How many others will be outside and alone tonight?

If you haven’t already, be sure to read the Rev. Sam Muyskens’commentary on today’s Opinion pages about his experience at the funeral of a homeless veteran who died alone in a Wichita alley last month. As Muyskens wrote, we don’t know the man’s story and circumstances. But that’s the problem. How many other people will battle tonight’s low temperatures outside and alone? Do we care?
Posted by Phillip Brownlee

57 Comments

  1. Jim G.
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    In this time of inhumane conditions, let’s overlook our various opinions about the homeless and help find a way to keep them warm and alive.Last summer a man died in Nafzger Park from unbearable heat, and now the cold temperatures are claiming lives.Whether you have done a lot or done very little is irrelevent today and tomorrow.Just dive in and help if you can and if you cannot try to teach a child the importance of helping others.

  2. kansassam
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Jim

    unless it is something “newsworthy” the death of the homeless is not even reported. there are many more that have died.. 2 that I know of in the last month.

  3. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    kansassam, are you the Rev. Sam that wrote this? If so, hats off. If not, it is still a really great read.

    I took a “wisdom” course several years ago, and one of the things I learned there was that for all of us, we ONLY live on here in the speaking of other people.

    Thanks for speaking about Michael. It’s the same reason I talk about my Mom and Dad all the time. They live on every time I speak of them.

  4. JWink
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    kansassam: I just finished reading your commentary on today’s (Sunday) EAGLE opinion page. Poignant story. Who will ever know Michael’s pathway but Michael and he’s gone now.

    I suspect some of everyone’s life’s experiences tend to be the same — come and go but the memories gradually fade away.

    In summer of 1960, I drove to Fort Belvoir, Virginia, just outside Washington DC, to begin an Army Engineering school. During the following months our 30 soldier/students developed a comaraderie studying Army engineering problems and visiting Washington DC on weekends. But when the school concluded, we left for “all corners” never looking back.

    I guess my point is that so often in life, at colleges, in jobs, in the military, in all kinds of organizations, in various cities and countries — when finished, we often move on to the next experience without casting a backward glance.

    Perhaps Michael was like that.

  5. Jed
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Too often, we think of “us” and “them.” In truth, there aren’t any thems; There is only “us” who inhabit this globe.Michael wasn’t one of “them,” he was one of us. Apparently, he served his country, was injured in the line of duty, and then forgotten and left to die in a frozen alley. He was one of us, and we let that happen. We can’t do anything now for Michael, except to look around us and see those of us who have been injured, the other Michaels in our midst that we try so hard not to see, and make sure they have a warm place to sleep and a warm meal under their belts. We don’t know their stories either, so maybe we need to take the time to listen and record those stories so that when their time comes, they get more than a ten-second eulogy!Thank you, Reverend Sam Muyskens.

  6. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    great post Jed

  7. kansassam
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    no folks, I am not Sam Muyskens. I do attempt to be on the front lines because it is just the right thing to do. We are building programs to provide places for them to go, and people to go out and get them, but it takes alot of money and volunteers. Both are in short supply. It IS a wonderful editorial, I truly hope it touches a few people not only to feel sorry, but to take action!

  8. Nathan
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    I don’t know Michaels story.

    What I do know is that many of those people who are homeless are where they are in life becauses of the choices they made.

    Jed,

    I don’t know if Michael was really forgotten and left to die in a frozen alley anymore than you do.

    Unless you have some information which we don’t?

    I am saying that there are people who choose to go that route in life for whatever reason.

    It is not evil societies fault in every case.

  9. kansassam
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Nathan,

    Everyone is pretty much where they are because of choices they have made. The only way that will change is with intervention.I know you are well versed in the Bible. Would Jesus condemn these people because of their bad choices? Would he want you and I as Christians to offer them help?The greatest story of intervention in all of history was when God intervened when He sent Jesus to save us when we had no hope. We should do the same for our brothers, Christian or not!I know you have personally sacrificed to protect your brothers and sisters here at home, and I, for one, appreciate that! What is sad, is that many of these homeless did the same thing….

  10. Nathan
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Kansassam,

    I am not condemning anyone.

    What I am not going to do is sit here and read comments from people like Jed talking about how we someone left this guy to die in an alley.

    I agree that we should help people, but we should help people help themselves.

    Jesus didn’t let people free load off of him. Jesus taught people responsibility and helped them in that aspect too.

    Do you help people by giving them fish or teaching them how to fish for themselves?

    When they refuse to fish for themselves did we leave them to die in an alley?

    I am merely saying that help comes in many forms, and that many of the homeless are not homeless because no one is helping them, but because they are not helping themselves.

  11. J R
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Nathan must have missed that little bit about “judge not lest ye be judged.”

    Not a believer in his book, I find in it quite a few other things Nathan seems to have missed or perhaps selectively interpreted.

    I’m glad that SOME Marines had more concern for one of their own than Nathan seems to feel……

    Before Nathan posted, I was sitting here wondering.

    What was I doing Dec. 16th? I don’t remember. I bet you don’t either. Probably you, like me, were getting ready for celebration and company and all the things folks do in the last 2 weeks of December. Maybe you were making travel plans to see family. Or maybe you were in the midst of trying to figure out just what would pass as a perfunctory gift to exchange for the perfunctory gift that cousin Lou would be giving you.

    And whatever it was that I or you was doing that night; be it trivial or of seemingly Earth shattering urgency……?

    A fellow human being numb with more than just physical cold and bereft of the dimmest of hopes and without the company of someone to hold or even scold him…..lowered himself to the hard hard ground one last time and left his hard hard life.

    I wonder what Michael’s last conscious thoughts were while you were wrapping that golf bag organizer for cousin Lou?

    What a comment on our society. What a failure it is for this to happen and happen and happen again.

    “Mankind was my buisiness!”

    The ghost of Marley warning Scrooge. Charles Dickens “A Christmas Carol”

  12. political_mom
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    I’m sure they all choose to be out in the frigid conditions because they’re LAZY, Nathan.

    I bet lazy isn’t at all what they are. Tell me Nathan, would you hire a mentally ill man in your business?

  13. JM
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Actually I have sat in those Post Traumatic Stress Disorder sessions at the VA. Guess that physician thought Thailand was close to Vietnam.

    Anyway, most of those homeless guys that were in there were so full of crap about anything and everything, no one could make any sense out of them. It usualy ended up being why I am a victim session and look how pitiful I am.

    I remember one Marine that got up and left and as he turned back he shouted at the “numbnuts” as the non-victims called them. He told them, “You guys are pitiful, you were cooks, supply clerks and truck drivers! You weren’t fighting you were just hiding during Nam. And your still hiding looking for someone to rub your (blank)!”

    The Marine was right, most of the people in those sessions didn’t fight anyone, but were taking advantage of the system by making up stories about their time in Vietnam.

    After that session, I told the Doctor I didn’t really need to attend as I was in Thailand not Vietnam. Yeah I saw death and carnage, but wasn’t a fighter. The death I saw was from accident or when some Thai went nuts at the gate or some communist faction lobbed some mortars at us.

    Most of these guys didn’t have a plan before they got drafted and didn’t have one after they got out. They didn’t use their GI bill to go to college, get vocational training, buy a house or get job traiing. They chose to get high, get drunk live off the government.

    That’s their fault,no body elses.

    Yeah,there are a few that are real psych cases. Most of those guys would have been psych case with or without a war. And yes there are some combat vets that got freaked out and never recovered.

    I would say those are in majority and if they are that severe can get help at the VA and usually do.

    So no, I don’t get too excited about some ex GI who has been an alcoholic for the past 30 years and cries victim. He more than likely was in Nam, but wasn’t in combat.

  14. Nathan
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    JR,

    If you actually read the entire passage this is how it goes:

    1″Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2″For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.”

    Please stop pretending like you know anything about the Bible besides the few times you try to use it to bash a Christian with…

    When I am home in Kansas I routinely volunteer to go to Marines funerals all over Kansas and Oklahoma to serve on the Burial detail.

    Instead of addressing the issue you choose to address me personally.

    You still think you know me when you have no idea.

    Grow up.

  15. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Nathan is right, no matter how much we try to help others, some will be lost. That’s just a fact of life. You can do everything in your power to help others, yet some will die anyway. The point is to try and do your best for your fellow man, but at some point you have to learn to let go when your best isn’t going to make any difference.I learned this lesson the hard way, and I’m still having to deal with the grief I feel for someone who touched my life in a way no one else could. He was a homeless man who taught me about joy and friendship in the worst of circumstances, when he died as a result of the choices he made, no one cared except for me and a few others who tried to help him. Even though most would look at his life and think “what a waste”, he made a huge difference in the way I look at life. I still cry when I think of him and I miss him still, but I have to let go of the idea that somehow I could have saved him from himself. It wasn’t possible.

  16. kansassam
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    JR..Mary’s point is well taken. I have many good friends on the street that I cannot help because they choose not to be helped. It breaks your heart knowing how much you love them, but it will not make a difference. We can only help those who come for help.What was I doing the night of Dec. 16th. We were down at Emporia and Douglas passing out food, clothing, gloves, sleeping bags.. etc. to anyone who needed. Michael obviously needed that night, and he was only a couple of blocks away. We were willing.. but it wasn’t meant to be. I am sad that we missed the opportunity to help him and get to know him, but hopefully, his story will save others. I pray that it will!

  17. red
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    There but by the grace of God, go I. That is what I usually think when I am confronted homelessness. The trouble is that we all speak as if we have actually been homeless or that we know exactly why people choose to be homeless.

    I have never been homeless and I will not pretend to know how life is for the homeless. I only know of some of the statistics and I see the crowd at the Lord’s Diner each night. But whatever the reason for homelessness, there are some that can be and will gladly accept the help. For those that are offered help and refuse it, then at least God knows that help was offered. So let God judge the homeless person and not us – okay?

  18. J R
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Usual acknowledgement for the good work that you do Ksam. I am not in any way indicting you or any particular person or persons for that matter.

    I am sorry but I cannot see Michaels death as anything but a failure of our society. I look around at the profligate waste of every sort in this country and am appalled to the point of nausea at how it weighs against need. I do not care WHY someone is hungry or cold. There is no excuse for it.

  19. political_mom
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    I was homeless for a brief time, but not chronically. I’m not going to say that some points you make aren’t correct, they are. But just because they, for whatever reason, don’t get what they need, is that any reason to just throw your hands up and say ‘oh well’?

    JM you repulse me, claiming a truck driver doesn’t meet the ’status’ of a ‘real’ veteran.My father WAS a truck driver in Nam, they were all in it together. They had to fight in an ambush, they had to drive into the areas on the front lines. A truck can’t hide as easily! They’re just a big assed target.

    Tell the truck drivers of the IED attacks in Iraq that they don’t qualify in your opinion as a legitimate soldier.

  20. Jed
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Nathan,Yeah, there are people who choose to be hungry and cold and homeless. They’re called ascetics and hermits, and they do it mostly for religious reasons.I can’t see Michael as one of those. He would have welcomed a meal and a warm place to sleep and maybe even some medical care, or any kind of care, for that matter; unfortunately, he couldn’t pay the price demanded for such services.Maybe it was his choice to enter the service, maybe not. Either way, he returned injured, whether by bullets and shrapnel or the sheer horror of war or the drugs he took to numb his terror. Many of our boys did. Some were able to fight the military, or had family that could, for therapy and benefits initially denied them. Others, perhaps more injured and without family support, simply fell through the cracks and were forgotten by a nation all too willing to put the war behind them.I certainly hope nothing like that happens to you, but given the risks you are taking for your country and the oil industry, I’d think you might consider how little it might take for you to end up in Michael’s cold shoes and show a little sympathy!

  21. Ben Huie
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    jed, red, KsSam – well written. I have never “been there done that” but try to emphasize and also support organizations that try to help. One thing that I seem to see is the large number of veterans there. These are men who have paid heavy dues to our country – damn it we owe them something more than just to say “tough luck bum!” in return.

    2000 years ago a troublemaker exhorted us to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. He said something about “how you treat the least of my brothers”. We all know how He was treated then; how would we take that message today?

    From the Catholic Advocate Jan 19: “”We absolutely need to reverse the trend of the increasing number of poor in this country” Pape said”

    As Pape said, catholic social teaching does not call for total equality of income, however it does condemn “extreme inequalities of income.”

    http://catholiccharitiesusa.org/poverty/

    If I can find the Bishop’s letter I will post it. It makes me look like an extreme conservative.

  22. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Some of my clients have been homeless, despite efforts to get them a place to live. I’ve cleaned and dressed wounds with only the headlights of my car for light, gotton my car stuck in the snow in the middle of a junkyard out in the country late at night with no one to help me, walked into the worst neighborhoods past the drug dealers at night, and stepped over drug addicts sleeping on the floor early in the morning to check my client’s blood sugar and give him his insulin. Home health nursing offers many opportunities to visit other people’s worlds, and much of it’s not pretty. Taking care of the less fortunate has always helped me to see the blessings in my life, there is not one thing I can complain about.

  23. Jed
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Nobody said it would be easy or that we would always succeed; we just have to keep plugging away and trying to make a dent in the problems in our little corner of the world. And try not to be too condescending- we and everybody else are only one disaster away from being in their shoes, and most of the people we help have survived several. Are you all that sure you’d handle it better than they have?Mary,While you never had any of mine as clients, I’ve seen quite a few home health nurses in action. When done right, it’s a tough job, but without it, a lot of people wouldn’t be able to live at home.Sam,Whether they know it or not, the human race thanks you for your work. You may have missed Michael that night, but I’m sure you saved other lives that night and many other nights. Keep it up!

  24. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    So true, Jed. “There but for the grace of God go I”, we’d all do well to remember that.Someday I’d like to write a book about being a home health nurse, just when I think I’ve seen it all, something else happens. It’s the scariest, funniest, craziest, and most heartbreaking job I’ve ever had. I wouldn’t trade it for the world.

  25. Ben Huie
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Mary – I had a home care nurse once come over to teach me how to self-inject heparin. I referred to her as my parole officer – a heck of a lot better than having to go in twice a day! I suspect I was one of her easier assignments – a bit of a wise-ass but otherwise no problem.

  26. political_mom
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Mary, I’d love to do that with you. Really I would.

  27. Ben Huie
    Posted January 21, 2007 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    I wonder … could some sort of ’self-help’ presence be established at or near the Lord’s Diner? Nothing coercive, just an open door. There are a lot of recovering addicts/alcoholics who might be willing to attend meetings down there. That, in turn, might provide a ‘light’

  28. Nathan
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    For some of you still blaming this on society, you have probably never been to any other coutnry like Africa or South America and seen real poverty and real homelessness.

    Go ahead and keep blaming society though.

    Ignore people like Mary and others who have done more than you will ever dream of and they still tell you that people choose to live that life.

    My sociology teacher lived with the homeless in Wichita to study them and even he found that many of them choose to live that way and it is not a mental problem.

    Nope, it is all societies fault?

    Yeah right, get some perspective.

  29. Nathan
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    For some of you still blaming this on society, you have probably never been to any other coutnry like Africa or South America and seen real poverty and real homelessness.

    Go ahead and keep blaming society though.

    Ignore people like Mary and others who have done more than you will ever dream of and they still tell you that people choose to live that life.

    My sociology teacher lived with the homeless in Wichita to study them and even he found that many of them choose to live that way and it is not a mental problem.

    Nope, it is all societies fault?

    Yeah right, get some perspective.

  30. JM
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Political Mom back away from the beer and re-read what I posted.”JM you repulse me, claiming a truck driver doesn’t meet the ’status’ of a ‘real’ veteran.My father WAS a truck driver in Nam, they were all in it together.”

    The Marine that left the room said that not me.

  31. Posted January 22, 2007 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    A lot of them are vets.

    Go figure.

  32. kansassam
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    Ben.. Thank You.. you are starting to think like me (might be a bad thing). Anyway, I agree that providing the opportunity, and helping them to “choose” to better their life is the long term answer.

    We are trying to model some of the programs from “Pathways to Housing” in New York… look it up, it’s incredibly interesting what they have done! We are a fledgling organization, with little support and big dreams, but we are determined to make an impact in Wichita. It may only be a few to start, but one day we intend to be a “light” that draws those in need to want our help in bettering their lives.

    Keep in mind that there are existing facilities in that area provided by Urban Ministries, Inter-Faith, Salvation Army, etc. and all of those will accept tax deductible donations.

  33. TRACY
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Leave it to Nathan to turn human compassion into a negative.Sheesh.

    “Blessed are the poor,for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    Blessed are the meek,for they shall inherit the earth.

    Blessed are the merciful,for they shall obtain mercy.

    Blessed are the peacemakers,for they shall be called children of God.”

  34. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    PMom, We need good home health nurses, ever think of joining the profession? You have medical experience, would it take much more to become an RN? You’d love it, you certainly have the character for it.Ben, I think having a self help support presence at the Lord’s Diner is a great idea, one of my good friends is the volunteer director there, maybe I could put a bug in her ear? What do you think Kansassam?

  35. kansassam
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Mary…

    see above… I totally agree.

    my wife is a RN and she spent several years doing home health. I know where you are coming from Mary, I spent alot of sleepless hours knowing the places she was going at odd hours of the night. There were times when they told her to wait for the porch light and RUN to the door! She now works in a surgery center and that has no weekends or nights. I like that much better…. but it’s still stressful because of understaffing! Seems all the young nurses want to be CRNA’s, and they don’t pay enough to keep a full staff of RN’s. (pmom.. there are openings).

  36. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    I don’t go out much at night anymore, I usually finish up with all my clients around 7pm, but I still go into the bad neighborhoods, which I’ve come to feel quite comfortable in. Many people can’t afford to live anywhere else, and most a good people. I’ve never had a problem, even the drug dealers have held doors open for me.My husband has resigned himself to it, because he learned a long time that he can’t stop me from doing what I want to do.I love my job, but it does have it’s ups and downs. I get a lot of satisfaction from helping people who would otherwise be stuck in nursing or group homes to live independently in the community. The quality of their life is so much better when they can have their freedom and their own place to call home.

  37. Ben Huie
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    kssam – are you involved with AECH? (I suspect you me and Mary are not very far apart on this)

    “HOMELESS R and R / 25

    Beginning Tuesday, January 23rd at 6pm and ending Wednesday, January 24 at 7pm at St. John’s Episcopal Church, 3rd and Emporia

    In conjunction with The Annual Point in Time Count:

    St. John’s Episcopal Church, Inter-Faith Ministries, and AECH will co-sponsor 25 hours of R and R for the homeless.

    * Rest, Recreation and Resources

    * Food and Drinks

    * Supplies ( clothes and toiletries )

    * Entertainment ( music and games )

    * Overnight shelter

    Tuesday Night – January 23rd – 6:00pm to 9:00pm

    - Dessert Tuesday night after dinner at the Lord’s Dinner

    - Music and games

    - Coats, hats, socks, toiletries, and blankets will be offered

    - Overnight shelter staffed by Inter-Faith Ministries

    Wednesday – January 24th – 6:30am to 7:00pm

    - Breakfast at 6:30 am

    - Lunch at 12:00 pm

    - Dinner at 6 pm

    - Daytime shelter from the weather until 7 pm

    - Information from other agencies will be available

    - Coats, hats, socks, toiletries, blankets, etc. will be offered

    - Games will be available

    The homeless will also be able to be counted in the 2007 Point and Time Count.”

  38. Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    “I wonder … could some sort of ’self-help’ presence be established at or near the Lord’s Diner?”

    Isn’t Catholic Social Services right across the street? My experience has been that the Catholic Church is willing to try things that might help people – whatever else you want to say about them, the Church always seems willing to put their resources and efforts where their mouth is.

  39. Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    As Ben notes above, the homeless census count is a good volunteer opportunity. The number of homeless who can be counted determines Federal grant monies that help the homeless.

  40. Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Maybe the homeless could live in the new arena.

    Lord knows, nobody else will be using it.

  41. Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Here is some info on volunteering for the Homeless Census:

    http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/16463291.htm?source=rss&channel=kansas_news

  42. Ben Huie
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Steven – agree 100%. What I suggested would be in addition to Catholic Charities. An AA/NA/CA group is something that Catholic Charities simply cannot be. (But they can and do help)

  43. kansassam
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Ben,

    I keep tabs on the AECH, and I know some of the people, but I am not actively involved. Although a good thing for the long term, it’s just a little too political for my blood.

    Steven,

    The PIT count will begin tomorrow evening and continue through most of Wednesday. Counters must be trained, so it is too late to join in now. This is an activity that occurs every year, so plan on next year.. it’s always done the last part of January!

  44. Jed
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Problem with self-help groups is that the clients need to be ready to help themselves. I’ve seen a lot of people coerced into treatment, and almost none came out sober. One alcoholic had been in court-ordered treatment 13 times when I lost track of him.When we coerce people into treatment programs, they take up space in a limited program, and when someone who is ready for treatment comes along, he’s often put on a waiting list 6 or 8 months long.What we need is more hard research into what works and what doesn’t and enough money directed to the ones that are the most successful so that they can take anyone who walks in immediately, and an end to coercing people into programs. It just doesn’t work!

  45. Ben Huie
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    I agree Jed – that is why I specified non-coercive. My idea is that it would just “be there” and people that might need it would then have to decide to come inside for a cup of coffee. Then, maybe the time has come. Like you said, it has to come from within; however having the group there might help. If nothing else it can’t hurt.

  46. Vaughn Tolle
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Yes, Jed and Ben; it must come from within; the treatment/rehab cannot be coercive, or ’twill not work.

  47. Jed
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    One other thing; we aren’t talking about “recreational” drug and/or alcohol use here.Having watched quite a few people either descend into addiction or try drugs a few times and go on their merry way, the difference is all too clear. Hard-core users had problems long before they started to use. The drugs were a solution to an existing problem before they became a problem of their own. Before you can treat the addiction, you have to treat the initial pain, or your efforts to treat the addiction will be wasted.

  48. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    AA would disagree with you, Jed. They believe the addict’s problems come from the drug or alcohol abuse. Psychologists would agree with you, they trhink it’s the underlying pathology that triggers the drinking/drug abuse. I think it’s a combination of both. No two addicts are alike, but they can always come up with a reason for why they use.I used to work in drug and alcohol treatment when all a family had to do was take out a court petition to force a loved on into treatment. I think it worked better than the outpatient treatment now. If you lock a person up for 30 days, the drugs and alcohol leave his system, the fog lifts, the defenses break down, and then you might have a chance at getting through to him with intensive therapy and peer support. I’ve seen it work and I’ve seen it fail, but no matter what the experts say, I think it was better than what’s offered in treatment today. The problem is that it didn’t make enough money for the hospitals and insurance companies didn’t want to pay for inpatient treatment because it was so expensive, so it got eliminated. It’s too bad, because I think it was the most effective way to do treatment.

  49. Ben Huie
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Mary – I agree with you that it is a combination. The thing with AA/NA/CA is that the ‘new’ sufferer can interact with his brothers who have ‘been there done that.’ That is a perspective he doesn’t get elsewhere.

    I am not disparaging treatment as you worked with. It takes it all – especially for long-term maintainence.

  50. political_mom
    Posted January 22, 2007 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Mary I ABSOLUTELY agree. Inpatient treatment long term was always the best. Intensive therapy where you can’t find an escape from yourself.

  51. kansassam
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 5:02 am | Permalink

    Very interesting article in today’s Eagle about the drug problem and some very improbable but intrigueing solutions.”War on drugs has been a whopper of a failure”

  52. Jed
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Mary,About 20 years ago, I took a particularly fragile friend to AA meetings and was allowed to sit in. During those meetings, about 20 people consumed 2 60cup pots of coffee and smoked about 200 cigarettes and talked continuously about their “higher power.” They weren’t about ending addiction, they were simply trying to switch their members to more socially acceptable ones.

  53. Ben Huie
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    ks-sam – today Monday or today Tuesday? (I’ll need to check it out)

  54. Vaughn Tolle
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Jed, I agree with your analysis. Does this mean these entities should be abolished? No, it doesn’t. Just that this reality (IMHO) be recognized for what it is.

    I believe that the addiction issue is primarily due to an underlying issue(s) in the individual’s psychological makeup, combined with a genetic propensity for addiction to whatever the substance is: alcohol, cocaine, heroin, meth, or whatever the DOC.

  55. Jed
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Vaughn,Consider that much of what’s addictable are painkillers or make you feel powerful, and you’ve got about half the story. Genetic propensity probably makes up most of the other half.

  56. Posted January 23, 2007 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    LOL.. the monitors deleted a link to their own newspaper..

    Ben.. just add the http:// in front!

    http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/editorial/16520792.htm

  57. Mary Caruso
    Posted January 23, 2007 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    I think genetics plays a huge role in addiction. Just like diabetes, depression, bipolar, heart disease, cancer, etc, the biggest predisposition to addiction is having family members who suffer from it.