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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Dec. 31, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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47 Comments
Yesterday I went to the 13th street Warren theater and having some time to kill went into the game room.I found a set of keys and a few dollar bills in one of the games. I went to the concession stand and turned them in. The attendants seem shocked and one even commented about how honest I was!
Later my wife was at the concession stand when a woman came up and asked if someone had turned in some keys? My wife said that the attendants seem puzzled and said that not that they were aware of. But one spoke up and said “Yes you do I was right here when a customer turned them in… And some money too!”. And he went to get them, he returned with the keys and the dollar bills.
Lately I have noticed people being shocked at acts of honest? Has honest become outdated? Is it so rare of late that some are just not use to it?
I once found forty dollars laying on the sales floor and put it into an envelope and put it in the lost and found. Only to discover that once the store learned of the find, they put in in the store general fund! I could have used the money at the time and if it happens again I will hold on to it.I turned in a bike I had found to the local Police, I told them if no one claimed it my daughter could sure use a bike. After a couple of week I called to see if anyone had claimed the bike? Only to be told that it was city policy that any found items if not claimed became the property of the city and would be sold at the city property sale. Not very honest in either count, at least my conscience was clear! perhaps not only is honesty in short supply but also having a conscience?
These days?
I’d have probably kept the cash and left the keys. Or maybe turn in just the keys.
As you note writer, honesty is just not appreciated anymore.
Some years ago, my Dad found a bag with more than $900 in it in a cart at Dillons. It turns out it was the receits from a local bar that an employee was supposed to deposit in the bank.
They gave my Dad no reward at all! They didn’t even offer him a sandwich.
Finders keepers may be the best policy.
No, the best policy is to turn the money in and do what is right. Just because the next person is selfserving and dishonest does not make it right for me to do something selfserving and dishonest.
Rusty..
Totally AGREE!
Besides, it’s fun to shock people by being honest!!
It just shows how our society views honesty today. And, really, are we surprised? Look at our political leaders, church leaders, CEO’s of large corporations and the celebrities people worship. When is honesty really seen in today’s society?
today it is about pursuit of the almighty dollar and the view is about me-me-me. Look at the shareholders of corporations. They don’t care if thousands of people lose their jobs, just so they can make that extra dime of profit on their stocks. People don’t care about the fraud and waste of Halliburton contracts in the Iraq War if it means that extra dime in their stock portfolio.
Is that extra dime of profit really going to mean the difference in your life as opposed to the ripple effects of the way you had to make it?
I left my wallet, with two sizable checks, cash, and all my credit cards in a shopping cart in the parking lot at Walmart. When I got home and realized that I’d left my wallet, I called the store. Turns out a nice man turned it in, with everything intact, to the lost and found. I was so appreciative and amazed, I just couldn’t thank him enough. What a nightmare it would have been for me if he choose to keep it all.Sometimes you just do what’s right for the sake of doing what’s right, JR. If you only do something kind in order to feel appreciated, then you’re doing it for the wrong reason. You should just do what’s right and treat others the way you’d want to be treated. You’ll feel better about yourself.
Mary,I had an almost identical experience a little over a week ago. The store called me early next morning, before I’d even missed it.
I still believe the majority of people are good, decent and honest. It is only the minority that have the loudest voices that also seem to scream at every turn and get their names and pictures in the news.
I believe in whatever you do, it will come back to you ten-fold. You still have to live with yourself at the end of the day.
Hey I’ve turned in purses and wallets on MANY occasions without keeping anything.
I can only trust that the store or movie theatre employees carried the right thing forward.
But just cash? Found with no ID? No way to tell who it belonged to? I’d keep it.
I’d have kept the money bag my Dad found had I been the one to find it. It was from a business.
JR sometimes I think you say things just to get a response so I will bite and tell you that it might have belonged to a BUSINESS but the person who lost it was an employee of that business and the same chintzy owner that didn’t give your dad a reward probably would have fired that employee. By the way why do you have such a deepseeded hatred for businesses? I haven’t figured that our.
But if that employee was careless enougt to lose the money bag in the first place, then perhaps that employee should be fired or at least not trusted to take the money bag to the bank.
As for returning it, I would have returned the money also. Surely there was some sort of identifying paper in the money bag to determine who it belonged to.
But I’m with JR – if there is no identification and it’s just cash – I say it’s found money.
If you are an honest person you do what is right without expecting a reward. Why should a person be rewarded for being honest? I’ve gotten too much money at the bank a couple of times and returned the money. I realized that someone might lose their job and I could never live with myself if I caused that to happen.
Getting too much change back is one thing you can control. You know what happened and you know where the money came from. Of course you would give the money back. I taught my kids that honesty is the best policy and for the most part that is true. Part of that honesty is trying to determine who the money belongs to and if you can, then return it. If not and you have tried to determine the owner, then I see no reason not to keep it.
Quote of the Day:
“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?”
- Joseph Stalin
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ian,We will always let you have ideas no matter how crazy they are. Promise!!!
….And then there is Santiago, who single-handedly disproves the theory that man is born inherently good.
Happy New Year to you too, buddy.
Not to change the subject here, but I would like to know why President George W. Bush could not have been in Washington DC when the body of Gerald Ford arrived for the state funeral?
I am not trying to Bush-bash here but I am really troubled by the lack of respect shown by George W. in this time of national mourning for Ford. Was his vacation at the Texas ranch that important to not forego and do what was right?
Just to point out, the death toll of US soldiers reached 3,000 today.
sunny,
Don’t know why Bush couldn’t be there. Having been assigned to security during Presidential Visits when I was in the military, I can tell you it’s a real dog and poney show.
You sit and wait for many hours, making sure every nook and cranny, reptile, gentile and profile is eyeballed and verified. Then you sit again and wait. Suddenly, with little warning you get a squawk on your ‘brick’ and look around for the motorcade only to find out it’s at a different part of the base that you were told.
Then later you find out that the Presidenet wasn’t actually in the motorcade and it was a ruse or you find out the President was in a disquised motorcade.
Sometimes they just fly over and don’t even stop because of local conditions, whatever that means.
Perhaps Bush was privately meeting with some Ford representatives or practicing a speech or talking with Leaders in Iraq or getting some Intel briefing on concerns of the way the sites were handled.
It’s hard to say what happens when Presidents travel, because when reporters report they are not there, it may be because they were already there and have left without anyone noticing. Or the reporters were given the wrong location on purpose for whatever reason.
The Secret Service is very good at what it does and trying to guess the location of the POTUS is just pure guesswork.
Well Ford did say Iraq was a bad idea, maybe that’s why.
StillJM–
If Bush ate a live puppy, you’d say it had been recruited by Al Qaeda and it had to be eaten to protect the country.
Bush blowing off the Ford family and the rest of our country is typical of the boorish behavior we’ve come to expect from the
Worst.President.Ever.
P_Mom–
Thanks for reminding the war mongers of just what they’ve wroght.
3,000 dead before the end of 2006 . . . we’re on track to lose the same number that the Russians lost in Afghanistan if we stay as long as they did.
CapnAmerica
How childish.
I was giving a few scenarios of why Presidents aren’t easily tracked.
Bush may have had a private viewing and didn’t want to interrupt Public Access with a large contingent of Secret Service.
You ever going to act like a mature adult or do you really enjoy hate mongering?
JM–
Thanks for your fantasies, but the fact is that Bush wasn’t there.
While we’re ginning up “scenarios,” maybe the Ford family didn’t want Worst. President. Ever. stinking up the place.
Or possibly Bush didn’t want to remind people of the president that almost got impeached and pardoned, given that he has earned impeachment far more than Nixon ever did.
When are you going to act like a “mature adult” and patriotic American and quit making excuses for the Worst. President. Ever?
I get a lot of open-mouthed, surprised looks. If I’m undercharged or not charged for an item, I point it out. If I’m given more change than I should get, I point it out.
Several years ago, I bought a beautiful snow globe for my daughter. I tucked the gift away when I got home, as I usually do. In the meantime, a very dear friend from high school died suddenly. I was in a state of shock, and when, a few days later, I went to wrap the gift, I couldn’t find it. I checked my receipt, and the snow globe was on there. I went back to the store, explained that the clerk must’ve missed putting it in my bag, and they told me to get another one to replace it…at no charge. A week or so later, I found the original snow globe buried in a drawer. Embarrassed, I took it back to the store and explained. They were SHOCKED and AMAZED that I brought it back. I couldn’t have done otherwise. I couldn’t have lived with my conscience.
Writerdog, you are an honest and good person. I applaud you.
Come on doubtingthomas, if you have something to say then just say it!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2006/123006LEVY.shtml
SPEAKING OUT:Bush Needs To Be Impeached for His Own Good
by PAUL LEVY
We are in a ridiculous situation. Our president is morally bankrupt and criminally insane. This is indisputable; all we have to do to see it is open our eyes and look at what he is doing. Bush defiantly continues to break innumerable domestic and international laws of basic ethical human behavior. Bush is literally embodying and acting out on the world stage what it is to be criminally insane. His pathology is symbolically expressed in his act of not only refusing to participate in the establishment of the International Criminal Court (ICC), but threatening the use of military force in the event that any American national is tried before it.
And yet, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats have no intention of impeaching Bush. What is wrong with this picture? What does this tell us about Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats? If they don’t hold the Bush administration accountable for their endless crimes against humanity, Pelosi and the Democrats are complicit in the madness and criminality that is being perpetrated by the Bush administration. It is the Democrats’ (not to mention the Republicans’, as well as all patriotic Americans’) ethical and constitutional duty to impeach the occupant of the Oval Office if he is morally and criminally insane. End of argument. We ourselves are also complicit if we don’t demand that Bush and his gang of thugs be removed from office.
Bush clearly has no intention of listening to the will of the American people. He has no intention of listening to the advice of the Iraq Study Group. He has no intention of listening to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He has no intention of voluntarily leaving Iraq. He is in total denial that the War in Iraq, as countless experts have pointed out, is already lost. He is only interested in hearing voices that support his self-serving delusions. Unwilling to face up to and admit his disastrous foreign policy misadventures in Iraq, by wanting to send in more troops he is simply increasing his folly and worsening a catastrophic situation. To quote ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern and retired Army colonel W. Patrick Lang, “Those who believe still more troops will bring “victory” are living in a dangerous dream world and need to wake up.” It is as if Bush has fallen asleep at the wheel and is dreaming. Like a mad person, he is clearly not in touch with reality.
Filled with hubris, Bush is acting out the ignorant belief that “might makes right,” which is the universal mistake that has led to the fall of all major empires throughout history. Bush is (mis)leading us off a cliff, taking our nation down an infernal road of self-destruction. At this point only people who are blind do not see this. We simply cannot passively stand by watching this madness play out for the next two years, just impotently waiting for when Bush’s term is up.
Our president is a genuine sociopath; he is clearly not tethered to the real world (which is one of the primary characteristics of madness). Bush lives in the fantasy-land of his own narcissistic imagination. He is acting out the adolescent fantasies of a mythic war of good versus evil with our living sons and daughters as his toy soldiers. He is playing out his extreme unconscious dissociation on the world stage, where he is creating unspeakable suffering for millions of people. He is severely deluded and in extreme denial of what is happening in the real, flesh and blood world. As if blind, Bush is not able to see the destruction he is creating for everyone, himself included. If we don’t see Bush’s madness, however, it is we ourselves who are severely deluded and in extreme denial.Describing this age-old pathology, the great doctor of the soul, C. G. Jung is as if describing our current president when he said, “…they avoid self-criticism to an amazing degree, preach to others, and know nothing of themselves. They are happy to possess no self-knowledge, because then nothing disturbs the rosy glow of illusions.” Jung is describing the pathological state in which someone becomes taken over by their unconscious and lives in a fantasy world of his or her own self-reinforcing delusions. George Bush is embodying and acting out on the world stage the very pathological state that Jung is describing.
Because of his extreme dissociation, Bush has become “inflated” by his unconscious identification with one side of an inherently two-sided polarity, which as any psychologist knows is a sure sign of madness. Overly identified with the light, Bush splits-off from and projects out his own darkness and then, with the greatest war machine the world has ever known, tries to destroy it as it is reflected back by the world. And yet, in the process Bush has unwittingly become possessed by the very darkness he is trying to destroy. Jung pointed out that “Inflation magnifies the blind spot of the eye…. A clear symptom of this is our growing disinclination to take note of the reactions of the environment and pay heed to them.” When someone is inflated, they don’t accept any reflection or feedback from the outside world which contradicts their self-serving delusions and puffed up image of themselves. Instead of being open, receptive, and learning from the outer world, Bush perversely interprets what is happening in the world so as to feed and support his psychosis.
An inflated consciousness, to again quote Jung, “…is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future. It is hypnotized by itself and therefore cannot be argued with. It inevitably dooms itself to calamities that must strike it [and others within its sphere of influence] dead.” If Jung were alive today, he would not have to change one word to have an exact description of the madness of our current president.
Because of the moral depravity and self-deception that Bush has fallen into, he is the very last person on earth who should be leading our country. As evidenced by his endless trail of failures in his life, he is not even capable of leading his own life effectively, let alone the lives of others. If left in power, Bush will continue to wreak unspeakable havoc on the planet. How can anyone not see this? The prognosis for Bush’s pathology is always “death-creating,” in that it ultimately results in self-destruction, not just for himself, but for all those under his dominion, which in this case is all of us.
We need to save Bush from himself. What would we do if we saw a mad person who was destroying himself? If we were sane, which is to say in touch with our compassion, wouldn’t we intervene and stop that person from doing further damage to himself? If this mad person were in a position of power where he could do damage to not only himself but the rest of us as well, wouldn’t we, for the good of everyone, remove him from his position of power? For God’s sake, (not to mention everyone else’s), Bush needs to be impeached and put in a safe place where he can do no further damage.
Though fully accountable for his actions, Bush is a mere figurehead—a puppet on a string controlled by power-hungry forces behind the scenes. Removing Bush and his gang from office ultimately won’t change anything unless we deal with the underlying problem, which is that our present system of government has become irreconcilably corrupted. Both the Republicans and Democrats are under the control of the same corrupt corporate and oligarchical powers. Removing Bush and Co. from office is a necessary first step in the right direction, however. Bush is not just corrupt and morally challenged, but he is embodying what it is to be criminally insane to a degree that is so over-the-top that it literally takes one’s breath (and life) away. Bush is truly a danger to us all.
The most direct and profound way to restore dignity and respect for the American people in the eyes of the international community would be to impeach George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and the other key members of his criminal gang. Changing Bush’s policy of resisting the ICC and joining forces with the global effort to establish an international rule of law, we can then try Bush and his regime for war crimes in the International Criminal Court. To do anything less is criminal.
—–
© Copyright 2006 Paul Levy. Paul Levy describes himself as “an artist and a spiritually-informed political activist.” He is the author of The Madness of George Bush: A Reflection of Our Collective Psychosis, which is available at his website http://www.awakeninthedream.com.
DoubtingT,
If your info is true then you should be allowed to present it. I am against all censorship, except in the case of outright slander or threats.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Capn: Looks like you found a guy who’s viewpoint is even more leftist wacko than you! The problem is, you probably think this guy is spot on.
CF is back from D.C. He spent yesterday afternoon walking up and down Constitution Avenue (Holocaust Memorial, Washington, Lincoln Memorials), and watching in amazement as motorcade after motorcade sped eastward towards the Capitol. By 5 PM, folks were lining up along the parade route, and police blocked off cross streets heading north off Constitution.
For the record, CF briefly considered getting in line at the Capitol to view President Ford’s remains and to pay his respects. But on reflection, he saw very little to respect about Ford’s decision to put purely personal reasons ahead of the good of the country by pardoning a renegade Chief Executive.
Given the disaster of the last thirty years of Executive overreach, a thirty years inaugurated by Ford’s pardon of Richard Nixon, CF decided that the appropriate thing to do was to stay away.
Outlander, I think you’re right. Guess I’ll have to put CapnAmerica on my ignore list as well. Not worth reading one word of his.
Honesty is its own reward
I left a big jar of change at an unattended Salvation Army hut. Driving by 30 minutes later, the hut was surrounded by three cop cars with lights flashing.
Welcome back, CF.
Did you hear the news, I’m getting IGNORED by JM.
Don’t know how I’m going to be able to soldier on knowing that someone who actually believes the world is between 8 and 10,000 years old doesn’t respect my ideas.
Better go to some bar and drown my sorrows.
Actually, it’s New Year’s Eve and that means . . . . going to a bar and kicking up my heels.
Keep the noise down, kids.
“Outlander, I think you’re right. Guess I’ll have to put CapnAmerica on my ignore list as well. Not worth reading one word of his.
“Posted by: StillJM | December 31, 2006 at 06:12 PM”
Even if I totally disagree with words printed anywhere on this blog, I think they are worth reading. It has never hurt me to read words with which I disagree. If I was so harmed, I would have been dead several years ago.
Read the words of those with whom you disagree.
I even welcome Ian, whom my Catholic wife is convinced that he is doomed to hell for his racism. I can’t get her to read his ideas, yet.
Happy New Year!
I agree Steven, it’s only by considering other ideas that we allow ourselves to grow. I know I’ve softened a lot of my views by seeing issues from another’s perspective.To bad many of our world leaders (especially Dubya) refuse to do that, maybe we wouldn’t have so much war.
I agree considering others ideas as long as they don’t try to ram it down my throat. Or perhaps use methods of belittlement, name-calling, insults and generally shoutdown anyone who opposes their view.
If CapnAmerica wants his views, then write them. But don’t use the tactics above when I discuss an issue and expect me to read what you write the next time.
People think they are “winning something” when they do that. They only lose the attention of the very people they are trying to gain.
It is an opinion log afterall, not a shoutdown session.
I usually just scroll past articles that are just pasted into the blog, unless they are factual. I want to know the thoughts of the person posting; to see them put together a cogent argument, rather than have someone cruise the net, find an article they like that says it better than they ever could, and then post it. Any moron can do that.
How old do you think the earth is, JM?
Scientists who study these things believe it is about 4.5 billion years old.
The American Taliban, rejecting rationality in a misguided religious zeal and a willfully wrong-headed reading of the Bible believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old.
So which one is it for you, JM?
This thread reminds me of a story that happened to me a few months back that still bugs my conscious. I found a wallet outside of a gas station with a driver’s license, credit cards, a lot of cash (like $200, everything.I took it into the gas station and asked the bored-looking gal behind the counter if anyone came in looking for a wallet.Her: “What?”Me: “A wallet. Did this girl come in?” I showed her the DL picture.Her: “What are you talking about? Who’s that?”Me: “A WALLET!”Her: “Uhh…does it have any money in it?”Me: “Yes.”
Here her face lights up and her boredom disappears. She says “Yeah, that girl was here just 10 minutes ago, she’ll be back. Just leave the wallet here”.
I felt very uneasy about this, but I didn’t think I could just walk out of the store with the wallet. So I handed it over and hoped that she’d be honest about it. Although the impression I got was that she’d give the wallet back, but tell the poor girl that it was empty when the stranger returned it.
Next time I find a wallet, I’m hunting down the owner myself, or turning it into the police station.
Also, Happy New Year!
Sounds good, Tara. I think that’s the best way to handle it, too. Just think how sick the girl who lost the wallet must have felt if the girl behind the counter didn’t return it to her.I remember seeing a young woman crying hesterically because she cashed her paycheck and then lost her wallet, she was a single mom. I felt so bad for her, for someone to find somethng like that and not return it to the owner takes a pretty cold heart.
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Tara – it would have been interesting if you had recorded all the information and then checked with the manager of the store … or the cops.
combivir – who cares?
Crap–now the spammers are registering on typepad. . .
I believe that there are laws regarding the lost money/wallet scenerio. Something like you turn in what you find to the police. If no one claims it after a period of time you get the property.