Of the 42 soldiers from Kansas who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, 29 have come from rural communities, The Eagle reported. Nationally, the death rate of soldiers from rural areas is 60 percent higher than those from urban and suburban areas. A main reason for the higher rates is that rural areas have higher enlistment rates — in large part because there are fewer job opportunities in rural areas.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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74 Comments
Same reason Iraqis reform the lines to sign up after suicide bombings, want to feed their families. Or is it just patriotic Iraqis that are dying to have democracy, you be the judge.
I bet you would find higher enlistment rates in the South as well. There is a culture in rural areas, especially the South, that includes serving your country. People can always go to the big city to find a job – rural people join the military for other reasons.
I guess this kind of puts to bed the Democratic lie about minorities in the inner city taking the brunt of the sacrifice of war. Guess we don’t need a draft after all.
I respond to this blog as someone who has never lived on, or worked on for that matter, a farm. I did live briefly in a rural Kansas town, although it was dominated by a Mennonite community that has historically been opposed to any type of armed conflict. I doubt, therefore, that I can directly relate to the type of rural Kansas community that has been over-represented among the sacrificed in the War on Terror.
That disclaimer aside, I am dissappointed that Mr. Brownlee did not make an observation which ought to carry more weight than whatever economic opportunities exist in these communities. They are, for lack of a better term, more “old-fashioned.” And I use this term in an extremely positive light. Unlike those of us in the city, they are used to concepts like having to plant and till a piece of ground for an entire growing season in the hopes of receiving a single paycheck for the entire year. They understand that one disaster could literally wipe out that effort. I think it would be fair for those of us in town to consider why they would go through all that risk and headache. While I do not pretend to know the complete answer, I guess with some certainty that if they do not do the planting, the tilling, the harvesting, and the sending of the product to market, the consequences would be disasterous for themselves and their futures.
I would contend that this mental prisim provides a far better explanation as to why the farm kids are enlisting and dying more frequently in Iraq and Afghanistan. None of us can ever seriously know whether we will win this conflict, and in my personal world of quick and certain guarantees, that uncertainty makes me uncomforatable. They, on the other hand, have already learned from life’s experiences to put those concerns aside and do whatever is necessary to protect their way of life, this time not from a hailstorm or from economic conditions, but from people intent on destroying them.
These individuals continue to earn our nation’s gratitude for their sacrifice.
For me, the answer is both; that is, a combination of a lack of economic opportunity combined with a “cultural” belief in service to the country.
I recently retired from KNG- there are no ZIP code restrictions on patriotism!
I agree with what Vaughn Tolle said- it’s a mixture of both patriotism and financial necessity.
Excellent analysis Larry Crop. I think that the factors you mention also make rural America, where I was born and raised, more conservative, patriotic, and religious than the urban areas.
But thank God for our military men and women, wherever they come from.
Larry is right, in many respects, but there are even more.
Those in rural areas are also familiar with firearms. Most boys get their first gun around the age of 8. The military is an extension of that. Joining the military gives them the chance to see the world, something they probably wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do. To be honest, those reasons vary with the individual.
But having spent the majority of my life in rural Kansas, I can’t say that the percentage of young men (and women) joining the military is all that much higher than urban dwellers. Maybe it’s a Kansas thang.
And, by the way, Larry, I’m sure Joe Williams would disagree with you about how hard farmers work. He believes they all sit back on their laurels and collect subsidy checks to live the high life, driving expensive SUV’s.
Right, Joe?
Good analysis Larry Crop.
I’m pushing 45 years, but through my nieces and nephews I’ve met everal young men and women who headed off to boot camp after graduating college with bachelors degrees. They had a choice, I honor and admire their choice. It just blows to hell the myth regarding people joining for lack of economic choices.
The vast majority of rural Americans are White. Most minorities in the military are in support rather than combat roles. As a result rural Whites are doing most of the dying, and killing for the zionist-big oil machine!
Viva la Revolucion Blanco!!
I would say that the observation of ecomomic needs prompting joining is MOSLTY spot on. Myself? I cannot imagine fighting for this country out of choice. I do not see it at this time as worth fighting for.
JR, the people here are worth fighting for, regardless of what the preznut does.However, I share your feeling that this war is not just.
Since the rural areas voted to invade Iraq, one could say the rural areas are responsible for us being in the middle of someone else’s civil war. Maybe the rural folks should bay the $2 trillion price tag also.
Do the Bush twins count as rural or city folk?
Holy crap! Did you really say that you don’t think this country is worth fighting for, JR?
THAT is anti-American as you can get.
How is invading and subjugating Iraq protecting America?
I’m not talking about the current war or any war. I’m talking about a statement made of this country not being worth fighting for. That’s just wrong.
SOB
How is it “anti American” to voice my opinion that America is not CURRENTLY worth fighting for? Just when did blind jigoistic fervor become the standard of patriotism?
Ok, you’ve clarified that you don’t think America is worth fighting for now. You can think that if you want. I will still think of it as quite anti-American.
Junior,If you’re going to try to use a cool vocabulary word like “jingoistic” – it helps to spell it correctly.
Just a little tip from your pal. =)
I think it’s sad that we are still mixing two subjects: How much you love this country (or not, and frankly I don’t care if you don’t), and whether invading and ruling Iraq actually achieves anything.
If a person loves this country, and believes spending $2 trillion and thousands of soldiers’ lives is hurting this country, then opposing Bush’s blind adventure is the most patriotic thing one could do.
The debate should be: Was invading Iraq a good idea? It should not be an argument about who does or doesn’t love this country.
Frankly, I love this country because it gives people the right to hate this country. I also think it’s awesome that our national anthem was originally a drinking song.
I’m not exactly crazy about how the Iraq war is going myself. I just noted that saying this country isn’t worth fighting for is anti-American. That’s it. Simple.
A few people who served their country.
Al GoreJohn McCainJohn Kerry
And I can’t remember his name just now but the guy who lost 2 legs and an arm in Vietnam.
How did certain people in this country honor THEIR service?
No one has actually fought for anything resembling the survival of this country for over 50 years. They serve on behalf of the nations “interests”.
Few of those “interests” have any interest to me or in fact to any regular American.
Hasn’t hit but just over 1/3 of 1 trillion. Where did you get 2 trillion?
nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182
zfacts.com/p/447.html
Should we have gone to Iraq? Really doesn’t make a difference right now. We are there.
Did you ever stop and think that bashing Bush hurts far more than you think?
You are bashing the soldier’s Commander in Chief. Whether you like him or not, most soldiers do and respect him.
What do you think our enemies do with that? Bet they run it up the flag pole every chance they get.
What do you get out of it? You get to blow a lot of hot air, make yourself feel more important? Nice return on investment.
Free speech. Just because you can doesn’t always mean you should.
Posts may cross here.
I do an awful lot of “fighting” for this country right here on this forum.
I regularly advocate for national healthcare for instance. That’s just one example. There are many others.
For my troubles at urging for a better society, I am railed at as a socialist. Fair enough.
Thing that always gets me? The same sort of folk who want no part of “socialism” are oh so eager to embrace it and demand it of ME when it comes to fighting for this country.
What greater example of socialism is there than putting your life on the line for other people? The draft is the most socialist thing a nation can do. Demand that somoene put aside all their own interests and even their well being for others?
SO when the nation gets on board with a LITTLE socialism short of war, I could maybe see embracing the call to defend it.
No one has actually fought for anything resembling the survival of this country for over 50 years. They serve on behalf of the nations “interests”. Few of those “interests” have any interest to me or in fact to any regular American.”Posted by: J R | December 21, 2006 at 11:27 AM
No wonder you don’t care if you’re Anti-American, you have less of a clue of what American Military does than a native of Antartica.
World War I and II were also started by foreign powers. The Germans made mistake attacking our ships in WWI and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in WWII.
So, in your opinion a nation or some sort of entity that causes harm and doesn’t attack the U.S. doesn’t count as ‘real’ military service.
Those foreign powers know better than to attack the U.S. because of a strong military.
There have been implementations to keep enemy states in check since WWII; like Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Soviet Union, Cuba.
So you don’t appreciate the military that has kept you safe.
I think some of my Marine buddies would like to give you an attitude adjustment as they get around on no legs, missing arms. Or perhaps some of the former Army who have nitemares every day because of their time in Vietnam.
Maybe you want to make a speech at the local VFW or American Legion. I’m sure they will listen intently while you belittle their service.
You sir are a nothing more than rotted puke in this society that doesn’t appreciate the men and women who served to protect your scummy ass.
Pathetic, go find another beer to drown yourself in.
This reminds me of the game “twister”
Should we have gone into Iraq? You bet it makes a difference now. Why? Because the people who decided we should go to Iraq were WRONG. And those people should not be trusted to make decisions about where we go in the future. There is 51% of voters in this country I do not trust to make the right choice now.
It is very important question: Was invading Iraq a smart thing to do, or a stupid thing to do? With your 20/20 hindsight, tell me: How good was your foresight?
And did it ever occur to Bush or his supporters that Bashing other elected officials is not such a good idea either? No it did not. They still do it today.
Sorry, bud, this is a democracy. We can and must criticize the decisions of our elected leaders. If your war plan is so fragile it can be defeated with criticism, then scrap your war plan immediately.
Pssst….JR, there’s no current draft either. Nobody is demanding that you fight.
“Did you ever stop and think that bashing Bush hurts far more than you think?”
Yes, I thought about it and the answer is NO. Blindly following him is infinitely more harmful to my country than pointing out the fact that his policies are a diaster.
If we pulled all our troops out today, the cost of the Iraq war would be that $1/3 trillion. You know that won’t happen. The cost will go way up as Bush escalates to the tune of “It doesn’t matter if it was the right thing to do, we’re there now.”
So who pays for it? Or do we continue to borrow and devalue the dollar further? So add interest to the cost of the war which our young soldiers and their children will be paying for years to come.
JM?
I suggest you go find that beer and drink it nice and slow before you post again.
You put a whole lotta words to my credit that I did not post.
You forget yourself sir. Or do you not remember being struck by the fact that I thanked you for your service this last Veterans day?
There is great nobility in service to country. What I question is the exploitation and misuse of that nobility.That makes me eminently more pro military than some yahoo banging the drums to war.
—–
??? My war plan? Fragile? Defeated? All you said was that you didn’t agree. I wouldn’t call it broken by any stretch. It would do more good than just packing up bags and blowing the country.
Were you around for Viet Nam? I was not, but I know enough about it to understand that all the demonstrations and ‘hippy movement’ did nothing but damage the country.
Cynic,No one is telling you (or asking – whatever) to blindly do anything NOR follow anyone.
Thing is Sol, not “bashing” Bush becomes tacit acceptance of him – AND his abject failures. So, NOT bashing Bush is worse for America than “bashing” him is.
No thanks J R, I give back your ‘thanks’ for my service.
One thing I hate is someone who speaks out of both sides of their mouth.
You would just as soon badmouth me or any other service member the moment I left the room.
Fake thank you’s are not needed or wanted.
here, post this on your wall as a daily reminder what a socialistic smuck you are:
” No one has actually fought for anything resembling the survival of this country for over 50 years. They serve on behalf of the nations “interests”.
Few of those “interests” have any interest to me or in fact to any regular American.”
I think we should all take a moment and silently thank our little ‘BLOG warior’ for all he has done to keep this country safe.
I, for one, don’t know what we would do without great Americans like him!
Hank
Here here! Thank you to all in the military for your brave service. (I know this wasn’t silent, I wanted to share)
JM
You really are a santimonious reactionary aren’t you?
People like you fill graveyards. And I mean that in any way you choose to take it.
You’ll have to do a bit more than a foamy rant to prove a charge of hypopcrisy on me. You are invited to try.
My words, now twice reposted by you, are correct. They may be uncomfortable to face, but they are true.
I demean no one their service. I think I’ve said that twice now.
It is my very great honor to have the respect of three or four Vietnam veterans who post this forum. If more people had had the concern and respect I do for their service, that long black wall might have a few less names on it.
Let me be more clear for you. No one who died or sacrificed or served for this country did so for nothing. Their service is not lessened by their country having failed them it’s better judgement.
Anyone who thinks the hippies protesting agains the Vietnam war did more damage than the war itself, or the conservatives who pushed to escalate the war is sadly misguided.
It appears we are learning the same lesson again, 40 years later. Or mabye we aren’t.
J R,
You’re just another wordsmithing worm who only believes what he can at the moment.
If it doesn’t fit into your daily agenda, you can disgard it and take a position of convenience.
If you are a true socialist, give up your wealth, share it. Socialists don’t need to own a car or a house. They can live on the people’s land and use the people’s transportation.
Oh wait, you’re not that kind of socialist, you want to keep what you got and blame others what they have achieved.
Face it, you’re just a hypocrit that hides behinds his words and wipes the necessity of those who defend his country on his mucous filled sleeve.
“It appears we are learning the same lesson again, 40 years later. Or mabye we aren’t.”
Having live through the Vietnam Era, I could not agree more.
1969 – A secret plan to end the war – Richard Nixon (’68 Presidential campaign.)
1973 – America’s direct involvement in the war finally ends – 20,000 American deaths later.
You would think that we would learn.
BTW – The cost in dollars of the War on Iraq has now passed, in inflation adjusted dollars, the cost of the Vietnam War.
J M
I said a little socialism.
Oh that’s right, you’ve more than demonstrated your lack of reading comprehension.
And why have we changed subjects exactly? Nevermind. Let’s go through your little word salad and see if we can find anything to make you look a little more foolish than you already have.
” …only believes what he can at the moment.”
I’ve a long history of posting here. Go see me flip flop on anything.
“…take a position of convenience.”
There you are calling me a hypocrite again. Cite an example?
Climb off your high horse mister. Put up or shut up.
Interesting discussion going on here. I’m from Kentucky, a state with a fairly large rural population. In Kentucky we’ve seen rural jobs disappear. Farming is just about dead here. The coal business hires far fewer people than it did even a decade ago.
I know there no shortage a patriotism in Rural America, but I see kids in rural Kentucky competing for minimun wage jobs and there’s not enough of them.
Someone tell, are there still lots of family farms where one can make a living. Are there the same number of jobs in farming as there were in Kansas years ago?
I suspect this story has some credence. The military always does better recuiting hard economic times. Jobs seem to be disappearing in at least my part of rural America. I’m a Vietnam Vet, Eastern Kentucky born and raised, but I’m not sure we’re any more patriotic than someone from an urban area. I served with too many city boys in Vietnam to believe I have some special extra patriotic bone in my body.
So, I’d like to here from any of you and learn more about the economy in rural Kansas. Are rural folks from Kansas leaving good jobs to go fight in Iraq?
By the way, I wanted to point out a website for you. ruralstrategies.org has a lot of information on this issue, including the orginal Carsey Report the article is based on. Interesting stuff. Thanks much.
Hey, Nick, where in Eastern Kentucky are you from?
I am from EK also.
I was raised outside Hindman in Knott County. You?
Nick, I do not live in rural Kansas, although grew up there, and have family living there. The following comments are limited to my observations and family. Others may well differ, and in any event, should IMO post their respnse.
In answer to the ultimate question posed in your first post, I suspect, but do not absolutely know, the answer is no. Based upon my two adult nephews, both of whom have “good jobs”, neither has left to join the military; the elder of them was considering it when he was employed at a “dead end” job, but the Iraq invasion happened and he found a better position.
It is my observation that the number of family farms is steadily declining in rural Kansas; the 2000 census reported a declining proportion of the state’s population being in the rural areas. I further understand from my siblings living in the rural areas that it is becoming more difficult for their offspring to land even a minimum wage job in the small town(s) where they are located, as there are more potential employees than employers with jobs.
My immediate family is out of farming; I still have cousins who farm. They all say it is becoming more difficult to make a living operating a “family farm”, with some of them working a second job in town, and in all but one case, their wives working fulltime off the farm. One of my sisters-in-law is from a family who has a small dairy operation; they are finding it a struggle to continue, for all the normal reasons, together with the inability to attract help. The help shortage is due, in part, to the neighboring families selling out, lessening the pool of possible labor, and the smaller family size of those who stay.
One of my nieces recently married; her husband’s family recently converted their farming operation to a private hunting preserve, for lack of a better term. The increase in income and decrease in hard work has been remarkable. I suspect this may be something other families might want to consider, but have not heard it becoming a widely spread thing. I know the state visitor’s bureau is promoting agrotourism, in the thought that it will attract outside dollars to the state from those who have never been on a farm. I am not familiar with the success (or lack thereof) this program has had.
Hope you find this informative.
For those in the ‘Farming Know’, are corporations taking over private farming?
J R
Using a blog as a resume’ item.
Now that’s pathetic.
Sol, not too sure what you are after with your question on corporations taking over farming.
The law in Kansas on “agricultural corporations” is found at K.S.A. 17-5903 et seq. If you follow it through, you will note its attempt to restrict ownership or leasing of real property used or usable for agricultural purposes to “small corporations”. Give it a read, all who are interested.
I have formed family farm corporations for clients as a part of their overall planning; thus, if one would go to certain areas of the state, a “corporation” would be found owning, operating, or both, the farm. However, the corporation, for the most part, is likely made up of a family unit, and is not a multi-national vertically integrated behemoth.
Nick, born in Jarvis, halfway between London and Barbourville, my grandparents farm, Knox County.
That was a long, long time ago.
I have an brother, aunt and several cousins that still live in Corbin.
I’ve just heard about corporations taking over farming. Taking what they’ve grown, mostly corn, to impoverished areas that have been globalized with free trade. The corporations dump as much product as they can crying free trade foul if it is not bought. It is driving small farmers in those countries out of business as they can’t compete.
This is hear-say, so I was being lazy and posting here instead of researching.
Thanks Vaughn, I suspect the same thing’s happening all over rural America. The same thing happened in my family. My Grandfather grew up farming and continued to do so all his life, though he kept a full-time job in the oil fields of Lee County. But as time went on, he let someone else run the farm on share, and finally sold the farm in the late 50’s
In Kentucky, our main cash crop in a lot of counties, tobacco, is gone. My dad worked in the oil fields until he went to college and ended up being a County Ag Agent. He worked hard all his life to find ways for small farmers to succeed, including setting up a couple of large chicken facilities in Knott County. Both houses failed as single families couldn’t afford the losses incurred when things didn’t go well. On bad year and they were both out of business. Dad was one of the most frustrated men on the planet back in those days.
There has been some growth in the area of marijuana growing, but not on the large scale often depicted in the media. Most folks growing pot are growing a few plants to supplement their income, often working odd jobs, growing a garden, etc. Of course, there’s a legal element one has to deal with in the pot business.
I do believe there’s something to this story. In the past, I would have thought the majority of the casualities would have been from the south, but looking at the Carsey Report the high casuality rate has no regard to region. The common denominator is rural. Vermont, a New England state, as the highest death rate, a substantial percentage coming from rural areas. I belong to the Rural Caucus on DailyKos. It’s a Yahoo Group. When you log in, the first Yahoo ad you see is an ad promising up to $30,000 in bonuses to join the Army. It’s no accident this ad is placed where it is. The Army’s marketing folks know where their audience lives.
Thank all of you for writing about this issue. It’s good to hear all points of view. I think this is not a left or right issue. Every time a soldier dies in Iraq, their death touches us all and we all, Democrat or Republican mourn their passing. Anyone wishing to continue this conversation, you can reach me a nickstump@gmail.com.
Thanks again for all your posts.
WS, you can alway tell someone is from the Appalachian area. They always ask what part you’re from. I wrote a fan letter to Jim Webb in Virginia a while back. I alway loved his books. This was long before he became the Senator from Virgina. The first thing he asked me was where in Eastern Kentucky I was from. A couple of e-mails later we were claiming kin.
I too, have family in the Corbin and London area. As I live in the big city of Louisville now, I joke that I’ve gone further west than anyone else in my family.
Louisville rocks – love that town. I have a couple of Aunts and Uncles that live in the Greater Louisville Metro area.
As for Hindman – up the road from Pineville. Hang a left towards Beverly. My Grandmother was an Asher, born in Redbird. My great (x3) grandfather was Dillion Asher, buried at the Redbird Christian Retreat complex outside of Beverly.
Small world…
I once played music at the Redbird Mission. My band, the Metropolitan Blues All-Stars were the opening act for a husband and wife team who did a Conway Twitty-Loretta Lynn cover act. We were cautioned to not use bad language. :)
People who live in rural areas tend to be more sincere and trusting other people. I was raised in a rural area and we knew everybody that was around us. We cared about our neighbors and we cared about our country.
Urban people are so wrapped in themselves and their jobs, they don’t even know half their neighbors. Everything is so hustle-bustle that there is no time to even sit down and think about anyone else rather than yourself in the city.
I think that’s why rural America has more soldiers than the urban areas? Just a thought.
At least JR is consistent. A little while ago he stated that the military “doesn’t deserve the latest technology” in weapons.
Now why do you wanna go and lie on me like that raptor?
There was a thread on a new technology to use microwaves as a weapon to BURN people. I said NO ONE should have that technology because of the potential to use no blood technology for control of civil populations. I did not address the military battlefield applications. I don’t recall that they were brought up.You owe me an apology.
JM?
“using a blog as a resume”?
I’ve no idea what you are talking about. Neither do you apparently. Same as it ever was.
Jr. you are right, and I am sorry. I confused your views with the despicable and loathesome quote from mrage, saying the military didn’t deserve the finest technology available.
I made a mistake and am sorry.
J R
That microwave technology for the defense department has been around for a long time. In fact I was working on it in middle 1970s. It’s not new, get over it.
And yeah, you use the Blog as a resume’ as if time spent here is some sort of pseudo qualification of you being “right” and everyone else is wrong.
Where you using computers in the 1970s? I was. I was online before there was an Internet. I ran the mechanics of a Philosophy board online before people even knew what dialup was. So, if it’s qualifications you want,there it is.
You’re just another johnny-come-lately nethead who suddenly got “wisdom” because he can type in his underwear on his home computer with his beer and bag of cheetos.
J R, are you blogging in your underwear again?
Naughty boy.
Just for the record, I am wearing jeans, a sweatshirt and my Eastlands. I am wearing underwear, if anyone in concerned.
But I am drinking a beer.
No cheetos – I wouldn’t want to spoil my dinner.
Thank you raptor I appreciate that. I don’t need to get flack for stuff I DIDN’T post. I do quite well on my own:)
Clark,I agree with you. I am old enough to have lived through Vietnam and I think part of the problem with those that got us involved in Iraq is they didn’t learn from Vietnam either because their rich father got them out of it(GW?) or they didn’t serve.My husband was drafted during Vietnam but was sent to Germany. He spent 24 years in the National Guard. I blame him for the the fact that 2 of my 3 boys joined the Guard as well. Both are in the Middle East now. I think they are both pretty patriotic as well but maybe a little less now that they have been exposed to GW’s way of running the war. I supported GW when we went to Afganastan and I hoped we were doing the right thing in going to Iraq. I really resent being lied to but of course no one would have gone along if he had told us the truth. I think it is unfair to call JR “unamerican” when he is just doing what we all say we fighting for, free speech. Oh I forgot, we only want to fight for the free speech we agree with.
Posted by: Brenda Shull | December 21, 2006 at 09:05 PM”I think it is unfair to call JR “unamerican” when he is just doing what we all say we fighting for, free speech. Oh I forgot, we only want to fight for the free speech we agree with.”
Here is what J R wrote:”I cannot imagine fighting for this country out of choice. I do not see it at this time as worth fighting for.”
Plus other things he has written. He a selfish, socialistic, all-for-himself type of person only raising his communist head to speak out when he thinks he’ll get some notice to settle his psychologically shriveled ego.
Brenda, first I wish your boys well in the Middle East and I hope and pray that they come home safely.
Second, I have great respect for your husband for having served.
I was actively against the war in Vietnam and expressed my opposition with peaceful protest. As most of us said at the time, we were against the war but not against the soldiers. Most of the men and women dying in ‘Nam were our friends and brothers.
I was nineteen when the draft instituted a lottery. I drew 202 in the first round and was not drafted. At the time of the lottery, I had already decided that I would go if drafted. It was a difficult decision, but I could not imagine allowing someone else to die in my place.
My son is the same age now. He wants to “go military” and has since he was a little boy. He has decided that he will not go into the military so long as George W Bush is Commander in Chief.
That is his choice and I support him whole heartedly.
What a crazy world we live in….
I remember Sept 11. I remember watching those towers fall. I remember thinking to myself that I wanted to go after the bastards that did it. I seriously thought about joining the military. A few things happened in life that delayed that than lo and behold I ended up with kids…
I than realized later (and to this day) that the war was being fought completely wrong and also that there was no need to invade Iraq. Now im very very very glad that i didnt join and all of my friend know that i will never join with Bushie in office and probably wont with any Republican in office.
Maybe World War 3, possibly if there was a real threat to my children… But we will see…
JM? If you wanna swap shots I am more than game. Let’s throw a few your way before I take your last post apart. Sir? You seem to have 2 issues which matter to you. One is a passion in the direction of taking away a womans right to choose. Your rants on that particular subject more than define you as a ranting, self righteous kook. The other issue dear to your soul is that george bush and this country are not to be questioned in any way shape or form. Again, the province of a narrow minded, willfully ignorant, kook. I said ( and you have now reposted three times) that I did not see this country as worth fighting for at this time. Note “at this time”. That is my opinion. And I am certainly not alone in it. If you wish for me to expand on why you better get comfortable and just ask. “Plus other things he has written.” I could pick on your grammar here. I’d rather ask you to cite just what other posts I have made that you think define me as….. “He a selfish” I am? Just how would you know that? “socialistic” Hey genius read my posts on this very thread. I defined military service as the ultimate socialistic act. I advocated a little, other types of socialism that might make this country more worth fighting for. I can expand on that too if you would like. “all for himself type of person” Uh? I think you just called me a fiscal conservative. That’s the biggest insult you’ve levelled at me yet and completely at odds with almost every post I make. “communist” Wow you really have no imagination do you? You grew up during red baiting and it stuck didn’t it? “settle his pshcologically shriveled ego” I post for attention? Oh yeah answering shots from an intellectual midget like you is how I get my kicks baby. I’ve really nothing better to do. I LIKE negative attention from morons. Now I’m gonna invite you to either inquire further as to anything you would like to know. Failing that I’m gonna invite you to climb off my ass and come find me on any other thread. My frail ego aside, I dislike our personal battle monopolizing this thread. Your spittle lace rants and my answers to them don’t add alot to what has otherwise been an enlightening thread. P S. Thanks Brenda.
By the way JM?
Instead of obsessing on me, why not read some of the other posts here.
It seems I am not alone in my reservations. I’m just a little more strident in them.
So many words and says so little.
I said enough to turn you into a ranting kook.
I am an Infantry Marine from the rural town. I believe that one reason that rural towns have the higher enlistment rates over urban towns is that we are raised to do what you beieve in. I remember growing up and being forced to watch the president on T.V. it has nothing to do with jobs it has to do with how one is raised to believe. Alot also has to do with looking up to your elders. My family and one of my friends from my town who is in with me both have a big family history in the military. Yes there is more money to be had in urban towns. The military attracts some lower class persons with their college money. I know in my unit 6 people from big towns in Kansas and only 3 from little towns. Money is not the issue here it is who is doing what they feel is right. Some go to college, some go to work others join the armed forces.
Uhh… It’s not just whites from small towns who died in high proportions. Of course, you won’t hear this from Ian the Liar Santiago.
Hispanic Texans are dying in Iraq at a rate more than 60 percent higher than the rate for the nation’s military-age population as a whole, according to an Austin American-Statesman review of war fatalities.
In a separate study, a University of California professor has found that during the first six weeks of the war, 16.5 percent of troops killed were Latinos, although Latinos made up only 11.2 percent of the combat troops.
More than 1,470 troops have lost their lives since U.S. forces invaded Iraq.
With the invasion approaching its second anniversary next month, the uneven distribution of fatalities is forcing the military and the nation to confront questions about exactly who dies for their country when the United States goes to war.
The burden in Iraq is not being shared equally. Hispanic Texans and rural Americans, mostly white, have among the highest death rates.
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/metro/stories/02/27wardead.html
Rural people are poorer than urban people.
Poorer people enlist in the military at a higher rate than rich people do.
If you don’t believe it, look at how many kids of Congress critters have ever been in the military and how many of them are in Iraq.
It has nothing to do with rural and urban, white or black, north or south–it has everything to do with rich and poor.
The poor fight and die so the rich can get richer. That’s never been more true than in our current war.