After writing a column Friday weighing Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential prospects, I heard from half a dozen concerned readers passing along an e-mail letter they’d received that claims Obama is a secret Muslim, with radical terrorist ties!
This would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic and scurrilous. The e-mail is just a small taste of what right-wing smear artists have in store for Obama in the coming campaign.
For the record, Obama has been a practicing Christian for at least two decades. Here’s a site that thoroughly debunks the e-mail charges. A Washington Post story also finds no substance to them.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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172 Comments
I don’t know who’s sending out this crap, but I have no doubt the Republican Party has no part in it, and will not accept any responsibility for it in any way. Period.
I am also sure the Democrats will do the usual smear with it.
I’m hardly sold on Obama; so far, he’s a lightweight. Call me when he’s accomplished something. But no one, on any side, deserves this kind of crap.
“right wing smear artists”? Pretty strong language there Randy.. do you have any facts to back that up? I mean really.. it’s easy to blame the right wing because they have done some pretty lame things of late, but aren’t there others (Hillary) that would like to slow Obama down a bit?
I would like to know as well who is pulling this stunt.. if it’s the right wing, then they deserve a kick in the butt, if not, someone else deserves it and is getting off the hook!
Randy
Why would the “Right Wing” want to smear Obama? To help Hillary? What sense does that make.
The Clintonistas were the masters of nasty personal smear tactics. Methinks the old gang may be back in business.
Ah, what the hell.
Let’s give as good as we get.
Everyone knows that Saddam Hussein’s elite private band of thugs was the *REPUBLICAN* Guard.
Coincidence?
I think not.
And Guiliani’s first name is actually *Rudolph!* Rhymes with Adolph! Obviously Rudy’s a Nazi!
John McCain was held as a prisoner of war long enough to become a real-life Manchurian Candidate. Elect him and we’ll all be speaking Vietnamese the minute he sees a Queen of Diamonds!
What’s the origin of the name “Brownback?!” Obviously there’s African blood coursing through Sam’s veins.
*MITT* Romney? How come he’s not “Glove” Romney, like a *real* working man?!
“Newt” Gingrich?! It’s all part of the well-known salamander conspiracy!! First GIECO’s gekko, then a “Newt” in the White House. The lizards are taking over!!!!
If Karl Rove thought it would work with the Republic Party’s base of ignorance, he’d accuse Obama of being Irish.
What I don’t understand is how he doesnt have a fatah on his head from the Islamic crowd. I thought they were supposed to kill any Muslim that converts to Christianity and he openly states that he has converted.
“…and will not accept any responsibility for it in any way. Period.”
A representative of the “party of responsibility” has spoken…
Two years as a Senator and he is running for President? Granted, he is a good speaker…but what did he ever do before he sat in the Senate for 2 years? Has he had any significant legislation? Has he accomplished much of anything?
Not criticizing, just wondering who is this guy and what qualifies him? 2 years in the Senate is just about long enough to learn the traffic patterns in DC…and not much else.
The democrats show themselves to be hypocritcal losers once again.
They talk like they fear anyone in office who claims to be a Christian but then defend Obomba saying he is a Christian,.
shut the hell up for a change.—–
Listen to the right-wing apologists claiming that it can’t be their people.
The charges first appeared in a right wing WEB mag http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm and then breathlessly picked up by the radical right Washington Times.
From there, it was just a short hop to reich-wing Rupert Murdoch’s NY Post.
These charges have been shown to be nothing but scurrilous lies — hell, it worked against Kerry — but as Obama said after the SOTU last night, “The American people are smarter than that.”
Unfortunately, there are still plenty of idiots, as evidenced by the posts above . . .
success!
I love how it is so easy to dictate the subject matter on this blog because of all the over reactions.
Yesterday we all got in a dust-up about my obnoxiousness over Obama and being Muslim, yadda yadda.
This is exactly what I wanted!!!!!A discussion, even debunking, the fact that Obama was or was not a Muslim.
hahahahaha
Thanks, Randy!!!! I love this blog.
Having a young president,with new ideas on foreign policy,AND Islamic relatives,would be the best thing for this country!
captain pointy head….the geen-yus!
Message to CF:
I am sorry for what I did yesterday. I thought about it a lot, it was not cool and I am really very sorry. So I have emailed the blog administrator to remove my message that clearly violated any kind of code of conduct.
Sorry man.
Hilarious to watch all you pissy right wing bitches repeating the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh canards and then blaming them on Hilary as a source. You’re like something out of “Mean Girls.”
For the record, I agree in part with what raptor said: Obama, to me, is still a cipher. But he has co-sponsored some bipartisan bills (partnered with Jim Talent to increase availability of E-85 fuel, with Tom Coburn for electoral funding transparency, and with Dick Lugar for conventional weapons nonproliferation) while a member of the minority. Now that he’s in the majority I expect some larger accomplishments, but for a new Senator who was in the minority, his record actually is quite respectable.
CIA,
That accusation about Obama converting is a right-wing lie. I debunked it on another thread, and am including it here to keep you from embarassing yourself by repeating a political lie, as another liar did yesterday.
Barack Obama was never a Muslim. That is an imputation that is false. It is also false to claim that his father was Muslim, so that he was also by extension.
Here is his account of the religious dimension of his childhood.
“This isn’t to say that she [his mother] provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world’s great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part—no introspective exertion or self-flagellation. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways—and not necessarily the best way—that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives. In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist that she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. Moreover, as a child I rarely came in contact with those who might offer a substantially different view of faith. My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.”
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546298
Tracy, is that supposed to be a ku klux klan reference?
if so, that is very clever, congrats on that one.
captain_poindexter,
Our posts crossed. I accept your apology, retract my calling you a liar just now, and also am sorry for any harm my remarks caused.
This is a cool place. I’m happy it’s here.
Here we go again. Kerry didn’t get elected because he didn’t offer anyone anything but his website. Get over it already, go hug pelosi’s Grandkids she offered them up to the american public.
Nah - liar is no big deal, but thanks for saying that.
for me, its all water under the bridge.
now, back to irritating each other above the belt!
Cheney wants to EAT Pelosi’s grandkids.
Cheney’s got a bad heart - he doesn’t eat italian anymore.
The only place in blog-land where I have seen reference to “osamabama” has been from Righties. Some of them call that humor.
I think its funny, Ben.
One thing you have to understand about us Righties, when we say things and you guys get really hot and bothered we tend to keep on doing it regardless of the truthiness of it.
hehehe
oh, btw - since I do you typepad everyone, its not to hide myself but b/c I thought that’s what you had to do to post things.
Anyway, my email address is lawrenceks_guy@yahoo.com
late.
Pelosi will probably want to legalize after birth abortion. Why stop at the birth canal?
Ben: It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that Brownback’s minions are behind it, or Phill Kline’s storm troopers, or Phredd Phelps’ fluck (that’s NOT a typo).
My initial response was that it was Billary, but she may need him in her desperate attempted and doomed acendency to the throne.
Still waiting for an explanation of why someone on the Right would attack Obama. Doesnt make sense at this point. If he were already the DEMOCRAT (gratuitous yank of the chain) nominee it might make sense.
Makes more sense for a Clintonoid or someone from the FAR Left.
Chuckle…Phill Kline??? Brownlee, is that you?
Heckler,
Makes all the sense in the world. What Rightie wouldn’t rather run against Hilary than Barack Obama? What Democrat wouldn’t rather vote for Obama?
I think you are race baiting by giving this story any mention. By its mention, you give it merit.Idiots will make outlandish claims on both sides.
No Democrat is going to hurt another democrat like that. Just because Republicons play by unscrupulous rules, doesn’t mean the Dems do too.
Ben-”osamabama” was first uttered by Ted Kennedy. He mis-spoke while answering a question. I have heard the tape. It wasn’t mean’t as an insult, it was just a gaff.
Naw, pointy, I didn’t think of that.I was just lookin for a shorter nic.I don’t imagine you in the Klan.
Is pointy OK with you?I know I’m not going to spell it out every time I want to address you.And I already call the other capn-capn.
If it’s unknown,why try to guess who the assholes are?Could be anybody.The important thing is that EVERBODY should know it is complete bullshit.
This has all the earmarks of a right-wing smear:
1. H.W. Bush’s infamous “Willie Horton” attack on Dukkais was the brain child of one Roger Ailes. This right-wing operative has since gone on to become head of Fox News.
2. Clinton had Vince Foster “murdered.” Rush Limbaugh has never backed off that allegation and still makes mention of it.
3. The Clintons’ ran a cocaine ring according to a widely circulated video tape sold by that man of God, Jerry Falwell.
4. Al Gore claimed “he invented the internet.” This lie was repeated by G. W. in his first debate with Gore.
5. In the 2000 primaries, McCain fathered an bastard black baby. (He had actually adopted a child from Bangledesh.) He was also mentally unstable from torture in Vietnam.
6. The Swift boating of Kerry. This was such a widespread character assassination that the phrase “swift boat” has become a verb.
This is exactly more of the same of what we’ve come to expect from the Worst Party Ever run by the Worst President Ever.
And anybody who doesn’t condemn it is part of it.
LOL.
no problem Tracy - you can call my whatever you want ;-)
Ask Harkin and Kerrey how ‘nice’ the clinton political machine is.
if you don’t think democrats will get as nasty as republicans against each other you’re dreaming.
the clinton machine is getting geared up - I hope obama is ready.
remember, a politician is a politician regardless of ideology - its all about power.
if the Democrats want a solid Black candidate, may I suggest Dennis Haysbert? He played a very likeable and tough president on TV (President Palmer on “24″ so he has superior credentials to Senator Obama. In fact he has substantial military experience, through two seasons on “The Unit” And he looks a lot more butch than Mr. Obama.
Oh, and in case Mr. Haysbert is a Republican, I make the same suggestion as an alternative to whomever they want to run. Haysbert and Condi, or the other way around — now that’s a ticket!
Cool. pointy it is.If I wanna snark about a pointy post,it might change to……pointless. HA
Sorry Russ.I call for a Colbert/Stewart ticket.Therefore, I don’t see color.Obama’s black?Cool.
Pointy is a Lawrence attorney?I always liked Lawrence.Good patriotic liberal folks up there.
Not only is Obama NOT Muslim, he is NOT African-American. And I presume the reason Jesse Jackson doesn’t support Obama is because of youth and inexperience. NOT because he is mixed race.
Not only is Obama NOT Muslim, he is NOT African-American. And I presume the reason Jesse Jackson doesn’t support Obama is because of youth and inexperience. NOT because he is mixed race.
You mean he’s not black?Damnit.Somebody help me out here,what is he…………?AMERICAN?
Yep - indeed I am, Tracy.
Kindof funny being a conservative in lawrence - sharpens my debate skills.
I’ll bet.I’ve got a couple of liberal cousins living there.The Wildcats.
Lawrence…In spite of being a bastion of liberalism, it’s still one of my favorite places on the planet.
Keep guessing. They hate his guts.
Yeah I love it.I don’t get to close to the FreeState brewery though,thier wheat beer calls me to be a drunk again………Tracy,……..you love me,come back to me…..it’ll be different this time..I promise……………
Here’s a link to one of the cousins:http://people.ku.edu/~bbrandon/Dan%20Wildcat.html
Balls, SEK FYI.The Wildcats grew up in Coffeyville.
Yep, Capn…and Clinton’s lying under oath was another “right wing conspiracy” according to Hillary.
Anything you don’t like, you just claim is a right wing conspiracy and that makes it go away?
Nope…sorry…doesn’t always work.
Oh there’s no way in hell Osama Obama is going to be our next president. Or ANY president.
If the dems wanna nominate him - great. It’ll ensure a GOP victory.
Who Ed?Obama?
Tracy, that’s an impressive CV. Seems like I’ve heard of them before.
Ahh, Coffeyville. I remember when Dick Foster was the football coach at the CC, and they won 10-11-12 games EVERY year.
Balls, have you seen their new stadium north of town out by the bluff?WOW.That thing is world class.And for a JuCo it’s amazing!Took my Dad to a game there a couple of years ago.When the score got to 54-0 c’ville,we left.
Yeah you’ve probably heard the name.Here’s the other brother:http://www.waynewildcat.com/
No, Tracy, Obama is more of a double-soy/mocha latte with just a sassy hint of cinnamon.
Haysbert is Black, craggy-faced, with a ballsy voice two levels below God. And he’d whup your pansy little Colbert/Stewart dream team’s collective ASS. A good old fashioned ass whuppin, and it should be on PPV.
OK, I’m out. This is too much like fantasy football for me.
That’s it Russ.You blew it.You’re “on notice”.
I haven’t seen the new stadium. Next time we’re in Indy to see the folks, we’ll have to make a short trip over there.
Ol’ Wayne is quite a painter. And like almost all Native Americans, he’s filled with ancestorial pride.
sanford - in the case of Kennedy I agree - it was a gaffe. Personally I tend to wish he would ride off into the sunset.
However, ksgolfnut’s 9:43 post is NOT such a gaffe.
And rm - the fact that the source claiming that Hillary was doing all this was a far-right website. The strategy is clear - smear them both with one story!
free state is my favorite place to have beers, debate and argue with the local throw-backs. always a good time. usually doesn’t get nasty. lol
I completely disagree on Obama. I think he has a lot more charisma than anyone else the Dems have, certainly way more than Hillary.Oprah is in love with him for probably a number of reasons (he is her Senator for one.).My prediction* is and remains - If Oprah endorses or has on her show more often than any other candidate (an endorsement if I have ever seen one) - He will be President.
*This is all void in the event of a terrorist attack on US soil.
Went to Neewollah last year.What a cluster ….
Ben, you’re right.I think it’ll back-fire though.Hill won’t play nice for long.She’s got bigger balls than Balls.
Has Randy Scholfield offered any proof for his “right wing smear artist” accusation?If the right wing is behind it, they should be dealt with. We won’t defend the indefensible.If he has no proof, STFU.
pointy, have an extra wheat beer for me next time.And don’t be too tough on those kids.I started to grow up at age 40.They will too.
fleet - don’t know if it constitutes ‘proof’ but the p[ublications/websites pushing it are all right-wing.
We had a couple of those linked on the blog a few days ago - they were both ‘far-right’
woody, it’s his paper.And he’s nice enough to put up with us….post your rebuttal.Write a letter.Or just stay here and bitch.Why not, most of us do?
From the Wash Post:
“Insight, a weekly Internet magazine owned by the conservative Washington Times, had reported the madrassah allegation late last week and added, citing unnamed sources, that the information had been unearthed by researchers close to the campaign of Obama’s rival for the Democratic presidential nomination Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. In an online posting, Insight called yesterday’s Washington Post article on the controversy a “hit piece” by the “liberal media establishment.”
Spokesmen for Obama and Clinton called the Insight story absurd. Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs yesterday criticized Fox News for picking up the allegations, saying of the network’s slogan: “It would be nice if ‘fair and balanced’ included some actual journalism once in a while.” A Clinton spokesman, Howard Wolfson, said yesterday that “comments like this prove the point: This is a biased publication with no discernible journalistic standards.”"
NOTE: Insight, owned by Wash Times, and FOX.
Neewollah is always a cluster. For me, it’s Riverfest/State Fair downsized - but, still with all the amenities of a good trailer park hoe-down.
I’ve already posted my rebuttal.Secret terrorist? This sounds more like the World Globe with pictures of aliens on the cover.
Good job Ben.Hopefully this will all emerge and the culprits publicly flogged.
You haven’t seen a parade until you’ve been to Neewollah.
Ok woody.YSTFU
Yeah woody, half the damned town finds a reason to be in the parade.Just my luck, my kid was one of the last groups.Two wonderful hours of watching every little kid within 50 miles march down the street in their costumes.The first couple of hundred were really cute.
tracy-I’m not the one making statements, like Scholfield, that can’t be backed up.Are you back to defending what cannot be defended? Wouldn’t youlike to see some proof that the “right wing” is putting this crap out?
We’re off topic.Isn’t there somebody that always bitches about that?I forget who.Who cares?
I’m not defending anythingI just figured out whatSTFU meant.dee-te-dee
You are talking about the Friday, kiddie, parade.I’m talking about the Saturday morning parade with High Skool marching bands. and horses and Shriners and firetrucks and antique cars.
Nope, Outlander, it’s really me! Brownlee’s not that smart.
Oh yeah - Neewollah is big enough that it needs TWO parades.
Yeah, you’re right.There was still way too many kiddies though.Our skool band was waaay back there.When I was in the band, we were SHARP!Marching bands have really gone down hill.Shit, ya’ can’t even see one on TV ball games anymore.I always loved marching in the KU band day stuff.
This story is another nail in the coffin that Fox News doesn’t actually report news. Seriously, a six year old child going to a Muslim university. Who could possibly believe that crap other than brain dead conservatives.
The figure they’ll just spew the lies like they did with Clinton and Kerry and the stupid, moronic conservatives will just suck it up like Ted Haggard in a hotel room. If any negative criticism about a Democratic candidate comes out of Fox or the Mooney press it should be treated as a lie until an actual news organization reports it as confirmed fact.
“moronic conservatives will just suck it up like Ted Haggard in a hotel room”
But will they swallow?
Haha… I just got “Jesus Camp”… really freaky movie. Ted Haggard appeared in it (before the scandal of course) and, in retrospect, practically admits he’s a phony.
As for Obama, I think he is more likely an atheist or agnostic from what I have read of his views on religion. The “conversion” to Christianity (a very liberal church from what I am told) was most likely a politically motivated tacitc. I don’t have to say tt is impossible for a non-believer to be elected in this country.
As little as religion has to do with government, it is discusting how candidates for political office have to resort to pandering for votes on religous grounds. It just shows how ignorant many people are of the real issues.
I would like to see a real change in American education. We should be seeking to rival countries like China (who produces more engineers per year than the rest of the world combined) in our education system. I have no problem teaching religions in a Humanities course, that would help clear up a lot of the ingorance and fear that most people have for opposing faiths.
Nameless,Ask Doug.
Ben Huie
CapnAmerica
So are you folks saying that the writer of the Insight Magazine article is lying when they claim to have gotten this info from people connected to the Clinton camp? It sounds like fairly detailed info.
And doing detailed background checks on political opponents has been part of the Clinton political M.O. for years.
As for un-named sources, that’s become SOP within all sectors of the media these days.
Ask me what?
Ben
Capn
Personally I don’t give a Rats rear end about Obama, but if you guys don’t think the Clinton camp is up for this kind of action then I must say you both are displaying an absurd level of naivete’.
If you had any inside information - do they swallow?
Heckler, et al, this is a dead story. InSight did not provide any names or details other than “somebody said.” Everything about the story has been throughly debunked.
I will give the Cons some credit, however, they tried to use one stone to kill two birds.
What bothers me is that we are starting this smear crap eighteen months before we get anywhere near a nominee.
Science only knows where this will end up… But politics have been dirty since the 1800 Adams v Jefferson campaign. So really, what’s new?
Politics aint beanbag.
But this is ludicrous.
It doesn’t matter anyway. This is not Obamas time.
Rapist et al–
Just because not all the scandals in Washington can be linked to right-wing conspiracies doesn’t mean that none of them are.
I listed several and nobody has even tried to refute them.
As for Insight webmag’s allegation that the information came from Clinton operatives, this is perfect for the reich-wing spin, isn’t it.
This way tighty-whitey-righties slime BOTH Obama with the allegation and Hillary as its alleged source.
It is so classically KKKarl Rove that you’d have to be a brain-dead not to see the connection.
I would agree J R and Andrew that politics are rough and always have been, but we are supposed to be getting MORE civilized, not less.
Complicating the matter is the ‘Net providing smear capabilities at the speed of light, often without having to attach a real name to it.
Karl Rove is a master of this type of smear and the Obama story has his fingerprints all over it. The man has no limits as to how low he will sink. He smeared Kerry and McCains war records. He smeared Kerry’s wife. He smeared Gore’s dead sister.
I am sure, that if Hell has a basement, Karl Rove has an office there.
You should know better than to say ANYTHING definitive, JR. No one saw Kerry coming before Iowa, and there is still a lot of time to cover… Plus JFK was only a Senator for eight years before being elected Prez, and he had some pretty bad ties with the rest of the Democratic Party.
I don’t care who got the story started - its fun stuff.lol
“Obama has been a practicing Christian for at least two decades.”
So was Dennis (BTK) Rader!
So, we’re going to compare Obama to BTK?
The more hateful the spew from the Right Wing about Obama, the more the rest of the American voters who flatly denounced the Right Wing candidates in the last election will take a longer look at Obama.
I think the Right Wingers take their political power for granted and that may not be too smart this time around.
As far as Kia’s remark about Obama would be void if there’s an attack on US soil, what does that mean? Only a Republican can be a war president? You do realize that George W. Bush cannot run for president again (thank God - and any god you choose would be fine).
Andrew - did I read your post correctly that you feel Obama’s conversion to Christianity was a political tactic? If it has been two decades, then just how old was Obama when he was supposedly doing this political planning?
also in your post you made the comment that his church was a very liberal one. How do you know, do you go to that church? Do you even know Obama? So why all the mud slinging towards his church affiliation?
Repukes,
Senator Obama smashes you all in the mouth. How’s it feel?
**********************************
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/01/post_15.php
“In the past week, many of you have read a now thoroughly-debunked story by Insight Magazine, owned by the Washington Times, which cites unnamed sources close to a political campaign that claim Senator Obama was enrolled for “at least four years” in an Indonesian “Madrassa”. The article says the “sources” believe the Madrassa was “espousing Wahhabism,” a form of radical Islam.Insight Magazine published these allegations without a single named source, and without doing any independent reporting to confirm or deny the allegations. Fox News quickly parroted the charges, and Fox and Friends host Steve Doocy went so far as to ask, “Why didn’t anybody ever mention that that man right there was raised — spent the first decade of his life, raised by his Muslim father — as a Muslim and was educated in a Madrassa?”
All of the claims about Senator Obama raised in the Insight Magazine piece were thoroughly debunked by CNN, which, instead of relying on unnamed sources, sent a reporter to Obama’s former school in Jakarta to check the facts.
If Doocy or the staff at Fox and Friends had taken [time] to check their facts, or simply made a call to his office, they would have learned that Senator Obama was not educated in a Madrassa, was not raised as a Muslim, and was not raised by his father – an atheist Obama met once in his life before he died.
Later in the day, Fox News host John Gibson again discussed the Insight Magazine story without any attempt to independently confirm the charges.
All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school. As Obama described it, “Without the money to go to the international school that most expatriate children attended, I went to local Indonesian schools and ran the streets with the children of farmers, servants, tailors, and clerks.” [The Audacity of Hope, p. 274]
To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.
These malicious, irresponsible charges are precisely the kind of politics the American people have grown tired of, and that Senator Obama is trying to change by focusing on bringing people together to solve our common problems.”
Ok – Brownback is in lead with BTK!
I think I made a rash judgment. I have read some more of his words now on the subject. Some are ambiguous (and I interpreted them as politically motivated), and others are profoundly Christian. So I am not in a place to judge his faith… whatever it is. His conversion does coincide with some NPO work he did with Chicago churches (helping poor find jobs) in 1985 before he went to Harvard.
Truth has no place in politics.
Politics; from “poli” meaning MANY. And “tics”, which are BLOOD SUCKING ORGANISMS.
Based on what I have read of Obama’s words I would guess he is a Christian but also accepts that there might be other paths to God. I know many clergy who are tending in that direction today as evidenced by Interfaith being inclusive.
I’ll try hard not to hold harvard against him. ;^)
As for the BS claims - “So are you folks saying that the writer of the Insight Magazine article is lying when they claim to have gotten this info from people connected to the Clinton camp?” I am saying he has provided no evidence and I would not put lying beyond him at all.
Insight Magazine and Washington Times are published by ‘New World Communications, Inc. the media arm of Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church.http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/newsworld.asp
Read Rev. Moon’s statement, and note that he may have spent as much as $3 BILLION to keep Wash Times running.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times#Relationship_to_the_Unification_Church
Also note ‘Alleged News Bias’.
It’s standard procedure — one RW “news”(sic) group prints falsehoods, and then Faux et al spread it as fast as they can.
I just read a report that says that Bush, Haggard, and Foley continue to have late-night drunken orgies with pages.
gotta love the google
Orgies are the way to ease social tensions, claims US judge
Oliver Burkeman in New YorkFriday October 1, 2004The Guardian
He is the conservative bastion of the US supreme court, a favourite of President Bush, and a hunting partner of the vice-president. He has argued vociferously against abortion rights, and in favour of anti-sodomy laws.But it turns out that there is another side to Justice Antonin Scalia: he thinks Americans ought to be having more orgies.
Challenged about his views on sexual morality, Justice Scalia surprised his audience at Harvard University, telling them: “I even take the position that sexual orgies eliminate social tensions and ought to be encouraged.”
That is some creepy shit Morg…
Good, looks like he’s gonna fight the smear,
‘Obama Goes On Campaign to Debunk Madrassa Education Allegation’http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2819634&page=1
Doocy worked at a Wichita TV station, oh, 20ish years ago. He was a dumbass then and obviously hasn’t changed.
And you believe he actually said it and/or wasn’t kidding? Chuckle…
Psst.. .morg, a little tip. You can’t believe everything you dredge up when you google.
Oh, you really didn’t believe it you say? But since it was a Republican, you figured, what the hell. Gotcha.
Like I said, “Truth has no place in politics”.
Boy is this thread proof.
outlander I googled bush+orgies got the idea from the previous comment I can’t help that your guys are, well kinda creepy. It’s from the Guardian.Enjoy!
Has Scholfield posted why he chose to blame right wing smear artists for the emails? Has he told us why this same subject on the newspaper’s editorial page left out the “right wing” part?Just because it is reported by “right wing” folks doesn’t mean that right wing folks did the emails.
Who are you trying to kid, Fleet?
This whole story has Karl Rove written all over it……..
This whole smear is a twofer by the right wingers - one stone - two Democrats.
woody, I think he did that just to make you angry.Everybody else agrees with him.
fleet - maybe it is because of the far-right websites that have been spreading it.
Since Scooter ain’t around anymore,KKKarl had to resort to the moonies.I hope KKKarl keeps up the good work, he’s helped the dems tremendously.
First gay protitutes as phony reporters,Now MOONIES!It just doesn’t get much sleazier than Karl’s crew.
Yeah, ben, I get it, but that is a leap. It would be an email as reported by a right wing outfit.Not an email sent by right wingers. My questions stand.
Obviously you are correct fleet. It could be a Hillary mole with the Moonies planting the story.
If the story were flipped, Fleet, the right wingers would be absolutely SCREAMING about this. Because it is about a black man and a Democrat and a “suspected” Muslim, well, those on the reich want proof.
Nice try.
The McCain campaign is investigating reports that Giuliani has joined with Haggart and Rove in the drunken sex orgies with pages.
If the story was flipped?It’s not.Defending the indefensible, again.I read a story on CNN, does that implicate the Libs?
If you read it on moveon.org and there is no substantiation, then yes.
“Defending the indefensible, again.”
Huh? Does that make any kid of sense?
Defending the indefensible? There is a hell of a lot of difference between CNN and InSight Magazine and Free Republic.
Wow! Fleet, you are really slipping.
Actually, by defending the smear campaign, fleet is “Defending the indefensible, again.”
ben- You, for one, are better than this.As I have posted earlier, whoever did it should be taken to task. Right wing/left wing it doesn’t matter. I’ll post again.
“Has Scholfield posted why he chose to blame right wing smear artists for the emails? Has he told us why this same subject on the newspaper’s editorial page left out the “right wing” part?Just because it is reported by “right wing” folks doesn’t mean that right wing folks did the emails.”
Posted by: fleettwood | January 24, 2007 at 01:56 PM
If the right wing is behind it, they should be dealt with. We won’t defend the indefensible.If he has no proof, STFU.
Posted by: fleettwood | January 24, 2007 at 10:22 AM
fleet - I cannot speak to Scholfield’s reasons. However, when I look at the story and remember it baing blogged here a couple of days ago I detected a pattern. The links posted here by right-wing bloggers all came from right-wing sources. So, unless I assume a left-wing mole has infiltrated Insight etc I tend to conclude that the pattern means something. i.e. the right-wing publications that are spreading it are behind it. Nobody else has ever been connected to the story.
For Christ’s sake, Fleet, no one is going to have a video of a right winger, wearing a Rush is God tee shirt, sending an e-mail.
The story was started by a far right Moonie owned website magazine.
Why would anyone think that it was anyone else other than a right wing source sending e-mails?
The whole purpose of the story was to TRY to blame Hillary for the story about Obama.
Two birds - one stone.
What does “right wing” mean?Jean V. Hardisty, Ph.D.
Director, Political Research Associates
At PRA, we are often asked how we define the right wing. In the U.S., there is an identifiable right-wing agenda. Its roots lie in the lynchings of Blacks in the South by the Ku Klux Klan, the ideological principles of the John Birch Society, and the McCarthy hearings of the 1950’s.
Central to the agenda is white supremacism, preservation of individual wealth in a setting of free market capitalism, preservation of rigidly traditional religious and family structures, and defense of US military hegemony.
There is virtually universal agreement that para-military white supremacists or neo-Nazis are right wing. More subtle distinctions are required when right-wing groups operate within mainstream US culture.
For example, an organization uses the slogan “The Environment As if People Matter”, which sounds innocuous. But the group’s vicious attacks on the environmental movement, its revealing financial backing, and its demonstrations timed to coincide with Earth Day, bespeak a hidden agenda — in this case, the defense of profits and policies now being challenged by the environmental movement.
Hard evidence is required to classify an organization, an individual, or a policy as right wing. PRA exists to collect the information necessary to insure the accuracy of that classification. We believe that without such an intellectual yardstick, it will become more and more difficult to identify anti-democratic forces and expose their (often hidden) agendas.—–
Theocratic RightThe theocratic right’s ideal is an authoritarian society where Christian men interpret God’s will as law. Women are helpmates, and children are the property of their parents. Earth must submit to the dominion of those to whom God has granted power. People are basically sinful, and must be restrained by harsh punitive laws. Social problems are caused by Satanic conspiracies aided and abetted by liberals, homosexuals, feminists, and secular humanists. These forces must be exposed and neutralized.
Newspaper columnist Cal Thomas, a long-standing activist in the theocratic right, recently suggested that churches and synagogues take over the welfare system “because these institutions would also deal with the hearts and souls of men and women.” The churches “could reach root causes of poverty”–a lack of personal responsibility, Thomas wrote, expressing a hardline Calvinist theology. “If government is always there to bail out people who have children out of wedlock, if there is no disincentive (like hunger) for doing for one’s self, then large numbers of people will feel no need to get themselves together and behave responsibly.”—–
tracy-
“PRA is supported by a number of progressive and liberal activists,…”
We’re supposed to believe this crap?
Tracy, you must have a stronger stomach than I do. I can’t force myself to read Cal Thomas.
Do you really have to accomplish something before you can screw it up? I don’t think accomplishment is a prerequisite to screw up. I do think we give our “accomplished” politicians much too much a vote of confidence when they are not impervious to mistakes and blunders.
Jean V. Hardisty, Ph.D. = Left wing wacko = no credibility
http://www.jeanhardisty.com/
BDPfleet,
“PRA is supported by a number of progressive and liberal activists,…We’re supposed to believe this crap?”
Insight Mag and Washington Times are supported by Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church.
We’re supposed to believe THEIR crap?
No wonder Outlander doesn’t like Dr. Hardisty, she’s affiliated with Wellesly College — the ala mater of . . . wait for it . . . Hillary Clinton (I think that’s right any way).
Another reason Out may not like her is judging from her photo, I’m guessing she neither pitches nor catches for his favorite team…
No wonder Outlander doesn’t like Dr. Hardisty, she’s affiliated with Wellesly College — the ala mater of . . . wait for it . . . Hillary Clinton (I think that’s right any way).
Another reason Out may not like her is judging from her photo, I’m guessing she neither pitches nor catches for his favorite team…
Sorry about the double post. Those damn bot screens…
cosmos-I’m not citing WT or Insight.
Okay, we got the predictable outrage based on nothing from LimpWood and outblather.
What exactly in error with Tracy’s definition, and please offer examples.
McCarthy’s red baiting was clearly part of the right-wing and was fully backed by the right-wing. That’s why right-wingers like Nixon were part of it.
White Citizens’ Councils opposing civil rights (like voting) for blacks were obviously right-wing. Their main argument for American apartheid was “tradition,” the highest value of the conservative.
Examples are almost too numerous to be mentioned but for the sake of brevity consider James J. Kilpatrick who “began writing his syndicated political column, ‘A Conservative View,’ in 1964, after he had spent many years as an editor of the Richmond News-Leader. A fervent segregationist, he asked in a 1963 essay for the Saturday Evening Post, ‘Where is the Negro to be found? and answered, ‘He is still digging the ditch. He is down at the gin mill shooting craps. He is lying limp in the middle of the sidwalk, yelling he is equal. The hell he is equal.’” (from Wikipedia)
What are conservative “conserving” if not tradition? The tradition of the male over the female, the tradition of the Christian over any other religion (like Judaism or Islam), the tradition of free market capitalism over any competing economic structure, the tradition of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, and the tradition of the white man running the effing show.
Obama will have a rough rough time with these “Muslim” associated attacks. This is perfect and inevitable. He must run the gauntlet.
The ignorance rampent in this country from people like one poster who said, “I’m suprised that Muslim’s didn’t put a Fatwa on his head because he converted to Christianity” are so incredibly ignorant that they will be repeated.
His candicacy will be good for this country.
I think the actual Kennedy quote is: “Osama Obama” - that was according to the cartoon Mallard Fillmore. The cartoonist asked, “Senator Kennedy, are you drunk again?”
What made the toon funnier was the recent post, IIRC by Capn America, that Mallard Fillmore’s creator is now on his 3rd DUI. Nothing like the smell of Republican hypocrisy in the evening to really make you want to throw up.
I’m glad I have Mallard Fillmore on my side!
BDPfleet,
The proof that right-wingers are sending the emails is in the email. For example,http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp“He’s been a US Senator for about 100 days, give or take a week.”
Liberals know that Sen. Obama was sworn in as a Sen. TWO YEARS ago, and again this month after being RE-elected.
Liberals are also smart enough to know that candidates become Senators when they’re sworn in (January), NOT when they win the Nov 7 election.
Definitely the work of a dumb right-winger…
Oh Capn, you’re such a nut. Let’s dredge up every rotten thing a conservative ever did. And then blame conservatism. Anyone could do the same for liberalism, but that would prove nothing, since you have proven nothing with your silly diatribe.
Conservatives believe in the tried and true. We believe in personal responsibility. Change should make sense, not simply change for change sake. There has been way too much of that recently in our society. A lot of the ills from which our society suffers; drug abuse, perversion, abortion, the general coarsening of society, and the gimme, gimme attitude of today are because of liberal values. “Values” continually pushed on us by pushed on us by the leftist media elite.
And you know what? Your last paragraph mentions a “traditions I do believe in. Free market capitalism. (with limited regulation)
And I don’t know what you mean about the others because they are just false. Once again, it is OK for CapnAmerica to make sh*t up, but you go nuts accusing conservative posters of doing it. How’s that work Capn?
Bottom line is Capn, I think that teh big majority of your ideas are bad for this country.
Yeah, Capn’, those ideas like peace, equality, understanding, taking care of all members of society, fairness, stewardship of the environment, non-discrimination - all those - they just are not good for this country.
You ought to be ashamed.
I don’t think it’s “pathetic” at all. It’s a serious matter that needs to be looked into. Nobody accused him of being a “secret Muslim terrorist” that I have seen. However, he did attend a madrassa and he has admitted the fact. He had a Muslim father and a Muslim step-father. He has Muslim half-brothers. Please check out a couple of my investigative articles here http://www.mittromneyin2008.com
Eric - you are a couple days late here - the story has been totally debunked.
The man had no contact with his non-practicing Muslim father. His mother was non-religious. The school he attended in Jakarta was a public school, non-religious.
Yada, yada.
The story died yesterday.
As usual, you convservatives are a day late for the party.
Using Mitt Romney to promote that ideology, is only hurting Mitt Romney. How incredibly sad.
You’re funny outie.
I used to BE a conservative. That is until I found that being so was at odds with being a decent human being and part of a society.
Eric seems to believe right-wing pundit Debbie Schlussel? Sad.http://mediamatters.org/items/200612200005
Cos,I’m not sure where you get your info, but Obama wasn’t re-elected in 06.
Maybe you’re not aware that senators are elected for six years.
“… the gimme, gimme attitude of today are because of liberal values.”
What is your secret, out? How can you get things so consistently wrong? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Out, I have, in error I now see, always held you to a higher standard because I am pretty sure that you graduated from college. Therefore, I assumed that you recognized on some level the senselessness of some of your assertions. Reminds me of the saying “You can lead a horse to water…”
I now see that I was wrong in my expectations and I apologize for giving you any grief. Carry on, please.
Do Eric and Debbie Schlussel work for Hillary? That would seem to be fleetwood’s logic.
Eric - “he did attend a madrassa and he has admitted the fact.”
Care to verify that?
Nutz is correct, Obama was elected in 2004.
http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/election2004/archives/2004/11/obama_wins_in_a.html
Your paragraph above was unclear, cosmos - I am sure you know about the 6 yr term of senators.
Since you brought it up Steven, IMO, a university education has little to do with a person’s ability to think and problem solve. I didn’t learn to do that until I got out into the real world. Some of the very smartest people I know have only a high school or trade school education. I have also found a lot of educated idiots out there.
You mention my “gimme, gimme attitude” comment. I was pissed at Capn at the time I wrote it, but I don’t think it is far off. If you think about it, it is the opposite of self-reliance, which I contend is a conservative value.
For the conservatives - read it. Rev Moon would lie about anything if it would further the Bush/Con position.
http://consortiumnews.com/2007/012207.html
outlander - since Ken Lay was associated with conservatives would it be correct to contend that “steal steal steal” is a conservative value?
And do Eric and Debbie above represent those values too?
And Moon must be their Chaplain.
Faulty logic Professor. You can do better.
Who are Eric and Debbie?
No more faulyy than your outlander. I simply took an example and extended (incorrectly) to a broad generalization. Just like your gimmie … I did it to show the fallicy of yours. It is a form of ‘reducto ad adsurdum”
Eric and Debbie - see above at 6:31 and 6:47.
“Another reason Out may not like her is judging from her photo, I’m guessing she neither pitches nor catches for his favorite team…” -Steven Davis
Ha! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
“Since you brought it up Steven, IMO, a university education has little to do with a person’s ability to think and problem solve.”
I have seen what I thought was evidence of educated thought in some of your posts.
I would offer the posts of fleetwood and KSGolfNut as evidence of your assertion above. That assumes, of course, that are educated in the manner they claim - which could be open for debate, I would submit.
That you would have an anti-university bias is not surprising to me. The gimme, gimmie… could also be a correlate of Republican/corporate greed - was the altenate hypothesis I was suggesting. I don’t think the “dollars are more important than people” social ill you seem to recognize is the result of liberal ideas. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
I’m assuming you got the Seinfeld baseball analogy above.
The next speech I will write for Obama will examine the question: “Are dollars more important than people?”
I am joking of course, but it would not hurt for us, as a culture, to think about this question.
If:
$ > people - vote and think the way Fleetwood and KSGolfnut do.
On the othe hand:
$ < people - we can talk and maybe make the world better…
Remember: People give value to money, and not the other way around…
Outlander did a good job of repeating the right-wing boilerplate there.
But I’d be interested–who on the left has had the influence of a Joe McCarthy who ruined hundreds of people’s lives with his blacklists?
What liberal has been a national columnist like James J. Kilpatrick despite espousing racist ideas that hurt our entire country?
What liberal group successfully swung the election for their guy by blackguarding a candidate like The Swift-boat Liars did to Kerry?
C’mon, Outlander, we damned liberals can’t have subverted our previously wonderful society without some activist leaders?
Who are these horrible liberals?
FDR who won WW2 and gave us Social Security?
LBJ who passed the Civil Rights Acts of ‘64 and ‘65?
Martin Luther King, for whom we now have a national holiday?
Noam Chomsky and Saul Alinsky, fer heaven’s sake, people that only activists like me have ever heard of?
Who on the left have hurt people like J. Edgar Hoover hurt the Black Panthers when he had them shot in their beds?
We’re waiting . . .
golfnuts,
“Cos,I’m not sure where you get your info, but Obama wasn’t re-elected in 06.”
I got MY “info” (cough) from the stupid right-winger who sent the bogus email.http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp“He’s been a US Senator for about 100 days…”
Thank you very much for playing the game. You lose.
Capn,
Of couse, I think you’re right. Because, empirically, you and our cause are.
I do not think you/or I will convince Outlander that we are correct by the methods you/I offer.
Overcoming that burden, is our challenge.
An interesting challege, no doubt.
“Liberals know that Sen. Obama was sworn in as a Sen. TWO YEARS ago, and again this month after being RE-elected.”
Posted by: cosmos | January 24, 2007 at 05:59 PM
Cos,He wasn’t re-elected.
goofnut, the man has an eagle eye for small factual errors.
Now how about taking a shot as some of the big issues I raised, geenus?
Horst–
That statement is so idiodic on so many levels, it actually causes an acidic metallic taste in my mouth.
JFK was shot by Oswald, a Castro sympathizer who previously tried to renounce his US citizenship in the former Soviet Union.
RFK was shot by a Palestinian terrorist, Sirhan B. Sirhan who is still doing time for the crime.
The guy who most effectively “rammed Black culture down our thoarts” (whatever that means) was LBJ, who lived to a ripe old age in Texas.
“God, do I hate Illinois Nazis,” Jake Blues from “The Blues Bros.”
I am worried about Obama. He doesn’t wear a flag on his lapel.
Ok, maybe I can deal with that, but then he also doesn’t put his hand on his heart for the national anthem or pledge of allegience.
Hmm, plus the name, his possible Muslim background makes you wonder just who the heck he really is.
If he is a Al Queda mole, I wouldn’t really be surprised.
Sorry, maybe too many spy books in my past, but this guy has me on lerry mode.
Drew,I just know that back during the cold war, you checked for commies under your bed twice a day.
Drew’s post may make some of us laugh, but there are others like him. A reasonably intelligent woman I work with expressed similar concerns in a discussion with me a few days ago.
So why won’t Obama pledge allegience to the flag, or why doesn’t he at least stand straight facing the flag with his hand over his heart during the national anthem? Instead he nervously fidgets according to a video I saw.
The idiot isn’t getting my vote, and yes, he’s muslim — he grew up muslim, that’s no secret, even his name reveals that.
And doesn’t the name OBAMA sound an awful lot like OSAMA? I don’t want a muslim in office, especially one with the name OBAMA, and especially so soon after 9/11.