Forget those girly-men stereotypes. A new crop of congressmen is signaling the return of the alpha male Democrat — and it’s by strategic design. "The members of this new faction, which helped the Democrats expand into majority status, stand out not for their ideology or racial background but for their carefully cultivated masculinity," the New York Times reported. These macho Dems include war veterans, a sheriff, a former pro quarterback and buzz-cut farmer Sen. John Tester, D-Mont. But now that they are in Congress, these lawmakers could create problems for Democrats. "These new Democrats have heterodox political views that could complicate Democratic caucus politics," the Times reported, "and their success may raise uncomfortable questions for those Democrats who don’t pass the new macho test."
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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105 Comments
Heath Shuler sucked as a QB, so no worries there.
Oh, yeah?Well, my dem can whoop your gop.Sic em hillary!
The whole ‘Dems-as-wimps’ meme was straight from the mouths of GOP strategists to get hillbillies to vote for them. That the media wholly bought this lie is very telling. Can you say ‘easily manipulated?’
Tester is a REAL farmer; not a city-boy-playing-farmer like Bush.
hmmmmm……Imagine that.REAL everday Americans actually running the country.How refreshing.
Phillip,
When I say that the DC-driven media (Eagle included) are a bunch of cynical, bought-and-sold motherfuckers who reduce the issues facing our country to this sort of trivial jock-sniffery for the express purpose of discrediting Democrats, it’s this sort of ‘reporting’ I have in mind.
CF, couldn’t it be panty-sniffery?
Seems like the perfect thread to post this fun little opinion piece.
Charlie Rangel Doesn’t Get Real Men
SnipWhen Charlie Rangel closed out the year by seconding John Kerry’s sentiment that men end up in the military by default rather than choice, he exposed something that many have long suspected not only about Rangel and Kerry, but about the Democratic Party itself: they don’t understand the nature of men.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=26394
TRACY,
No, because the subtext is always that Democrats are impotent, effete homosexuals.
So when the testosterone cup of any Democrat appears to runneth over, this is actually a LIABILITY, since it will show what a bunch of limp wrists the rest of them are by comparison.
Welcome to the up-is-down “logic” of the DC media, where the party of closeted homosexual rage (the Republican Party) is the manly party.
Nope, Tracy, it’s a bunch of MANLY MEN getting together and PROVING THEIR MANLILESS by BEING MANLY TOGETHER.
“I’m a lumberjack and I’m okay. . .”
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/imalumbe.htm
Heckler,
Charles Rangel doesn’t understand the ‘nature of men,’ eh?
“Rangel then enlisted in the United States Army, and served in it from 1948 to 1952. During the Korean War, he was a sergeant in the all-black 503rd Field Artillery Battalion in the 2nd Infantry Division (United States). In late November 1950, this unit was caught up in heavy fighting in North Korea as part of the U.N. forces retreat from the Yalu River. In the Battle of Kunu-Ri, Rangel led some 40 men from his unit, during three days of freezing weather, out of a Chinese Army encirclement; nearly half of the battalion was killed in the overall battle. [2] Rangel was awarded a Purple Heart for a shrapnel wound to his foot and the Bronze Star Medal with Valor for his actions in the face of death. In 2000, Rangel reflected to CBS News that “Since Kunu Ri — and I mean it with all my heart, I have never, never had a bad day.”[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Rangel
You Repukes give the word ‘pussy’ a bad name, Heckler.
This of course is the same Heckler who wanted–really wanted!–to enlist and serve the first Gulf War, but gosh-darn that bad back.
I, on the other hand, just said no.
Quick, name all of the Republicans, politicians and commentators, that served in the armed forces.
Let’s see………
John McCainChuck HagelGeorge H W Bush
Come on, help me here.
Ah, hmmmm.
Rage
Why must you lie?
CF
No one said Rangle was a wimp. He just assumes that everyone in the military is like him. Serving because he had no other option.
Don’t be so insecure, it just makes threads like this to much fun.
Just a handful who had “other priorities” than serving in Vietnam:
George W. BushDick CheneyTom DelayBill KristolWilliam BennettRush LimbaughBill O’ReillyNewt GingrichGeorge Will
Not that there’s anything wrong with that. . . .
Yeah,I think that was me with the back problem…..a yellow streak about 4″ wide kept me from joinin’ up! HA
Prominent Democrats that served
• Jim Webb, Democratic Senator from Virginia Vietnam• Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier’s Medal.Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57Chuck Robb: VietnamHowell Heflin: Silver StarGeorge McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.• Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. (1, 2)• Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat “V• Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. (1)• Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57• Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate – lengthy military career.
Rush Limbaugh got out of the draft due to a periodontal cyst on his ass.
Pat Buchanan got out of the draft due to a knee injury what he sustained while trying to kick a policeman during a protest.
John Ascroft received seven deferments from the draft so that he could teach at SWMS.
Bill Clinton pulled a 311 in the draft lottery.
I pulled a 202 in the lottery.
Okay, I got it wrong. No bad back (though he was “pushing 30″ and “wasnt sure I could make it through”, and Heckler only “considered” it.
You’re correct, Tracy, I think mentioned your back problems earlier.
“I did not serve. I was to young for Vietnam, when I was old enough I considered it, no one tried to talk me into it, my Dad talked me out of it, it wasnt ‘cool’ at the time…etc. By Gulf War 1 I think I was pushing 30 and figured it would be over before I got out of Basic, which I wasnt sure I could make it through anyway.”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/05/does_bush_have_.html
Or maybe it was MY back problems! :)
Heckler,
How predictable, coming from you. Discrediting Rangel’s service “because he had no other option.”
Let me guesss: ‘no other option’ = was an ignorant black man?
So that means that only the valor of men who have ‘other options’ counts? And that their lack of service actually counts FOR rather than AGAINST them because they had ‘other options’?
Shameless. Nothing about you, Heckler, has even a whiff of decency. Anybody who differs from you has to be made small, and anybody who agrees with you is vindicated by virtue of agreeing with you.
Pathetic. I misoverestimated you. My mistake.
CF
You been cooking meth with Ed?
Were the hell did that all come from? Read Rangles comments, read Kerry’s comments. Theirs are the offensive ones, offensive to all who serve.
Tell me CF, what did I say to discredit Rangles service?
Your mind is bending my words into things of your own making. I remember now why I don’t engage with you anymore. You go into a vapor locked rage and make no sense.
Take a pill….and open the window.
As long as they hold to what the party believes, I see no problem. I’ve never seen democrats as girly men in the first place.
“Yeah,I think that was me with the back problem…..a yellow streak about 4″ wide kept me from joinin’ up! HA”
tracy-Now that’s funny! I’m going to steal that joke.
Heckler,
Having read Rangel’s comments, I misconstrued your criticism. It was my mistake, and I apologize for denouncing you in the terms I used.
To an extent, the Dems did this to themselves.
In the mid to late seventies, when they became the party of radical feminists–the ones who said that ANY relationship with any man was EXPLOITATIVE–then normal man were naturally distanced by that.
A lot of women too.
Identity politics is not good. The Democratic party is not the party of women or of blacks or of labor or religious skeptics or anything else.
And if we try to become a party of gender or race or religiosity etc. etc., we set in motion an inevitable backlash as people who don’t fit into those groups run away.
We should be the party that puts the common good ahead of powerful interests. Anything else is short-sighted and counter-productive.
The Democrats allowed themselves to be swiftboated into a party of pink tutu’s. I believe it started with Carter. I am not blaming Jimmy himself, but the image began at that time, when Reagan beat him in the debates with that “there he’s goes again!” routine.
Democrats have lived by the motto of “we are better than bringing ourselves down to the level of fighting with the right-wing.”
Even Clinton, as President, did not fight back, he merely played matador to the Republicans bull. (No pun intended.)
A new generation of Democrat has risen and not many are going to follow in the pink tutu tradition from the Eighties and Nineties.
Hillary is old school – and that is why she will not be the Dems nominee in ‘08. Hillary fought back against the “vast right wing conspiracy” but she pulled too many punches.
Nancy won’t pull too many punches and she shouldn’t. I can’t imagine Webb, Testor, Casey, Obama or Murtha pulling punches either.
The backbone is back in the Democratic Party – and the Republicans should start looking for a soft place to land.
Good observations WSC. And one with ‘big cajones’ will be Hillary. She will give them hell!
Unfortuantely, Hmmmmmm, Hillary has hurt herself with her “pro-war” stance. I know that she had to show that she was strong on national defense, but the more backfired o her when Bush totally blew both Afghanistan and Iraq.
As course, you can’t use the term “blew” when conversing with Hillary.
True. But, I think she still can be a force if she takes the same lines several Republican Senators have taken – that they made a mistake in giving Bush the benefit of the doubt back then and that he had been lying to them. Note that a number of Republicans are cutting ranks.
Hillary will have my vote if she is the nominee. Several members of my family are big Hillary boosters. I would LOVE to see her get the nominatio and win the presidency, but I just don’t see it happening.
The fact that she is a woman does not affect my opinion, although it seems to make Republicans “wery, wery, ner-bous.” That makes me laugh!
We’ll see what happens, but I don’t think Hillary will run in the end, but the next year or two should be fun.
Is there any softer sissyboy than Karl Rove? GWB struts like a man but he “breaks just like a little girl.”
OMG, I laughed until I cried when I read this:
“Last but not least, there was a very interesting summary of the situation in the comments at The Carpetbagger Report post about the hearing:
Republican Auto Maintenance
Democrat: You better put oil in that engine.Republican: I’m not going to use oil. I’m going to run light and nimble.Democrat: You’re going to wreck your engine. You better add oil.…Democrat: I see you burned up your engine.Republican: I’m going to add oil now.Democrat: You don’t need oil now. It won’t help.Republican: Typical Democrat flip-flopper. You were for oil before you were against it.
Jim G., you are in a deep pile of shit now boy. Really freakin’ deep.
“Just Like A Woman” is one of my favorite songs by my favorite songwriter (I named my son after him.) and now you’ve gone and left me with a enduring memory of K Rove when I hear the song.
I thik I will puke.
CA you’re full of it about feminists. Feminist just want equal rights, and yes, some, note SOME who joined the ranks were man haters. But most aren’t, most just want equality.
So please, it offends me greatly when you refer to feminists as men haters, we are not.
This is what I found from a Congressional Record.
The House has 117 veterans: 69Republicans and 48 Democrats, including one woman, who is a Republican. In theSenate, 35 Members are veterans: 19 Republicans and 16 Democrats. They have servedin World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, and Kosovo, and duringtimes of peace, as well as in the Reserves and the National Guard. One Senator is aformer Secretary of the Navy. There has been a steady decline in the number of Memberswho have served in the military, which may be attributed in part to the end of theSelective Service System draft in 1973.
I think you should note that Capn said “radical feminists” – which in my mind is quite distinct from feminists.
I have had reasonably peaceful relationships with both feminists and radical feminists. But, Pmom if you think about it, I am sure you understand the demographic he is referring to. And, I agree, there are numerically more feminists than radical feminists. God or evolution look out for men, sometimes.
WASHINGTON /Bel-Air – FLASH: THIS JUST IN:Upon hearing the news of former President Reagan’s passing Tom Daschle took to the floor of the Senate to blast President George Bush and his administration.
“What kind of a country has President Bush turned this place into when a great American like Ronald Regan can be allowed to wither and die without any government health care assistance or prescription drug aid!”
When Daschle’s aids realized what the Senator was shouting about they raced to the floor and whispered into the Minority leader’s ear that President Regan was:
(A) 93 years old, and
(B) also was a multimillionaire who required no financial assistance from anyone. Also…
(C) Reagan was a conservative Republican.
The Senate Minority leader then replied under his breath… “Oh, bat shit..” and yielded the floor.
UTICA, NY – Dayle Nisi was hospitalized after going skinny dipping at a nearby lake. In a fresh water version of Jaws, a giant snapping turtle used part of Nisi’s anatomy as a meal. Nasi later stated, “I felt this excruciating pain in my groin and when I got my bearings, I realized a turtle had bitten my testicles and swam away with them. It’s not a nice feeling, I’ll tell you that.” (future Darwin award hopeful)
CANCUN, MEXICO – Rita Garcia, jealous over her estranged husband Pedro’s way with the women, broke into her his apartment and located his unused condoms in a drawer. She carefully opened a condom and peppered chili powder in one, resealed it perfectly and then waited for the results. After a moment of passion with his 19-year-old girlfriend Pedro was rushed to the hospital with his manhood on “fire”. Rita, upon her being charged with second degree assault said, “He wanted hot sex with that 19-year-old and he get it.” Damn, doncha love them senoritas?
MARSHFIELD, WISCONSIN – A man will spend 20 days in jail for urinating on an ATM machine. Apparently James Turley became frustrated when the machine wouldn’t give him any money and proceeded to pee all over the machine. Unfortunately, for Turley, a security camera recorded the whole thing in living color. A judge placed him on probation for three years and ordered him not to carry an ATM card.
This guy is my freakin hero!
Loved the one about the guy and the turtle… “It’s not a nice feeling, I’ll tell you that.”
Cracked me up. That is even better than Cheney when he said the day that he shot the lawyer in the face was “the worse day of my life.” I remember thinking, I bet it wasn’t a real great day for your shooting victim, either.
“These new Democrats have HETERODOX political views that could complicate Democratic caucus politics,” the Times reported, “and their success may raise uncomfortable questions for those Democrats who don’t pass the new macho test.”—Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Heterodox. I admit it. I had to look it up. Never heard of it before.
“As an adjective, heterodox is used to describe a subject as “characterized by departure from accepted beliefs or standards” (status quo).”
So basically, the concern is that these new macho heterodox Democrats have views that might not agree with some of the views of the Democrat establishment? Would those then be the homodox Democrats?
Just askin’.
I am guessing “orthodox” might be a better guess, outlander.
I don’t belong to any organized political party. I’m a Democrat.
WIll Rogers
I think that about covers this thread.
This from a medical dictionary:”Ortho- (prefix): Prefix meaning straight or erect. From the Greek “orthos” that means just that: straight or erect. Examples of terms involving ortho- include orthodontics (straightening the teeth), orthopaedics (straightening the child), orthopnea (breathing easily only in an upright position), orthostatic (an upright posture), etc.”
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4666
Please. No wisecracks from the peanut gallery. Especially from those for whom “peanut” describes an important part of your anatomy.
What is stoyr about the turtle?
P_Mom–
I knew I was gonna catch hell for that, and maybe you’re right.
But I think there’s an awful lot of re-writing history going on about radical feminism in the 70’s.
I dated a woman at the time–two years steady–who was ardent. I considered myself a feminist until I became the enemy.
It’s not so much that feminism at the time was “man-hating,” as it was just silly. By focusing totally on gender, it ignored much more important causes of civil inequality such as CLASS.
To say that a kid growing up without indoor plumbing in Appalachia is somehow part of the “white male power structure” because he has a Y chromosone is just ludicrous.
Then in the eighties, feminists totally re-engineered their message and said it’s fine to be a housewife, we just want choice.
Well, I was there, and I heard what I heard, and that WASN’T what they were saying ten years before.
It’s fine to change your message. It’s not fine to pretend that you didn’t change it.
Wasn’t it only about 8 years ago that feminists at WSU photocopied men’s names from the phone book and tacked them on telephone polls under the headline “POTENTIAL RAPISTS.”
Not a good way to win hearts and minds–and it provides a feeding frenzy for the right-wing backlash.
I just wish the feminist idea of going bra less would come back into fashion. I didn’t agree a lot with them, but I was on board with that.
Fleettwood–He’s a parody of himself.
What a maroon.
You are plagarizing from Bugs Bunny.
Funny stuff J M Walker! heh heh
I’m glad that idiot Daschle is out of the Senate, he was a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Men are potential rapist. But all of us are potential killers, thieves and drug addicts as long as we are alive. “Potential” just means that we CAN do something- not that we ever WILL do something.
The Democrats cannot allow the GOP to make them look wimpy anymore. There was never any truth to it anyway but the GOP did a masterful job in making the Democrats out to be “the sissy party” by using phrases like “weak on defense” and “soft on crime”. The facts are that the Democrats won wars and the only war we lost was lost by Ford, a Republican. And the fact is that, for your average crime, 2 of the states with the toughest sentencing laws are Illinois (50/50 no parole) and California (3 strikes and 30 years hard) both of which are blue states. And George Allen and Jon Tester can whup any GOP Senator in a fist fight too.
JM,
“Funny stuff J M Walker! heh heh
I’m glad that idiot Daschle is out of the Senate, he was a trainwreck waiting to happen.”
You like this about Daschle?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/01/make_way_for_th.html#comment-27676212
It’s from ‘The Newz.com twisted humor magazine’http://www.thenewz.com/
CA then it makes no sense that you claim you were a feminist too, till she turned on you.
You subscribed to her beliefs, till things went bad?
No, there have always been radicals in every group. But the feminist movement would have never been so strong had not women of all types rose up. The movement almost died because of a very vocal radical minority that made the rest of us look bad. Most of the feminists I know are happily married with fabulous supportive families.
I’m just tired of feminist being a bad word.
p mom
Feminist is a dirty word because the leaders of the movement said crap like “all sex is rape”.
There are radicals in every organization but most women who describe themselves as feminists are just looking for equality. It is a sad fact that equality is still not there women. We still get paid less then men and we are still treated like second class citizens in this country. Women’s issues are ignored by the govenment. That’s why we had insurance companies refusing to pay for women’s contraceptives but paying for Viagra.That’s why we still need the equal rights amendment even though it will not happen. The glass ceiling exists even in my profession which is predominately women. It really pisses me off when I see women in my profession defer to a man. Most of them can’t hold a candle to the women but we still pormote them faster.
Gender equality is a MYTH, as is racial equality, deal with it.
viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ian,That’s the point. I do deal with it everyday. I have managed to succeed in spite of it. It doesn’t change the fact that I should not have to deal with it.
brenda- surely you will be one to rebuke Barbara Boxer for her rude comments to Condi. hmmmmmm?
Fleetwood,I don’t think being rude to anyone is the way to handle anything but I think you have to take the statement in it’s entire context not just pull out the parts you like or didn’t like. I believe that Condi is a smart acomplished woman but I also know that it’s really easy to talk about troop numbers and the need to escalate and “win” the “regional conflict” as GW kept referring to the civil war in Iraq. It changes your whole perspective when it is your child that is being shot at, blown up, and killed. By the way my son has been blown up three times and shot at numerous times. I have had to examine this war from a perspective I never wanted to have. I can tell you that if my son is killed in this mess that GW created he will think Cindy was a walk in the park!
Our “defending the indefensible” number has now grown to 4 with Brenda, a woman presumably, being the latest. If a Repub would say what ms Boxer said to a childless woman, I am sure your tune would be different.That, my friends, is the definition of hypocrisy.
Fleetwood,I find it interesting that you think Ms. Boxer’s statements are “indefensible” but yet you don’t think what GW and his groupies, of which Condi is part of, indefensible. I guess lying is ok if Republicans do it.I never cease to be amazed that there are people who defend what GW and his cohorts have done to this country. I guess the fact that we have become the laughing stock of the world in other civilized countries and the most hated in uncilivized countries makes you proud. We helped Sadam then we hated Sadam. We helped the Shah of Iran. We are hated for many reasons but no one seems to remember those things. We earned our reputation as the “ugly Americans.”
And yes, I am a woman. What was your first clue?
So, you agree with what ms Boxer said to ms Rice? I would hope that we have made more progress than that when it comes to women’s issues. You know, the choice to marry (or not), have kids (or not), etc.. Having ms Boxer throw all that in Condi’s face seemed somehow so 1950’s. You people’s blind hatred for Bush causes you to even dismiss your own legacies.Also, you may think it if you wish, but I don’t think September 11th should be blamed on America. Feel free though. It’s your right.
You’re an idiot, fellatewood.
Here’s what Senator Boxer said to Secretary Rice:
“Now, the issue is who pays the price. Who pays the price? I’m not going to pay a personal price. My kids are too old and my grandchild is too young. You’re not going to pay a particular price, as I understand it, with an immediate family. So who pays the price? The American military and their families.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2007/01/boxing_condi.html
All Boxer said was that Condi had no skin in the Iraq game–just like Boxer doesn’t either because he has no children or grandchildren there.
When Wingnuts bitches like you are losing the argument, fellatewood, it’s only a matter of time before the red herring gets thrown out there. Kind of like when Lynne Cheney had her phony hissy fit over John Kerry calling Mary Cheney a…lesbian.
Condi better get used to being called out. Competence counts, and she’s shown none whatever.
fleet,
“I would hope that we have made more progress than that when it comes to women’s issues. You know, the choice to marry (or not), have kids (or not), etc..”
Defend this: Rice is not married, i.e. childless, and too weak.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20004374_2,00.html“Do you think there’s anything a woman would do differently with the Presidency?Mrs. Bush: … But it isn’t easy to live here. Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is SINGLE, her parents are no longer living, she’s an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job.”
So it comes down to: If you don’t have kids (or skins) in the game, you are not qualified to make decisions. This is unbelievable. I don’t know where to start. The truth is ms Boxer was out of line and you blind people won’t see it.Democrat party = used to be the party of feminists.
With CF and I it would be 5 and 6 posters now who call you out on your little tiff fleetwood.
Hey why didn’t you say Boxer “hit Rice below the ovaries”? YOU know like Rush Limbaugh did when he started this whole plaintive rant? It was him or Hannity that you got your motivation from after all.
Get over it. Boxer’s words were true. Your masters attempts to twist them into something they were not stinks of sad desperation. Call it “GOPsweats”!
Ms Rice’s own words when asked to comment on ms Boxer’s questioning:
“”I guess that means I don’t have kids. Was that the purpose of that?” Rice said. “Well, at the time I just found it a bit confusing frankly. But in retrospect, gee, I thought single women had come further than that. That the only question is are you making good decisions because you have kids?”"
How many presidents had children of fighting age or no children at all or had only female children?
Hypocrits, all of you.
Fleettwood–
You CONs crack me up.
Boxer says something that any non-brain-dead person already knows, and you CONs cannot contain your urine for the outrage.
The context of her comment is what Democratic (i.e., non-brain-dead) leaders have been saying for a long time: if this war is really worth fighting, why are so few doing all the sacrificing?
The rich can’t even be troubled to give up part of their tax breaks.
The only thing people like Fleettwood do to “support the troops” is put a magnet on their car (a sticker might hurt the finish).
We want to bring them home . . . like a majority of Americans, like a majority of Iraqis, and like a majority of the soldiers themselves.
The list of defending the indefensible grows.
P_Mom–
Yep, we can go around and around on this.
But the moral of the story is don’t go out of your way to alienate people who are already on your side.
I never stopped being a feminist btw, that’s why I support the ERA, family leave act etc., and women’s choice for reproductive rights.
But the radicals weren’t then and aren’t now that concerned with effecting social change.
They were interested in forcing a dogma, a party line, down everybody else’s throat.
That’s why you still find feminist academics whining about non-issues like “gender inclusive language” and ignoring real issues like the war on the middle class and the struggles of single moms.
Consider this scenario–the head of the women’s study department pulls down 75 K for 9 month’s work in her comfortable air conditioned office. A working-stiff hard hat is out in the parking lot is busting up concrete in the August sun or January blast all year for half that.
How is he part of the “white male power structure” again? And how has she been discriminated against, Lord, what discrimination she has known?
That’s what I mean. Class trumps gender every time.
You people have proven today that a woman’s place is married with kids. Otherwise, she has no business being in the top level of goverment.My, how the worm has turned.
Rice said. “Well, at the time I just found it a bit confusing frankly.
She found “who pays the price” (said many times) “confusing”, and all about HER being “single”? That’s troubling, considering her power.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/washington/11TRANSCRIPT-BOXER.html?pagewanted=all—The decision re an escalation should be based on whether the results justify the sacrifices of those WHO PAY the PRICE — the American military, their families, and friends.How many casualities, and injuries? Will it work? Not likely, hasn’t before.
Fleetwood,You can choose to see Boxer’s comments as an attack on Condi’s femaleness or her lack of children but that is not what it was about. Again you have taken her comments out of context and run down a crazy road.I do think that if you have children in this war it changes the way you see it. I never said that 9/11 was necessarily our fault but as a country we rarely take others into consideration when we make choices. When our government only thinks in terms of this country’s interests there is a price to be paid for that. We helped Osama and are shocked that he turned on us. We supported Saddam and he turned on us. Do you think that citizens in Iraq are unaware of our past sins? If Saddam tortured and killed your family and you knew the US put and kept him in power wouldn’t you be pissed? I am just surprised that we thought it would never come to our shores. Europe knows what war feels like even after all these years. Other that the Revolutionary War and Pearl Harbor we have never had war on our shores. We are just now having to deal with what everyone else has been through. I am very sorry for those who lost loved ones in the Twin Towers but why didn’t we anticipate this? Because we are arrogant. Why did we think that the Iraqi’s were going to greet us with open arms? Because we are arrogant and haven’t bothered to study the culture! So yes, like it or not we bring many things on ourselves.
“I am very sorry for those who lost loved ones in the Twin Towers but why didn’t we anticipate this?Because we are arrogant and haven’t bothered to study the culture! So yes, like it or not we bring many things on ourselves.”Brenda- You are the perfect example of the Libs. You people get angry when accuse of the Blame America First or 9/11 was America’s fault, but look at you.You people.”I am very sorry for those who lost loved ones BUT…”
You people suck.
FW,At least we share a similar sentiment. I think you “doublesuck!”
I also get sick to my stomach everytime I hear of another soldier dying and they don’t even talk about those that horribly maimed in this needless, senseless, reasonless war! Where is your outrage for them?
Fleettwood–
You distorted Brenda’s comment.
She didn’t say we deserved to be attacked “because we were arrogant.”
She said that Iraq has been a failure because we were arrogant.
Again, dead obvious to anyone but a Bush worshipper.
Typical lying CON.
Make it right in your own mind. I read what she (you people) said, embrace it.”So yes, like it or not we bring many things on ourselves.”
Read: America is to blame for 9/11
FW,I don’t think anyone deserves to be killed if they are innocent. However, as a country we have bloody hands. If you can’t see that and take some responsibility for that then these things will never change and we will continue to have bad things happen. We have overstepped many times and our choices as a country have come back to haunt us. You are a prime example of why nothing changes. Take responsibility for our part, man!
Fleettwood writes:
“You people have proven today that a woman’s place is married with kids. Otherwise, she has no business being in the top level of goverment.
My, how the worm has turned.”
If I were a LIE CON like Rush-Fleetwood I would say that Fleetwood said this:
“A woman has no business being on top.”
In other words, missionary position only! That’s the only way Fleetwood’s “worm can turn.”
Brenda–That’s about as good a definition of “conservative” as one can find, “conservative–a political stance that never takes responsibility for any of its policies, no matter how obviously disasterous.”
You are correct Brenda. Those stupid bastards who died on 9/11 deserved it. They were part of the problem, after all.You people are something else.Capn = wants women to be married and with children or they are worthless. That is very progressive of you. Hypocrit.
Sorry, SuckWood,
I don’t engage in a war of wits with an unarmed man.
FW,Again I believe I said innocents shouldn’t have to die. What part of that statement do you not understand? Actually they were the innocents and their death was used as an excuse for what we have now. But where is your outrage for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s that are dying now? You can sit in your Irory tower with your President(I don’t claim him)and all his cohorts and tell yourself that we have brought Democracy to Iraq and that this is a good and wonderful thing we have done. In the end it will all come to naught. If we had looked at the culture before we embarked on this tragic journey we would have seen the outcome we have. I realize you need to keep lying to yourself but leave me out. I just hope that the Democrats have the balls to cut off his funding so he has to bring the soldiers home. GW is never going to listen to the American people so cut his pursestrings.
I am looking forward to the Dems showing the American people the “cut the funding” attitude that they have. The I support the troops but not their mission crap is dead.
Catch 22. Fund Bush’s escalation and the righties will then claimthe dems supported the WAR. Object to the disasterous policies (Rebublican Chuck Hagel) and be accused of not supporting our troops. There is only one answer – IMPEACH!
FW, I don’t think they have the balls. I don’t have much faith in any politician no matter what their party. However, I am a realist and think the best chance we have right now is with the Dems. It is interesting that GW’s buddys in Congress are deserting in droves. Hell, they want to keep their jobs. It would be nice to think they are developing a backbone but I’ll take what ever I can get.
Come now, Ben, impeaching shrub or cutting funding would require guts and that is something that cynical scum like clinton and kerry are sorely lacking.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Heh, Ian, you forgot to change your troll name back to “Ian.”
Now we know who one of the annoying troll idiots is.
Thanks, dipswitch.
Uh, Capn, the “popup” “outed” my Seer schtick earlier, get with the program, dude!!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Sorry, I’m apparently not as obsessed with the Blog as you are, dud.
Today’s Democrats will always been seen as weak. You cannot govern by polls or talk about how we have to have world consensus and expect people to think you are a leader. Those with backbone will do what they think is right and not worry about what others will say about it.
In the end, you cannot be a politician and a leader. Either you are leading or just playing politics.
The representatives represent US, and yes, they should somewhat listen to the people.
But not in all cases. Especially when it comes to civil rights and liberties, and anything unconstitutional.
PM, we the people means nothing to you does it? Those who care nothing about the people, will get thrown out of office come the next election.
Little pm,
If you want me to bother with your opinion then just disagree. You are pulling a capnjoke by throwing out insults and distorting what I say.
For instance, it’s a far leap to take my position (you can’t be ‘macho’ worrying about what others think) and turn it into something else (I don’t care about others).
If you don’t want me to take you seriously it’s your choice.
Pol_Mom, little harsh back there in my reply. I apologize.
However, feel free to demonstrate to me how I think ‘We the People’ means nothing.
ProudMan doesn’t believe in “government heavy solutions” to problems, P Mom.
He does however support invading a country of 36 million, overthrowing its government, demolishing its infrastructure and killing 600 thousand of its citizens and funnelling US tax payer funds to big multinationals that support Bush under the pretense of “rebuilding.”
He fully backs the spending of 2 billion dollars a week in Iraq.
Other than that, he’s for small government.
I was gonna say, I didn’t feel that I said anything worthy of that kind of response, but ok.
Ignoring the polls is almost the same thing as ignoring what the people believe is right.
And like I said, there are times when you should ignore the mob rule, and there are times when you should not.
The poll they can’t ignore was the one in ‘06.
Next one they can’t ignore is in ‘08.
Bring it on.
Capn,I appears to me that GW and his clan fully intend to ignore everything the people say they want. He will go ahead with his plan to escalate the war because HE believes it the thing to do. It is his last ditch effort to save his legacy. It won’t help but he’ll do it anyway. What is really scary is that I think he is laying the groundwork for an invasion of Iran. Anyway he knows that by the time Congress gets around to appropriating the money for the surge the troops will already be there and he is counting on the fact that no one would be willing to cut funds and strand the soldiers already there. I think he is probably right. So what can we do when our elected leaders don’t listen? I do think there will be hell to pay come 2008.
Comic-boy
I support FINISHING the stupidity in Iraq. The invasion in 1991 was wrong. But some idiot didn’t want to finish. Some idiot thought we could just leave and everything would be fine. War doesn’t work that way.
Alas, the only poll that matters is an election. Governing by the latest CNN poll is very different. Do you populists understand that?
No, PM, we don’t.
We think that gov’t should mirror the will of the people. Populist comes from Latin “populi,” “of the people.”
A majority of Americans NEVER supported the invasion of Iraq without a real international coalition, before, during or after the invasion–but your feudal masters said “jump” and you reich-wingers said “how high?”
BTW, in case there was any question, the real reason for the war has been revealed:http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/01/08/iraq-oil.html (Canada)
QUOTE–
The Iraqi government plans to introduce a law that will give Western oil companies rights to the country’s huge oil reserves, a British newspaper says.
The government is drafting a law based on “production sharing agreements [PSAs],” which will allow major oil companies to sign deals of up to 30 years to extract Iraq’s oil, the Independent on Sunday reported.
Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world, the U.S. government says.
It said it had been given a copy of the draft law from last July, and the draft has not been changed significantly since then.
Under PSAs, a country retains legal ownership of its oil but gives a share of profits to the international companies that invest in infrastructure and operation of the wells, pipelines and refineries, the newspaper said.
Critics say the agreements will be bad news for Iraq because they guarantee profits to the companies while giving little to the country. With 112 billion barrels, Iraq has the second largest reserves in the world, the U.S. government says.
Platform, a London-based pressure group that seeks to minimize the impact of oil companies, says on its website that Iraq endorsed production-sharing agreements last fall, just as Russia sought to undo a similar deal it signed in the period of turmoil after the Communist regime collapsed.
Citing published Russian reports, Platform said Russia has realized it signed a bad deal to develop a gas project, which allocated the risk to the government and the profit to the private sector.
“Russia realized the mistakes it made by signing PSA contracts only when it was too late. It remains to be seen whether Iraq follows the same course,” the group said in October.
Attack on Iraq motivated by oil?
Platform’s Greg Muttitt said the U.S. government, international oil companies and the International Monetary Fund had been asked to comment on the draft Iraqi legislation, but many members of the Iraqi parliament have not seen it.
The Independent said Iraq may adopt PSA contracts because it is in a weak bargaining position.
The legislation, if passed as in the draft the Independent was given, would stoke claims that the U.S.-led attack on Iraq was motivated by oil.
The U.S. has denied that. For example, in 2003, then Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld called the idea “utter nonsense.”
Speaking to the Arab TV network Al-Jazeera, he said: “We don’t take our forces, and go around the world and try to take other people’s real estate or other people’s resources, their oil. That’s just not what the United States does.”
The Independent said signing PSA deals would be a first for a major oil-exporting country. Saudi Arabia and Iran, the two leading exporters, both control their oil industries tightly through state-owned companies.
END
Arabia and Iran have nationalized their oil, but Iraq, with an American army sitting on its face, is going to privatize.
This is the mantra of “free markets” these days–”socialize the costs, privatize the profits.”
As Gomer Pyle used to say, “sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise.”