This is hardly surprising, especially after he received Operation Rescue’s man of the year award: Outgoing Attorney General Phill Kline filed 11th-hour criminal charges Friday in Sedgwick County against abortion clinic doctor George Tiller, whose attorney, Dan Monnat, called the filing "the last gasp of a defeated and discredited politician."
The misdemeanor charges accuse Tiller of improperly finding that multiple patients’ mental health would be seriously harmed if they did not have abortions, and of not properly reporting some late-term abortions to the state — a charge that Monnat described as "hypertechnical."
Now we’ll see whether Kline, after years of legal haggling and expense, has anything significant that will stand up in court.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
UPDATE: District Judge Paul Clark has dismissed all the charges against Tiller. Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston requested the dismissal noting that Kline doesn’t have legal authority to unilaterally pursue criminal charges.
389 Comments
Is this is anything less than we expect from Phill Kline? Just like his appearance on Bill O’Reilly show and the abortion records. It’s all a part of the pony and show game for the OR and Religious Right sheeple.
The OR people have accused Tiller of many horrific crimes and then we hear misdemeanor charges?
Phill Klline just can’t take a hint. I wouldn’t wish that pervert on anyone, even the Mo Fo’s from Jo Co.
Pandering to his kook 35% to the last. Sad.
A woman is going to continue to have the right to control her body. This is not going to change. Deal with it.
Now we will see if there is anything there. Of course, Kline has set himself a win-win: if the case is solid and Tiller is convicted Kline claims vindication. If the case falls apart he blames Morrison.
After examining the case, if Morrison decides there’s nothing there, he can dismiss the case.
Big deal.
Kline has always been under the delusion that he has Kansas best interests at heart, and that deep down, we all support him because he’s such a good christian. I don’t see the delusion ending anytime soon.
Dan Monnat, called the filing “the last gasp of a defeated and discredited politician.”********************************************************************In the Eagle article, the above quote is credited to Lee Thompson, another Tiller attorney.
I wonder what Kline’s failure to notify Morrison or Folston about the charges means. Randy says the failure is telling. I am not sure what it is telling us.
Maybe telling us Nola would go to Paul Clark, Judge, and get the charges dismissed. See update on Eagle website.
I’ll go look. Thanks Vaughn.
“The misdemeanor charges accuse Tiller of improperly finding that multiple patients’ mental health would be seriously harmed if they did not have abortions.”
I wonder how one could conclude that the finding was improper from only a medical record? I hope we learn more. This suggests to me that maybe Kline’s filing really was a desperate 11th hour act as Randy alleges.
Do any of the attorney posters know if there is a legal standard set for when this is a proper justification for an abortion and when it is not proper?
Judge Paul Clark dismissed the charges.
Clark is not a supporter of Abortion, but IS a supporter of the constitution.
Pervert Phill is exposed.
Pervert Phill is trying to retain his glory but this may backfire in his face.
he is being investigated for election fraud and … nothing has been said yet about the records that Bill O’liley has talked aobut on his show
“and from a clinic in Overland Park operated by Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri.”
Isn’t Overland Park in JoCo?
Folston…
Democratic cronism at its worst. Obvious abuse of the office of District Attorney for Sedgwick County. She used her own personal views to make a determination instead of protecting the people of Sedgwick County.
She should be disciplined.
“nothing has been said yet about the records that Bill O’liley has talked aobut on his show”
Maybe the new AG will look into that.
As Vaugn indicates, this is the latest on the Kline charges:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/16300030.htm
Nola Foulston requested that the charges be dropped due to 1) Kline not being invited to assist in the case by Foulston; or 2) Kline not being directed to pursue the matter by the governor.
Paul Clark, Democrat, did agree to drop the charges.
Uh, last I checked JM, Nola isn’t the biggest supporter of abortion rights. I suspect more than cronyism at work here.
SD, the legal standards for abortion are found in a combination of the various state statutes combined with the judicial gloss of SCOTUS opinions. The mental health finding is in accord with at least one SCOTUS opinion; I’m not familiar with the Kansas statutes so I won’t answer on that basis. GMC, others?
Just another event of Folston protecting Tiller and her Democratic Cronies and not protecting those that got the late term abortions who could be possible abuse victims.
Protecting victims is counter to a District Attorney’s position.
Evidently Folston doesn’t care and doesn’t want to know.
Again, why is Tiller fighting so hard to hide what is in those records if he has nothing hide?
JM,”She used her own personal views to make a determination instead of protecting the people of Sedgwick County.”
And you’re saying that Kline didn’t when he filed those charges?
Just because Clark is a member of the Democratic party does not make him a bad person. He is one of the most honest ethical men.
He does support the constitution and has the ability to see through the BS
Phill is like a bad fungus…just won’t go away.
As a member of the Bar who has the good fortune to know Judge Clark, I can assure JM and others that any decision he renders is IAW the law, and not his personal beliefs nor his political affiliation.
I find it funny that when the charges were dismissed, the Eagle zapped the comments section of their article
As a member of the Bar who has the good fortune to know Judge Clark, I can assure JM and others that any decision he renders is IAW the law, and not his personal beliefs nor his political affiliation. Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | December 22, 2006 at 02:12 PM
The Judges in “Brown versus The Board of Education” ruled IAW the law, before the Supreme Court reversed them.
And you’re saying that Kline didn’t when he filed those charges?Posted by: Jed | December 22, 2006 at 02:10 PM
How do you know that one of the former patients at Tiller’s Clinic didn’t request the action by the Attorney General. Ever hear of the woman who was rushed through the ‘late term abortion’ in Tiller’s clinic with no more explanation than “sign here, sit here and pay us this much.”
what are you MEN getting all worked up about anyway? Abortion is a hard choice to make and if men would keep it in their pants and not see women as things, the abortion issue would go away. But men are pigs and want it both ways.
I guarentee that if Men had to worry about pregnancy, they would not be so quick to discuss this issue.
If they had to worry about rape and unwanted pregnancy they would drop it
True, JM; reading the Kansas Supreme Court opinion in that case is very interesting; I commend it to your attention.
A law professor of mine was Paul Wilson, the deputy AG who was tasked with arguing the Brown case before SCOTUS. His remarks on the case were illustrative of the duty of an attorney to his client, and the duty of judges to the law. I will give you a very summarized version thereof here: Just about everyone involved in the case at the State level felt that school segregation was wrong; however, this did not stop the lower court judges nor me from arguing to support it, as, after all, that was the law. If it can be said an attorney is pleased to have lost a case, I was after the Supreme Court handed down its opinion in the Brown case.
If Phill Kline was really concerned about child rapists, then go after the hospital records for live births, as well as the abortion records. Who says all children impregnated by rape have abortions?
This is where I question Phill Kline and the the OR in the abortion record search.
Plus, with live births, wouldn’t it be easier to get a conviction of the child rapist with the baby’s DNA?
“Ever hear of the woman who was rushed through the ‘late term abortion’ in Tiller’s clinic with no more explanation than “sign here, sit here and pay us this much.”"
No, do you have any verification of that allegation? Was she kidnapped and dragged there in the first place?
Probably shouldn’t have brought up the fact that Clark is a democrat. I’ve met him several times and he does seem like an okay guy. Way back in the day, Clark was in legal practice with Vern Miller - something I heard, any way.
JM,I am not certain that being angry with Nola is justified. Rather, if I am understanding correctly, Phill did not do his homework, or this was just a meaningless political gesture from him. I am thinking the latter, though the law has never been a big interest of Kline’s from what I can tell.
bbuuttt sunny,
that makes too much sense and will not let the perverts claim their fame
Yes, Sunny, what you say is true if Mr. Kline’s original assertion as to the purpose of his investigation was true, that is, the failure to report child abuse by licensed medical professionals. As memory serves, in oral argument to the Kansas Supreme Court, under close questioning of one of the Justices, he more or less abandoned that ground and advanced (although I’m sure it was made in the lower court, too) the argument of looking for violations of the abortion statutes as the same apply to late term abortions and the reporting thereof.
About time someone came to their senses on this. Kline is just trying to vindicate himself and grab headlines. He needs to BUTT OUT of women’s lives and personal decisions. I know Dr. Tiller, and firmly believe he would not contribute to any woman’s abuse. He knows his practices have to be above reproach.
If it can be said an attorney is pleased to have lost a case, I was after the Supreme Court handed down its opinion in the Brown case. osted by: Vaughn Tolle | December 22, 2006 at 02:20 PM
Nice to converse with someone who was part of the legendary history of our country’s law.
“JM,I am not certain that being angry with Nola is justified. Rather, if I am understanding correctly, Phill did not do his homework, or this was just a meaningless political gesture from him. I am thinking the latter, though the law has never been a big interest of Kline’s from what I can tell.”Posted by: Steven Davis | December 22, 2006 at 02:23 PM
Perhaps so. I would love to have ‘Nola’ explain why she is so resistant to investigating Tiller’s Clinic and if it complying with State Law concerning the reporting of sexual offenders.
If there is nothing there, then good. But I have this feeling that Tiller has plenty to hide.
JM, for clarification, that was my summary of Professor Wilson’s comments on the Brown case; I was but 4 years old when that decision came down.
Professor Wilson was very interesting to converse with about the case; every year, on the anniversary of the decision (after he had assumed emeritus status), he would give a lunchtime lecture on the case. He tried, as a professor, to inculcate in the callow students a feeling for being a lawyer, much appreciated by me, at least.
But Pam,don’t call me a pig just because of my gender.That’s not nice.
I calls them like I sees them
if it walks like a duckand quacks like a duck
But JM if you only have a feeling that Tiller has something to hide, then that is not evidence. It takes evidence to file charges.
I have questioned many OR supporters why they don’t send someone in undercover with a camera to get Tiller on tape. And to this date, I’ve heard no response to this proposal. Do like Dateline does with the child molesters. Works everytime.
There was a Tiller patient on national news who got a late term abortion. She stated that the counseling was minimal and not informative. She was rushed through the procedure and wasn’t given any other information after the abortion.
It sounds to me there is a smoking gun there. Tiller’s Clinic is fighting way too hard for nothing to be wrong.
I suspect that Tiller knows he violated the law and is coming out with guns blazing avoiding prosecution by using political trickery and favors called in with Nola Folston.
It just smells bad, something is not right.
how much money did that woman get paid???
just askin
I suspect … so bring forth some evidence.
As for the woman who claimes (maybe) on national news that she was rushed through. There are a number of steps that preceed the abortion proceedure itself. She was likely referred there by another doctor. She would have had ample opportunity to change her mind.
Of course, District Attorney’s never make mistakes…
Just ask Mike Nifong aka Duke Rape case.
awwwww another case that MEN hate
geesh we are getting it all today
To try again (my first post on this has vanished into the ether): the basis for the dismissal is one of lack of legal authority. My understanding of the statutes giving the AG power to proceed in a case are as set out above somewhere: the involvement of the AG’s office must be requested by the local DA or County Attorney, or the Governor must direct the AG to pursue the matter. Neither necessary condition exists here, and thus the dismissal.
JM,
I know someone who went to Tillers and did receive counseling and information after the fact. The difference is that she asked for it.
She said that there were women who went who said, just do it, i don’t want to hear it and they did. Very little counseling, very little info because that was their request.
Tiller isn’t doing anything wrong but helping people who want to be helped. You may look at it as killing innocents but i look at it as population control and as long as it remains legal, Tiller is entitled to the same rights and regulations as every other medical practice.
First of all, what national news was this former Tiller patient on? If it is Fox News, then I suspect it right off.
If this woman truly feels she was wronged, then why isn’t she the one asking for an investigation?
It should be up to her, not Phill Kline. The way he did this, it has made the entire situation political. Plus, he gets his face on the television again. Oh boy, more money coming in for the Operation Rescue coffers.
“I suspect … so bring forth some evidence.” Posted by: hmmm … | December 22, 2006 at 02:44 PM
Yeah okay, I give up. People do not want to see justice done in a court of law.
This case has be obstructed politically, by hook and crook, WILLFULLY ignored by our own District Attorney and
…any other underhanded method used by those who forget that Justice is “Blind.”
If there is no case after the case has been heard, then fine. But let the case go forward.
You people stomp on the opinions of others when they have the full backing of the law to investigate and to carry out a case that would protect women from sexual predators that were possibly not reported by Tiller.
If you want to support Adolph Mengele Tiller and Propagantist side-kick Folston, the by all means do so.
JM,
I think Nola is one of the more conservative democrats I have ever met. Like Vaughn says above I wouldn’t think abortion rights would be high on her list.
I doubting Foulston’s action derived from anything she took personally. I can’t see where protecting Tiller from the consequences of breaking the law would amount to very good politics for Foulston.
What I think is more likely is that Kline has a political vendetta against Tiller. In the 2002 election, Tiller’s PAC poured a huge amount of money into the coffers of the Kline’s opponent. That guy, whose name I can never recall, nearly beat Kline.
It is widely suspected that Tiller’s PAC was behind the “Snoop Dog” anti-Kline mailings. Tiller undoubtedly hurt Kline in this year’s election.
So, while Kline will use abortion as a political wedge, I suspect he hates Tiller more.
I don’t see why my questioning Phill Kline’s intention of getting only the abortion clinics records and not all health care records of minor pregnant children as supporting any criminal activity of Tiller.
If Tiller really is doing these things that OR and Phill Kline are accusing him of, then go get the proof. It’s that simple.
The way Kline has handled this whole thing is political and suspect.
No, JM, you are wrong. I DO want to see justice done. It’s just that I want to see some evidence before I hang someone.
Like the Duke case; there is something called “due process.” I gather that in your world that would not exist for those you dislike.
“the full backing of the law”? Nope, you don’t have that.
sunny - wanna bet the “national news show” was O’Liely?
Vaughn Tolle: When I was attending graduate school at K.U., although not a law student, I also took a class in the K.U. law school from Paul Wilson. One of the best classes I ever took and Mr. Wilson was a great professor. Wilson did talk a lot about the Brown vs Topeka school board case. In later years, Paul Wilson was president of the Kansas Historical Society.
Several years later, I knew a professor from Johnson County Community College, probably in the 1980’s, but can’t think of his name now, who was also much involved in that “Brown/Topeka” case. In fact, I interviewed him on video tape about his knowledge but don’t know what happened to that tape.
Strangely, as I understand it, an earlier case in Merriam, Kansas, probably in the early 1950’s, came close to being the U.S. Supreme Court landmark desegregation case. Coincidentally, it would have been brought by a white woman named BROWN on behalf of the black children attending a segregated school in the South Park neighborhood. South Park is now a part of Merriam, adjacent to Overland Park, in Johnson County, Kansas.
The problem with this Merriam, Kansas, case was the segregated black school was physically in worse shape than the then new South Park School, which was all white. In fact, within the last three years, I drove past that little school and it is still in use, as a church.
Now, Vaughn, correct me if I am mistaken but I believe the U.S. Supreme Court in 1954 wanted a case where the black segregated school was in better physical shape than the nearby white school. The point they wanted to make was that regardless of the condition of the schools — SEGREGATION ITSELF WAS THE CULPRIT THAT NEEDED TO BE CHALLENGED.
It would be entirely fitting that Phill Klline bypassed the law to pursue charges against Dr. Tiller, since Klline apparently does not feel that the law applies to him.
Had he had a solid, non-political/religious case, he would have gone through the proper channels to proceed with a case against Tiller.
By his actions, Klline has proven that his agenda was strictly a personal crusade.
If there were actually evidence of crime, Klline could have/should have used legal means to process a case.
He chose not to, proving his anti-abortion agenda, despite the law.
Good bye, Phill, we are sorry that we knew you.
How the hell are you people going to get proof if Tiller is using attorney’s to block access!
man! you people are ignorant!
Hmmm…what you want to bet that O’Reilly presents an acerbic and scornful report on the goings on here in Wichita, and goes after Nola and Judge Clark?
Maybe Nola Foulston was only seeing that Phill Kline followed the legal procedure to file these charges. If it is true that Kline did not go about this the proper legal route, then the charges would have been dismissed down the road, after much court courts and wasting the court’s time.
With that said, perhaps Kline knew Foulston would get the charges dropped, then he can go on national news (Bill O’Reilly’s show perhaps) and once again blame an ‘activist judge’ for letting a criminal go. It’s a win-win for him.
He has made this circus and he will come out smelling like a rose to his Religious Right crowd.
Once again, JM, send in an undercover pregnant woman with a camera. Duh. It is so easy nowadays. The woman could control the whole conversation. If Tiller really does rush women through with late-term abortions, then catch him in the act.
This would be undeniable proof and no Tiller attorney would even know which pregnant woman was the undercover one.
No thanks to any of the suggestions.
People don’t want to protect women who may have been abused.
I’m done with this blog and Wichita.
JWink, I am very happy you were able to experience Prof. Wilson first hand. Your recollection may be correct, but I have no such memory from Prof. Wilson’s discussions.
A historical footnote (or two): the Supreme Court actually decided four school segregation cases, all under the name of Brown vs. Board of Education; the reason Topeka, Kansas got all the notoriety was because the SCOTUS clerk, when the appeals were consolidated, listed them in alphabetical order, and Brown was first.
While the Brown case was before the Supreme Court, the then-sitting Chief Justice either died or retired; this was in 1953, before the opinion in Brown was released, but after its oral argument. Once Earl Warren was confirmed as Chief Justice, he ordered reargument, with a view towards achieving a unanimous decision, which occurred. I have a memory from some source that if the Court had issued its opinion in 1953, Plessy v. Ferguson would have been upheld, and separate but equal (at least in the area of school segregation) continued; this is likely in the category of rank hearsay, but it is offered FWIW.
JM
are you fixed? Can you promise us that you will never father a child and leave the woman?
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out …
VT - and I remember the “Impeach Earl Warren” billboards that resulted from the decision.
Vaughn:
A KU guy? I didn’t have to pleasure to study under Professor Wilson, but I did work in the criminal defender clinic that bears his name, and have a signed magazine article he wrote on prison conditions.
I commend his book “A Time to Lose” on Brown v. Board. I second everything you wrote.
Rock chalk.
Geez JM,We’re sure going to miss you.Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
please JM move to Utah
one more repuke vote GONE>>>>
YEA
seems to me that the men who protest so much over things such as Ted Haggard and Gays and Kline and abortion have much to hide.
I’d check out the junk in da trunk…
Kline probably has much to hide
JM,
It seems to me you are taking this just a little too personally… You don’t like that people question your statements and ask you for backing when they are providing backing for their own? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. If Kline really wanted to bring charges against Tiller, he should have gone through the correct avenues. It seems, for all appearances, that the reason he did not is because he did not have the evidence to do so, and knew he would not get the backing needed from either the governor or Nola Foulston. But I suppose this is all a “conspiracy theory” that they would simply dismiss it because of who he is. Regardless, as a member of the law, it is Phill Kline’s duty to uphold the law, which he himself failed to do when he did not follow the law to press charges. Further, the timing and method of his charges is also suspect. This reeks of an attempt at publicity, and a chance for a little more “Poor Phill” and mud-slinging on the behalf of our less-than-illustrious Attorney General. The majority of voting Kansans have spoken, and they do not agree with Phill Kline. Perhaps it is time he started listening…
From the far left - JM, in all seriousness, please don’t leave the blog because this thread seems to be against your beliefs.
You and I rarely agree, but all opinions are welcome and I, for one, sincerely hope that you stay.
If you do decide to leave, well, Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and good luck.
From my perspective, left or right, you are always welcome, even if we get to flaming once in a while.
I don’t like abortions and personally I would never recommend one. But this is my personal view. What Tiller is doing is legal in Kansas. Until it can be proven Tiller is violating the law then it is not up to me to want to see the man branded with false charges.
But this whole Phill Kline charging Tiller, and on a Friday. so that O’Reilly will have a field day whipping their sheeple into a foamy frenzy. I suspect this more about Kline’s political future than the actual law.
C’mon back JM,relaxthink outside the boxdon’t take the blog too seriouslysmoke a doob with our resident drug addictsee the light
–the anti-golfnut
Yes, GMC; KU undergrad, Accounting and Business Administration, 1972; JD, 1979, KU law. I had Prof. Wilson for Criminal Law and Criminal Procedure classes my first year (prior to leaving compliments of the draft).
Did you get to experience the Hecker/Lovitch show?
I also commend “A Time to Lose” to anyone interested.
Rock chalk.
Clark and Activist judge Please.
He is the most ethiical man in Wichita.
and people loved the way he handled the Carr brothers case no?
VT
Didn’t have Lovitch; grad in 99 from law, after leaving teaching. Experienced the Heckler/Prater show. Always a hoot.
And yes, Prof. Wilson was quite a gentleman.
“smoke a doob with our resident drug addict”
Leave it to Golfnut to take a heartfelt comment to JM and turn it into an insult.
Par for the course, Nutz?
“and people loved the way he handled the Carr brothers case no?”
Not everyone Pam. I don’t think the brothers liked him.
But this whole Phill Kline charging Tiller, and on a Friday. so that O’Reilly will have a field day whipping their sheeple into a foamy frenzy. I suspect this more about Kline’s political future than the actual law.
BINGO
I didn’t read completely through all the comments so if this has been pointed out before I’m sorry. How you feel about Phil Kline is beside the point. For Tiller with his vast experience as an abortionist to determine a person’s mental health is a stretch for any open mind. Two signatures are necessary for this determinatin and there were always Tiller’s and a doctor employed by him. I guess we can forget about medical specalities anymore. Heart surgeon can do plastic surgeries. Plastic surgeons can you the next triple bypass and of course abortionists can treat your mental health. Does anyone but me see what these 30 cases merit looking at? Two democrates with an elevated view of who they are - Fulston and Sebelius - are subverting justice. Doesn’t surprise me!!
Maybe Kline will be on O’Lielly’s show again …
Not everyone Pam. I don’t think the brothers liked him.Posted by: hmmm … | December 22, 2006 at 03:30 PM
I’m wondering what that’s supposed to mean.From what I know of that case, those boys are lucky to be alive.With the heinous crime(s) they committed. Cops should have filled them with lead when they ran when coming to the apartment or whereever it was they were apprehended.
ksgrm - if there is a second DR then it seems to be according to proceedure. And I definitely do not see the conclusion that now dermatologists can now do brain surgery. Diagnosing depression is allowed by a ‘regular’ DR, not only a psychiatrist. And, has any evidence been presented that Tiller is representing himself as a psychiatrist? I haven’t seen any.
What does it mean KIA? Only that those against whom Clark ruled might not like him. I was being sarcastic.
If that is true about Tiller and another doctor employed by him signing regarding the mental health issue, then can’t that be challenged through the American Medical Association, or perhaps a former Tiller patient could instigate an investigation into that practice?
But the way Phill Kline has chosen to showboat today does not make his side look good. How can anyone take him at as his word if there really is an appropriate concern about Tiller’s practices?
awwww now we are bringing our AWESOME gov in the mix…even tho she had nothing to do with this.
why don’t all you repukes move to UTAH
Mitt Romney would love your vote
Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking you might have been suggesting the brothers had been wronged by the system.
Sensitive issue. One of the victims was my bro in laws college roommate.
After going back to read I had a small addition to add. Kline has been fighting for years to get these records, Tillers lawyers just kept stalling, with time running out and knowing Morrison and Sebelius are firmly in Tiller’s pockets he did the one thing he could do and that was file the charges while still in office hoping this would force Morrison’s hand in putting the case forward. JM don’t let this noisy majority push you out. We need people with your logic so the non-logics won’t break their arms patting themselves on the back.
oh get off it.
Pervert Phill has nothing to go on and this is a personal/religious vendetta
and it sould be over
Abortion is LEGAL so is the Death penalty so is bushy boys war
want to end murder? BRING OUR TROOPS HOME so they won’t get slaughtered for Dick Cheney’s Halliburton
Pam what this is about isn’t that sacred cow, legal abortion. It is about breaking of a law, that late term abortions are illegal UNLESS they threaten the life of the mother. Get over it.
KSGRM - there is no logic to what Klline did - he had to know that taking the action he did was against established law. He also had to know that the case would be tossed because he circumvented procedure. He is supposed to be the top LE official in the State of Kansas, therefore, he is duty bound to FOLLOW the law, even if he doesn’t agree with it.
If Klline wants to make law, he should seek election as a lawmaker. As AG, he has no right to take the law into his own hands.
Period.
His PERSONAL beliefs should never enter into his PROFESSIONAL (term used loosely) actions.
Phill the Pervert was just grandstanding for the anti-choice militia.
you want someone from the inside???
LISTEN closely
20 years ago, I found myself with child and a fiance who I guess couldn’t handle things and he split…
AFter much soul searching I decided to abort because I could not financially handle a child and I did not have any support system
I had to go for counseling BEFORE…signed papers and had to WAIT to make sure I had made a final decision.
On the day, I again spoke to people INSIDE and they could see I was conflicted. They gave me every opportunity to not proceed…they provided me with all kinds of information. In the end, I decided to proceed and the nice people were with me every step of the way.
afterwords, they held me while I cried and even drove me home because I had NO ONE.
I am conflicted every day but would I have done things different? NO
and now I have an awesome husband and 3 wonderful children
Again, if it is true Tiller is not following the law, then take the legal channels to investigate it. Don’t let Phil Kline take it to the Bill O’Reilly show. What does that help - just brings in more money for OR or O’Reilly?
I wonder why anyone hasn’t addressed the issue of”finding that multiple patients’ mental health would be seriously harmed if they did not have abortions”
This would seem like a major crock to me. Like the trauma of an abortion, not to mention of the late term variety, isn’t going to have an adverse affect on one’s mental health.That argument or reasoning makes no sense.
Abortion is a personal thing and nobody has the right to tell anyone else what they can and/or should do. The abortion opponents would get the abortion issue resolved if they would concentrate on prevention of unwanted pregnancies and not just out picketing and chanting.
Do something positive and I don’t believe Phill Kline is the best poster boy you can come up with for honesty and integrity.
see ya all don’t care about the truth because when it is given..it is ignored!
Pervert Phill can go cluck himself
It seems that many of the zealous supporters of Kline are missing the point - he did NOT follow correct LEGAL avenues to file these charges - plain and simple. And whether or not you agree with abortion, it is LEGAL, and it is NOT your place to sit in judgement. I don’t believe in abortion personally, but I also don’t believe I have the right to tell anyone else what they can or can’t do with their bodies either… And if Tiller really is doing illegal late term abortions, then SURELY Kline would have A) filed more than misdemeanor charges and B) followed LEGAL avenues to do so… it is such a blatant attempt at publicity shortly before he leaves office that it is laughable…
I would have preferred that it went through Kansas courts also but he was blind sided at every point. Records kept from him, lengthy legal proceedings to get records that should have been his to look at. Privacy had nothing to do with this issue. The names and other personal markers were all redacted. I know no one is going to change their mind about this issue. Our minds are firmly made up. But I do know women that had abortions right after they first became legal and they live with that reality daily. Unfortunately they are not as well adjusted to the loss as ‘leave my body alone’ seems to be.
it was just grandstanding and pervert phill has shot his wad.
wonder how many women he knocked up?
guys like he and Ted Haggard always leave a mess behind…
me thinks they doth protest too much
ABORTION IS ON ONES BUSINESS BUT THOSE WHO HAVE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE
GET OVER IT
“Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking you might have been suggesting the brothers had been wronged by the system.”
Definitely NOT! In fact, I think hanging would be too good for them.
hummm…no comments to the way things were handled with me and my experience?
I thought tiller shoved women through like cattle? Unless you know then shut the frik up!!!
Wendy has the point dead on, no matter what you position is on abortion.
and I won’t step into that minefield.
yup
Sooo…Pam has decided that because some men are irresponsible, then all men are pigs?
I suppose I could use the same “logic” that some women are prostitutes…..want to go to the “logical” conclusion on that one, Pam?
Merry Christmas to you, too. Sure glad I don’t have to come home to you….
Leave - from what I can tell you were carefully helped during a very difficult time. I cannot fault anyone involved - except perhaps the fiance - in your decision. I hope that you have healed and that your family is well.
raptor
you just proved my point!!!!
Merry christmas to you too
leave your pants zipped okay??? we don’t want you to propagate umkay???
I posted not to garner sympathy but to prove the point that Tiller does not treat women like cattle, but provides a caring service to women in their worst time
I was not a pro-life person until the summer of Operation Rescue. No, I didn’t nor have I ever walked in a protest. I saw an interview with the first couple to cross the line for the termination of a 6 month pregancy. THey were on the Phil Donahue show. The reason they opted for the abortion was because they had two children and the third was an accident. They had decided to divorce and this third child was just a complication they didn’t need. To see a child reduced to this decided it for me. Just a divorce complication.
that was one instance
so how many children do you adopt and or support now?
My hubby and I have 3 of our own children PLUS we provide foster care.
I also provide safety to women who choose to have an abortion
I understand where we are as a nation in the abortion argument. I’ve said before to think the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade is going to solve the problem is fantasy. It’s persons hearts however that need to be changed.That being said, this late term business is just gross. At 6 months you are talking a baby at 24-27 weeks. I have young children so obviously, people will small kids are my peer group. Right now we have 3 different couple friends or co-workers who have children that were born in the 23rd week and survived and developed just fine and are as “normal” as any children their age.Because of this experience I can’t see these late terms as anything but murder.
I admire you for that. I have raised my three sons and also a son we took in at the age of 8 because his mother didn’t want him. I am a grandmother now and physically disabled and unable to mother children but I do provide food, clothing and shelter (we help them get an apartment and furnish it for them) on a regular basis for women who choose to have their babies.
We need more people like you who are able to do what you do. I would never discriminate against someone because they choose abortion but I would hope I could help them before that was necessary.
I proved your point? Sorry…I did nothing of the kind. Your mass generalization of the entire male gender based on example of a few is illogical, untrue, has no basis in fact and is ridiculous to the extreme.
I could use your “logic” and say that since a recent robbery suspect was driving a Chrysler, then all people driving Chryslers must be thieves.
Nope..sorry. I did not prove your ‘point’ in any way, shape or form. Your simplistic illogical statements make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Raptor
oh yea you did prove my point and continue to do so
LEave, you are making your logical, well thought out decision become suspect.
not trying to do anything but share my experience to prove that Tiller does not operate a “cattle drive”
and I suspect that many of these bloggers really don’t have a clue as to the thought process it takes to go through what I did.
It was not a spur of the moment convience sort of thing like so many people stereo type it.
I is a deep personal decision and guys like that above really have NO clue and as long as their little world isn’t messed up, they don’t want to know the truth!
oh and yea, I still get pissed about it and the “man” that caused it!!!
My husband is awesome and was very understanding about the whole situation and helped me see that i was not a monster.
One can tell what type of man is supportive and not.
I learned the hard way
Something that I will never understand…why is it that a PERSONAL MEDICAL procedure between a woman and her doctor should be an issue at all? A majority of legislators are middle aged men…and they have absolutely no business telling a woman and her doctor what to do.
My 2 cents worth.
You are oversimplfying it for starters.It’s not a flu shot.
Like it or not there is a third person in that room. The unborn child. It is a fact many people want to overlook but a fact none the less.
I don’t think abortion is a two-sided issue. I am one of those in the middle. I am not for abortion on demand but I do feel there are circumstances that warrant an abortion.
But the two sides who are constantly fighting will NEVER agree on anything. So why in this country are there so many kids needing adoption? Why do we have one side protesting that life is sacred but yet won’t lift one finger to help a child in need?
Why are abortion supporters so adamant about their viewpoint? Is it because they like to kill babies? I don’t think so. this issue is more complicated than that.
The country, as a whole, do not value the children we have already. Until we Americans start taking care of the children and making everyone safe from abuse, then abortion will continue to be the dividing issue it has always been.
Lucee, you are preaching to the choir. I feel that abortion takes a life. I also work hard to help children who need it. I help pregnant girls who need it. Many of my colleagues do the same. We aren’t the ones telling the others they should be doing more we are doing it. I think you should look at the statistics of who donates the most to worthy social causes. The statistics show overwhelmingly that the left give only a small fraction of what the right gives. Some do and others talk about it.
THE LEFT give a lot more than you know…they just don’t make a public showing
this issue is not a left/right issue
Something that I will never understand…why is it that a PERSONAL MEDICAL procedure between a woman and her doctor should be an issue at all? A majority of legislators are middle aged men…and they have absolutely no business telling a woman and her doctor what to do.
My 2 cents worth.
Posted by: raptor |
sorry I misjudged you
You just can’t make stuff like this up. What a fiasco. I cannot believe I pay this man’s salary.
Right on ksgrm: Its about time somebody set these people straight. I get so sick and tired of hearing from the “keep those babies dying crowd” how prolifers only care about the unborn. As far as who gives more, left or right, all you have to do is remember back a few years ago when somebody got a hold of Clinton and Gores tax returns. Their charitable giving was pathetic. I don’t think it totaled 500.00$ between the two of them. Clinton even wrote off some old underwear and other clothing items he gave away as charitable deductions. And don’t try to tell me prochoicers give quietly and don’t take it as tax deducts. The lefts idea of giving is for the government to take it from working people and give it to the poor.
we don’t anymore…
now he is JO Co’s responsibility
oh a so thoughtful post from Mac and cheese.
nothing was ever said about Clinton in this thread
but now that he is in>>>
did you know there are more abortions performed now under bush’s reign than there where when Clinton was President
no comment???
must be because this economy continues to suck and people can not afford anything
Pam what are you trying to say? I must have missed your message. The economy is better that it has been in years. The rate (4.7%)of unemployment is so low that it is considered full employment by economists. What this means is that everyone that wants to is working. I guess I should wait to celebrate that one though because if the minimum wage rate goes up $2 an hour the unemployment numbers will rise like a helium ballon. You learn that in economics 101 also. Business will lay off those least productive workers in order to pay this inflated rate. There go the jobs for seniors and young workers.
not going to respond to the RW talking points memos
but if you are interested..google
abortion rates under Clinton and Bush.
they are lower under clinton.
that means not as many…
reasons???
Chris, I’ve given to many things and I have never ever filed it on a tax return.
But I have no doubt that republicons make sure they get that tax deduction to the penny.
I’m sick of the ‘give birth at any cost, treating women like incubators’ crowd. I’ll bet the tragedy of that girl in Hutch who dumped her baby escapes you. And I’ll bet you think she needs punished.
Notice what Phill Kline did NOT press charges for? He didn’t press charges for not reporting suspected abuse of children. Just the fact that he didn’t like the reason- which is still perfectly legal for a mental health exception!
Two words for Bush fan(atics) - Robin Lowman.
perhaps you haven’t been paying attention grm. Those jobs, all low wage jobs. MORE working poor, more poverty, more desperation.
Less sex education, more drug abuse. The only people this economy is great for are the rich and Chinese.
I was appalled when I heard just now on national news that those 15 cases that were prosecuted for abortions after 6 months were for women??? 10 to 22. Who is looking out for these children? Yes Kansas is once again in the national news. This time not for our state board of educations decision to have an alternative to evolution presented to our school children but because we are one of only 2 states (California is the other) in the nation who have doctors who preform late term abortions.
If the Religious Righties (who are mostly pro-life) actually were taking care of others in our country, then we would not have any homeless people and all the states would have each and every child needing a loving home, would be able to place them.
As I see it, at Tiller’s clinic, the best way to reduce abortions is that the protesters line up and take each woman entering the clinic and offer to take their baby and raise it. When you do that, then maybe abortions will not be needed.
This never was a debate about Clinton or Gore and how much money they donated to charity.
And grm, you think it’s a good idea that a 10 year old has a baby? Regardless of Tiller’s invovlement, that 10 year old would have still been pregnant anyway.
I can’t even imagine.
What national news was that on?
So, lets go after the 10 yr old’s doctor that first diagnosed her as pregnant. Why not go after her parents at that time? Why just pick to go after Tiller? There are many avenues to catch these child rapists - not just Tiller.
I saw the PDF on Witchita’s front page. Lot of young’uns given abortions. Ten year old, fifteen year old.
Kline says a woman’s mental health is a technicality? Only a reich-wing fundy would argue that women don’t have brains therefore it can’t be used as a health reason. Maybe the women he hangs around with.
Thankfully two women with brains, Sebelius and Foulston, stood up to this fascist and threw his little jihad out of court.
Of course it’d be faux news!
Yeah these people act as if Tiller actually impregnated these girls when all he did is help them.
I’m just so sick of Tiller being demonized. The man could give up and go do something far more easy, go on to get rich. But he knows the stories of these women, and knows how important his service is to them.
Doug have you updated your page yet?
I’d love to see what you’ve written about it.
Lucee maybe the righties should just handle the homeless problem the way the lefties handle the unborn problem. Just line them up and shoot them. Problems gone!! By the way I am not blaming the 10 year old pregnant girl on Tiller but what are we doing as a society to stop this. By offering them an easy out at an abortion clinic we let the real culprit go and the 10 year old with her problem will be swept under the same rug she was in when her problem was discovered.
Political Mom, I just got back from work so the entire events have gone rather quickly. I did get a call early in the morning for some advice of some PI stuff but didn’t know what it was connected to, apparently this was the matter. However the situation has resolved itself. The only issue now is if Phill Kline’s license to practice law can be revoked for abuse of power. Any attorney who uses his position to file unnecessary or harassing lawsuits can be disbarred. Given Kline’s history of unethical behavior and this latest action it is in the realm of possibility. Morrison won’t do it because he’ll be accused of playing politics. However a judge can take action if he finds it necessary.
Then again since Kline won’t win a re-election as DA perhaps nobody will pay it any mind.
ksgrm, I hope to GOD that girl is getting some help for whatever reason, a 10 year old should never be pregnant in the first place. But it tells me that the girl was either already being investigated or Tiller reported it, because there were no charges filed against him for not reporting it.
I’m just so sick of these kids being in families where their lives suck so bad, and nobody does anything about it.
if we are lucky, pervert phill will just go away
JM WAIT!
Take germie with ya!
Junior what do you fear from someone having a position differing from yours. Are you so sure you are always right or do you doubt that you are ever right.
Pmom my impression was that this information came from that batch of records that were finally submitted.
If I am wrong I will be glad to admit it. We have to do something to remove these children from these environments.
Oh spare me germie.
JM is a grown man older than me. Supposedly he is a veteran. And he wants to get all pissy because his is a kook minority opinion on a blog? Hey that aint about me being right or wrong. That’s about him. Good riddance.
And no it would not hurt my feelings a bit if you joined him. About time Kansas was taken back from the fringe right.
JR most people who know me would consider me a moderate. How would your friends rate you? Just wondering.
I am not a lefty, I am a RADICAL.
Whoops, GRM wasn’t talking to me!
Sorry, my bad.
You do not strike ME as a moderate.
The opinion of the blog or my friends would be that I am ultra liberal. This is the only sensible position. It brings balance. I am a reformed conservative. The conservatives have invalidated conservatism for all but the rich or righteous few. And there are not many who fit that niche. Most people just don’t know it. Were it not so, I too would be more moderate.
JM,”Ever hear of the woman who was rushed through the ‘late term abortion’ in Tiller’s clinic with no more explanation than “sign here, sit here and pay us this much.”"
I’ve heard about a lot of mythical women who went to Tiller. When I’ve tried to check out those stories that had enough detail to check on, they all turned out to be patently fictional. The anti’s propaganda machine has been working so much overtime that it’s gotten sloppy!I do know that when I took my daughter to Tiller after her rape, he was nothing but kind and patient, and went through all the alternatives with her before agreeing to do her abortion.
Women and girls who have abortions are all gonna burn in hell! Especially those women who have abortions who believe that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour!!!
That goes double for gays,lesbians, transgenders, all types of queers and hippies!
Statement issued late today by Attorney General’s Office
Yesterday, December 21, 2006, at 4:37 pm, the Office of Attorney General filed criminal charges against Dr. George Tiller of Wichita , Kansas . Mr. Tiller’s attorneys first made the charges public when they held a news conference in Wichita at 11:15 am today, Friday, December 22, 2006.At 1:00 pm I was notified by the District Attorney of the 18th Judicial District that she had filed a motion and sought and obtained a hearing without notification of this office to dismiss the charges. That motion was granted. To my knowledge there was not any attempt to notify myself or this office of this motion nor its consideration by the District Attorney or the Court.
Immediately, this Office initiated efforts to contact the judge to move for reconsideration. I responded to the District Attorney within 15 minutes asking for copies of her filings. They were forwarded to me within the next hour. Our efforts to contact judges to file our motion for reconsideration were unsuccessful and we were unable to file the motion in person on Friday afternoon due to the inability to locate a judge.As a basis for her motion the District Attorney cited Kansas statues that require the Attorney General to file certain actions when directed to do so by the Governor or either branch of the Kansas legislature. KSA 75-702 and 704. The District Attorney then argues that the Attorney General does not have inherent power to file charges other than those articulated in those statutes. This argument is flawed. As Attorney General I have initiated hundreds of filings without the permission of the legislature or the Governor and consistent with my common law and statutory authority of the office. The statutes provided by the District Attorney are simply requirements to file in certain instances; not prohibitions.Based on her flawed legal reasoning the District Attorney argued, without our participation, that this Office could not file charges without her consent.KSA 22-3103 provides that if inquisition evidence and testimony “discloses probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed…the attorney general…may file such testimony, together with his complaint or information…against the person or persons … and a warrant shall there upon be issued for the arrest of such person … as in other criminal cases.”This authority is consistent with the broad constitutional, statutory and common law authority of the Office of Attorney General.Similarly, K.S.A. 22?3201, a statute of basic criminal procedure, provides that “prosecutions in the district court shall be upon complaint, indictment or information” (K.S.A. 22-3201(a)) and that such information may “be signed by the county attorney, the attorney general or any legally appointed assistant or deputy of either.” K.S.A. 22-3201(b).K.S.A. 22-2202(17) defines “Prosecuting attorney” to mean “any attorney who is authorized by law to appear for and on behalf of the state of Kansas in a criminal case, and includes the attorney general, an assistant attorney general, the county or district attorney, an assistant county or district attorney and any special prosecutor whose appearance is approved by the court.”“The attorney general is the chief law enforcement officer of the state. State ex rel. v. Rohleder, 208 Kan. 193, 194, 490 P.2d 374 (1971).As a courtesy to the District Attorney I initiated efforts yesterday early afternoon to meet with her to consult regarding this filing and prior to filing this case. I, Mr. Eric Rucker, my Chief Deputy and Mr. Steve Maxwell, Assistant Attorney General, signed into Ms. Foulston’s office yesterday afternoon at approximately 3:30 pm. I met with the District Attorney for approximately 1 hour and she acknowledged the jurisdiction of this office and indicated that she would not object to the filing. The case was filed at 4:37 pm.The charges brought are the result of a multi-year investigation involving the review of thousands of pages of documents, numerous sworn statements and testimony by witnesses and expert review of records and documents. The investigation was delayed for a little over two years by the Kansas Supreme Court and this office only received the relevant medical records from Mr. Tiller’s clinic on October 24, 2006.The District Attorney, without notification to this office nor the opportunity to be heard has approached a judge not familiar with the evidence and obtained a dismissal. We will seek an emergency reconsideration of this decision.The District Court judge overseeing this investigation has found probable cause to believe that crimes have been committed and that evidence of the crimes is found in the medical records. Now, a Sedgwick County District Court Judge found probable cause to believe that Dr. Tiller committed those crimes listed in the complaint. The District Attorney has sought to dismiss a case in which two courts have found probable cause to believe that crimes have been committed.This office, as long as I am Attorney General, will endeavor to abide by its oath to enforce the laws of the State of Kansas . When evidence of crimes is presented, we shall investigate and when such evidence rises to the legal standard to support criminal charges, we will prosecute.Dr. Tiller is presumed innocent by law and the allegations within the complaint are mere allegations. The complaint is now public due the news conference of Mr. Tiller’s attorneys and the following provides a summary of Kansas law and the complaint.Summary of Complaint/InformationA. The Law Protects Patients from Legal JeopardyKansas law does not place the women or children who seek abortion under any criminal or legal jeopardy. Kansas law specifically states that the patient cannot be guilty of any crime and that the law’s prohibitions only apply to the doctor who performs the abortion or who causes the abortion to be performed.B. The Identity of the Patients is ProtectedAttorney General Phill Kline does not desire the identity of the women who have had abortions and will file motions as this case proceeds to protect the identity of all patients requesting that their identity not be revealed in any fashion in any public documents or open court.C. Statement by the Attorney GeneralStatement by Attorney General Kline: “The complaint speaks for itself, the identity of the patients will not be sought or revealed by my Office. These are accusations and Mr. Tiller is presumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law. The investigation is ongoing.”D. The LawKansas law restricts post viability abortion unless two doctors find either: a) the mother’s life is in jeopardy if the abortion is not performed; or b) “a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.” KSA 65-6703(a)(2).The law requires this finding to be made by the physician performing the abortion and that the physician performing the abortion also have “a documented referral from another physician not legally affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion” that also finds that “a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial or irreversible impairment of a major bodily function.” KSA 65-6703(a).Kansas law requires that the medical facility in which the abortion is performed and the physician performing or inducing the abortion to report the reasons and basis for the determination that “a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the women” to the Kansas Department of Health and Environment.Violating any of the provisions of this act is a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail, a $2,500 fine or both. Although the late-term abortion statute states that “upon a second or subsequent offense†for violation of this statute that the person is guilty of a severity level 10, non-person felony;” Kansas Supreme Court case law has interpreted such provisions to require a previous conviction before a person can be charged with a felony. (KSA 65-6703(g); State v. Bandy, 25 Kan. App. 2nd 1096 (1998) rev. denied (1999)). The penalty for a Class 10 non-person felony is presumptive probation.Kansas law also provides that performing a criminal late-term abortion may be a basis to revoke a person’s license to practice medicine. KSA 65-2836. Furthermore, KSA 65-2837(b)(5) defines unprofessional conduct for a medical professional as including assisting, performing or inducing a criminal abortion.E. The ComplaintThe complaint is comprised of 30 counts of alleged violations of Kansas abortion laws, KSA 65-6703.F. Summary of Allegations in the Public Records Found in theComplaint/InformationThe patients range in age from 10-22 years of age. The gestational ages of the fetuses range from 25 weeks to 31 weeks.In every instance the life of the mother was not in jeopardy.In every instance a mental health diagnosis was provided by the referring physician and the defendant as the justification for the late term abortion except in one case where no diagnosis was provided.In nine cases the pregnant woman or child was diagnosed as having “Major Depressive Disorder, Single Episode.”In four cases the pregnant woman or child was diagnosed as having “Acute Stress Disorder.”In two cases, two different diagnoses were reached. In one of these cases one diagnosis was “Acute Stress Disorder” and the other was “Anxiety Disorder.” In the other case the two differing diagnoses were “Anxiety Disorder” and “Adjustment Disorder.”In three cases, it is alleged that the clinic reported to KDHE that the fetus was not viable when the defendant’s medical records indicate that the fetus was viable.In all cases, it is alleged that the defendant failed to report the basis or reasons for the late term abortion pursuant to Kansas law.G. Statute of LimitationsThe subpoenas for the records were originally issued in September 2004. The Kansas Supreme Court first accepted jurisdiction in this case on October of 2004. At the time the Court accepted jurisdiction it effectively stayed this investigation pending its decision. The Court did not render a decision until February of 2006. The documents were provided to investigators in the Office of Attorney General on October 24, 2006, effectively providing a two year delay in the investigation.Kansas law originally provided a two-year statute of limitations for prosecuting criminal late-term abortions. This means that a criminal complaint charging such a crime would have to be filed within two years of the act or the state would be prohibited from prosecuting the crime.The Kansas legislature and Governor, however, extended the statute of limitations for such crimes to 5 years effective on July 1, 2005. This means that the new five year statute of limitations applies to all alleged criminal activity where the previous two-year time limit had not run at the time the new law became effective. In other words, the statute had already expired for all activity on or prior to June 30, 2003 prior to the effective date of the new law and, therefore, the previous two year statute of limitations applied and those actions are now barred. For any activity, however, where the old statute of limitations had not run (activity on or after July 1, 2003) the new five-year statute of limitations applies and those actions can be initiated anytime prior to July 1, 2008.By the time the investigators for the Attorney General’s office obtained the files on October 24, 2006, twenty-eight of the files subpoenaed by the Court in September 2004 relating to this defendant had expired under the statute of limitations on any alleged criminal activity.The Complaint contains allegations and Dr. Tiller is presumed innocent by law.
Although many want to turn this into a broad-based debate on abortion the fact is that this is a legal case. A judge has ruled that Kline over-stepp