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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Dec. 2, 2006 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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68 Comments
The “open” forum was introduced in March 2005.
Wichita State University becomes Wichita Shockers University
Agree or disagree?
In years sooner than you might think.
if people would follow Gods path there would be no crime divorce etc etc etc comeon!!!
Jeremy that is not really true, as we are born in sin and can never truly be sin free. In a sense, without sin there is no God. For without sin there would be no need for God.
Sin is a human condition, nothing else in creation know or has sin therefore we will always have sin.“All fall short of the glory of God”, that is why God is so forgiving and why Christ died on the cross.If your theory was true than these things would not be happening in many Christians lives. Certainly following the teachings of Christ and making the effort to follow God’s Path helps one in their daily fighting of our sinful ways. But there will always be sin in our lives, we are just sinful beings. There is another meaning to man being God’s special creation.
Small problem with your thought, Jeremy. Who’s “God” should people follow? The one you beleive in? The Allah of the radical Muslims who kill in his name? The vengefull one of the sick cult in Topeka?
Everyone seems to have their own idea of who this God is…and I believe more wars have been fought over that than any other single cause in history.
Talk about a red herring, but I’m game.
The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.
“The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.”
All three monotheistic religions (Judea, Christianity and Islam) share the same God. They also share many of the same Prophets, for instance, Jesus is considered one of the Five Great Prophets in Islam. Abraham is considered the first of the prophets by all three religions.
BTW – Allah is just the Arabic word for GOD.
But I don’t think you would find a radical Muslim willing to say that George W. Bush’s God is the same God that he personally follows?
So God has many different names. And this proves what?
“So God has many different names. And this proves what?”
Radical Muslim, radical Jew or radical Christian – none will acknowledge that they in fact worship the same God. They use their version of God as a weapon to impact the lives of those that fail to see their version.
The point was NOT that God has many different names, it was that the three major monotheistic religions actually have the SAME God and to see otherwise is hypocritical.
The original point was that we should all follow God’s path, yada yada….
The follow up was “which God?”
The answer is; regardless of whether you are Jewish, Christian or Muslim, you all have the same God.
As for me – I don’t believe in religion for many of the reasons noted above.
The only real truth in life is that we’ll all die someday, and how we choose to spend our brief existance is up to us. We can waste it, hate it, enjoy it, make our life or other’s miserable, or we can try to make our little world a better place during our time here. It’s all up to us, I don’t believe there is an afterlife, so my life here is very important to me.
WSClark, I agree with you, I think religion has done a lot of damage to our world and each other.
The same God my ass!Jesus said: The only way to my Father is through me, Jesus Christ.This means if you aren’t a Christian then you don’t go to heaven. Since there is only one other place besides heaven in Christian mythology, everyone else goes to Hell.The great monotheistic religions evolved from Hebrew traditions, but they are not the same religion.
I agree with WSClark and Mary. The problem with many religious-types is that they live for the “next” world and not this one. Pascal’s Wager goes both ways here. If there is no afterlife, why risk your life on the idea that there is?
But Andrew, that is the problem. Radical Christians believe they are the only ones going to Heaven. This makes them the ’special people or God’s people’. That turns off alot of the others in the world and where did you get that verse about the only way to Heaven – in YOUR Bible.
So, in essence, Radical Christians are assuring themselves a place in Heaven where all the rest of the heathens will not be?
‘
“The same God my ass!”
Look it up; all three monotheistic religions have the same origins.
Same origins – same God.
I am not a Christian. I am a proud atheist! And I do not delude myself about the nature or potential of religion.
Right WS Clark, same origins. But a conservative of anyone of these religions would not tell you that their God is the same. They are different gods in the sense that they have different requirements, and are all inherently intolerant of other beliefs.
Although I would agree that religion has done a lot of damage to humanity, and some good (not many examples, but a few things good for humanity), I don’t think it should be restricted from, force by, tailored to, or pandered in any way to people.
That means keeping government secular and keeping public venues free from religious doctrine or influence. That includes the current events of the demands to have Muslium Prayer Rooms in Airports.
Here’s the catch. If you live your life as if there is an afterlife, and there isn’t … at least you have had a rewarding life. If you live your life believing that there isn’t, and there is … you are left with nothing but at the end of a long line of people saying, “Oh, SHIT ! I thought they were kidding !!”
RM– That is essentially Pascal’s Wager, but it doesn’t specify WHICH RELIGION. You can’t very well practice all religions to cover the bases (because most of those religions would not allow it). You could apply the same logic of Pascal’s Wager to say Zeus, Thor, Baal, etc…
How do YOU know RM? There is no evidence to suggest that an afterlife or eternal soul exists, so it is reasonable to assume that they simply do not exist.
I don’t Andrew … just hedging my bet !
Amen to all you said, Mary.
No! ALL HAIL LORD XENU!
Whatever the hell that means ??? I can certainly tell you this, Andrew, any man blessed enough to have been present at the births of his two beautiful children and seen them grow into vibrant,intellegent, healthy young women and can play with his grandchildren all these years later believes in SOMETHING !!
It’s not what I KNOW, Andrew, that counts. It’s what I BELIEVE. They’re two very different things.
And, for what it’s worth, when I was in my 20’s, having been raised Jewish, I analytically disemboweled belief systematically as hyperbole and mysticism. It took me many years to understand the difference between knowing and believing.
And Mary, (make sure you have the nitroglycerin tab ready to put under your tounge quickly), I agree with you, too !!! As much as I hate to admit it ! :)
Hmmm… Religious texts are all dubious. It is obvious we do not derive our morality from “God”, so what reason do we have to believe anything else about religion?You can believe whatever you want, and I will literally fight for that right. But that doesn’t make what you believe true or worth my time.
Oh yeah, The evil Galactic Lord Xenu allegedly ruled a galatic empire over 75 million years ago. He is the bad guy in Scientology’s myths. Imagine how ridiculous this sounds to you. Now, that is how I react to all religion and mysticism.
Point well made. Examine this for a moment, please. IF there is a God, and IF he truly cares about us, does he really give a rat’s ass whether we call ourselves Baptist, Pentacostal, Jewish, or Ethiopian Espicolpalian? To me, everything pretty much centers under the “Do unto others….” part, and the rest of it will pretty much fall into place. Christians, Hebrews, Islamics, Buddhists, Taoists, et al, killing other people “in the name of God, Allah, Buddha, Xenu, or some fucking little orange troll that lives under the bridge is wrong. Period. And no “sect” is immune.
So you’re not a Christian?
In essence, Andrew, I think we’re saying the same thing in two different ways.
Not in the semantic sense, no.
All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Raaaamennnnnnnn.
Apparently, Rep. Tiahrt is upsetting the Republican Study Committee (see final 3 paras of the linked article).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/inside_report_hamstringing_bus.html
Vaughn: What does that mean? Does he have a chance, what good could he do, etc., or is he just looking for a few lines of newsprint? He’s been around for 6 terms and hasn’t don’t a damned thing yet. Honest question, pal. I don’t know.
***done! Whoops!
BTW, is anybody else getting this “hard to see” bullshit letter and number hocus-pocus coming up before they post. For those of us with impaired eyesight already, I don’t need this shit!
***done! Whoops!
Maybe Todd Tiarht is planning his own run for president in 2008? It sounds like the man still doesn’t get it. The election results were pretty clear and this man has no clue.
The majority of Americans are tired of the Conservative Christian posing themselves as such compassionate people when really they are just wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Maybe if Tiarht is riling up the Republicans, the rest of the pack will eat him for lunch and then our problem will simply go away.
“DIVIDED CONSERVATIVES
“While the conservative Republican Study Committee (RSC) will have an increased percentage in the GOP’s depleted House ranks, it is being divided in a battle for its leadership between reformers and appropriators.
“Third-term Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a reformer opposing earmarks, was in line to be the next RSC chairman. But he is being challenged by Rep. Todd Tiahrt of Kansas, a sixth-termer who sits on the Appropriations Committee.
“Tiahrt’s candidacy riles reformers who want to make the RSC the base for controlling spending and the growth of government. In the wake of the election, the RSC’s share of all House Republicans has climbed from 43 percent to as high as 54 percent. Hensarling’s backers complain that Tiahrt’sush challenge dilutes the impact of conservatives.”
rm, apparently Tankerless Todd is vying for the chair of the RSC. The first para implicitly calls him (TT) an “appropriator”, i.e., a pork producer, rather than a “reformer”, i.e., one who is interested in limiting government spending. The fear is that the (fiscal) conservatives’ power on the RSC will be diluted by the challenge. It has been reported in many “conservative” blogs I have read that one reason for the results of the 2006 election is that the Republicans lost their way, becoming spenders and enlarging government, rather than limiting spending and government.
Just thought it interesting that TT felt it incumbent to challenge the RSC leadership plan of succession, and the reaction of the conservatives to the same.
I see. I agree. Hmmmmmmmm.
Sunny: Want a visual image to LYAO ? “Brownback & Tihart in ‘08″ bumper stickers. Damn, let’s glob up all of those we can find. We can sell them on eBay in ‘09, and make a fortune from collectors !!!!! This is the lottery ticket we’ve all been hoping For! :)
Goddamn it, RM, I am about to make dinner and you have come up with something like Brownback/Tiahrt.
(big dose of sarcasm)
I think I lost my appetite.
Yeah, yeah, I know that it UNLIKLY, but I am still going to have nightmares.
Thanks, friend!
That’s what I was thinking also but then the Religious Right will be dancing naked in the streets but no one else will be.
Thanks RM – the image of that bumper stiker will help me stick to my diet!
Seems Rumsfeld wrote a classified memo to the White house calling for major changes in the Iraq war, two days before his resignation. Now we know why he suddenly retired. Rummy pissed off the Dummy! Tired of playing stay the course B.S. and seeing the fiasco caused by the Dummy!
Sunny: And then they will FREEZE their asses off … and that will work, too !!!
What I fear the most about the situation in Iraq is that there are no longer ANY answers. Everything has risk now, and the real options are very few.
I read this article a few minutes ago, and it just reinforced my thought that the bottom line is now very simple – we’re fucked.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16000592/
Given all the options, however limited, I see our best course of action is to pull back within the country and let the Iraqi’s sort it out. Keep our troops safely out of the line of fire, but keep them in country to balance the influence of Iran and Syria.
That is probably a naive thought, but sure as hell don’t want to see us lose anymore of our best and brightest.
Beyond that, I just don’t see any real options available. GWB has made one horrible mess and now we have to live with the fallout.
We are going to be paying for this disaster for generations to come.
Sad.
WS & Ben: Glad I could help, in my small way, against the “War Against Obesity”! And as funny as it was meant, it’s drop dead scary, ain’t it?
I wonder who leaked the memo. I doubt that many (or any) Democrats had access to it. In fact, I would guess only members of the Bush administration.
For Fleettwood:
BushCo = back-stabbing liars
WS: 10.4
Just get our kids out of the line of fire, and I’ll be happy.
Bush has taken a giant crap in the middle of the dining room table and has now invited the entire world in for dinner.
Thanks, George.
Yeah, Ben, it would be interesting as hell to know who leaked it ??
I see from KC that former, City Commissioner, former Mayor Bob Knight is contemplating running for his previous office in my hometown of Wichita.
Bob, you had your run, did a lot of good and botched up a lot, too. Despite what you feel about Mr. Mayans, the current Mayor or the ways things are being handled at Central and Main, change was needed. From up here, I can’t see, try as you might, what you would have any different to offer Wichita other than business as usual, calling on your old markers, many of whom are retired, as you should be or dead.
C’mon Bob, take your wife for a nice trip, on YOUR money, do something philanthropic or why not volunteer at some of the charities and agencies in the community. Allow some fresh faces and ideas have their turn.
I would not be surprised to see Bob win. Consider: there is a lot of dis-satisfaction with Mayans but he still has a core of support. Bob also has a core base. A three-way (or more) race for the primary could see Bob and Mayans make the run-off. Then, in that who knows who would win. With a lot of people wanting to see a casino and Bob having pushed them …
Bob is an expert! Bob has figured it all out! Bob should write a book about “How to Live Off the Public Teat For your Whole Life.” If he doesn’t die,or get elected, he will. Maybe it should be the “Bob Knight Arena” !?! He is decideing whether to “run again” vs. his private endeavors… just how fucking dumb does he think people are?? Wake up, we just might be!
What a great game WSU played tonight against Syracuse! A little tight at the end, but props to Shocks for hanging in for another impressive road win. Can a top 10 ranking be far away?
Just got done re-watching one of my favorite movies, “Mr. Smith goes to Washington”.
That movie should be shown in every high school in America.
outlander – could be. Beating Syracuse in the Carrier Dome – WOW!
JR, I watched it a few weeks ago and was wishing we had a Mr. Smith who would show up and fight for the people and the Constitution.
The only thing I didn’t like about it was the end. I didn’t feel satisfied. It came too soon and didn’t seem to wrap up everything and tell me where Smith and others, including the country, were headed.
I’ll watch a Capra movie over anything made these days.
Yeah RD
I hesitate to critique a Capra movie. But the end WAS a little sudden.
Maybe just a few minutes more where Jeb comes to, realizes he has won, and then finally yields the floor.
The bush adminstration fires another employee who was making corporations pay their fair share.http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/business/yourmoney/03whistle.html?ex=1322802000&en=e782d957e752a4b1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
DURING a 22-year career, Bobby L. Maxwell routinely won accolades and awards as one of the Interior Department’s best auditors in the nation’s oil patch, snaring promotions that eventually had him supervising a staff of 120 people.
He and his team scrutinized the books of major oil producers that collectively pumped billions of dollars worth of oil and gas every year from land and coastal waters owned by the public. Along the way, the auditors recovered hundreds of millions of dollars from companies that shortchanged the government on royalties.
“Mr. Maxwell’s career has been characterized by exceptional performance and significant contributions,” wrote Gale A. Norton, then the secretary of the interior, in a 2003 citation. Ms. Norton praised Mr. Maxwell’s “perseverance and leadership” while cataloguing his “many outstanding achievements.”
Less than two years later, the Interior Department eliminated his job in what it called a “reorganization.” That came exactly one week after a federal judge in Denver unsealed a lawsuit in which Mr. Maxwell contended that a major oil company had spent years cheating on royalty payments.
“When I got this citation, they told me this would be very good for my career,” said Mr. Maxwell, smiling during an interview here. “Next thing I knew, they fired me.” Today, at 53, Mr. Maxwell lives on a $44,000 annual pension in a two-bedroom bungalow in the hills outside the Hawaiian capital.
dave s – Mr. Maxwell violated the Bush #1 rule – don’t mess with the big oil guys’ money. Why do you think Georgie went into Iraq?
Has anyone read Carter’s new book “Palestine: Peace not Apartheid”? I just watch him on cspan book review where he took questions for three hours from the public. Even in his eighties he’s sharp as a tack, and would put Bush Jr. to shame.Carter stated that he never took any of money from the zionist lobby, Think it was apic. He did make the comment that the group is very influential in Washington.Also stated that Israel was given or has taken 72% of what was palestine, and the settlements are in the remaining 28%. That the settlements are connected by roads in the remaining palestine area, which palestinians are not allowed to use or cross, that areas within the palestine area are often encased by walls, which sometimes separates a palestinian’s home from his land. That when the Israelies make a road, they take a 300 meter path, cut down olive trees in the path, (some 1000 yrs. old) dig deep ditches on both sides of the road and put in listening devices.Also said that Israel has 900 palestinian prisoners, 100 of them women, and 300 children under twelve.
Then what you’re saying is, your life is worthless, there is no meaning in life, and everything you worked so hard to achieve during your momentary existence on this earth is utterly pointless because you will die. I guess this is the “selling point” of athiesm, yes?
Over the course of human history, religion has been used primarily as a motivational tool. Look at all the great architects of the ancient world and you will find that the structures that dominated the skylines were built out of religious fervor. I would argue that religion was necessary in order to achieve cohesion of thought, the building blocks of society. If everything is relative, there would be no point in getting up in the morning, and you certainly can’t have progress, culture, art, without the MOTIVATION to work.
Well Crusader, it’s better than eternal hell, isn’t it? I think it also makes us more responsible for our actions. God isn’t going to be there to clean up the mess we leave behind. In other words, why would Christians be worried about nuclear war- God will fix it all anyway. Atheists don’t see it that way.
I’m not an atheist, but I also don’t believe organized religion’s idea of God either- so I do believe that we own this earth and are responsible for it.
My faith is in God but I have healthy skepticism of any organized religion. There is a difference between faith and religion. That’s why I find it so incomprehensible that some people will believe anything that one preacher will tell them.
And I especially have to ask why these evangelical christians always quote their Bible as the source of all facts. That is no proof – the Bible may be infallible to them – but not to everyone. There are many disputed verses in the Bible.
To heck with all of this IMPORTANT stuff – the BCS Bowl selection show is on………..
Fingers crossed……….
Prayers said……………
Promises made………….
Rabbit’s foot………….
Go Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To heck with all of this IMPORTANT stuff – the BCS Bowl selection show is on………..
Fingers crossed……….
Prayers said……………
Promises made………….
Rabbit’s foot………….
Go Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!!