As previously noted on this blog, brand-new Sedgwick County Commissioner Kelly Parks wants to talk to his fellow commissioners and county staff about possibly calling another vote on the arena.
“I have constituents that want to revote on it,” he told The Eagle editorial board Tuesday, adding, “I want to make sure that the ballot question, that the promises in there are kept.”
Our editorial today argues that it’s too late — because $106 million has been raised, the management firm and design have been chosen, and some properties have been acquired. Besides, the public already approved it two years ago. As we said, “Arena doubters should show more respect for the already stated will of voters, and for the positive impact that just the prospect of the arena has had on downtown.”
What do you think?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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85 Comments
Pouring good money after bad doesn’t make it good money. In a decade, when this white elephant is sitting empty, we’ll wonder what we were thinking.
A quarter of a billion dollars. Think about that. Look around Wichita and Sedgwick county, and tell me with a straight face that this is the best use of a QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS of taxpayer money. And a regressive tax, at that, to fund a playpen primarily for those with the most money in the first place.
Again, I note the paper’s a cheerleader for this boondoggle. What does the Eagle get out of this?
The voters have already decided the issue - we don’t get a revote on George W Bush, now do we?
If we are unhappy with any result, does that mean we can just have a do-over?
Democracy has already spoken.
Kelly Parks is secretly a communist spy for Cuba.
GMC - The Beagle gets advertising dollars !! No wonder Rhonda ( Couldn’t Get an Intern Gig on a Real Newspaper) Holman and the rest of the Beagle Wannabe’s are for the arena. You are right on — throwing good money after bad doesn’t make it good. If it’s such a good deal, why fear a revote?? BTW, how about taking the $106 million and funding the mandated new jail addition? Where the hell is that money coming from ??
It has finally dawned on most Wichita politicians, business people, and Sedgwick County citizens that the arena is a giant pig in a poke, that is, something we definitely don’t want, a GIANT EXPENSE FAR INTO THE FUTURE.
Sedgwick County voters recently showed their feelings when they voted out two of the three county commissioners who helped bring on this albatross. County Commissioner David Unruh wasn’t tossed out because his opponent failed to put up much opposition.
Park City Mayor, Dee Stuart and former Wichita Mayor Bob Knight expressed their misgivings about the downtown arena on a Channel 5 TV talk show on Monday evening.
WHAT SHOULD BE DONE? Keep the Kansas Coliseum and/or build a new arena adjacent to it and then demolish the old well-used Kansas colliseum. That way, we keep all the advantages of the coliseum: the existing huge parking lot, easy access to the freeway and to city parkways, AND easy access to the ENTIRE Wichita metropolitan area.
To try to retrieve some of the loss in taxes so far — sell the present existing arena footprint to a PRIVATE retail or industrial user. I suggest the site would be perfect for a new downtown WAL-MART in the epi-center of Wichita to take the pressure off putting a new Wal-Mart into the neighborhood on east Kellogg and Oliver or other similar neighborhoods.
A Wal-Mart would do a lot more to add to the developability of downtown Wichita. Shopping is the #1 sports event of busy Americans, all day, all night, seven days a week. It would serve the new loft dwellers there.
SO, LET THE VOTERS VOTE AGAIN ON THIS TREMENDOUSLY EXPENSIVE CIVIC PROJECT. THE FEELINGS OF ALL THE CITIZENS SHOULD HAVE BEEN DETERMINED BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH THIS $250,000,000.18 UNNEEDED, UNWANTED, WHITE ELEPHANT ICE HOCKEY BOONDOGLE.
or the Walmart Sports Arena…
or not…
nevermind.
It’s a done deal; the previous vote stands! Tear the Kansas Coliseum (barn) down.
Right on Derby Dude — Eventually tear down the old Britt Brown Kansas Coliseum “barn” after building a new arena adjacent thereto. Then use the remaining $150,000,000 that hasn’t been wasted downtown to solve the myriad of serious problems facing Sedgwick County citizens on a prioritized basis.
Build it and they will come
It’s a done deal. There is no turning back.
The people who are asking the revote are those who voted nay on it anyways. They just want to force there will on the voters until they get what they want. That’s tyranny.
It’s time for them to move on. The tax will end this year and it will already be collected.
But if the original vote had a parking garage included and if there have been other major changes to what was presented as the original arena idea, then maybe the voters feel they were duped?
And just because the tax is due to expire this year does not mean that the tax will do just that. I am willing to bet the tax goes on and on just like all the other taxes we pay.
It has to end by law. The only way they can extend it just to have the extra money for general funds or another project, then it must go to the voters.
The orginal vote did not have a parking garage. The orginal vote had to do with the question of approving a 1 cent sales tax for 30 months to build a downtown arena.
The parking garage will most likely be built. They have already planned for it.
How many times did the voters vote “NO” before the backers finally got it to pass?
That was a revote, wasn’t it?
The problem is that voters were blatently LIED TO before the last vote . . . “either vote yes on the arena or we’ll use your money to fix up the Coliseum.”
Guess what, they fixed the Coliseum anyway . . .
Conservatives and liberals agree–the downtown arena is a huge waste of money.
REVOTE!
It’s really disappointing to see The Eagle throw their influence behind this project for blatent self-interest.
Corporate media in all its glory . . .
Give us our money back, or give it to local charities. This was a bad idea from the get-go, and has been made worse by predictable cowtown incompetence.
The re-vote idea is out of left field and is not worthy.We had the vote (I voted no, my brother calls me a CAVE man, Citizens Against Virtually Everything), but it’s done.What? When we get something we don’t like and were out-voted, we call for a re-count or another election? I do predict that the tax will not go away. Somehow or another, the paper will lead the fight to keep the tax and use it for some high minded idea.
Joe Williams! The Wichita Business Journal did a poll that indicated a substantial shift - many who had voted yes would now vote no. After all, if you are correct then you would have nothing to fear; it would pass again.
I would like to see an article carefully comparing what we voted on with what we are looking at now. Cost is up; product has shrunk. The entire project has changed.
This thing was voted down in the past; we then kept re-voting until they got something through. Let’s put it back to the voters now that we have seen just what this project will be.
Refunding the taxes to the taxpayers can be done. On our Federal 1040s Line 71 provides for a refund of telephone excise taxes paid. Even though this does not really reflect what individual taxpayers paid in telephone excise taxes the Courts have approved it. In this case such a refund could be credited via KS 540 based on Zip Code or on property taxes. Or, we could even reduce the sales tax until it is exhausted.
If a re-vote should happen and be sucessful, what do we do with the land, etc., that has already been aquired?
There are probably many other things that are in movement now, what about them, what ever they might be?
“If we are unhappy with any result, does that mean we can just have a do-over?
Democracy has already spoken.”
We had a do over with George Bush and he won again. That doesn’t make him King for Life.
If the arean dies, what would that do to the citie’s image as a midwest convention center?
We already have the baggage of the State Board of Education fiasco to contend with!
Rhonda?
Joe Williams?
I’ve a question for you.
Are you afraid of a re-vote?
Well OF COURSE you are. That is why you don’t want one. You KNOW that the citizens of Wichita and Sedgwick county would OVERWHELMINGLY vote this thing down now that they know what it really is: a playground toy for the super wealthy.
Rhonda and Joe? Why do you hate democracy? Why do you want to get your way by deceiving the public?
GOOD on Kelly Parks for keeping this issue alive. I will be writing to my councilman Skelton today to urge that we have a re-vote.
The land? Make it a nice mid town public park.
jr-We’ve already had the Democracy. We voted. The End.
“If the arean dies, what would that do to the citie’s image as a midwest convention center?”
What does lying and corruption do for a city’s image?
Isn’t it funny that everyone who voted against the arena “was lied to”? Perhaps they just didn’t take the time to fully educate themselves as to the pros and cons. This debate is a typical example of “What’s the Matter with Wichita”.
BDP fleet
We voted yay or nea “Do you want an arena?”
Let’s vote with a bit more information.
“Do you agree to help pay for an arena which will have skyboxes and on site parking for the wealthy and no on site parking and poor seating for everyone else?”
My call? A revote would go 60/40 against the arena.
Why not put it to the test? Wouldn’t a second confirmation of a “yea” vote be a great draw for future attractions? Would it not CONFIRM that Wichitans will acutally go to events at the arena?
Let’s vote again. What have we got to lose but a big white elephant?
Well, I know when I’m told that if we don’t build a new arena, we’re going to have to raise property taxes to fix the coliseum, and then I find out that it’s not an either/or proposition — I WAS lied to.
I would also support a re-vote. I think this time it should be for the Wichita Metro area (Sedgwick, Harvey, Butler, Reno counties), not just Sedgwick County. There are many of us that don’t live in Sedgwick County but commute to work and attend concerts/activities in Sedgwick County. This vote affects us also but we were unable to vote the first time.
At the time that the Arena vote happened, I was a resident of Butler county, so I did not get to vote on it. But, I DID my research on the situation since I worked in SG county and it was a common workplace debate during that time. And I would have voted NO! We don’t support the coliseum - we can’t sell tickets or get shows there - WHY would we think a downtown arena would fare any better - ESPECIALLY with NO PARKING available - and for those of you that claim they are building a parking garage - IF you have read anything about this so called plan, you would see that the parking from that garage is intended to be VIP parking ONLY - That means only the rich people who can afford private boxes and special seating will be granted parking permits and those of us in the general public will have to try to find parking in a downtown area that is ALREADY sadly lacking in parking for the existing businesses. Another thing that really pisses me off about this is the whole claim that “if you vote for the arena, you only have to pay a raised sales tax for two years, but if they renovate the coliseum your property taxes go up.” GREAT SCARE TACTIC. What they forgot to mention was that EVEN IF the arena vote passed, your property taxes were STILL going to go up because the coliseum HAD TO BE RENOVATED because it no longer met federal handicap standards! So if it was going to be used for ANYTHING, which they already said it would be used for rodeos and the like, and if it was going to continue to be used for concerts and sporting events WHILE the arena was being built, it STILL HAS TO BE RENOVATED, so you are still paying for it! Granted, they are just doing basic renovations now rather than the complete overhaul they had planned, but it still costs money and they are still doing it. All the people that voted yes for the arena didn’t have all the facts - in fact, many of their campaigners didn’t even know the facts. They like to claim it will allow us to get a National Pro sports team, like a BBall team in here - but come on people, we couldn’t keep the freakin minor league baseball team we had, why the hell would a pro team want to come here? They claim it will allow more concerts to come here - if they can’t sell a concert out at the coliseum, why would they think they can sell one at the arena? It’s still the same consumer base… They claim that it will be more convienent than the coliseum - well, I tell you what, i would take the 15 minute drive out to the coliseum over the hour and 45 minutes you will spend stuck in downtown traffic at the arena ANY DAY! And, now that I am a resident of SG county, if there is a revote, there will be at least one more vote for NO over the last election.
As each day passes, WE find more and more reasons, to question the validity of the vote, For the new arena.
What we have going forward, is a plan that is far removed, from the original presentation. Had we knownback then, what we know now, ie: parking problems, easy access and congestion, expenditures for property purchases, etc. I think the vote would have been vastly different!
To say that the voting is a done deal and we should respect the decision of those voting for the arena, is saying that one doesn’t have the right to examine the facts and conclude that this whole idea, is just one big boondoggle, for the city of Wichita.
I voted NO and I still vote NO!
I voted no also, but it is a done deal. Stop whining about it. If you don’t like it, vote out those who “lied”. You people are quick with the “lie” word.If you don’t live in SG county, tough.If the arena dies, it can join the list with the ice rink, exploration place, cowtown etc.
It’s the same reason why Bush stoled the election.
If it doesn’t go their way, they were either lied to, cheated, voter fraud, intimidation, election riging and the list goes on.
You know what! I think the American People were lied to by the Democratic Party. We should have a revote in Kansas to see if Nancy Boyda should keep her seat.
CapnAmerica says that the county went ahead and fixed the Coliseum. I have to admit ignorance on this matter, but if he is correct, then Wichita already has a functioning arena. Granted, it’s old and not a pretty as a new one would be, but I see a lot of old houses that people are happy to own and inhabit. Maybe they could upspend to relocate to new homes, but they make cost-benefit calculations and decide, “We’re happy with what we have.”
Businesses often make investment decisions that they rescind as conditions change.
But of course when it is a matter of spending *other people’s money* the calculus is different.And that is the fundamental problem here.
Oklahoma City is *twice* as populous as Wichita. It has one arena. Tulsa is just now constructing *one* arena for a city that has 50% more people than Wichita.
If the Coliseum has been refurbished to functionally accommodate handicapped patrons, is that money going to be totally wasted, because the Coliseum is going to be shut down when the new downtown arena opens? Or will it continue to operate? Arenas require ongoing public tax subsidization for operations. Because Wichita has far fewer taxpayers than OKC and Tulsa, the per capita taxpayer costs will be higher here for a single arena’s operation, let alone *two* of them.
Maybe the money for the arena would be more wisely invested in making the proposed composite-materials industrial center *world class”. That would generate enormous economic growth. High paying jobs, whose holders would spend their incomes here. Sales of products to the outside world, thus generating large dollar inflows from the outside world. Sending a message that Wichita is not a wobbly 20th century city, but a 21st century dynamo.
Why are you afraid of a re-vote Joe?
Why if you won? Wouldn’t it encourage promoters to bring events here?
Oh and BDP fleet? Exploration Place is doing very well thank you.
“Exploration Place is doing very well thank you.”But, for how long. If you don’t like Exploration Place, then add Lawrence stadium or maybe add the Indian museum or the Black History museum or the Art museum.
Voting out, “Those that Lied.”
Does nothing, to correct a bad decision!
Proponents, were so eager to force this down our throats, they gave us an “either or situation” Even threatening, to increase taxes, if we didn’t vote according to their proposal.
So, We’re stuck with it! No Way out! Guess, I’ll just live with it. Wichita!! God love it!
I may be wrong on this but I seem to recall significant private investment in Exploration Place. In addition, it fills a public role in its involvement in schools etc.
I have not seen any private investment in the Arena; nor does it have a role to fill in public needs. It serves private interests.
I also recall being told by Arena supporters at their various presentations that (a) they would build sufficient parking and (b) they would have a large reserve for losses. Both of these have been deleted.
This only passed after several failed attempts because the county blackmailed the voters “vote yes or we raise your property taxes” guess what they raised property taxes anyways.
Hurray for public investment~~Vote out the “liars”, maybe the eaglebeacon will remind us when the time comes~~
“Voting out, “Those that Lied.”"
Well, I think we have some new faces on the County Commisssion - this is one of the reasons.
Exp. Place needed a 7 million dollar bailout 2 years ago. It won’t be the last time, you can be assured of that.
I agree the Exp Place needs to straighten up its operations as well. I wonder how much we will be spending bailing out the Arena’s operations, especially since they deleted most of the reserve fund.
OOPS~~ I meant private investment. We seem to have plenty of the un-needed public kind.
woody, here’s the grow your brain part.damn, I REALLY thought maybe you were sharp enough to figure this one out!
1) Copy whatever cutnpaste you wanna track back to the source,(at least the header & 1st paragraph)2) Paste into Google or preferred search engine.3) Hit GO!4) See what comes to the top of the list!5) Come back to WE Blog with some bullshit whiney remark about my source(s).
Can’t say I’m not helpful, huh?
This ‘Delirium’ show appearing at Kansas Coliseum for 3 nights in March is the kind of entertainment the yahoos in charge of this new arena should book for the opening. Instead, I predict we’ll have no choice but an Alan Jackson concert or something like that….or worse, American Idol contestants.If they could land Madonna, Springsteen, Mick & Keith, Elton, or Elvis.
You guys can wish for a revote all you want. I’m not afraid of a revote, because the arena will pass again.
Ben! You’re wrong. “(a) they would build sufficient parking and (b) they would have a large reserve for losses. Both of these have been deleted.”
They’ve address it and found sufficient parking all around downtown. People hold events at Century 2 that overspill into downtown parking with no problems.
And reserve funds are intacts. Actually the arena itself will only cost $100 million, that gives significate amount for reserve funds, in fact they have figured the amount for up to 20 years in reserve.
Private investment? Was there any private investment for the Kansas Colisuem, airport, Kellogg Expansion and a whole list of public infrastructure?
This is going to be our arena for the next 50 years, if your fine with the Kansas Colisuem for the next 50 years, then so be it, but the population of Wichita is going to out grow it big time. The downtown arena is for our long term future, not for our past.
There isn’t going to be any way to persaude DT arena proponets, just like there isn’t any way to persaude leftist liberals to be resonable.
You can scream and cry about a revote, but it isn’t going to happen. Just like the impeachment of Bush. You can want it so bad thatit’s your life’s ambition. It’s what keeps you awake at night. It’s what you blame for everything wrong in your life. But when it comes down to it, you’re going to have to accept it. If you don’t like it and it eats you up that much. There are plenty of other places in the country to move to.
As some of you know, I work in the special event and concert industry… I was told last night that SMG, heir-aparent to facility management in Wichita, will recommend to the county commission that the Britt Brown Arena be demolished. No improvements will be made, and no additional ADA compliance will happen.
Wendy is pretty much spot on with her comments. The county used 20 years worth bond interest (and the property taxes to pay for it) as the club to get the sales tax increased. She’s also right about the voters being ’sold a bill of goods’ as my grandfather used to say. She’s also right about the demographics of our MSA being insufficient to attract and retain a major league sports franchise.
What do people think? That our MSA will double in population because a big building was erected downtown?
I *do* believe that spending $200 million downtown is a good idea. I do NOT believe an arena was the proper way to spend that money. $200 million would have more than built the Delano Urban Village, part of that neighborhood’s master redevelopment plan. Right across the river from downtown, new housing, retail, and commercial/professional space for 2000 or more people. If you want life, people have to LIVE there. Arenas are temporary destinations that attract no loyality or stakeholders beyond those who profit financially from it.
The “arena” can’t be re-voted as it never was; the sales tax can’t be re-voted, either. The county will have $200 mill in the bank that by statute can only be spent on the arena. Like it or not, the Yettabenamed® Arena will be built. Lets make sure it’s built right, with adequate space to park semi trucks, park performer and crew busses, have parking for employees, stagehands, and media. The issue of ticketbuyer parking needs to be addressed. I predict: a local owner will emerge to develop parking. It will cost you more than the $3 the Coliseum wanted to charge. Oh, one further prediction: SMG will be awarded the management contract for Century II Convention and Civic Center, perhaps as soon as June… for some interesting reading, see what was said about Century II back when the bond issue was proposed to pay for it. Also check into the Transient Guest Tax (so call ‘bed tax’) and how it’s revenues were to be used.
LTB (Lions, Tigers, & Bears)
Guess what? I have a second vote. I vote with my pocket book. If the powers that be downtown can not develop the parking that is needed or decent streets to get anywhere downtown I will not go! It is that simple. If the project is well planned and meets the requirements of easy access and exit, I vote by attending events.This vote is one the county commissioners don’t have to approve but it is the one that will make or break the new arena.
I’m very pleased that Joe is in favor of allowing a re-vote. Darn democratic of him.
Arenas are yesterdays entertainment. In an era of high def cable, pay per view and the internet you will never get folks to walk 10 blocks for lousy seats to see someone sing a song or bounce a ball.
So let’s get this thing on the ballot!
I wish I had the money to build my 5 story robotic parking garage next door. Private investors could make a fortune because people will NOT want to park on the streets where the plan is suggesting.
Thank you LTB. I know that the “idea” of an arena is a good one. the problem is the REALITY of this one. JM - adequate parking for Century II events??? A) Have you tried to DRIVE in downtown Wichita during a Century II event? It’s a mess!!! and B) Century II holds, what, 2,000 people? The arena is proposed to hold, what, 17,000 people? Where are you gonna park the other 15,000 with that “adequate” parking? Ever tried to get out of downtown during RiverFest? That’s what it’s going to be like with this stupid arena.
All these so called “drawing points” that are going to bring bigger and better acts and pro teams and all of that simply DON’T EXIST in Wichita. Yeah, we all want it to be viewed better than it is. But the reality is, people here aren’t willing to pay. This arena is going to wind up a draw on the Wichita economy and taxpayers, the same way that Cowtown and the Ice Rink and all these other places have. If we can’t manage that small of a venue, how the hell are we going to manage such a large one? We’d be better off building a casino. At least people would go to that!
JOE! No, I do not stay up nights worrying about your arena. I do not blame it for everything. You are so full of sh*t that it is amazing.
Yes, you CFSMWs will get your Arene; there will be no re-vote. Not because it would pass again like you claim; the Business Journal poll shows otherwise. If you CFSMWs really believed that you would be all for the re-vote. You worry that if it WERE put back to the voters it whold get the same thing it did before - reject!
Your final comment is all to typical of CFSMWs - “if you don’t like it leave town!” Gee, maybe that attitude is why so many city officials lament the ‘brain drain’ of our youth.
Thank you LTB. You are right to point out that we didn’t vote for or against an arena but a tax that once collected could only be used for an arena.
We were lied to! We were scared into voting for a sales tax for a limited time so our property taxes wouldn’t increase forever. And we were told adequate parking would be built — not found to already exist blocks away. Anyone who says we weren’t lied to is just ignoring facts. I read everything printed in the newspaper. I’m just now learning their bias and realizing they cooperated with the lies. I thought I could trust people were telling me the truth and find out I was wrong about that too. I listened and thought I was well informed when I voted yes, thinking that was the lesser of two evils. I would change my vote if given the opportunity.
If we can vote to raise a sales tax for a designated purpose why can’t we vote to use monies collected for a different purpose? Why does it have to be a done deal? As pointed out by many other posters it wasn’t a done deal when the vote was no. They just kept bringing it up until they found the right lies that would scare up enough yes votes.
Perhaps in lieu of a revote on the arena, the “aginners” need to concentrate upon the state legislature to repeal the existing temporary sales tax increase statute and directing how the funds already collected are to be used, with similar pressure on the governor to sign the bill, if passed.
A revote in Wichita/Sedgwick County isn’t going to happen.
There are several reasons why people are against the arena. They believe it to be another graft gift for the well connected, rich, and corporations. Being envyous of the rich, they associated anything to do with rich people as evil.
Others are non-progressives and don’t understand the significance of municipality progress and renewal.
Others are hard core christian convervatives who don’t want government doing anything but for the advancement of religion.
In other words, the moderates voted Yea on the arena, the frige did not.
But remember! This arena sales tax is set by Kansas Law. Not county law. This was approved by the Legislature and signed by Governor Sebelius.
If you want a revote, then I suggest it be fair as it was the 1st time it was voted on it. Meaning that the vote be held during a Presidential General Election to maximize output of voters. That means the vote should take place in November of 2008. None of this trick to have the county spend $2 million on a special election in the middle of June when people are on vacation and the turn out will be very low, just in hopes that most pro-arena people are gone.
During that time period until the next general election, the progress of the downtown arena will continue.
Deal?
JOE! There are a whole lot more in the mainstream who are also against it. The Business Journal (hardly fringe) showed that to be true.
While I would have liked the re-vote last November I would go for one during municipal elections.
Why do you CFSMWs fear a re-vote so badly?
November 2008 would be after ground-breaking; obviously too late. Of course, that is your whole point.
I know you think I am fringe; but how about GMC above? Don’t you frequently agree with him? Wendy, LTB, Rustyford, J R, quite a few others.
Translation: “Anyone who does not agree with Joe Williams is fringe”
I hope your Arena is successful. However, I reserve the right to gloat when it does not and I pre-emptively reject any attempt you will make to blame me when it fails.
notice that Joe ducked my questions about parking… And Joe, for the record - those classes of people you listed above as being on the “fringe”? A) I dont belong to any of them, and B) I seriously doubt that middle income makes up the “fringe” of voters, since it is the majority of our population. (those would be the people that you referred to as “scared of the rich”) Perhaps it would behoove you to slow down and think before inserting that foot so far in to your mouth. I wouldnt want you to choke yourself. Yes, we all know a revote isn’t going to happen. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t express our opinions that it is needed because we were lied to about the whole proposition… That’s what they are, opinions, and last time I checked, we still had the right to express them in this country, at least today…
wendy - I think I smell a touch of fear. With new faces on the Commission, at least in part due to the Arena (defeat of CFSMW Sciortino), Parks’ attempts could be interesting. And, I suspect that, although CFSMW Joe claims it would pass he knows it would not. Otherwise why doesn’t he (and his fellow Arena supporters) just say “Bring it on” for the municipal ballots this spring.
Please post the link to the Wichita Business Journal.
I say let’s have the revote. But you have to have it during a Presidential General Election. Why are you so afraid of that?
That’s how we voted it in. Don’t you want the largest turnout possible? Or are you CAVE people afraid of that.
Again Ben Huie!
You don’t know what you’re talking about. You cannot have a county question on a municipal election.
Try again! Often wrong Ben!
JOE! Municipalities all over the County have their elections that day. They could piggyback it.
Why do it now instead of 2 years from now? That should be obvious; after ground-breaking we obviously cannot reconsider. As you are well aware; I wanted it last November. YOU opposed it.
I’ll try to find the old link - I posted it before when they did the poll. You know that as well.
Unfortunately, the archives I found don’t go back that far. However, here is another tidbit: “Do you thnk planners have provided adequate parking?”
Yes 16%
No 83%
Don’t worry Joe Williams!, it will not be re-voted. You CFSMW people will see to that. You CFSMW people feared an election last November; you fear one today. Sure, you say you might go for one AFTER construction since that would be truly mot but that is irrelevant.
I didn’t oppose anything. You had your chance to do whatever you want to do to last November. I or nobody else stopped you.
You could have formed a petition drive or whatever. But you didn’t. Instead you were wasting your time on this blog.
It’s not my fault or any pro-arena supporters. We voted on the issue in a Presidential General Election with more than 10 years of debate on this issue.
If you voted NO! Then that’s your vote. But the YEA’s have it. During a high turnout election. You had another 6 months after the election to petition to the State Legislature and the Governor to not form the Sedgwick County Arena Tax bill. But you didn’t.
You had every chance in the world. Now you want a re-chance until you get your desired results. It’s time to move on.
Yeah! Sure it’s going to recieve critisim. Every public project does. How many people regret voting on the 1-cent sales tax for the Kellog Expansion? Maybe a lot. They had their chance as well. Kellogg is moving slow, costing a lot of money, creating traffic problems and etc. Why not end the Kellog Expansion Project? All it benefits is rich people and those who own cars.
It’s time to move on. Or if you serious and willing to work, then form a petition drive. You have choices. If you think it’s a serious blow to our economy and will cause massive government revenue problems and huge unemployment, you still have the freedom to go somewhere else. Perhaps a more conservative community.
And you cannot piggy back a county issue on municipality elections. Because there are plenty of people who don’t live in the towns or Wichita. They live in the county. You have to include them. That mean forming a special election.
Good luck to you.
I’ll be waiting on the Wichita Business Journal Link.
LOL! Adequate parking?
Hardly a question to kill the arena project.
:shakes head: You’re really grasping for straws.
Try again!OWB!
shakes head … I hope this thing works Joe! I really do. I’ll be paying its continuing subsidies when it doesn’t.
Apparently the WBJ doesn’t keep their polls available after a certain time; I cannot find the link. Even though I in fact did post it when it came out you will say it never existed.
And again, I see the typical CFSMW people statement - don’t like it then LEAVE! Like I said, no wonder local officials worry about our youth ‘brain drain’
Actually, Joe, you laugh about adequate parking now - but when this stupid arena opens in three years and they can’t sell out any shows because people can’t PARK for them, and they do a little research and discover that is the main reason that people do not attend the shows (and I will be happy to save this conversation if you like for the conversation that is sure to occur then, just so i can say “i told you so”) You won’t be laughing then…
The way we voted in the arena issue does have some faults to it, as per an example.Just about all thru-out our legislation processes at the capitals, most bills are voted in by a two thirds majority of the votes.As to why the election process on the arena as important as it is, why was not done in the same fashion has me questioning the validly of that election.Perhaps in the future, when it comes to the public voting in on an issue that it should be done by a two thirds majority voting.
Wendy - I think you are absolutely correct. Then they will be back at the taxpayer wanting money for the parking. And, they will have a built-in alibi for failure.
Some years ago I opposed approval of an assisted living facility at Central and Maize. My reason: it would flood. City officials assured all concerned that everything would be fine and that I didn’t know what I was talking about. It passed CPO on an 8-1 vote (me opposed). Later on, it flooded (golly gee) As you can guess, I said “I told you so” to some of those same officials.
We won’t stop the CFSMW people and their Arena. However, we should make sure they cannot say “we didn’t know”. They have already done that with the additional land acquisitions needed for “unexpected” street improvements. They had been fully informed about that way back during the planning stages too. But that doesn’t stop them from feigning surprise.
I have the perfect format for a re-vote.
Of course it would never be admissable or binding.
Announce a “day of support and anticipation” for the arena. Announce it well in advance.
On the day of the event, polls are set up at the arena site. They open at 4 PM. They close at 10 PM.
In that amount of time, 15,000 people have to show up, vote, and then remain until polls close.
This would expose what few supporters this boondoggle has left to the realities of parking that the arena faces.
If the project did not get 15,000 votes? It would be immediately ended.
Oh sorry. I forgot soemthing.
Each votes costs…..oh say $35.
Good luck!
What’s going to happen, Ben, is when they figure out that there ISN’T enough parking for this stupid thing, and that’s why they are running in the red, because people won’t go to the shows because of the parking situation (not to mention ticket prices, which I am sure will be higher as well - since it’s such a “nice facility” and all that will need to be maintained) I am sure there will be another debacle much like this one to pass another sales tax to raise the money to build a parking garage, and it will be the same old song and dance they gave us this time around…
Yep. Only this time we will vote NO like we did so many times before. The CFSMW people will get it through the Wichita City Council instead.
A comment about parking and traffic. I attend Music Theater events regularly. We pretty much fill up available parking; I have an advantage because I have a business relationship that I can use for parking nearby. Traffic is congested but manageable; especially for a city person like myself (Chicago, LA, etc).
However, multiply that parking/traffic by 10 …
Wichitans are fat, lazy, and obtuse. The Metrodome in Minneapolis was constructed in 1982 and has hosted over 70 MILLION visitors with no on-site parking. Whine all you want losers, but your sour grapes ranting is EXACTLY what’s wrong with this town and why this town faces such a challenge in moving forward. Myopia runs rampant.
Ralph! It’s just the left on this blog. The amazing thing about the arena issue it is only of one issue I can think of that the radical left actually sides with Government minimilist such as Peterjohnn. But every time Peterjohn makes a statement on this blog, you should see how the left react to him. It’s vicous.
So when you say Wichitans are fat, lazy, and obtuse, it is only the minority who don’t want the arena. Because the majority of the people in Wichita are progressive and we voted for the arena.
They say it will never sell out, when Cirque du Soleil announced their concert at the Kansas Colisuem it sold out in one hour. They had to add a second show to their schedule, then that sold out within a day, then they said DAMN! Wichitians love going out to events, we have to add a third. And watch that sell out fast once tickets go on sale.
I think Minneapolis has at least some tradition of transit. Wichita does not. Twin Cities is also a great deal larger than Wichita.
Like I said; I hope this thing works. Fear not CFSMW people, it is not likely to get re-voted. You will get your Arena. And then we shal see …
ralph-The Minneapolis metropolitan area has almost 3 million people. I understand that apples and oranges (and sour grapes) are all fruit, but your comparison is, shall we say, stupid.
Joe Williams! Is GMC70 a leftist?
Like many things in municipal politics; this does not cut in the ‘normal’ party lines. You CFSMW people will get your way; so be it.
Yes, some things sell out quickly - I bought my Stones tickets as soon as the website opened. However, those events will not be enough to sustain this thing.
A colleagus has some of the old Arena campaign literature (paper copies, the website has gone away); he is unavailable right now. I’m hoping he can get some of the stuff about parking etc for us.
You guys don’t get it. Ralph was making a testiment to the metrodome having no on-sight parking, and still able to hold events without a hitch.
He basically saying, if parking is the biggest issue that you hate about the downtown arena, that is basically not really a good enough reason to kill a project.
He was saying that a metro like Minni/St.Paul can handle no parking garage, why can’t our small by comparison dt arena.
fleetwood - are you one of us leftists?
Joe Williams! How good is Wichita’s public transit?
When I went to Fenway Park in Boston I didn’t drive; I took the Green line.
No Ben! But as I said, this is the only issue I can think of that the Radical Left and the Minimilist Government types actually agree upon.
I guess you missed that part!
WRONG AGAIN JOE! Parking is but ONE problem. Neither I nor others have ever said it is ONLY parking. YOU KNOW THAT!
It’s good enough! The WMTA station is downtown but a short block away from where the DT Arena is going to be.
I’ve rode the bus! It’s easy, fast, cheap and it gets you downtown. I’m sure they can use those on event nights.
Joe Williams, you are correct. :0) It’s only the minority that are fat, lazy, and obtuse. BTW, it is a well-known fact that public investments often lead to increased private investment. It’s a topic for another day, but if you’re interested about the city’s 50-year old investment in Mid-Continent Airport, you can read this document: http://webs.wichita.edu/depttools/depttoolsmemberfiles/cedbr/AirportImpact.pdf
Ben Huie, We have mass transit here. If you’re referring to their light rail project, it’s only been recently completed.
fleetwood, your comment defines obtuse.
What is the other issue Ben? Other than you want a re-vote to not have it built. The only thing I’ve seen people cry about is the parking won’t be good enough.
SOLVED!
It won’t sell out at all.
PROVEN IT CAN AND SOLVED!
I guess the only other bitch is that it supposely puts money in the GOBN. That has yet to be proven.
Other than that! I don’t know what other reason you have. Actually! If I recall, you were for it in the early days of this blog. I guess your just against it, just for spite of me and to join your other leftist buddies. Follow the pack mentality I guess.
Give me your other concerns
I have ridden our buses - they are a joke. They will NOT be able to carry the load to support the Arena.
You CFSMW people will get your Arena and you can name-call all you like. But that does not change the fact that there is rising discontent with all the changes and increased costs.
Jow Williams! Are event nights going to end around 6PM? That is when the buses stop running.