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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Dec. 18, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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296 Comments
The Left-Leaning and Unprofessional Kansas Press Maligns and Impugns Phill Kline
http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/12-18.htm
Blah blah blah blah blah Meadowlark. The press did not make up reasons why Kline wasn’t qualified, HE SIMPLY ISN’T QUALIFIED.
There are many anti-abortion women haters out there in the press. They support many who are anti-abortion. Moran, Tiahrt for instance. There is a GOOD reason why the people of Kansas overwhelmingly oppose Phil Kline.
So seriously, quit blaming the media.
Did you even bother to click the link, Mom, or were there too may syllables over there for you? The media has perpetuated so many lies against Kline it is beyond the pale. Reporters have been fired for so much less in other, more honest areas of the country! Because people like you blindly believe them without question (somebody please lock up the Kool-aid) they can continue their dishonest brand of yellow journalism.
Rosemarie I will let Pmom have the chance to respond since it was address to her. But if she does not, I will be your huckleberry, I read it and will be more then happy to reply.
Kline is more than qualified to hold the DA position in Johnson County. It’s an elected position, and the only state qualification is that you be a licence attorney for 5 years.
He satisfies that, he’s qualified and now the DA.
Was their better choices for the positions for the electorate to choose? Sure! But the people voted. That’s democracy for you.
Many times you won’t get the best people for the elected position from the slate of candidates that run for that office. It happens all the time.
Joe, “the electorate” did not “choose” Kline for that position. The Republican precinct men and women did. At the time of the next election, he will be sent scurrying for his next job that he is not qualified for.
Actually Steve! In Kansas Law, he was elected by “the electorate”, because the Republican precinct men and women were elected by the “electorate” and their duty was to “vote” on a replacement for an “elected” position if that position because vaccant.
Look! I’m not trying to defend Kline! But in your mind, qualified, isn’t an accurate statement. He is qualified or he wouldn’t be able to hold that position by state law. But he can, because he is qualified.
What you mean is he politically competent? Will his personal agenda affect his job performance? Will he be adequate enough to perform his duties that is required?
I don’t know! He may or may not. But it’s Johnson County’s problem. I could care less.
My point was that there are many elected position that not the best person gets elected. Hell! Look at most of the Democrat Party.
Yeah! I’m sure John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich are more than competant to become President, right? Anybody is better than Bush, right?
The real test of your blindness and closed mind is to ask you this; Can you name a bad Democrat?
I can name you many bad Republicans and Democrats. That’s because I’m open minded and progressive. I suspect you are not.
The career professionals will probably clear out seeing a party favorite given the job. Good ol’ boy politics, where would we be without them?
The DA’s job is not about abortion.Wingers pushing the anti-abortion agenda is what got Philllll put out in the first place.
I must agree with Joe on this.. by law, Kline is ‘qualified’. But, is he competent? I seriously doubt it. But, I sure won’t lose any sleep over the competency of a DA in some other county.
I also have to agree with Joe on the technicalities. Kline, like many hundreds if not thousands, is qualified. That is, he ahs a license. Also, he was duly chosen by the same proceedure we use all over Kansas. That is, he was elected by a plurality of sitting precinct committee persons of the party from which the leaving DA came. Whether he was the best choice remains to be seen. My inclination is NO; that it would have been better to choose the former deputy who was a JoCo resident.
A bit of good news from the Middle East:
“Ahmadinejad Opponents Leading ElectionsTEHRAN, Iran (AP) – Opponents of hardline President MahmoudAhmadinejad took an early lead in key races in Iran’s localelections, according to partial results announced Monday, withmoderate conservatives winning control of councils across Iran.If the final results hold – especially in the bellwethercapital, Tehran – it will be an embarrassment to Ahmadinejad, whoseanti-Israeli rhetoric and unyielding position on Iran’s nuclearprogram have provoked condemnation in the West and moves towardsanctions at the U.N. Security Council.A freelance Iranian journalist of reformist sympathies, IrajJamshidi, described the vote as “a blow to Ahmadinejad,” who waselected in June 2005.“After a year, Iranians have seen the consequences of theextremist policies employed by Ahmadinejad. Now, they have said abig ‘no’ to him,” said Jamshidi.”
more …
http://my.netscape.com/corewidgets/news/story.psp?cat=51180&id=2006121808310001769603—–
The “Kansas Media” (however you define that — they all look alike, you know) does not have to malign nor impugn Phillkline. He takes care of that by his own actions. Go whistle your sad song somewhere else, Meadowlark. It’s a broken record.
In a month or two, the same article will be published, with Brownback’s name substituted for Phillkline’s.
Iraqi Joke of the Day 12/14This Wickedly Morbid Joke is Making the Rounds in Baghad
A driver is stuck in a traffic jam on the highway.Suddenly a man knocks on his window. The driver rolls down his window and asks, “What’s going on?”
“Terrorists down the road have kidnapped George W. Bush and Dick Cheney,” the man says, “They’re asking $100 million ransom. Otherwise they’re going to douse them with gasoline and set them on fire. We’re going from car to car taking up a collection.”
The driver asks, “How much is everyone giving on average?”
The man responds: “Most people are giving about a gallon.”
http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/topic/27
Kline harasses abortion providers. Ergo, every “right to birther” in the state will support whatever he does and attack whoever attacks him.
They’re irrational fanatics, and having lost and lost again de jure, they strive to overturn the law of the land and the will of the majority de facto.
As proof of their irrational fanaticism, I put forward one Randall Terry leader of Operation Rescue at the very beginning who condemned comprehensive sex ed and condom use . . . or even information about contraception.
Who else saw Robert’s self-serving piece of propaganda in Sunday’s “Eagle,” “Intel must be above politics” (or something similiar)?
This from the man who NEVER FINISHED the intelligence report he was tasked with, obviously because it should Bush’s criminal and immoral culpability in the trumped up case for war in Iraq.
Republicans have become like the old Soviet Union. After the communists invaded someplace like Afghanistan they’d put out a press release that they are stopping Western imperialism.
When you completely negate it, it’s true.
“As proof of their irrational fanaticism, I put forward one Randall Terry leader of Operation Rescue at the very beginning who condemned comprehensive sex ed and condom use . . . or even information about contraception.” Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 18, 2006 at 08:29 AM
That’s the problem with DemoCRAPs like you Capn, is you tend to lump everthing anyone who has ever lived in the same pot if it suits your purposes.
Kline did not harass Abortion Clinics, he subpoened records. Of course, some other DemoCRAPs put out lies during the campaign including that Johnson Co DA stating that Kline was going after the privacy of EVERYONE’s medical records.
Nothing could have been further from the truth. For one, the personal information was blotted out by the attorney’s for one of those Abortion Clinics. And btw, what do those abortion clinic records have to do with records at a Podiatry Clinic?
How about nothing!! It’s infuriating when DemoCrappy mouthpieces like you use boldfaced lies to further their position.
What does Randall Terry have to do with the Attorney General’s office? How about nothing!!
You start talking about Phil Kline and bring up a bushel and a peck of other things that Kline never said, never did and never proposed.
The only irrational fanatic I see on this topic is you CapnAmerica. You couldn’t stand to tell the straight truth if you were paid money for it.
Capn: They don’t want to change the law, they want to BECOME the law — as they see. “Fuck the majority, what do they know?” – Der Dreibund (Randall Terry, Phillkline & Sam Brownback).
JM: Excuse me. So Phillkline blotted out (allegedly) the personal information. Isn’t that defacto proof that his sole intent was harrassing the provider and not the patients? Once again, you ProLifers want it both ways.
Capn,
You think anyone who claims to be a Republican expresses the true will and platform of the Republican party.
Look at David Duke, the one who visited Iran. He claims to be a Republican. Why? Because it suited him at the time he was running for office. He does not any way represent the values or any measure of the Republican National Party platform. Duke is an anarchist, former Democrat, KKK spokesman and etc. He serves only his purpose.
He could slap a label on himself tomorrow by registering as a Liberterian. Does he represent all Libertarians? He doesn’t care who he taints or what party he affiliates with, he only wishes to further his selfish agenda.
When Democraps like you CapnUnAmerica start lumping Republicans into the same category as the former Soviet Union, you are nothing but a Democrappy mouthpiece of propaganda very much like David Duke who does things to serve his own selfish purposes.
That comparison is a slap in the face of good American people who belong to the Republican party. You want to slap me in the face too? Bring it on!
“That’s the problem with DemoCRAPs like you Capn, is you tend to lump everthing anyone who has ever lived in the same pot if it suits your purposes.”
The irony of this statement (not to mention its childishness) is truly astonishing.
“JM: Excuse me. So Phillkline blotted out (allegedly) the personal information. Isn’t that defacto proof that his sole intent was harrassing the provider and not the patients? Once again, you ProLifers want it both ways.”Posted by: rm6046 | December 18, 2006 at 08:53 AM
rm, You have no clue do you?
It was Tiller’s Abortion Clinic attorneys that blotted out the personal information.
Again, there was no harassment; medical records from an Abortion Clinic were subpoened from very specific files to check for criminal activity. That is the part of the job being the Attorney General.
If Tiller has nothing to hide, why doesn’t he just cooperate? Ever think to ask that question?
“The irony of this statement (not to mention its childishness) is truly astonishing.” Posted by: ksagnostic | December 18, 2006 at 09:00 AM
Naw, it’s now I’m using tactics like the DemoCRAPS. That is I can call names and be irrational.
Do you like it? I bet not.
CapnUnAmerica will pull some ‘thing’ out of his green moldy behind say it’s Republican and expects everyone to believe it. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
CapnUnAmerica evidently went to the Soviet School of Propaganda and therefore must be a card carrying Communist. That is the type of logic he employs.
JM–Whew, nice rant!
Truth apparently hurts, doesn’t it?
How did Whine get the information that he kept “confidential” by sharing it with Bill O’Reilly and several million viewers?
Don’t worry. The new AG will find out . . .
And it’s not overgeneralizing at all to say that most pro-life (that is, “forced-birth”) organizations not only oppose abortion but they also strongly oppose comprehensive sex ed (that is, REAL sex ed as opposed to abstinence only) and contraception.
If you don’t believe it, go to their websites. I’d be interested in any that are pro-forced-birth and pro-comprehensive sex ed. too.
Let me know of any . . .
Capn,I am one. I believe in not killing children and education/protecting them. I think handing out prophylactics in high school might be adding a little fuel to the fire, but education would be a wonderful thing.
How bout this (it would be expensive, but also very enlightening) have the high schoolers carry around baby dolls for 7 days. They have them out that cry at regular intervals like a human child would needing attention. Changing them, feeding them, putting them to sleep, etc. Educate the students about the RESPONSIBILITY of creating life thru recreation.
City halts digital billboardsAtlanta Business Chronicle -December 15, 2006 by Ryan Mahoney Staff Writer
http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2006/12/18/story3.html?b=1166418000^1390223&hbx=e_abd
As for Republicans, “ye shall know them by their fruits.”
Did Roberts produce the report on intelligence or did he protect his party bosses?
Were there WMD’s in Iraq, like Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Condi-Wolfowitz-Perle-Powell said or were there not?
Did the US allow Hans Blix to do a thorough job inspecting for WMD’s in Iraq or did they kick him out after a scant few months even though he had found nothing, not even chemical traces which would be impossible to hide.
Did the ensuing invasion of Iraq go as planned with a clear “exit strategy” which Bush promised us he’d have?
Did Bush actually show “fiscal restraint” as he promised or did he increase government spending by some 45 percent in six years, growing the national debt to a post-war all-time high.
Did Bush actually have “no warning” about the 9-11 attacks, despite the fact that Cheney personally took over the anti-terrorism committee and NEVER MET THAT COMMITTEE before the attacks.
That Clinton was accused of “doing nothing” for eight years and so Bush came into office and immediately changed that, right?
*****
I’m not against all Republicans, JM. I am against the ones who support the Worst. President. Ever.
And that includes Roberts and you.
Sol–
Good idea.
But your position is in the clear minority among pro-birthers.
Europeans (single and married) have just as much sex as their American counterparts, yet their unwanted pregnancy rates are a tiny fraction of ours.
Why is that, do you think?
Contraception education, availability, and responsible use.
It helps a lot when you don’t have idelogues feeding kids lies like “condoms don’t protect against AIDS” and “condoms fail more often than they work” in their so-called sex ed classes.
JM – the actions of RepubliCON Kline in turning over the records to RepubliCON mouthpiece Bill O’Lielly says a lot. And RepubliCON-men like you just continue to spread the CON lies.
JM – “That is I can call names and be irrational.”
Obviously JM went to the Goebbels Nazi School of Propaganda and therefore must be a card carrying Nazi. That is the type of logic he employs.
“Truth apparently hurts, doesn’t it?How did Whine get the information that he kept “confidential” by sharing it with Bill O’Reilly and several million viewers?” Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 18, 2006 at 09:16 AM
Avoid the truth by any means CapnUnAmerica? You call my posts rants, I say all of your are posted rants are based on pure lies.
You switch from one topic to confuse the reader. You put OReilly in one sentence, then you start off something but lumping sex education and abortion clinic in another.
Hard for you to focus on one topic? Might pin you down to to the truth?
You will, in your DemoCrappy fashion, try to lump all of this in a later posts that this is the way all Republicans think.
You will try to bring truth to a total lie, but that’s the DemoCrappy way isn’t it?
In your way of thinking if one American soldier dies anywhere in there world, it must be the fault of all of the Republican Party? Right?
It couldn’t possibly be the fault of the one who killed him/her? Naw, that would be too logical.
DemoCraps need to put a political spin on it, no matter how tragic it is. Just as long as they can use it for political gain.
CapnUnAmerica, you are what’s wrong with the United States. You speak lies, half-truths, promote chaos and generally use anything for your own selfish interests.
You sure you aren’t a cousin of David Duke? Maybe a descendant of Benedict Arnold? Willingly to turn for a few silver coins?
Awwww, how cute…CapnUnAmerica is now using a troll to post.
Gutless…
Heh, good come-back, JM (sarcasm).
I’ll let the readers decide who ranting and who’s not.
For the record, I haven’t used any other nics since I started using this one many months ago . . .
What is your position on birth control and comprehensive sex ed, JM?
(Sit back and enjoy the “saying without saying” which is sure to follow . . . pass the popcorn.)
Here’s one to ponder… Why is it left to the schools? Shouldn’t parents be held responsible for their kids sex ed and their actions?
I’m not saying that it shouldn’t occur in schools, but isn’t it up to the parents to raise their children. Not baby-sit and keep them fed, but to REALLY raise them. You don’t see that much anymore.
Sol – while I agree with you that it should be the parents teaching this I also see cases where the school (or some other entity) must step in. Sadly, far too many parents are as clueless as their kids.
JM – you complain about someone “lump everthing anyone who has ever lived in the same pot” and then do just that with your “DemoCRAP” bashing and “commie” name-calling.
” but that’s the RepubliCON way isn’t it?”
Yup, all is suddenly quiet from the vociferous JM.
They don’t want the American people to know that it’s not just abortion they oppose–it’s any non-procreational SEX.
In fact, if they could figure out a way to make procreational sex UNpleasurable, they’d probably be for that too.
Pleasure (especially sexual pleasure) equals sin to these people.
TRUTH = PeeMom
Abstinence is the most effective form of birth control and limiting STDs to include AIDS. I’d rather my son abstain than perform. But I understand this will not always happen no matter how much I talk to him. So you have to offer both solutions. “OK son, as we’ve talked about sex out of wedlock is wrong, but if you just can’t control yourself, make sure you use one of these. This is how you do it…..”
Sounds like a perfectly acceptable approach.
sol – agreed. And, unlike when I was a kid, they are much easier to obtain.
CapnUnAmerica,
Avoid my questions by making up your own questions? Typical avoidance by a DemoCrap.
My stance on sex education is I find nothing wrong with Public Schools having sex education classes. However, passing out condoms is something that a school should not be involved in. That is better left up to a certified healthcare provider or a novel idea, buy your own condoms.
Using abortion clinics as birth control is an abomination.
My position on birth control is to keep it in your pants, used condoms that the individual buys, not the schools.
How about another novel idea? Show some individual responsibility and not have sex with any female standing on two legs?
The hypocrits will view the animal channel and say ‘look a baby seal’ when they examine in utero views of a seal in the womb of its mother.
When they view a human in the womb, demoCraps say “Look at the fetus, it can be aborted, that’s they way we demoCraps do birth control.” Note, it’s not a human, it’s a fetus. As if it is not human never was a human or never will be a human. Yeah, keep pretending that abortion isn’t the actual killing of humans…
“Pleasure (especially sexual pleasure) equals sin to these people.” Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 18, 2006 at 10:01 AM
“These people.” There you go again, generalizing.
Pleasure? Sure thing; between husband and a wife. But you’d rather in a Romanistic society where one can gorge themselves on food and sex without consequences, right CapnUnAmerica?
“JM – you complain about someone “lump everthing anyone who has ever lived in the same pot” and then do just that with your “DemoCRAP” bashing and “commie” name-calling.”Posted by: Ben Huie | December 18, 2006 at 10:01 AM
Nope, I’m just digging my spurs into CapnUnAmerica to see if he likes being the recipient of reciprocal hypocricy for his two-faced positions and telling out and out lies.
Notice how CapnUnAmerica avoided the initial issue of including Kline in the actions of others.
He sidesteps what he writes by avoiding answering questions, asking new unrelated questiona and generally excusing his bias for anything decent by using the ‘pleasure’ card.
If someone has a position on morality, they are a nut. Heck,let’s just all go chaotic. I mean no laws for murder, rape, incest…a free for all. That’s what CapnunAmerica is proposing, a n amoral society or should I say an immoral society.
Oh boy, we get to try Roe V Wade again right here!Damned activists judges did not interpret the law to fit some so they must be wrong.If the wingers get their way, we’ll do away with the judiciary and let the preznut be ‘the decider’.After all, Jayzuz Okayed his war.
Let the record show that sol is in favor of forcing a woman to carry and bare the child of rape.
JM? You mention trolling? Hey as irrational and nuts as the nic JM USUALLY is? I’m prepared to believe that JM is not in fact JM. If you are? What crawled up your ass this AM?
Oh let me guess. You don’t get to tell other people how to live or when to love.
Let me twist that knife a bit.
Abortion is safe and legal. This is NOT going to change. Deal with it. Suck on it. Climb off your bible and your high horse. Go out and make this sorry society one where ALL life is cherished.
How safe is the abortion for the “Fetus”?
Junior. Prove your lie.
If one indivual represents a party then I guess the Phelps family is representative of the Democrat Party.
How welcoming is our society of others among the needy and helpless?
We tolerate you junior, you being in the ‘helpless’ arena.
sol
You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension.
jr. = junior
My nic is J R. These are my initials.
What lie did I tell solie?
“Let the record show that sol is in favor of forcing a woman to carry and bare the child of rape.”
Junior does not necessarily reflect that you share the name of your father. There are other connotations junior.
sol/paul
Ok lets play games with nics then.I think yours was originally paul?
Paul it is then.
You have posted in favor of forcing a rape victim to carry and bare the child of that crime. You did it in the last 2 days. You wanna retract it, qualify it? or do I need to go get your own words?
By all means, get my own words.
I apologize to Brenda for re-sharing her very personal story here. It is necessary to provide context to demonstrate that Paul/sol is less than honest.
“I’ve had people tell me that just because my child was a product of rape I still had no right to abort it. I believe I had every right. I don’t believe that you can tell anyone else what is good for them either.Sol,You are assuming that women abort because pregnancy is “inconvenient.” Have you ever met someone who had to make that kind of a decision. Let me tell you that as a 16 year old I had an agonizing time. However, to this day I believe it was the right one. If I had given birth the child most likely would have been abused as I was. At that time in my life I would never have been strong enough to protect the child. And believe me there are worst things then death. There have been times in my life because of the abuse I suffered I think it would have been kinder to have just killed me. It took a long time to work through all the shit. And there are more women out there like me than most people want believe. So I believe still it should be my choice.Posted by: Brenda Shull | December 16, 2006 at 07:28 PMThank you for that Brenda. I never had an abortion. But I do fight for the rights of women to choose. It isn’t merely inconvenient to be pregnant! It can be downright dangerous, as it was with me. Women who have babies who can’t afford them usually just end up keeping them, hoping it will turn out for the best. Too young girls tote their babies around to different men, parties…some of the environments these kids are being brought up in is not healthy. Then there is the abuse when times get tough. Thank goodness I came from a good home, and I had the tools and support to deal with it, and it was hard even then. And no matter what you say, more often the father ends up skating on the mom. Remember that story where the mom dropped the kid off at the fathers, and SHE was arrested because he didn’t want the kid? That’s the kind of crap I’m talking about.Posted by: political_mom | December 16, 2006 at 09:10 PM“If I had given birth the child most likely would have been abused as I was.”And Brenda, I am glad you are still breathing. Damn shame your child isn’t. I am betting you are doing OK now. Damn shame we can’t say the same about your child.“But I do fight for the rights of women to choose.”Pol_mom, who fights for the unborn?As I’ve stated before, I believe in God. He does not give you more than you can bare. If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world, then He has given you the tools to handle the situation.People, especially children, are astoundingly resilient. I am assuming that Brenda is an upstanding citizen today despite being brought up in abuse. Who is is to say her child would not rebound as well. Well never know now.Posted by: SolDevVB | December 16, 2006 at 09:35 PM
Paul? I read that as you think or at least popped off that rape is a gift from God.Would you care to explain?
“If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world, then He has given you the tools to handle the situation. “
I don’t see rape anywhere in this statement.
If we are going to get into how you perceive what I write, then maybe I should dig up a post and read into it that you enjoy receiving anal sex?
Stick to what I wrote, not how you choose to bend it.
Nice try Paul/sol.
Instead of squirming and calling names? Why not either stand by your original statement, or back away from it? Why the equivocation?
YOU posted what you did in DIRECT response to Brenda.
Your words Paul/sol. Choke on ‘em!
“That comparison is a slap in the face of good American people who belong to the Republican party.”**OXYMORON ALERT**
You want to slap me in the face too? Bring it on!REPUBLICAN GETS PUT DOWN…WANT’S TO GET VIOLENTWhat a sorry piece of work you are, JM.
>>
Uh, OK, let’s try this again. This was directed to Pol_mom. Would you like help with the multi-syllable words too?
***“But I do fight for the rights of women to choose.”Pol_mom, who fights for the unborn?As I’ve stated before, I believe in God. He does not give you more than you can bare. If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world, then He has given you the tools to handle the situation.***
sol – I have to agree with J R that “If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world”, taken in the context of a rape situation, is saying “If the rape makes you pregnant you should deliver.”
As for “He has given you the tools to handle the situation” it is not at all clear what tools you are referring to. Are you going to contribute such “tools”?
Ben,Read the context and to whom the comment is directed…
***“But I do fight for the rights of women to choose.”Pol_mom, who fights for the unborn?As I’ve stated before, I believe in God. He does not give you more than you can bare. If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world, then He has given you the tools to handle the situation.***The tools being your faith and intelligence to either keep the child and love and protect it or give it to someone who will.
One two three
one two three
do si do
You’re dancing Paulsol.
And not very well.
I could play with you all day and only make you look worse. But you’re a newbie and it’s the holiday season. So I’m gonna throw you a rope….or an anvil.
There’s an easier way you know.
Instead of trying to parse what you HAVE said, why not just come out and say one way or the other.
Are you in favor of allowing a woman to choose to terminate a pregnancy that was the result of rape? And if so? Would you care to apologize to Brenda for any misunderstanding?
The context of Pol_Mom…
***Thank you for that Brenda. I never had an abortion. But I do fight for the rights of women to choose. It isn’t merely inconvenient to be pregnant! It can be downright dangerous, as it was with me. Women who have babies who can’t afford them usually just end up keeping them, hoping it will turn out for the best. Too young girls tote their babies around to different men, parties…***
cat SolDevVB > /dev/null
Sorry, that was too easy! :)
After seeing that last post, I take back my apology. . .
Rage,WTF? What is that?
Redirection to the *nix bit bucket, unread. . . geek humor.
Unix? I develop in .Net/Windows.
Sol,I thought that God gave us free-will to choose. He has given us the ability to choose for ourselves between right/wrong.
(…”If he gives you the glorious opportunity to bring a human life into this world, then He has given you the tools to handle the situation.”…) From this I gather that if a woman becomes impregnated then she automatically must have the child because she has been given the tools to handle the situation.I know nothing of Brenda’s situation other than what she wrote. But how can a 16 year old caught up in abuse have the tools to handle her pregnancy (other than being physically able to bear the child). I assume she would be terrified and thinking it best to save her child from the abuse she chooses to abort. Imagine yourself in her shoes and think about it. Shame on you Sol for throwing ’sticks and stones’ at her. Whatever happened to the compassion that Christians are supposed to have?
Julie,I have thought about it. There are VERY few reasons I can come up with to willingly abort a pregnancy. Rape is the only one that has been addressed on this forum.I have deliberately not addressed aborting a rape induced pregnancy. I have not come to expectable terms in my own mind to voice an opinion.Y’all have really jumped into junior’s mist of befuddlement. The response y’all keep quoting has absolutely nothing to do with rape.Please read the context before assuming what and to whom I was writing.
I can’t speak much as to Brenda’s situation. I know of only what she shared. But what I DO know, and told her, is that there WAS a reason she was put in the place she was.
Brenda helps children and woman in abusive situations. At least she has written this and I have no reason to doubt it. Think about that. She is relating to people on THEIR level. She has been there. How many lives has she touched and helped because of her situation?
She is passing on the lessons, and I am guessing some guidance, to help others. The suffering of one is now helping many. Call me naive, but to me that sounds like the Hand of God.
JM: Yes, the names were blotted out by Tiller’s attorneys. It called doctor-patient confidentiality. Phillkline really didn’t mind, because the focus of his “investigation of criminal activities” was not, age-inappropriate and illegal sexual activity or child-rape, if you prefer,as advertised, it was Tiller…period. And anybody with half of a brain could see that.
If there really is an “axis of evil”, how about this:
Sam Brownback + Phillkline + Operation Rescue.
Problem is sol, for some those ‘tools’ might be to find a clinic. That is why I contribute to the life alternatives at Catholic Charities. And why I asked my other question of you.
The situation to which pol-mom was referring was pregnancy due to rape I think. So, in such a case it is a “glorious opportunity” in the eyes of the rape victim? I think we need a whole lot more support for her in such cases; especially if we are going to ask her to carry to term.
Oh my! All of the “give me my abortion on demand” freaks are out. hah!
Then they bring up rape and incest and avoid the issue of tens of thousands of lazy, immoral women using abortion as birth control.
If it was rape incest, we need to investigate that right? We have to protect our children!
Well dumbfahs! That’s what Kline was trying to do by subpoeaning the records from Tiller’s Abortion clinic! Very specific record pull, no names disclosed, just looking at the facts.
Did Adolf “Mengele” Tiller cooperate? Nooooooo…he is definetelly hiding something.
WOW !!!!
Can ANYONE see a reference to rape in the following? Pol_Mom is speaking in generalities for the rights of WOMEN, not just a specific case of rape. She doesn’t EVEN MENTION RAPE.
Do you guys READ?????
***Thank you for that Brenda. I never had an abortion. But I do fight for the rights of women to choose. It isn’t merely inconvenient to be pregnant! It can be downright dangerous, as it was with me. Women who have babies who can’t afford them usually just end up keeping them, hoping it will turn out for the best. Too young girls tote their babies around to different men, parties…***
“The real test of your blindness and closed mind is to ask you this; Can you name a bad Democrat?”
Sorry I missed your rant, Joe. I guess it would depend upon what you mean by “bad” democrat – one whom I disagree with – every heard of LBJ? Or do you mean “bad” in the sense of not adhering to the principles of the party? – ever hear of Bill Clinton of Kathleen Sebelius?
Your attempts to discredit me by saying I am partisan – this from some one who calls themselves something other than what they appear to be – is amusing…
Trying to say that the selection of precinct men and women is done by the “electorate” is truly laughable. The men and women who selected Kline were only selected by voters in the Republican Primary. Now, that is the kind of “democracy” (sic) Joe Williams is interested in.
Once more, shaking my head…
sol?
You really are coming across as pathetically desperate.
I wonder if that isn’t just the slightest taste for you of what a woman with an unplanned pregnancy must feel?
Maybe you should remember how you are feeling right now the next time you are tempted to pop off.
Nope bud it is all there. There is no misunerstanding or manipulation of context. You leveled three crafted nasty shots at somone with a painful story. You used her name.
You aren’t man enough to take a stand one way or the other even though I gave you the chance. You’d rather whine foul and call me names.
I hold you up as an example of what is at the heart of narrow little people like yourself. Julie was right you should be ashamed.
“Bad democrat” – top of my list LBJ. Fred Phelps to the extent that he is really a Dem. Old man Daley of Chicago. That guy in Jersey who was selling favors (can’t remember the name). Nagin.
Junior, think what you want. Say what you want. The fact, as posted several times, is that I was addressing Pol_Mom. If you want to spout drivel and others choose to accept it, bully for you. Score one.
It is impossible to discuss a topic with someone who will post lies and twist another’s post to your own discretion. Bully for you.
Wow ya’ll have been busy. I have lots of responses but I can’t right now, got some stuff to do. And we really need to get a FREAKING law passed on how long a GD company can keep you on an automated telephone system. COX COMMUNICATIONS THAT AUTO TECH SUPPORT THINGY SUCKS!! I spent 30 minutes on that only to be disconnected! I want a real live person to talk to!
But I will say this again- if God didn’t give us more than we could handle, we wouldn’t have all these suicides and homicides and infancides and people lingering in unbearable pain waiting and wanting BEGGING to die. And Andrea Yates and women who think God told them to stone their children or saw their arms off. And don’t say ‘well only if you believe’ many of the people who do these things are devout Christians. I don’t know what fantasy world you live in Sol, but I live in reality.
Yes Sol, maybe God did put us women who’ve been there and understand the reasons for abortion out there so we can fight against you nuts who haven’t a clue.
The reality is we have free choice. My reality is that God and satan exist. Satan is the king of lies. He will do whatever it takes to get your soul.
If God places a large burden on your shoulders, then He must think pretty highly of you. Prove him right.
“all these suicides and homicides and infancides and people lingering in unbearable pain waiting and wanting BEGGING to die.”
funny you bring up infancides…
Suicide is satan’s favorite lie. Instant damnation. Homicides? Thought quite often of that thru my divorce. But I CHOSE not to act on it.
Yes, atrocities happen. I believe they happen for a reason. Seems that Brenda is now doing well, has a loving household, and is spreading her love and caring to some of those most in need.
Having an opposing opinion = no clue? Pretty radical jump.
And maybe so.
CapnUnAmerica has disappeared from the scene to lick his wounds!
He supports birth control by abortion! If momma don’t feel like having a child, she can just go see Adolf Mengele Tiller and get it scraped out! Right after her nail and hair appointment of course.
Great news out of Iran: it appears that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s party is having its ass handed to it in national elections.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-iran-elections.html?hp&ex=1166504400&en=7e2f7d3f72229d11&ei=5094&partner=homepage
The situation is, as is often said, “fluid,” and it’s not fully clear which way things will go. With that said, it’s wonderful to see reformist and moderate voters asserting themselves and demonstrating that sanity still resides within the Iranian republic.
I don’t expect this will make in difference to the Administration’s war planners, however. They did everything they could to stymie Rafasnjani and Iranian reformists. And anyway, since when did the Bush “Administration” let a little thing like elections get between them and what they were planning to do anyway?
You know what Pol_Mom, you’re right. A woman’s right to choose. The consequences of that choice, to the mother, are her own. What I believe does not matter.
Take a dose of my own medicine. There doesn’t need to be a law against it, they can damn themselves till the cows come home. God does not rule by the laws of man.
Good news indeed CF. I have been following this for a while now. It is too bad the Bush administration gives political ammunition to Ahmadinejad.
Thank you for finally getting it. Your religious beliefs have nothing to do with how I feel and have no impact upon the decisions I make nor anyone elses. If you want to help women keep their babies, by all means do so- give them the tools to make it happen. I’d love to see fewer women feel the need to take that route.
And JM, very few women use abortions as birth control. Think of the cost OMG!
“Great news out of Iran: it appears that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s party is having its ass handed to it in national elections.”
Good deal! I figured it would happen. Let’s just see how long it takes the administration to screw this up (sigh. . .).
Now if we can make another two years till we can make a change…
In 2004 5971 abortions were performed for Kansas residents5475 were non-residents. 89 abortions for kansans occurred out of state.
There were 39,553 live births in kansas in 2004.
Not bad eh, 15 percent kill rate of the total baby population in Kansas for Tiller’s death machine.
Of course, that would be the the entire population of Lindsborg in McPherson county AND Belle Plain in Sumner County, Kansas.
No potty training or nite time bottle feeding for 15 percent of mothers in Kansas, no sireee.
Get in your car and visit old Adolf Mengele Tiller, he’ll take care of your problems. Scrape, squeegee, flush flush all done. Check please!
JM has a problem with math too, apparently.
5971 minus 5475 equals 496. 496 plus 89 equals 585.
585 divided by 39,553 is 1.5 percent–not 15.
******
Something without a brain does not qualify as human, JM.
Biology isn’t your bag either, eh?
You must have gone to PUBLIC school . . . (sarcasm off)
If you think that abortion is murder, you welcome to try to change the law.
South Dakota tried to do that in November.
How’d that work out for them?
CapnUnAmerica has a reading comprehension issue. He can’t even read simple statistics.
I used the 5971 abortion of babies scraped out to show how it would affect a population. That is the number of Kansas residents that had abortions. I have 2005 data that shows similar results of over 10,000 abortions performed in Kansas.
You want to test me on biology, go ahead, I’ve had biology, zoology, physiology (intro,advanced) anatomy (intro, comparative and micro), microbiology (3 courses), organic chemistry, epidemiological statistics, and other courses too numerous to mention.
Yeah, I went to public school and public Universities and maintained a 3.90 GPA for all college level cumulative scores through Master’s Degree.
So Capn, what percentage of those babies were going to be born without a brain? You don’t know and can’t know.
Again, speaking out of your moldy cheese smelling backside.
“The abortion controversy has another twist. Planned Parenthood and others in the abortion clinic business make their money by selling abortions, birth control pills, pregnancy tests . . . ”
Life Dynamics, http://www.ldi.org/
Former Playboy Playmate, Rebecca Armstrong, gives presentation at Purdue University urging college women to perform oral sex using flavored condoms, among other strategies, to avoid AIDS.
When poorer countries ask America for help we send condoms and IUDs.
Life Talk Television
FED’S WEBSITES MISLEAD
A National Cancer Institute fact sheet temporarily suggested the possibility of a link between abortion and breast cancer (scientists say with near unanimity that there isn’t one). A statement explaining why educating teens about how to use condoms does not increase sexual activity was deleted from a Centers for Disease Control fact sheet. And so forth.
4parents.gov delivers a stealth dose of pro-life advocacy. The site defines pregnancy, for instance, as a process “that begins when an egg cell and a sperm cell unite.” Actually, not every fertilized egg implants in the wall of the uterus, meaning that a better definition of pregnancy would probably emphasize implantation, not fertilization. The site also refers to a fertilized egg shortly after implantation as an “unborn child,” a phrase that appears repeatedly on 4parents.gov.
In order to make its pro-abstinence case, 4parents.gov also presents selective or distorted information about the effectiveness of condoms, a common tick on the religious right. The site takes every opportunity to downplay condom efficacy,
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/11/opinion/main687325.shtml
Pro-life posters make statements like this one on pro-life websites: I did see that last night. PP makes me sick. That organization truly is an evil organization, I don’t say that lightly either, but they really are evil. The tell kids to have sex or as close to that as they possibly can without saying that word for word. Then they give out PP condoms (BTW Consumer Reports tested several condoms on the market and guess who had the worst ones? PP that’s who. I wouldn’t accuse them of intentionally giving crappy condoms out on purpose, but then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were doing that.) to any HS student who wants one. My dad was shocked when I was given a condom by the University I attend, he’s also shocked when I talk about PP and NARAL to him as well. PP should definately be disliked for their, “Here’s a condom, go at it, have as much sex as you want to kids.” attitude they have towards sex education.
http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=238&enterthread=y
Fr. Frank Pavone is our national advisor for the LoveMatters.com newspaper project and he’s already helped us distribute more than 1.6 million copies. But we’ve only just begun. Millions of new high school & college students need to see this powerful pro-life/chastity newspaper ASAP.
http://www.prolife.com/
CHRISTIAN TEEN DISCUSSES HOW SHAME LEADS TO ABORTION
Problematic as this response would have been, it pales in comparison to what has actually happened to other Christian teenagers, who have been disowned, thrown out of their homes, and even physically harmed. It later came as no surprise that, according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, one in five women seeking abortions is a born-again or an Evangelical Christian. Had I become pregnant as a teenager, I would have done all in my power–including consider an abortion–to avoid the shame I would have felt in the eyes of my Christian community. . . .
I had to come to terms with the fact that the women against whom I had so emphatically protested in high school were good people, people I knew, people I would want for my friends. What to do with that? Love the sinner, hate the sin? Fairly easy to say in Christian theory, but my friends didn’t seem like sinners. They seemed like girls who had fallen in love, or been taken advantage of, or even raped.
I started to wonder about sin, and why so much sin in the Christian tradition falls on women, centers around women’s bodies.
http://www.alternet.org/story/42888/
Yup, good question . . . what is the big obsession with women’s sexuality?
You use the statistics of people coming from outside Kansas to the number of births in Kansas.
You have to compare the number of abortions for Kansas women against the number of births for Kansas women.
Anything else is meaningless.
Also, when I said “without a brain,” I meant that in fhe first trimester when most abortions occur, the fetus doesn’t have a brain, like Terri Schavio.
And how did that vote to restrict abortion work out for your side?
Capn,How do you feel about women aborting late term because they are depressed?
My track record at getting requested threads is spotty at best. But here goes.
I’d like a thread with this question: If you are against abortion, are you willing to repeal welfare “reform”? Are you also in favor of completely free government provided medical care for mother and child?
Let’s see if ol’ JM or solie or outlander show up for that one.
Bring it
Two words – Robin Lowman.
You use the statistics of people coming from outside Kansas to the number of births in Kansas. You have to compare the number of abortions for Kansas women against the number of births for Kansas women. Posted by: CapnAmerica | December 18, 2006 at 06:48 PM
The 5971 number was the number of abortions performed for Kansas residents. Over 1200 were done in Sedwick County alone.
Do the math and get a clue.
Nice work quoting a story by someone else to try and make yourself look good.
Sugar icing on a fecal cake is still detestable. Quit serving up your **** CapnUnAmerica.
Okay, I got confused by your posting of Kansas and non-Kansas residents.
Yup, 15 percent would be right then.
My bad . . .
Let’s see, the voters in South Dakota shot down the proposition that put restrictions on abortion there, didn’t they?
I thought I heard that somewhere . . .
“How do you feel about women aborting late term because they are depressed?”
How do I feel about it? I don’t feel anything about it because I don’t get pregnant.
I think it should be the person who gets pregnant’s decision.
And if you don’t like it, you’re welcome to try to change the law.
You got the Supreme Court, so now would the time to press your case.
I can’t think of anything that will help the liberal-progressive cause than having conservatives trying to ram their morals down everybody’s throats.
Make my day . . .
” I’d like a thread with this question: If you are against abortion, are you willing to repeal welfare “reform”? Are you also in favor of completely free government provided medical care for mother and child? Let’s see if ol’ JM or solie or outlander show up for that one.”Posted by: J R | December 18, 2006 at 06:59 PM
I’ll show up if I’m not working contract somewhere. Consultant work is irregular and unpredictable.
Here’s my short answer:
Child Care and free medical care for mother and child: Yes, if they cannot afford it economically nor have health insurance. Or at least low cost health care for those on the low end of the economic scale.
I do know that there are many agencies, Catholic, Presbyterian and other faith-based agencies that offer help; State based agencies; county based agencies; independently run based agencies that do assist mothers and child with health care.
Sol, do you know anything about clinical depression? It isn’t just “feeling bad.” It is not just a temporary case of feeling a “little blue.”
Clinical depression can be and often is life-threatening. Depression is a medical issue.
Shouldn’t medical issues be left to medical professionals?
Capn: How could you think that there were only 585 abortions by Kansas state residents in a year? Tiller wouldn’t be able to donate the blood money he does to the Democratic candidates like Paul Morrison with that paltry number. Your grasp of the reality of the horror is off by a factor of 10. There were actually 5,971.
JM is, of course, correct in his assertion that the total number of abortions by KS residents was 15% as large as the total birth figure in Kansas. If you include those abortions on out of staters here on Tiller’s Special Late Term Abortion Tours, (5,988) it equals over 30% of total births. That’s 30 abortions in Kansas for every 100 live births. Nice. That’s the kind of tourism we attract here in River City.
Calm yourself, Sol.
Yeah Capn UnAmerica,
Let’s all be apathetic about the 1,000,000 babies aborted over the last 30 years.
Depression is treatable and abortion is not a solution to depression. If that were true, Psychiatrists would be suggesting pregnancy and then obtaining abortion to cure depression.
As far as I know, Adolph Mengele Tiller is not a licensed Psychiatrist, so he shouldn’t even be diagnosing depression.
He’s hiding something or he’d be more forthcoming and cooperating with the State Attorney General’s office on his medical records for late term abortions.
I feel really special. While I was working you all were attacking and defending me. For those who defended me thank you. For those who think I’m some sort of a sinner, let me say I don’t care what you think about me. It is true that I was able to take my experience and turn all the horror into something positive. However I don’t believe it was God’s will for me to suffer the way I did. God allows free will and sometimes when it is exercised people are badly hurt.Sol,You are the reason I have such contempt for “christians.” You are so sure that you know what is right for the rest of the world and that you have the market cornered on what and who God is. Just so you know one of the people I tried to tell about my abuse was my pastor’s wife. She shut me down quickly and never wanted to talk to me again. Some of the people who offered me real support was the ones you probably think are the great unwashed. The sad truth is that 1 out of every 4 children will be sexually molested by the age of 18. My rape was not a one time thing. It occurred over a period of 8 years over and over again. I guess I should be grateful that I managed to not get pregnant until I was 16. What ever happened to compassion? I thought that was the hallmark of christianity. One thing I have learned in my life is to not judge others even when I don’t agree with their life decisions. Until you’ve walked in my shoes you cannot judge. I don’t have to ask for God’s forgiveness because I did nothing wrong. I will go to my grave dealing with the scars from my childhood. It is people like you who make it hard to tell others about the abuse. And it’s out there,man. Remember, 1 in 4!!! But you probably think I’m making that up.One of you referred to women who get abortions as just being too lazy to take care of the child. Again those stereotypes keep women and children from telling.If you really want to help, find a child in trouble and take them under your wing. There were people who did that for me. I hope that what I have accomplished in my life is paying it forward. And for those of you who have no charity in your heart, screw YOU!!!
“As far as I know, Adolph Mengele Tiller is not a licensed Psychiatrist, so he shouldn’t even be diagnosing depression.”
Depression can be treated by any Doctor – they don’t have to be a psychiatrist. Depression is a medical condition.
And I’ll take the word of a medical professional long before I take the word of a layperson.
And no one said that abortion is a cure for depression – that is a cheap straw man argument.
There were 1100 rapes in Kansas in the same year there were over 5971 abortions. Of the 1100 rapes only 10 percent resulted in pregnancy.
I don’t think there is any need to show compassion on a statistic that shows otherwise.
I do show compassion for those who are the victim of rape and everything should be done to help them in any way.
However, I’m not getting onto a guilt trip when only 110 women out of 1100 actually got pregnant from rape. I have no statistics on what percentage of the over 5900 abortions were for rape. But if statistics are patterned out, the comparable curve would indicate that the statistic of rape instigated abortions is not that large.
Which means the bulk of the abortions are done for health issues either mother or child (note the word child) and/or the so-called frequent visitors to abortion clinics; prostitutes, promiscous women;other categories.
Brenda – “Illigitimum non carborundum” – don’t let the bastards wear you down.
Re: depression. I do not know the proceedure by which a person ends up getting an abortion but I would suspect that there are referrals from other doctors involved. If so, then the diagnosis might not even have been done by the surgeon.
I’d like to see us all take a fresh look at the whole situation. What kind of system (diagnosis etc) such that abortion is less likely to be the “solution” of choice? I think abortion sucks but I am “pro-choice.” As such, I have in a number of cases counseled against abortion and never for it.
I contribute to catholic Chrities; hopefully that also helps support alternatives. I suspect that if we spent as much energy on actually doing something as we do fighting about it we would decrease the incidence more.
Good comment, Ben. I am personally opposed to abortion, but I support a woman’s right to choose.
It’s not my choice to make.
Safe and rare is the right path for abortion rights.
That would include putting the same effort into prevention of unwanted pregnancies as some would put into the crusade against abortion.
The addition of outlander gives us three “pro life” posters here. And I’m sure there are others reading along.
Three is enough for a game. So let’s play.
I wave my magic wand of imagination…..poof!
Outie? JM? hmm sol.
Ya just got your wish. Abortion is now illegal. But it is up to you to enforce that.
It is day one of your new order. An 18 year old woman comes to you. She is 5 months pregnant. She was gonna get an abortion before this but didn’t have the money. She was going to have the procedure today. But of course now it is illegal.
She tells you that she is NOT going to go through with the pregnancy. She up front tells you that she will seek someone to help her and failing that she will do her very best to miscarry. You try everything to convince her but she aint changing her mind. She is going to end the pregnancy one way or the other.
Whatcha gonna do boys?
Be honest. This should be interesting.
Junior, you pose silly hypotheticals.
Silly? Highly probable, actually.
Prior to 1972, it happened all the time.
I never stated abortion should be illegal. My position is similar to Ben Huie’s, in that in should be the very last resort.
It seems that some like to make assumptions and can’t seem to figure out things so they make assumptions.
And if an 18 year old (an adult) came to me for consultatation on getting an abortion, I would direct her to a certified counselor. I am not a certified counselor and won’t give out such advice.
There are other alternatives to abortion and always has been.
Answer this question:
How many children born out of wedlock have been adopted or brought up to be healthy, prosperous human beings?
I think the answer is the back alley.
But, this where I would like to see a network of welcoming shelters where she might find both support and solace.
JM – simultaneous posts – and not far apart. Gerard House comes to mind.
Oops I posted that before I saw Brenda had weighed in.Suddenly I don’t feel so much like playing games. Although the answers I asked for would be interesting.
Ma’am? I am the one who sorta started this mess. And I am personally responsible for bringing your story to this thread. sol got under my skin and I did not like the way he treated you on that other thread. I wanted his own words to bust him and reveal him and I accomplished that. But if I have in any way added to your pain I am so very sorry. I would have written to you personally and not further aired things here but I can’t be sure of emails.
Again, if I have in any way hurt you I am sorry.
Posting here can get rough. Don’t let it put you off. I got your back anytime.
J R
I’ve got your back, too, Brenda.
As for J R, he’s a big boy and doesn’t need my help.
Wink.
Brenda,
I am extremely saddened that you stopped reading the posts. If you want to point your anger at me, I am strong enough to take it. But please read the non-negative that I wrote about you as well. I think that you have been touched by the Hand of God and hope that you read those posts as well.
As far as abortions by rape (especially incestuous rapes) the jury is still out in my mind. I haven’t come to an exceptional conclusion within myself to post a position. What I HAVE posted..
I admire your work. I am envious that you have found the path God has laid for you. I empathize with you the trauma you have been thru and am GREATLY gladdened by the work you now do. Touching people’s lives that have been thru your experiences… The ability to tell them “I’ve been there too” can have no compare. I implore you, please continue to help others.
I truly hope that you believe in God (from your posts I believe you do) I ask of you this… reach out to God about the abortion. In whatever way you worship Him, talk to Him about this.
Do I have all the answers? Not even close. I ask for guidance every day. What you do day to day will never compare to what I do. I hope to one day be able to reach others as you do.
I am as much a stranger to you as you are to me. I do, however, have enough of a sense of reality to see that you are God’s servant and serving Him to a much higher degree than I am. As far as abortion on wholesale, I am VERY against it. If I made you feel that I personally attacked you, please accept my apologies. The postings were mixed between general sweeping statements to yours.
Late term abortions and depression. I have lived with three clinically depressed women. I have lived with one emotionally unstable pregnant woman. I understand that pregnancy greatly changes a woman both chemically and physically.
What disgusts me is a doctor that will take advantage of a woman in a depressed state to suck the brain out of a completely viable child to take the money of an office visit.
That is absolutely disgusting and indefensible.
“What disgusts me is a doctor that will take advantage of a woman in a depressed state…..”
And why would a Doctor take advantage of a depressed woman so that he can perform an abortion?
Do you really think that ANY doctor gets a thrill from performing an abortion?
Abortion <— stupid topic
No one is going to change anyone’s opinion.
I believe that late term abortion due to a woman being depressed is in any terminology disgusting.
Abortion is never a stupid topic. the death of ANYONe is never stupid is it? When that death is by CHOICE?
let me rephrase…
No, abortion is not a stupid topic. Abortion is a stupid weblog topic.
The end.
Abortion becomes a stupid topic if you don’t have the cajones to take a position.
Maybe you are right KSGN, but a very polarizing topic. I’ve re-examined my stance several times over based on posts here. Maybe it just deserves its own thread to not encumber those not interested.
Sol – I think this is actually a topic better done face to face. There is a lot of pain involved and a need for a lot of compassion. I think that would happen better in person.
Ben, to a degree I agree. Ha. Poet and didn’t know it. Anyway. I would REALY enjoy meeting you folks at the meet up, but it would be too much of a trip at the wrong time. Hope y’all take full advantage.
It’s not that it’s not important.
It’s not that it’s not applicable.
It’s not that it’s not urgent.
It’s all of the above. But, on here, it’s redundant. No one is going to offer anything new. It’s a dead horse. Let’s move on.
real shame Brenda only shows up to sharp shoot.
Sol – I think the wounds are still sore; I can respect her feelings. I have the advantage of never really having been touched by the issue.
Sol, I’m fairly confident that “brenda” is a troll.
Yeah lets talk about those religious charity groups. Has anyone here ever tried to use one?
I’ll admit I did. Paying one bill a year is helpful yes, but it’s not enough to REALLY help. And after using it three times, in three years, you’re cut off.I don’t even know if they have those kind of charities in Wichita. But I will tell you that the secretary one asked me what church I was affiliated with, and when I told her none, she went off on me about having the “love” of a church family to help me through things. I said ’so, I should join a church so that I can use people?’
I remember one time when I was single mother and going to college, I lived in subsidized housing, and I didn’t have the 10 dollars that I needed to pay the rent. 10 dollars! There was nobody I could turn to.
I’d like to see charities align so that they get a donor ‘family’ with women/girls to help them ALONG the way. Not just once in awhile.
if you don’t like the discussion testicles, get off the forum.
And everyone thinks you’re a troll.
Who’s stalking whom?
Pregnancy is not a “disease” and abortion is not a “cure.”
If anyone is a troll golfnuts it’s you. How long are you gonna post this thread before creative new nics start showing up?
Better watch out numbnuts! The editors are watching. They are pulling troll posts. They have even referred to “persona non grata” and they may have meant you.
Junior,You’ve been saying that for a month, yet I’m still here. I don’t troll. I’m happy to say what I have to say without the need to fake it.
Political Mom,
Unfortunate circumstances you had from what you wrote. I guess no one bothered to show you the ropes on economic survival.
There are groups that will give you food if you do exchange work or even if you imply you do work that is socially helpful. They know people will lie about that and get food, but give the food anyway.
I’ve known plenty of people in your position and have found them receptionist jobs in churches where they could get a salary and do their homework if they weren’t busy.
I shown people how to deliver ‘penny power.’ It ain’t much, but it’s something in your pocket. People that have gone to college, I’ve shown how to get a job on campus that doesn’t conflict with their child-rearing responsibilities.
I’ve shown mothers of teenage children how to get their children to apply for the apprentice custodian jobs at their schools. It’s extra dollars for the family.
I’ve led some mothers to substitute teacher programs paid for by Kansas. They can pick and choose when they want to work. Usually good for those with at least two years of college. Apply at the school district building downtown.
And the love of a church does help. All of the churches I have belonged to have bent over backwards to help those in need. Some of the larger churches have tremendous programs in helping families with a single parent, including day care. They not only help out groceries, but will provide clothing for the children and school materials.
There are many avenues to take, you just have to know where to look.
When it becomes your turn to become ‘charitable’ you should return the favor. That’s how it works. Even if it’s a little thing, it fills what seems like a large void. Kindness begats kindness.
sol,
“the death of ANYONe is never stupid is it? When that death is by CHOICE?”
I wonder how many babies, children, and adults will die in the future, due to OUR failure to make the right CHOICEs today, re global warming?
* Famines caused by droughts, floods, more severe storms, etc.* Disruption of water supplies, due to higher evaporation, melting of glaciers in Nepal, etc.* Decreased ocean life (and food) due to less phytoplankton, coral bleaching, acidification, etc.
What will the future think about our priorities, and choices?
The future generations will definitely loathe America, since we comprise a paltry 0.3 percent of the world’s population yet emit 25% of the world’s greenhouse gasses.
JM,As I have stated in here multiple times, I spent about a year as the business manager for my church. We had people come to the church or call one of the pastors virtually every single day looking for something. The pastors has a discretionary fund that they could use. We made it a policy to never give cash. We’d have someone go shopping for food. If someone called with a broken down car and needed help, we’d find a church member that could go buy parts and help get them installed.
The stories I could tell…I don’t recall us EVER turning anyone away.
I suggested we do what Brazil is doing, but no, big business fucks are only concerned with maximizing their profits at the cost of the entire fucking planet.
The earth is warming – yes.
Man isn’t causing it. It’s a natural phenomenon. And man can’t stop it.
“I believe that late term abortion due to a woman being depressed is in any terminology disgusting.”
Just curious, but have you seen the actual documents that say this? And, if so, how were you able to see them?
I’d have to go back and listen to the exchange between Kline and O’Reilly, but I don’t remember hearing either of them specifically say that the only reason for the abortions mentioned was depression. They alluded to that, but did not come right out and say it.
Could it have been that depression was listed in the reports as a part of the diagnosis?
Is not giving the full truth a lie?
No that will piss off farmgirl and the Kansas Water Nazi’s.Why in a region that I guarantee within the next few years we’ll be talking about massive flooding in the spring and summer from T-storms you are worried about the lack of water to supply Ethanol plants is beyond me.But I will try to step out of that as it is a Kansas issue. I don’t have all the facts.
Ugh, concerning the definition of “health” in Roe v Wade, I invite you all to read up on Doe v Bolton as to what the SC refers to as “health.”
Bless you JM
golfer – man IS causing it. That has been conclusively shown.
http://www.wunderground.com/education/education.asp
ditto sol JM. I do not have the temperament for much of that so I just put in some OT at work and write a check. I think it combines well with those who do have the temperament to give time instead of treasure. And I do have to stand at least in part with JM that at least the ones I know about help regardless of te person’s religion etc. Lords Diner comes to mins as well as United Methodist and others.
JM, that was a long time ago before the work for food programs came into being. The 2nd time I attended college I did it while working 12 hour days on the weekends. 24 hours a week. I was exhausted but I did it for 20 months, and still have nothing to show for it except useless college credits and bills. By the way, I didn’t need money for food the first time, food stamps were plenty then. And I didn’t use mine to cash in for money.
The nicest people I came across were a lesbian couple I worked with. Once (not even related to me being in college) we had gotten our paychecks and I was balancing my checkbook, and I had 30 dollars after paying bills, we got paid once a month, and I hadn’t bought groceries. I was crying about it. That night, they came over with about 5 bags of groceries. I will never forget them for that. These are the same people shunned by many good ‘churchy’ folks.
Ben, for every study that shows man is responsible for global warming, there are two that show the opposite.
Clearly, the earth has gone through periods of warming and cooling for millions of years. There is evidence of glaciers that melted 10,000 years ago. Who caused that?
Au contraire, PeeMom.
My church welcomes people of all races, income levels, sexual orientations…
There are a few Terry Foxes out there…but churches like mine far outnumber them.
Testicles, I would NEVER ever expect a church group to give out cash. That would be stupid.
Vouchers, direct payments, yes. I like what your church did, that was very good.
Hey when will the WE board editors give us our credit for being named Time’s Person of the Year? I think that’s so neat!
I’d like to thank the academy…
It’s called the Milankovitch cycle. It has been studied in detail. And your statement “for every study that shows man is responsible for global warming, there are two that show the opposite.” is simply false.
I recommend the link I posted and then follow the links therein. I also recommend a good paleoclimatology course. Perhaps WSU will re-offer the good one they had a couple of years ago as a graduate course in the Geology department.
here;s a link for ya
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1744354/posts
For all of you liberal bloggers, I must cheerfully inform you all that Red and Green colors are no longer considered “politically correct.” The new colors that represent the holiday season are Blue and White. All santa clauses must be clad in blue costumes instead of the traditional red in order to be considered “politically correct.” The roof light colors of the Empire State building which have been Green and Red during the Christmas season have now been changed to Blue and White. Thank you, and I wish you all, a Merry… uh, Happy, uh… Politically Correct Remembrance Day.
I’ve got no beef with the Methodists, I think I even told you I got married in a Methodist church. It’s one of the few Churches that I’d step foot into.
I just think you belong with the judgemental evangelicals. They’re the ones who love money as much as you do.
Mom I think you are mistaking Evangelicals vs. Fundamentalists.There is a difference.
Peemom,You’ve had a hard life. When are you gonna stop blaming Christians for your problems?
You’re right Kia, Catholics, and many others can be fundamentalists too.
Pee, you don’t pay attention. I’m pro-choice, remember?
HHAHAA.
Maybe brenda is a troll. Shame to post such a tragic story just to be a troll
Oh well, I still have my red and green.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I don’t blame Christians for anything that has happened to me (well except when I was a JW, but that’s not even an issue anymore).
I just want ya’ll to realize that life is far more complicated than you make it seem. The hypocricy that you spew is unbelieveable.
Hell I have it GOOD compared to some. It just makes me mad that you all think everything will be cured by a belief in Jesus.
My definition is pretty much anyone that is going to point out a splinter in your eye when they have a log in their own = Fundamentalist.
Showing grace and forgiveness and trying to portray or give out the love of Christ = Evangelical
Hahahaha!
There was once a point in time when Catholic fundamentalism was considered the social norm. I wonder what the future generations will think a “fundamentalist” will look like? Probably a Democrat.
BRENDA, redeem yourself…. PLEASE !!!!!
Well don’t you think by a belief in Jesus, pursuing a relationship with Him and ultimately attempting to and growing to be more like Him the world would be a better place?
I know who the troll is.
…and Im not telling any of you.
Crusader is the troll !!!!
I know who it isn’t.
Heading ‘down’ for the night … don’t think Brebda is a troll, her story rings too true. Don’t think it is p-mom, JM, sol either.
Sometime tomorrow, till then Merry Christmas to all.
Depends, Kia. If you need something to believe in to make you do good things, by all means. If it helps some people change their lives from criminals, go for it. If it’s used to be pricks to others, no thanks.
Will, why would you not tell if you know who the troll is?Friend of yours?
If it’s used to be pricks to others, no thanks.Posted by: political_mom | December 18, 2006 at 10:57 PM
Well I will take this as a Yes.I don’t recall the Son of Man being a prick to anyone ;-)
Political Mom,
Everything is not cured by a belief in Jesus.
Man is still imperfect and there is still going to be sin in the world.
I believe your life will be more fulfilled and your eternity will be EXTREMELY more secure with faith in Christ.
Ultimately, my belief in Christ has nothing to do with how it will better me. It is about my love for Christ and wanting to follow him for what he has already done for me.
Yikes, I see that peemom and golfnutz are still going at it, oh well.
It also looks like “CrusaderX” is back, very curious.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Ben,http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article2062484.ece
A United Nations report has identified the world’s rapidly growing herds of cattle as the greatest threat to the climate, forests and wildlife. And they are blamed for a host of other environmental crimes, from acid rain to the introduction of alien species, from producing deserts to creating dead zones in the oceans, from poisoning rivers and drinking water to destroying coral reefs…….
KSGolfnut,
The folks over at PETA are probably jumping on this including all those activist I love animals vegitarians.
golfnuts,
“Man isn’t causing it. It’s a natural phenomenon.”
Sorry… you only get 1/2 credit for that.We humans STUPIDLY released into our atmosphere huge amounts huge amounts of carbon that *WAS* SAFELY stored underground.
And now… your “natural phenomenon”, aka the greenhouse effect, is warming our one and only Earth.
Other “natural phenomenons” are standing by, to possibly cause an even FASTER warming — less ice and snow, huge amounts of methane, etc from thawing permafrost, and reduced ocean absorption of CO2 due to less phytoplankton.
No one has answered…
Who do we blame for the melting of glaciers 10k years ago?
Health insurance costs in Kansas rises five times faster than incomesLAWRENCE, Kansas, Dec. 18, 2006 (AP) — A health care advocates’ group says the cost of health insurance in Kansas is rising nearly five times faster than the typical household paycheck.
The report by Families USA says median wages in Kansas rose a little less than 16% from 2000 to 2006. During that same time period, premiums for employer-sponsored family health insurance skyrocketed more than 78%.
The group notes other factors — most families’ health insurance now offers fewer benefits than in the past, with higher out-of-pocket costs.
The report says the trend threatens to force a growing number of Kansans into the ranks of the uninsured.
Looks like sol is waiting for forgiveness from Brenda.
Sol, could be she has better things to do than be insulted.
golfnuts,
HELLO…? Ben answered that in his 10:41 PM post
Nathan,
GHG’s caused by raising livestock is a very old, well-known issue.
golfnuts is clueless, and doesn’t even realize that “humans” are the reason for “rapidly growing herds of cattle”.
btw: methane fades away in a few years, but CO2 can take up to a century.
Cosmos,Can you not read?
Ben’s 10:41 post said “It’s called the Milankovitch cycle. It has been studied in detail.” That’s it.
Milankovitch is nothing more than a theory. No proof. And it suggests a 100,000 year cycle. In fact, “The Milankovitch theory of climate change is not perfectly worked out; in particular, the largest response is at the 100,000 year timescale, but the forcing is apparently small at this scale, in regards to the ice ages, Various feedbacks (from carbon dioxide, or from ice sheet dynamics) are invoked to explain this discrepancy.”
Try again…
And, wouldn’t that be a “natural phenomenon”?
Cosmos,
I know it had been aroud for a while. I was just being sarcastic.
One of those little details the Chiken Littles love to leave out of their apocalytic doomsday preaching on Global warming is just how much of the treacherous CO2 we are contributing to the atmosphere verses what is already there and produced by nature.
Woops, on that one huh?
The Reich Wing said that Saddam had WMD’s and that we had to stop this imminent threat and it’d be a cakewalk.
The sentient beings said we already tried that in Vietnam and failed.
The Reich Wing said that tax breaks for the rich would “stimulate the economy so much” that it would raise tax revenues.
The sentient beings said that Reagan already tried it and it failed then.
Check the national debt–post war high, higher than Reagan, higher than Bush I.
Oh, and the dollar is in free fall against the Euro and the Pound. The Chinese holding our bonds are taking a pounding. How long are they going to be stupid?
The Reich Wing said that the American people would continue to support Worst President Ever in November’s election.
The sentient beings accurately predicted that the RepubliCONS were going to get utterly repudiated.
NOW the Reich Wing says that catastrophic global warming is just a “theory.”
Heh, yup, like the theory of atomic structure which says that matter is composed of more space than mass. Yet when that piano falls from the seventh story and lands on your parked car, it’s awfully hard to believe that theory, even though it is accurate.
Take it from us sentient beings, Reich Wingers. You’ve been wrong about everything for the last six years.
Your side is batting .000.
Even if the “theory” is too complicated for you to grasp–and I understand that voting Republican is easier than thinking–trust your intellectual superiors.
Reich Wing, my ass! These neo-CON vermin are kosher trotskyites!
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
This page present multiple arguments regarding the cause of global warming:
http://www.ees.nmt.edu/~ranck/hot.html
Point is: no one really knows. The earth clearly warms and cools on its own (that would be those natural phenomina). Just last week, the UN (thanks to it’s own studies) acknowledged that man is far less responsible for warming than previously thought.
And, of course I’m aware that the increase in cattle populations are thanks to man. If you weren’t so busy spewing insults…
Man has been trying for centuries to control the weather. And we still can’t – yet we’re responsible for global climate change? That’s a laugher.
Yup, GoofNut, you’re right and all those climate scientists and researchers and Nobel prize winners and the signers of the Kyoto treaty?
They don’t know nearly as much as you and Hank Price and Sollie.
The not so witty argument when you don’t actually want to try to defend your stance:
More people beleive what I do…
Yep, all those great people who thought the world was flat were right too…
“Milankovitch is nothing more than a theory. No proof.”
A guide to reading posts: when someone equates a scientific theory with the colloquial use of the word “theory” – it is a dead give-away that they are talking out of their ass.
It is the reader’s cue to “scroll on past”.
This clue brought to you by the thinking/reality-based community.
Carry on…
Does anybody think that there won’t be regional nuclear exchange somewhere in the world in the next decade or so?
Correct, Steven.
The Milankovitch theory is a theory the way the Pythagorean theory is a theory–it’s been proven over and over again, it’s used to build missiles and skyscrapers, but because not every conceivable triangle can be tested, it remains a “theory.”
Actually, Nathan, the highly vaunted “earth is flat” idea was never universally believed.
Wikipedia has a good article on it:
Eratosthenes, however, had already calculated that the earth was a sphere as well as its rough circumference by the third century B.C. [3] (He did this by measuring the shadow cast of a tall rod in two distant locations.)
By the time of Pliny the Elder in the 1st century, however, the Earth’s spherical shape was generally acknowledged among the learned in the western world. Around then Ptolemy derived his maps from a curved globe and developed the system of latitude, longitude, and climes. His writings remained the basis of European astronomy throughout the Middle Ages, although Late Antiquity and the Early Middle Ages (ca. 3rd to 7th centuries) saw occasional arguments in favor of a flat Earth. The modern misconception that people of the Middle Ages believed that the Earth was flat first entered the popular imagination in the nineteenth century.
End quote.
Columbus too saw the masts of sailing vessels come up over the horizon which clearly showed a round earth.
As for your contention that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that is just sad. Not only does the Bible not support that, common sense doesn’t support it.
Here’s more of the fundamentalist right-wing nuttiness:
You have to go to a foreign source to even find out about how willingly ignorant Americans are getting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6216788.stm
The museum’s aim is to bring Genesis – the first book of the Bible – to life for all ages, and promote the belief that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old.
Creationists believe humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time
Everybody who works at the museum has to sign on to the belief that the living Earth was created in six 24-hour days – rejecting the convention most scientists view as fact, that life evolved slowly over millions of years.
To hammer that point home, two smiling children clad in tasteful animal skins, work and play alongside a pair of baby Tyrannosaurus Rex.
“You go to some of the major museums and dinosaurs are their teaching icon,” said Mr Looy.
“We’re going to turn that on its head, and use dinosaurs to show that the Bible presents the true history of the world. We have people, and dinosaurs, together.”
. . . .
“It’s foundational. If you can’t believe Genesis, then why believe any other part of the Bible?
“You can’t pick and choose, you can’t say this part is right, and this part is wrong,” she said, halfway through supervising an online tutorial in her office.
*****
And since fundamentalists don’t “pick and choose,” I’d really like to buy somebody’s daughter.
And I think I’ll get a couple of wives like one of those Old Testament patriarchs too.
Although I’ve already condemned myself to hell for trimming my beard which is of course an abomination . . .
And in Leviticus we are commanded to eat the flesh of our offspring.How much for the women?
Tracy,
Where in leviticus are we commanded to eat the flesh of our offspring?
CapnAmerica,
If you would like to continue our discussion from last time I am more than game.
If I recall I ended it with showing you how you were wrong about Genesis being in unity with Evolution.
capt, are they putting this museum in wild west world lol
Leviticus 26:29 (King James version)
29)And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
“…I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.”
Even the Bible talks about a flat earth–a disk held up by columns.
describing a punishment is FAR from commanding you to eat your kids….
23And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
28Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
TRACY….
Lev 26:29 is NOT a command, it is a punishment to those who disobey.
RD….
The Bible also talks about the “circle of the earth”.
Context is King.. I learned that in literature class….
You guys beat me to it.
I had to switch computers. The other one blocked this site because it is a blog.
kansassam, does that mean the Bible contradicts itself?
RD,
The Bible doesn’t contradict it’s self.
Do you have the verse which shows the contradiction?
Nathan,
Refer to my previous comment and kansassam’s reply.
no…. tell me the exact reference and I will study it.
I think he is refering to…
Even the Bible talks about a flat earth–a disk held up by columns.
and
The Bible also talks about the “circle of the earth”.
Thats all fine and dandy…
I need a verse, not you saying you think the Bible mentioned…
The Bible mentions alot.
Could you narrow it down a bit for me?
Exactly.. and I am saying that those who choose can make the Bible say anything they want by taking words out of context.
Contradiction…..
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Yeah I went back and looked at it and it’s not a command.
However the bible does contradict itself in many places,sometimes the same author:
John 3:22After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.John 4:2Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples.
I could dredge of lots of contradictions.For instance, what ARE the seven last words of Christ?
Contradiction…. the death of Judas…
“And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself.” (Matt. 27:5)
“And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)
Contradiction…. two creation stories…
Genesis 1
Day 1: Sky, Earth, lightDay 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the skyDay 3: PlantsDay 4: Sun, Moon, starsDay 5: Sea monsters, fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawliesDay 6: HumansDay 7: He rested
Genesis 2
Earth and heavensAdam, the first manPlantsAnimalsEve, the first woman, from Adam’s rib.
WSClark,
There is no contradiction in Exodus and Romans.
I am a man of peace and guess what? Here I am a Marine warrior.
Your own narrow view on what a warrior is and what being of peace means is the only conflict.
All right, Nathan, you can break that one down to semantics…
What about creation? If the Bible is the literal truth as dictated by God, wouldn’t it be logical that He would remember the order of creation?
2 Samuel 23:6The … chief among the captains … he lift up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time.
1 Chronicles 11:11the chief of the captains: he lifted up his spear against three hundred slain by him at one time.
Nathan…
They are going to quote the entire atheist website to us… why don’t you guys just post a link? They choose to take a beautiful picture of love and try to stain it with simple words. It is not worth the effort to refute every single verse taken out of context. They do not love God.. He will NOT reveal His Word to them. They will never be satisfied.
Hebrews 11:17By faith Abraham when he was tried, offered up Isaac, … his only begotten son.
Genesis 22:2Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, … and offer him there for a burnt offering. Genesis 16:15And Hagar bare Abraham a son: and Abram called his son’s name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Genesis 21:2-3For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son is his old age …. And Abraham called him Isaac.
Genesis 25:1-2Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
Galatians 4:22Abraham had two sons; the one by a bond-woman, and the other by a free woman.
Sorry, Nathan, I’m working today and don’t have time for looking up Bible passages. But I know I’ve read the one about the flat earth held up (supported) by columns. In fact, I’ve seen drawings of it. I promise to look for them when I can.
Sammy, I do not use atheist anything.Don’t judge me,or say who or what I love.
Not your job, pal.And damned un-Christ-like too.Go pray for forgiveness.
“They will never be satisfied.”
Nonsense.
First, as I have posted before, I am not an atheist. I believe in God, I just left Christianity about twenty years ago.
Second, it is you folks that claim that there are no contradictions in the Bible. The fact is there are thousands of contradictions because the Bible was written and edited by man.
Third, it is you folks that tell others that they have to live by the word of the Bible, but choose to ignore the contradictions.
“They do not love God”
Bull stuff – I just don’t love YOUR version of God.
And an over-all message of love is what I get from the bible.If I accept christ then everything else is up for debate?Does it matter if I point out contradictions?Does that make me unchristian?NO!It means I have free will to investigate all I want.And yes I get sick of others who try to shove their particular dogma as the only correct one.Pretty darn conceited.
kansassam,
There would be no need for citing contradictions if there weren’t any. If you feel it’s best for you to choose which of two (or even three) you prefer to believe, that’s okay with me.
The problem is that not everyone accepts things without question. For one thing, God did not write the Bible. Men (of faith?) did. Is it God’s Word? Maybe. If so, was God telling different stories to different men? Because those contradictions are there, not only between the OT and NT (I understand the reason for that), but within one book in a few instances.
Those contradictions appear to weaken arguments. That’s only my opinion, of course, and you have every right to disagree and to your opinion, just as I (and others) have the right. None of which means we’re anti-Christian or anything else.
WSC, I haven’t left anything.I just choose to use good common sense in religion.
You are right WSClark.. you do not love my God… you don’t even know my God.
You are correct though that God’s Word is infallible, but the men inspired to copy it down were fallible. There are explanations if you seek them, but you choose to look for errors so you do not have to obey.
I did not tell you you have to live by the Bible… that is between you and God… I have nothing to do with your choice.
Thanks RD.I don’t feeeeeel eeeeeville!
The old dietary shibboleths would be an obvious place to start.
The fundies rationalize our eating pork etc. because the new testament superceeds the old one.
In other words, the old one was wrong.
sammy, why do you feel the need to talk down to others, like you’re god is good and mine is bad?lighten up pal,MY god has a sense of humor!
TRACY….
you yourself told me you only read the red letters… you DO use a common sense approach, but I don’t always agree with your conclusions. That’s OK.. we all have to find our own way
BTW.. I pray for forgiveness every day.. you should too.
TRACY…
I’m not talking down to you.. I’m sorry if you felt that way..
This is how I choose to live my life everyday…….. Not always successful, but I try, which is more than I can say for a lot of fundamentalists.
On the last day, Jesus will say to those on His right hand, “Come, enter the Kingdom. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and you visited me.” Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, “Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me to drink, I was sick and you did not visit me.” These will ask Him, “When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?” And Jesus will answer them, “Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!”
And there is no contradiction in that….
Lev. 25:45-46 “Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy…and they shall be your posession…they shall be your bondmen forever.”
I’m telling you I could use some slaves around the place. I’m going to down to Broadway and get me some Asians or Mexicans.
Hey, it’s in the Bible.
Nathan,
“…is just how much of the treacherous CO2 we are contributing to the atmosphere verses what is already there and produced by nature.”
CO2 emmissions we contribute are easy to estimate — just add amounts caused by coal, oil, wood, etc we burn.
http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/03/co2-rise-is-natural.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Global_Carbon_Emission_by_Type.png
Or… perhaps you mean the bogus volcano myth?http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/02/volcanos-emit-more-co2.htmlor this?http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/03/natural-emissions-dwarf-humans.html
We can also estimate the reduction of CO2 absorption we’ve caused by deforestation, land use changes, etc.
Pre-Industrial Age, CO2 = 280 ppmToday, CO2 > 380 ppm — HIGHER than previous 650,000 years. And it’s climbing…
The Red letters give me the real scoop.They leave me with the real message of our religion.I am pretty familiar with the rest of it, but do get impatient with people who want to tout the bible as literal history.Some of it is,most of it, not so much.
Sam, you win.I was not wearing my religion with humility and humbleness.sorry
Did anyone see that Operation Rescue awarded Phill Kline some kind of honorary award like ‘person of the year’? If that doesn’t say he’s a whackjob, I do not know what does.
Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)
Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people.
Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Ex 33:11
No man hath seen God at any time.John 1:18
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.Gen 22:1
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. James 1:13
Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. 2 Sam 6:23
The five sons of Michel the daughter of Saul, whom she bare for Adriel. 2 Sam 21:8
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. Prov 3:13
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccles 1:18
And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11
No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, … the Son of Man. John 3:13
Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. Acts 1:18
And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter’s field. Matt 27:5-7
TRACY and WS..
Neither was I Tracy.. I just believe in seeking answers and trying to bear a little fruit.
WS.. that is definately the most important thing.. sorry, I spent months on an atheist website refuting or explaining “differences” in the Bible… in the end it just didn’t matter. I was not calling YOU or TRACY an atheist.. I’m just tired and not expressing myself very well today. I’ll go back to trying to be a sheep instead of a goat now.Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
Merry Christmas, Sam, peace be with you…
golfnuts,
“the UN (thanks to it’s own studies) acknowledged that man is far less responsible for warming than previously thought.”
MISQUOTE.They said that the “EFFECT” is less, due to unexpected cooling caused by the aerosols we emit, and the ocean’s heat absorbtion.
We are still “responsible”, but the actual impact is temporarily delayed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/10/nclimate10.xml“It also says that the overall human EFFECT on global warming since the industrial revolution is less than had been thought, due to the unexpected levels of cooling caused by aerosol sprays, which reflect heat from the sun.
Large amounts of heat have been absorbed by the oceans, masking the warming effect.
Prof Rick Battarbee, the director of the Environmental Change Research Centre at University College London, warned these masking effects had helped to DELAY global warming but would lead to LARGER changes in the future.”—
golfnuts? Are you STILL UNABLE to understand the simple difference between weather and climate?
SAM, WSC, CAPN, RD.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13If I speak in the tongues of men and angels,but have not love,I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol.
And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge,and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,but have not love, I am nothing.
And if I dole out all my goods, andif I deliver my body that I may boastbut have not love, nothing I am profited.
Love is long suffering,love is kind,it is not jealous,love does not boast,it is not inflated.
It is not discourteous,it is not selfish,it is not irritable,it does not enumerate the evil.It does not rejoice over the wrong, but rejoices in the truth
It covers all things,it has faith for all things,it hopes in all things,it endures in all things.
Love never falls in ruins;but whether prophecies, they will be abolished; ortongues, they will cease; orknowledge, it will be superseded.
For we know in part and we prophecy in part.
But when the perfect comes, the imperfect will be superseded.
When I was an infant,I spoke as an infant,I reckoned as an infant;when I became [an adult],I abolished the things of the infant.
For now we see through a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know as also I was fully known.
But now remainsfaith, hope, love,these three;but the greatest of these is love.
NUFF’ SAID.
Yup, I’m not trying to make anyone question their faith.
I’m just trying to open their eyes to the recognition that the Bible’s purpose is not a science book or a history book.
It is to justify the ways of God to men, to quote Milton . . .
KIA,”I think you are mistaking Evangelicals vs. Fundamentalists.There is a difference.”
There’s a difference if you’re evangelical or fundamentalist. If you’re neither, there’s no difference at all!
TRACY: I’m glad that you decided to expand your horizons beyond the “red letters”.
Beautiful verse, Tracy.
So I’m a “troll?” I don’t know what that means but I’m sure it’s a negative comment.Sol,My feelings no longer get hurt by this subject. You think I just show up to sharp shoot? I work all day and only get to play at night. You guys get to have these endless dialogues. I know there is no way that either of us will change our minds about where we stand. I actually think it is sad that we can’t find some middle of the road. I think most people are someplace in the middle. Most people think there should be some restrictions on 3rd trimester abortions but that it should be legal and that the decision belongs between the woman and her physician. I am not Tiller’s spokesperson but he serves those who need him. What I truly resent is those who stereotype what they don’t like such as calling women who get abortions “prostitutes, sluts,”ect. rather than seeing them as humans whose choices you might disagree with. As political mom said the people who was there for me were those that you guys dismiss. I think it had something to do with walking a mile in my shoes.Yes I agree that I help people now. I work with the “throwaway”people. Right now it is the elderly. Even there I find women who have been abused. It is an age old ugly problem. I’m sorry there is so little compassion but I will continue to do what I do because it is the right thing.
Brenda. Glad you have grown a callous over this. What you did, the abortion, I am still undecided. What that means to you? Precisely shit. Understood. My opinion doesn’t add up to dry shit to you.
Was your pregnancy due to incest? If so, then, in my eyes, though not my wife’s , you had not much choice.
My issue, should you care or not, is the complacency that the majority of abortions occur under. Say what you will, but MOST occur under the decision of convenience over responsibility.
Say what you will. There is no and never will be accurate statistics on abortion. I give you 95% of abortions are due to “A baby does not fit into my life right now.” If you support that kind of decision, then I don’t envy you your eternal suffering.
In the rarest of rare cases, such as yours? MAYBE 1% of abortions. Terminating a 3rd trimester babies because the mother is ‘Depressed’? I want to puke that a mother OR a doctor would even consider this.
The pro choicers are all about woman’s body, woman’s choice. Shit, I told Pol_Mom I’d stop, but I can’t. This is the most disgusting thing I can think of happening in the US today. Quick convenient disposal of a human to avoid responsibility. There is nothing as vehemently disgusting as this.
So, if a woman feels trapped, and so depressed that her only way out feels like suicide, you’re just ok with that Sol?
Yeah that’s pro-life, two lives dead instead of one.
When you fix all the world’s problems so there is no need for abortion, then you can come talk to me. Till then, you’re right, your opinion is dry shit.
By the way, the highest reason women had abortions, was because they could not afford a baby. Not just because they didn’t want to. And usually, it’s not one reason.
WSclark,
“What about creation? If the Bible is the literal truth as dictated by God, wouldn’t it be logical that He would remember the order of creation?”
Explanation of supposed contradiction:
1. Chapter 1 tells the entire story in the order it happened.
2. Gen. 2:4-6 gives a quick summary of the first five days of creation.
3. Gen. 2:7-25 is describing only the events that took place on day 6 in the Garden of Eden.
The trees described in Genesis 2:8 are only in the Garden (the rest of the world is already full of trees from day 3). The purpose of this second creation of trees may have been to let Adam see that God did have power to create, that He was not just taking credit for the existing world. Notice that the second creation of trees was still on day 6 and was only those trees that are “pleasant to the sight and good for food.”
The birds created out of the ground on day 6 are only one of each “kind” so that Adam can name them and select a wife. The rest of the world is full of birds from day 5.
Genesis 2:19 is describing only the animals created in the Garden, after man. The purpose of this second batch of animals being created was so that Adam could name them (Gen. 2:19) and select a wife (Gen. 2:20). Adam, not finding a suitable one (God knew he wouldn’t), God made Eve (Gen. 2:21-22).
There are no contradictions between these two chapters.
Chapter 2 only describes in more detail the events in the Garden of Eden on day 6. If ancient man had written the Bible (as some scoffers say), he would never have made it say that the light was made before the sun! Many ancient cultures worshiped the sun as the source of life. God is light. God made the light before He made the sun so we could see that He (not the sun) is the source of life.
WSClark,
There is no contradiction between John 3:22 and John 4:2.
One is in Judea the other is in Galilee.
How many contradictions do you want me to post, Nathan, before you admit that the Bible is not infallable?
There are 47,000 known contradictions, so this could take a while.
BTW – I am not buying your explanations – they are clear contradictions.
WSClark,
There is no contradiction between Acts and Matthew concerning Judas either.
If you read all of the verses in Matthew you will see the similarities. Simply because it is not described in as much detail in Matthew as it is in Acts is not a contradiction.
Try reading the entire context.
WSClark,
You don’t have to buy them. They are right in front of your face.
If you choose to be willfully ignorant that is on you, not me.
I can go all day long showing how you are wrong. Especially if this is the best you can do.
Tracy,
You are going to have to be a bit more specific with your contradictions conerning Abrahams children.
I don’t see the contradictions there.
“There is no contradiction between Acts and Matthew concerning Judas either.”
I guess that hanging one’s self and having your bowels smashed out on a rock are roughly the same…..
Tracy,
You will need to figure out what verse you are talking about. I dont see where 2 Samuel 23:6 says what you say it does.
Belief in god is no more relevant than belief in Santa Clause.
WSClark,
Again, one is more descriptive of what happened than the other.
Both refernce the same scripture speaking of the field being named the field of blood after.
No contradiction.
JR,
Relevant is the key word there JR.
It is too bad you think that way.
Junior has made the God/Santa comparison about a half-dozen times over the past couple of days.
He who has little to say often repeats it.
Uh no “nuts” this is the first time here lately. It is a valid comparison.
Hmmmm…….
Nathan has been known to troll….
And here is golfnuts also.
Hmmmmm.
Nathan if you are not golfnuts you really wanna distance yourself from that guy.
Naw, Nathan isn’t Nutz, Golf Nutz is stalking me now that P Mom isn’t available.
Nathan is pretty much a good guy and I respect his position, even though I do not agree with it.
Golf Nutz is just plain crazy.
Clarkie, I left you alone over on that other thread. Clearly you followed me over here.
Who is stalking whom?
JR,
I barely have enough time to post myself let alone troll…
Let’s see, Nutz – I posted at 11:52. you posted at 12:16.
Jeez, by my watch you posted AFTER me.
Huh?
Do you run your “business” like that?
Clarkie, are you this stupid in real life? I didn’t respond to any of your posts until you addressed me. I couldn’t have cared less about your 11.52 post.
Now I can see why you’re no longer in business. There are lots of folks like you.
I said that you were stalking me – i.e., you were following me from thread to thread.
As for business – I am retired from a major corporation.
BTW – Are you ever going to tell us what your “business” is, or are you going to continue to pretend?
umm, Clarkie – You’re not very bright, are you?
Typing on the same thread but not addressing you – is not stalking.
Retired? or fired?
And I’ve told all about my business. I’m not going to give you the name of the company.
CapnAmerica,
Lets look at the verses you posted:
Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people.
No contradictions here either. It that “he SHOULD repent.”Should is the key word. It doesn’t say that God can’t or wont repent. It says that God doesn’t have to like the son of man.
Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
Where are you getting your verses from? Mine says the son will not bear the punishment for the iniquity of the father.Yet again, no contradiction.
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)
What does creating peace and evil have to do with being good to all? You see a contradiction where there is none.
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend. Ex 33:11No man hath seen God at any time.John 1:18
Where is the contradiction? No one has seen the Lord in all his glory. God has chosen to reveal himself to people in different forms, doesn’t mean they have really seen the Lord.And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham.Gen 22:1Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. James 1:13
Again, which version are you using. I am checking mine and the word used in Gen 22:1 is tested not tempted.
Like I said, I can do this all day long.
Keep posting your “contradictions” and I will show you the truth.
“umm, Clarkie – You’re not very bright, are you?”
Not very bright? Well, Nutz, your game seems to be mostly stalking P Mom over some past slight. Maybe she turned you down or maybe you couldn’t get it up. Regardless, you seem to either stalk or troll, after you have tried to pass yourself off as being some superior being.
Now, I know that you are going to scream foul because you claim not to be the troll-monster, but the evidence is there.
I just have to wonder, in all seriousness, why do you think that you have to take this “I am better than everyone else” approach to life.
Are you that insecure that you have to pretend to be better than everyone else?
That look in the mirror while shaving in the morning must be a real bitch for you.
It’s okay, Golfnut, you can be a normal person and the world won’t think less of you for it.
BTW – I took an early retirement when the plant was shut down so that I could pursue my love of writing.
I’ll type slow, Clarkie – just in hopes that you’ll somehow absorb…
I couldn’t care less about Pee. She claims “STALKER” just like you did – when in fact, she spends far more time chasing down my posts just to comment. Oh wait, isn’t that why we’re here? To comment? Why is it that *I* never claim “STALKER”? Because I’m above all that? Because I ‘get it’ that these are just words on a screen and there really IS no stalking?
I didn’t think I’d have to spell it out like this for you, Clarkie, but clearly, you left me no alternative.
Show me one post where I’ve claimed to be some “superior being”, Clarkie. I just post my thoughts and observations. The real problem? -Your insecurity. Think on that one, Clarkie.
You can tell your ‘early retirement’ story or your ‘years of business’ story all you want, Clarkie, and I’m likely not even going to challenge it. But when you make idiotic statements like you did on the ROI – yep, I’m gonna have to set you straight. =)
It’s just a service I provide. No charge to you, sir.
PS – when you respond to this (we both know you will), I’ll be sound asleep. Happy writing, Clarkie.
“Your insecurity. Think on that one, Clarkie.”
You are funny dude, Golf Nut. I am one happy, secure fellow. I have my kids, my career, my bike, my grandchildren and my life. I only amuse myself by zapping you and your ilk.
As for you “setting me straight” – that is funny also. Karma comes around, Golfie, and it’s a bitch when it kicks your ass.
BTW – It is a little to late this evening to set me straight – I have already hit the doobie one too many times for that….
You are funny, Golf, just like Stephen Colbert. You are just a bad parody of life in the suburbs.
Just for S & G, why do you stalk P Mom and why do you get so irate when she slaps you down? She seems to get the best of you everyday. She seems to have your ticket, dude!
Sweet dreams about P Mom, Golfie. I know you are sleeping soundly with pleasant visions in your head!
Sorry P Mom, but this guy seems to have a real crush on you.
It’s a little like Jr. High School for him.
“I’ll type slow, Clarkie – just in hopes that you’ll somehow absorb…”
By the way, Golfie, that’s my line and you now owe me royalties.
Pay up, sucker!
“…I have already hit the doobie one too many times…”
’nuff said.
So much for all those contradictions…
Agreed, Nathan. It’s impossible for me to take a dope smoker seriously anyway.
“Like I said, I can do this all day long.
Keep posting your “contradictions” and I will show you the truth.”
You think you’re doing well?
Well like Rosanne Rosanna Danna used to say, it’s always something. Anyone determined to explain away something can do it, so I am sure you can “keep this up all day long”. Doesn’t mean that you are actually refuting anything. You’re just demonstrating that you can explain away anything.
Sol,Yes, my pregnancy was due to incest. What you don’t seem to realize that next to nothing is done with these kind of offenders. Actually they are treated as being different that pedophiles because somehow it is more acceptable or less sick to molest your own child or relative. I have an uncle in my family that molested my mother, myself and at least 5 of my cousins. Yet he was protected by the family and the information was kept secret from one generation to another until I blew the whistle. The whole family was angry at me and he was a minister so he was truly a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I told my mom and nothing happened. So when it happened again I never told. Why? Because I learned that everyone would blame me. As I have gotten older I have seen this dynamic repeated with others. I can’t let it go because I know that most folks find this so distastful they would rather look the other way. But until we deal with this ugly thing we will continue to have problems and abortion will never go away. Whether you believe it or not I do wish they were not necessary. I would rather live in a world where we all took care of each other and were tolerant of each other.
“…I have already hit the doobie one too many times…”
What? And you have never smoked dope, Nutz?
BTW – Studies have shown that it is far less harmful than alcohol.
I have a couple grams if you want to stop by for a toke….
KSagnostic,
If all I am doing is explaining away things it appears that I am doing a pretty good job of it with out much in response so far.
Oh well.
And here I thought there were THOUSANDS of these so called contradictions.
One last shot Brenda, if you read this, your uncle needs his ‘daddy parts’ burned off slowly. My ex-wife’s dad orally molested his step-grand daughter. His wife was watching her daughter’s daughter while the mom worked. We got a phone call from the mother of the molested child. Nothing happened. No, understand this, NOTHING HAPPENED. The mother continued to drop her daughter off each day. I wanted to puke and I threatened to blow the whistle. I was immediately ganged up on – no excuse – to not. I contacted an attorney, and with out proof, it would be all for naught.
So where do you go forward with this? You are most closely tied with this. How can it be stopped?