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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Jan. 18, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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187 Comments
As I review the thread below, “No revote necessary on the arena,” I notice about 95% of bloggers who weighed in are for a revote. This shows citizen voters were not fooled by the county commissioners and insiders who pushed for the project.
Of course, Joe Williams, about the only arena cheerleader left in Wichita, who is apparently unaffiliated with the project (as far as I know), has yet to understand the enormity of the real waste of tax money by this project … or its real purpose … “from the many, to the few,” an old leftist slogan.
Thanks everybody for weighing in.
Please communicate these thoughts to the three holdover county commissioners and our state legislators who can actually take action to reverse this rediculous situation.
While I did not “weigh in” yesterday I will only comment that finally a few folks are steping up and saying what many have been thinking for months. It is obvious to me at least that anytime the powers that be make promises they have no intention of keeping, ie the parking garage, we must look no further to find the fingers in the proverbial cookie jar. This project can have no title accept future White elephant #8 or #10 whatever the bailed out count happens to be this month, not to say anything about the astronomicial cost to build in the first place
Over the last 10 years, Kansas has averaged a little over 100 murders per year. Yet, this Jodie Sanderholm murder has gotten more media attention than almost all of them combined. Why?
Yes, it is a tragedy, but does beauty and race make her death any more tragic than the 100 others? Does a less attractive black man deserve any less attention?
I am not belittling her death or her family’s loss. My point is the media bias over age/beauty is appalling.
Looks like the Republicans in the Senate have killed ethics reform by attaching a provision to give their maniacal leader Bush an unrelated line item veto power. The only way to reform is through the Senate by removing the corrupt republicans next election.
I agree, there was a little four year old girl that was de capitated by her stepfather last week, and there was only a little bleep buried in the newspaper. It was in Missouri, but if it was a beautiful young white girl it would have been all over the national news.It’s sickening how some murders are so sensationalized and others are all but ignored.
So, j wink sez that since 95 percent of the bloggers are against the arena, that shows… something. Anybody wish to ponder that leap of logic?Does this mean that 95 percent of America are left wing nut jobs, also? That is what one could suppose after reading this blog.
A good comment this early morning … just having driven Kellogg across town I want to say that the City has done a good job in dealing with last weeks ice/sleet storm. Things were a bit ‘interesting’ last friday night but crews got on it quick and hard. At least where I have been driving the main roads have all been clear.
My residential street – and my driveway! – are ice-skating rinks but that is NOT the city’s problem. Neighborhood kids have been having a field day in our winter wonderland. While I have a few hundred feet of that slick that is no problem – my main roads are clear.
To the road crews: WELL DONE!
Deutsche Bank Swap Makes Pennsylvania Taxpayers Lose (Update1)
By Martin Z. Braun
Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) — The third-poorest city in Pennsylvania is a lot poorer because of a 28-year bet on interest rates that already has gone awry.
The Reading, Pennsylvania, school district, which has 18,323 students, this week must pay $230,000 to Deutsche Bank AG, Germany’s largest bank, because it’s on the losing side of a wager that long-term interest rates will rise faster than short- term interest rates. In April, the board rushed approval of the so-called interest rate swap in eight days after its adviser said the transaction may earn the district $16 million by 2034.
While Reading’s taxpayers are liable for the loss, bankers and advisers already have pocketed $1 million in fees for arranging the swap, enough to buy 11 Mercedes-Benz S-550 sedans. This week’s payment to Deutsche Bank would have covered the school district’s monthly utility bill.
“It was all done in a real hurry,” said Keith Stamm, the only member of the board to vote against the deal. “The whole board is so desperate to try to find a way to raise money, they see this floated in front of them as a big-time amount of money and they want to go forward with it.”
I think it’s unfair to say that the media only talks about white pretty girls who go missing.
The missing little black girl from Wichita, she too had a lot of media attention. And I’m aware that she has still not been found yet.
I think what makes the whole thing more newsworthy- is the sensationalism of the case OR if someone is missing- missing means there is still a sense of urgency.
Oh and enema- I think we’ve got a good representation of neocon, liberal and moderates on this board.
pmom-Get real.
woody keeps whining about being blinded by hate for GW.Ya’ know woody, I’ve never met GW.I’m sure he a good father, husband, son, and brother.And probably quite a few more good things about him that I’ll never know about.I’ll bet he’s a hell of a lot of fun at a big beer drink!(strangely, I kinda’ respect that)
The fact is, I don’t hate the guy.I don’t know him.Look at it from a business standpoint.If you were employing him, would you allow him to bankrupt your business before intervening?Well, woody?woodja?
Ben,you know you’ve had some shitty weather when you look forward to…35 degrees!
TRACY – I have lived up north – this is nothing.
Actually, at least in the neighborhood, I look more at ‘winter wonderland’ than ‘cold and dreary’. I suspect the kids playing in it helps.
Good points Tracy,
look at it this way fleet,If GWB was a non union self employed plumber who listened to rush and you hired him 4 years ago to fix a leak in your pipes.
Would he still be on the job{after 4 years of work} with the first floor of your house flooded and a half a trillion dollar cost over run?
Dot,you’re version is much more snarky.Well done.
Hey all you Phill Kline haters out there. Have you seen that the State Ethics Commission has determined that He committed no violation of campaign ethics rules in the use of State computers?Darn the luck. Want to bet that the lawsuit by the disgruntled ex. JOCO County Attorney employees will also get thrown out too?One other thing is becoming clear too. The most dangerous place to be in Kansas is between Paul Morrison and a TV camera.
Well Ben, we’re very lucky where I’m at. The ice storm barely missed us.Yeah we have several inches of rock hard sleet, snow and ice on the ground, but it’s nothing like the disaster east of here.From about the Mo. line on east,people are without power and dying.Wonder what preacher Pat’s take on the wrath of God is this time?
If you think this board is a fair sample of the US population – or even of the Kansas population – then I have a bridge in downtown Wichita to sell you.
Blogs are GREATLY more popular with liberal voters than for conservatives. On this board, we have about 4-5 consistently conservative voices, and about 20 regular liberals. That is not representative of the population.
The arena? There is no “recall” going to happen. That train has left the station. Contracts have been signed, buildings have been condemned, businesses have been relocated. Multiple RE developers are already securing locations for restaurants, sports bars, gift shops. If the council even THOUGHT of backstepping, the lawsuits would be endless.
I’m sorry you naysayers think you have some recourse – you don’t.
Phillll has been marginalized.Nobody cares.Thanks for the report.
Yeah, it’s a lot tougher to get away with lies and spin without being called on them in a blog ain’t it balls?When you got Tony Snowjob, fielding softball questions from handpicked (and even phony) reporters, well…….why not just stick to that forum?
Oh , and I believe if your conservatives continue on this path,the 75/25 split WILL be an accurate representation!
Tracy,My in-laws live in Indy, and I have many friends in Neodesha (my old hometown). I know the ice storm was a near miss – thankfully. (Too bad it didn’t slam Cherryvale, though. I still hate those F-ers. )
Anyone else notice that the Democrats get control of Congress, announce they will have hearings into the huge profits of the old companies and will end the subsidys they receive and all of the sudden gas falls below $2.00/gallon?
Point of Interest:Yet ANOTHER thread with reference to Phill Kline. Why don’t we just let him fade away?
Gay,It wasn’t sudden. Gas prices have been falling since summer.
Balls, I agree.Philll isn’t worth discussing anymore.Let him fade into lawyer landscape,ride into the sunset, or whatever.Just don’t come back and tell us about it.We don’t care.HA
Balls whadya hate cherryville for?Yeah Indy and Neodesha were spared.Must not be any gays there, huh?
You’re from Neodesha?HA, THAT explains it!!! ;)
Um, really, golf nutz? Then why was I paying so much over the Christmas holidays? In fact, I would be inclined to agree with Mafia there… Isn’t it Ironic? (Alanis Morrissette)
Time for the ceremonial..
That dude on the front page, his picture scares me.
Price of crude is set in the futures market there has been massive speculation pushing the price up as much as $15-$20 more a barrel.The speculators have decided for what ever reason to move their money else where. Its a herd mentality- so we have been paying a speculative investment tax to rich corporations who in turn will find something else to bid up.
Doesn’t it make sense that when the oil companies subsidies are taken away that gas prices will go up? Cost of doing business and all that?
Eat the rich.
woody, wouldn’t you rather that they make record profits honestly, instead of just being handed cash up front?
Funny how when the news is bad for Phill kline, you can’t wait to post on the subject. And Tracy, why don’t you take up drinking or something more suited to your talents and abilities. Your definitly not cut out to be a blogger
The current cold snap/ice notwithstanding it has been a very warm winter so far. That has resulted in reduced heating oil and gas consumption. That, in turn, effects oil prices.
Mrs mac–you FUNNY!HA.You’re gonna hafta do better than that sweety.
Well I woke up this morningOn the wrong side of the bedAnd how I got to thinkin’About all those things you saidAbout ordinary peopleAnd how they make you sickAnd if callin names kicks back on youThen I hope this does the trick
‘Cause I’m sick of your complainin’About how many billsAnd I’m sick of all your bitchin”Bout your poodles and your pillsAnd I just can’t see no humorAbout your way of lifeAnd I think I can do more for youWith this here fork and knife
Eat the Rich: there’s only one thing that they’re good forEat the Rich: take one bite now – come back for moreEat the Rich: I gotta get this off my chestEat the Rich: take one bite now, spit out the rest
So I called up my head shrinkerAnd told him what I doneHe said you best go on a dietYeah I hope you have some funAnd a don’t go burst a bubbleOn rich folk who get rude’Cause you won’t get in no troubleWhen you eats that kind of foodNow they’re smoking up their junk bondsAnd then they go get stiffAnd they’re dancing at the yacht clubWith Muff and Uncle BiffBut there’s one good thing that happensWhen you toss your pearls to swineTheir attitudes may taste like shitBut go real good with wine
Eat the Rich: there’s only one thing that they’re good forEat the Rich: take one bite now – come back for moreEat the Rich: I gotta get this off my chestEat the Rich: take one bite now, spit out the rest
Believe in all the good thingsThat money just can’t buyThen you won’t get no bellyacheFrom eatin’ humble pieI believe in rags to richesYour inheritance won’t lastSo take your Grey Poupon, my friendAnd shove it up your ass!!!
….Aerosmith
Uh Ms big mac?
You got that just exactly backwards. TRACY could eviscerate you easily!
No Ms big mac. It is you and your hubby need some “blogger 101″ You and hubby look pretty silly here.
Tracy,’Eat the rich’? Only if she is cute and STD free.
I heard that on the radio. That it was the ‘futures’ stock market that drove the price up. When the weather folks said that the hurricane season wouldn’t be as bad as previously thought, the interest in the stocks waned.
Subsidies to the OIL COMPANIES???? You’ve GOTTA be shittin me. They were pulling in BILLION dollar PROFITS each QUARTER!!!! And they need to be subsidized?????
Tracy, I’ll have a cold one with you. Might make Mrs. Mac Daddy tollerable =)
One of the troubles with this blog is the speed with which some people jump in to disagree..without ever bothering to actually read what is posted.
Case in point..I earlier posted about the disproportionate amount of media attention being given to the Jodie Sanderholm murder compared with others.
Pmom jumps in to claim it is not fair to say the media ONLY talks about…etc.
I never said that, but was making a general comment about lopsided coverage that usually appears to be based on race/age/gender.
But..some people here are going to disagree more on who posts something than on what is said.
Sad.
Guy’s I’d LOVE to have a cold one with each and everyone of ya’.
Even Mrs. Mac.That way she could see what a caring thoughtful person I am.”Can I getya another brew M’am?”
Truth is, I haven’t touched a drop since Oct.’98.Sorry Mrs. Mac.Been there, done that.Booooring!
Can you imagine working at the following Company?It has a little over 500 employees with the following statistics:
29 have been accused of spouse abuse7 have been arrested for fraud19 have been accused of writing bad cheques117 have bankrupted at least two businesses3 have been arrested for assault71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit14 have been arrested on drug-related charges8 have been arrested for shop-lifting21 are current defendants in lawsuits In 1998 alone84 were stopped for drunk driving
Can you guess which organization this is?
Give up?
It’s the 535 members of the LAST United States Congress.The same group that perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line
Sad.Isn’t Aerosmith a band made up of rich guys?
Strange how you think original thoughts look silly but your ownly thoughts are someone else’s. How long did it take you to learn how to copy and paste from other websites? I’m sure you didn’t have the pateince or the skills to type up Aerosmith’s song or the 22 points you listed without making a typo. However, it did make you look pretty silly. By the way, so does name calling. I thought all of you leftists were Harvard, MIT… graduates who were above that and could kick anybody’s butt in an argument without stooping to such low tactics. And you even have the advantage on your side, there are a lot more of you than there are us. So the media says, and we know how honest and truthful they are.
raptor, I agree with your original point that media coverage has been disproportionate in the Sanderholm case. However, the Eagle, inter alia, is in the business to make money by selling advertising, the rates for which are based upon its readership; and as a terrible event in its primary circulation area, anything within reason it can do to boost its sales, it will.
The fact that more papers, in this case, may be sold because the victim was an attractive caucasian female, age 19, is more a comment on the society than the source.
Yeah, but they didn’t start with a golden spoon.That’s why they write for who the identify with.Same for the Kinks.
woody, ya’ know what?Folks with your ultra-conservative views never were very welcome in the rock n’ roll crowds I always ran with.They tended to get beat up a lot at concerts.
Mac, what is it you want?Can I help you with something?You came here whining about your uncle Philll.Is that all you wanted?
And what low tactics?cutnpaste?If you came here expecting to be offended, we’ll gladly oblige.Yes indeed, gentlemen we are.
Come to think of it…..I’m feeling silly NOW!Thanks msmac.
Q: Why don’t monsters eat clowns?
A: They tast FUNNY!
Newspapers and TV News had a great interest in the Ark City murder of the College Coed and so does Kansas Attorney General Morrison.
Maybe Morrison thought those poor incompetents down in Ark City are incapable of prosecuting a murder trial.
…or was it a chance at free publicity.
Re: tracy’s 10:31 postFrom Snopes.com:
“None of this should be surprising to anyone but the most naive among us. What is surprising is that so many people willingly circulate the above-cited piece of cheap, inflammatory tripe expecting it to be taken seriously.”
The local DA asked him to come in.
Right, Ben, but JM would never admit to that, because heaven forbid that a Democrat be better at their job than the former Republican, so we have to find all sorts of negative things to spout off about them, and the only thing we can come up with is something that isn’t true anyways… typical…
I rather suspect the Cowley County Attorney would have requested the AG’s office to come into the case, irrespective of the political affiliation of the AG. This kind of case is, in the situations most small counties find themselves, in need of more resources than can be provided locally for it to be tried correctly.
hee hee hee hee hee
In what alternate universe does ms mac live?
Heheheheheheehhehe
I ALWAYS look for Tracy’s posts first. Funny and insightful.
Two concepts probably foreign to someone who’s had their sense of humor and insight genes sugically removed.
Or perhaps born without them.
I think Tracy is WELL cut out, er, suited, hehehe, to be a blogger.
Maybe the best blogger here.
And a little link for those who think this blog is populated by, what is it? Ten posters who check their own posts thousands of times each day?
Heheheheheheheheheh
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2007-01-17T175803Z_01_N17304643_RTRIDST_0_NIELSEN-BLOGS.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna
Talks about how many people read newspaper blogs and the growth in numbers of newspaper blog readers.
hee hee hee hee hee
Maybe ms. mac, or other CONS are just tired of having their asses consistantly kicked so publicly?
Carry on Tracy. We await your next posts….
I heard on the news that Paul Morrison was brought into the trial by request of the DA. It was felt that the Ark City does not have the resources or experience to properly handle every detail in this size of trial and that’s why Morrison was brought in. what’s so hard to understand about that and why put down Morrison for doing his job?
I guess, given the results of the 06 elections, that the bloggers here are representative of the voting public?
We hate philllll and support open government.
Oh yeah, and we dont like that bushboy much either.
KFG. Proudly hating the bush family since 1985. (The year I moved to texas and saw their dirty work first hand!)
Oh, and PS, does that mean ’cause y’all hate clinton so much, that all your criticisms of him are invalid too?
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheh
I always look forward to Tracy’s next 10 page copy and paste post. Then I can see how fast my scroll button works.
I think the cons here are just jealous that NO ONE ever asked phillllll to come into their county and help them. In fact, some law and order type folks fought like hell to keep him FROM working in their county.
Does that tell ya anything?
And Morrison hasnt been in office for a month and already, his dance card is getting full with all the requests for help.
Four years worth of backlog? heheheh
A misspelled “outlandr”?
Havent we been through this before?
some of you bitch when a link is posted and also bitch when the material is pasted.
Could it be the right wingers here just like to bitch about ANYTHING that doesnt come out of bush’s or rush’s ass?
“Move along here nothing to see”
Those pesky damn facts and truths just keep getting in the way of con propaganda, dont they?
The AG was brought in because the Cowley County Attoreny opposes the death penalty and the citizens wanted it in this case. This way he keeps his “morals” pure by letting the AG file for death and he can get reelected.
…and btw, yes, I am uber fiesty today after having watched Gonzo get his ass grilled and stomped by Leahy’s committee in the Senate.
I think we’ve said before, the next two years are gonna be
so.much.fun.
KS Farm Girl: It sounds like you lost your cookies, hee hee hee hee hee; watch out for the men in white coats coming your way. By the way, did you watch Hee Haw once too many times?
Lost my cookies? WTF?
hee hee hee hee hee hee hee
at you ms. mac town.
I see what Tracy says is true. I bet clowns like you DO taste funny.
Do much trolling ms. clown?
Marcie C?
Morrison was called in on the Ark City case for the same reason that Klline was called in on the murder of Sheriff Matt Samuels.
Same county DA office’s don’t have the resources for potential DP cases.
End of story.
My comment Morrison and his curious appearance in the Arkansas City Murder Case was merely an observation.
Perhaps Christopher Smith (D) did invite him. One newspaper said Morrison was there to provide assistance.
Its curious though that Christopher Smith according to the Arkansas City Traveler already has a some murder convictions under his belt.
So, the reason he called Morrison in is ?
If that’s true WS Clark wouldn’t he call in the KBI for assistance instead of attorney help? The investigation is where the big expense lay.
The county attorneys are salaried and paid for.
The KBI would appear to be more of financial help than Morrison.
KFG,Look at Crowson’s cartoon in today’s online version of the Eagle.Cheers
Does the KBI report to Morrison?
“instead of attorney help?”
Few DA’s in Kansas have DP case experience – it is my understanding that Morrison’s involvement was to ensure that the county DA had the resources he needed from a prosecution perspective.
WS, exactly; that’s why the AG’s assistance is requested in a potentialy capital case.
SD, I believe the KBI is under the control (on the organizational chart) of the AG’s office, so in a sense, it reports to the AG. Perhaps GMC might enlighten us a bit here.
WSClark,
Fair enough, but the impression was that Morrison was going to actually try the case. Christopher Smith has already tried and convicted Cowley County Murders on his watch.
What makes this murder different other than the huge amount of publicity?
I have interest in this case too as I’m a Ark City native. :)
“What makes this murder different other than the huge amount of publicity?”
I would have to defer to the lawyer types on the blog, but I believe I am correct in saying that there are additional considerations required before a DA can file for the DP.
Lawyers?
JM, who knows the motivation of the Cowley County DA, other than the Cowley County DA? But is has been stated on record that he asked for Morrison. And correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t the KBI already involved? They did the DNA testing, among other things, that confirmed the body’s identity. Why question Morrison’s motives when it has already been shown that Morrison didn’t have motives other than DOING WHAT HE WAS ASKED TO DO?
JM, from my perspective, this is the first “capital murder” case in Cowley County where the DP is a realistic option. Thus, the AG’s assistance. Morrison (and his office while in JOCO) tried at least one capital case, so there is some expertise which my colleague Mr. Smith lacks to the best of my knowledge.
I’m wondering; the arrest on unrelated charges of the accused happened so fast; is there a confession? Not if he lawyered up right away, but if there is a confession, perhaps a plea deal taking the DP off the table?
Yes, there are additional considerations to a capital case, including compliance with the statutes, preparing to voir dire a jury (so called “death qualifying”), presentation of evidence in the case in chief, and if the defendant is convicted, preparation for the penalty phase; much, much to do, and if never done before, difficult to prepare. I’m not casting aspersions on the Cowley County County Attorney here; but as one who was involved in defense of a capital case while in the Air Force, it truly is a horse of a different color.
Shouldn’t he have deferred the televised interview he did to the Cowley County District Attorney?
Morrison was addressing the reporters in an interview available on KWCH TV Website:
My understanding is that the Chief Law Enforcement Office of the County, requests KBI investigation, such as DNA help, not the District Attorney. Is this correct?
Yes, Steven, thanks for mentioning the cartoon.
Crowson NAILED it so all could understand. Great job.
His picture says more than a thousand words I could type, proving the old sying is true.
Crowson is my favorite Eagle employee. I don’t know his politics, but he has some very acute insight on issues. heh heh
He’s a funny, talented man. :)
woody, thanks for your attention.you’re getting better at this,should I quit helping youfor my own sake?
You’re correct, the above piece of crap was not to be taken seriously,I read it on a “JOKE A DAY” site.
I’m busted.Great investigative reporting.Congrads.
KFG,YOU KNOW I LOVE YA GIRL!(check’s in the mail)Thanks.Neat link too.
That picture of Justin Thurber on the front page of the Eagle makes one wonder on visits to the Ark City Subway where Thurber was employed. Nothing to do with Subway, but wondering how Thurber asked customers what kind of bread they wanted and if they wanted american or italian cheese.
These thoughts do flow through my mind and they probably don’t deserve an answer. :)
The temperature outside is a BALMY 36 degrees.The big slabs of ice on top of the cars here have become life threatening projectiles.
Tracy,Yep, Neodesha, KS. Cherryvale and Fredonia were our two biggest rivals. We pretty much handed it to Fredonia in football, basketball, baseball while I was there, but Cherryvale was about a 50-50 split – ergo, I still hate the F-ers.
And I remember going to Parsons to see “Saturday Night Fever” at the movies…
Balls,If you played sports, you knew Homer Holmes (Fredonia coach).I’ll bet.
Little known Cherryvale history:The school team used to be known as “The Fighting Cherries”.
hahahah, hehehehe *******
If we wanted to name names of the guilty, we probably have mutual friends.
This is a sad fact about WSU being misnamed for the future benefit of themselves and without a football program or a stadium that is recognized regionally/nationally as the great place to hold events.
Wichita goes without a facility it needs.
Image is everything when it comes to selling a name brand. Winning helps college logo’s sell. Being in the games that matter, help. Winning a conference and playing in regionals, bowls or championship events.
Increasingly TV needs content on cable channels or free TV on weekends. Sporting events are a constant event selling to advertisers. WSU stays OFF THE AIR long months unlike other colleges around us.
But this isn’t a fair game at all in marketing and represents the “arrogance” of colleges finding no need to play WSU in basketball today. It’s not a college like them.
We shouldn’t except it! Neither should WSU.
Confusion exists when people don’t know what WU-Shock is. Shockers were always people.
Wichita Shockers University better represents who they are. Could be branded better to sell logo gear.
Logos mean more than ever
Wichita State
2000 $9,9752001 $11,2842002 $11,0472003 $15,1702004 $20,5832005 $15,0362006 $27,591
The WSU athletic department makes about $15,800 from licensing revenues in an average year.
Since July, the department has brought in $42,109 — smashing the previous record of $27,591 in fiscal year 2006. And there’s still six months left to build on that total.
Kansas
2000 $488,0272001 $486,1382002 $499,3452003 $768,2902004 $965,3872005 $995,4502006 $972,343
Kansas State (used to be a very bad football team is rewarded. The Power Cat logo is now very well represented)
2000 $681,8842001 $698,9562002 $757,0772003 $730,6762004 $891,0902005 $893,8282006 $810,896
On MSNBC right now is the perfect example of what is wrong with Lib media. You have Chris Mathews, Senator Landrou and Olympia Snow.Lib, Lib and Lib. Yeah, that’s balanced.
What’s next? Hagal and Kusinich?
A bill is being drafted in the Kansas Senate to give gays and lesbians equal rights under the law to be protected against discrimination.
I’m thrilled beyond words.
For those of you who claimed that the marriage amendment wasn’t about hating gays, this is your turn to stand up and show you meant it.
Whose going to watch Colbert on Bill O’Reilly tonight? And vise versa?
Gearing up for the mano-a-mano event here.
Gays are already protected against discrimination.
Enema, mr smarty pants, show me where?
BDP fleeet,
You’re right, Matthews is a PERFECT example of what’s wrong with “liberal”(sic) MSM.
Matthews has said, “I’m more conservative than people think I am. … I voted for George W. Bush in 2000.”
A few examples of Matthew’s “liberal” (sic) bias, http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/chrismatthews
Yeah Matthews is SO liberal, all he could do during the Reagan funeral was bash upon democrats.
I felt that was in VERY poor taste, even though I didn’t like Reagan at all as a president, I still respected him AS the president who just passed on.
And Matthews just couldn’t shut up about the politics during that time. I was more than irritated at that.
“…information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.” Media Matters defines conservative misinformation as news or commentary presented in the media that is not accurate, reliable, or credible and that forwards the conservative agenda.”"
Is this the reliable source you wish us to form an opinion?
Hogwash. Don’t you watch his show? I do.
Another thing. Can’t you people post without insults?Also, do you know who Matthews used to work for? He’s Lib and proud of it. I respect him for that.
pmom-Back attcha. How exactly are gays discriminated against?
“Another thing. Can’t you people post without insults?”
The King of Insults now wants us all to play nice?
Prove your statement first fleetwood. You made the assertion, not political mom. So you have the burden of proof.
Time to walk your talk buddy.
At the risk of changing the subjects heretofore, I have a question. How can the Iraqi towel-heads build 1000’s of IED’s, and yet can’t even hang one of their own without ripping his head off? Perhaps they should just blow the bastards up ?
Besides, you cant prove a negative.
Did you just say Towel head?
Augh.
And did you see Bill O’Reilly just call Stockholm Syndrome ’simplistic”???
WTF?God I hate Bill-o.
KFG he can’t prove it because it’s not true. He talks out his posterior way too often.
I don’t quite get the question. Gays can vote, work, go about their business, even have TV shows, just like everybody. Where is the problem?
I hate Bill-O, also.
BDP fleet,
“Is this the reliable source you wish us to form an opinion?Hogwash. Don’t you watch his show? I do.”
Are you claiming that the examples of anti-liberal bias at http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/chrismatthews are not accurate? If, you are, give us multiple examples proving it.If not, then be an adult, and admit you’re wrong.
Media Matters is a slanted outfit.No truth in them.
Man enema, you’re really lacking in backbone (or facts) today.
I’ve already posted the “facts” on Media Matters.
Media Matters <– meaningless to intelligent people.
Media Matters <– incredibly valuable to liberals.
Gosh, testicles and enema sound just alike.
Gee who’d have thunk it, and both of them think just because THEY Said it, then it must be true!
More rude names. Can’t you people stay civil?
would you prefer your old name? Hot licky dicky?
What’s with your pre-occupation with the dirty talk?Any answers on the whole gay discrimination thing you spoke of?
It is legal to discriminate against gay people in employment, housing, etc. That is why this legislation has been introduced every year for quite a while.
Funny, but Kansas just never seems to get around to passing it.
And has governor leadership endorsed it? Has she even done it as promised in her own offices?
I bet she’s silent on the subject.
Unlike fleetwood, who just doesnt have a clue.
Gee fleet, blacks, hispanics, women, men, whites and the elderly can all vote, work, etc.
But discrimation against them is not legal.
Dont gay people deserve equal protection under the law?
Or, in your mind, does having the right to pay taxes mean we have equal protection?
Ok. Now, you prove your statement.
Repost……….
“Another thing. Can’t you people post without insults?”
The King of Insults now wants us all to play nice?
Please enlighten me. How many states have passed this legislation that you wish?Is Kansas way behind the times?
Fleet, I’m not answering any questions until you answer mine.
You made an assertion. I want to see your proof.
If you need more explanation, then you are being deliberately obtuse.
Just admit it enema, when you said the marriage amendment wasn’t for gay bashing, you were lying, right?
The marriage ammendment was not for gay bashing, I agree.
Chris Matthews is a registered Democrat last I heard. He is more liberal on some issues than let’s say conservative Republicans.
And he talks likes he’s in an auditorium of old men whose hearing aid batteries have gone dead.
Still waiting….
Kansas is a right-to-work state. Employees can be fired for no reason at all. If I’m a business owner and I want to fire my black employee because he’s black, I can. I just can’t SAY I fired him because he’s black. I’ll be resourceful and find a way.
However, if I were bigoted enough to fire him because he’s black, why would I have ever hired him? Maybe I bought the business and the black employees came with…
Same goes for gay employees.
My statment was thus: “Gays are already protected against discrimination.”And thus:”I don’t quite get the question. Gays can vote, work, go about their business, even have TV shows, just like everybody. Where is the problem?” I will add, gays can own businesses. Where, exactly, is the problem?
Moreover…Discrimination on the basis of race is illegal.
Homosexuality is a choice. If employees choose to behave in a manner inconsistent with the values of the owner…
farmgirl-Shall I run up the “I win” flag?
The “I win” flag is flapping large time.
“”Gays are already protected against discrimination.”
Show me that protection fleet. You just give more examples of what gays are “allowed” to do.
Show me that protection.
And nutz, you arent even making sense.
So if the owner doesnt like methodist values is he allowed to fire all his methodist employees?
If the owner doesnt like modern values, like women working in the front office, is he allowed to keep women out of the top jobs solely because they are women and it doesnt agree with his values?
But… he can fire someone who is gay. For that reason alone. And there are no repercussions.
Show me the protection boys.
Show me where employers are allowed to discriminate against any other group based on their personal values.
My wife and I hired a gay employee several years ago, I didn’t know she was gay until she had worked for us for almost six months. My wife said she knew before we hired her. I didn’t care. I am a little dense, don’t pay much attention.
However, in the business that my wife has, we deal with the public a lot. I wouldn’t tolerate an employee that was openly sexual either way. If you want to work for me you can’t get involved with our customers. You can’t date our customers. I don’t care what your sexual orientation is, just don’t advertise it at work.
The last thing I need is for the Kansas legislature to pass a law telling me who I can hire and fire based on their sexuality. If you are openly obnoxious, heterosexual or otherwise, you can’t work for me.
Now, all that being said, what exactly is the Kansas legislature proposing? We all may be getting our panties in a wad over nothing. Having worked with the legislature on many issues in the past I’ve learned that they have the ability to formulate legislation that helps very little.
Hank
“If I’m a business owner and I want to fire my black employee because he’s black, I can. I just can’t SAY I fired him because he’s black. I’ll be resourceful and find a way.”
See nutz, substitute the word gay for black, and you wouldnt even have to “be resourceful and find a way”.
You could just do it. Because gays have no legal protection against it.
Please, prove otherwise with something other than insane and self-concocted false analogies.
pmom-”Just admit it enema, when you said the marriage amendment wasn’t for gay bashing, you were lying, right?”I didn’t say that, but I will say it wasn’t about “gay bashing”.
Hank – so if I work for you I can’t hit on the chicks? DARN!
;^)
Actually I agree with you … besides my wife would kill me!
Hank, if you fired someone of any orientation for being overtly sexual with customers, then you would be firing them for doing or not doing something while on the job.
Firing someone solely because they are gay is firing them for something they do or dont do off the job.
While you’re at it, somebody please prove that sexuality is freely chosen.
Because I believe that’s a big fat falsehood.
And please don’t respond with anything like “ok, flike, prove sexuality is never chosen.”
You started it. Back it up with proof or be shown to be the fool we all believe you to be.
Still waiting…..
“”Gays are already protected against discrimination.”
Show me that protection fleet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6277379.stm
“Venezuela’s National Assembly has given initial approval to a bill granting President Hugo Chavez the power to rule by decree for 18 months.Mr Chavez said he wants to approve “revolutionary laws” to enact sweeping political, economic and social changes.
He has said he wants to nationalise key sectors of the economy and scrap limits on the terms a president can serve.
Mr Chavez began his third term in office last week after a landslide election victory in December.
The bill allowing him to enact laws by decree is expected to win final approval easily in the assembly next week on its second reading.
‘Bolivarian revolution’
Venezuela’s political opposition has no representation in the National Assembly since it boycotted elections in 2005.
Mr Chavez has said he wants to see major Venezuelan power and telecoms companies come under state control.
He also called for an end to foreign ownership of lucrative crude oil refineries in the Orinoco region.
Critics of Mr Chavez say he is trying to build a totalitarian dictatorship with all institutional powers consolidated into his own hands.
National Assembly President Cilia Flores said “there will always be opponents, and especially when they know that these laws will deepen the revolution”.
Mr Chavez has said he wants to deepen his “Bolivarian revolution”, named after the 19th Century Latin American independence fighter.
Could the Democrat Party follow after they take control of Government?
farmgirl-”Show me that protection fleet”It’s called the Constitution.
Now, missy, show me the discrimination.
Where is that in the Constitution?
Duh fleet. That is why hate amendments are necessary? To override a constitutional protection?
Uh, it’s cause hate amendments violate the equal protection clauses that we are unhappy.
Like I said, DUH!
Care to show me where in the constitution? And where in kansas statutes are we protected?
Joe! Your paranoia is showing. Did they do it in the 90s?
No Ben! Because Democrats didn’t have control of Congress. Republicans did.
This is like so many other issues…. folks, get over yourselves and let other people live with the same benefits and protections that you enjoy.
Not to offend anyone that is G or L, but who the hell cares? You live your life I live mine and that is the way it is. Or, honestly, that is the way it should be.
And Christ, does ANYONE halfway intelligent really believe that people CHOOSE to be gay?
Damn – some people spend way too much time with Jeff Christie.
I will respect you as a human being, just as I would respect you if you were African American or Hispanic.
Damn, can’t we all just TRY to PRETEND that we are all equal in God’s Eyes?
Really?
Paranoia? No! I’m just concern! Because it’s within the realm of possibility.
Any study of political history will tell you how fast a government can change into a dictorial state.
Anybody have an idea when the due process bullshit will be over and the Carr brothers get juiced?And will it be on pay per view?
I do have a serious question though. Suppose Genetic Scientist found a gay gene. And what if that gene can be detected in a baby in the womb.
Would it be ok for a woman to abort the baby based on the fact that it would be a gay person?
“Firing someone solely because they are gay is firing them for something they do or dont do off the job.”
Oh, I agree. The problem is, if I fire a gay employee because they keep spilling their coffee in the computer keyboard, what protections will I have after this law is passed that prevents me from firing someone because they’re gay?
In 25 years we’ve only fired one employee and that was because she cussed out my wife while we were trying to reprimand her for poor performance.
Again, does anyone know what this proposed law does to protect gay rights? I’ve worked with openly gay people at Beech and Learjet and I know of several openly gay people that seem to be living a good life gainfully employeed without much hassle.
Hell, I get more grief on this BLOG for being a conservative than anyone I know gets for being gay.
Hank
Russell! There will not be any execution. Executions are now considered cruel and unusual punishment.
Other than the marriage thing, I can’t think of what “equal” rights gay people want.
And I’m not sure marriage is even a right in the sense of the other rights, speech, assembly etc etc.
I am familiar with rights after marriage, but none that are offered before marriage. But it’s late and I’m getting tired. :)
Legal beagles can add to that.
farmgirl-Until and unless you can show me how gays are discriminated against, the “I win” flag will only raise higher. Stop with your silly circle logic and step up.I suspect you cannot readily show it or you would have already.I have seen any gay drinking fountains only or no gays allowed.Your lack of response only proves my point.
Well, that tears it. Not only should they be executed, but they should be forced to give interviews to Dana Hertneky.
See FLogtesticles, the thing about you firing employees for being black, that’ll catch up with you eventually. The discrimination would be obvious after so many employees were fired, or not hired. Same with gays.
And I know people who have been fired for being gay. They are also discriminated against in housing as well.
Saying it’s not important, well, that shows your bias.Just because you own a business doesn’t mean you own the employees’ lives.
There used to be a site that I saw that listed all the ways gays were discriminated against, but I cannot find it for the life of me.
Who on Earth would WANT to work for or with troglodytes like Hank Price or the goofnut?
Hell I’d quit after one day of their sparkling personalities.
Kfg? Please do not lower yourself to discourse with the blogs dumbest poster fleetwood.
Hey Joe? They are finding that a genetic predisposition to politics exists as well. Ask the cons if they would abort a potential liberal fetus.
Oh and Colbert maybe O’reilly look like a buffoon! Can’t wait to see Billo get it again on the Colbert report!
Pee,I didn’t say it was RIGHT. And I didn’t say it is what *I* would do. I hire the best person for the job – with no regard for race, gender or sexual orientation. BUT, I don’t have any gay employees (that I know about).
But, I firmly believe the government does not belong on this issue. Business owners should be allowed to hire whomever they want.
Well if it’s not RIGHT then why don’t you support legislation against it? Or is it because you’re a business owner, you think that you get to discriminate against people for who they are?
Employers are not gods.
Again, does anyone know what the proposed legislation is? Does it address any wrongs that are being waged against the rights of gays?
Or does it merely make it harder to find employees that are qualified?
Hank
All it should do is add sexual orientation to the list of things you can’t discriminate against for employment, housing, etc.
Pee,I’m against that kind of legislation.
I know, because you like to think of yourself as God.
Dictator of all those minions below you.
No, because those that OWN the business should be able to operate them (including hiring practices) without government intervention.
“Right to work” laws. That’s what needs to go.
I am all in favor of allowing businesses to hire and fire whomever they please.
They just need to be required to publish why they hire and fire those employees and allow the public to decide where we will spend our money.
If Wal Mart announced that they discriminate against gays, they would lose about 30-35 percent of their market share.
Cool.
And for those businesses that do not market directly to the public? They should be required to disclose their client lists so appropriate boycots could be organized.
Way cool.
Interesting statistic WSClark”If Wal Mart announced that they discriminate against gays, they would lose about 30-35 percent of their market share.”
Being as the estimates of the number of gays range from 4-10 percent depending on who you talk to.
I suppose you are including that the rest of the percentages would come from those who support Gay rights.
I doubt seriously that those who talk the talk would walk the walk when it comes to a boycott of that magnitude.
Of course, Walmart would never say such a thing in the first place, so it’s a useless hypothetical. :)
“I doubt seriously that those who talk the talk would walk the walk when it comes to a boycott of that magnitude.”
I was using the percentages that voted against the measure that would ban gay marriage.
And most that I know that voted against the ban would also boycot Wal Mart if they openly discriminated against gays.
“‘Right to work’ laws. That’s what needs to go.”
Please explain, J R. The reason Kansas has for doing this is to attract film makers here. Not a bad thing, right?
Is anyone else getting really tired of these bot-screeners? I think every post I made today was interrupted by those stupid error messages.
I have made it into a competition, can I get through the first screen? I have every time today. But, that is not always the case…
Still batting 1000% – you jerks.
That’s your best pitch? Ad nauseam…
DVD tip for the week: see _The Illusionist_. I like the director, he did _Sideways_. The man is a great photographer if nothing else.
My wife loved it. It tends to be a chick flick, which is not always a bad thing. In fact, I think I hear her calling me now…
fleet,
You’re right, I shouldn’t call you BDP, because it’s obvious to anyone who reads your posts.
You can’t find examples of falsehoods at http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/chrismatthews — so instead you do the usual ineffective BS of “kill the messenger”.
You claim who Matthews USED to work for proves he’s still liberal now — ignoring the fact that his big, fat paycheck now comes from misinfo-tainment corporate media.
You ignore his statement “I’m more conservative than people think I am. … I voted for George W. Bush in 2000.”
Would you label Matthews “conservative”, if he had voted for Gore?
If Olympia Snow is a liberal, she must be a liberal Republican. :0
Hank, you made good sense on this thread and I found myself agreeing.I guess nobody wants to bring up what the bill actually says.Probably just another useless unenforceable piece of crap,put forth for political reasons.Anything to keep that damned wedge in the isle between right and left!
So, hank and tracy, YOU cant do the research about what the proposed bill says? You want ME to do it for you. Go to the kansas legislature website. You can find the entire TEXT of the bill there.
Are you so lazy I have to post a link?
Hank, you are nuts. You can indeed fire people for what they do on the job. I dont think current laws forbid you from firing a black person for any reason. You just cant fire them, or refuse to hire them, BECAUSE they are black.
But you can indeed, in kansas, not hire, fire, refuse to sell or rent housing, etc. all because, and ONLY because, someone is gay. Dont try to cloud the issue with these false analogies.
And fleet, you were asked to back up your “protection” statement. You STILL refuse to do so. I dont have to answer ANY questions or provide examples of discrimination until you back up your protection statement.
You are too stupid to live.
Dont answer me with another question. Back up you claim that gays are already protected.
In fact, I invite ANYONE to provide such proof, since obviously fleetie is unable to do so.
As far as examples of discrimination, go to the kansas human rights council website. They have HUNDREDS of cases documented.’You can use the google, no?
I’m not doing research for anyone on easily proven facts. You made the assertion fleetie. Now back it up, or admit you are a lying sack of crap.
well, at least nutz is consistant.
“No, because those that OWN the business should be able to operate them (including hiring practices) without government intervention.”
So if a restaurant serves you food that was prepared in unsanitary conditions, that is ok with you? Let the “market” take care of it? Well, gee, if you are DEAD from food poisoning, you cant exactly boycott the biz, or if you dont know the place has been inspected, in advance before you eat, you might get really sick before you realize what happened.
I guess in nutz’ world, we should just return to “The Jungle” days for commercial meat packing?
And given the obvious market for abortions, why dont you just let “the market” decide that question. Why picket Tiller? If he has a market for his services, shouldnt that “free marktet” rule?
We regulate biz everyday. Nutz benefits from those arguments everyday, yet clings to his belief in his false god, “the market”.
Hey, there is a market for crack too. Why are you picking on the poor crack businessmen. Dont they have a right to fill a market demand?
jesus wept nutz. You are as insane as your nic implies.
farmgirl-I’ve already cited the Constitution. Your problem is your refusal to cite even one example of how gays are discriminated against. Not even one. My “I win” flag is two stories high by now.
hee hee hee in the world of nutz, fleetie, jm, hank, we would not only return to “The Jungle” but ALL high paying jobs would be reserved for straight, white, christian, middle class men”.
Not that there is anything wrong with that?
hehehehehe. Not if you are part of that “poor persecuted majority”….
You sited NOTHING in the Constitution. I specifically asked above that you do so.
The Constitution covers blacks, handicapped, etc. too. But they are protected by specific legislation.
If the blanket “constitution” protects everyone equally, why do other minority communities need extra protection, but gays dont?
Please cite the specific part of the constitution that protects gays.
Again, you are too stupid to live. If you think you won with that weak and watery answer, I think it explains much about the “mind” of fleetwood.
Do your research jackass and then come back here. Again, someone must have forgotten to tell the facists here that they need to bring their “A” game.
I will answer your questions when you back up your assertion. And again, you cant do the research to find discrimination? Even when you are given the websites to look at?
heheheheheh. You couldnt find yer ass with both hands and a roadmap if THAT is the case.
KFG, I’m not sure what you’re referring to.My only point on the bill is that I doubt that it is being done for anything other than self-serving purpose on part of the legislature.They are not concerned with gay rights on either side of the isle, unless they think a wedge can be used to garner support.Yeah, Jesus wept.again
hehehehehNot even one example.Aren’t you people allowed to adopt?Where’s the discrimination?
fargirl-
“Hey, there is a market for crack too. Why are you picking on the poor crack businessmen. Dont they have a right to fill a market demand?”
I’m too stupid to live? You are not making any sense. Perhaps you should cut down on the yeast consumption. It’s making you shrill.
Where is it?I read some of it almost everyday right here.In some form.
Thanks fleetie for making my point.
You cant answer or back up your crap. Just accusations, no facts to back up yer crap.
I wont push you anymore on this thread. I think you have exposed your ass quiet enough here.
Go back to the thread and defend your “non”trolling. If you do as well there as here, the ed’s should bounce your IP addy real soon.
If they are watching…..
I agree with your last post Tracy.
This is what I was referring to:
“Hank, you made good sense on this thread and I found myself agreeing.I guess nobody wants to bring up what the bill actually says.”
Why should I do the research and post a link to the bill? Anyone with even basic research skills should be able to do that themselves.
When hank says crap like that, he is just too lazy to do research on something he KNOWS he is wrong about. He just wants to run the rest of us ragged providing proof for something he will never believe anyway.
“this is not a pipe”.
Remember?
To the ed’s, I say bring it. When I’m not bounced, I will expect an “I’m sorry, sweet Fleetwood.”