During the heat of a legislative session, when politics is on full display in the Statehouse, few would have the courage to declare legislators underpaid. But credit goes to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius for calling attention to the issue last week. “I think, frankly, we are overdue to look at salaries across the board,” she said, noting that Attorney General-elect Paul Morrison will see a $50,000 pay cut in leaving the Johnson County district attorney job. The fact is that even with the available add-ons for interim work and expenses, the average $23,300 salary per legislator does not cover the lost income and other costs of serving, especially those associated with constituent service in geographically large districts. Better compensation might attract better-quality lawmakers, too. Avoiding the issue of whether they deserve more pay “makes it more difficult for good people to look at public service,” she said.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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59 Comments
I don’t think it is really such a bad idea. Nobody should be getting rich off the taxpayers, but it makes it really hard for them to hold down other jobs while serving in the government. I’m not sure what Morrison’s job will pay, but I know it will be far more than the lawmakers. They should also remember this when giving raises to state employees.
Are people really dumb enough to believe that these people really make as little as they state? Does anyone know they enacted laws that made it legal for private corporations to supplement their income without public disclosure?Are people so stupid they don’t remember that they made it legal for themselves to use their campaign contributions for personal expenses up to the amount they made the previous year?Do you have any idea how much money they are guaranteed to make by funneling state business into their own little outside ones, or investing in businesses they know in advance are going to benefit by their own legislation?I hate to tell you all this, but these people are almost always very well to do when they get there. They are guaranteed to be disgusting after they arrive.
So because they’re well to do means they shouldn’t be compensated appropriately? I agree they do some shady stuff, but I’d like to see that more open with their finances. We can change that you know.
Don’t be so scarrry
It would seem common sense to me to pay them well. Less chance for outside interests to pull them in with promises of corporate payoffs.
State Employee: Interesting information. Please tell us more.
Somehow, I don’t think it is about the pay. How much money did Paul Morrison spend to get this job? He wasn’t drafted into a job he didn’t want, he campaigned and worked for it…he wanted the job, and I would imagine he knew the salary in advance.
Same thing with legislators..they know the salary when they set out for the job…it is not about the money.
No need to change it.
If they make too much they will spend more time running for re-election and less time on the business of government.
The pay is a barrier to participation in our representative democracy. If you look at the make-up of the house, they are usually retired or the spouse of a bread-winner, very few active professionals. While I am sure these are all good people, they are not very “represenative” of our diverse population.
Man, this thread makes me laugh. I’m NOT in favor of paying legislators more. What the heck have they accomplished in the last 3-5-10 years?
And look at PeeMom’s feeble attempt to affect her husband’s pay: “They should also remember this when giving raises to state employees.”
Here’s a thought: how about giving raises to those that EARN them?
school teachers…is where we should be putting our money not politicians.
Someone put me out of your misery. I’m an idiot.
Someone put me out of your misery. I’m an idiot.
Roll back Congress’ self gratifying pay hikes and distribute to Federal and State level employees whose “cost of living” raises haven’t kept up in the last couple of years.Congress and Senate with those pay increases – borderline criminal – they can suck on my big toe until the end of time.
It should be noted that the $23,000 pay figure stated for legislators includes ALL expense money for four months housing expense and for travel expenses in their car. In other words, by the time a legislator pays for those items they make far less than the $23,000. About $10,000 is considered income for the year. And this crap about them being able to use campaign money for personal expenses–not true.
I think the Kansas Governmental Ethics Commission might frown on using campaign contributions for personal expenses. But, to be fair, I’ll look it up. I have a copy of their guidelines right here on my desk.
Clark,I would be all for giving teachers a 50% increase in pay if they would disolve and dismember the NEA.
dissolve, too
“disolve and dismember the NEA”
That isn’t likely to ever happen. The NEA is the largest union in the nation.
Morrison is not asking for a pay increase. The real issue here is paying the AG staff. There are laws regarding the AG office and the Insurance Dept. that say no employee can make more than the Attorney General and Insurance Commissioner.
Those in the JOCO DA office soon to be in the AG office are taking a pay cut when they could have doubled their previous salaries in the private sector.
This is even worse at the Insurance Dept. where the Commissioner only makes something like $74,000. You won’t hear her complain about her salary but it makes it extremly hard to hire qualified Actuaries and Legal Staff.
People wonder why government is inefficient, Would you cut your salary in half to “serve”?
On the other hand the legislature is a seperate issue…
Read KSA 25-4157a, about Personal use of campaign contributions. It’s not too “legalese” to comprehend.
23K is pretty pathetic.
What THAT gets you is legislators who can AFFORD to serve.
What is needed is a balance. Make the job pay enough that an average person could afford to take it. But keep the pay low enough to keep the wealthy away.
If you look at comparable pay charts, an entry level administrative clerk is often hired at the GS-4 level which is $22,500.
So yeah, the pay for the Kansas State Legislature is quite low.
JM, it’s a part-time job.
“JM, it’s a part-time job.” Posted by: KSGolfnut | December 27, 2006 at 09:48 AM
Yeah, but it should be Pro Rata based with healthy traveling expenses paid. Traveling from Southwest Kansas evidently involves more expense and time than someone living in Northeast Kansas.
If this is actually the case, then I plead ignorance to how the system works in Topeka.
It’s a part time job that requires more than part time committment. This is why TABOR would be a bad deal, because people are STINGY with the tax monies and they aint gonna pay. If you want quality representatives you need to pay for it. Just like other employees.
And testicles I’d punch you in your fat nose right now, my husband probably should earn more than you do for the crap he has to deal with. I bet you’d crap your pants if you had to stand in a room full of murderers and it was just you and no weapon.
I’d be thrilled if he got merit raises, but no, he only gets raises maybe once every 5 years if he’s lucky. Because they have to be approved by lawmakers. And when they do give out raises, the taxpayers like you bitch.
So shut it for once.
PeeMom,I’m trying to remember…do we have slavery laws in Kansas? Pro-slavery, I mean. And, is your husband currently serving in a slavery capacity?
If so, I think we should reverse these laws immediately.
If not, why does he continue to work a job that has such horrific work conditions and pays so poorly?
Why do cops become cops?
Pay sucks too, they like what they do maybe? Why did I spend so many years doing EMS? Maybe because I loved it more than anything and couldn’t imagine my life any different?
Pol Mom, I didn’t know your spouse is in the legislature, maybe it is commone knowledge but I didn’t know. Do you mind telling who your husband is?
So, I’m guessing he LIKES being in control – being in a room full of murderers and knowing he’s the boss. I know people like that. Some cops are like that. Most feminists are like that.
However, by pigeon holing himself, he immediately reduces his opportunities. Plus, I’m guessing he has very little education.
I love being an engineer. But if I thought for a minute that my working conditions and/or compensation weren’t adequate – I’d be looking elsewhere.
I might support raises for goverment employees if everyone who went inot geoverment service wasn’t retarded.
No, testicles, I do know what you’re referring to, those cops who get this God complex (much like yourself) but I can’t ever see my husband being like that. He just likes his job- most of the time. And of course by saying he has very little education, you mean he doesn’t have a degree. No he doesn’t. But that doesnt’ mean he’s not smart (I’d say he’s smarter than you by far, but that’s not saying much). And he did attend college too just didn’t finish.
If they don’t like the pay then why are they running? Morrison spent over a million dollars to be the AG and if his people from JOCO want to also take pay cuts then let them. There is nobody holding a gun to their heads. It is their decision to make.
As far as legislators go again you people running campaigns that spend 3 to 8 times the amount of money they will make as a legislator. They knew the salary but they still ran for office.
Sebelius just wants to take care of her top boy Morrison. If she thought the pay was a problem in the past she could have proposed something before. Then she also has Raj Goyle to take care of. She got him to move back to Wichita to be a state representative now she wants to pay him better. He does not have a job in Wichita and his home is furnished with office equipment. He has made no appearances with the Sedgwick County legislators because he has been back east where his wife is living and working at her job.
There is not a pay increase that is needed for the Sebelius guys! We pay enough in taxes. Now if you want to talk about some of the state employees you might have something there. They do not get the 6 and 9% pay increases that teachers have been receiving the past several years.
Ya’ll just suck. Our state legislators deserve to be paid better whether you agree with them or not. Considering most of them are repukes, you’d think you’d agree with that.
Worried about your taxes, fine, take some of the federal monies for our representatives at that level and give it back to the states. They make obscene amounts.
The topic of this thread revolves around the conflict between the historical belief that the legislators should be “citizen legislators”, in a part time position, and the ability to afford to so serve. This, as I recall from my high school government class, didn’t worry the “founding fathers” too much, as there was a belief that only those who were white male property owners should be voters and thus serve in the various legislatures, be they state or federal.
For whatever reasons, and the legislators themselves are at least partially to blame, the business of government has become more complex over time. Thus, the idea of a 90 day legislative session in Kansas becomes laughable, as the actual time of the legislative session runs over 90 calendar days; there are the interim committees which meet when the legislature is not in session to “do the State’s business”; etc.
Do we, as the people of Kansas wish to have professional legislators, i.e., being a state legislator as one’s profession? I think not, from reading the various posts. Or, do we the people wish to continue the part-time citizen legislator ideal? If so, we need to think seriously about the compensation of the members, so as to involve more active professionals, business owners, etc., in the body of the House and Senate.
The same approach, IMO, applies to the state employees. The statutes do prohibit assistants from being paid more than the elected officials. With compensation in the private sector much higher for the types of professionals deemed necessary to carry out the ministerial functions of the government (see post above about the Insurance Commissioner’s office), unless a highly competent professional has political ambition, is independently wealthy, or has an overwhelming desire to engage in public service (or some combination thereof), s/he is likely not to take a “government job” for lesser pay; this does affect the quality of service received by the people who pay the salaries. Thus, is there political momentum to amend the statutes to allow the long-time assistants to be paid more than the elected official? Or, do we increase the salaries of the elected officials so the assistants (who do a lot of the very valuable work performed by the several offices) may be compensated at a higher level?
This is the conundrum; I do not have a “perfect” answer. My personal thoughts on the matter are those more or less espoused above by some posters. With reference to the legislators, increase their pay to a level where more can afford to serve, but not to the point it becomes a profession in and to itself; with reference to the elected officials, consider amending the statutes permitting the assistants of appropriate competence and experience to earn more than the “boss”. What are your thoughts, fellow bloggers?
soshelied……do you have PROOF Raj Goyle is back east AND his wife works there? This sounds like sour grapes for Bon Bon losing by a landslide last month.
“Same thing with legislators..they know the salary when they set out for the job…it is not about the money.”
That’s the most common complaint against raising pay for legislators – they knew the salary when they filed for office.
That’s right. That’s probably why 51 of the 125 state representatives did NOT have a major party opponent in November. That’s over 40% of the state that are not given the opportunity to participate in our democratic system in November due to the failure of one of the parties to recruit a candidate. That’s a travesty and it will only be solved by increasing pay.
And testicles I’d punch you in your fat nose right now, my husband probably should earn more than you do for the crap he has to deal with. I bet you’d crap your pants if you had to stand in a room full of murderers and it was just you and no weapon.
I’d be thrilled if he got merit raises, but no, he only gets raises maybe once every 5 years if he’s lucky. Because they have to be approved by lawmakers. And when they do give out raises, the taxpayers like you bitch.
So shut it for once.
My husband is obviously a super dumb ass just like me. Who in the hell would work where he does for the money they pay him? Oops, I forgot, he’s a super dumb ass just like me.
As I mentioned above, the real issue here isn’t the pay of Morrison, it is that of his staff. People enjoy notoriety and they don’t necessarily need to be paid a ton because they won an election, but the problem is with hiring staff under the cap.
See my post above.
Lets cut the legislature to meeting once every 2 years. Like Texas. That would double their pay. And alleviate us from the nonsense laws they pass. Less time to do evil.
Golfnuts you said you love being an engineer.What kind of engineer are you, Golfnuts?
Capital wildcat –How well does an elected official work without a staff?Can an elected official run their office without having to hire a staff?I thought that they have a departmental budget that pays for this?You seem to be very keen to this, do you work there?
Wiseman,Industrial
industrial engineer<—-builder of memos, charts, and ledgers.
IEs <– designers of mfg plants and work centers.
IEs <– designers of efficient and cost effective processes.
IEs <– programmers of simulation/modeling software.
IEs <– analysts of simulation output.
IEs <– business-savvy engineers
They net somewhere between 8K and 10K & have no staff unless in a leadership spot. Put in all the time they work and it equals about 6 months of Full time work. Do the math – even 10 div. by 6 is about $1600 per month net. When you pay Walmart greeter wages you get Walmart greeters for legislators. Nice friendly folks who do nothing.
State employee, you are more than an idiot, you are a damn liar. Every action you claimed had taken place has not happened and is against the law. As for campaign funds for their own use – Ethics just fined Rep. Kilpatrick $45K on top of $4K for taing $6K out of her account.
Thankfully you are not a good representation of our state employees!
“Morrison spent over a million dollars to be the AG.”
I do not know how much he spent, but in his campaign to be the KS AG, Morrison raised $1.9 million.
As a former House Rep, I can tell you that the pittance paid to reps does NOT cover expenses, especially when you take into effect the lost wages from your regular job or business.
If you have a family you travel back to see, you fall even farther behind. And that’s IF you have a business or boss that will LET you be away for one fourth of the year and then expect to step back into work when session is over.
I’ve always supported a BIT more pay for our legislature (but not enough to make it attractive to people in highpriced occupations), but I always voted against raises for state employees.
That’s because the same law that prevents the legislature from raising their own salaries without raising all state employess ALSO makes the legislatures’ raises go up when state employees’ do.
Legislators DO need a bit better pay, but it needs to be a clean vote for once, not hidden in state employee pay raises.
And BTW, “State Employee”’s post at the top is so far from the truth, it is laughable! Not a lick of truth in any of it! What a moron…
As I read it, hon_jr, there should be statutory amendment so each issue (state employee pay raises and legislators pay raises) may be separately considered and determined by a clean vote. Makes sense to me.
Your explanation of the “true cost” of serving rings true to me as well. No wonder there are so many unopposed incumbents.
Better pay would likely attract more professionals and additional persons interested in serving.
Whether it would result in “better laws” is another matter altogether. I doubt it.
Hey, GMC, a fella can dream, can’t he?
Elected officials and pay is a touchy issue…in CA, they voted themselves a healthy “per diem” that they get every day they are in the state capitol, even if sessions meet for 10 minutes or less.
That kind of abuse of the public trust is what makes such harsh responses to any pay raise for elected officials. Give em an inch, and they take the whole bolt of cloth..
IEs <– designers of efficient and cost effective processes.Some how that does not fit-in, industrial engineering (non-professionals posturing as professionals) as far as for the average consumers and the blue-collar workers but for white-collar workers it is an abuse of the art, now, today, they have taken something grand and have turned it into an con-artist game.Sorry Golfnuts, I do not have a whole lot of respect for engineers but of course, that is just my opinion.What can you expect from an Artist, Craftsman and Machinist?
Yes, sometimes the legislature is in session only a short time. Other times they are on the floor debating bills for 15 or 16 hours. Sometimes they are not finished until 4 or 5 in the morning. But, this is not really relevant to this issue.
If you want everyday working people to be involved in setting policy for the state then you have to be able to pay them enough to feed themselves and their families. $10k a year does not get it. Having to be away from home and kids is hard enough on young families, asking them to go bankrupt in the process is too much.
The legislature is in session for 3-4 months, but the work does not stop in April. If a legislator really cares about his or her constituents, there is plenty to do from May to January.
To me the most telling aspect to this debate has been mentioned before: the lack of participation in the election process. When so many seats go uncontested, that ought to tell you something about the attractiveness to the position.
I wonder how it would work out if the legislation were paid a wage by the hour instead of a salary?
Vaughn wrote:”As I read it, hon_jr, there should be statutory amendment so each issue (state employee pay raises and legislators pay raises) may be separately considered and determined by a clean vote. Makes sense to me.”
Yes, in a sense… The original intent of the law was to keep legislators from voting themselves payraises without some method of tying in fiscal responsibility. Which still makes sense. So we’d still need some method of doing that.
However, there also needs to be a method of voting in state employee raises without also HAVING to raise legislative pay.
That said, I still do advocate increasing legislator’s pay SOME. If there would have been an honest bill, aimed at increasing legislative pay, I’d have voted for it in a heartbeat. But never in a back-door manner, like the current statute imposes.
About whether legislators should be paid better: ask yourself if YOU could afford to leave your job or business for three months or more. Would your job or business be there when session is done, each and every year?? And if you even HAD a job like that, could you afford it? If not, would you be able to be a legislator? If so, would you want to lose that much money?
Most folks run for legislature because they feel they have something to offer, or a responsibility to perform public service, or… perhaps they have a personal beef or single issue to work on… But most legislators start out for good reasons.
Only the honorable ones continue to.
I just want to say I’ve emailed my legislators out of session, and they have replied every single time. They didn’t have to, but they chose to.
They do work more than just their session.
The job should pay more than it does. It is a heavy responsibility and often involves lots of travel and time away from home, family and better paying work. If you were a rep from Finney County having to drive hundreds of miles to Topeka several times a year for days at a time, you’d soon realize that the low pay and people calling and pestering and bitching at you all the time is not worth it. And BTW, the capital should be moved to either Salina or Wichita in the middle of the state and not 60 miles from Missouri and 350 from Syracuse.
I think it’s painful to read the obscene amount raised for campaigns in the same thread as the discussion of how little our legislators make.
industrial engineers = bean counters