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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Jan. 21, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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80 Comments
Just for once, no trolls, no stalkers, no lurkers, no phonies, no fools, no morons, no idiots, no mathematically challenged deniers, no racists, no willfully ignorant morons…….
Just honest, intelligent debate, please.
OK, see you guys tomorrow.
Gee it sure got quiet in here all the sudden.
OK here is one to start out and it is shocking it has not been brought up yet, Hillary Clinton announcing her Presidential Campaign. Though she is a political animal, having been around it for a good part of her life. I have to admit it caused a shutter when I saw it. Even more frightening to me was the polls showing her favored over Edwards and Obama. Sorry to my Democrat friends here, but Hillary is in the same league as Ted Kennedy. Fit to be a bride’s maid but not the bride, it could be a bit of Hangover from the years ago of a general hatred for Bill.
To get it out of the way, no it is not because she is a woman there are several women that I could vote for.And no Condi is NOT one of them, she has set to close to the skunk and wears an offensive smell. If cornered I would have a hard time saying what it is about Hillary that is so offensive to me. I guess just too many sharp edges, too liberal, too conservative. Of course I would hard pressed to say why I like Obama either.
But to my Democratic friend I say, to put Hillary up is to drive many swing voters away from the ticketed.Upon the announcement I started looking at the Republican side a little harder. Otherwise saying if Hillary get the nomination then it may just become more a choice between the lesser of two evils. Edwards would be the safer bet, even Obama could draw swing voters as far as Moderates from both parties.
Hillary has a better chance then Brownback, but also leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. You won in 06 or in reality this country won, but I have to warn you. Making Hillary the party’s candidate for President will only serve as an example of how often the real enemy of the Democratic party is not the Republicans it is the Democratic party. You have a natural talent for pulling defeat from a victory in the passed. Please do not be confused about the 06 elections, many of us Republicans voted Democrat not so much because we like the candidate or the Democratic party. But because we needed your help to ouster those that stole away our party while we unfortunately slept. It was not about which party was better but rather saving this country from its self. Yes there is a real good chance that the next President will be a Democrat, many of my party also have set to close to the skunk.
THAT IS unless you pull a defeat from this victory.
Ok, I’m keeping my promise even though I had something really good to tell writerdog about a poll I read, that’ll teach me.
Delores, please do not remain silent. LoL if I did every time I have said I would not speak out. Most times I would never say anything! Now if you were to quote Ann ” Glad I have a flashlight. its so dark with my head up here!” Coulter. I have already read her today, but if it is not slanted to far one way or another… Go for it. I would love to see some talking points on this.
DA,If you want that, then you can’t participate.
Ok writerdog you twisted my arm.
The poll I read said that all Democrats would beat McCain, but not Giuliani, with the exception of Edwards. That poll was taken before Brownback declared. Since polls change daily that could be different today.
That was an interesting article about teachers dressing like the students and wanting to be treated as a professional. If the teacher cannot dress as a professional and still relate to the students then they probably have other issues.
School Board member Sarah Skelton along with Union President Paul Babich obviously thinks you have to dress like a slob to relate to the students. Babich thinks we should just get over it because people dress in T-shirts, shorts, jeans and sweats. Skelton thinks the kids relate better to the teacher when they dress like their students.
Why are they thinking? Students need to learn to relate to authority and that is part of the educational environment and has been for a long time. Teachers say they are professionals, want to be treated as professional and paid as professionals but they do not want to dress like a professional. I just don’t get it. A child needs to learn how to deal with adults and authority. It’s pretty hard to consider your teacher an authority figure when he or she is dressed no better than the student.
It is not about being above the students. It is about showing them what a professional is and how to relate accordingly. Then when they join the workforce they are better prepared just as the people from WSU said. We have had the problem for many years where we keep thinking that all adults have go to be able to lower themselves to the level of a child. Our teachers are better than that.
Casual dress is more common in the business world today but it is a business casual not a work in my yard have a picnic casual. It does not mean that you have to have an expensive suit. The men could wear nice dress slacks, a button shirt with a tie. The women could wear dresses more but there are very nice looking outfits to be made with dress pants, blouses, jackets etc.
You do not have to be a child to relate to a child. That is part of teaching. Learning to deal with authority is also part of teaching. Learning to deal with adults that are different than you is also part of teaching.
If teachers want to be considered professionals then act like a professional.
sts has obviously never been to a high tech company in Austin. Come in there with a suit and you will NOT get hired.
Geez, do we ever do anything in kansas but go back to the future?
When I was in high school, civilization as we know it was going to end because students demanded the right to wear “pantsuits” to school.
Then it was dress slacks. Then finally the “adults” in charge realized they were fighting a losing battle, and just let kids dress the way they wanted.
Same song, second verse. All would be well with the world if women still wore dresses and men wore hats and skinny black ties.
Nevemind that johnny cant read….
yep, in freeperland, if we could just turn back the hands of time to oh, say, the 1800’s, life would again be good.
We could all pump and haul water, kill our food, keep rape and child abuse secret, and blacks and gays would know their places. heheheheh
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×3165392
Cant fit into the new world? Work like hell to bring back the “good” ol days.
I especially love linking to DU since I KNOW the righties wont click.
TOPIC CHANGE:
Check this article on Brownback’s bid:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/brownback2008_2
He said this:”Search the record of history. To walk away from the Almighty is to embrace decline for a nation,” Brownback said. “To embrace Him leads to renewal, for individuals and for nations.”
Right… So we have fallen away from God that is the source of all of our troubles… If politicians actually believe this it is no wonder things are so bad. They are praying instead of doing something about it!
He sounds pathetic. He talks about abortion, detroying the current income tax law, etc… All crap Bush talked about and did nothing about.
I hope this cookie-cutter gets the nom, because he’d be doomed.
TOPIC CHANGE:
Check this article on Brownback’s bid:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/brownback2008_2
He said this:”Search the record of history. To walk away from the Almighty is to embrace decline for a nation,” Brownback said. “To embrace Him leads to renewal, for individuals and for nations.”
Right… So we have fallen away from God that is the source of all of our troubles… If politicians actually believe this it is no wonder things are so bad. They are praying instead of doing something about it!
He sounds pathetic. He talks about abortion, detroying the current income tax law, etc… All crap Bush talked about and did nothing about.
I hope this cookie-cutter gets the nom, because he’d be doomed.
Ian
Samunel Clemens would NOT approve of your out of context use of his words.
Writerdog, there is no reason not to elect Hillary Clinton. She’s not as left as you seem to think she is. President Clinton ran this country better than any president in the recent past, and I want that again. It isn’t politics for me Dog, it’s really how I feel.
Don’t you understand, that almost ALL the far right is going to paint every democrat in the same brush?
Good Point PM.My problem with Hillary is she seems to never say what she really thinks just like Bill. They have an established system that seems to work, and it is based on polling/opinion data.I have no doubt that she would do a great job, but I can’t say that she will get my vote in the primaries.
Who was the last senator to be elected President? Was it JFK? That is a pretty bad track record and the Dems front runners are all Senators. Does anyone think that new blood could cause a massive shift in the primaries like it has before? I read that Gov. Richardson (D, N.M.) announced he was running as well.
I’m madder than hell that she threw her hat into the ring, even though I knew she would. The dems need to come up with someone who is electable, this country is way too prejudice to elect a woman or a black man at this point in time no matter how qualified they may be, especially in the South. Didn’t they learn anything from Kerry? They need to come up with a white male that at least pretends he’s in touch with what the average Americans face everyday. If they don’t do this, the repubs will get it again. This is about the good guys winning, not some litmus test for diversity.
I have nothing against any of the democratic candidates, well except maybe Al Sharpton…but I’m not even sure he is running. I just saw that on a website somewhere.
I really like Biden, but he really might be too far left, he’s certainly farther left than Hillary.
Hillary has instant credo in the other nations, and that is what we have to have right now- someone who can get in there and already have an established relationship to repair our image abroad.
I think it’s very very sad that you feel that way Mary. And here all this time I thought you said women were equals in America.
We have THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES who have elected female presidents. We should be ashamed to even think that a woman doesn’t stand a chance, or a black!
Yeah Mary… Tis…Tis…A recent poll said that 90% of Americans would vote for a qualified Minority or Woman for President. And like 59% said they would vote for a homosexual person!
It is about damned time for a woman and or a minority in the white house. How about an athiest too? That sort of fresh blood is just what America’s image needs.
I’m for Obama. He seems well spoken, highly intelligent, and mostly honest. And he has about as much experience as Kennedy did when he ran.
Brownback is batsh*t crazy insane, but that’s the Republic Party’s base, so don’t discount his ability to do well in Iowa (where Pat Robertson won the caucuses in 1988) and South Carolina (where Strom Thurmond might be dead, but he’s gettin’ better).
This is really a 2008 race for Brownback to get on the ticket. George WMD Bush has screwed up so royally there’s no chance that the Republic Party can win in 2008. But Brownback as the 2008 Veep candididate will find himself a frontrunner in 2012.
Still, I wish someone would tell Sam “the Sham” that the office to which he aspires asks that he put his hand on the Bible and swear to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, not the other way around.
Where do I buy my Hillary/Obama 08 shirt?
I might just vote for Hillary if it will make Bill Clinton the first dude.
It will keep editorial writers and political cartoon satirists employed for four solid years at least.
:)
Nice MoneyHawk! LMAO!
You know JM, in the old days the opposite of “Lady” was “Sir”, “Lord”, “Duke”, etc… I don’t see First Sir as sticking but First Lord would drive Republicans apeshit!
But would they call him? First Gentleman? First Husband? who knows…
LOL I just signed onto the official Hillary website, and I’m going to collect all your emails and add you to her email list HAHA.
Hey…I’d LOVE to see a woman or a black guy in the White House!! But I’m being realistic, just because someone says they’ll vote for a woman or a minority doesn’t mean that’s what they’ll do in the voting booth. If you think that the average American is ready to accept a woman or a black as leader fo the free world, then you’re being pretty idealistic. I’d LOVE to see it happen, but unfortunately we live in the real America, a country full of prejudice people who vote.ALL I want is for the Democrats to come up with someone who has more than a snowball’s chance in hell of winning. I’m more interested in the Demos hanging onto their power than seeing my (or your) dream of a woman or a minority president become reality. Let’s get our priorities straight for the sake of our country’s survival.If Hilary gets the nomination, of course I’d vote for her…but to be honest, I’ve never voted for anyone who has won yet.
HAHA! Found your shirts:
http://www.cafepress.com/buy/clinton%20obama/-/cfpt2_/cfpt_/source_searchBox/copt_
I like the “Da Bama” one.
The snowball you refer to is an avalanche. Short of Jesus flying out of the sky and annointed Bush emporer, the Reps are finished in the White House. They primaries will be the real election.
Well in Kansas? My vote for President probably doesn’t mean anything anyway. Only time it ever did was that stupid vote for Reagan in ‘84.
Sorry. I was young and dumb.
Hillary? I can’t. Bush, Clinton, bush, Clinton is just too much like a 2 family monarchy for my taste. I just can’t do it. If it’s Hillary? I’ll agree to trade my vote for a green party voter in a state where it is closer.
Obama? Same thing.Richardson? Same thing.Kucinich or Biden I like.
My personal pick would be Al Gore. But I would not blame him if he does not run.
Honestly, it’s anyone’s game now. Kerry came out of nowhere in Iowa. It will probably be the same thing again.
The snow is perfect for a snow-woman president today.
I did just build a snowman in the front yard- and I really am going to go put up a sign on it…Hillary for President. lol.
See how long that lasts…
Hehe, I know my one neighbor is a liberal, and the other ones are Brownback lovin types.
Wonder how many snowballs it’ll endure lol.
Too many jokes, P Mom……
“The snow is perfect for a snow-woman president today.”
Does your snow woman lean to the left or to the right?
Did you make a first snow man?
Why is the snow man smiling? He heard the snow blower coming.
Yada, yada……
Hillary will get my vote if she gets the nomination. Until then, I will be working in favor of Obama, but it is not likely that he can overcome a lot of (unimportant) issues.
Right, I got one of those FW emails that “pointed out” that Obama was black, his mother is an atheist, and his father and stepfather were Muslim. Then it said he went to Catholic school and Madrassa in Indonesia and he was somehow converted to extremism by his step-father.(I will mention Obama said himself he thought his step-father was an atheist by the time his mother married him. And why the hell would an extremist Muslim be a liberal in the first place?)
What does any of this have to do with being President? Nothing with the job, but sadly, everything in getting the job. They’re all intolerant hypocrites, but they can vote…
It looks grim, but I’m pulling for him as well.
I agree with Mary on her comments about Hillary. I have nothing against the woman (HC), but my gut feeling tells me she’s too conservative. Bill was conservative, too, but he used it to his advantage. Because I’m able to see Hillary’s voting record in the Senate, I hesitate to back her. And, like Mary, I don’t want the family dynasties to continue. However, if Hillary were to get the Dem’s nod, she would get my vote.
As for Obama, he doesn’t have the experience needed for the job. VP would be much better for him. Edwards? Hmmmm. I like him, but… Biden? I’ve liked what I’ve seen, but again, there are some things I’m not sure about where he’s concerned. I think I’ll go with the dark horse for the primaries and root for Richardson.
The Republican crop of candidates is truly pitiful. I used to like McCain, until he became so weak. Guiliani is a joke. They whined about Clinton’s morality, so what’s so great about Guiliani? He’s just as bad, if not worse. Nope, unless the Repubs can get Jesus to run, there isn’t one I would vote for.
All the above is only my humble opinion. Feel free to bash. *grin*
RD – saw Richardson today on the news. He looks interesting. Hagel could be VERY interesting on the GOP side.
Funny how this guilt by association routine is going Barack Obama – his Daddy this, his Momma that, his Step Daddy was…… yada , yada.
Grand Daddy (Prescott) Bush collaborated with the Nazis prior to and during the early days of WW II. That fact seems to be of no interest to Bush fans. If the candidate is a Democrat, then all the family connections are pertinent, but it is off limits if they are a Republican.
Not quite off limits WSC – remember the ‘push polls’ about McCain and his illegitimate black child in South carolina?
Let’s go back to 1984 to get an idea of the situation today. Reagan in ‘84 was virtually unbeatable. No one really believed that a Democrat could win in that election. The Dems threw up Walter Mondale as a sacrificial lamb and then tried to trick out the ticket with Geraldine Ferraro. That whole process failed miserably, as we all know.
Fast forward to 2008 – given the astoundingly low poll numbers of Bush, the Sequel, the Republicans probably do not stand a chance in the general election. The election will go to the Democrats unless they Kerry-out and truly blow the opportunity.
The Republicans will probably throw out a sacrificial lamb like the Dems did in ‘84. All of the strong Republican candidates will sit this one out, hoping for a better shot in ‘12 or ‘16. They may toss out a McCain, knowing that he is old and probably not electable. They could toss out Rudy, knowing that he has way too much baggage to win the general election. Legitimate Republican candidates like Hagel will wait for a better opportunity.
The possible exception would be Romney, but it is doubtful that a Massachusetts Republican can win the general election, especially given that he is a Mormon.
It should be a straight shot for the Democrats in 2008. We can only hope that the specter of the Kerry fiasco does not trip them up.
Not quite off limits WSC – remember the ‘push polls’ about McCain and his illegitimate black child in South carolina?
WS Clark
Please explain your version of Prescott Bush and the Nazis.
Exactly how did his working at a Dutch Owned bank before WWII make him a Nazi sympathizer.
I await your story hopefully with great detail on how this Nazi association came about.
Well, here are just three links that prove my point concerning Prescott Bush….
The Google – an amazing tool for the intellectually curious.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2
Hillary lost my vote when she voted for the war.
Kerry already showed that a war supporter can’t win.
Why would we want to make the same mistake twice?
That’s what the CONservatives do . . . Bush 1 and then Bush 2.
Lighten up, you’all. Open this link, read the Calvin and Hobbes Snowman cartoons, get back to me.
If you don’t laugh at these, you don’t have a pulse.
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/calvin.html
Interesting links WS Clark.
Here’s what wikipedia says about the Nazi link to Prescott Bush.
“There are unsubstantiated rumors concerning Prescott Bush’s associations with the Nazi party. The Anti-Defamation League has stated, “Rumors about the alleged Nazi ‘ties’ of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated.” [2] The rumors began with extreme right-wing attacks on George H.W. Bush during his 1980 presidential run and were renewed during his 1988 run.”
There were also many businesses and banks that had investments in Germany before the war and many German companies that had investmetns in the US. All of these were seized by the U.S. Government. In the Bush’s case, the funds by Prescott Bush and his Brother-in-law George Herbert Walker were not released until 1961.
Ok how old is too old to really get into the music and dance like you did as a teen?
I learned my lesson on headbanging a few years back, yep, too old for that now- I felt like I was going to have a stroke.
I want my big hair back. I think maybe that counterbalances the force inside brain going forward and back. See, we had a reason for that hair!
I was jamming on Metallica last night and my daughter just laughed and rolled her eyes. My husband laughs at me too. What’s the deal? He’s as old as I am.
It’s so unfair :(- a conspiracy I tell ya.
P Mom, I think that once you hit 100 you should ease up a little bit.
Until then, rock on!
Serious congratulation to Lovie Smith, head coach of the Chicago Bears, the FIRST black head coach in the NFL to lead his team to the Super Bowl!!!
The Patriots are playing the Colts in a few minutes. If the Colts win, it will put TWO black head coaches in the Championship game. Tony Dungy is the HC of the Colts.
Sounds great, but the Pats are going to win!
PMom, I’m in heaven, my grandkids are really into the Beatles. They can’t believe that I was only 11 yrs old when the “fab four” started the British invasion.
GO BEARS!
The Beatles are icons that span the generations. My friends were all big into the Beatles too- I think it was the LSD. I think the music means different things to different people. To me, it all reminds me of a time.
A lot of their music is timeless, I was a Beatle NUT when I was young. I used to pray that God would let me marry Paul McCartney! I’ve seen him twice in concert and he still looks good to me. My kids got me the DVD of his last concert tour for Xmas, his best concert as far as I’m concerned, because he performed a lot of the Beatle music, not just his stuff.Now that he’s getting divorced, I might still have a chance, afterall, if he lusted after a woman with one leg…surely he could be attracted to a middle aged woman with a generous butt!
Did anyone read this article? Given the Brilliant response by SRS, you have to wonder. If they have to question whether hot water is required for showers, how can they be trusted to make any decisions? These are the same people that “take care of” abused children? No wonder the system is broken! I think serious performance evaluations need to be given by a neutral agency. If you fail, you’re fired. The open positions could be filled by people with common sense. Give ‘em a manual and some ojt. Bet we’d get a more effective SRS that way.
Sorry – the quote I used didn’t post. It was SRS response to the report on Larned hospital where srs wanted to know if there was a regulation that required hot water for showers. Idiots!!!!
When I was 16 I was in juvenile detention in Hutchinson, and we had NO hot water in our showers, ever- I don’t even know if they were hooked up to the hot water. And nobody ever seemed to care.
I think they moved the building to another place now, but I’ll never forget how cruel I thought that was.
Do they care? I often thought not much when I was in the system.
Mary I’d think twice about marrying Paul McCartney. His ex says he was abusive.
Mary, John was my favorite. I can even remember when Ringo’s first son was born. His name is Zack, and the DJ said he had a Ringo nose.
My oldest daughter (26) enjoys Aerosmith and bands of that era, although I never listened to them much. She “discovered” them when she was in high school. And (get this) she’s a HUGE Elvis fan. I never was, but she and a friend’s daughter dragged us to tour Graceland.
None of my kids are Beatles fans, but they don’t have any problem recognizing the music. They grew up on it and all the oldies from the 60’s.
I also like ABBA and (uh-hem) Barry Manillow.
I’d really like to go see that musical in Wichita based on the ABBA songs.
Really really I would.
Abba was the greatest!!!!I saw Barry Manillow at Century years ago, great entertainer
All right. I am trying to watch football and make dinner at the same time and you folks are singing the praises of Barry Manilow….
This is getting way too weird for me.
Manilow is like, um, soggy French Toast or lukewarm beer or orange juice with no pulp or nude photos of Roseanne Barr.
This is just way too much.
Nah, I think Paul married a nut case, I can’t believe my hero would be abusive!! He’s even a huge advocate for animal rights and a committed vegetarian. He could eat veggie burgers in my bed anytime!
OHHHHHHHHHH Mandy, well you came and you gave without taking..But I sent you away ohhhhhhhhhhhh Mandy
Her name was lola, she was a showgirl.
BWA! Did you all see Phill Kline’s proselytizing at the Operation Rescue rally tonight on the news? WAH!
He sure sounds more like a holy roller preacher than a politician!
WSC – I could handle the soggy french toast, the orange juice or even the warm beer … but Roseann Barr! THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS!
Mary – I’m inclined to agree …
I liked the Beatles but my favorite was Paul Revere and the Raiders. I wanted to be their groupie! And I like Barry too. I was really sad to find out he was gay because I thought he was so cute.
You people have it all wrong.
THE best music was from the 80’s.
late 60’s, 70’s 80’s…the 90’s sucked, but it’s starting to get better. I really like some of the music coming out lately.
We could do without WHAM! though.
Where’s my boyfriend testicles tonight? He should be back home by now.
heh.
Actually I converted to Country music. In the 80’s I was too busy raising my kids and going to school to worry about music.
I converted to country in the 90’s. And now back again.
Ick country music!
Country music has been selling folks on the concept of noble suffering for the master and unjustified patriotism since the early 70’s. There being just a few exceptions that are quickly squashed. Like the Dixie Chicks.
P_mom,
Mama Mia was showing on Broadway when I was in NYC in ‘03. I didn’t see it, but a few friends did and said it was great. I wasn’t an ABBA fan. There was something about the balance of the volume of the vocals and the music that bothered me. Of course, that doesn’t mean they weren’t good. Too each his/her own taste. ;)
Brenda, I saw Paul Revere and the Raiders twice at the Cotillion, waaaaay back. In fact, I have a b&w pic I took of them with my Polaroid Swinger. Good concerts, both of them.
JR, do you mean to say you wouldn’t take my 90’s collection of country music CD’s? LOL I was a fan there for a while. Now not so much. I went back to oldies.
Right now, I’m listening to James Taylor.
I know a very long suffering Colts fan very happy his team is going to the SuperBowl.
Bears vs Colts, pretty even.
Another friend long ago also made a crypic comment..”Superbowls are always close..”
That lead to many years of ridicule because many SuperBowls are blowouts.
What Tony Dungy has done… with Lovie Smith, coach of the Bears a former coach under him at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to play against in the SuperBowl.
Gave Herm Edwards, now coach of the Chiefs, a job.
34 year old, Mike Tomlin a job with the Bucs years ago under Dungy, got the head coaching gig with the Pittsburgh Steelers!
I’m sure the Super Bowl for Dungy after a long road in NFL coaching, doesn’t take away from the pain of his son committing suicide last year, from depression.
It’s only a game after all.
Ben,
re: Richardson
I was impressed with him when Kerry campaigned in NM back in ‘04. He’s definitely a dark horse, but has the advantage of being a governor instead of congressman. Time will tell.
Bill Richardson is obviously the best candidate I have seen coming forth for the 08 election.
He has a great deal of international diplomatic experience. Being the United States Ambassador to the United Nation. Also being a former Congressman, and Secretary of Energy. He has a good solid educational background with a Masters in Law and Diplomacy.
Being the current Governor of New Mexico and a pro-business Democrat with many ties to the Democratic Party circles. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the Democratic pick.
So far he is my pick and I’ve been saying that for several years, because I’ve been watching him.
I’m not looking for a savior like most weak people are doing with other politicans like Hillary, Obama, and Edwards. I’m looking for somebody that best fits the position with the skills and knowledge to do the job well and that person is Bill Richardson.
The talking points of the left is that he is a dark horse. We are still far away from the primaries and I wouldn’t call him a dark horse. He’ll give the saviors a run for their money.
Case in point! Nobody knew who Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton was before they became Presidents.
“I’m not looking for a savior like most weak people are doing with other politicans like Hillary, Obama, and Edwards.”
Damn Joe, had me all ready to agree with you, say good morning,and all that happy horse-shit…Till we got to that line.It just made you sound like another partisan hack.
No Tracy it isn’t partisan! It’s the truth.