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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Jan. 2, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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101 Comments
Let’s see if we can make it through a day on this thread without trollers, stalkers and lurking maniacs.
Wow, what a data dump. Looks like most all of the Board members must have just woke up from hangovers and decided to throw ideas at us.
Or could it be that they grew tired of whatever was going on with that last thread? Anyone have any idea what that was all about?
Probably too late but I’ve been thinking a lot about the comments here about Kline going after Tiller and clinic, pro-lifers against abortion, etc. Wait! Doesn’t anyone else see a huge underlying social problem here? And don’t jump me because you think I’m not pro-life.
11-12-13 yo’s having sex? Maybe, just maybe it’s not all rape. Perhaps it’s consensual. You can tell me that an under age female does not have the right to consent to sex, but somebody needs to tell them that. Not all of these 12 yo girls were raped. It was consensual. I have no statistics. Just coming from a much smaller school district than Wichita and yes, it is happening around here.
Example: An 11 yo girl invites a boy into the home after the parents have gone to bed to have sex. A 13 yo girl takes the family vehicle after everyone in bed to meet up with her bf to have sex. Unfortunately she wrecked the vehicle and didn’t make it there. OK. That’s 2 possible pregnancies right there. From a very small school district. There are more, but don’t want to hog space.
What’s missing here? Anyone want to take a guess? Sex education starts in the home? You may, but do a lot of parents? Do they care enough to do it? Should schools really be responsible for sex education by the time a student is in middle school? Sex education should have been started way before that in the home meeting the age level of the child. Give me a break: it’s called taking responsibility. Many parents don’t and won’t.
Even at that, the problem will not be fixed 100%. Ever!
Perhaps there should be state budgeting for a state-run orphanage for all these unwanted pregnancies carried to term? Or when a pregnancy is discovered each pro-lifer at that time starts picking up the medical tab for the girl without insurance through delivery at which time the baby is placed (mandatory) in the state orphanage. Off the wall, yes. Typed with sarcasm and tongue in cheek.
The whole point is that many of these pregnancies were not rape. Perhaps yes legally because of ages involved. But Tiller is not the problem. Abortion is not the problem. We are sadly not educating children in the right way, at the right time not to have protected sex.
The pro-lifers need to get over themselves along with those on the other side of the fence, everyone get together and see if there isn’t a better solution to these very, very young pregnancies. Burning down an abortion clinic will not stop these young girls getting pregnant. Sadly, in some cases the finger points to the parents albeit they are completely innocent sometimes at what is going on with their child. But it certainly can’t hurt if they at least make an effort to see that their child (boys and girls both) are properly educated as to the responsibility of having sex – whatever age they are.
My 2 cents.Beckster
Does abortion have to dominate EVERY thread?
Maybe we could just have a perpetual Abortion/Kline/Tiller/RidiculousOngoingArguments topic that is at the top of the list every day.
Today’s Bushisms:
” I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region” 3/13/02
” And there’s no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we will fail” 10/4/01
?????
An interesting perspective in Saddam’s hanging: DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/01/01/us-buries-truth/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftorontosun.canoe.ca%2FNews%2FColumnists%2FMargolis_Eric%2F2006%2F12%2F31%2F3097415.html&frame=true
GSTER – AT LEAST ON THE SECOND QUOTE BUSH WAS RIGHT!
Quote of the Day:
“A dictionary is not a good source for definitions since it is rigid in a fascist sense, thus preventing a person from using the word as he sees fit.” A Wichita Public School “Educator”
Viva la Raza Blanco!!
Fact of the Day:
More people are killed every year by falling coconuts than by shark attack.
Viva la Raza Blanco!!
Nut, throw in sumpin’ about Terry Fox and gays.That’s the thread that will never die!
Didn’t Ian post the same earlier?What da hey?
From today’s New York Times:
While it sounds like a promising idea, it turns out that the long-lasting, swirl-shaped light bulbs known as compact fluorescent lamps are to the nation’s energy problem what vegetables are to its obesity epidemic: a near perfect answer, if only Americans could be persuaded to swallow them.
But now Wal-Mart Stores, the giant discount retailer, is determined to push them into at least 100 million homes. And its ambitions extend even further, spurred by a sweeping commitment from its chief executive, H. Lee Scott Jr., to reduce energy use across the country, a move that could also improve Wal-Mart’s appeal to the more affluent consumers the chain must win over to keep growing in the United States.
“The environment,” Mr. Scott said, “is begging for the Wal-Mart business model.”
It is the environmental movement’s dream: America’s biggest company, legendary for its salesmanship and influence with suppliers, encouraging 200 million shoppers to save energy.
—-
How dare Wal-Mart do this! I am refusing to shop there anymore. All they want to do is make money off us. Why can’t they be stopped?
Hopefully the lights are being improved, but about one-third of the ones that i have tried in the past did not last even as long as a cheap incandescent.
Anyone have the same problem?
Ian,More fine examples of self-serving arguments with nothing ventured as to sourcing. Which is the hallmark of a bombthrower.
Perhaps Humpty Dumpty now subs at Wichita high schools?
`When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
`The question is,’ said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
`The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master — that’s all.’
Hi Ig. I have been using compact florescnets for some years and find them much longer-lived. In fact, using them in ‘difficult’ locations like my outdoor fixtures they have gone several times as long. When I consider what a pain in the bu** it is to change those the additional cost of the florescent is well worth it even not counting energy savings.
Ignatius, etc., I’ve not had the problem you describe with the fluorescent bulbs. The issue I’ve had with some is that the light they emit make me look like I’ve a bad case of hepatitis. Now, a healthy yellow tinge to the complexion is no reason to refuse to conserve energy to be sure; but there’s gotta be something that can be done to take care of this, as my wife seems to have an aversion to my yellow cast.
Beckster – you brought up some good and valid points. Even though nutz does not care about the abortion topic, this issue is a major one in the political landscape. I think that both sides have gone to their extremes and nothing will be resolved until cooler heads prevail and we get away from this ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’ attitude. Of course, in today’s political world – that will never happen.
Sunny,I didn’t say I didn’t CARE about the abortion topic, but holy Jesus – how many abortion threads do we need?
I have been using the flourescent lights and the price savings I think is worth it. And these don’t put off yellow light like you’re thinking the tube ones do, these are much better and brighter. I LOVE THEM.
And they do last a million times longer.
Yep Tracy, I can bash Terry Fox with the best of ‘em. But, I’m not a big fan of redundancy.
And gays? I don’t care what they do behind closed doors. I just don’t wanna see it in the grocery store.
I agree Beckster, because I’ve known girls that young to do it.
When I was about 17 and was at the height of my own partying stage, there used to be this 12 year old girl that’d come showing up at our parties at 1 or 2 in the morning! We’d always send her away, but she was always looking to hook up with some of the boys, and I’m pretty sure some of them left with her from time to time.
I always wondered, where the hell were her parents? Yeah I started young too, but damn, not THAT young.
I also knew two girls who were pregnant in the 8th grade. The one is still married to the guy she married at that age, they’ve got to be in their 40’s now. I don’t know what happened to the other girl. No investigations.
I know my first love would be considered a sex offender today, and that’s sad. He was such a good guy before he died.
Here’s a real non-story, sheesh.
Sleepy SpearsBritney’s manager says the pop princess did not collapse at a Vegas nightclub but “fell asleep.”
BTW Nut,I’m changing your nic when I reply.From now on you are “Balls”.
That’s about personality,not anatomy.
Sweet!
I’ll try to live up to the moniker.
Hey you guys think we got clowns in Kanass?No way.
This guy takes the cake.Tells me on his blog that evolution doesn’t exist.Why?Because God did not mention it in the bible!!I should have known.I see another guy got him nominated for worst argument of the year.He’s really a nutball.Go ask him a couple of questions about evolution.I DARE YA’!!!!
The Fanciful Land of Evolution”Adding sense to Evolutionists’ fanatical hatred toward God, conservatism, and anything that represents them.”http://pharyngulatopics.blogspot.com/
Regarding the issue of abortion topics, I think there is one already. WE Blog editors have categorized topics in a list where readers can view topics at their leisure.
As far as fluorescents versus incandescents I have both in my house. The fluors I have are the oddly shaped under-the-counter or closet type of bulbs.
One thing I’ve learned about fluors is that if you do any task requiring the critical assessment of color. You will be fooled everytime. It’s the reason not to use color swatches to buy paint or fabric in a store filled with fluorscent bulbs.
The other factor is making a decision is frequency of use. I’ve had incandescents in some part of the house that have lasted five plus years. The reason is simple, i don’ turn the lights on often there and if I do, the lights are left on for a short period of time.
I have one room where I would go through a builb a month. This room was used frequently and I thought this was the problem until the frequency of bulb burn out was the problem. I talked to an electrician and he told me to change the receptacle and check to make the wires leading to the receptacle were in good shape. That was the problem, not the bulbs. The receptacle was of low quality and whoever put it in had cripped the wires and they were compromised.
Now that same room will use one bulb per year.
I guess we need a lighting category.
Okay, I can’t resist!
The worst argument ever:
Q:How is evolution more demeaning than believing we can trace our inbred lineage back to dirt and a rib?
A:Well, for starters, our lineage comes from the spirit of God. We are composed of body, soul, and spirit. Dirt did not breed and produced man. God used material matter and changed it into a human being. This is called special creation.
Secondly, even if your thesis were accurate at least it is verifiable. When one dies, he returns to dirt. I have yet to hear of one dieing and returning to a monkey.
Even funnier, the guy posts as “Master of Instruction”.
I think cocksnack is more descriptive.
Why don’t you regular trolls take it over there and have some fun with cocksnack?
Tracy: Do we really want to get into posting bad arguments from the other side? I know that would be a full time job for me. (but wouldn’t pay very well)
And it does nothing to diminish the legitimate arguments.
out, there is no legitimate argument for ID, creationism and it’s cousins.It’s metaphor.Sorry.
Of course there is Tracy. We’re not in science class dude.
Not only that, it makes more sense than evolutionary theory. In fact, it’s the truth. But ya gotta believe in God.
No amount or clairty of arguments will ever convince a committed creationist, that ID is unsupported. I suggest figuring out a less frustrating way to waste your time.
I DO believe.God tells me that evolution IS his plan.So does the pope and the church.
God also told me NOT to check my brain at the door when I go to worship him.
God told me. I believe it.Nuff said.
Thanks Steven.It’s not frustrating.God TOLD ME.Ya’ gotta believe in God!
Vaughn,All flourescents aren’t created equal. The ones you buy on sale or at a discount are going to go more toward the yellow end of the spectrum. Buy lamps marked “Daylight”. Better yet, look at the Kelvin color temprature rating. You’ll probably have to look that up because a clerk will probably give you a funny look when you ask about the Kelvin rating. Anything below 4000 Kelvin is probably going to look yellowish. If you really want good color, go to high output (HO) compacts. Yeah, they’re more expensive, but if color output is importiant…. Just reciently, we were shopping for diamonds. I was amazed that some of the national chains didn’t have proper lighting over the diamond counter. Talk about color being importiant!
I’ve been using flourescents for years now all through the house and it saves me a around 20% on my electric bill. And if you really want to see a lamp last a long time, in places where it’s feasible like the porch or garage, don’t turn the lamp off. The toughest service a lamp sees is when you turn it on. It’s also the highest power consumption. Also, occasionally check to make sure the lamp is securely screwed into the fixture. A lamp that’s loose in the socket won’t last long.
Good advice on the flourescents, XXX.
I’ve been using them for years.
I had the same experience you have–if you don’t turn them off, they seem to last forever.
And 15 watts x 24 hours is no more wattage than a 60 watt incandescent used for only 6 hours.
XXX, thanks for the information.
BTW, I saw a Myth Busters program the other day that reviewed the power consumption issue; according to their calculations, from a power consumption perspective, it is almost always better to turn off and on rather than leaving the light burning constantly. Of course, incandescents only burn out when they are turned on, right? :)
Vaughn, as much as I like Myth Busters, I’d question their results or methodoligy. I’ve been out of the industry for a few years now, but if memory serves me correctly, it takes around 700 volts to make a flourescent “fire”. That’s the purpose of the ballast.
We are talking about energy?
Good.
I’m hiding out. I don’t want to use my real nic so as not to pre-bias any answers.
I am looking for a new line of work. I recently became aware of the advances in solar energy. They now have shingles that generate electric power from sunlight. There are other advances as well.
No one in Wichita does this sort of work. I am wondering if there is a market for it.
Would you pay extra for a solar roof? Would you hire a contractor to make your home more energy efficient?
Thank you in advance for your answers.
Have been trying to access the Eagle discussion boards all morning, but keep getting “problem loading page”.
Anybody know what gives?
Solar,That would depend on the return on investment. How long would it take the energy savings to equal the extra investment?
Solar, another question that would come up is; how resistant are the solar shingles to hail, and what would be the assessment of the insurance companies in regard to the risk?(possibly resulting in higher premiums)
60schild1, there is a notice on the home page stating there are technical difficulties, and they’re working on it.
Solar, not much to add to what others have posted. Outlander’s point is well taken on the solar shingles. I personally think that it will take more increases in electricity and gas rates before the market for a contractor in the area of increasing energy efficiency of a residence grows to more than just a select few.
I think the masses would somersault backwards if they could get affordable Photo Voltaic (PV) roof tiles or some sort of solar tile instead of the standard asphalt, wood etc.
Of course, my thinking would be of those already mentioned, the Kansas weather. What is the resistance to hail and high wind of these types of roofing material?
With Kansas’s propensity to marble to baseball size hail, would there be a wrestling match with the Insurance company to get your roof repaired if it needed to be repaired?
And what is the interface price of the PV type of materials integrated to running some of the houses electrical systems?
Solar–
My parents had a vacation cabin in a remote area with no grid electricity.
Since they rented the cabin, they wired it for 12-volt appliances run off of deep-discharge marine batteries (the best at the time) recharged by solar panels.
The system worked pretty well. It pumped water from the cistern to the holding tank in the attic so you could have running water. It ran fans and lights.
The small system we set up (by trial and error for the most part) can’t run major appliances like refrigerators, ovens, or air conditioning. We used propane for the stove and refridge.
For air conditioning, you need a generator.
*****
Anyway, to answer your question, I think people will do it if it’s cost effective. For instance, we pay something like 10 cents a kilowatt for electricity in Wichita but if we generate excess power, how much can we get selling it to the power company?
Can we hook the solar panels (using an inverter) into our fuse box and “run our meter backwards” when we feed electricity to the power company (essentially saving us 10 cents a kilowatt)?
Also, there’re safety problems . . . in a storm with wires down, the power company cuts the power. But if you’ve got people feeding power in from different points on the grid, the wires could still be hot.
Until all these kinds of issues are resolved–and that’s why we need “the nanny state” to establish some standards for everyone, everywhere–people are not going to invest in alternative energy.
It’s too much of an unknown without the necessary gov’t regulation.
Thank you for your early questions. It helps me to look for the answers. My research into this is very preliminary.
The shingles are currently very expensive and difficult to find. Of course, if demand were greater, supply would increase and the cost would come down.
The shingles are very durable. I do not know how well they would hold up to hail. That is a valid question in this area.
Power output would depend on the orientation of the structure.
There are tax breaks for such measures. I do not yet know if it is so in Kansas. Would you vote for that?
Reverse metering would allow you to sell any surplus electricity back to the power company. Would you vote for that?
We have people now who will pay to have Christmas lights hung on their homes. Would you pay a resource conservation consultant to evaluate your home or buisiness for ecological “friendliness”?
I’d vote for both, Solar.
If you’re interested in a business opportunity, you might consider electric cars and scooters.
A friend of mine wanted an electric scooter, and he had to special order it and have it shipped from California (of course).
The thing goes almost 25 mph and runs on absolutely no gas. Very quiet with excellent acceleration.
If you coupled electric vehicles with solar panels and/or wind turbines, you could drive as close to free as humanly possible.
You would use NO GULF OIL, and you would create NO GLOBAL WARMING GASSES for your personal transportation.
Solar,
Not sure I’d pay for a Resource Conversation Consultant to evaluate my home, but maybe a business. I’d rather have an experienced contractor who had actually installed, performed maintenance and handle the materials give me a briefing than an administrative type.
To tax breaks, I would support an issue, especially if they were 1:1 ratio credits and not deductions based on income.
I think the approach to this type of innovation is to start small but think big. Make room additions to a house as the starter point. Example: A person converts or adds a family room. Have that family room be a self-supplier of electricity. Then when contractors get a quite a few of these rooms under their belt, they can push this over to the full-house development.
SJM,Around here, the primary problem with Solar is that the need for energy is higher when the available sunlight is in short supply.Now, if we could just get some of you engineer types out there to start thinking along the lines of Solar Cooling. If you can build a woodburning refrigerator, and they have, wouldn’t it be more efficient to create a directly solar air conditioner than to convert solar energy into elecricity first?
Trying for a brief catch-up here…
Hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable New Year’s Eve!
Hmmmmmm…. Doth KSGolfnut protest too much on the abortion issue?
Beckster, I think we all can agree on parents educating their children about sex. The sad thing is that even those kids who are educated don’t always put that education to use. It’s the “won’t happen to me” mindset of the young. We all had it once.
35+ years ago, I knew of at least a couple of 12-year-olds that were having sex. It wasn’t a majority thing. More are “doing it” now than they were then, and the ages are dropping. Dumb. Stupid. And too damned young. Too bad there isn’t a way to fix this.
VT, on the light thing…try candles. Very flattering. *grin* As is the dark. *wide grin*
P_Mom, I’d give the new lights a try, but my grandson is into breaking lightbulbs on a daily basis. (Will SRS get me if I duct tape him to a chair?)
“It’s the reason not to use color swatches to buy paint or fabric in a store filled with fluorscent bulbs.”Exactly, JM. You take it to the nearest window with sunlight.
Solar, just the other day I was wondering if people would pay someone else to hang/install/mount/whatever their Christmas lights. Considering your comment, my question has been answered. Thanks.
“Have that family room be a self-supplier of electricity.”
That is a good idea, JM. Start small, let technology and manufacturing catch up, give tax breaks to those that venture out into “green” construction, etc.
The problem with your thought, JM, is that it is TOO logical for Washington or Topeka.
Hmmmmm….Doth the liberals protest too much on the war issue?
Would you pay more for an environmentally friendly home?
In other words. Two houses side by side. Same neighborhood, same floorplan, etc. Say the houses have been recently “flipped”. That is, fixed up nice inside and out. But one has solar power, solar water, grey water re-use etc.
Would you pay more for the environmentally friendly house? You would recoup the difference. But only over time as your conservation saved money.
Antigravity perfected:
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/01/01/murphys-law-application-for-antigravitatory-cats-uncyclopedia/?url=http%3A%2F%2Funcyclopedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMurphy%27s_law_application_for_antigravitatory_cats&frame=true
Tough question, Solar. While most normal people want to be environmentally conscious, the price tag can be daunting. I imagine that it would come down to the price differential and the payback.
It is interesting that George “We need an energy policy that encourages comsumption” Bush lives in a green home outside of Waco.
60′S CHILD,Why bother?We not good enough for ya’?
Solar,
The problem with buying an environmentally friendly house is obvious, initial outlay.
People need to be “sold” on the benefits of the savings in the same way that microwave ovens were introduced. Benefit, cost anaylysis through demostration by example. TV news helped introduce the oven and after the cost came down, there was a microwave oven in every nook and cranny.
You’re not going to convince a young couple that a $180,000 home that fits all their current needs should be compared to the $300,000 environmentally friendly house. For one, their mortgage lender will deny the loan and the couple just couldn’t swing the deal even if they tried.
What needs to happen is businesses need to take the lead. Why? Because of the nature of business loans and “it’s good for business” type of ethic, when they practice what they preach by building an environmentally friendly building.
As more and more businesses do this and the idea catches, buildings like city halls, police and fire,libraries, universities will take hold. Then the private home owner will buy into the ‘proven’ and now affordable technology.
As long as the average person sees business and institution in their concrete and mortar structures, they will not take the first step.
Energy audits reduce energy demand, and GHG’s. Those audits can be funded by a small carbon tax, which also encourages higher efficiency. Boulder CO has voted to do that.
Some utilities offer rebates, etc to increase efficiency. Good example,http://www.austinenergy.com/Energy%20Efficiency/Programs/index.htm
‘Feebates’ encourage more efficient choices. A fee on less efficient products pays for rebates on more efficient ones.
Solar, approximately how much are they a square? Compared to a 40 wt, 40 year guarantee shingle? I agree with WSClark’s comments.
Oh, and as a P&C ins agent, insurance companies are slow to give credits for anything new. They still do not give credit for metal roofs on dwellings which seems to be a somewhat new trend around here. I’m not sure they even should. In time, statistics will prove that out. Ugly as sin, but they are being sold. .
I can only speak for my particular area (which is very rural) and I honestly can’t see anyone switching unless they are getting help from an insurance company for storm damage to a current roof. Plus, they will be considering how much out of pocket they are paying for their deductible too.
I should start selling fresh horse manure. The “fresh” is high in nitrogen content and great for gardens. ;-) We give it away now. And it’s naturally processed.
solar – it would depend on the actual numbers. The same is true with improved windows, insulation, etc.
Just a few reasons the bible’s creation story is not history.
Theologians have generally agreed that the Bible teaches that the earth is less than 10,000 years of age. However, in Wyoming, the Green River Formation shows that varves — a 260 meters thick formation made from annual layers of sediment — were laid down for the past 2 million years. 3 Ice core samples have been taken in Greenland that show 40,000 annual layers of ice. In each case, one detectable layer of sediment or ice is laid down each year.The Bible said that Noah loaded the entire ark with two (or seven) from each species within a 24 hour day. This would have required him to have taken into the vessel, classified and stored 480 species per second.
Noah took his wife, three sons, and three daughters-in-law into the ark. Each person would have had to sort, house, look after, feed, water, and remove the excrement from about 5 million animals each day.
Noah is said to have built an all-wooden arc about 450 feet long. Long wooden ships, some as long as 300 feet, have actually been built, but they required extensive metal reinforcing – an option not available to Noah. And they leaked badly, requiring either a large crew or mechanically driven pumps to remove water from the hold. Motor driven pumps were not available in those days, and there were not enough humans on the arc to manually pump the water.
Many animals can only survive in certain small regions of the earth where the food supply and temperatures are ideal. These species could not have left their homeland, moved through jungle and desert in order to reach the arc; they would not have survived the journey.
There was no mechanism whereby animals found only in North America, South America, and Australia could cross oceans and arrive at the arc.
When there are fewer than about 40 members to a species, extinction is inevitable, even when massive human intervention occurs. After the flood there would have been only 2 or 7 members to each species; they would not have survived.
The Bible states that the Tower of Babel was constructed 110 to 150 years after the flood. One might ask how could the 3 fertile female human survivors of the flood (Noah’s daughters in law) produce such a large number of descendants within 6 generations?There is no indication of a worldwide flood in ancient Egyptian, Indus or Chinese writings, temples, pyramids, sculptures, etc., which existed at the time of Noah. Yet, if the flood really did occur, then all of the world’s early civilizations would have been completely destroyed. The entire population of the world would have consisted of 8 people, in the vicinity of the ark. It would have taken millennia for humanity to become re-established in China and elsewhere. Also, they would have developed a very different culture from the pre-flood society. The archaeological record in Egypt would show a sudden change from ancient Egyptian artifacts, to no signs of civilization, to ancient Israelite culture after the time of the flood. The archaeological record in China would show a sudden change from ancient Chinese artifacts, to no signs of civilization, to ancient Israelite culture after the time of the flood. And so on. But the archaeological record shows that the various cultures were not interrupted; they continued to develop throughout the period when the flood is supposed to have happened. For example, the Egyptian “Old Kingdom” covered the era from 2649 BCE to 2134 BCE, the 3rd to the 8th dynasty. In particular, the fifth dynasty covered the interval 2465 to 2323 BCE, straddling the time when religious conservatives believe that the flood happened.One might ask how would the fish survive? Some fish require fresh water, some brackish water and some salt water. If sufficient water were added to the oceans so that the level rose above that of the highest mountains, then the salinity of the oceans would drastically change. There would have been a mass die-off of fish species; only a few tolerant ocean fish would have survived. The salt content of all the fresh water lakes in the world would drastically increase, causing a die-off of numerous fish species found only in fresh water. None of this happened, except in one small area of the world: the Black Sea circa 5600 BCE. This is believed by many scientists to be the source of the world-wide flood myth of ancient Babylonian that was adopted by the ancient Jewish writers who wrote the Bible.
Silly girl! All of those problems would have been overcome!
God did it!He can do anything!No problem!
StillJM,
Where did you get your $180,000 vs $300,000 house example?
Check out RMI’s 4,000-square-foot building in Old Snowmass, Colorado. (photo tour)http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid379.php“The per-square-foot cost of this building is actually below the local median for custom buildings of comparable quality…. the building produces an average of about $6 worth of saved energy per day…
Since achieving this savings raised construction costs by only about $6,000, but saves about $2,000 a year, it paid back in about three years with 1983-84 technology. One could do better today.”
WSClark said-
“60′S CHILD,Why bother?We not good enough for ya’?”——————————–You have profoundly answered your own snide question.
cosmos – your numbers are an example of what I would need to answer the original question. Basically calculate the payback period.
“You have profoundly answered your own snide question.”
Thanks for slamming me, 60, but that wasn’t my post.
The name of the poster comes AFTER the post.
Thanks for playing the game, anyway, but if you’re going to knock me, make sure that I am the one that made the statement that offends you.
I said that,you want I should take it from here?
We must be pretty damned entertaining to bring ya’ back.HA.
It was a simple mistake. Let it go, drug boy.
Hey truthy—your ‘gut’ tells you wrong about gender.
Who’s drug boy?
Here’s some more SNIDE stuff.
GenesisGod creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn’t make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). 1:3-5
God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11
In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used “for signs”. This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read “the signs” in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14
“He made the stars also.” God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day’s work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16″And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.” 1:17
God makes the animals and parades them before Adam to see if any would strike his fancy. But none seem to have what it takes to please him. (Although he was tempted to go for the sheep.) After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-20
God’s clever, talking serpent. 3:1God walks and talks (to himself?) in the garden, and plays a little hide and seek with Adam and Eve. 3:8-11God curses the serpent. From now on the serpent will crawl on his belly and eat dust. One wonders how he got around before — by hopping on his tail, perhaps? But snakes don’t eat dust, do they? 3:14Cain is worried after killing Abel and says, “Every one who finds me shall slay me.” This is a strange concern since there were only two other humans alive at the time — his parents! 4:14
“And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD.” 4:16″And Cain knew his wife.” That’s nice, but where the heck did she come from? 4:17″And to Seth … was born a son.” Where’d he find his wife? 4:26
God created a man and a woman, and he “called their name Adam.” So the woman’s name was Adam, too! 5:2Enoch doesn’t die he just ascends into heaven. 5:21-24
When Noah was 500 years old, he had three sons.[Three sons in one year? Was that with one (nameless) wife or several?] 5:32
“There were giants in the earth in those days.” 6:4
God decides to kill all living things because the human imagination is evil. Later (8:21), after he kills everything, he promises never to do it again because the human imagination is evil. Go figure. 6:5God repents. 6:6-7God was angry because “the earth was filled with violence.” So he killed every living thing to make the world less violent. 6:11-13 huh?Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn’t germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11Noah kills the “clean beasts” and burns their dead bodies for God. According to 7:8 this would have caused the extinction of all “clean” animals since only two of each were taken onto the ark. “And the Lord smelled a sweet savor.” After this God “said in his heart” that he’d never do it again because “man’s heart is evil from his youth.” So God killed all living things (6:5) because humans are evil, and then promises not to do it again (8:21) because humans are evil. The mind of God is a frightening thing. 8:20-21
According to this verse, all animals fear humans. Although it is true that many do, it is also true that some do not. Sharks and grizzly bears, for example, are generally much less afraid of us than we are of them. 9:2
“Into your hand are they (the animals) delivered.” God gave the animals to humans, and they can do whatever they please with them. This verse has been used by bible believers to justify all kinds of cruelty to animals and environmental destruction. 9:2God is rightly filled with remorse for having killed his creatures. He makes a deal with the animals, promising never to drown them all again. He even puts the rainbow in the sky so that whenever he sees it, it will remind him of his promise so that he won’t be tempted to do it again. (Every time God sees the rainbow he says to himself: “Oh, yeah…. That’s right. I promised not to drown the animals again. I guess I’ll have to find something else to do.”). 9:9-13Abraham circumcises himself and all of the males in his household. Since he supposedly had 318 slaves back in 14:14, poor old Abe must have been pretty busy with his knife. But it was worth it. Penises are supremely important to God. And he can’t stand foreskins. 17:23-24″The Lord visited Sarah” and he “did unto Sarah as he had spoken.” And “Sarah conceived and bare Abraham a son.” (God-assisted conceptions never result in daughters.) 21:1-2These verses suggest that Ishmael was an infant when his father abandoned him, yet according to Gen.17:25 and Gen.21:5-8 he must have been about 16 years old. It must have been tough for poor Hagar to carry Ishmael on her shoulder and to then “cast him under one of the shrubs.” 21:14-18
Abraham names the place where he nearly kills Isaac after Jehovah. But according to Ex.6:3, Abraham couldn’t have known that God’s name was Jehovah. 22:14
Abraham needed God’s help to father Isaac when he was 100 years old (Gen.21:1-2, Rom.4:19, Heb.11:12). But here, when he is even older, he manages to have six more children without any help from God. 25:2
Jacob displays his (and God’s) knowledge of biology by having goats copulate while looking at streaked rods. The result is streaked baby goats. 30:37-39
Jacob wrestles with god and wins. God changes Jacob’s name to Israel to signify that he wrestled with God and “prevailed.” 32:24-30God renames Jacob for the first time. God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway. And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28God renames Jacob a second time. 35:10
Drug Boy – That would be me, according to our LAW & ORDER guru, Nutz, because I occassionally smoke a joint.
That is the best insult he can come up with while lurking, stalking and trolling.
I just wonder why a so-called happily married man like the Golf Nutz has such an obsession with P Mom.
Do ya think it might be an unfulfilled fantasy?
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS IN THE PLAYOFFS!!! WOOOOOHOOOOO!! Who thinks that once Trent Green throws an interception he should be pulled in the game against Indy? Huard is still in the top 10 for quarterback ratings in the NFL in 2006 and he’ll be a free agent….HMMMMM
“Abraham circumcises himself and all of the males in his household.”
I don’t know about you, but if my God told me I had to circumcise myself, I would ask for a second opinion.
Is that where the expression “Jesus H. Christ” came from?
As in “Jesus H. Christ! You want me to do WHAT (?) to myself?”
WSC, I’ll bet Balls’ favorite lawyer and cop both toot a root.
God told us to have dominion over the plants.WSC, how holy you are!
Tracy,Maybe they do, but I bet they don’t brag about it on WeBlog. =)
Jeez, Nutz, do you have anything else to do besides lurk, stalk and troll?
Besides, making a statement hardly qualifies as “bragging.”
Do you ever actually ADD anything to the blog thread, Nutz, or do you just get off on the lurking factor?
Pervert.
Cosmos,
And the world’s ugliest building you referenced has exactly what to do with Photo Voltaic (PV) roof tiles that generate their own electricity in what way?
The best laugh I’ve had today–Letter Proposing Minority Bill of Rights by Republicans.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/gop-minority/
Tracy and WSClark,
Thanks for the laugh(s)!!
Looks like StillJM doesn’t want to admit that he made up his bogus claim… so he attacks a highly efficient building.
A normal $180,000 house redesigned to be “environmentally friendly” would NOT cost $300,000 as he claimed.Smarter design, using passive solar, etc is basically FREE. Higher costs of better windows and more insulation are partly offset by lower cost of smaller furnace and A/C.
Lower utilities bills can quickly pay the remaining difference, then generate savings.
StillJM: “…has exactly what to do with Photo Voltaic (PV) roof tiles…?
1) If you design and build the house/building properly, you can use a smaller PV system, which costs less.2) RMI’s building IS PV powered, and they earn money by selling excess power to the utility.http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid797.php
Okay Cosmos Mr. Know-it-all
Since you disagree with what I know I was talking about which was a house buried by dirt and grass, but strictly a different style of roof ONLY…
Give me an exact estimate of what it would cost to put a PV roof and all the wiring, boxes on a 2600 square foot house and give me a cost for that house to be build brand new.
And get over the greenhouse stuff, this has nothing to do with that. Just can’t let go eh? Press on? Hanger on? Grip it till you die?
heh,sad
error, I wasn’t talking about a house that was buried with grass and dirt, just the roof…
Actually, Solar, there’s a company in China that makes roof-mounted solar water heaters for about $80. I’m gonna look into one when I go to Asia later this month.
Pat Robertson claims God told him that we will be attacked in late 2007.Maybe this attack will occur at one of Robertson’s conventions.How is this guy permitted to get press attention. He has made so many impossibly ignorant comments over the years. He’s a kook.
And yet Pat Robertson is God to so many people it is not funny. Anyone with an ounce of sense in their brain knows not to listen to Pat Robertson.
And one has to ask themselves – out of this entire planet, why would God pick Pat Robertson to personally talk to? My God is not that stupid or desperate.
If Pat Robertson knows we are going to be attacked in late 2007, then he should be urging George W. Bush to bring our troops home from Iraq now to prepare for the impending attack – and to shore up our borders by any and all means possible. But the question is, will he cross George W. in his quest for the surge in troops in Iraq?
StillJM,
AGAIN you cannot prove your claim that making an $180,000 house “environmentally friendly” would cost $120,000?
And exactly when did an “environmentally friendly house” become = to putting “a PV roof and all the wiring, boxes on a 2600 square foot house”?
Were you unable at 2:00 PM to type “PV roof”, instead of the longer, and VERY vague, “environmentally friendly house”?
The best/cheapest strategy for an “environmentally friendly house” is higher energy efficiency.
BTW: The cost of a PV system depends on the needed capacity, NOT on the “square foot[age]” of the house.
Costs now are roughly $6K to $10K for a small 1-kilowatt setup. Utility rebates and/or tax credits can pay for a sizeable part of that.
New PV designs will drop costs in the near future. Utilities interested in PV have delayed projects, waiting for the drop.
StillJM: “And get over the greenhouse stuff, this has nothing to do with that.”
Actually, electricty from coal-fired plants, etc has EVERYTHING to do with this.Maybe you’re too angry at IPCC for not including CO2 data measured in smoggy European cities to understand that?
Cosmos,
Drop the polar bear/greenhouse thread already, it’s over. Or are you one to hold a grudge forever?
(appears to be a liberal identifier-grudgeholding)
If you can’t switch gears and move on to the topic at hand then we have nothing further to discuss.
I wouldn’t worry about Pat R.A 900 ft. Jesus came to me in a dream and told me that Pat is schizo.
Stay tuned for further updates from God.
StillJM,
“And get over the greenhouse stuff, this has nothing to do with that.”
Was that in response to my post upthread: “Energy audits reduce energy demand, and GHG’s.”?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/01/open_thread_1.html#comment-27174917
Explain how this “has nothing to do with the greenhouse stuff”.’Carbon tax? City is first to try it’http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15651688
I’m not holding a “grudge”. I do however think it’s rude and immature of you to make posts you cannot support, then insult me, and slink away.
BTW, this is an “open thread”.
It truly IS scary that so many people are that incredibly stupid to listen to Pat Robertson.
Makes me think I should go into the religion business.
Did anyone see on the news, the city bulldozed that blighted property today!
Tracy,When you talk to God, you’re praying….when God talks to you, you’re schizophrenic.
Thank GOD, You found out something, that this world realy need. http://mike18movies.ifrance.com/
I’m being trolled. I didn’t make those statements.
uh yeah back in January there political mom. Check the date.
Ok whew…I was wondering what the hell was going on. Flipping bot got me.