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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted Dec. 1, 2006 at 1:06 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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57 Comments
Although it looked questionable in the morning, USD 259 officials made the correct decision yesterday to close the schools for the day. Almost 20% of Wichita’s population, staff and students, are involved in our schools in some way. Probably thousands of nutricious meals are prepared and delivered to school cafeterias each day … don’t know how many. Innumerable traffic problems were avoided on Wichita streets.
I’m the first to say, students need to be in school at every available opportunity if we are going to compete with other Kansas schools, and across America, and in the free world!
The big story today is Roberts stepping down, maybe he doesn’t want to be there when the truth comes out.
CF JR and the rest of you moonbats.
“PELOSI — IS SHE REALLY THIS OBTUSE?
Don’t you just love that word … obtuse? The dictionary gives us this: “not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull. see Pelosi, Nancy ”
Yesterday I told you that Pelosi had condemned the president for saying that Al Qaeda was involved in the insurgency in Iraq. She said that “the 9/11 Commission dismissed that notion a long time ago and I feel sad that the president is resorting to it again.”
Now Pelosi made that statement on November 28th. November 28th would be 18 days after November 10th. That’s two and one-half weeks. Eighteen days is enough time for even the obtuse Nancy Pelosi (sorry for the redundancy) to absorb the fact that on that date Al Qaeda released a video tape claiming that they had 12,000 fighters working in Iraq. Al Qaeda brags of the number of fighters it has mobilized to battle American troops in Iraq, and Pelosi says she is sad that the president is saying that Al Qaeda has fighters in Iraq.”
From Boortz.
Be proud people, be proud. Truth to Power and all that rot!
If we are to compete globally JWink, we need school choice and the voucher system. Our communist style approach to education will keep the system at mediorce at best.
School choice!
Just see John Stossel’s “Stupid in America”.
On a side note! Did anybody catch John Stossel’s “Cheap in America”? It shows how selfish leftist liberals were in charity giving? Basically they don’t give hardly at all, yet they try to take the high ground in morality in the compassion for their fellow man. It’s a myth! Leftist Liberals are angry and selfish people.
I say again:
Ms Pelosi has no freakin’ idea what she’s doing.
“Just see John Stossel’s ‘Stupid in America’”.
Yes, John IS stupid in America, but that’s okay. He has that right. I long ago stopped caring what that third-rate tabloid hack had to say about anything.
John has an on-going, intense love affair with himself.
That is curious as to why Roberts is stepping down, Hmmm.
Heckler, so Al Qaida is just now mobilizing 12,000 troops to Iraq. Wow. I guess they finally feel safe enough to go there.If you’re looking for truth, you’re looking in the wrong place.
NO VOUCHERS. If we want a better school, we need to work on it from within the community to make the school in our own community work.
Silvestre Reyes in as House Intelligence Chair.
Let the subpeonas go out.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-House-Intelligence.html?hp&ex=1165035600&en=6f0d76e9d8d82f18&ei=5094&partner=homepage
**********************************”Known as ”Silver” to friends, Reyes is a Purple Heart winner who was drafted into the Army and served during 1966-68 as a helicopter crew chief and gunner. His service included 13 months in Vietnam.
Under Democratic control, his committee is expected to conduct more public oversight of some of the most difficult issues facing the United States, including terrorism, Iraq and government surveillance. Given the committee’s inherently secret nature, much of the work will have to be done behind closed doors.
In an interview this month, Reyes said he will insist on more information about the Bush administration’s most classified programs and how they are working. The Republicans, he said, have made a habit of rubber-stamping those programs.
He also wants to look at the role of intelligence three years after the war in Iraq and the state of traditional spycraft, known in spook lingo as ”human intelligence.”
”We haven’t required or haven’t had the administration give us the details, evaluation or plan of how these classic programs are functioning,” he said. ”There is plenty to do on the role of intelligence, the programs that are vital and critical to our national defense, and certainly to our war fighters.””
Heckler — I was insulted that you left me off your list of “moonbats.” To be called an idiot by an idiot is a mark of high distinction.
“Al Qaeda released a video tape claiming that they had 12,000 fighters working in Iraq.”
And we should believe terrorists because they would never lie or exaggerate, right?
The important question is not how many they have there now . . . the question is how many were there BEFORE we invaded.
The 9-11 Commission said it was negligble, which makes sense considering that Al Qaeda wanted to knock off Saddam and the man is nothing if not ruthless to his enemies.
So even if Al Qaeda is correct, then we are forced to conclude that the invasion made the terrorist threat much worse.
Notice how Bush isn’t saying, “Bring ‘em on” anymore?
Concerned_Mom — No value added. No information given. Readers are instructed to hit the “ignore” button for her future posts. (Tip o’ the hat to “borg”)
CF — Pass the popcorn. I’m NOT really going to enjoy seeing Bush get what he deserves, for what Reyes reveals will show just how much BushCo has hurt the country.
Bush is Bush. He’s like a Mafia capo. You can’t really be surprised anymore when you see all the crimes he’s committed, the lies he’s told, or the cronies he’s paid off with billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars.
He is what he is, no surprise there.
But what I am going to enjoy is seeing Pat “Cue Ball” Roberts get the public scourging he so richly deserves. Here’s somebody who KNEW BETTER, dammit! And he went along with it anyway.
You can’t really condemn Bush. He’s like the alpha wolf in a pack — he has no morality except a necessary loyalty to his vicious henchmen.
But to a formerly decent person like Roberts who has the capacity to see good and evil and CHOOSES EVIL, there’s no (legal) punishment bad enough . . .
Hey, Pat Old Buddy, if you’re listening: now might be a really good time to retire with your cushy tax-payer funded pension and spend more time with your family.
In Brazil . . . or someplace that doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the U. S.
Capn
Sorry man, when I insult people I generally try to do it on purpose. I’ll try to do better.
It’s kind of funny how you entirely dodge the issue of what a DITZ Pelosi is. You folks who constantly call Bush a simpleton idiot should really be impressed with Nancy.
And there’s plenty of paperwork from Sadams regime indicating that they were training Al Quaeda and other foreign terrorists well before we invaded them. I don’t remember the web site, DOD or something like that.
There has never been any credible evidence of a relationship between Sadam and Al Qaeda. I would refer you to the 9/11 commission report for confirmation of that.
I have always thought that Heckler was too smart to continue clinging to false statements. Guess I was wrong.
Sadam would send money to the families of suicide bombers who killed themselves in Israel. These people had nothing to do with Al Qaeda.
Steven
There is a government website devoted to posting the tons and tons of official paperwork seized from Sadams regime. They’ve only gone through a small percentage of it. There is much there regarding Sadams training camps for terrorists and who some of them where.
I’m surprised you havent heard of it. Remember, Ignorance can be fixed, Stupid can’t.
Heck–
Links.
Pelosi is only a ditz if she’s wrong. So far you’ve given no evidence that she is wrong.
“I remember hearing that Rush Limbaugh was the twentith terrorist involved in the 9-11 attacks.”
See how it works?
Without links, you got nuthin’.
Heck–
In four years, Bush Co. has only gone through “a small percentage” of Saddam’s seized papers?
Is there any crap you won’t believe as long as it supports Bush?
Even if this is true, it means that BushCo. is wholly OBTUSE to use your word.
Christ, even Bush, Cheney, et all, have admitted that Saddam was NOT in league with al Qaeda – how much more proof would any Neocon need?
Bush, Cheney, et all, have also admitted that there were NO WMD, but we still put up with Neocons claiming that they are in Syria or in secret tunnels or hidden in various body cavities of Saddam.
What more does it take to convince some people?
Heckler,Is this what your thinking of? I know it’s from his majesty Rush lord of lies and deception. He is part of the government.. Ministry of Propaganda
http://www.rushonline.com/visitors/linkconfirmed.htm
Important new information has come from Edward Jay Epstein about Mohammed Atta’s contacts with Iraqi intelligence. The Czechs have long maintained that Atta, leader of the 9/11 hijackers in the United States, met with Ahmed al-Ani, an Iraqi intelligence official, posted to the Iraqi embassy in Prague. As Epstein now reports, Czech authorities have discovered that al-Ani’s appointment calendar shows a scheduled meeting on April 8, 2001 with a “Hamburg student.”
That is exactly what the Czechs had been saying since shortly after 9/11: Atta, a long-time student at Germany’s Hamburg-Harburg Technical University, met with al-Ani on April 8, 2001. Indeed, when Atta earlier applied for a visa to visit the Czech Republic, he identified himself as a ÒHamburg student.Ó The discovery of the notation in al-Ani’s appointment calendar about a meeting with a ÒHamburg studentÓ provides critical corroboration of the Czech claim.
Heck, are you referring to the web site pulled by the gov’t after the instructions on assembling an A-bomb were found thereon, as reported by the NY Times?
Steven,You’re kidding, right? There is significant evidence that AQ and Sadam are/were connected. In fact, Bill Clinton acknowledged this after the first WTC attack and many members of Congress – GOP and Democrat – have also made the same claim.
The 9/11 Commission – bless their hearts – came to the conclusion that Iraq/Saddam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, but it did NOT go so far as to say that UBL/AQ and Saddam had no relationship.
And, today…now that AQ admitting that they have 12k terrorists (they aren’t “troops” PeeMom), you STILL say there’s no connection?
“..must place head in sand now…”
Please people we must all remember that ” We are worse than Saddam” according to some.
Heckler,
I googled Saddam, paperwork and went through the first three pages. Most of what was returned were links regarding his trial where they found his signature on paperwork ordering the deaths of Kurds. Nothing there like what you describe.
As WSClark points out: “Christ, even Bush, Cheney, et al., have admitted that Saddam was NOT in league with al Qaeda – how much more proof would any Neocon need?”
The relationship between pre-9/11 Saddam and Al Qaeda has been so thoroughly discredited, thus my surprise at your beliefs that there was a relationship between them.
IF you can provide a link, I certainly would like to see what you are talking about.
Can anyone remember this – Saddam and al Qaeda were MORTAL enemies.
Saddam crushed fundamentalist Islamic groups – al Qaeda actively pursued overthrowing Saddam.
They hated each other!
Unless you believe that Elton John and Fred Phelps have hooked up, you have to understand that the two groups were mutally exclusive.
Christ – even the most ill informed citizen has to be able to understand the difference between a secular Muslim and a fundamentalist Muslim.
They don’t mix.
Why would secular Saddam want to associate with Al Qaeda? Wasn’t he having enough trouble holding on to power. He didn’t even trust his own sons.
GolfNut,
Please provide evidence (or a link, even) of an operational relationship between pre 9/11 Saddam and Al Qaeda. If I am remembering correctly, there was never evidence that Saddam ever even talked to bin Laden or anyone from Al Qaeda.
You guys HAVE to be able to do better than this. Talk about head in sand or somewhere else.
Below is a link to the Senate Intelligence Committee report of September 8, 2006, concerning prewar intelligence on Iraq as constrasted to postwar (for lack of a better term) findings:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html
IIRC, Section 12 et seq deal with any alleged relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda.
Download, if you so wish, and read what that says. BTW, the entire report is a zip file, and in PDF format.
Thank you Vaughn. I am reading the relevant portion now.
Steven D, you are most welcome. I found the report interesting reading when it was released ~3 months ago.
Just more misinformation continuing to be circulated by the BushBuddies.
It doesn’t matter what proof there is, they’ll keep on saying that Saddam and OBL were the best of friends. Hey, I’ll bet OBL even helped hide all those WMDs. /sarcasm
Air Tran – What a Bargain.NOT!!
When I was looking for some flights in January I thought I would try to be supportive of Wichita’s allegedly low-fair airline, Air Tran. What I found, without exception, it that it was the MOST EXPENSIVE.
Wichitans are being sold a scam and the sad thing is that they’re buying into it.
I love how nobody has mentioned that the Kansas Supreme Court threw out the investigation into if Phill Kline abused those medical records by giving information to Bill O’Liely.
I say we call a grand jury investigation.
Goofytesticles actually post something to back up what he says? HAHAHA, that’s a joke.
The reason Heck and GoofNut can’t find any links is because they got their information from people like Bret Hume and Bill Kristol on Faux News during those “talking head” shows . . . the ones where they sit around and bloviate and make all kinds of statements without evidence.
Fox News knew its job–create a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam–and they did it. Truth be damned.
That’s why studies prove that Fox News viewers are more misinformed the more they watch the channel.
Vaughn
I believe it’s the same website, I wasn’t aware that they took the whole site down, thought they just took down the Nuke info.
Good point, Mom. Providing links is too much like, you know, doing research.
And once you start doing research, you start thinking for yourself.
Can’t have that.
Just repeat Rush. Repeat Rush. Must repeat Rush. Ditto that, Rush. Mega dittos, Rush.
Mom, as I understood the reports on the action of the Kansas Supreme Court, it merely overruled the motion to appoint a special prosecutor.
Heckler, it is my recollection that the whole site was taken down, due to not knowing what else might be contained in the millions of untranslated pages. Anyone else on this?
Chickenshit
http://www.nysun.com/article/29746?page_no=1
Steven Chickenshit
In Google advanced -(all words) Saddam Qaeda
(exact phrase) translated documents
All kinds of commentary from blogs and links to translations of some of the docs,etc.etc. etc.
I’m at work, don’t have time to dig.
Knock yourselves out.
Isn’t the New York Sun a sister publication of the National Inquirer?
I once used the Sun to line the kitty litter box, until my cat told me that it was redundant.
The NEW YORK SUN??
Oh Heckler you ARE getting desperate.
Why don’t ya just post something someone overheard Rush Limbaugh grunting while he was taking a dump in a public toilet?
Jr
If you read the damned story you would see that it references an ABC story.
What an idiot!
Okay, I read it. Apparently, an Iraqi envoy met with OBL in 1995.
“a handwritten account of a February 19, 1995, meeting between an official representative of Iraq and Mr. bin Laden himself, where Mr. bin Laden broached the idea of ‘carrying out joint operations against foreign forces’ in Saudi Arabia.”
While the article says that Saddam may have allowed some sermons to be broadcast in support of this operation, it doesn’t confirm that.
At any rate, it’s one extremely tenuous tie.
And what it does show is that what fueled the fury of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda against the US was the presence of FOREIGN (meaning U. S.) troops in Saudi Arabia, the same troops that Cheney promised would not be there “one minute longer than necessary.”
The United States endured a decade of terrorist attacks by Al Qaeda (Clinton bears some culpability for this too) and never disclosed what the motivation for the terror attacks were–get American troops out of the holy of holies, Saudi Arabia.
It doesn’t have the panache of “they hate us for our freedoms,” but the truth is often a little more banal.
This from the NY Sun article Heckler mentions above:
********************************************************************CAIRO, Egypt – A former Democratic senator and 9/11 commissioner says a recently declassified Iraqi account of a 1995 meeting between Osama bin Laden and a senior Iraqi envoy presents a “significant set of facts,” and shows a more detailed collaboration between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
In an interview yesterday, the current president of the New School University, Bob Kerrey, was careful to say that new documents translated last night by ABC News did not prove Saddam Hussein played a role in any way in plotting the attacks of September 11, 2001.
Nonetheless, the former senator from Nebraska said that the new document shows that “Saddam was a significant enemy of the United States.” [big surprise there] Mr. Kerrey said he believed America’s understanding of the deposed tyrant’s relationship with Al Qaeda would become much deeper as more captured Iraqi documents and audiotapes are disclosed.
Last night ABC News reported on five recently declassified documents captured in Iraq. One of these was a handwritten account of a February 19, 1995, meeting between an official representative of Iraq and Mr. bin Laden himself, where Mr. bin Laden broached the idea of “carrying out joint operations against foreign forces” in Saudi Arabia. The document, which has no official stamps or markers, reports that when Saddam was informed of the meeting on March 4, 1995 he agreed to broadcast sermons of a radical imam, Suleiman al Ouda, requested by Mr. bin Laden.********************************************************************
This is far from a smoking gun, but the fact that Kerry (a democrat, isn’t he?) is saying this lends credibility to the story.
This Weekly Standard link that enumerates the contacts between Saddam’s regime and al Qaeda:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp
But I am pretty sure the above and other stories I’ve seen from Heckler’s recommended google search are re-hashes of what is covered in the link Vaughn provided. This conclusion (among many) in that report:
Conclusion 93. The Central Intelligence Agency reasonably assessed that there were likely several instances of contacts between Iraq and al Qaida throughout the 1990s, bu that those contacts did not add up to an established formal relationship.
There is much redacted from that report.
I say the jury is still out on the pre-9/11 Saddam/al Qaeda connection. It is possible that translated documents from Saddam’s rule will provide evidence of collaboration. That has not happened yet, to my satisfaction.
Heckler, even though I disagree with you often, I think you will note that I have never sunk to calling you names.
In summary, I was wrong in saying that there had not been contacts between Saddam and al Qaeda. Clearly there had been. What those contacts mean, or meant, is not clear. Maybe we shall see from these newly translated documents.
Kerrey is a democrat.
Relevant to the “contacts” vs “collaboration” issue,
‘THE LOGIC OF CONTACTS AND RELATIONSHIPS! Suggestive words are being used to keep us confused about Qaeda:’
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh061804.shtml
Rummy met with Saddam, does that make Rummy a Dictator, or Saddam an idiot?
Steven Davis
Did not mean that you are a chickenshit. Should have read Steven AND Chickenshit. The Chick knows who he is.
I’ve seen no documents that say Saddam himself met with any Reps of Al Quaeda. But I’ve seen several that showed that members of his staff and some military leaders met with them.But not with Bim Laden himself. And I seem to remember seeing reference to some that showed one of his sons was involved in the training camps.
And Pelosi is still a Ditz of frightening proportion.
“Going to Kansas City” – I have experience the same thing, AirTran has never been useful to me. Back when the City started this thing I suggested that, instead of picking one airline to one destination, they support local Air MidWest and operate a shuttle to KCI. From there we can fly anywhere.
Every time I have flown I have asked my agent to check AirTran; every time they prove useless.
DID ANYBODY ELSE NOTICE THIS
The four racist comments in a row on the opinion line.___________________________________Is there anything more to basketball than pictures we see in the paper of somebody dangling off a goal with his mouth open? I can’t wait for NASCAR to start again.
• • •
I am a European-American. I’ll go along with the O.J. Simpson verdict if you African-Americans will go along with the Rodney King beating verdict.
• • •
I want to know why every time a white person says something about a black person, it gets all blown up and everybody throws a hissy fit about it. And every time a black person says something about a white person, it’s no big deal. I just don’t understand.
• • •
Concerning football player Michael Vick, who made the obscene gesture to a fan: Let’s see how columnist Leonard Pitts handles that. If at all._____________________________
Believe me citizen callers of the opinion line, we get what your trying to imply!!!
And the Eagle should be ashamed of themselves for printing the OJ/King comment.!!!
Gary – while I agree 100% with your sentiment I cannot support censorship. Let the racists look like the idiots they are.
Thanks for the clarificaion, Heckler. I have always appreciated your sense of humor and ability to laugh at yourself. A skill that could be profitably employed by any number here.
Ben,I am with you on the 1st amendment, but I am also with Gary in that the O.J./King thing was way over the top. Does it rise to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater? Maybe not, but it was disgusting, none-the-less.
I never read those opinion line things. My 70-something father does every day and he will routinely find one that cracks him up — so, maybe they serve some purpose.
Mr. Huie – Thanks for confirming my experience.
Let the racists, homophobes and various intolerant sorts show themselves for the idiots that they are.
I agree completely with that thought – censoring them will only drive that thought pattern underground where it can be actually more dangerous. Fools such as those that posted that nonsense on Opinion Line only reinforce the need for responsible people to stand up and be counted.
Racism and like attitudes are best brought out in the open. Let them makes fools of themselves. The only way that those attitudes can truly be defeated is by shaming the practitioners of such hatred.
I have spent much of my life standing up to such foolishness – even from within my own family – and have found that the best way to deal with it is to confront it directly.
The only way to do that is to have it front and center so that all can see.
I was actually more disappointed to see the support that those comments received in the commentary section, but that only points out how far we have to go.
So, to quote your hero, GWB, bring it on, you racist, homophobic fools – we want to see who you really are!!!!
Analysis: poster “fleetwood”AKA: “hotlick”
Intelligence:Low
Relevance: NoneBlog contribution: Background noise/entertainment
Citizen type: “slack jawed mouth breather”
Affiliation: Republican
Probability of survival/evolution/credibility < 1%
end of line
cosmos,Way up thread, that _daily howler_ was an interesting read. Thank you.