Outgoing Attorney General Phill Kline is appointing Wichita attorney Don McKinney, an anti-abortion activist, to handle his case against Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller — regardless of what happens at today’s Sedgwick County court hearing on whether to reinstate misdemeanor charges against Tiller. “This appointment of an independent special prosecutor will remove this investigation from a highly charged political process,” Kline claimed. Oh, please. This appointment is about trying to continue an ideologically motivated investigation and forcing incoming Attorney General Paul Morrison to have to end it.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
UPDATE: Judge Paul Clark refused today to reinstate the charges against Tiller.
309 Comments
And how much will this cost the taxpayers?
Atta boy Phillip, we knew you could remain objective about this. heh heh
Herr Kline is harder to kill off than Rasputin was.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
From Operation Rescue Blog:
Don McKinney Says:
May 26th, 2006 at 2:57 pmPaul was the real deal. A true Christian warrior. He was a great “leader” in the purest sense: unlike many pro-life “leaders”, Paul didn’t try to build a worldly organization with himself at the top of the pyramid, ordering underlings into battle. Paul “the Jackal” deParrie had little interest in fundraising or building his own kingdom. When pro-life factions warred against each other over territory, authority, publicity, or membership/support base, Paul stayed above it all and focused on saving babies. Like Christ, Paul was a real “leader” in that he went first, he led the way into battle, he didn’t exercise authority over others or lord it over anyone –he just did the work himself and inspired us all as an example, like Christ, of servanthood, bravery, and self sacrifice. Matt. 20:24-26.
Back in 1991, the Wichita Rescue Movement kicked off the Summer of Mercy with some rescues at local clinics, one of which included the arrest of Rich Mulliins. Shortly thereafter, the “first wave” hit Wichita with Joe Scheidler and the PLAN convention. One of the first guys I met was a round, hairy character with a dark beret, carrying a lot of cameras. He told me he was a reporter for “Life Advocate.”’ He was extremely knowledgeable about the issues and tactics. We hit it off immediately and went to municipal court together to help some Christians who had been arrested.
I am honored to say that Paul was my friend. Over the years, we consulted frequently on legal issues and spiritual concerns. When Wichita’s Lawyers for Life held an event of rallys and seminars, the Jackal came to town and conducted a seminar on do-it-yourself legal tactics. It was probably the most popular seminar we had.
For the ten year reunion of the Summer of Mercy, Paul and Bonnie stayed in our home, and my family was blessed by their spirit, humor, and intelligence. Paul called us last week, just a few days before he departed for his heavenly home. When we heard the news of his parting, we were staggered.
Paul can’t be replaced. He was the best that pro-life has to offer. He was a constant witness for the unborn, and he probably personally witnessed to hundreds of thousands of people, standing outside of conventions, rallies, and events with his posters and costumes. Without him, many favorable court decisions would never have been obtained. We are each going to have to step up our own efforts to fill the gap in the wall left by Paul’s passing.
He was not only a servant/leader but he was a great writer. Unlike so many of the fundraising “newsletters” that we get in the mail, with their self-aggrandizing oratory, flowery grandiloquence and ranting propaganda, Paul really knew how to write and report. Paul’s work (and the work of the others) at Life Advocate, was monumental in the pro-life movment, and no pro-life library is complete without some of Paul’s books like “The Rescuers”; “Blood Upon the Rose”; and “THe Unholy Sacrifices of the New Age.” Every pro-lifer should check out his books still available on eBay and at abe.com.
Above all, Paul was a true Christian brother. His religion was not head knowledge and doctrine. He was not legalistic. There was no ounce of pride or rebellion in his motivations. He had the spirit of God in his heart and practiced the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He was joyful and merciful, loving, humble, and kind — all while warring fiercely against the powers of darkness.
And there was one other thing about Paul that contantly amazed me: he and I almost always agreed about everything — from church issues to pro-life controversys to legal tactics. He was a true brother. I can’t wait to see him again.
Donald “the Dingo” McKinneyRescue web site.
If Phill Kline appointed the special prosecutor to remove this case froma highly political process - then why did he appoint a well-known Operation Rescue supporter to be the prosecutor?
Every tactic Phill Kline uses just gives the anti-abortion crowd another black eye. Rather than really trying to reduce abortions in this country, it is people like Phill Kline that makes the already deeply divided nation even more deeply entrenched into two camps.
Or is it simply a way to get some more public money into the Operation Rescue coffers by hiring this special prosecutor?
Sounds like the “special prosecutor” will be exercising true prosecutorial independence and discretion….
Gee, it couldn’t be that Tiller is doing something wrong could it??? What matters is if there is a violation of the law, NOT THAT PHILL KLINE IS INVOLVED.
Let the investigation go forth!
If Tiller really is doing something wrong, then get an independent special prosecutor to look into the allegations.
Having a known Operation Rescue supporter to be the special prosecutor already has tainted any hint of independence. Or can’t you see that ron?
Let the investigation go forward . . . with a special prosecutor who will dischargee the obligations of the appointment fairly and with fidelity to the law. The investigation should be transparent and conducted by an attorney who the citizens of the state can have confidence in. Donald “the Dingo” McKinney isn’t the person to do that.
Kline’s hubris knows no bounds.
I guess we’ll find out soon when the Judge decides.
Looks like Phill Kline still has a few cards to play.
I’m not sure who one could hire to be totally independent Special Prosecutor.
This is no different than a pro-choice Judge who has to make a decision. If the Judge makes a decision you don’t agree with, one can appeal.
Thus the process of our Judicial system.
I’ve seen McKinney out protesting at the clinics. I’m told that his legal skills are on a par with his singing voice, which is downright awful! I doubt Tiller has much to worry about.
^^^Totally independent, maybe not. More independent than “the Dingo”, definitely.
If I understand this right, Phill Kline appointed a special prosecutor but Paul Morrison has the right to dismiss the special prosecutor when he is in office? So is this to make Morrison look bad also?
The anti-abortion people already hate Morrison so who is Kline trying to get to change their minds?
I think Kline is just a loose cannon and he is shooting off in all different directions.
“This appointment of an independent special prosecutor will remove this investigation from a highly charged political process,” Kline claimed.
How can you claim that someone can be an independent prosecutor if they are a noted anti-abortion activist? I mean, I understand that by Independent in that sense he means someone not associated with the office of the Attorney General, or the office of the District Attorney, but let’s get real here, this is just another attempt of Phill Kline’s to snowball this case so he can get publicity off of it… I really feel sorry for the people of Johnson County…
I bet singing is not a requirement to attend the bar exam. heh
Perhaps Mr. McKinney will be in his element on this case.
Always made me nervous when the Attorney’s that hired me for their client told me, “It will be fine, don’t worry about so and so, he’s always been mean and asks demeaning questions.” :\
Wondering if this is Mr. Kline’s opening gambit for the next gubenatorial election?
Yes, Suza it puts Morrison between a rock and hard place. Either he lets the special prosecutor go forward and he alienates the Democratic base which embraced him despite the fact he switched parties to fun for AG, or he immediately dismisses the special prosecutor and potentially alienates moderate republicans who followed him to the democratic party for the AG election.
Phill is crazy, but he isn’t dumb.
Oh the waste in human and fiscal resources all in a meaningless crusade.
Say it with me. A woman is going to continue to have a right to choose. This is not going to change.
With 11 days left in his term, Phill “Phelps” Kline can’t keep from throwing more of our tax dollars at abortion issues. And if he thinks Don McKinney is “independent,” wow, what delusional arrogance. Looks like we voters wiped, but we forgot to flush.
Latest; charges not to be reinstated:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16329520.htm
Yes, and leftists will continue to protest the clubbing to death of harp seals in Canada, while at the same time becoming orgasmic over a women exercising control over her own body and murdering her unborn child.
V.L.R.B!!
Kudos to Nola and double Kudos to Judge Clark for stopping the Phill Kline Last Gasp Statewide Tour. Now if Mr. Morrison will fire Mr. OR a/k/a “Dingo” McKinney, maybe we Kansans can get OFF the abortion issue and back to real crimes and real issues instead of right wing fanaticism exemplified by Phill Phelps Kline and his ilk.
No, Sal. Phill (the second L is for “Liar”) is dumb.
This is the legalistic sh*tting in a paper bag and setting it on the doorstep of Morrison’s AG office.
Kline had four years of AG investigative and prosecutorial power to attack George Tiller. All he came up with was a few piss-ant misdemeanors; charges he was reluctant to bring to court under the provisions of Kansas law.
But that’s not what makes Phill (the second “l” is for Loser) dumb. What makes him dumb is to think he can appoint the Dingo as an “independent” prosecutor and get away with it.
McKinney is as independent in abortion law as Michael Moore is independent vis a vis George WMD Bush.
That Phill (the second “l” is for Lame) could attempt to portray McKinney as “independent,” and say he wanted to reduce the politically-charged matter *by appointing a Democrat!* indicates the people of Kansas made a wise choice: they got rid of a stupid man who’d been Attorney General for a few years.
“Yes, Suza it puts Morrison between a rock and hard place. Either he lets the special prosecutor go forward and he alienates the Democratic base which embraced him despite the fact he switched parties to fun for AG, or he immediately dismisses the special prosecutor and potentially alienates moderate republicans who followed him to the democratic party for the AG election.”-Sal Pingo
I agree that’s Kline’s thinking, but I hardly think that Morrison is going to alienate the moderate Republicans if he immediately dismisses the “special prosecutor”. Kline’s tendency to put his “pro-life” ideology over doing his job is why he lost the AG race in the first place. By appointing an Operation Rescue supporter/fanatic as a so called INDEPENDENT counsel, Kline signaled to the crossover voters that they made the right decision.
Like the op-ed said: “Who is Phill Kline trying to fool?”
Does anyone know how this case ended up on Clark’s docket. He has been in civil for several years. Did Nola go judge shopping, or did the criminal assingment judge protect all the judges who would be facing reelection in the future and assign it to a judge in his last term. I suppose it is also possible Clark was the duty judge that day, but it would highly unlikely that the most senior judge in the Courthouse would have on call duty the Friday before Christmas.
Right on MonkeyHawk; but Phill should never have been elected in the first place and nearly wasn’t. What a waste our tax dollars over the last 4 years Phill has been pandering to his right wing base with nothing but embarrassment to show for it.
Monkeyhawk: Why all the ad hominems. If you have a point make it. You’re little snipings are neither funny nor compelling argument.
I guess Judge Clark wants Sedgwick’s County money now as the case will most likely go higher up the Judicial Food Chain.
The question now is to see if Judge Clark’s jurisdiction will peter out if the case is carried forward.
er that should say, spend more of Sedgwick’s County money…
SalP, a quick check of judge assignments on the 18th Judicial District website reveals that Judge Clark is currently assigned to Traffic/PFA; that would put him nominally back into the Criminal side. Nonetheless, a curious assignment for the most senior judge in the Courthouse, don’t you think?
Wichita - Come, rape our children.
Why is a traffic court judge hearing a case with constitutional ramifications? I’ve never seen a traffic court judge deal honestly with traffic tickets much less issues like this where Tiler has spread tons of cash around to the “judge’s” political party.
Hey, judge, how much for a DUI, or do I pay the prosecutor?
There was already a judge involved in this case and No Warrant Nola took it to this weasel instead.
If you can tell me Clark wasn’t in on the scam from the beginning without laughing, you should be selling swamp land in Florida.
Then there’s the issue that Nola told Clark that she and Kline hadn’t talked about the case when in fact she had.
Wichita - Come, rape our children, buy our courts, our prosecutors. What a nationwide embarrassment we have become. We should rename Wichita Auschwitz West.
Let’s see, Who is Kline trying to fool? Well, Nola certainly has shown that The Eagle is highly gullible, so why not Kline?
To the poster who refused to provide any id, would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to the identity of the Sedgwick County District Court Judge already involved in the case?
No name poster @ 4:01,I wouldn’t put my name on the piece of drivel either.
I have to laugh.
Kline and you antis are not worried about “crimes” or “babies” at all.
YOU are all sexually frustrated (deprived) and merely wish to stick your nose in someone else’s bedroom. YOU know? Since aint nothing doing in yours?
LOL
Is there someone in the Wichita establishment that George Tiller doesn’t own?
Well, I for one am thankful that Judge Clark has put a stop to Kline’s grandstanding… Whtether I agree with Tiller or not to me is not the issue - the issue is whether or not Phill Kline is appropriately using his appointment to the office of Attorney General and the powers it affords him
Oh the waste in human and fiscal resources all in a meaningless crusade.
Say it with me. A woman is going to continue to have a right to choose. This is not going to change.
Jed,I agree! 50,000,000 aborted Americans is definitely a waste of human resources.
Say it with me: The only thing that is permanent is change.
The case is public - that means the public can not only read the charges but they can read all of the legal procedings, court orders, and opinions from judges and even the supreme court.
the only ones being fooled are those who don’t pursue the truth.
forget the media - go find the truth for your self.
“To the poster who refused to provide any id, would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to the identity of the Sedgwick County District Court Judge already involved in the case?”
My guess is that No Name is referring to Eric Yost, who signed Kline’s original complaint.
“Is there someone in the Wichita establishment that George Tiller doesn’t own?”-No Name
Your rhetorical question reveals your myopic world view.
Not going along with Kline does not equal being owned by George Tiller.
I resent the anti-abortion people thinking that all Wichitans want people to come rape children. If Phill Kline was really trying to investigate child rape - then he should go after the child rapists - not Tiller.
Every step Phill Kline has taken has had a cloud of suspicion over his head as to the validity and motive on his part.
That was MY Line Will, not Jeds.
Will? I am really sorry that you aint gettin’ any. Try a new mouthwash instead of trying to ban sex?
Interesting stat. you posted. Just where would those 50,000,000 “people” you cite have found housing or employment? Oh that’s right. You antis don’t concern yourselves with that.
Ah, now I understand. To liberals prosecuting criminals is called “grandstanding”. Trying to protect children from rape is called “protecting a woman’s right to choose”. And a prosecutor who actually enforces laws liberals don’t like is an ideologue.
How silly the rest of us are. I always thought a prosecutor who didn’t prosecute was a crook.
J.R. you’re insults about sex are bizarre and betray a very simple mind.
yes - abortion is legal - women can do with their bodies as they choose.
yes - immigration is legal - foreigners can come to the USA
but much like all the hubub debate on what to do about “illegal imigrants” we now seem to debate “illegal abortions”
what part of ILLEGAL is not clearly understood?
what is statutory rape?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape
if a minor wants an abortion - then OK.
but how did she get pregnant? Doesnt the law require medical professionals to report these crimes?
names of victims of all kinds of crimes are with held - but the crime is still investigated and prosecuted.
let the un-named minor get the abortion that as leagally definedand let the people that are to uphold the law.
whether they are elected, appointed or hired.
If Kline is really after the child rapist - then go after the child rapist -NOT just Tiller.
How hard is that to understand no name?
Not at all Sal.
If you or any of these other antis were any deeper than I suggest? You’d be posting about how society should provide free medical care, food and housing for every child and its parents in this country. You’d be TRULY pro life.
from suza,…If Kline is really after the child rapist - then go after the child rapist -NOT just Tiller….
Tiller is not the only one on the list.
Tiller knows that little girls are being raped and not only is doing nothing about it, but is and has been paying alot of money to keep the rapists from being caught, prosecuted, and locked up so that they don’t get to someone elses little girl.
Yes, no name, it IS Grandstanding when someone is abusing the power of their position as Phill Kline obviously is… and how do you know whether I am liberal or otherwise? You simply assume… Just because I do not like someone abusing power does not automatically make me liberal (not that there is a problem with that, mind you)… I prefer to think of myself as open-minded. No, I do not personally believe in abortion. I also do not believe that it is my right to tell anyone else what they may or may not do. If Tiller is indeed performing illegal abortions, then Kline should have been able to bring charges through a LEGAL avenue, rather than trying to sneak them in the backdoor without proper authority by claiming that as Attorney General he has ultimate authority - this is grandstanding, and it is an abuse of power. If he is really concerned with Child Abuse, he should have subpeonaed live birth records for underage girls AS WELL as abortion records. This has been nothing but a witch hunt from day one on Kline’s part, and it has finally blown up in his face… and if it makes me a liberal because I feel that way, well then I guess I didn’t know I was a liberal, but so be it…
Just because I called you out as a moron doesn’t mean I’m pro-life or pro-choice. It is very complex issue, I see both sides of the debate and conclude it is a moral quandry I haven’t yet cracked. Consequently I have never expressed an opinion one way or the other. But that is beside the point, if your argument is that pro-lifers should focus on providing for children who aren’t aborted make it. It’s not a bad point to make. But, why all the unfunny insults about Kline and other “not gettin’ any” It just makes you look foolish. You certainly aren’t persuasive when you add unnecessary ad hominen attacks.
from wendy… he should have subpeonaed live birth records for underage girls AS WELL as abortion records.
there are live births at an abortion clinic?
If Kline is going after the child rapists - then publicize that fact and bring charges against the people.
You anti-abortion people really give Tiller too much power and credit. This is just a man that is providing a legal service.
I don’t believe in abortion personally, but it is not my place to judge anyone contemplating the procedure. There are alot of cases where abortion is the best choice.
But to you anti-abortionists, no reason is valid for an abortion.
So rather than having Phill Kline waste the court’s time with his showboating - go after the real child rapists. You can’t tell me that there is no other way to get to the these child rapists than through Tiller - that’s just a bunch of hogwash.
OMG, you anti-choice Nazis are in a tizzy today. What happened, did your crusader-king Phill Kline get his ass handed to him again? Morrison will shut down this”special prosecutor” nonsense with minimal political fallout. What sells well in a “red” state is wasting money. That is exactly what this Kline/McKinney nonsense really is, a waste of TAX DOLLARS. This entire matter will be dead and buried in 2 weeks as far as Wichita is concerned. Of course, JOCO is in for 2 years of Kline and his stormtroopers tactics. It sucks to be them but that’s what they get for letting the rapture-right control their county republican party.
I believe it is moot…as the judge refused to reinstate the charges. Another grandstand by Kline the Klown shot down in flames….
Not every pregnant minor girl has an abortion. If you doubt that, go look at a hospital maternity ward and you will see. Why do the anti-abortionists not care who the father is in those cases?
If you are really concerned about child rapists - then go after ALL health care records of pregnant minor girls - not just the abortion clinic records.
This is why most free-thinking people do not believe the anti-abortion group - you fail to see all the possibilties.
If Judge Yost was being referred to, then he could not hear the case. Judicial Ethics and all that, not to mention the lack of impartiality.
I live in Johnson County. I dread what Kline may have in store for us.
Eric Yost…….he’s right in the anti-choice league with Kline and McKinney!
Hernando, be afraid……….be very afraid! If you were smart in JOCO, you’d be looking into the recall/impeachment process. Also, start lining up moderate candidates for ‘08.
Vaughn, please explain how Yost would be precluded from hearing the case due to “judicial ethics and all that, not to mention the lack of impartiality.” I don’t understand. Was there a motion to recuse him that was granted.
…Abuse of power?….Kansas statute annotate 22-3103, which states if the testimony taken at an inquisition discloses probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed within a county (YOU SHOULD NOTE HERE THAT THE JUDGE WHO SWORE OUT THE WARRANT ON DR. TILLER FOUND PROBABLE CAUSE), the Attorney General may file such testimony together with his complaint or information against the person or persons alleged to have committed the crime.
the dismissals are a stall tactic - the dismissals can be appealed, but the timeing of such appeals can be controled - postponed, rescheduled etc.
the “special appointment” was announced ahead of the hearing because it was known ahead of time that it was going to be refused.
it may still be appealed - who knows - but the “special appointment” gets around the stall tactic.
I just heard on KAKE news that Phill Kline was not even in the courtroom today - he had one of his assistants argue the case. Is this further proof that Kline is just showboating or what?
From what was posted, I took it that Judge Yost signed the complaint, making him an interested party. If, instead, Judge Yost merely signed an order, then no problem, obviously. If I misunderstood what I read, OK, and my earlier post is moot.
Sal
I take it you are new here.
I used up all my drawn out arguements on abortion a long time ago. It is a topic that has been done again and again here. When I’ve said something well once, I’m not inclined to repeat myself.
By way of introduction? I was formerly “pro life” I was at the “Summer of Mercy”.
Long story short? Most of the posters here who are anti choice I have seen post in other ways showing that they are DEFINITELY not pro life. This was also my real life experience.
Finally? I find most “pro life” people to be rather dull. They are too blinded by ……whatever…to realize that they are being used as pawns by people who have no intention of doing anything but using the issue as a political football.
Kline would be a good example of that……
If Eric Yost is in the Civil Department of the 18th Judicial District Court, why is he getting involved in alleged criminal issues? VT, your take on this?
If the anti-abortion group would only spend a tenth of their money and time on preventing unwanted pregnancies and reducing the number of abortions performed, then maybe God would be proud of them.
……I just heard on KAKE news that Phill Kline was not even in the courtroom today - he had one of his assistants argue the case. Is this further proof that Kline is just showboating or what?…..
its all about finding the truth!
Kline is NOT the lead prosecutor on this case against Tiller. the lead prosecutor has to show up not Kline.
also…
if a maternaty ward has live births from minors and does not report this to a law agengy - then that entity should be prosecuted, yes.
Aren’t all live births reported to the state in vital statistic reports. I assume those are available to law enforcement.
Judge Yost may have been considered a “friendly” judge, or, he could just have been the only one around when the case was filed. Remember, under Court unification, any District Court Judge can “hear” a case, whether or not it is within the department to which the judge is assigned.
… preventing unwanted pregnancies and reducing the number of abortions performed…
catching the rapists would definately be a step in the right direction eh?
how about our good man Mr Tiller tell our buddy Paul Morrison about these rapes and lets show up Mr. Kline - lets show him how a REAL stop the rapists campain is really done.
…..Aren’t all live births reported to the state in vital statistic reports. I assume those are available to law enforcement. …
yes they are - good statement!but I assume your point is that law agencies are not pursuing any identified criminal activity that is reported?
I’d venture to guess that Yost was approached because of his openly hostile stance against Roe v. Wade. In that case, he is biased and should not be part of the case. Research Yost’s past, it’s quite clear.
angel, you blatantly missed my point. My point was that Kline has used the reasoning that he is “investigating child abuse” to subpeona these abortion records. I merely mean to say that I find this suspect because I feel that if he were REALLY looking to investigate child abuse, he would not only subpeona abortion records from ALL abortion clinic, not just Tiller and Planned Parenthood of JoCo, but that he would also subpeona ALL live birth records for underage girls from hospitals, clinics etc… Not once did I say live birth records from an abortion clinic - that you could construe that from my post shows that you either weren’t reading, or you really didn’t get it… YES, I feel this is an abuse of power - and as was stated numerous times yesterday, I will not directly quote, but you can look at the Kline blog from yesterday if you would like a direct quote, it was posted there about 20 times - the Attorney General does not have jursidiction unless granted by the governor (which he did not have) or invited by the District Attorney (which he was not) and that was therefore the grounds for the dismissal of charges, and this is all a publicity ploy on the part of Kline, because he HAD to have known this, since he filed an answering response within 15 MINUTES of the dismissal of charges, which says to me that he was anticipating that, which means he KNEW he was WRONG!
Yost, Clark, Kline… whoever…anything that comes down to a vote has only 2 sides - for or against.
if your pro-choice then…oooh your a baby killer blah blah blah.
if your pro-life then… oooh your a right wing conserva-nazi blah blah blah.
the problem is… the case is not about abortion.
If you want an abortion then go get one (as permitted by law)
If you want to take money from a bank then do it (as long as it is from your own account - during business hours)
DO WHAT EVER THE HECK YOU WANT TO DO. DO IT OFTEN. DO IT FREELY. DO IT WITH OUT ABANDON.
BUT DO IT LEAGALLY.
…blatently? didn’t get it?…
nope i got it. but i have also researched for my self exactly what the obligations of the attorney general are.I said obligations - not powers.
I read the media and the blogs - i know what is said, but I prefer to find the truth. one thing about law… it is always on record and available to the public - for those that choose find it. those who choose not - i guess have no other option than to believe what other people say.
what a shame.
for all the complaints about wasting time and money etc…
lets put Kline out of our misery…
Tiller is innocent - done no wrong and we all know it.
Kline is a boof, has no experience, and no knowledge of the law - and we all know it.
so if the media is correct…
Then let Kline have is day in court.
Tiller will be exhonorated.
Kline will be go down in flames.
and it will finally all be over.
unless all this drama gives us something to do.
If Kline is not the prosecutor in this case, then why did HE file the charges? If Kline appointed a special prosecutor then was he not the one presenting the case? It was a Steve (?) Maxwell that was an assistant to Kline that argued the case to Judge Clark.
Why all the shenanigans by Kline Angel? Could be that your dog in this fight is not as good as you thought?
I suppose some of those liberal European Countries that prohibit later term abortions are just to the political right of the Democratic Party in the U.S.
Roll in it now Demos. One day there will be conclusive proof a fetus is a human being and has its own right to life.
I will say a prayer and put some flowers at the site of the Wichita Holocaust Memorial when that time comes.
btw, I forgot to add, Jimmy Carter, the liberals idol is against abortion.
while you do that JM, you might want to say a prayer for those children born to minor girls who were actually raped. But your anti-abortion group is not concerned about the living - huh?
I always pray for victims Suza. I cannot of course know all of them personally.
And I don’t belong to any anti-abortion group. I know for a medical fact that fetuses after a certain age are totally representative of their species. All those foals, puppies, kitties and other species I helped retrieve through operative birthing tells me that human fetus are no different. That is, they are alive, viable and to kill a human fetus to me is murder.
I’m sorry if I have compassion for those who can’t defend their rights and yes I do recognize the special cases where the fetus is not viable or the mother’s life is in danger, etc.
Suza, you really need to stop and think and not accuse others of what they do or do not do.
ah JM………..a fetus does not have rights. A fetus is not a viable, living organism outside of the womb.
See this is the excitement I miss from working the night shift and sleeping all day. DARN IT.
All I can say is BWAHAHAHAHA- I knew it. Kline has no basis for anything. And women’s rights and freedom reigns.
“ah JM………..a fetus does not have rights. A fetus is not a viable, living organism outside of the womb.”Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 27, 2006 at 06:42 PM
Yeah Blaidd I have heard that argument before.
How long can you live without air, underwater or in a vacuum?
Just because an organism is out of its element doesn’t mean it isn’t viable.
PM: The case was decided on jurisdictional grounds not on the merits. It hardly means there wasn’t any substance to the criminal charges. The fact remains a judge found there was probable cause to file the charges. But feel free to continue to go off half cocked, it is amusing.
I guess the SCOTUS doesn’t agree with you considering the Roe v. Wade ruling many years ago.
Deal with it JM.
“The fact remains a judge found there was probable cause to file the charges.”
For god’s sake. it was Eric Yost who found “probable cause”. go figure!
The SCOTUS only deals with the law and not the science or the morality of it.
It is apparently very easy to make a legal judgment that excludes logical science.
This is why I don’t understand people like Tiller.
He has to exterminate life or it will grow into a human being.
Get it? He is exterminating human life.
“ah JM………..a fetus does not have rights. A fetus is not a viable, living organism outside of the womb”
Actually, the Kansas Supreme Court has created a little condrum for themselves on this point. They have ruled that a “viable” fetus is a person for purposes of a wrongful death action. Thus, making a viable fetus a person for some purposes and not a person for others.
And Clark dismissed on jurisdictional grounds. Comparing judges and alleging bias won’t get you far in this debate.
I am unsure if you are an attorney John Sinovic, but if not perhaps you have an opinion on the following.
Since about half of the abortions are from out of state, what would be the ruling on a person who flees a state for the purposes of obtaining a surgery that is illegal in their own state?
I recall reading that in the Netherlands, they used to stop people at the border checking to see if they were still pregnant. Getting an abortion in another country such as Spain was in the opinion of the Dutch Court a violation of the law and could be prosecuted. To what degree I do not know.
John-boy………cite the Kansas SP case you are referring to please.Do you have proof that Judge Clark has a bias? Yost’s proof of bias is his voting record in the Stae House and Senate.
I can’t see how it would be illegal to cross a state line to have an abortion. The late term abortions Tiller performs are constitutionally protected procedures if the patients fits the definition of the exception.
The question is whether Tiller was discharging his obligation to certify the patient’s for the exception in reasonable manner. I can’t see how a patient could be held criminally liable unless it could be proved they lied about symptoms or diagnosis to mislead the doctor. That I think would be difficult if not impossible to prove unless they used the medical records of someone else or something along those lines to prove a life threatening condition.
JM, just stop trying to control women and their decisions about their bodies. If you don’t want an abortion, don’t get one. Tiller is exterminating UNWANTED human life.
John, thanks for showing exactly why these fetal personhood laws are all about the abortion laws and not about common sense. IF you gave a crap about the women who lost their babies in these situations, you’d stop trying to use it against the abortion debate.
To me, it’s about choice. A woman should have equally the choice to keep her child as much as not. So therefore I believe if you hurt a pregnant woman in the commission of a crime, the time should be double. That way, there are no ‘fetal personhood’ laws to deal with. The laws should reflect that choice. Women who are pregnant are more likely to be victims of crimes than at any other time during their lives. Another reason why some women might want an abortion= their situation may not be safe.
p mom……they don’t understand CHOICE. All they understand is their warped view of Christianity.
Political Mom,
I agree women have a right to control their own bodies. I draw the line at them controlling someone elses, the baby.
I have had men coming to me, distraught beyond comprehension on why their wife/girlfriend is getting an abortion and were told they have no say in it.
Evidently you must have fell asleep in biology when they discussed when life is formed after fertilization.
I don’t recall anywhere in literature that I’ve studied that was scientifically based that the definition of life is only applied to those outside of a womb.
JM you do realize that the woman has to actually carry the baby, and that it affects every cell of her body?
Or don’t you get that.
When you can grow a baby in a jar, then we’ll talk.
Shelton v. DeWitte, 271 Kan. 831, 26 P.3d 650.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/opinion/16323810.htm
“Half the counts allege that George Tiller illegally performed late-term abortions by accepting diagnoses that the pregnancies placed patients’ mental health at risk.
The Supreme Court dealt with that very issue in its February ruling.
“The attorney general has said he disagrees with requiring an exception to preserve the pregnant woman’s mental health,” the court said. “Until the United State Supreme Court or the federal Constitution says otherwise, however, the mental health of the pregnant woman remains a consideration necessary to ensure the constitutionality of the Kansas criminal abortion statute.”
Kline seems to have recklessly ignored that caveat.
His remaining 15 counts involve technical complaints that should be handled administratively, not in criminal court.”
Political Mom,
Not sure what to think about that first statement…
…or the third statement.
As far as me talking or writing are you aware that it is my Constitutional Right?
Or would you rather stifle all that all that don’t agree with you?
I could say the same, but I know better and I thought you would know better too.
PM The law can’t have it both ways. Either a viable fetus is a person for situations or it isn’t. I really don’t care what the Kansas Supreme Court decides as long as it is consistent.
His remaining 15 counts involve technical complaints that should be handled administratively, not in criminal court.”_________________________________
And you know this how? Because Dan Monnat said so?
I think part of the legal inquiry by Kline was that there was no reporting of possible rape to minors. I don’t know what the legal definition of a rape for a minor consists of, but I would think 10-14 year old would definetely qualify.
Why were these not reported in accordance to the law by Tiller?
I love days like today. The anti-choice crowd is having a major MELTDOWN!
JM, there were no charges against reporting the pregnancy to authorities, the charges stem from not reporting the conditions for the pregnancy to the KDHE, which has nothing to do with prosecuting statutory rape cases.
So there was no basis for failure to report a CRIME on Tiller, not even one charge of that. This would be a charge like failure to report a case of TB.
And John, just because you want to use the fetal personhood laws for your agenda, doesn’t mean the majority of us can’t figure out the difference. Ask the family of Chelsea Brooks how they feel about your using the laws their pushing for.
okay john-boy, I read Shelton v. DeWitte, 271 Kan. 831, 26 P.3d 650. I’m not lawyer, but what the hell does that have to do with Kline’s fishing expedition?
IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF SEDGWICK COUNTY, KANSASState of Kansas, Plaintiff, v. GEORGE R> TILLER Defendant.CASE NO. 06CR2961
COUNT TWO:Failure to Repport Justification for Late Term Abortion
That on or about and after July 22, 2003, in Sedgwick County, State of
Kansas, GEORGE R. TILLER did, then and there, contrary to the statutes
of the State of Kansas, unlawfully, after performing or inducing or
causing to be performed or induced an abortion, to wit: file#30, patient
ID #………..(deleted for privacy), state record #…….(deleted for
privacy), on a viable fetus having a gestational age of 22 or more weeks
to wit: 29 weeks of age, did report that the fetus was not viable and
therefore did not report the actual determination of fetus viability,
nor the reasons for such determinations, nor the basis for the
determination that the abortion was necessary to preserve the life of
the pregnant woman or that a continuation of the pregnancy would cause a
substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of
the pregnant woman in writing to the medical care facility in which the
abortion was performed for inclusion in the report of the medical care
facility to the secretary of health and environment under K.S.A. 65-445
and amendmetns thereto, in violation of K.S.A. 65-6703.
Sorry about any errors, I’m not a very good transcriptionist.
Anyway, there appears to be a violation of the law if the cases were not reported as required.
This entry was only the second of the many charges.
What’s your point JM, Judge threw this crap out not once, but TWICE! DA Foulston states this nonsense will not happen in her jurisdiction. it won’t.
“What’s your point JM, Judge threw this crap out not once, but TWICE! DA Foulston states this nonsense will not happen in her jurisdiction. it won’t.” Posted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 27, 2006 at 08:11 PM
Calm down Blaidd…
It was a response to Political Mom and to assure her I have read the documents.
DA Foulston, well there will be a time…
I am calm JM, it is you and your anti-choice crowd that is ahving the meltdown today. Foulston will do her job, worry not.
Hey anti choicers?
I’m a little down on my luck lately.
Can I come over to your house and stay there for oh say 16-18 years or so?
“Hey anti choicers?I’m a little down on my luck lately. Can I come over to your house and stay there for oh say 16-18 years or so?” Posted by: L R | December 27, 2006 at 08:41 PM
What does being down on your luck have to do with being anti-choice?
I have some relatives in Oklahoma that would be glad to let you stay in the bunkhouse as long as you toil along with the rest of the workgroup: You know building/repairing fences/digging post holes/some one-waying/feeding and tending cattle.
JM, read the charges, many of the women were well over the age of 18, so how could it be a failure to report a CRIME.
Really JM?
Do they take pregnant mothers? Post partum, is the baby expected to toil?
This society will never be truly pro life until it takes basic care of ALL its members. That does NOT include putting them in “workgroups”.
Political Mom,
I have read the charges. I know I won’t change anyone’s mind. However, since the blog is here I will put forth my thoughts on the matter.
I have the feeling if I had the absolute truth on anything, you would say something to the contrary just because you stand on the otherside of some invisible Political line.
And J R, take a hike. You are beyond having any sort of reasonable conversation. All you want to do is taunt, call names and generally be disruptive.
I will just ignore your posts like I do others here in the blog. It is relatively easy to do. Ignore mine if you wish, I do not care one way or the other.
I am just amazed at Kline’s tactics. He is tenacious I’ll give him that. I hope that Morrison tkes care of this and that we don’t have to keep dealing with his crap. Even those of you against abortion must see through this smoke screen. If child rapists is what Kline is after he must go after the hospitals because babies are born there. Could someone at least see thaty point?
And JM THINKS he can carry on a “resonable converstaion”.
ROFLMAO
JM I got a better idea.
YOU take a hike. Take your sanctimony with you. Probably you’ll need a wagon for that.
Abortion is going to remain legal. DEAL with it. Give Kline a call and clue him in too.
“Could someone at least see thaty point?” Posted by: Brenda Shull | December 27, 2006 at 09:02 PM
My guess is that the Hospitals are not in violation of reporting procedures.
If you know how to get that information I would be glad to read about it.
I doubt if it accessible to the public at least not in its raw form, perhaps statistically.
Ok JM if I’m wrong, why would a 22 year old need to be reported to the state for statutory rape?
Can you explain that to me?
And JM THINKS he can carry on a “resonable converstaion”. ROFLMAOPosted by: Blaidd Drwg | December 27, 2006 at 09:07 PM
Besides having my own view. If I have written something unreasonable, point it out or better,let us discuss it.
“Ok JM if I’m wrong, why would a 22 year old need to be reported to the state for statutory rape?Can you explain that to me?”
I don’t know what specifically you are referring to the legal document I have read, let me peruse it and see what it says.
I doubt it says anything about statutory rape. I’m somewhat appalled that you don’t think I don’t know what that means. brb
JM, your “view” is one contrary to the ruling of the SCOTUS, You are entitled to your dissenting view, but that doesn’t make your view correct.
Abortion is legal, deal with it. Kline is on fishing expedition, he got his ass kicked twice. Deal with it.
Here is the statute that requires mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse. It is the same statute that I must adhere to as well.
Minors–Kansas Code for Care of Children; Matters Prior to Filing Petition–Mandatory Abuse Reporting Statute
Persons listed in K.S.A. 1992 Supp. 38-1522 are required to notify the department of social and rehabilitation services (S.R.S.), or a law enforcement agency if S.R.S. is closed, if they have reason to suspect that a child has been sexually abused regardless whether the alleged perpetrator resides in the child’s home. A mandated reporter who refuses to notify S.R.S. because of a promise extracted by the victim or the victim’s family violates the law and subjects himself or herself to criminal prosecution. Cited herein: K.S.A. 1992 Supp. 38-1502; K.S.A. 38-1521; K.S.A. 1992 Supp. 38-1522; 38-1523; K.S.A. 65-5810; 65-5812.
Now, nowhere in there does it say that they must notify the KDHE. The KDHE failure to report must be based on something else.
And note, no charges have been filed against Tiller for violation of this statute above.
Political Mom,
I could only find one instance in the legal document Kline filed. It is as follows (excerpt):
In file #37, patient ID….., the defendant wrongfully relied on a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode, to determine that a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman when such diagnosis does not establish that a continuation of the pregancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of major bodily function of the pregnant woman, in violation of KSA 65-6703.
Evidently, there is in the Attorney General Office’s view that a single episode of Depression Disorder is not described as a reason under Kansas Law for a physician to interpret such as causing a major bodily function to cause irreversible or substantial impairment.
At least that’s how I read it.
Political Mom,
The only two K.S.A I have referenced thus far are:K.S.A. 65-445K.S.A. 65-6703
I didn’t see that on your list.
This is the statute that Kline is saying Tiller allegedly did not report…and it has nothing to do with child abuse.
http://www.hodesnauser.com/65-6703.htm
So none of these cases have anything to do with the age of the person, or any abuse.
But JM, you were earlier saying that the age of the person made reporting mandatory, and I’m saying it had nothing to do with that.
SCOTUS has already ruled that a mental health exception is a valid reason for a late-term abortion. How would it cause permanent harm to a person? Well if they kill themselves, I’m sure that’s permanent harm.
Political Mom,
The 65-6703 has to do with Public Health and Abortion.
The twenty two year old’s case from the legal document referenced this as a violation.
I’m somewhat confused why you hanging on to the child abuse with the twenty two year old?
Is there something I’m not aware of involving this matter of the twenty two year old?
No, you are changing your story now.
You said way back here :
“I think part of the legal inquiry by Kline was that there was no reporting of possible rape to minors. I don’t know what the legal definition of a rape for a minor consists of, but I would think 10-14 year old would definetely qualify.
Why were these not reported in accordance to the law by Tiller?
Posted by: JM | December 27, 2006 at 07:37 PM ”
You were wrong, and now you are trying to change your story. I showed you none of the reporting had to do with the ages.
“But JM, you were earlier saying that the age of the person made reporting mandatory, and I’m saying it had nothing to do with that.”
Yes, Political Mom, but with the Case#2 that I posted. And there are others, but far too lengthy to post here where minors where involved.
I see what you are saying about the SCOTUS decision on depression. I’m wondering since the Kansas Statute is still on the books if it was written before or after the the SCOTUS decision?
I haven’t read the SCOTUS decision , so would be in the dark on “exactly” it says or legally implies in regards to states making their own laws on the matter.
I betcha McKinney doesnt find the same things that Kline did… Betcha he doesnt find anything!
Political Mom,
In case#30, I transcribed charge #2 which refers to the failure to report. That happened to be tied to charge #1 which I did not transcribe here which also involves a 14 year old female in case#30 which refers to an unlawful abortion.
Both charges refer to the same 14 year old female.
JM surely you can see that your argument is dead. Think REALLY hard about why there is no charges against Tiller for violation of statute K.S.A. 1992 Supp. 38-1522, the mandatory reporting of suspected abuse.
I know you can get this. Put your mind to it.
Ok maybe I’ll just help you out. MAYBE Tiller actually DID report and followed the law? Hmm?
Let us not forget to rub this mess into the faces of every GOP candidate who mutters complaints about activist judges. Kline, Yost, Brownback, all are guilty of judicial manipulation and activism.They should be imprisoned, beaten, and forced to recite the Koran.
BANGS HEAD AGAINST THE DESK.
JM, you’re a lost cause. NONE NONE NONE OF THE FAILURES TO REPORT REFER TO SEX CRIMES OR ABUSE OR AGE. THEY REFER TO REPORTING THE REASONS FOR THE ABORTION TO THE KDHE.
If that is true Political Mom about Tiller reporting. All he has to do is go before the court and wave the papers around stating that he did indeed file the proper papers.
Can you prove Tiller did this?
Correct Political Mom.
Failure to report or performing illegal abortions are crimes if not in compliance according to Kansas Statutes. That is what the Attorney Generals’s Office filed.
Tiller has nothing to prove. He should remain silent. Pushing misdemeanor charges only stands to sensationalize for the benefit of pro-lifers to get national attention.
You just don’t get it. Jesus. He doesn’t have to prove in court that he filed the correct papers regarding reporting abuse, because he was NEVER CHARGED WITH THAT.
nitey nite Political Mom,I enjoyed discussing this with you.Time for me to get clean and showered.
Did you finally get it?
Kline’s a Putz.
Too bad I got into this too late but here’s some info we have on ol’ McKinney:
http://www.maggotpunks.com/antis/files/012.htm
Sunny,”If the anti-abortion group would only spend a tenth of their money and time on preventing unwanted pregnancies and reducing the number of abortions performed, then maybe God would be proud of them.”
That of course would be the rational thing to do. Unfortunately, at least among the radical anti’s who control the movement, it seems to be more about the fact that abortions are permitted than that they’re performed.Despite propaganda to the contrary, the actual welfare of women and children doesn’t enter in to their religious equation. From what many of them have said, it’s the legality of abortion that God (read them) disapproves of.None seem the least concerned about the return of the back-alley abortionists that wreaked death and destruction on women for over a century prior to R.v.W. As one who identified himself only as “Brother Truth” said recently in answer to that question, “If whores suffer at the hands of butchers because of our efforts, then God’s judgement has been rendered.”
not many rape victims want to keep their baby (if they got pregnant from the rape)
not many parents of minors want to have their little girls keep their baby when caused by rape
why should kline only look for rape victims at hospitals maternity wards? when rape victims hardly ever go the distance?
the evidence is at the abortion clinics.
I am against abortion but how about this, if a woman is raped and wants an abortion, she must file criminal charges against her attacker?
it appears that JM also reads the actual documents on this case?
good job if he does. because he also now knows that this is not about abortion.
most of you are just using this case as an occasion to hate each other.
Most “women”, “” are for the fact that they are usually teens and early twenties and still “girls” in my opinion, when they think they may be pregnant go to their personal physician or a clinic to validate the pregnancy. Why are these records not being sought instead of the records from Tiller? Shouldn’t they be held responsible for notifying the authorities of underage sex, rape, etc.?
Actually, Angel, my basis for my arguement that Kline was not within his rights to file charges WAS the Kansas statutes regarding the responsibilities and POWERS of the Attorney General’s office - I don’t mindlessly regurgitate other people’s opinions - I merely felt that since it was posted NUMEROUS times on another blog which I am sure a large majority of the people posting on here read, that it was not necessary for me to post it personally here - I am fully capable of researching facts before I post them, and most often do… BUT, if you would like for me to back up my points with quotes, I certainly can, just let me know…
Okay, all of you pro lifers who want all of this aired out. Let’s get your medical records. Post them up right here! To me, this is not so much about choice, but about the right to have private medical records. I’ve said it before, if you got the clap in college, who do you want to know about that?Come on! Give it up! Let me see those medical records. Even if you’ve done nothing wrong, I want to see your medical records. Do you want me to go to your doctor and be able to just look and make sure that you didn’t get that nasty case of the clap before you were 16? How did you get it? Were you molested or were you just fooling around with another adventurous 15 year old? Do I have the right to know that?
Privacy, Who are you trying to fool. First the Kansas Supreme Court compelled the release of the records with all identifying information redacted. Thus, while the records were produced none of the patients could be identified. Second, your “private” medical records are always subject to subpoena. The Kansas Board of Healing Arts subpoenas records all the time and the records are provided in a redacted manner.Phill should be disbarred if it is proven he was involved, or looked the other way, when the records were leaked to O’Reilly. But that is really irelevant to the fact he obtained them legally and other obtain medical records legally on daily basis.
if you want to quote the law, statutes, and final rulings - then that is great - make sure you shepardize the rulings though.And correctly apply the rulings in context.
bring it on. I would much rather discus legal documents than personal feelings - or debate choices.
I don’t care about Kline - just the law.
the law is the only common point that citizens have.
if there is now law on your subject, then you can do/choose as you please.
if there is a law… you must abide by the law.
take the names Kline and Tiller out of the case.
take the red herrings out of the case - (it is not about abortion)
no names - no red herrings just the law
good point sinovic,
if I could get my hands on the released med records givin the the AG - it would not embarass any one. there are no names, adresses or ph#s.
however. re: O’Reilly… he has his own investigators. I would suspect that if any leaking took place - it was from O’Rielly to Kline. Not from Kline to O’Rielly…
that guy may be an arrogant pompass axx but think he might actually know more about Tiller and friends than Kline.
John,So, go get your records. You can leave your name out if you want. Even if you haven’t done anything wrong, I just want to make sure you haven’t done anything or been wronged in some way. Go get them. I want to see your records. It’s for your protection, really. I just want to make sure your doctor is on the up and up. You want everything aired out, go get them and show them to me. Or did you not file any charges against anyone and don’t want me to be snooping in your records? Come on, this is for your own good. Think of who I can protect by looking at everyone’s records, just in case.
another point - Tillers attys filed to the court to have the case made public…( thats why everyone knows the details of what is going on)
^^YOU can protect no one. The DA, the AG, the KSBOHA can protect many. That is why they are given subpoena power.
You need to calm down a bit, you are way too emotional about this.
NO SOL. Rape is the most underreported crime of all. Many women would rather die than go through a co