not now technically “retired military”.
IMO, everyone who served honorably, like Kerry, deserves our respect.
Cosmos,
Only those who give knowlingly give false testimony to Congress.
JM – allegation not proved.
Heartlander, and anyone else who may be interested:
Link is to a measured and thoughtful response to Mr. Murray’s three part series (really, to part 2, primarily) on education. I find somethings there which make sense to me, e.g., the car analogy; and some things there which do not make sense to me, e.g., his overall negativism to vocational education.
With reference to his take on vocational ed, I agree this might be less than beneficial, if one assumes that all voc ed does is provide training for one specific vocation; however, should not voc ed be as general ed in this respect, that is, while training for a vocation, enlarging the envelope and providing the necessary tools with which to make changes?
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=012207B
“JM – allegation not proved.”Posted by: Ben Huie | January 22, 2007 at 03:08 PM
Kerry said that there were atrocities committed in his area.
His boat Commander, His field Commander, the Admiral in Charge and more speficially Admiral Zumalt’s order’s prohibited any of these types of actions in the An Thoi area where Kerry served his duty.
Additionally, sailors and soldiers interviewed from the area recall of no free-firing without authorization. The Commander in charge of the areas said after an 18 month tour, there were no atrocities witnessed or reported by anyone in military or news reporters assigned to units. There were also no statements from Vietamese making any assertions that there were atrocities committed in the An Thoi area during the time Kerry served.
If Kerry saw atrocities committed, it was his duty to report them immediately. He did not. Being an officer, he carried a larger responsibility to report such actions committed to civilians.
Collateral damage actions happen in any war. One such action where Kerry was involved was the shooting of a farmer that supposably was intertwined with Viet Cong. I doubt anyone can prove or disprove that the farmer was complicit with the Viet Cong, but nevertheless, he was shot dead by the boat crew on which Kerry served.
It was in this action, Kerry leaped off the boat and shot the farmer(vietcong) in direct violation of orders. Supposably Kerry’s boat commander had already pumped some 50 caliber rounds into the farmer and there was no way he could have craweled to a hut to fetch more weapons as Kerry described. (if you ever held a 50 caliber slug in our hand, you would know why.)
Kerry, described the details differntly from what his Boat Commander described and somehow convinced the Commander in charged of boat units in that area that he deserved a Silver Star for shooting a wounded man. Go figure.
Sol, I am very sorry to hear about your story. I feel for the fathers who have their babies aborted, and for the grandparents and relatives. I really do. When I see a pregnant woman, I try to imagine taking out the contents of that bump and throwing it in the trash can, and it horrifies me. I’m sorry for your loss, you did everything you could. It was selfless of you to offer to raise the child, but she just didn’t want to carry it. I’m sorry.
If person A has something that person B needs to survive, and it won’t kill person A to give it to person B…is person A morally obligated to give it to B? Yes, I think so. If person A can save the life of person B by surrendering her bodily autonomy for 9 months, is she morally obligated to do so? Yes, I think so.Whenever you can save the life of another person and it probably won’t kill you, you are obligated to do so. I’d like to think I would, no hesitations, but luckily I’ve never been in that position.
However, is it the government’s role to enforce this moral obligation? I don’t think so…not unless we go around forcing people to donate organs or bone marrow…I guess this makes me pro-choice…but definitely not pro-abortion. Ok. Enough on a very messy topic.
test
For those that did, thank you for your support.
To Tracy, in your debt for helping me post. Never let it be said that Tracy didn’t help out someone (even a repulsive conservative) when they needed a hand.
For those interested, my wife knew what was happening and chose not to tell me. I feel like I have been betrayed beyond cheating. A child’s life was lost because of this. The relationship is over as she would rather leave than own up to the deceit.
I would never presume to tell another man how to conduct himself within his marriage, Sol, but take a step back for a day or two and allow yourself to take a deep breath.
Don’t give up on your wife and marriage just yet. Think it through. Let time give you a fresh perspective.
I suggested earlier that counseling would be a good choice – give it a try.
Also, as I posted before, you and your family will be in my prayers.
I hope that all of you find peace.
Sol,Do not forget that God’s ultimate message is love. Not just love for unborn children, but love for Everyone. This includes your wife, your son, the mother of the mother of the child, everyone.
Hang in there sol. I agree with WSC – perhaps all three of you need some help in sorting this all out.
Whatever you do, try to get some support, if only for your own sake.
JM,
“It was in this action, Kerry leaped off the boat and shot the farmer(vietcong) in direct violation of orders.”
I thought you served in Thailand. How did you personally witness what happened in Kerry’s unit?
‘Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry’s War RecordAd features vets who claim Kerry “lied” to get Vietnam medals. But other witnesses disagree — and so do Navy records.’http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/jkerry/jksilverstar.pdfhttp://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/PDFs/SeaLords270.pdf
Why would a “farmer”, with a “weapon” and dressed in VC clothes, be hiding in the “center of enemy positions”, 10 feet from where Kerry beached?
I’ve been reading some opinions on Opinion Line and Extra Opinion Line that some people are worried that when the tax for the arena comes to an end on Dec. 31, 2007 that something will be done to keep the tax going.I heard today from a very reliable source that the powers that be are secretly talking to the Ks. legislature to find a way not only to keep the tax on the books, but have the state share in some of the taxes that Sedg. County collects. The tax money will be set aside in a special fund for something else.Has anyone heard this?
Where were you at during Vietnam Cosmos?
And tell me, what do VietCong clothes look like?
The links I viewed differ from your link.
Each one of the men that served with Kerry, or was in his chain of Command refuted everything that Kerry did during that time.
One of them wrote a book and taunted Kerry on TV to sue him if anything was in the book was false.
So far, Kerry has not sued him because Kerry knows he lied.
Nice try, JM, nice try…. Your irrational hatred of Kerry certainly colors your thoughts.
Give it up!
Christ, get a life.
Nice try WS Clark,
I was responding to Cosmos.
Butt out or buck up.
JM,
Like you, I was NOT a personal eyewitness to Kerry’s ‘Nam events.
Are you claiming that William B. Rood and Jerry Leeds didn’t know what the VC wore? Your proof?
Why should Kerry sue over a book that contradicts itself?
“Butt out or buck up.”
Jeez, JM, are you going to try to get me BANNED from the blog again?
See a doctor, JM, they can help you.
Really.
There is medicine that he can prescribe for you.
Cosmos,
Yes I doubt William B. Rood and Jerry Leeds knew what clothing VC wore since Viet Cong wore civilian clothing same as the surrounding peasants.
Kerry was challenged to sue, he hasn’t and you made the assertions of contradictions, so what are they?
WS Clark
Again with the banned thing.
I’ll explain it to you one more time and try to pay attention.
You were under a troll name as JewBoy. I DID NOT KNOW JEWBOY and WSClark were the same person. I made my assertion to JEWBOY when I said that.
Number 1: Stop claiming you never trolled, which you have.
Number 2: Quit distoring the story and adding your BS to threads when this has already been explained.
If you want to taunt me at least try to be coherent about your taunts.
You can’t even make sense of yourself.
“Number 1: Stop claiming you never trolled, which you have.”
Show me where I have trolled JM.
BTW – Does the “M” stand for meltdown?
But more importantly, show me where I have trolled.
Jerk.
Troll – as in posting under someone else’ nic? Not likely.
Using another nic to address an issue with a known anti-semitic? Yes.
I am a quarter Jewish, JM. I am also partially African-American and Native.
Does that bother you? Am I less a human because I am multi-cultrual?
Trolling – using someone else’ nic. You accused me of trolling you to make you look bad.
You make yourself look bad.
You don’t need any help from me.
In fact, your meltdowns are becoming legendary.
But go right ahead and meltdown – it just proves my point.
Jewish Indian eh?
Why do I want to get a picture of Mel Brooks in my head of what you look like?
Wrong definition for a troll imo.
A Troll is someone who deliberately bumps a thread just to draw attention to themselves usualy disregarding the topic being discussed and for the purposes of using ad hominem statements.
And that fits you to a tea.
Making BS remarks that have nothing to do what I am discussing with someone else and your sole purpose is to taunt me and make personal attacks.
So Troll WS Clark, there is your title.
“Jewish Indian eh?”
Are you challenging my heritage, JM?
That would be just like you – a two faced SOB. I am surprised that you didn’t take a shot at the black portion of my heritage.
My granddaughter’s father is Native, making her half and a dash – would you like to take a shot at her also?
The understood definition for a troll is someone that uses some one else’ nic to make the trolled look bad. That is the def YOU used earlier, when you accused me and Capn’ of trolling you.
So, JM, go meltdown or whatever it is that you do.
Christ, JM, it’s little wonder that your wife left you. Your behavior on the blog is bad enough – I can hardly imagine what you are like in person on a daily basis.
JM,
If you want to believe that the “farmer”(sic) was a “teenager” wearing a “loincloth”, despite 2 eyewitnesses saying that’s false, go right ahead.
Contradictions? All you have to do is read carefully to spot them. But judging from your posts re global warming, you’re unable to read carefully.
Obviously your “version” is completely unbiased. /sarcasm off
‘Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry’s War Record’http://www.factcheck.org/article231.html
WS Clark,
You gonna doobie down now that you have been stressed out?
Your stash getting low? Call up your dealer and maybe he can get the snowmobile out to you and deliver some prime cut.
Or are you high already and getting the munchies. Better cook yourself some spam and eggs. Heavy on the Spam cause that’s all your doing on the blog anyway.
Cosmos,
You never did answer me. What kind of uniform did the farmer wear that William B. Rood and Jerry Leeds could identify him as Viet Cong?
“You gonna doobie down now that you have been stressed out?”
Childish, JM, like most of your posts. And the term is “toke up” not doobie down. And hardly anyone refers to them as doobies anymore, mostly it is “smoke” or “blunts.”
But anyway, JM, you might try some little blue pills to add some hyraulic fluid to that low pressure pump of yours. The ladies prefer that the pump qualifies as a high pressure unit.
You lost one wife already – get some help before you try for wife number two.
Okay DA ClarkYeah, that works, KSGolfnut was right.
So tell us, JM, your wife left you for a younger man. Was that because you could not deliver the goods when the order was placed?
KSGolfnut, JM, you mean the guy that did not have the cajones to show up for lunch with P Mom?
Dang, JM, you aim pretty low when choosing your heroes.
WS Clark
YOu are just spamming now. Why not use my email provided here if you want to know about me.
Or do you have the cajones to email me?
JM,
Where did I say it was a “uniform”?
Why does your version claim he was a “teenager” in a “loincloth”, but two eyewitnesses say he was an adult in VC clothes?
Damn right I do – check the box.
WS,That’s a foul man. Bringing up a divorce when that is furthest from the topic. Not picking sides in the fight, but c’mon brother. That is just too low.
“Bringing up a divorce when…”
But you’re okay with JM attacking my heritage, SLVB?
Awww ClarkieSaying Jewish Indian eh is disparing your heritage how?
Explain that to me. You admitted to being Jewish, Native American and Black.
How did I disparage you?
And don’t use the Indian excuse, I grew up in Oklahoma and it is a common phrase, plus I have relatives that work at the Kaw Nation in Oklahoma.
Go ahead, I’m waiting.
Tell the truth, you just wanted to pick a fight. Heh
Cosmos,
Again, describe to me exactly what VC clothes look like.
“Jewish Indian eh?Why do I want to get a picture of Mel Brooks in my head of what you look like?”
“So tell us, JM, your wife left you for a younger man. Was that because you could not deliver the goods when the order was placed?”
Personal opinion, but the first looks like a weak attempt at humor, the second looks like a cheap shot. Again, my opinion.
“And don’t use the Indian excuse, I grew up in Oklahoma and it is a common phrase, plus I have relatives that work at the Kaw Nation in Oklahoma.”
Jeez, JM, that makes you a real friend of the Native Americans – almost as much a friend as General Custer.
I imagine that Mel Brooks’ parody of Hollywoods use of Jews as NA actors was kind of lost on you.
Jews as Indians is not funny.
Native people have dignity and standing that apparently is lost on you.
Of course, you missed the Jew-Indian joke in Blazing Saddles.
Jerk.
BTW – Check your e-mail – you threw down, now back it up.
Thanks for the email Clarkie.I now have your IP address so I can trace you. :)
Don’t blow a gasket now Clarkie, you’ll go into convulsions.
Go for it, JM, but I am not quite sure what you are going to do with an IP address.
Ya’ going to report me to the blog police?
Jerk.
Go meltdown in private, JM. We know that you are alone and lonely.
“Don’t blow a gasket now Clarkie, you’ll go into convulsions.”
Hmmmmm…. I think everyone here knows that JM is the King of Meltdowns on the blog.
But I will laugh at you, JM.
BTW – You did not reply to my e-mail. What, no balls?
I have to apologize to the other bloggers here tonight. Tonight is my night to occupy JM. Law enforcement has asked us to keep him occupied so that he does not harm anyone else in the general populous.
Everyone has to do their part to maintain the peace.
Shhhhhh – don’t tell JM that I am just doing my job!
I agree that WS is hitting too low there.
But JM’s racial slur was plenty low too. And his maddening “day is night” routine can drive ya right up the wall.
The blog needs more aggressive moderating. People kill each other in bars for less that what they let fly on this blog.
Some of my posts got pulled today apparently for using the big eff word.
Okay, fair enough. You won’t hear me whining about it.
Yup, Clark, somebody’s got to keep JM honest.
Unfortunately, he’s completely dishonest so it’s impossible to keep him honest.
Well, Capn’ I am assuming that JM was an adult (?) when he married and when he divorced. You might also remember that Nutz tried to insult me because I am divorced.
As an adult, I assume responsibility for my part in my divorces. That was between two consenting adults. My mistakes for marrying both of them – my mistakes for the divorces.
BTW – I received custody of the children from both my marriages.
My heritage, however, is not a product of my actions as an adult. I had no choice as to my multi-cultural background, not that it is an issue for me.
I take responsibility for my failures in marriage.
JM’s wife left him for a younger man – presumably one that threw a better fastball while on the mound.
That’s not my issue – he chose to insult my heritage – I chose to insult his failure as a husband.
And he is still a jerk.
JM even accused me of “sulking”, when I pointed out one of his falsehoods on the ‘Senate prepared to push back on surge’ thread. Weird…
For the record, JM did not respond to my e-mail – the e-mail that he “requested.”
What a jerk.
alright wake up folks, mama is back
test test
Nice snow candidate political mom.
Um…..You were not the only one amusing yourself with the precipitation.
I’ve seen alotta things im my time.
Today I saw an 8 foot snowman in the back of a very large truck. I wish I had a picture.
When I say smowman, I do MEAN snow MAN.
There is no polite way to say this. The snowman was anatomically correct, very well endowed and in a state of obvious….. arousal! He had rakes for arms and a rather large smile.
I am not done.
On the same trip I saw in a yard an obvious interpretation of the entire male organ ALSO constructed in snow. I am at something of a loss to understand how this particular sculpture was coping with……gravity.
I would never imagine I would see such things in Wichita let alone Kansas. I am not sure just how to interpret this display of…..talent.
LOL JR. Ah fun in the snow.
Great now you’ve given me perverse ideas for my next heavy snow.
Oh Boy! Can’t wait for the WEBlog meetup after this miserable display of childish crap.
P-Mom: thanks for the distraction
In regards to andrews use of blogging while in Irag. I might remind everyone that Nathan is also in Irag and makes use of the Internet and this blog all the time. Some soldiers have better access to computers than others depending on their jobs others bring their own from home.
Right, Dingus. It depends on where they are.
For some, they only have a few hours during the day, and the lines for computers is long if they don’t have their own laptop. My youngest pm’d with a friend who was over there and came home last fall. He was in Baghdad and had plenty of time to spend pming with her, although it was usually late at night for him.
Sol,
I’m very sorry for your loss. Any one of my three grandkids could have been aborted. My daughters chose not to. I may be pro-choice, but I would have talked myself blue if they had considered having even one. Please don’t blame yourself. You did everything you could. Hindsight may have you feeling differently, but I believe God or whomever will take that into account.
On the other side of the coin, I know someone who has dealt with having not been either aborted or relinquished by a mother who had the opportunity to do so and kept the child for spite. That isn’t pretty, either.
Ian sure is testy today.
This is a great web site. I have some great web pages myself if you are interested to share. But I should not go on about my site too much, that is not fair, right?
I admire you on the willingness to share this info with others – good luck!