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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Dec. 9, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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141 Comments
The Planned Parenthood-award winning Kansas City Star attacks Kline’s credentials to be JoCo District Attorney:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/opinion/16189580.htm
Does it matter that these same “journalists” fail to mention they received an award from a defendant in the case Attorney General Kline is investigating?
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-articles-press/politics-policy-issues/public-affairs/awards-6224.htm“The Kansas City Star, editorial writingIn 2005, reproductive rights in Kansas were under constant attack — bids to seize confidential medical records, efforts to pass a clinic regulation bill designed to block abortion services, and ongoing legislative efforts to de-fund family planning programs. PPFA honors The Kansas City Star that through it all, championed reproductive justice, family planning, and the right to confidential health care on its editorial pages, providing a welcome antidote to the efforts of anti-choice extremists.”
Or, does it matter that because of their failure to protect child rape victims and viable babies in Kansas what Bill O’Reilly said on Nov 6, 2006 about the KC Star (and the Eagle)?
“There’s no question The Kansas City Star, and the Wichita paper as well, are against any kind of action against Tiller, and it is disgraceful in my opinion. McClatchy, which owns both papers, they are shameful.”
http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/ShameOfKansas/index.htm
I see KSMeadowlurk re-surfaces after the RR’s resounding defeat in November. Heck, even the clown who lost to Brenda Landwehr by fewer than 300 votes is demanding a hand recount.
To your post…………….
The Kansas City Star is “attacking” Kline’s “credentials for JOCO DA because he has NO credentials. Really, being a religious Fanatic doesn’t count. They are right to expose his failures to the citizens of Johnson County who need a real attorney to succeed Paul Morrison.
basically, if anyone speaks out against the religious right or for abortion, Meadowlark is going to find something to make them look shady. Anything at all, even when it is so obviously silly like this.
Where are the charges against Tiller from Kline?
Seems silly to me. Discussing Kline’s political future when we really ought to be locking him up in a padded room for his own good.
I’d like to know when the Wichita Eagle is going to change their format so that trolling is moderated. It is shameful that a newspaper site allows this kind of harrassment.
There are ways to fix this, just ask some other newspaper sites that actually listen to their subscribers.
I agree with political mom above. Trolling is growing on this WE Blog for some reason and obliderates any self imposed standards we voluntarily observe. Trolling will reduce posting and reading on the WE Blog by everyone.
Meadowlark, thanks for keeping the issue of Tiller’s failure to report underage and late term abortions, (thus arguably protecting child abusers and rapists) in the public eye.
Let’s make sure this issue isn’t allowed to die of neglect when Mr. Morrison comes in to office.
It’s been my experience, JWink, that most people don’t mind trolls much unless they’re the ones getting trolled.
I used to complain about it, and I was pretty much told to “shut up.” I even went so far as to troll a few people once that were totally unsympathetic to MY getting trolled so they could enjoy it fully, which did nothing except make people think I was responsible for ALL the trolling, heigh ho.
I don’t do THAT anymore.
Anyway, you’re right though that it is a problem. As long as the editors refuse to moderate the posts and / or require sign-ins, it’s going to keep happening.
For instance, the way the right-wingers comment on the women editors’ pictures is just despicable. That’s not “free speech,” that’s just demeaning to someone doing her job.
The Eagle wouldn’t print that in the paper, so why do they let it stand on their blog?
Outrageous–
And you have evidence that Tiller broke the law how?
Note–people dressed in cockroach costumes do not constitute evidence.
KSMeadowmuffin–
Dang, get some sleep man. No wonder your posts are so incoherant.
I agree on the trolling issue.Throw us a bone here.
Trolling has increased dramatically since the arrival of a poster calling himself “KSGolfnut”. On the last open. I called for a vote of general concensus that that poster is not wanted or welcome. HIS response was to increase his trolling.
It means nothing of course except letting that person know how he is regarded here. But everyone is invited to share their opinion of golfnut. Maybe that would shape him up or run him off.
Good luck with fuzznuts and the other trolls…I’d like to come back home someday.Let me know if something changes,would ya’?
I’m not going anywhere. And my invite for the troller to take this personal stands.
Apophis the clown (you are right on target with that one) you mentioned lost by a little fewer than 400 votes. What he is trying to do is get his name in the press so that he can run for the Senate in a couple of years. It is part of the democrat plan to setup people like him to run for office. His run for the house was the warm up of his run for senate in two years. Heaven help us all should he ever make it.
Folks, TRACY–the real TRACY–already posted the reality on the trolling situation. It’s the McClatchy’s decision–editorial has no control over it, period.
I don’t know if abandoning the blog to the trolls is a good idea—the parent company may not notice the difference. However, if there were repeated, POLITE, COURTEOUS inquiries about the subject, that might product positive results.
The McClatchy Company2100 Q StreetSacramento, CA 95816-6899916-321-1855contact@REMOVE_THISmcclatchy.com
And I’m still trolling but won’t admit it. I even tried starting my own blog site, but it was a misrable failure. It got about 50 hits total, and 45 of those hits were me.Now I troll to get everybody all sympathetic to my cause. Make everybody sign in! Keep out the unwashed masses! After all, without a sign-in, people can just go around saying whatever they want. We sure can’t have that!
Spoken like a true troll.
Any else have an INTELLIGENT comment on the subject?
Pardon me, but of us who are not blinded by positively halluncinatory paranoia might consider the issue on its merits, no matter who is doing the trolling.
Okay, an issue has raised: what would be the effect of registration on free speech on the blog?
It’s a serious one, as registration would tend to inhibit the number of posts (notice, mrage, like me (who is NOT me), had a minor issue with typekey. I didn’t even have the patience for it.
The notion that registration would be a free-for-all against free speech is a nonstarter. In pratical terms, the same editors who can delete our every word would, in theory, have power to revoke a registration. But’s that’s not really reality. I would oppose any approach that let corporate make those decisions. Otherwise, it would fall to Lou, Phillip, Rhonda, Randy, Richard and Dave. People with live email addresses, who have taken responsibility over this dysfunctional family, and have live email addresses (and, ahem, home addresses).
For the record: I would vociferously oppose “banning” anyone–even Ian Santiago, or Horst Wessel. And I am capable of raising a SERIOUS shitstorm, if it came to that. Anyone who is enthusiastic about “banning” ought to consider whether that PC stance is consistent genuine liberalism.
It’s not.
Does the guilty dog really bark loudest?
It doesn’t matter. The means exists, others can exploit it, and it strains the imagination to presume they never have.
And your alternative?
Another “for the record”: Whoever the person is who drove TRACY from the blog–you are beyond dispicable.
Thanks very much, Rage.You have nailed it.Nobody wants to quell free speech.
Registration and banning is only requested in order to stop the trolls who ARE putting constraints on free speech by doing nothing more than harrassment.As far as Ian, Horst and others with distasteful views, Rage nails it again.They can state their opinions here all day long, especially if we know it’s them (whoever they are?), and not some troll.The trolls only purpose is to make others angry and disrupt any meaningful discussion, once again I state there is no violation of rights, but a protection of them by taking measures against the harrassment.Rage, thank you for posting the address of the company responsible for this site.TRACY, (the real me, although there’s no way you can confirm this)HAVE A NICE DAY! HA.
Posters here tend to develop reputations by their. The rep you earn tends to stand for a pretty long while.
I am not for banning anyone. It isn’t practical anyway. No matter what the system, someone determined to be disruptive here is going to be able to do it.
Let their reputation be what polices posters here. Those accused at large of trolling would have two options available. They could work to “clear” their name or they could continue to behave badly. It doesn’t take too long to figure out who is who. Then the offender will have no credibility and thus no positive purpose for posting here. They get reduced to scroll by.
I have said elsewhere who I think is responsible for most of the recent trolling. Those who agree with me should say so. The burden is then on the accused.
Stay and fight TRACY.
oops
“Stay and fight TRACY”
THAT sounds like calling for a campaign AGAINST Tracy!
It should be: Tracy, stay and fight!
Yes, I was being trolled in that last post, but not in the first one. I wouldn’t want the conservative posters to go away, what fun would it be to always agree?
I have belonged to message boards that have moderation, it works. You can still protect your privacy. You can still say almost anything you want.
I have a better idea: stay and ignore them.
It’s the been the rule on USENET for nearly three decades: Don’t feed the trolls. Regard it as line noise. Maybe we need as an opening post on every thread.
I noticed the Capn had moderated his view a bit, and it works for me: The editors can delete anything upon request, at their discretion. I would suggest using that power with restraint, though.
Why were our last posts removed pmom?For the record mods, I have not trolled anyone. Not my style.But I’m sure they must be able to track back with url’s no?
Uh, is it my imagination or was the post by my troll just disappear?
Horray, maybe they know who the troll is afterall, and they’re removing them?
Kline is bogus and still pushing his OWN personal agenda on taxpayer money. Send him on his wayto Iraq to stop the blood bath.
Yes, my child, they were swallowed up by the darkside of the force.
“Rage, thank you for posting the address of the company responsible for this site.”
Uhmmm. . .hmmm. That got me to thinking. McClatchy may own the newspaper, but they neccesarily own the site. . yet.
Food for thought:
Registrant:Knight Ridder DigitalHQ Hostmaster35 South Market Street .San Jose, CA 95113USEmail: hqhostmaster@knightridder.com
Registrar Name….: REGISTER.COM, INC.Registrar Whois…: whois.register.comRegistrar Homepage: http://www.register.com
Domain Name: kansas.com
Created on…………..: Tue, Mar 28, 1995Expires on…………..: Thu, Mar 29, 2007Record last updated on..: Tue, Nov 29, 2005
Administrative Contact:Knight Ridder DigitalHQ Hostmaster35 South Market Street .San Jose, CA 95113USPhone: 001-408-9386000Email: hqhostmaster@knightridder.com
Technical Contact:register.com, inc.Domain Registrar575 8th Avenue .New York, NY 10018USPhone: 001-212-7989100Email: internic-free@register.com
DNS Servers:
pdns1.ultradns.netpdns5.ultradns.infopdns4.ultradns.orgpdns6.ultradns.co.ukpdns2.ultradns.netpdns3.ultradns.org
I agree, KIA, that’s not your style. Sigh. . .
Folks, before we go nuts reining in the irresponsible idiots, we might the underlying concern behind (TrueBlue)’s personal vendetta. We could easily turn this into a censor-for-all.
Editors, I hope you’re paying attention.
P.S. Folks, the admin contact at KnightRidder is a TECHNICAL contact. An adminstrator of the servers. DON’T bother them with this crap. THANK YOU.
They could do it by IP address.
Then they’d know exactly who the trolls are.
But isn’t that what you libs want?
And you think this would be an interesting blog without Coms?
Man, the signal is getting weak. My instruments are reading “NaN”—Not A Number.
Can anyone hear what I’m saying over the noise?
Pmom, did one of your posts just dissapear?
An obvious troll-post under pmom’s approach disppeared. Of bigger concern to me is KIA’s post.
Ease up on that trigger, folks.
Approach? Crap. How about nic?
TRACE ain’t a troll…I guaranteeeeeee!
Meaning what, Bob? Just asking.
Rage, you want opinions on trolls?
Here’s mine:Trolls are nothing but juveniles, no matter what their age. They crave attention, much like 2-year-olds. They’re also cowards, ready to make juvenile attacks, yet not brave enough to admit it.
Golfnuts does indeed appear to be PMom’s troller. Appearances can be deceiving, but…
SOB has pitiful grammar, so if it’s Golf, he’s purposely sounding dumber than dumb.
Whoever it is, whether one or more (Dumb and Dumber?), grow up.
Simply meaning, if anybody thinks it is Trace that is trolling, they’re wrong! I know him, and he’s not whatever idiot is fucking with our conversations. Nothing more.
Okay. Thanks.
Seriously guys, I’m ready to leave this board over it. The salina journal board monitors their discussions and this kind of stuff does not happen there. I want real discussions not this stupid crap. I left the kansas.com forum over the same stuff.
I’m for the ignore it and hopefully it will go away school.I’d hate to see you leave pmom
That’s my personal take, but, as far as I know, no one’s posted under my nic. I’ve even taunted them, and they’ve declined.
Maybe there’s a lesson in that. Maybe not.
I’ve been to the salina blog. It’s like a graveyard.
political mom
The Salina blog also has almost no posters.
I would not want anything like what they have!I wouldn’t want to type a well though out post if I had to gamble if some monitor somewhere might keep it from ever being seen.
I know you have been particularly victimized by trolls. Strangely enough? I never was until I started sticking up for you. So it’s likely the same source. As you know, that person now has my full attention.
Give it time. Trolls have a way of blowing themselves up in the long run. The one bugging you is well on its way to being just a boring distraction. You saw how quick Kia caught the troll earlier.
Hey I’ve had folks on this forum using their real names post the most vile crap about me. Things have a way of righting themselves.
It will pick up. The new message board is only a few weeks old. Everyone can post their own topics too. So far J R, nobody has been deleted. There is no risk of legitimate posting to be removed.
As far as the trolls leaving, nope, aint going to happen. I went over to the Kansas.com forum the other day and they’re still at it with the regulars over there too.Seems the trolls just followed me here.
Fair warning, if you follow me to the Salina board, I actually know the moderator there. And they have an agreement with their server to get the IP addresses of their problem posters.
The solution: sign on with a valid email and either a name or a pseudonym. They email you an initial password to your email address. You can change the password when you receice it. If the login is abused it can be canceled.
You go girl
Ben that is a good idea. I would add that they could even go a step further and require a server initiated email.
? Not sure what you mean by server initiated email.
Definitely a good idea just to have a valid email with a password set up.I belong to a handful of message boards that you have to do that on. And these are just social, not even political in nature.
JR:
We disagree a lot, but we’re (generally) civil. I’ve never trolled, never will. I’ve never changed nics, nor hid my statements under a different nic. I’m with you on trolling; it’s despicable. It is a pain to have to deny what others write in your name. Generally, we ought to ignore them. Scroll-by, as you say. Reputation does matter, though yours isn’t as highly regarded like to think it is. You “melt down” too easily.
On to this subject. You wrote:
“I have said elsewhere who I think is responsible for most of the recent trolling. Those who agree with me should say so. The burden is then on the accused.”
I disagree. Just how does one prove a negative? You’ve called out those who you believe are the trolls – it’s YOUR burden. You made the accusation; prove it. This is not the first time you’ve made accusations against others on this board but been unwilling to back up your accusations in full view of all.
YOUR burden, JR. Your accusation, your burden.
Sorry, JR, have to go with GMC on that one.
I suspect that was an oopsy. I think you know better.
Ben, meaning it comes from your service provider…like cox.net instead of yahoo.com.
Like Ebay, you can’t use a program like yahoo or hotmail to log in with. You have to actually have the email address from your provider.
Thanks. I’m not a big computer geek, even though I did help “invent the internet” ;^)
I didn’t know ebay had the set up.Interesting.
OMG, Ben and Algore!! Where the hell is the Enquirer when we really need them/ Ben, check your shrubs ! Phredd Phelps ( or his fat-ass dughter, Marge) may be lurking there. No, Ben, just look for Phredd. I doubt you have shrubs that large. :)
PMom: I am way too computer illiterate to know what the solution is to the trolling, but whatever ideas those of you have to solve the problem, I’m behind you 1000%. It really sucks. Just be sure to tell us computer morons, in detail, what you want us to do!!
rm6046,
You don’t want the Enquirer. You want the AP, Lou Dobbs, Judy Woodruff, Chris Matthews, Newsday, and all those other “liberal” MSM types.
Cosmos: Ha! I was just ribbing Ben. Hey, I see that Kleypas is coming back for a resentencing for killing that young girl in Pittsburg ten or eleven years ago. Let’s organize our “fun-fest” here and see how soon we can get this bastard done. As far as I’m concerned, lethal injection is way too fucking good for the bastard, but we have to live with that. We don’t have to live with supporting him for another 20 years!! Let’s do something together that will get somebody’s attention!!
Hi rm – I chuckled with you above. I had used the old ARPANet back in the 70s; I brought the entire network down several times one night. They were NOT happy; we got a panic call from Stanford wanting to know what the Hell we were doing. The ‘Net has come a long way.
As for Kleypas – I have a rope … and a tree …
Hey Ben — Had no doubt you would understand. Considering the rope and the tree — works perfectly for me, buddy !
Rage, JR, P_Mom, Tracy and others–Good comments all. But I have to respectively disagree that log-ins would stifle discussion.
Once you set up a type key account, all you have to do is hit the hot link “sign in” at the top of the text box you type your message in, enter your nic and your password.
You can still say whatever you want to–you just can’t seem to make somebody ELSE say what you want them to.
P_Mom is exactly right when she brings up the URL’s. For instance the troll who is trying to irritate me by using one of my old nics could be instantly exposed simply by the webmaster looking at the server’s URL where he logs in at.
Granted, someone could go to a public venue (library, internet cafe) and log on with the host’s system and end up with different server addresses, but this is not likely given the reality of how most people post.
The two most thriving discussion boards I’m aware of are FreeRepublic (right-wing) and DemocraticUnderground (left-wing). Both of them are heavily moderated and both of them “tombstone” or ban people who come on to disrupt.
I’m not too familiar with the FReeper site, but DemUnderground has 100’s of thousands of registered users.
Not exactly stifling discussion, apparently.
Lastly, the idea that people shouldn’t be banned or their posts pulled is just silly, IMHO. The Eagle routinely tosses letters they receive in the wastebasket without even a “thank you for your interest.”
I know because I’ve sent plenty of letters in that haven’t seen the light of day.
Why should they tolerate hate speech, disruptive speech, demeaning speech on their website when they won’t even print reasonable articles in their paper?
They OWN this space. Just like they own the editorial page. To say that they should have “no rights” or responsibilities to control what goes on here is ludicrious.
respectfully not respectively, an edit feature would also be nice . . .
One thing about having somewhat secure ids – we tend to get to know each other. For example, from time to time I would expect some “bs” from rm – in this case in responseto my own! (”inventing the internet”). So, of course it was just good-natured ribbing – nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is a good thing – we humanize each other.
We will resume fighting when the subject arises; however having done this makes it more civil in my opinion.
I just realized – maybe instead of “inventing” the internet I almose prevented it!
;^)
You’re still part of the problem, GoofNut.
Commenting on editor’s pictures and ridiculing them . . . It was boorish behavior in the 50’s before the term “sexism” had even been thought of.
I got an idea, why don’t you post a video of your wife and we can all make fun of how she looks . . .
Capn: I know this is naive, but if I have an idea that may be good or bad, who knows, until it is expressed, I want the attribution. I will fade the heat if it sucks … and take the credit if it’s good. The god damned trolls don’t get either. Why do they bother to annoy us?
Ben: We’re certainly on the same page. Thanks !
What does MILF stand for?
Ben: MILF = Mothers I’d Like to Fuck.Kansas GolfNut = Someone Who Needs To Go Fuck Himself! Sorry to be so crude, but that’s what it comes down to !
Thanks rm … on both counts.
hahaha
I wonder what Rhonda Holman, her family, and friends think about golfnut’s “compliment”?
Republican “family values”?
Hehe, congrats, rm, you’re in! Bet you didn’t know you were a liberal, did you?
Gee, golfnut! What a maroon!
I thought that was rather funny too rage. Gee, rm, how many times have we locked horns?
I think about people like Hank Price and his son Nathan. Hardly ‘liberal’; we disagree a hell of a lot. But these guys are real and they are men of honor. I can deal with that; I will continue to argue (from the Latin ‘to make clear’) with them and to make friendly bets. Who knows, maybe next time I will have to be the one to contribute to Catholic Charities Gerard House. NOT!
;^)
Gotcha hank!
GMC says I melt down?
Yeah.
That’s like a skunk telling a squirrel he smells bad.
GMC your melt downs around here are the stuff of legend! What was it you used to call this forum? “A liberal circle jerk” wasn’t it? Counsel thyself counselor!
I said Golfnuts is responsible for a lot of the trolling. I’d call that a current majority opinion. If you doubt it check out the last open thread. I had never been trolled. That is until golfnuts started posting here and I called him on his vendetta against political mom.
Nope Rage no “oopsy”. I’ll say it again. The arrival of golfnuts brought out the trolls.
“This is not the first time you’ve made accusations against others on this board but been unwilling to back up your accusations in full view of all.”
You mean when I called Paul Rosell a shill? I wasn’t alone in that one either. Funny isn’t it how Paul up and diappeared right after the election.
Hey like I posted earlier, I’ve been libeled by people here using their own real names. This forum is what it is. Clamp the restrictions on it and watch the posters disappear.
“Nope Rage no “oopsy”. I’ll say it again. The arrival of golfnuts brought out the trolls.”
No argument with that. I think it’s quite possible. I just don’t think it’s up to that jackass to prove he ISN’T trolling (how exactly does someone do that?).
On the kansas.com board PMom was stalked by GolfNut. He posted in response to every post she made, ridiculed her, taunted her, added nothing but was always there to make stupid remarks. If you will notice he is doing the same thing here. He posts on threads she posts and always is in an attack mode. Yes, she retaliates instead of ignoring such childish activity. I watched it happen on the other board and its happening here. It isn’t just that he has a different opinion; it’s that he is attacking in a childish stalking manner. He doesn’t post his opinion and state why he differs from another poster the way adults with differing opinions do, he attacks PMom’s posts and brings in personal things that simply don’t belong and add nothing. And this troll activity did coincide with his appearance on the board. I agree totally with JR that he is responsible — I watched it happen on the kansas.com board and sadly see it happening again here.
Recently I asked him to discuss as an adult. He responded that he and I had talked before — WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE NOT! He tried to draw me into his ugliness on the kansas.com board and I simply ignored him and wouldn’t be drawn in. But please believe this is the exact pattern of before and he is the responsible person.
Well of course no one can PROVE they are not trolling nics. But they CAN denounce the trollers and ask that they stop. I’ve done that for lots of posters I don’t normally agree with when they were trolled.
. . .and we can also denounce those who are out-of-control, like Golfnut and “SOB.” Subjective, yes, but notice how a consensus developed pretty damn quickly.
Linda, thanks for stating that. There are a few on this forum that were on the other one, writerdog is one.
And I wish you’d post here more often, I always valued your opinion, and enjoyed your contributions.
Trouble in blogging paradise.
You know who never posts anymore,Ian Santiago. Whatever happened to him, hmmmmm I wonder…
Perhaps I should find another blog that needs crusading. This one is getting old.
Ta ta!
Crusader X: Ian Sntiago — who the fuck cares, as long as he’s gone!!!!
Hi all,I’ve been lurking the last couple of days and I’m troubled by all the trolling. It risks making this blog irrelevant. Though I hate changing positions, it looks like it might be time for the editors to assume some control over who posts and who doesn’t. I see a freedom of speech issue because typepad is kind of a pain to get signed up with, but considering what I’m seeing here, there may not be a lot of viable choices. It’s a shame when you see good posters like P-mom and Tracy considering leaving the board because of unprincipaled hooligans.
A word of advice: Don’t back down from trolls. If you let them have their way, they win. We can’t have that. There have always been trolls on this blog to one degree or another and we’ve always managed to marginalize them or drive them away. Now is not the time to give up. Keep in mind, the serious bloggers on this page have the advantage…they have something to say, something to contribute to the dialog. Trolls are just rattle-brained morons who are here just to cause disruption. A troll’s timeline is limited because it has nothing to say. They eventually get tired and go away. The trick is to condemn them and outlast them.
While I’ve always been against tighter control of this blog, I have to say enough is enough. Freedom of speech is one of our most important rights but like all freedoms, there’s a limit. As my Dad always said, your rights end where my nose begins. You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded movie house. You can’t make jokes about bombs on planes.
Don’t feed the trolls. They thrive on that since their sole purpose is to aggrevate. Most of the regulars here are identifiable by their style. Posts by trolls are usually so different from the style of the poster they’re targeting as to be beyond obvious.
You need to absolutely ignore the trolls no matter how egregous they get. If you ignore them and don’t respond in anger, they’ll lose interest and go away. Considering a troll’s intellect, they get bored easily. Remember, they’re only here to trigger a response from you.
You win by not giving them what they want.
Regards,XXX
Bush gutted our clean air act so this is the much lower standard at which Sunflower coal fired is constructing it’s plants:
http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28961
This is part of the reason the big push is on for they are in fear that the new democrat controlled congress will reinstatethe higher standards. Yes it will require more revenue however Kansas communities DO NOT NEED toxic drift transported by the prevailing winds.
Another reason for the big push is congress enacted a pollution tax arrangment that becomes effective very soon and is passed on to the consumer. If a permit is granted after the new arrangement Sunflower can no longer pass this poison tax on to the consumers.
Colorado rate payers are also opposing this pollution factory not only on environmental grounds but also economic grounds as it will increase their rates so they recently discovered.
Yes the truth hides behind the hidden facts.
According to what I was told Saturday night Wind Power could supply the whole nation. Wind turbines set up in North Dakota,South Dakota,Kansas and Texas could supply the nation. The farmers are ready for the revenue. Politicians and some energy producers are the obstacle akaspecial interest financing of campaigns. Farmers in western Kansas are ready however are faced with the same obstacles at the state level.
Saturday night revealed that the tall grass prairies are not necessary because there are enough other western Kansas farmers ready to roll which likely could provide energy for the entire state. At the same time it was implied this energy revenue would save some family farms.
Richard Heckler: I agree with you 100%. Plus I now believe the many ethanol plants being planned for Kansas could potentially drain our underground water aquifers and threaten our drinking water sources.
Regarding wind farms, there are areas in Kansas such as the sand hills northwest of Pratt all the way to the Arkansas River that is very sparsely settled. I believe hundreds of wind turbines could be installed up there and be nothing but beneficial to that area.
It is my understanding that it is important to site wind farms near transmission lines because of their expense of building. Haven’t seen a map of these lines.
I formerly assumed wind farms could not generate enough power to make a difference. But I have recently examined this and have changed my mind. Wish we had an expert on this subject on this WE Blog.
However, its going to be difficult to impede construction of the coal fired power plants out by Holcomb/Garden City. A powerful lobby of beneficiaries will be promoting these plants.
Of course, as usual, politicians will not say a word … see no evil, hear no evil…get elected again.
Congratulations Ben Huie: I thought a new “Open Thread” would be on the blog this morning so I could congratulate you at the beginning of a thread rather than at the end of this one.
Anyway, early this AM, I read your article on the EAGLE’s editorial page, “Climate change is not a fad” and clipped the article to read again later today.
We need a lot more discussion of these kinds of environmental threats to our way of life.
Thanks jw. I do with they had included my “PhD LG” since they are relevant. Also the links I included http://www.wunderground.com/education/education.asp and http://www.realclimate.org/
Yes, very good editorial, gave no quarter to the conservative talking point supporters. Guess, next time you’ll have to include in your article your credentials.
Hey good show Ben!
Now I have a reason to go buy the paper today.
XXX speaks wisely on the trolls. I mostly fight them. But I guess a good helping of ignore doesn’t hurt either. I’ll TRY: )
Embarrassed to have to ask, but, what is trolling?
Another fun thing in todays paper is the whiney GOP complaining about Raj Goyle thrashing Bonnie Huy.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/politics/16205560.htm
Even though their own pool-worker said nothing bad happened:
“Susan Bannon, a Republican who served as polling judge at the location where the violations were alleged, said she saw no illegal activity by Goyle or any of his supporters on Nov. 7.
Bannon, the poll judge, said she did not observe any improper behavior by Goyle or his supporters, although she was in and around the polling station throughout the day.
She said at one point, a Republican party operative loudly complained to her that Goyle supporters were inside the 250-foot limit, so she went outside with the man to check.
The only Goyle supporter visible was well outside the limit, she said.
Bannon said Goyle came to the polling place three times during the day.
She said he had proper credentials as a poll watcher and “all he was doing was checking with his observers.”
“I didn’t see him talk to any voters — and I was watching him,” she said.
Observers, both Republican and Democrat, sat behind poll workers and wrote down people’s names as they signed in to vote, Bannon said.
State law allows that, she said.
However, one man in line objected to their presence and began shouting that it was like Nazi Germany, Bannon said. Others joined him and Bannon said at that point, she called police to maintain order.
The man voted and left before police arrived, she said.”
I wonder if the disruptor was Paul F Rossell?
Lanna – a major part would be to ’sign in’ as you and post garbage.
Oh for Pete sakes. Thanks Ben, I’m a newbie and this is a bit intimidating as it is.
Can we edit after our post? Correct or take back something regretable? Like that swing at Paul, if you found it regretable and lacking civility in public discourse?
Ben: My money says you’re right!
Nope, cannot edit. As for my ’swing’ at Paul – it stands. Paul had complained bitterly about the Goyle victory and had cried foul – even though his own poll worker said there were no irregularities. (You would have to have been here)
One thing we do have to watch out for is I might mahe a sort of ‘BS’ swipe at Hank or RM and forget to put in the ;^) that shows it is intended as fun. We (rm and I) had some last night that we knew was jest but perhaps someone else might not. We were having fun with my ‘attempt’ to save the world from the internet.
Greetings, all. I see that former Chilean Dictator Augusto Pinochet has died of natural causes at the age of 91.
When it comes to a murderer and fascist such as Pinochet, one has little choice but to speak ill of the dead.
And, of course, the CIA is heavily implicated in his overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Salvador Allende.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm
So, on the day when Augusto Pinochet escapes the possibility of human judgement and becomes eligible for divine justice, I would hope that everyone on the WeBlog reflects well on the United States’ demonstrated willingness to contribute to the formation of brutal and repressive political monsters.
We helped to create Pinochet. The blood of Chileans who were tortured, murdered, and disappeared under Pinochet stains our hands.
KSGolfnut is my hero.
TRACY, go wipe your Dad’s ass.
Fleettwood makes me laugh.
JR has a sharp stick that doesn’t get used.
Ben bores me.
The rest of you are akin to reading the comics.
The thought that what any of you say here will make any difference is a joke.
Now, let the flaming responses flow. You cannot help yourself.
Good riddance to Pinochet. His installation as dictator by the CIA tarnished our image as sponsors of democracy.
I wonder if Ben is MILFy?
Ben,
Excellent editorial — it logically stomped on the 3 previous ones.
Also, IIRC, increased CO2 may cause more growth in some weeds, and poison ivy. Not a very desireable result (blah).
It’s just too damned bad he lived as long as he did…breathing oxygen that somebody else might have been able to use. And even worse that it wasn’t at the end of a rope. And Ben, if you forget the :), don’t worry. I know there is neither malice nor arrogance expressed or implied. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you.
(Self) Mockery,
That was deep. Think much?
Well, I wouldn’t go that far. He did some good things after all.
Shut your cornhole CF.
For example, Ben? Just a question? He probably did, but nothing comes to mind.
(Self) Mockery,
Got ‘cornhole’ on the brain, eh? Must be all the gay porn you’re watching in your parents’ basement while eating Cheetos and masturbating.
On stopping Holcomb, and other new coal-fired power plants: the FINANCIAL RISKS to utility customers and/or shareholders are good arguments.
* Federal CO2 regulations are likely in a few years — customers and/or shareholders may have to pay huge $’s in pollution costs.
* Higher energy efficiency and distributed generation are cheaper than coal. I think coal plants are most profitable running near 100% capacity. If efficiency, DG, (and fuel cells, etc?) cut demand on coal plants, they’re less profitable.
* I assume long-term loans finance building the coal plants. The climate crisis may force shutdown of plants before loans are paid off. Default, or charge “customers” for energy not delivered?
Don’t feed the trolls…
Well, I believe the most notable accomplish is the Food act of 56 which states that “all trolls must be allows to have all the cheetos as needed”
That Ben Huie: always making silk purses out of sow’s ears.
Cosmos: The “brains” wrote off coal years ago. Ditto, nuclear, as a “damned expensive way to boil water”. Why is this back? They were bad ideas then, and they’re bad ideas now. Is it just because it’s fashionable to kick oil in the balls every chance they get nowadays? We have more than enough oil right here in the United States that we don’t have to be dependent on anybody. And the more tax incentives that become available, the more exploration we will have. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
Coal is much more polluting than fossil fuel, and, recalling an old joke from the Chernobyl days … the bad news was that most of livestock died. The good news was the ones that survived could be found in the dark of night.
Interesting article here. It doesn’t do much to help my position that climate change is largely due to mankind’s activities though. Perhaps I should have read this report by the UN before submitting my letter to the Eagle.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/10/nclimate10.xml
I’ve performed some recent research for using coal as the nuclear fuel instead of Uranium 235. The results were quite disappointing I’m sorry to say.
You all hear that, Wingnuts and trolls? What Ben Huie just said? It’s called “intellectual honesty.”
Thanks CF, I appreciate that.
But please, let’s dispense of the name-calling shall we. That only weekens us and our positions further. I’m sure you’ll agree and understand.
Speaking of trolls – all of these were not me …
“Well, I believe the most notable accomplish is the Food act of 56 which states that “all trolls must be allows to have all the cheetos as needed”
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 03:40 PM
Interesting article here. It doesn’t do much to help my position that climate change is largely due to mankind’s activities though. Perhaps I should have read this report by the UN before submitting my letter to the Eagle.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/10/nclimate10.xml
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 03:48 PM
I’ve performed some recent research for using coal as the nuclear fuel instead of Uranium 235. The results were quite disappointing I’m sorry to say.
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 03:53 PM
Thanks CF, I appreciate that.
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 03:59 PM
But please, let’s dispense of the name-calling shall we. That only weekens us and our positions further. I’m sure you’ll agree and understand.
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 04:04 PM
From the trolls article …
“The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says there can be little doubt that humans are responsible for warming the planet, but the organisation has reduced its overall estimate of this effect by 25 per cent.
In a final draft of its fourth assessment report, to be published in February, the panel reports that the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has accelerated in the past five years. It also predicts that temperatures will rise by up to 4.5 C during the next 100 years, bringing more frequent heat waves and storms.
advertisementThe panel, however, has lowered predictions of how much sea levels will rise in comparison with its last report in 2001.
Climate change sceptics are expected to seize on the revised figures as evidence that action to combat global warming is less urgent.
Scientists insist that the lower estimates for sea levels and the human impact on global warming are simply a refinement due to better data on how climate works rather than a reduction in the risk posed by global warming.
One leading UK climate scientist, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity surrounding the report before it is published, said: “The bottom line is that the climate is still warming while our greenhouse gas emissions have accelerated, so we are storing up problems for ourselves in the future.”
My letter to the Eagle stands.
rm – this was troll too:
Well, I wouldn’t go that far. He did some good things after all.
Posted by: Ben Huie | December 10, 2006 at 03:21 PM
JR
I have no intention of reciting (again) your bouts of hysteria. We know already. And you’re probably already stocking up for that “civil war” you proclaimed was coming!!!
I once refered to this board as a “liberal circle jerk.” True enough. And in many ways, it’s still true. The board is dominated by self-described liberals who attach pejorative labels to any point of view they disagree with, and shout it down with volume and invective. Certainly, you’re generally not one of the worst offenders in that regard. And I won’t play the name-calling game. But the description is still apt.
The last still holds. You made the accusation – prove it. What “concensus” believes is worth exactly zero. Whether you believe you were right in the past is irrelevent. You carry the burden.
Are you willing to cite, specifically, the evidence in support of your position? Until you are, your statement is nothing more than an unsubstantiated charge, at best. Charges are easy to level – evidence in support is another matter.
Put up, JR, if you can. Or pipe down.
Lots of trolls, and MeadowMuffin is still spamming his/her blog in the Open Thread. We should report that too, if we’re complaining.
And as I think about it, JR, I should thank you. You’ve posted that my past writings are “the stuff of legend.”
I never realized I was a legend – at least in any place other than my own mind. I thank you for the compliment.
I really don’t think I’m that important. I am coming to appreciate that you do, however, and I will attempt to make my writing live up to your expectations.
Thanks again. ;-}
Butif what the newspaper article stated was true, the polling judge at the actual polling place stated that the Goyle people DID NOT do anything illegal. So why are Republicans whining? After all, if it was good enough for the Democrats in 2000 to just ’shut up and live with it’ then it is good enough for Republicans in 2006 to ’shut up and live with it’.
I heard on the Fox News Channel tonight that Terry Fox has found an anonymous donor that will match funds up to a million dollars for him to build his new church.
I guess P.T.Barnum was right – there is a sucker born every minute.
GMC?
“I have no intention of reciting (again) your bouts of hysteria. We know already.”
Who is “we”? Got a mouse in your pocket?
“I once referred to this board as a liberal circle jerk”
Uh no it was alot more than once!
GMC do you realize who you are defending here? My attack was against golfnuts not you. Last I checked, no one owed him any favors. Hey I don’t need to find any evidence against a creep who attacks a mother with an autisitic kid.
Did you check the last open as I suggested? I submitted evidence counselor. It is not my fault if you do not examine it.
You TRIED to call my bluff in defence of Paul Rosell. How’s that one working out for ya?
And as to you being a “legend”? Yeah you are. NO ONE has bitched more about this forum, posted that they will never ever return, and then come on back to do so as you.Hell here lately I seem to be your only reason for posting here. The pressures of fame.
“NO ONE has bitched more about this forum, posted that they will never ever return, and then come on back to do so as you.”
Heh, I think he’s got you there, GMC, thought, to be fair, most of the bitching was about JR. . . :)
Let it go.
What makes ya’ll think the trolls aren’t somebody that you consider men of honor?And Ian said he won’t be back until the 13th. He always says he’s a man of honor.
JR
It was once. And the description is still quite apt.
And I think I’ve posted that I would never return ONCE, thought better of it, and been back since. Get over it.
And for the umpteenth time, it’s not about who’s being defended, whether Paul Rosell, GolfNuts, etc. It’s about your making accusations and not supporting same. I don’t keep a tally of who’s on who’s “side.” You obviously do.
I’ve checked, again, the previous open thread, as you suggested. I found nothing there that would remotely qualify as evidence. Your hunch is hardly evidence.
As to Paul Rosell, you desire was to make your claimed evidence “secret squirrel” and private. I won’t play that game; make it public or not at all. You’re the self-appointed “credibility” monitor: how ’bout providing some credibility as to your accusations.
I do appreciate the legend status, however. Thanks again.
GMC
I don’t hit every thread all the time. But my recent memory has your last half dozen or so posts on ANY manner of topics ALL directed basically TO ……..me.
Hey if it’s love? I’m flattered…..in a queasy sorta way: )~
Get over me. Then get over yourself.